Yep, it's gonna be KOTOR3: Online.

Doesn't even sound like there'll be a need for crafting or an AH at this rate...

 I love how people make statements about a game we know nothing about. 

Thanks for keeping us up to date.

The one BIG question mark, and so far the only serious concern I have is this: how can a MMO be so much story driven and still succeed in making people cooperate. So far I hear a lot how you as a single player are hero of a story, fine. But I hear not two class stories cross, so how are people ever supposed to work together on a shared goal, as in the usual quests, when everything you decide and experience is so exclusive? Doesnt the need to cooperate the inclusion of trivial standard quests a necessity? Somehow it starts to sound like a single player game with an online longe to meet and talk, and that would really spooky.

This part of "having no day to day stuff" or what seriously concerns me tbh. How can any player take part in a MMO, which is supposed to have players busy at least for many months, if not years, and still be always heroic and story driven? Even with dozens of writers, the usual amount of daily hours of an average MMO geek will EASILY surpass ANY heroic content they can create, let alone unique for every class!

I kinda hope this is more RP blah blah, and in the end we will have the level of story-driven we have seen in AoC's Tortage area, the first 20 levels, where you have some personal parts but by and large a normal MMO. I really would be let down if I subscribe to an MMO and everyone is vanished in instances of single player heroic stories. We'll have to see.

Originally posted by Yunbei

Thanks for keeping us up to date.

The one BIG question mark, and so far the only serious concern I have is this: how can a MMO be so much story driven and still succeed in making people cooperate. So far I hear a lot how you as a single player are hero of a story, fine. But I hear not two class stories cross, so how are people ever supposed to work together on a shared goal, as in the usual quests, when everything you decide and experience is so exclusive? Doesnt the need to cooperate the inclusion of trivial standard quests a necessity? Somehow it starts to sound like a single player game with an online longe to meet and talk, and that would really spooky.

This part of "having no day to day stuff" or what seriously concerns me tbh. How can any player take part in a MMO, which is supposed to have players busy at least for many months, if not years, and still be always heroic and story driven? Even with dozens of writers, the usual amount of daily hours of an average MMO geek will EASILY surpass ANY heroic content they can create, let alone unique for every class!

I kinda hope this is more RP blah blah, and in the end we will have the level of story-driven we have seen in AoC's Tortage area, the first 20 levels, where you have some personal parts but by and large a normal MMO. I really would be let down if I subscribe to an MMO and everyone is vanished in instances of single player heroic stories. We'll have to see.

I think you might be reading too much into the not having day to day stuff... Basically, I think that was their way of saying there won`t be aan emphasis on those kinds of things.

As to your point on the single playerness of it: Well, I don`t think that the personal storylines are going to be the whole of the game. They probably make up a fraction of it. If BioWare is smart, they`re going to give players plenty to do together and with luck, helping other players complete their personal quests will be rewarding for other party members as well. We`ll have to wait and see, but I don`t think that you`re going to have to worry about a lack of socialization. There would have been no reason to do an MMO version otherwsie.

Originally posted by Stradden

Originally posted by Yunbei

Thanks for keeping us up to date.

The one BIG question mark, and so far the only serious concern I have is this: how can a MMO be so much story driven and still succeed in making people cooperate. So far I hear a lot how you as a single player are hero of a story, fine. But I hear not two class stories cross, so how are people ever supposed to work together on a shared goal, as in the usual quests, when everything you decide and experience is so exclusive? Doesnt the need to cooperate the inclusion of trivial standard quests a necessity? Somehow it starts to sound like a single player game with an online longe to meet and talk, and that would really spooky.

This part of "having no day to day stuff" or what seriously concerns me tbh. How can any player take part in a MMO, which is supposed to have players busy at least for many months, if not years, and still be always heroic and story driven? Even with dozens of writers, the usual amount of daily hours of an average MMO geek will EASILY surpass ANY heroic content they can create, let alone unique for every class!

I kinda hope this is more RP blah blah, and in the end we will have the level of story-driven we have seen in AoC's Tortage area, the first 20 levels, where you have some personal parts but by and large a normal MMO. I really would be let down if I subscribe to an MMO and everyone is vanished in instances of single player heroic stories. We'll have to see.

 

I think you might be reading too much into the not having day to day stuff... Basically, I think that was their way of saying there won`t be aan emphasis on those kinds of things.

As to your point on the single playerness of it: Well, I don`t think that the personal storylines are going to be the whole of the game. They probably make up a fraction of it. If BioWare is smart, they`re going to give players plenty to do together and with luck, helping other players complete their personal quests will be rewarding for other party members as well. We`ll have to wait and see, but I don`t think that you`re going to have to worry about a lack of socialization. There would have been no reason to do an MMO version otherwsie.

Good points! Rationally I feel you are right. This story uniqueness talk just freaked me out a little, heh.

Originally posted by Yunbei

Thanks for keeping us up to date.

The one BIG question mark, and so far the only serious concern I have is this: how can a MMO be so much story driven and still succeed in making people cooperate. So far I hear a lot how you as a single player are hero of a story, fine. But I hear not two class stories cross, so how are people ever supposed to work together on a shared goal, as in the usual quests, when everything you decide and experience is so exclusive? Doesnt the need to cooperate the inclusion of trivial standard quests a necessity? Somehow it starts to sound like a single player game with an online longe to meet and talk, and that would really spooky.

This part of "having no day to day stuff" or what seriously concerns me tbh. How can any player take part in a MMO, which is supposed to have players busy at least for many months, if not years, and still be always heroic and story driven? Even with dozens of writers, the usual amount of daily hours of an average MMO geek will EASILY surpass ANY heroic content they can create, let alone unique for every class!

I kinda hope this is more RP blah blah, and in the end we will have the level of story-driven we have seen in AoC's Tortage area, the first 20 levels, where you have some personal parts but by and large a normal MMO. I really would be let down if I subscribe to an MMO and everyone is vanished in instances of single player heroic stories. We'll have to see.

Lotro has made story driven a huge success,perhaps a similar system may be incorporated here .. just guessing tho..

Too bad the art-style isn't even Starwasy. This game might as well have been a single player game, because it most certainly has nothing Star Wars oriented about it based on everything we've been told and can see with our eyes ^.

I have a feeling that the story driven parts they are talking about are going to be like Conan where you can do those things alone but also have alot of others stuff you can do with friends. I for one cannot wait to see this game. I played SWG but soon found that there was nothing to do after a while and the nerfs just ruined it for me

Oh,,, I dont know if I gonna scream of joy or fear. Love Bioware as developer, love the KotOR IP, but I dont know if it would be best to leave KotOR as a singelplayer game or if it will kick ass as an MMO. Well time will tell I guess.

Well tbh I'm kinda sceptical but I'll wait till open beta to see!

Originally posted by Bolthorn

I have a feeling that the story driven parts they are talking about are going to be like Conan where you can do those things alone but also have alot of others stuff you can do with friends. I for one cannot wait to see this game. I played SWG but soon found that there was nothing to do after a while and the nerfs just ruined it for me

As I was saying the way they have done the Story mode in Lotro is brilliant... you dont have to do it if you dont want to you can go through the game anyway you want really. But doing the storyline adds so much more to the game experience imo. I think you may be right tho .. but in AoC the choices you make in the story mode dont really make any difference.

So if Bioware can pul it off where your choices do make a huge difference it could be awesome. They might need to find a balance though because alot of players probably wont want to be tied to the story line so it could be a difficult balance to get right .

Hopefully the story dont evolve around another killing of 50 boars to get 10 ears, but include betrayer quest ....

Originally posted by tysonj25

 I love how people make statements about a game we know nothing about. 

Yes, especially when they're teary-eyed SWG vets. It just makes my day.

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Too bad the art-style isn't even Starwasy. This game might as well have been a single player game, because it most certainly has nothing Star Wars oriented about it based on everything we've been told and can see with our eyes ^.

Ya know, I think the thread that you created about this exact same topic is probably sufficient for your views on this. There's no need to repeat it in every thread.

You aren't too interested in the game. That's cool, but please don't continue to spam the same info over and ver again all over these forums.

In their interview, Muzyka says that, “It’s not a day-in-the-life of Star Wars”. Instead, he tells them that it’s about being a hero. Obviously, this puts a damper on players who may have been hoping to spend their time strictly as an entertainer or moisture farmer.

This was one of the most encouraging things they could have said about this MMORPG. This is Star Wars. It’s not about owning a shop or growing crops. It’s about fighting for the fate of the galaxy.

Bioware gets this and I expect they’ll focus first on making a fun game rather then following the insipid design choices of the SOE developers.  A wonderful, player-interdependent crafting system doesn’t help when you ignore balance and gameplay design problems.   Star Wars isn’t a story about musicians.    I'm looking forward to seeing a company who finally understands that produce a real Star Wars MMORPG.
 

I'm actually pretty excited about this. The trick is not to hope for another SWG because that isn't going to happen, rather just hope for a good Star Wars game. From what I've read Bio Ware has done well with their KOTOR line so it's not unreasonable to think that they could make a game that is fun to play in a world that is fun to be in.

Thanks for all the new tidbits, I'll be looking forward to more.

Thanks for the update.

Few others points I read here and there:

• There will be crafting but you won't craft shoes
• Ships will be customizable
• Regarding pre-alpha pics: lightsabers will get smaller but not too much
• Can only have one compagnion at a time with you
• Could have special achievements for not having (using?) compagnions
• Character customisation = sliders (many?) with 3 positions only
• Korriban starting planet for Sith

The Good:

I love a good Star Wars story and being able to develop a character in a virtual Star Wars world with other fans sounds awesome.

The Bad:

Judging by the screen shots, the graphics look closer to The Clone Wars animated movie rather than more realistic graphics, like SWG strived for. The lightsaber in that one Jedi's hand looked like he was holding a spray paint can, it was huge, quite contrary to the elegant weapon the lightsaber is. While I liked KoToR, I prefer controlling only one character.

I can't wait t hear more about the game mechanics, what there is to do other than questing, and abuot what classes will be offered at release.

WoW.... don't we already have a multitude of MMO's that play you out to be the hero, and even one now after several updates.... that already has a SW flavor?  Well the wait is over, maybe you'll have a SW MMO to play that may carry with it a better story and less bugs, but once again will be nothing different and won't be what most were expecting.

I know it wasn't what I was hoping for, but I am sure there are many who will gobble this one up just like WoW.

Originally posted by Alienovrlord

In their interview, Muzyka says that, “It’s not a day-in-the-life of Star Wars”. Instead, he tells them that it’s about being a hero. Obviously, this puts a damper on players who may have been hoping to spend their time strictly as an entertainer or moisture farmer.

This was one of the most encouraging things they could have said about this MMORPG. This is Star Wars. It’s not about owning a shop or growing crops. It’s about fighting for the fate of the galaxy.

Bioware gets this and I expect they’ll focus first on making a fun game rather then following the insipid design choices of the SOE developers.  A wonderful, player-interdependent crafting system doesn’t help when you ignore balance and gameplay design problems.   Star Wars isn’t a story about musicians.    I'm looking forward to seeing a company who finally understands that produce a real Star Wars MMORPG.
 

I am surprised, a post in this thread that I completely identify with. Too bad many of the hardcore SWG-style sandbox advocates will just read; "I want a wow clone with no depth and a level based progression system, which is bad.. mmkay..." when they see your post.

this looks like it's gonna be yet another game clone, a "quest-based" game on rails, a-la WoW.

Where's the freedom of SWG?  the sandboxing???

Jedi fest?  what's this? A glowstick dance party?

lame, very lame

For the follow up. Here are the main concerns / most replied thread so far on the main web site.

1. Don't make Jedi a starting profession
2. Who plans not to start off as a Jedi
3. Crafter based economy! Please
4. Realistic Graphics (let your voice be heard)
5. Join date 10.21.2008
6. Fix Lightsabers

I was pretty sure Jedi and Crafting would be are in the top. Still the graphics are a suprize, for the less...

However it's strange compagnions aren't also high, I mean for an MMO.

Hmm. Well I hope it's not a Hub-based game like DDO and GW. As long as it has wide open areas, multiple cities/planets to travel to and the interactive instances that the Hero Engine supposedly excels at, I think this game might be fun. I'm a big fan of the KOTOR games. I look forward to hearing more.

Originally posted by just_because

this looks like it's gonna be yet another game clone, a "quest-based" game on rails, a-la WoW.

 

Where's the freedom of SWG?  the sandboxing???

 

Jedi fest?  what's this? A glowstick dance party?

 

lame, very lame

And yet an other SWG cry-baby manages to completely ignore the time period differences between SWTOR and SWG, well done!

Originally posted by Hrothmund

Originally posted by Alienovrlord

In their interview, Muzyka says that, “It’s not a day-in-the-life of Star Wars”. Instead, he tells them that it’s about being a hero. Obviously, this puts a damper on players who may have been hoping to spend their time strictly as an entertainer or moisture farmer.

This was one of the most encouraging things they could have said about this MMORPG. This is Star Wars. It’s not about owning a shop or growing crops. It’s about fighting for the fate of the galaxy.

Bioware gets this and I expect they’ll focus first on making a fun game rather then following the insipid design choices of the SOE developers.  A wonderful, player-interdependent crafting system doesn’t help when you ignore balance and gameplay design problems.   Star Wars isn’t a story about musicians.    I'm looking forward to seeing a company who finally understands that produce a real Star Wars MMORPG.
 

 

I am surprised, a post in this thread that I completely identify with. Too bad many of the hardcore SWG-style sandbox advocates will just read; "I want a wow clone with no depth and a level based progression system, which is bad.. mmkay..." when they see your post.

I somewhat agree with the both of you, but I think Star Wars is more than that.  It's not just about fighting for the fate of the galaxy (even though that's the major premise on the outside), it's also how someone rise to become the hero (not mentioning the prequels, in ep. 4 - 6, you see the journey of a young farmer rise to become the champion of the Republic, the hero, in Luke).

I'm waiting and see if Bioware can pull it off to have both the journey to become the hero, and the fighting for the fate of galaxy in the same game, since I have not seen it in any other games.

Well this is a bit of a dissapointment.... After reading this and seeing the graphics I'll pass...

The beauty of SWG was that you could be both the farmer and hero. The options were great and opens up to a much larger  market. Franky a sandbox with options is overdue ( I am tired of  "forced" guided tours)but I guess we have to settle for what we can get. Hopefully as some have said, the graphics arent "clone wars style" because that would be a step in the wrong direction.

Originally posted by courtsdad

The beauty of SWG was that you could be both the farmer and hero. The options were great and opens up to a much larger  market.

Sandbox environment and freedom of choice is synonymous to a larger player demographic? I don't think so. The publishers have to cater to the masses, and most probably that is what they will do with SWTOR.

Originally posted by Hrothmund

Originally posted by courtsdad

The beauty of SWG was that you could be both the farmer and hero. The options were great and opens up to a much larger  market.

 

Sandbox environment and freedom of choice is synonymous to a larger player demographic? I don't think so. The publishers have to cater to the masses, and most probably that is what they will do with SWTOR.

I completely understand that sandbox may not be the masses choice nor the big money pot that the software companies would like it to be, But why make another MMO that does nothing but feed you lines out of a story and lead you around by the nose? I mean go make a movie or another single player game,

i just cant wait

Originally posted by Balkin31

Originally posted by Hrothmund

Originally posted by courtsdad

The beauty of SWG was that you could be both the farmer and hero. The options were great and opens up to a much larger  market.

 

Sandbox environment and freedom of choice is synonymous to a larger player demographic? I don't think so. The publishers have to cater to the masses, and most probably that is what they will do with SWTOR.

 

I completely understand that sandbox may not be the masses choice nor the big money pot that the software companies would like it to be, But why make another MMO that does nothing but feed you lines out of a story and lead you around by the nose? I mean go make a movie or another single player game,

If it looks good in a powerpoint presentation to the financial director, it will be greenlighted, that is why.

Let's take a look at a typical situation:

First, there is a trend-setting product that is extremely successful. After this, a wave of carbon-paper copies appears and the owners of the original product start noy only to cash in but also to keep up with the competition with accessories, newer versions of the product and by lowering the price of the original product.

What ensues is either that the original product remains dominant, the market evens out so that numerous manufacturers have a similar share of the market, or one of the copy-cat competitors gains an edge on the original product and takes a clear market lead.

Right now, most MMO developers are trying to be that unique alternative provider that will eventually surpass the current marke leader (WoW) as the top dog.

The market being what it is, and international business world having been awakened to risk management, what kind of product do you think will make it? An already proven concept, with a strong IP to back it up and enough unique elements to lure in customers, or game that closely resembles previous titles that have had either mediocre success or been failures? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out.

The Star Wars IP, a proven and respected developer, extreme community interest. To be honest, it would not be hard for even me to sell a pseudo-Guildwars story and PvP-driven Star Wars MMO to the board of directors. However, I still urge you to chill out. Nobody knows what the game is like yet, all of what I just wrote is just a presumption, like all of the other related babble on these boards.

Originally posted by Hrothmund

Originally posted by Balkin31

Originally posted by Hrothmund

Originally posted by courtsdad

The beauty of SWG was that you could be both the farmer and hero. The options were great and opens up to a much larger  market.

 

Sandbox environment and freedom of choice is synonymous to a larger player demographic? I don't think so. The publishers have to cater to the masses, and most probably that is what they will do with SWTOR.

 

I completely understand that sandbox may not be the masses choice nor the big money pot that the software companies would like it to be, But why make another MMO that does nothing but feed you lines out of a story and lead you around by the nose? I mean go make a movie or another single player game,

If it looks good in a powerpoint presentation to the financial director, it will be greenlighted, that is why.

Let's take a look at a typical situation:

First, there is a trend-setting product that is extremely successful. After this, a wave of carbon-paper copies appears and the owners of the original product start noy only to cash in but also to keep up with the competition with accessories, newer versions of the product and by lowering the price of the original product.

What ensues is either that the original product remains dominant, the market evens out so that numerous manufacturers have a similar share of the market, or one of the copy-cat competitors gains an edge on the original product and takes a clear market lead.

Right now, most MMO developers are trying to be that unique alternative provider that will eventually surpass the current marke leader (WoW) as the top dog.

The market being what it is, and international business world having been awakened to risk management, what kind of product do you think will make it? An already proven concept, with a strong IP to back it up and enough unique elements to lure in customers, or game that closely resembles previous titles that have had either mediocre success or been failures? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out.

The Star Wars IP, a proven and respected developer, extreme community interest. To be honest, it would not be hard for even me to sell a pseudo-Guildwars story and PvP-driven Star Wars MMO to the board of directors. However, I still urge you to chill out. Nobody knows what the game is like yet, all of what I just wrote is just a presumption, like all of the other related babble on these boards.

Of course money is the factor.... We all know that without saying it. And I do know what the game is going to be like, Bioware has given us more than enough to understand what it is they are trying to make. As for chilling out... I'm chill believe me, chilled enough to say pass on this game.. Don't be offended there are lots of games other people like that I wont play.

I've experienced the Hero Engine first hand, they made an excellent choice for the engine. It is pretty much a 3d Modeler setup (think Maya, 3d Max) that has a built in model database that modelers can import the models in. The world builders can pull up the library and drop and drag the model where ever, the programmers can load up the world builders space and add code to the space wherever they want. It is insanely customizable and dare I say the best engine ever built in terms of time saved and organization. As far as graphics go, they can go from a smooth stylized look to a more realistic look.

I'm sure what they are shooting for is a more stylized WoW look something that older PCs can run, they are not looking to glorify the insane system builders that need the best every time a new piece of hardware comes out. A huge percent have older PCs it would be in any companies best interest to appeal to the masses rather than a small percent.

All we are seeing is concept art, I'd wait for a screenshot before saying it's too "cartoonie".

It is amazing how quick people come to conclusion that the game will blow without much viable info on it. /sigh.

Originally posted by Hashbrick

I've experienced the Hero Engine first hand, they made an excellent choice for the engine. It is pretty much a 3d Modeler setup (think Maya, 3d Max) that has a built in model database that modelers can import the models in. The world builders can pull up the library and drop and drag the model where ever, the programmers can load up the world builders space and add code to the space wherever they want. It is insanely customizable and dare I say the best engine ever built in terms of time saved and organization. As far as graphics go, they can go from a smooth stylized look to a more realistic look.

I'm sure what they are shooting for is a more stylized WoW look something that older PCs can run, they are not looking to glorify the insane system builders that need the best every time a new piece of hardware comes out. A huge percent have older PCs it would be in any companies best interest to appeal to the masses rather than a small percent.

All we are seeing is concept art, I'd wait for a screenshot before saying it's too "cartoonie".

It is amazing how quick people come to conclusion that the game will blow without much viable info on it. /sigh.

Thats really interesting ! where did you experience the Hero Engine if you dont mind me asking ?

Thanx fore the update.

Oh no not another jedi wanabie mmo.

Damit I dont wanna run around in a star wars world what ever time line it may be with hunders on hundreds of jedis and sith running around showing off there ow so fency and sexy lightsabers having names like Lokie Starwalker, damit why oh why I ask you where is the fun in everyone being so damed powerfull there is no real point in having classes in a game like this since well every jedi can do ennything that another jedi can do there are no jedi that are better at say healing then another and so on the only thing that may differ is how powerfull you are in the force or in the training of the lightsaber but still there is no real diference between them.

What is the point in being a sith soldier if you have a jedi or sith fore that matter that can just throw you away or take you by the throat, what point is there to be a medic and heal when a jedi can just uce his powers?.

Kotor whas a grate game in single player but when it coems to mmo well its just gonan be a bounch of players running around with lightsabers and who are able to do everything and even if theya devide sith and jedis into diferetn classes like healers and dps'rs it wold only make it worse since in the true meening of star wars lore that diference or class diference or rather skill diference is non existing in the star wars universe.

I love bioware,kotor and star wars and I LOVED the old star wars galaxies but fore the holy Yoda dont make this into a DAMED jedi franshise.

Or what do you people think?,

Originally posted by Hrothmund

I am surprised, a post in this thread that I completely identify with. Too bad many of the hardcore SWG-style sandbox advocates will just read; "I want a wow clone with no depth and a level based progression system, which is bad.. mmkay..." when they see your post.

Glad that there are others who realize that a good MMORPG doesn't have to allow players the "freedom" to grow crops for a profession.     

It's always amazing how people constantly forget that good games are based on rules and restrictions.   Strategy in a football/basketball game is only possible because of the rules, otherwise it's no different than a bunch of kids on a playground fighting over a ball.    

"Sandbox" has been one of those marketing gimmicks that MMORPG developers love to use for marketing hype but they seldom manage to deliver.    Single player RPGs can do the sandbox concept justice because they don't have to worry about thousands of other players who can each ruin each other's individual gaming experience.  EVE Online is probably the closest to a successful sandbox MMORPG but it hardly has a huge audience and not much of any kind of storyline from what I've heard.

It will be interesting to see how Bioware delivers on a MMORPG that they claim will place such emphasis on storyline.     You can be certain they won't try to do it by providing a "sandbox" format in their MMORPG.

Originally posted by JK-Kanosi

Judging by the screen shots, the graphics look closer to The Clone Wars animated movie rather than more realistic graphics, like SWG strived for. The lightsaber in that one Jedi's hand looked like he was holding a spray paint can, it was huge, quite contrary to the elegant weapon the lightsaber is.

At first I thought the oversized lightsaber was supposed to be like an old, low-tech version of a lightsaber.  But those weren't in the KotoR we they?   Unless lightsaber tech took a step backward since the end of that series.    The more stylized look is not surprising, it's easier for more PCs to run and very often ends up looking better than MMOPRG graphics that try to look realistic. 

It sounds like it wont be a sandbox game :( too bad.. and whats up with the companion thing..  and yeah 100.000 jedis in a theme park.. hope not

Hate to say this but story driven? Hereo based? Come on man... The nge failed with hereo classes and cookie cutter linear gameplay.. Honestly this sounds like an online single player game with a monthly cost.. seriously, bioware wake up... I was a huge pre cu swg fan, and am a big star wars nerd in general.. This game isn't tickling my funny bone here..

I know people were saying back on the soe-swg forums stuff like ioware shuold take over etc.. But honestly, bioware games have an overabundance of story and lore.. I mean way over the top.. And their games always lack fun gamelay... kotor series had crap graphics/ui/combat.... It had awesome stats, character info/progression.. It really did a great job on skills and feats it was amazing and exactly what swg was lacking.. but I look at their recent game like never winter nights 2 and I fail to see how there going to pull off a fun mmo... I total suspect this will be an online single player game... which makes paying a monthly pointless..

You know what I want.. I want a star wars game like jedi knight academy type action gameplay coupled with kotors stat/specials/feat system.. And about half of the quests and story... I hated, no.. I despised AoC's quest dialogue window crap.. Seriously, that will wreck this game horribly... Bioware, wake up... Man, what a dissapointment this is to read..

Yep another theme park MMO, with very little ability to set yourself apart from others.  Sounds just like they took Kotor and made it multiplayer.  Watch all the Jedi's with their light sabers.  I knew Bioware would stink up the place with another lame duck game.

Chalk up another loser MMO in a long line of them lately.  No one has the guts to innovate any more.

I think there are far too many people on these boards looking at this situation as so black and white when it comes to a linear game and a sandbox game. This game by the sounds of it does not seem to be a 100% linear adventure. From the sounds of it the freedom element of it comes out in the story. Also do not forget there is going to be space combat here too which has yet to be seen. The game will not be as bad as people are touting. I am sure it will far surpass my expectations because I have none for it. I enjoyed the KOTOR games (although the original was far superior to the sequel) and I have no doubt I will buy the game and at least play it for a month. I do think that Star Wars in general is done to death though. Seriously someone needs to take Lucas's toys away from him.

Some more info

---

NancyMcIntyre

Hello all!

Firstly allow me to share with you the celebration and excitement at the release of Star Wars: The Old Republic. I am sure this will be a game to look forward to!

My friends at Lucas Arts have asked me to pop in and share some of the news you have all been waiting for!

Star Wars : The Old Republic will not contain the excessive amount of reading and complexity the classic SWG game had - we are aiming for an instant gratification (kill, loot, repeat) system you've all want. We have conducted extensive focus group testing these past few years and are giving everyone the chance to immerse themselves in an iconic and starwasy environment. As such, we are delighted to share that your initial encounter with Darth Raven will be as an unforgettable event as they come!

Best Regards,

Nancy.

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Seriously, like seriously, I'm all for the companion part, but other than the IP this game dounds exactly like every other MMO that has hit the market since EQ. SW is great, and I do LOVE bioware as a developer but somehow I just cant seem to get that excited about this one. Too bad though.... would have been great to have a fun functional bugless sandbox mmo.

God what a bunch of whiners....seriously...its not even passed alpha and you all are too blind enough to see that this is not even CLOSE to what the finished product. I think most of you kids need to learn how MMOs are truly made. As for myself Im really excited for this and cant wait to see what its like when it launches because IM atleast smart enough to know that what u see now is not even what its going to be when its done. god...

i m very skeptical but it would be good to see a decent scifi mmorpg .

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Originally posted by metatronic
Nancy your a twit...

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Take that with a grain de sel, there was no LA or Bioware Icon or nothing by her name nor account.

I am a big Starwars fan from the games,comics (esp. in this time period), movies and the table top rpg when all it was a D6 system. I trust Bioware to atleast not bend me over like AOC did.  The idea of having companions does make it sound way to much like KOTOR and am worried about being isolated with class only content but c'mon guys let them alteast get to beta and give more information about the game then what is already posted...which is almost nothing before we burn them at the stake here. All they said is we are making the game and already there posts of how bad the graphics look and sandbox is the only way to go.

Now to add to this speculation of the gaem I bet there will be different Jedi types as there were in the D20 system and I wonder fi they will stick with the D20 lvl pregression

Gamespot got a video

Originally posted by Deewe

 

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Originally posted by metatronic
Nancy your a twit...

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Take that with a grain de sel, there was no LA or Bioware Icon or nothing by her name nor account.

She works for Lucas arts and had a hand in the NGE.. Shes a moron plain and simple..and I getcha .. it could be an imposter which they can also find the same 10 story building/window..

You know why I respect Bioware more than any other company. They came into the MMO scene wearing no shoes. By that I mean we expected nothing. In other big name games like AOC they started the first day saying how they would have large warfare and diverse classes and all this. They had huge shoes to fill and at the end of the day they were just a midget trying to step into a size 16 boot. Bioware as of right now could slip into a toddlers size three sandle and be home free. Of course you know what they say about men with small feet right?

Friends from Brazil says:

GO GO GO!

Well, give them a chance.. It seems that Lucas has given certain companies a chance, to get it right.. Some have, Some have not. The man made his millions the old way, he had a dream and found people to help his dream come true, and from what I am observing, he want this done right..

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Originally posted by summitus

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Originally posted by Hashbrick

I've experienced the Hero Engine first hand, they made an excellent choice for the engine. It is pretty much a 3d Modeler setup (think Maya, 3d Max) that has a built in model database that modelers can import the models in. The world builders can pull up the library and drop and drag the model where ever, the programmers can load up the world builders space and add code to the space wherever they want. It is insanely customizable and dare I say the best engine ever built in terms of time saved and organization. As far as graphics go, they can go from a smooth stylized look to a more realistic look.
I'm sure what they are shooting for is a more stylized WoW look something that older PCs can run, they are not looking to glorify the insane system builders that need the best every time a new piece of hardware comes out. A huge percent have older PCs it would be in any companies best interest to appeal to the masses rather than a small percent.
All we are seeing is concept art, I'd wait for a screenshot before saying it's too "cartoonie".
It is amazing how quick people come to conclusion that the game will blow without much viable info on it. /sigh.

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Thats really interesting ! where did you experience the Hero Engine if you dont mind me asking ?

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I was on the Simutronics team for World Building Hero's Journey, the game yet to be seen. Even though they say they are working on it... they are way more interested in updating and marketing the engine. They found a better path then marketing an MMO. I'm not sure what happened to a lot of the staff but they cut out enough to make it a smaller project than what it started with.

Originally posted by Arcona

Gamespot got a video

Thanks for the link. That was pretty informational.

An emphasis on story and choice in an MMO? I think I may faint! ..../swoon.

Can i be a creature handler?

Well first off this SW isnt set in the current Star Wars time frame. Its set thousands of yrs before ep1. So Bioware can pretty much go into places and directions that SWG couldnt. As far as story driven goes thats not a bad thing heck look at WoW you could do the story arcs if you wanted to if not that was fine to. Even City of Heros had good story arcs if you so choose to do them as well as LotRO. As long as the world is open ended and you are free to chose what you want or dont want  to do there shouldnt be a problem

the more i hear about this game, the more it sounds like something being made for the console kiddies, but will wait and see

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Originally posted by Fadedbomb
Too bad the art-style isn't even Starwasy. This game might as well have been a single player game, because it most certainly has nothing Star Wars oriented about it based on everything we've been told and can see with our eyes ^.

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I like star wars alot, Kotor alot....and this art style they have adopted, well I wont say its WoWish because everyone says that about everything but I will say that I dont like it, its cartoony, its not gritty enough and its not Star Warsy enough imo.

Star Wars Galxies nailed it imo with the art style. This art style doesnt come anywhere close to what it should of been.

I have alot of faith in Bioware simply because I played alot of their games and they have yet to disappoint. I know alot are excited but it's barely been 24 hours since the announcement. We all will eventually find out the answers to all of our concerns over time. I'm just excited that Bioware will be making this game and not anyone else.

Oh and people complaining that it will not be a sandbox. Let me remind you that one of the main reasons why people played SWG was because they are first and foremost Star Wars fans and it will be one of the main reasons why people will come to play SW:TOR because they are Star Wars fans first.

No matter the spin you put on it, It is a jedi theme park first and formost.  Hence Lucas Arts gets the game they want with the appeal to the younger set and MMO veterans get the old finger flag. 

I hate to be pessimistic, but honestly BioWare is dead. They were bought out by EA who is just looking for another WoW clone. Look at Mythic and WAR. Mythic made a much better game when they were an indie company. WAR is worse than WoW.

EA+LucasArts=Fail. There is no BioWare. Be fooled if you want. They fooled me with WAR, and it won't happen again.

This is BioWare we're talking about: they specialize in SPRPGs that ROCK. Play the hero and enjoy a kickass movie-script-quality story that you won't soon forget.

Just think, though. They may make good games, but can you really generalize and say that MMOs are just like any other genre? BioWare does single-player stuff very well, but they probably know next to nothing about social mechanics.

My prediction: I half expect this game to fail due to developer inexperience. They will likely release a single player role-playing game with multiplayer capabilities tacked on the side... at the very least. At best, you'll get AoC's player progression time line.

This information scares me; they think to give each player an experience as a hero using story-driven gameplay... in an MMOG. It's a horrible idea to teach players that they're especially unique and important to a plot in a massively multiplayer game when the very nature of this genre does not allow for heroes.

Really, if everyone's "special" in the same way, they're not really that special are they?

Every developer worth his salt knows that you can never satisfy players with raw content for more than a month without throwing in some grinding tasks to stretch it out. So either there will be a lot of heroic fed-ex missions with lightsaber in hand (still a day-in-the-life), or this game is going to last for one month and die abruptly.

Originally posted by Plasuma!!!

This is BioWare we're talking about: they specialize in SPRPGs that ROCK. Play the hero and enjoy a kickass movie-script-quality story that you won't soon forget.

Just think, though. They may make good games, but can you really generalize and say that MMOs are just like any other genre? BioWare does single-player stuff very well, but they probably know next to nothing about social mechanics.

My prediction: I half expect this game to fail due to developer inexperience. They will likely release a single player role-playing game with multiplayer capabilities tacked on the side... at the very least. At best, you'll get AoC's player progression time line.

 

This information scares me; they think to give each player an experience as a hero using story-driven gameplay... in an MMOG. It's a horrible idea to teach players that they're especially unique and important to a plot in a massively multiplayer game when the very nature of this genre does not allow for heroes.

Really, if everyone's "special" in the same way, they're not really that special are they?

Every developer worth his salt knows that you can never satisfy players with raw content for more than a month without throwing in some grinding tasks to stretch it out. So either there will be a lot of heroic fed-ex missions with lightsaber in hand (still a day-in-the-life), or this game is going to last for one month and die abruptly.

1. Blizzard had no experience making mmos prior to WOW so saying the game will fail do to lack of inexperience is way off base.

2. Bioware is listed as one of the best developers in gaming today.

Nothing wrong with voicing your opinions but really we do not even know 3/4th of the info on the game and saying it is going to fail already is just mind boggling.

Sooner or later MMO's will come full circle, but not this time methinks.  Reading between the lines, which of course means that I could be completely off track, I can see the main story arc as a series of special objectives or quests liberally sprinkled in with the other more mundane tasks on the players linear route to max level.  Go and collect twelve Womp-Rat tails, oh and while you are out there perhaps nip along to this little side valley and bump off this bloke for your level 10 part of the story.  Call me a cynic but meh!

I have no doubt that Bioware will make the story something very special and most likely the best that we have seen so far from an MMO as that is afterall what they are good at, they may even throw in the combat mechanics from Mass Effect, although we are more likely to see something along the lines of Kotor 2.  No matter how you dress it up though a major storyline is a linear thing that would only work well in a linear game, and even then only if you didn't need other players along to complete it.  If the story requires co-op play and there is nobody around to get it done with then sooner or later you will out-level that part of the arc and bang goes the immersion.

The idea of a truly great sandbox MMO isn't dead, it will just take a little longer for developers to realise that there is no more of Blizzard's pie left to take a bite from, and by making a quest or story driven linear path all you are doing is throwing your game into the melting pot alongside the big hitters, and when you do that you had better be damn good or get badly bitten ( see AoC ).   The next great sandbox game will not come out of a big studio with limitless wealth, but from a small independant that needs to find it's own niche.

Originally posted by eric1000

Sooner or later MMO's will come full circle, but not this time methinks.  Reading between the lines, which of course means that I could be completely off track, I can see the main story arc as a series of special objectives or quests liberally sprinkled in with the other more mundane tasks on the players linear route to max level.  Go and collect twelve Womp-Rat tails, oh and while you are out there perhaps nip along to this little side valley and bump off this bloke for your level 10 part of the story.  Call me a cynic but meh!

 

I have no doubt that Bioware will make the story something very special and most likely the best that we have seen so far from an MMO as that is afterall what they are good at, they may even throw in the combat mechanics from Mass Effect, although we are more likely to see something along the lines of Kotor 2.  No matter how you dress it up though a major storyline is a linear thing that would only work well in a linear game, and even then only if you didn't need other players along to complete it.  If the story requires co-op play and there is nobody around to get it done with then sooner or later you will out-level that part of the arc and bang goes the immersion.

 

The idea of a truly great sandbox MMO isn't dead, it will just take a little longer for developers to realise that there is no more of Blizzard's pie left to take a bite from, and by making a quest or story driven linear path all you are doing is throwing your game into the melting pot alongside the big hitters, and when you do that you had better be damn good or get badly bitten ( see AoC ).   The next great sandbox game will not come out of a big studio with limitless wealth, but from a small independant that needs to find it's own niche.

The storyline would be linear if your choices in it didn't matter. According to BioWare however, they will. Your choices in quests and how you treat your "Companions" and so on have an effect on how "YOUR" story plays out. So it's not that linear anymore, I would think.

Originally posted by singsofdeath

Originally posted by eric1000

Sooner or later MMO's will come full circle, but not this time methinks.  Reading between the lines, which of course means that I could be completely off track, I can see the main story arc as a series of special objectives or quests liberally sprinkled in with the other more mundane tasks on the players linear route to max level.  Go and collect twelve Womp-Rat tails, oh and while you are out there perhaps nip along to this little side valley and bump off this bloke for your level 10 part of the story.  Call me a cynic but meh!

 

I have no doubt that Bioware will make the story something very special and most likely the best that we have seen so far from an MMO as that is afterall what they are good at, they may even throw in the combat mechanics from Mass Effect, although we are more likely to see something along the lines of Kotor 2.  No matter how you dress it up though a major storyline is a linear thing that would only work well in a linear game, and even then only if you didn't need other players along to complete it.  If the story requires co-op play and there is nobody around to get it done with then sooner or later you will out-level that part of the arc and bang goes the immersion.

 

The idea of a truly great sandbox MMO isn't dead, it will just take a little longer for developers to realise that there is no more of Blizzard's pie left to take a bite from, and by making a quest or story driven linear path all you are doing is throwing your game into the melting pot alongside the big hitters, and when you do that you had better be damn good or get badly bitten ( see AoC ).   The next great sandbox game will not come out of a big studio with limitless wealth, but from a small independant that needs to find it's own niche.

 

The storyline would be linear if your choices in it didn't matter. According to BioWare however, they will. Your choices in quests and how you treat your "Companions" and so on have an effect on how "YOUR" story plays out. So it's not that linear anymore, I would think.

Actually it is.  The Kotor games, Mass Effect etc. all had this feature but the story always leads to the final battle in the final room no matter how many little variations you throw in along the way.  Your ending may appear a little different, good or evil, saviour or villain but that final battle still awaits you.

Originally posted by Alienovrlord

In their interview, Muzyka says that, “It’s not a day-in-the-life of Star Wars”. Instead, he tells them that it’s about being a hero. Obviously, this puts a damper on players who may have been hoping to spend their time strictly as an entertainer or moisture farmer.

This was one of the most encouraging things they could have said about this MMORPG. This is Star Wars. It’s not about owning a shop or growing crops. It’s about fighting for the fate of the galaxy.

Bioware gets this and I expect they’ll focus first on making a fun game rather then following the insipid design choices of the SOE developers.  A wonderful, player-interdependent crafting system doesn’t help when you ignore balance and gameplay design problems.   Star Wars isn’t a story about musicians.    I'm looking forward to seeing a company who finally understands that produce a real Star Wars MMORPG.
 

Okay first of all I know what to expect from Bioware so I aint expecting some sort of world simulation MMORPG, but............

That hero thing bothers me abit , maybe it's because I am not limited to MMORPG's but play plenty of other games in different genre's, this means there are already tons and tons of games that offer you to be a hero and MMORPG use to be so much more, sure you could become a hero but all by your own doing and not because the games story is making you one as like I said we have tons of games that catter to that and MMORPG's use to be so much more then that so I am really puzzeld at to why people want to be a hero that is already written instead of creating their own hero source.

The Bioware MMORPG however probebly will be good, it will be nothing like SWG but will be everything Bioware is known for.

Overall only time will tell what the game will be like, maybe it will become awesome to me, maybe not.

Originally posted by eric1000

Originally posted by singsofdeath

Originally posted by eric1000

Sooner or later MMO's will come full circle, but not this time methinks.  Reading between the lines, which of course means that I could be completely off track, I can see the main story arc as a series of special objectives or quests liberally sprinkled in with the other more mundane tasks on the players linear route to max level.  Go and collect twelve Womp-Rat tails, oh and while you are out there perhaps nip along to this little side valley and bump off this bloke for your level 10 part of the story.  Call me a cynic but meh!

 

I have no doubt that Bioware will make the story something very special and most likely the best that we have seen so far from an MMO as that is afterall what they are good at, they may even throw in the combat mechanics from Mass Effect, although we are more likely to see something along the lines of Kotor 2.  No matter how you dress it up though a major storyline is a linear thing that would only work well in a linear game, and even then only if you didn't need other players along to complete it.  If the story requires co-op play and there is nobody around to get it done with then sooner or later you will out-level that part of the arc and bang goes the immersion.

 

The idea of a truly great sandbox MMO isn't dead, it will just take a little longer for developers to realise that there is no more of Blizzard's pie left to take a bite from, and by making a quest or story driven linear path all you are doing is throwing your game into the melting pot alongside the big hitters, and when you do that you had better be damn good or get badly bitten ( see AoC ).   The next great sandbox game will not come out of a big studio with limitless wealth, but from a small independant that needs to find it's own niche.

 

The storyline would be linear if your choices in it didn't matter. According to BioWare however, they will. Your choices in quests and how you treat your "Companions" and so on have an effect on how "YOUR" story plays out. So it's not that linear anymore, I would think.

 

Actually it is.  The Kotor games, Mass Effect etc. all had this feature but the story always leads to the final battle in the final room no matter how many little variations you throw in along the way.  Your ending may appear a little different, good or evil, saviour or villain but that final battle still awaits you.

That's why I said if your choices -MATTER-. In Mass Effect, your choices didn't matter so much, as in, they always led you down the same path, while they had interesting variations to the linear story.

However if the choices MATTER, as BioWare said they would in this game, that's a different story. I don't know if they will, but after all they HAVE said that they have more Story-Content in this game than in all their SP games combined. So it might work. I am positively hopeful.

Originally posted by singsofdeath

Originally posted by eric1000

Originally posted by singsofdeath

Originally posted by eric1000

Sooner or later MMO's will come full circle, but not this time methinks.  Reading between the lines, which of course means that I could be completely off track, I can see the main story arc as a series of special objectives or quests liberally sprinkled in with the other more mundane tasks on the players linear route to max level.  Go and collect twelve Womp-Rat tails, oh and while you are out there perhaps nip along to this little side valley and bump off this bloke for your level 10 part of the story.  Call me a cynic but meh!

 

I have no doubt that Bioware will make the story something very special and most likely the best that we have seen so far from an MMO as that is afterall what they are good at, they may even throw in the combat mechanics from Mass Effect, although we are more likely to see something along the lines of Kotor 2.  No matter how you dress it up though a major storyline is a linear thing that would only work well in a linear game, and even then only if you didn't need other players along to complete it.  If the story requires co-op play and there is nobody around to get it done with then sooner or later you will out-level that part of the arc and bang goes the immersion.

 

The idea of a truly great sandbox MMO isn't dead, it will just take a little longer for developers to realise that there is no more of Blizzard's pie left to take a bite from, and by making a quest or story driven linear path all you are doing is throwing your game into the melting pot alongside the big hitters, and when you do that you had better be damn good or get badly bitten ( see AoC ).   The next great sandbox game will not come out of a big studio with limitless wealth, but from a small independant that needs to find it's own niche.

 

The storyline would be linear if your choices in it didn't matter. According to BioWare however, they will. Your choices in quests and how you treat your "Companions" and so on have an effect on how "YOUR" story plays out. So it's not that linear anymore, I would think.

 

Actually it is.  The Kotor games, Mass Effect etc. all had this feature but the story always leads to the final battle in the final room no matter how many little variations you throw in along the way.  Your ending may appear a little different, good or evil, saviour or villain but that final battle still awaits you.

 

That's why I said if your choices -MATTER-. In Mass Effect, your choices didn't matter so much, as in, they always led you down the same path, while they had interesting variations to the linear story.

 

However if the choices MATTER, as BioWare said they would in this game, that's a different story. I don't know if they will, but after all they HAVE said that they have more Story-Content in this game than in all their SP games combined. So it might work. I am positively hopeful.

I love your optimism

To create the kind of story that you are talking about though would require more than a dozen writers and many years of development, not to mention quantum computers that could intelligently react to the players decisions.  A non-linear storyline by definition would have an infinate number of possibilities and the hardware just does not exist yet that can deliver that.  The story as is would need to be much larger and longer than all the SP games as it has to keep people playing for a lot longer in an MMO, 80 hours or so just wouldn't cut it in the MMO genre.  That said however it is still impossible to stay ahead of the players as some will still power through it at breakneck speeds, reaching level cap in a week or so as with all other MMO's. 

They want you to be the hero but again this idea falls flat on it's face because when you reach the end there are a few thousand others that have already done the same thing you just completed.  The only way around this is to have a unique story for each player and again, that's impossible as you would need an army of writers or hardware that could think and produce content on demand like an electronic and superfast GM.  In the future maybe but it doesn't exist yet

Originally posted by eric1000

 

I love your optimism

To create the kind of story that you are talking about though would require more than a dozen writers and many years of development, not to mention quantum computers that could intelligently react to the players decisions.  A non-linear storyline by definition would have an infinate number of possibilities and the hardware just does not exist yet that can deliver that.  The story as is would need to be much larger and longer than all the SP games as it has to keep people playing for a lot longer in an MMO, 80 hours or so just wouldn't cut it in the MMO genre.  That said however it is still impossible to stay ahead of the players as some will still power through it at breakneck speeds, reaching level cap in a week or so as with all other MMO's. 

 

They want you to be the hero but again this idea falls flat on it's face because when you reach the end there are a few thousand others that have already done the same thing you just completed.  The only way around this is to have a unique story for each player and again, that's impossible as you would need an army of writers or hardware that could think and produce content on demand like an electronic and superfast GM.  In the future maybe but it doesn't exist yet

Actually, they -HAVE- more than a dozen writers working on content for this game. There#s a link somewhere to an interview about that.

I agree that -complete- freedom of choice is something you can't have in the games of today, not in the setup that we're talking about, but at least you can have a long long list of variables. Choices leading to different choices leading to more choices. Maybe each time you choose you only have three options, but even then, progressing from zero to top will lead you through many choices and the combinations of those are maybe not infinite, but at least offer abroad variety.

True freedom of choice is something reserved for the future, at least in MMO's. But hey, variety will be good to begin with.

The same blabla as Age of Conan .... You're a hero ... story driven .... bla bla bla ...

Half the AoC players i spoke told me that questing for them in AoC is pressing 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1 The only reason they love the main story line quests is for the rewards.

I think only few people have the interest or attention span to read the quest text, all the rest doesn't care and only wants to kill and loot. A "day-in-the-life-of" so to speak.

Originally posted by MarlonB

The same blabla as Age of Conan .... You're a hero ... story driven .... bla bla bla ...

Half the AoC players i spoke told me that questing for them in AoC is pressing 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1 The only reason they love the main story line quests is for the rewards.

I think only few people have the interest or attention span to read the quest text, all the rest doesn't care and only wants to kill and loot. A "day-in-the-life-of" so to speak.

Sorry I laughed out loud at your horrible attempt to bundle SWTOR with AoC. I agree most people(including my self) just pushed 1 over and over,  but that was only because it did not matter what line you chose. The fact you say people only did the stories for the loot is the funny part though. I will give you the benefit of the doubt but you obviously never played the game to 80 if you think loot did anything in this game. The loot from the destiny quests gave nothing but garbage and a tiny amount of permanent stat boosts.

 No one did the destiny quests for loot, no one did the quests for loot, hell you barely even needed armor to begin with. How can you possibly put SWTOR in the same catagory as AoC knowing this? Please, next time try use something other then your biased opinion.

Originally posted by pandrax

Originally posted by MarlonB

The same blabla as Age of Conan .... You're a hero ... story driven .... bla bla bla ...

Half the AoC players i spoke told me that questing for them in AoC is pressing 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1 The only reason they love the main story line quests is for the rewards.

I think only few people have the interest or attention span to read the quest text, all the rest doesn't care and only wants to kill and loot. A "day-in-the-life-of" so to speak.

 

Sorry I laughed out loud at your horrible attempt to bundle SWTOR with AoC. I agree most people(including my self) just pushed 1 over and over,  but that was only because it did not matter what line you chose. The fact you say people only did the stories for the loot is the funny part though. I will give you the benefit of the doubt but you obviously never played the game to 80 if you think loot did anything in this game. The loot from the destiny quests gave nothing but garbage and a tiny amount of permanent stat boosts.

 

 No one did the destiny quests for loot, no one did the quests for loot, hell you barely even needed armor to begin with. How can you possibly put SWTOR in the same catagory as AoC knowing this? Please, next time try use something other then your biased opinion.

You are correct ..... it is my opinion :) and it might  even be biased, which is not that rare on a forum.

I thought i editted my previous post from rewards into stat-rewards, but it seems i didn't. Indeed armor, and itemisation in general was not that great in AoC. Those epic quests were fun... but the story telling part was 1,1,1,1,1,1,1.  Heh, the number of times i've seen people complain on the forums because  they selected the wrong stat reward because they were bashing 1 proves my case ;)

What i'm comparing here btw  (not categorising, that's your opinion) is the story driven element heroic part , not the game as a whole. In my opinion the few people that care to read the quest, will loose there interest soon ... only a few hardcore readers might actually read it all.

Ps: I'm pleased i could amuse you, i always like to make people laugh

No, we do not know a lot about the game yet, but we do know what we are getting reported.

And those reports indicates strongly that the major focus is on the individual player (you are THE hero) and not on interaction of players (your involvement with other players determine your success). Based on the information given it seems SW:TOR will be another "theme-park" MMO with fancy rides and stories being to told you, and not a virtual universe where stories are what the players make them to be.

My spider sense is not tingling over this one.

is there going to be any crafting, or open professions aside from fighting, player housing, a starwars mmo seems nice, but I dont want it to just be running around and killing stuff, hopefully it will have some more playing options other than fighting.

Don't know why everyone seems to have an issue with the graphics. Reminds me a lot of the "Tales of the Jedi" comics put out by Dark Horse which is where this entire era of SW got it's start.

Originally posted by pandrax

Originally posted by MarlonB

The same blabla as Age of Conan .... You're a hero ... story driven .... bla bla bla ...

Half the AoC players i spoke told me that questing for them in AoC is pressing 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1 The only reason they love the main story line quests is for the rewards.

I think only few people have the interest or attention span to read the quest text, all the rest doesn't care and only wants to kill and loot. A "day-in-the-life-of" so to speak.

 

Sorry I laughed out loud at your horrible attempt to bundle SWTOR with AoC. I agree most people(including my self) just pushed 1 over and over,  but that was only because it did not matter what line you chose. The fact you say people only did the stories for the loot is the funny part though. I will give you the benefit of the doubt but you obviously never played the game to 80 if you think loot did anything in this game. The loot from the destiny quests gave nothing but garbage and a tiny amount of permanent stat boosts.

 

 No one did the destiny quests for loot, no one did the quests for loot, hell you barely even needed armor to begin with. How can you possibly put SWTOR in the same catagory as AoC knowing this? Please, next time try use something other then your biased opinion.

Actually it is quite easy to put to tie this game in with Conan.  It is exactly what the game will be, spoon fed questing.
 

This game will attract a lot of initial players until they figure out that it is another lead you by the hand theme park and then, just like Conan the playerbase with rapidly dwindle.

All those Bioware is great posters are now eating a lot of crow.

if Muzyka does not understand that "It’s not a day-in-the-life of Star Wars,  it’s about being a hero" in a MMO context is a paradoxon, then Bioware is more f**ked than i thought. Being a hero works fine for solo games, making everybody a hero in an MMO is just crapp cause the demotes the hero status to an average-joe.

after seeing the rise and fall of SWG and this annoucement my conclusion is the following, the SW-background is simply incompatible with the concept of a successful MMO.  If you want to make a SW-MMO Lucasarts forces you to opt for the current mainstream market, as a consequence there is no chance for the development of content that is appealing for mature gamers but you are forced for addressing the needs of the average 14 to 25 year old star wars 2nd generation fans, which maybe have played WoW but no complex MMO and are used to have all the easy to achieve blinky blinky.

The result is a flavor of the month pseudo-storydriven mass product with astonnishing peak sales during release and the same astonishing decay afterwards.

Originally posted by Jowen

No, we do not know a lot about the game yet, but we do know what we are getting reported.

And those reports indicates straongly that the major focus is on the individual player (you are THE hero) and not on interaction of players (your involvement with other players detemins you success). Based on the information given it seems SW:TOR will be another "themepark" MMO with fancy rides and stories being to told you, and not a virtual unniverse where stories are what the players make them to be.

My spider sense is not tingling over this one.

Not necessarily, I think the main focus of the developers is to make you feel like A Star Wars hero, which does not rule out grouping and socializing at all.

Originally posted by Hrothmund

Originally posted by Jowen

No, we do not know a lot about the game yet, but we do know what we are getting reported.

And those reports indicates straongly that the major focus is on the individual player (you are THE hero) and not on interaction of players (your involvement with other players detemins you success). Based on the information given it seems SW:TOR will be another "themepark" MMO with fancy rides and stories being to told you, and not a virtual unniverse where stories are what the players make them to be.

My spider sense is not tingling over this one.

 

Not necessarily, I think the main focus of the developers is to make you feel like A Star Wars hero, which does not rule out grouping and socializing at all.

Indeed. They even made an example of Luke and Han, who both have completely different stories yet still come together to battle for the good of the galaxy (of course, you can be evil as well, so clearly you don't have to be a Han or luke clone.).

If any of you guys have read EU novels, there is TONS of room to make epic stories for individual characters, without dramatically affecting the entire galaxy. If Bioware says they are putting more writing effort into this game than all of their other games combined, then damn it, I'm excited. And if they say they think they can make storytelling work in an online atmosphere, without the need to replay the same quest you did a week ago for you but this time for your buddy, I believe them.

They made a conscious choice to take the franchise to the online space, when they could easily have turned out another massively selling single player game. Honestly, I don't think EA had a whole lot to do with that decision either. If they think it can be done, I think it'll be better than what we have on the market now, at minimum.

Originally posted by Hrothmund

Originally posted by just_because

this looks like it's gonna be yet another game clone, a "quest-based" game on rails, a-la WoW.

 

Where's the freedom of SWG?  the sandboxing???

 

Jedi fest?  what's this? A glowstick dance party?

 

lame, very lame

 

And yet an other SWG cry-baby manages to completely ignore the time period differences between SWTOR and SWG, well done!

what does the time period matter?  was there no crafting?  no planets to run around and explore?  Or did that sort of stuff not exist back then? c'mon!

meh, I guess u can't expect an intelligent game from MMOKOTOR

This is not a swg game.

Still I am a swg or rather whas a swg fan BUT the thing with this game is that there will be no room fore other topics then jedis and sith its gonna be like playing a game where everything is about a certain class or atleast thats my opinion.

Who in the right mind wanna play a less powerfull class in a game that most certenly will have pvp? who will be able to stand against a sith or a jedi fore that mater being only a soldier of the republic or a soldier of the sith?.

Sure theay talk about elite soldier but still there is no one who can stand up to a jedi unless you are jedi or a sith.

What I gues I want to say is that my bigest consens are how theay will balance the game and how theay will be true to the story and lore if say a soldeir can kill a jedi or sith.

Also how will there be room fore other classes when the main story and plot is about the force and uce of the force?.

All hail the jedi and sith wanabies but please dont let to menny of them on this game and ruin it:).

As mentioned, this game isn't even in alpha, and yet people are already saying it's gonna suck. How stupid is that? You don't even know what the game is going to be like, yet are making decisions to not play the game, based on a few words that have no context behind them.

They say the game is about being a hero, but what does that mean? Are we literally going to be heroes (ala CoH) or are we going to be performing heroic actions (which your character does in the majority of MMOs).

It appears to me that they are simply saying that you'll be doing things that impact the world... Being an entertainer in SWG is not impacting the world. Being a moisture farmer is not impacting the world. Saving a colony from raiders /is/ impacting the world.

But then i'm not a dev working on the game, and neither are any of you, so none of us have any idea regarding what the game is about.

As for those arguing about the game being story driven and therefore cutting out social interaction... Anyone who has played NWN multiplayer will know that you can have both a strong story and strong teamwork. And who developed NWN? Gasp! Bioware! So they have experience in this regard. Infact, they're probably one of the only developers around who do... So if anyone can do it, Bioware can.

Yes, stories tend to be linear. But then the majority of MMOs are linear to some degree. They just give the illusion of openness by providing alternative routes. But in the end they all lead to the same point, the endgame.

Originally posted by Cesarkan

This is not a swg game.

 

Still I am a swg or rather whas a swg fan BUT the thing with this game is that there will be no room fore other topics then jedis and sith its gonna be like playing a game where everything is about a certain class or atleast thats my opinion.

Who in the right mind wanna play a less powerfull class in a game that most certenly will have pvp? who will be able to stand against a sith or a jedi fore that mater being only a soldier of the republic or a soldier of the sith?.

Sure theay talk about elite soldier but still there is no one who can stand up to a jedi unless you are jedi or a sith.

 

What I gues I want to say is that my bigest consens are how theay will balance the game and how theay will be true to the story and lore if say a soldeir can kill a jedi or sith.

Also how will there be room fore other classes when the main story and plot is about the force and uce of the force?.

 

All hail the jedi and sith wanabies but please dont let to menny of them on this game and ruin it:).

 

 

your post has no validity to it whatsoever. nowhere is it stated that jedi are going to be the end all be all of classes nor does it have to be. do some research first before you post this incohearant drivle for the rest of us to be disgusted with.

*wishing he could timetravel, drewling on the keyboard while reading de description*

Lol to say that my statment have no validity what so ever just made my day thank you Lornj,

Well to answer your oh so inteligent statment about my reply to this thread let me first of all say that you my friend must be the al mighty book of star wars well you honestly sound like you wanna be atleast:).

Fore your and others information even thou it dosnt matter I have read everything there is to read about this version of kotor, I have also played kotor more then I can think of not to mention watching the movies and read most of the books that there is to read and yes Im somewhat of a star wars freek:).

First of all my friends WHO is the hero in the kotor games I ask you? sure the answer is simple its YOU but bare with me fore a moment here and think a bit hmm. what class is the hero and what is the main story about? YES thats right sith and jedis and the force.

So I dont know about you but this makes me think that there is a red thread here HERO in the atleast new star wars movies and in the content of kotor is the force ucers.

Secondly in the time line that the story of this game being kotor is there are thusands upon thusands of people who are force sensetive (people who are able to learn to uce the force) this will fore the company open up a golden uportunity to let everyone play a lightsaber fighting HERO and this my friends is smart MARKETING becuse what is it that most people wanna play atleast the kids? YES ofcorse jedis and sith.

Also yes in the kotor games there have been like 4 diferent jedi types but this dosnt realy matter becuse shuldnt a star wars game and apsecialy a mmo be about so much more then people running around casting lightning at eachother?.

Npw Im sorry if Im starting to sound like a pessimist but I fore once wold love to play in a star wars world that is not trying to squuece aout every last penny theay cane from the word jedi and sith empire.

I LOVE the kotor games and the star wars universe but there is so much more to it then just the force.

Im gonna try and be more optemistic becuse hey it is bioware after all and it is star wars I will absolutely ceep my eyes open fore this but still gonna be somewhat sceptical.

But please Lornj and the others who dosnt agree with my line of arguing this matter and who think that theay know so much more about this game and everything about star wars lore, lighten up my day and explain to me how the hell there are not gonna be servers upon server of force ucers. Hpw there are gonna be classes that are not ucing the force in a world of almost endless force ucers?.

What I expect  to see in this game:

To be polished, both graphically and by near-perfect coding 

To be a BIG adventure game, but mainly for soloing

What I DON'T expect to see in this game:

Good PvP

Sandbox concept

Interesting crafting

If this all comes true, I'm sure I won't be playing it. So many MMO's were so well advertised, but ultimately FAILED to catch my (and so many others') prolonged interest in it.

I tried them all: LOTRO, AoC, WAR... and too many "smaller budget" MMO's...

The only two which really were worth investing time and money (IMHO) - Pre-CU SWG and WoW (which I still play on and off).

Frankly, I was dissapointed too many times, so I'm not putting any hopes in this game.

We will see how it is when it's finished, and I'm not going to follow it's developement. Ultimately, that's just  a waste of your time.

About time we got a new Star Wars game, since SWG were ruined by SOE..

I've heard rumours about a new Star Wars game for over a year now, if not longer, but anyway....

I have to say that i look forward to another Star Wars MMO, just the feeling of beeing a part of the star wars saga or participating in it is great fun..

The SWG sitgma will forever haunt ANY star wars MMO to ever see the light.  I've never even played it, but all these jaded players always bring it up.  That said, i can't wait to see how Bioware handles this.  Didn't Blizzard have skeptics entering the MMO genre too? ;)

The people wanting KOTOR 3 instead of a MMO should be happy. From what I read this game sounds like it's going to be sort of Guild wars mixed with LOTRO.

It's not a sandbox, it's not the idea SWG had (pre cu) of "You're Star Wars Experience".

It's NGE2. Everyone is "Heroic". Crafting is just a add in. Items will be Loot based. There is class and levels. Every class will be in the same base storyline as everyone else in that class. It sounds like a multiplayer themepark made with a WoW foundation.

The more I read the more disappointed I become.

Any devs out there with the nads to make a next gen sandbox?

O wel,l I still have EVE. 

Originally posted by NewEco

if Muzyka does not understand that "It’s not a day-in-the-life of Star Wars,  it’s about being a hero" in a MMO context is a paradoxon, then Bioware is more f**ked than i thought. Being a hero works fine for solo games, making everybody a hero in an MMO is just crapp cause the demotes the hero status to an average-joe.

after seeing the rise and fall of SWG and this annoucement my conclusion is the following, the SW-background is simply incompatible with the concept of a successful MMO.  If you want to make a SW-MMO Lucasarts forces you to opt for the current mainstream market, as a consequence there is no chance for the development of content that is appealing for mature gamers but you are forced for addressing the needs of the average 14 to 25 year old star wars 2nd generation fans, which maybe have played WoW but no complex MMO and are used to have all the easy to achieve blinky blinky.

The result is a flavor of the month pseudo-storydriven mass product with astonnishing peak sales during release and the same astonishing decay afterwards.