Mortal Online Forum » General Discussion » A flaw i noticed

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by jaspr180

Originally posted by humwha

lol all of a sudden im a carebear for saying that theres a possible flaw in your game you love without playing.

You assume too much, i like the idea and concept of no mini-map however i think within the first 3 months around there someone will have created a mapping program that tells them where you are maby a month later you will be screaming exploit on the forums cause your geting ganked by people with a advantage over you ;p.

Since its a skill to have a mini map depending on how hard it is to get and how well it works all this might be moot if its a week to get a decent working mini map this prob wont be a problem but if it uses up a skill slot or is in anyway hard to get or maintain this senario will happen.

I also love the logic on  this forum, " YOU DONT LIKE BEING FRUSTRATED LIKE ME BAHHHH GET OUT" and when your alone in 6 months after release going  "bah there no one to gank bah carebears" it will be sad ;(

 

 

I dont think anybody was ever calling you a carebear but you keep saying the things we enjoy are "flaws" which is a bit of a insult.  Many of us here have had to go through disappointment after disappointment as we watched our loved games change for "mainstream" tastes.   Most of us might be a little defensive as soon as we see people complain and moan until the games we loved once change into something we no longer recognize.      This is a niche game for a niche crowd, this is the game StarVault wants and its personally the game I want. 

Sure there will be online maps posted of all the in game content before long, but you still will not know where you are on the map as long as the dev's keep coordinates away from 3rd party programs.   I dont care if they go the Blizzard route and install spyware.    Anyway, these are my feelings I hope you see where some of us are coming from. 

 

They probably won't be able to, and map tracking hacks will appear almost immediately. Worse, there's no need for feedback so I suspect it will be mostly undetectable.

We'll have to see how well it works out in practice.  Could be cool, could really suck. Could just force everyone to get the map making skill.  So much for variety of builds.

 

 

 

Or, it could make the explorer/cartographer another viable way to play the game, making it more of an actual sandbox game.

If we're going to preemptively level the playing field because of inevitable hacks, then perhaps all characters should be able to fly, have rader, be invisble, run at supersonic speeds, have infinite hit points and stamina, and walk through walls.

I'm guessing the next "flaw" the OP will discover will be the lack of universal banks.  *GASP*

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by Tridian

Originally posted by madeux

Mapmaking will be a skill.  You'll be able to learn areas, but the first time you go there you'll be completely lost.

I kinda like it.

It seems to me that you're just searching for an issue so you can't dislike the game. 

 

That just sounds freakin awesome.

 

Exactly!  For me, it's just one of hundreds of little decisions that they've made to enhance the game and bring in a bit of realism. 

This, in my opinion, is one of the coolest features of the game.  The idea that I can grab some gear and wonder out to the middle of nowhere and be lost, truly exploring, is incredible.  The idea of exploring specifically for the purpose of creating maps is also awesome.

I'm with you guys.  I've been waiting for a game like this for a long time now, and I'm so frustrated about the state of current games that I haven't played one for a year now.  It's important that we all give this game time to evolve and the community to evolve around it.  Even though it may not seem so, humans are fairly intelligent.  We will find ways to solve problems and if we can't, then we can go back to SV and see what they have to say about it.

Since Twitter is all the buzz lately, just look at how the users took it to another level, solving a problem just by starting to use hashtags as part of their 140 character limit.  This required ZERO changes to Twitter, but added a ton of new uses for the technology.  Those of us who played SWG know that we did all kinds of things to solve problems and build our own content and rules within the framework of the game.  SOE never planned for most of that stuff, it was spontaneously created by the players thanks to the flexibility of the game itself.

Originally posted by humwha

lol all of a sudden im a carebear for saying that theres a possible flaw in your game you love without playing.

You assume too much, i like the idea and concept of no mini-map however i think within the first 3 months around there someone will have created a mapping program that tells them where you are maby a month later you will be screaming exploit on the forums cause your geting ganked by people with a advantage over you ;p.

Since its a skill to have a mini map depending on how hard it is to get and how well it works all this might be moot if its a week to get a decent working mini map this prob wont be a problem but if it uses up a skill slot or is in anyway hard to get or maintain this senario will happen.

I also love the logic on  this forum, " YOU DONT LIKE BEING FRUSTRATED LIKE ME BAHHHH GET OUT" and when your alone in 6 months after release going  "bah there no one to gank bah carebears" it will be sad ;(

 

 

Hello overweight guy with self-esteem issues! Inserting degrading comments about yourself where there were none shows a severe lack of respect for yourself. Seriously, get some help.

Nobody ever called you anything, none of us got personal. We all happened to disagree with you and articulated our disagreements. Not our fault if you somehow think people disagreeing with you somehow automatically means they're calling you names. It's like a five year old screaming at their parents because all their parents said was, "No".

Also: Oh Reginald?! I disagree!

Originally posted by Rohn

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by jaspr180

Originally posted by humwha

lol all of a sudden im a carebear for saying that theres a possible flaw in your game you love without playing.

You assume too much, i like the idea and concept of no mini-map however i think within the first 3 months around there someone will have created a mapping program that tells them where you are maby a month later you will be screaming exploit on the forums cause your geting ganked by people with a advantage over you ;p.

Since its a skill to have a mini map depending on how hard it is to get and how well it works all this might be moot if its a week to get a decent working mini map this prob wont be a problem but if it uses up a skill slot or is in anyway hard to get or maintain this senario will happen.

I also love the logic on  this forum, " YOU DONT LIKE BEING FRUSTRATED LIKE ME BAHHHH GET OUT" and when your alone in 6 months after release going  "bah there no one to gank bah carebears" it will be sad ;(

 

 

I dont think anybody was ever calling you a carebear but you keep saying the things we enjoy are "flaws" which is a bit of a insult.  Many of us here have had to go through disappointment after disappointment as we watched our loved games change for "mainstream" tastes.   Most of us might be a little defensive as soon as we see people complain and moan until the games we loved once change into something we no longer recognize.      This is a niche game for a niche crowd, this is the game StarVault wants and its personally the game I want. 

Sure there will be online maps posted of all the in game content before long, but you still will not know where you are on the map as long as the dev's keep coordinates away from 3rd party programs.   I dont care if they go the Blizzard route and install spyware.    Anyway, these are my feelings I hope you see where some of us are coming from. 

 

They probably won't be able to, and map tracking hacks will appear almost immediately. Worse, there's no need for feedback so I suspect it will be mostly undetectable.

We'll have to see how well it works out in practice.  Could be cool, could really suck. Could just force everyone to get the map making skill.  So much for variety of builds.

 

 

 

 

Or, it could make the explorer/cartographer another viable way to play the game, making it more of an actual sandbox game.

If we're going to preemptively level the playing field because of inevitable hacks, then perhaps all characters should be able to fly, have rader, be invisble, run at supersonic speeds, have infinite hit points and stamina, and walk through walls.

I'm guessing the next "flaw" the OP will discover will be the lack of universal banks.  *GASP*

That is kinda important to the whole point im trying to make, you don't want to go to far out of your way just to make sure some people don't exploit your game.

But at the same time just going i hope they don't get frustrated and get a map hack or get a ui that already has maps in it makes the skill useless.

Pretending that it isn't going to happen dosen't help the issue either. there better be some very good incentives to the skill that cant be used in a custom UI.

I know it sounds like im bring down the game im really not i love the crafting and the combat seems very interesting the way it interacts with it just being realistic.

I wouldnt worry about hacks and what not. We still have no idea how much of the game is handled client side. Which the only way hacks work is if you can modify the files on your system or abuse something like NetMon to slow down your internet to the point that you can walk through walls (I've heard of this, not seen it).

So far the Mortal Online devs have repeatedly shown themselves to be extremely bright, professional and they don't really take any BS. I wouldn't be surprised if these guys hacked websites that posted hacks to their game and brought them down, they just strike me as the that type.

In all seriousness though I think these guys won't take shit. If they see people botting or hear people botting they'll ban them, and then probably make fun of them.

PS:

And don't pull the "People said the same thing about AV" crap, because it isn't true. I often see their DEVS answering questions on their official forums. Not community people that don't actually have answers, actual devs that give in-depth responses. These guys are already running events to connect with their community even more. They are continually upfront and straightforward about what they're doing, which is more than most dev teams can say these days.

It its not a flaw.. Is it a good  choice to do? we will see.

As for the person who said if you get looted your not SOL... I think your wrong.. because  you Lose everything you are SOL. can you get cheaper gear? yes  sure But its cheaper gear so your sol with having anything good to wear.

as for MO i will wait and see, im not to excited for it because i hate forced pvp and full loot is just an excuse to gank.

ps: i love how most ppl went from  yay DF!! the game of games just wait and see to... oooh DF  failed to give what they said (told you so by the way),  and now MO is geting the same hype.

I'm assuming that if you can manage to get high enough in crafting, you should be able to make some decent enough gear to put back on if and when you get ganked. I think preparation is key to survival and that the better prepared you are, and the more loose ends you get covered before hand, the better your odds of enjoying a game like this will be, even after getting pk'd.

Originally posted by LordRelic

It its not a flaw.. Is it a good  choice to do? we will see.

 

As for the person who said if you get looted your not SOL... I think your wrong.. because  you Lose everything you are SOL. can you get cheaper gear? yes  sure But its cheaper gear so your sol with having anything good to wear.

as for MO i will wait and see, im not to excited for it because i hate forced pvp and full loot is just an excuse to gank.

 

 

ps: i love how most ppl went from  yay DF!! the game of games just wait and see to... oooh DF  failed to give what they said (told you so by the way),  and now MO is geting the same hype.

The devs have said repeatedly that gear will not be difficult to get your hands on. If you don't have some coin stored in a bank or in your house or something and you go out in your most expensive stuff then you deserve to be screwed.

If you have concerns about it then go ask the devs on the forums, the chances are they'll respond if they haven't already to someone else.

I guess the mantra, 'Don't wear what you can't afford to lose' will hold true ;)  Looks like there are some good fundamental mechanics in this game.  The lack of an in-game map is a feature that creates more interest for me rather than turns me away.  If they can do that without it being capable of rampant exploitation it just ticks one more box on my checklist of great MMO features.  Memories of training up the mapping skill in Crusaders of the Dark Savant come flooding back :)

In the early days of EQ and DAOC before maps it was a source of pride that I never got lost. I rarely printed out maps unless I was farming something.

I won't lie. The day an ingame map was introduced I didn't cry. I just didn't really care. I'm blessed that I have a very good sense of direction and memory. In fact, it has helped me with newer games in the fact that I don't have to get lost first to find my way. I don't care if a game has a map or not. It just means I get lost the first time, or I download something off the internet.

I wouldn't call it a flaw as it is closer to a bad game design choice.   A plain map (showing water and land ) that is uncovered while you explore is about as basic as it should get.   It would be great if it would be possible to add marks / lines or worked a bit like gps ( saved your traveling path ).   If people want to " map make " they should get off their fat ass and do some adventuring irl. 

All these carebear " hardcores " that can't take a little sun.  

I think it's hillarious that you think getting lost in a MMORPG world somehow equates to a flaw.  It is really sad actually.  MMORPG theme parks like WoW with crap telling you where to go every step of the way is a joke and it is the exact oppossite of what this genre is capable of and where it could go.  The WoW formula has reached it's max, and can go no further.  All they can do is rehash the same single player crap in an MMO over and over again and change up the end game to try to get subs.

Think freedom and less running on a wheel with a cookie tied on a string just out of reach.

...  Ok done ranting.  I think that the devs have stated multiple times that there are wide open areas because there will be freely placed player housing, and player cities.  I know crazy right?  Too much freedom.  The cities should be linked by linear paths that you outlevel and never return to as you go through the game.  Why would there be open areas and player made content allowed in the world?  That just doesn't make sense.  Damn I started ranting again.  Anyway you make me a sad panda.

Originally posted by humwha

Well i consider it a flaw and im kinda worryed it might be  somthing that continues threwout the game.

From the review

"At one point, I broke off from the group to do a little solo exploring, and I quickly realized that I had no idea where I was. For me it was a really unique experience in an MMO because there was no radar in the upper corner showing me where I was on the map. There was no arrow pointing the way to go. I was actually lost, which made for a truly immersive experience, and this was only on the tiny test island we were placed on. I can only imagine what the immersion of being lost in a much larger and inhabited world would be like."

Ah somthing that looks neat on paper but flawed to the core.

Anyone remeber the reason they added minimap's to the game or playing before them?

They added them because of the inconvience factor of geting lost all the time and while you may think "aww noobs get worryed about being lost" There was a more balanced issue of giving them to everyone because that info is always feed to the client kinda has to be, and  people used custom ui to get maps and track other players.

So your enemy knew where you were and you did not, a giant issue.   So rather than give 1 side a advantage they gave it too everyone. Even tho people can still do it with having a mini-map casual players won't do it,  but a causal player will hunt for somthing like a mini map for the convenance and take the tracking as a bonus if you don't give it to them.

Issues like this in the name of being hardcore and not paying attention to the past does not give me hope for this game.

Some other flaws I found.

There will not be a good vs evil side in the PVP

The Races will not be good (Human, Elves, Dwarves, Gnomes) vs Horde (Tauren, Orcs, Trolls, Undead)

The classes will not be Mage, Rogue, Paladin, Warrior, Priest, Shaman

You will not be able to fly griffins on pre-determined flight paths between the capital cities and the quest camps

There will be no ! to indicate where quests are.

I am sure there are others, but this is just a few I noticed.

I will just use one of the map hacks that will be available within a few days.

If I have 2 hours to play I am not going to spend it aimlessly walking around trying to find my way back to camp so I can do something. If some people want to play like that, its no problem. Its not for me though

I have no idea what policy they have when it comes to add-ons and stuff like that. If they are against it and got some decent designs/programs to prevent/detect it, then it can probably work well with this design.

Originally posted by madeux

Mapmaking will be a skill.  You'll be able to learn areas, but the first time you go there you'll be completely lost.

I kinda like it.

It seems to me that you're just searching for an issue so you can't dislike the game. 

Until maps are put online to help people. Which doesnt' take very long for a community to produce.

Originally posted by kazamx

I will just use one of the map hacks that will be available within a few days.

 

If I have 2 hours to play I am not going to spend it aimlessly walking around trying to find my way back to camp so I can do something. If some people want to play like that, its no problem. Its not for me though

Maybe the games not for you?  If you have to cheat to enjoy it?  To make it more casual and easier?  Maybe one of the many other games that is out will suit you better??  Have you tried World of Warcraft?  I heard it is fun, and they have maps and thangs.

Originally posted by mrw0lf

More like a 'fog of war' thing that is only in place the first ime you go somewhere? That would not have any great advantages to modding other than the first few weeks, not worth the time I would have thought. The feature to me does sound good but I do see the caustion of the OP if it were a permanant thing.

It is a VERY old feature done in old 2d rpg games."IF" it is like a fog setup,then it really is no biggie,since the effect is gone ,once you visit the area.It does not really add ANY realism because if you were in a huge world,you could easily forget an area,visiting it only once,heck maybe even several visits,you could forget an area.For 99% of people,stick them in a forest and they would get lost EVERYTIME if not for markings on trees or something to find their way out.

I do like the idea of mapping skills,but i would like to see it done in a QUALITY fashion,not as this poster mentions,merely a fog setup.I do not like any TRACKING idea on any map or minimap.I quit playing COD4 because everyone has radar and knows where everyone is,it ruins the idea of sneaking around and trying to move with any stealth,it basically takes away from realism,and fun.In these MMORPG games,MOST are set in the past,there should be no such thing as radar at all.I understand there is radar in real life modern days,but for games it ruins the fun.

Think no further than a highly used "CHEAT" in FPS games,it is the "radar" that they use along with aimbots,so yes the radar does in fact ruin a game badly.So like i said,if they want to implement "map making" as a skill,then make the player EARN it,do it with quality,so it does not become too simple to utilize.

Originally posted by ProfRed

Maybe the games not for you?  If you have to cheat to enjoy it?  To make it more casual and easier?  Maybe one of the many other games that is out will suit you better??  Have you tried World of Warcraft?  I heard it is fun, and they have maps and thangs.

LOL,

Like I said, I have no problem if you want to spend hours walking around lost. Thats fine. I am just not going to take part in that side of the game. If I have two hours to play I see no point in being lost and spending my two hours running around trying to get home.

If you find running around doing nothing for many hours at a time fun, then thats cool. In fact I am sure many game developers will love you. There is no need to create any content, they just need to let you run around in circles.

Um you dont have to get lost in the game its a choice like anything else. Just follow the beaten path wherever you wana go get off to kill a few mobs if you want. Dont see where the fun is in that either though atleast when you get lost there will be things to explore.  Which I think is one of the most important things when makeing a MMO exploreing the new world your in.

If games like Eye of the beholder were fun without a map and minimap this should work too.

I am sure that someone will make a program that works as a map for the lazy people however.

But it does of course depend on how easy you can recognise where you are by looking on the terrain, old Bards tale 2 had the issue that you got lost all the time because most places looked the same.

But it is no big issue for me, I use a map if it is in the game, because I am slightly lazy also, but if it's not in I just have to learn the old fashion way.

I like the fact that there is no radar especially in a game with real stealth and none of this models vanishing crap, basically my point of view is people that can't handle a game without a map will be easy pickings for people with the will to conquer their weakness that present day MMO's give them, I used to like WoW only for its end content because it could be a challenge especially Naxx pre BC, than all the new expansions started coming out and it was a watered down carebear breeding ground. Some of the best clans on some servers were able to beat all content with like 6 good players rest were just there for the ride, and thats the reason I no longer play the game.

So yes people that want a map my words to you is either go play any of the other new MMO's coming out like Aion and have everything handed to you, or come to MO and quit after a few weeks because you just can't handle it or get banned for trying to hack the game by using 3rd person map programs.

Oh and btw MO isn't the first game to have a Cartography skill.

to me it means guilds/clans will spend time in learning the layout of the land around their settlements/base of operations and employ scouts.  I hardly see that as a bad feature.  Also it allows for secret dungeons and locations to remain secret for a lot longer than in most games.

I remember in early single player RPG's (back in the 80's) they purposely tried to get you lost, provided no mapping features, and you spent most of your time mapping the game on graph paper.

No one thinks it would be a good idea to go back to that.

Not sure this will prove to be true in this case either, however we'll see when its released how it goes.

I see it as a fashion trend, clothes designs that were popular in the 70s are now back in fashion. Same with minimaps and radars, yes there were reasons to introduce them in to games but now we want the old feeling back, it may mnot last but hey, lets see what happens.