Mortal Online Forum » General Discussion » You will be PKed and griefed until you quit the game, again

Originally posted by andmiller

Originally posted by -Zeno-

Just like every other hardcore game you have tried.

You cried when you got tank rushed in Red Alert.

You created Trammel.

You ruined Mordred.

You quit Shadowbane at release.

You quit AoC after seeing their patches and community.

You laughed at Darkfall for trying.

You made fun of EVE online because it is a space game.

Why try another hardcore game?

 

Wow...another DF and it's players are the hardest post.  Nice.  Another carebears beware post.

I wish DF players wouldn't even mention Shadowbane.  So that us Shadowbane vets don't have to be lumped in with you guys.......

 

I guess I don't understand.  Since players like you are so obviously hardcore and dominant, wouldn't you want the legions of carebear wusses to play with you so you can slaughter them?  Why try to "scare" them away with your tough talk?

 

 

I dunno I lived through UO and loved it... I was actually sad when Trammel came and I wasn't what one would call a pvp guy at the time.

I mean I logged into UO thinking "hey its Ultima... online... I can play Ultima with other people"... I lived in a very rural part of Vermont and you couldn't play D&D as there was no one around.  When the gold box games came out for the C64 I could at least play D&D...

So I thought of UO as the ability to do this with other people.

Needless to say I got pwnd pretty fast in UO but I adapted and got revenge.

The issue I see with the OP is this...

Trammel didn't happen because someone posted a bunch of whines on a forum.  Trammel happened because in 1998 when EQ launched with NO forced pvp... UO lost most of its population.

Murder system... stat loss etc were attempts by developers to stop the blood loss.  They finally created Trammel and after they launched AoS (launch was so bad I finally quit)... They actually hit their peak population.

When Pirates of the Burning Sea launched... the same guys who were chasing down miners (who had no fighting skills in uo) and their pack mules... started in the same stupid crap there.  When the masses hit the cancel button... that game started to see changes too.

The issue isn't someone being "hard core"... the issue is people who destroy the very games they claim to enjoy... then go cry on forums because "nobody is making a pvp game /whine whine whine sob sob..."

Its kinda ironic.. and fairly funny.. until you watch them destroy a game you wanted to take part in.

"You will be griefed and told to quit daily.. until you do quit and the developers try to change the game because the minority of asshats can't pay the bills..."

that's what the title of this thread should be.  I actually feel bad for the people who want to take part in a pvp world.. they are the ones that really suffer from this.

I personally don't think you can split "PKing" and "PvP" into separate catagories. The thing is that random pking is one of the aspects of PvP, and griefing is just PKing taken to an extreme. I like the option to randomly kill someone if I want, it is one of the perks of open PvP. People will complain "Oh no, you're killing someone just for the enjoyment of it..." but isn't that sort of the fundamental idea behind a PvP based game, letting people log onto a vitual world and duke it out? The problem really comes from high levels killing low levels, and people griefing other people because they enjoy pissing them off. But if MO can find a way to minimize this without taking away from the zone free, life like feel of the game, it wont be a big issue. The fact is, its fun being a random PK, and random PK's belong (that is if they dont kill lowbies and grief just to be a jerk). If a random pk picks a fair fight whats wrong with that? Hes got every right and i dont think it should be condoned unless it becomes excessive.

Originally posted by anomaly_a

I personally don't think you can split "PKing" and "PvP" into separate catagories. The thing is that random pking is one of the aspects of PvP, and griefing is just PKing taken to an extreme. I like the option to randomly kill someone if I want, it is one of the perks of open PvP. People will complain "Oh no, you're killing someone just for the enjoyment of it..." but isn't that sort of the fundamental idea behind a PvP based game, letting people log onto a vitual world and duke it out? The problem really comes from high levels killing low levels, and people griefing other people because they enjoy pissing them off. But if MO can find a way to minimize this without taking away from the zone free, life like feel of the game, it wont be a big issue. The fact is, its fun being a random PK, and random PK's belong (that is if they dont kill lowbies and grief just to be a jerk). If a random pk picks a fair fight whats wrong with that? Hes got every right and i dont think it should be condoned unless it becomes excessive.

From what I understand, you will be able to do the above in the game.

You won't be able to do it without limits however, which is how MO is going to minimize the negative impact of griefers.

Quick question: Generally speaking, do you find killing a player in an MMO to be more satisfying than killing a player in an FPS?

When will the so called hardcore pk'er crowd realise that they're the ones that bitch and moan more than the so called carbears? Almost every post I've read from one of you idiots is whining about the implentation of any rules that might hinder your playstyle of "grief, grief, pk and pk"

You want to pk and grief all day? Fine, but live with the consequences, and if you can't handle any consequesnces for basically playing a sociopathic killer then you're a long, long way from "hardcore".

These games are NOT designed solely with you morons in mind, they're designed for people who want to have a structured world to play in, with pvp and player killing as a PART of it, not the be all and end all. If we wanted that then we'd all play CS and be done with it.

Jesus why do you think there's been a lack of ffa/pvp mmo's on the market for so long? Because they're usually not that succsessful, because they're populated with you "hardcore pk'er" fuckwits. (As an aside I think that anyone who describes themselves as "hardcore" for playing a COMPUTER game is a human joke)

FFA pvp is just a facet of MO, so get over it. If there weren't loads of other things to do in-game then you idiots would have another empty server full of people fighting naked so you didn't lose anything (because you're so "hardcore")

Creeping Jesus, you people are a laughing stock.

Originally posted by Variant13

When will the so called hardcore pk'er crowd realise that they're the ones that bitch and moan more than the so called carbears? Almost every post I've read from one of you idiots is whining about the implentation of any rules that might hinder your playstyle of "grief, grief, pk and pk"

You want to pk and grief all day? Fine, but live with the consequences, and if you can't handle any consequesnces for basically playing a sociopathic killer then you're a long, long way from "hardcore".

These games are NOT designed solely with you morons in mind, they're designed for people who want to have a structured world to play in, with pvp and player killing as a PART of it, not the be all and end all. If we wanted that then we'd all play CS and be done with it.

Jesus why do you think there's been a lack of ffa/pvp mmo's on the market for so long? Because they're usually not that succsessful, because they're populated with you "hardcore pk'er" fuckwits. (As an aside I think that anyone who describes themselves as "hardcore" for playing a COMPUTER game is a human joke)

FFA pvp is just a facet of MO, so get over it. If there weren't loads of other things to do in-game then you idiots would have another empty server full of people fighting naked so you didn't lose anything (because you're so "hardcore")

Creeping Jesus, you people are a laughing stock.

Agree 100%.  The "hardcore" internet tough guys definitely cry the loudest.

MO is not a PvP game.  It's a sandbox MMO, that will have FFA PvP as part of the gameplay.  It's an enormous difference.

Originally posted by Variant13

When will the so called hardcore pk'er crowd realise that they're the ones that bitch and moan more than the so called carbears? Almost every post I've read from one of you idiots is whining about the implentation of any rules that might hinder your playstyle of "grief, grief, pk and pk"

You want to pk and grief all day? Fine, but live with the consequences, and if you can't handle any consequesnces for basically playing a sociopathic killer then you're a long, long way from "hardcore".

These games are NOT designed solely with you morons in mind, they're designed for people who want to have a structured world to play in, with pvp and player killing as a PART of it, not the be all and end all. If we wanted that then we'd all play CS and be done with it.

Jesus why do you think there's been a lack of ffa/pvp mmo's on the market for so long? Because they're usually not that succsessful, because they're populated with you "hardcore pk'er" fuckwits. (As an aside I think that anyone who describes themselves as "hardcore" for playing a COMPUTER game is a human joke)

FFA pvp is just a facet of MO, so get over it. If there weren't loads of other things to do in-game then you idiots would have another empty server full of people fighting naked so you didn't lose anything (because you're so "hardcore")

Creeping Jesus, you people are a laughing stock.

Could not agree more. I get really annoyed with these so called hardcores. You want to be tough go into law enforcement or join the military then come back and tell me how bad you are. We all know women love a man in uniform nobody loves the geek who can kill pixels.

Originally posted by andmiller

Originally posted by -Zeno-

Just like every other hardcore game you have tried.

You cried when you got tank rushed in Red Alert.

You created Trammel.

You ruined Mordred.

You quit Shadowbane at release.

You quit AoC after seeing their patches and community.

You laughed at Darkfall for trying.

You made fun of EVE online because it is a space game.

Why try another hardcore game?

 

Wow...another DF and it's players are the hardest post.  Nice.  Another carebears beware post.

I wish DF players wouldn't even mention Shadowbane.  So that us Shadowbane vets don't have to be lumped in with you guys.......

 

I guess I don't understand.  Since players like you are so obviously hardcore and dominant, wouldn't you want the legions of carebear wusses to play with you so you can slaughter them?  Why try to "scare" them away with your tough talk?

 

 

I actually consider myself a pre-trammel Ultama Online player that has seen people flock away from all of the hardcore games.  Except one, the blues ruined Mordred by actually playing it, with their level 20's.

Its amusing that everyone immidiatly places the players you dislike into the "DF" group.  Following the corwd, just like good little sheep.  You won't last in MO.

Originally posted by karat76

Originally posted by Variant13

When will the so called hardcore pk'er crowd realise that they're the ones that bitch and moan more than the so called carbears? Almost every post I've read from one of you idiots is whining about the implentation of any rules that might hinder your playstyle of "grief, grief, pk and pk"

You want to pk and grief all day? Fine, but live with the consequences, and if you can't handle any consequesnces for basically playing a sociopathic killer then you're a long, long way from "hardcore".

These games are NOT designed solely with you morons in mind, they're designed for people who want to have a structured world to play in, with pvp and player killing as a PART of it, not the be all and end all. If we wanted that then we'd all play CS and be done with it.

Jesus why do you think there's been a lack of ffa/pvp mmo's on the market for so long? Because they're usually not that succsessful, because they're populated with you "hardcore pk'er" fuckwits. (As an aside I think that anyone who describes themselves as "hardcore" for playing a COMPUTER game is a human joke)

FFA pvp is just a facet of MO, so get over it. If there weren't loads of other things to do in-game then you idiots would have another empty server full of people fighting naked so you didn't lose anything (because you're so "hardcore")

Creeping Jesus, you people are a laughing stock.

Could not agree more. I get really annoyed with these so called hardcores. You want to be tough go into law enforcement or join the military then come back and tell me how bad you are. We all know women love a man in uniform nobody loves the geek who can kill pixels.

I'm hoping that we can temper this with a large guild presence... kinda provide some order, punish griefers, etc.

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by karat76

Originally posted by Variant13

When will the so called hardcore pk'er crowd realise that they're the ones that bitch and moan more than the so called carbears? Almost every post I've read from one of you idiots is whining about the implentation of any rules that might hinder your playstyle of "grief, grief, pk and pk"

You want to pk and grief all day? Fine, but live with the consequences, and if you can't handle any consequesnces for basically playing a sociopathic killer then you're a long, long way from "hardcore".

These games are NOT designed solely with you morons in mind, they're designed for people who want to have a structured world to play in, with pvp and player killing as a PART of it, not the be all and end all. If we wanted that then we'd all play CS and be done with it.

Jesus why do you think there's been a lack of ffa/pvp mmo's on the market for so long? Because they're usually not that succsessful, because they're populated with you "hardcore pk'er" fuckwits. (As an aside I think that anyone who describes themselves as "hardcore" for playing a COMPUTER game is a human joke)

FFA pvp is just a facet of MO, so get over it. If there weren't loads of other things to do in-game then you idiots would have another empty server full of people fighting naked so you didn't lose anything (because you're so "hardcore")

Creeping Jesus, you people are a laughing stock.

Could not agree more. I get really annoyed with these so called hardcores. You want to be tough go into law enforcement or join the military then come back and tell me how bad you are. We all know women love a man in uniform nobody loves the geek who can kill pixels.

 

I'm hoping that we can temper this with a large guild presence... kinda provide some order, punish griefers, etc.

Some of the griefer guilds number in the thousands of members.  Blood in AC, as an example.

PK !=Griefing. PK is the very mechanic that makes a PvP game PvP-- the ability to kill a fellow player. There's nothing wrong with PK. There's everything in the world about griefing. You want to grief? Fine. Grief away until, as a previous poster so succinctly put it, you're left with nothing but a server full of naked lowbies.

I'm just curious. When did it become okay for the FPS crowd to come in and take over our genre? I thought RPGs represented the more intelligent, admittedly geeky, but overall reasonable crowd who just want to enjoy a little escapism in a fantasy world that DOESN'T necessarily involve 24/7 mindless killing and LOLOLOLOLO I TBAGGED U N00B!!!

Seriously, guys, there needs to be some kind of nerd uprising and a retaking of our baby. Who's with me? Wave yer pocket protectors in the air! 

Madeux I hope you are right baout people getting together in anti griefing guilds but I think the MMo community today is not made up of the same decent people from UO. At least in UO you could usually get some people together to smack the griefers around for being oxygen thieves. I just have serious doubt if the mmo community of today is anything more than the virtual equivalent of a violent prison population always looking out for the fresh meat.

You can melee a Big Daddy to death with no bad consequence in Bioshock.

You created no hand kills in COD4.

You ruined TF2.

You play WoW to achieve what everyone else has.

You quit FFXI after the Japanese players wouldn't give you free handouts.

You laugh at UO's bad graphics and pass it off as a bad game for that reason.

You made fun of EVE online because there is no clear goal after the tutorial.

Why do you continue to encourage companies to pump out easy clones of other games?

Originally posted by gimmeapenny

You can melee a Big Daddy to death with no bad consequence in Bioshock.

You created no hand kills in COD4.

You ruined TF2.

You play WoW to achieve what everyone else has.

You quit FFXI after the Japanese players wouldn't give you free handouts.

You laugh at UO's bad graphics and pass it off as a bad game for that reason.

You made fun of EVE online because there is no clear goal after the tutorial.

Why do you continue to encourage companies to pump out easy clones of other games?

I just want to scam tough guy PK guilds like I did in Eve.  I want to make Guilds suffer through the betrayal of my trust.  Ha, I am a corp theif and I want to make internet tough guys cry as I steal their virtual property and sell it off to the highest bidder.

Originally posted by -Zeno-

Originally posted by andmiller

Originally posted by -Zeno-

Just like every other hardcore game you have tried.

You cried when you got tank rushed in Red Alert.

You created Trammel.

You ruined Mordred.

You quit Shadowbane at release.

You quit AoC after seeing their patches and community.

You laughed at Darkfall for trying.

You made fun of EVE online because it is a space game.

Why try another hardcore game?

 

Wow...another DF and it's players are the hardest post.  Nice.  Another carebears beware post.

I wish DF players wouldn't even mention Shadowbane.  So that us Shadowbane vets don't have to be lumped in with you guys.......

 

I guess I don't understand.  Since players like you are so obviously hardcore and dominant, wouldn't you want the legions of carebear wusses to play with you so you can slaughter them?  Why try to "scare" them away with your tough talk?

 

 

 

I actually consider myself a pre-trammel Ultama Online player that has seen people flock away from all of the hardcore games.  Except one, the blues ruined Mordred by actually playing it, with their level 20's.

Its amusing that everyone immidiatly places the players you dislike into the "DF" group.  Following the corwd, just like good little sheep.  You won't last in MO.

You see that part there I underlined? I hate it when people use that stupid cliche', because the only reason they use it is because they heard some villian say it during a cheesy monologue and they think it will make them sound like an awesome loner. I'm sorry to say it doesn't.

The statement "You won't last in MO" also loses any credibility whatsoever, because the way you present the statement makes it seem like you're implying that Mortal Online will be a frag-fest only for the most stalwart and skilled of the hardcore, and that you are awesome enough to judge who will and won't 'cut it'. Since other people have already done an adequate job of proving you are not awesome, I'll move on and say that MO is a game, and that's all it is. 

If someone plays a game like MO or DarkFall, dislikes it and then quits, It doesn't mean that person lacks fortitude or worth, although I'm sure you wish it were that way.  All it means is that said person found thier gaming experience unfufilling and moved on. Nothing more, nothing less.

Originally posted by Variant13

When will the so called hardcore pk'er crowd realise that they're the ones that bitch and moan more than the so called carbears? Almost every post I've read from one of you idiots is whining about the implentation of any rules that might hinder your playstyle of "grief, grief, pk and pk"

You want to pk and grief all day? Fine, but live with the consequences, and if you can't handle any consequesnces for basically playing a sociopathic killer then you're a long, long way from "hardcore".

These games are NOT designed solely with you morons in mind, they're designed for people who want to have a structured world to play in, with pvp and player killing as a PART of it, not the be all and end all. If we wanted that then we'd all play CS and be done with it.

Jesus why do you think there's been a lack of ffa/pvp mmo's on the market for so long? Because they're usually not that succsessful, because they're populated with you "hardcore pk'er" fuckwits. (As an aside I think that anyone who describes themselves as "hardcore" for playing a COMPUTER game is a human joke)

FFA pvp is just a facet of MO, so get over it. If there weren't loads of other things to do in-game then you idiots would have another empty server full of people fighting naked so you didn't lose anything (because you're so "hardcore")

Creeping Jesus, you people are a laughing stock.

well said

Originally posted by DarkRexx

Originally posted by -Zeno-

Originally posted by andmiller

Originally posted by -Zeno-

Just like every other hardcore game you have tried.

You cried when you got tank rushed in Red Alert.

You created Trammel.

You ruined Mordred.

You quit Shadowbane at release.

You quit AoC after seeing their patches and community.

You laughed at Darkfall for trying.

You made fun of EVE online because it is a space game.

Why try another hardcore game?

 

Wow...another DF and it's players are the hardest post.  Nice.  Another carebears beware post.

I wish DF players wouldn't even mention Shadowbane.  So that us Shadowbane vets don't have to be lumped in with you guys.......

 

I guess I don't understand.  Since players like you are so obviously hardcore and dominant, wouldn't you want the legions of carebear wusses to play with you so you can slaughter them?  Why try to "scare" them away with your tough talk?

 

 

 

I actually consider myself a pre-trammel Ultama Online player that has seen people flock away from all of the hardcore games.  Except one, the blues ruined Mordred by actually playing it, with their level 20's.

Its amusing that everyone immidiatly places the players you dislike into the "DF" group.  Following the corwd, just like good little sheep.  You won't last in MO.

 

You see that part there I underlined? I hate it when people use that stupid cliche', because the only reason they use it is because they heard some villian say it during a cheesy monologue and they think it will make them sound like an awesome loner. I'm sorry to say it doesn't.

The statement "You won't last in MO" also loses any credibility whatsoever, because the way you present the statement makes it seem like you're implying that Mortal Online will be a frag-fest only for the most stalwart and skilled of the hardcore, and that you are awesome enough to judge who will and won't 'cut it'. Since other people have already done an adequate job of proving you are not awesome, I'll move on and say that MO is a game, and that's all it is. 

If someone plays a game like MO or DarkFall, dislikes it and then quits, It doesn't mean that person lacks fortitude or worth, although I'm sure you wish it were that way.  All it means is that said person found thier gaming experience unfufilling and moved on. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

   

 

I played a Great Lord in Ultama Online for months after it was added to the game.  I was repeatedly pked and griefed to the point I almost quit.  What saved me from quitting was saying screw it, and started pking players and became a Dread Lord, best decision ever.  How many players said screw it and quit?  Enough to have trammel created, and eventually World of Warcraft.  There are few wolves and plenty of sheep.  Thats why WoW has 11 million players and MO will just be another pvp niche game.

MO will go in the direction of UO pre-trammel, DAoC Mordred, Shadowbane, AoC, and DF.  Niche game that will only retain 40% of its player base or less.  Hell AoC just hit less than 10% of its players (that purchsed the game).

So I will repeat: You, reading this, will quit MO.  I give you 3 months max, most likely you will be gone within a week.

Originally posted by -Zeno-

Originally posted by DarkRexx

Originally posted by -Zeno-

Originally posted by andmiller

Originally posted by -Zeno-

Just like every other hardcore game you have tried.

You cried when you got tank rushed in Red Alert.

You created Trammel.

You ruined Mordred.

You quit Shadowbane at release.

You quit AoC after seeing their patches and community.

You laughed at Darkfall for trying.

You made fun of EVE online because it is a space game.

Why try another hardcore game?

 

Wow...another DF and it's players are the hardest post.  Nice.  Another carebears beware post.

I wish DF players wouldn't even mention Shadowbane.  So that us Shadowbane vets don't have to be lumped in with you guys.......

 

I guess I don't understand.  Since players like you are so obviously hardcore and dominant, wouldn't you want the legions of carebear wusses to play with you so you can slaughter them?  Why try to "scare" them away with your tough talk?

 

 

 

I actually consider myself a pre-trammel Ultama Online player that has seen people flock away from all of the hardcore games.  Except one, the blues ruined Mordred by actually playing it, with their level 20's.

Its amusing that everyone immidiatly places the players you dislike into the "DF" group.  Following the corwd, just like good little sheep.  You won't last in MO.

 

You see that part there I underlined? I hate it when people use that stupid cliche', because the only reason they use it is because they heard some villian say it during a cheesy monologue and they think it will make them sound like an awesome loner. I'm sorry to say it doesn't.

The statement "You won't last in MO" also loses any credibility whatsoever, because the way you present the statement makes it seem like you're implying that Mortal Online will be a frag-fest only for the most stalwart and skilled of the hardcore, and that you are awesome enough to judge who will and won't 'cut it'. Since other people have already done an adequate job of proving you are not awesome, I'll move on and say that MO is a game, and that's all it is. 

If someone plays a game like MO or DarkFall, dislikes it and then quits, It doesn't mean that person lacks fortitude or worth, although I'm sure you wish it were that way.  All it means is that said person found thier gaming experience unfufilling and moved on. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

   

 

 

I played a Great Lord in Ultama Online for months after it was added to the game.  I was repeatedly pked and griefed to the point I almost quit.  What saved me from quitting was saying screw it, and started pking players and became a Dread Lord, best decision ever.  How many players said screw it and quit?  Enough to have trammel created, and eventually World of Warcraft.  There are few wolves and plenty of sheep.  Thats why WoW has 11 million players and MO will just be another pvp niche game.

MO will go in the direction of UO pre-trammel, DAoC Mordred, Shadowbane, AoC, and DF.  Niche game that will only retain 40% of its player base or less.  Hell AoC just hit less than 10% of its players (that purchsed the game).

So I will repeat: You, reading this, will quit MO.  I give you 3 months max, most likely you will be gone within a week.

 

That's a reasonable prediction, and is taken much better without the bluster of your original post. Still, it remains to be seen. If MO has a goal of maintaining say 100,000 subscriptions to be profitable, I'm willing to bet 100,000 people will be willing to face the dangers of a FFA PVP game. It still all boils down to the community at large and what they make of the game. It's going to be anarchy at first, but once large guilds establish themselves, some form of player-establish system of law and order emerges, and decent roleplayers start forming, acting out, and spreading some kind of compelling narrative in the game, stability will come. Hopefully, at least. 

Myself, I don't mind being ganked here and there. Comes with the territory. However, if senseless griefing becomes the norm, the only fun will be had by the predators. I'm quite certain there aren't enough griefing asstards out there to sustain a profitible game, so hopefully people will be reasonable.

Note that reasonable does not equal carebear. Kill me, take my loot, and hell, teabag me if that's how you get your jollies. Just do your thing and then move on to the next guy, or I'm going to be forced to decide if my $15 per month is worth having to constantly deal with assholes.

EDIT: That last part is just a general statement, and not directed solely at you, -Zeno-

Originally posted by -Zeno-

MO will go in the direction of UO pre-trammel, DAoC Mordred, Shadowbane, AoC, and DF.  Niche game that will only retain 40% of its player base or less.  Hell AoC just hit less than 10% of its players (that purchsed the game).

So I will repeat: You, reading this, will quit MO.  I give you 3 months max, most likely you will be gone within a week.

 

When you use phrases like "you ruined",  "you cried" etc. , it sounds like your intend is to mock/blame the players who quit the game or the players who never tried the game in the first place.   If games can't retain players, is that the fault of the players or the game?  Are you trying to send the message that  people will ruin the game or that there are alot of people who THINK they will enjoy the game but won't like  a PVP-centric game once they actually experience it?  If it's the latter, just say so, without the bluster.  You could just say that it will suffer "the mordred problem", just like Darkfall, and leave it at that.  http://brokentoys.org/2009/02/19/the-mordred-problem/

That being said, Mortal Online will have a flagging and stat-loss system similar to pre-trammel UO.  The intent is to allow open PVP but discourage PVP that is non-consensual. Will that be enough? Only time will tell on that one.

If a game impliments open PVP but has a system in check that actually  makes PKing or griefing damned hard to do - you know, adds a bit of realism in other words - I'm fine with it.

What I hate are the games where the PKers can run around ganking whoever they want wherever they want without any consequence at all. That requires no skill, it's not hardcore, it's not a challenge... well, not any more than it would be for a full grown adult to give a 5 year old a black eye.

If this game has a ruleset in place that will really m ake you stop and think "Hm...do I want to kill this random newbie here and risk getting slaughtered by the guards and/or any other PCs that see me red flagged as a PKer? Or do I just want to go on my way?"  Far more interesting gameplay if you ask me. Your actions against others would actually have real consequences and meaning without it just being a grief and camp fest.

Let's these carebears cry and left, who cares, they arent' so important. Ia a niche game for people who like FFA/PVP and full loot specifically, there is no space left for wow crybabies bored of their grindfest themepark.

Originally posted by -Zeno-

Just like every other hardcore game you have tried.

You cried when you got tank rushed in Red Alert.

You created Trammel.

You ruined Mordred.

You quit Shadowbane at release.

You quit AoC after seeing their patches and community.

You laughed at Darkfall for trying.

You made fun of EVE online because it is a space game.

Why try another hardcore game?

This post doesnt rly make any sence to me...

Whats so hardcore about Red Alert.. its not even an mmo >.<

Never played UO but I guess this part is rational

Mordred?

I heard Shadowbane was very shit at release, thats why it became free.

Whats so hardcore bout AoC and its community and patches... its pretty much a themepark mmo with some gore?

I didnt laugh at Darkfall for trying... I cried.

This is true, I do laugh at EvE because I hate spaceships..

So... Why not?

Originally posted by -Zeno-

Just like every other hardcore game you have tried.

You cried when you got tank rushed in Red Alert.

You created Trammel.

You ruined Mordred.

You quit Shadowbane at release.

You quit AoC after seeing their patches and community.

You laughed at Darkfall for trying.

You made fun of EVE online because it is a space game.

Why try another hardcore game?

Thats why they have Counterstrike & Battlefield ....!

Every MMORPG since Everquest/Ashron's Call has been softcore... as even these games have gone softcore themselves in hopes of grabbing the -Zeno- newbie crowd..!

Let me guess, you started playing UO 4 years after it was released.... ~ seems like you've never played a full fledged MMORPG before. There is more to do in a real mmorpg than just combat..!

Let-alone just pvp...  

You know what? You can blame the victim all you want, but anyone who has enough sense to analyze a situation knows that it's the griefers that make policy in PvP change, not the people whose fun you ruin by being an ass.

If MO goes that path, know that it's not the general player's fault or even the REAL hardcore player's fault, its people like YOU who ruin games like this because you feel some sense of achievement from taking advantage of people.

Then when you're sitting there scratching your head and wondering why nobody will log on and let you stab them, you'll only have yourself to blame., and I garuntee that YOU will be the one not playing in three months.

Kinda funny this thread... for all those people who played UO back when it came out, and i mean really think on this, the game was never advertised to be a FFA PVP game, what i find intresting is that MO hasnt said that they are marketing this as a FFA pvp game either. its marketed as a open seemless world made with skills and real life mechanics, im curious where all the sudden people think that just because its a FFA that it automatically makes it a PvP centric game, ever think that maybe its just a virtual world with the same abilities to kill someone in the real world?

Originally posted by -Zeno-

Just like every other hardcore game you have tried.

You cried when you got tank rushed in Red Alert.

You created Trammel.

You ruined Mordred.

You quit Shadowbane at release.

You quit AoC after seeing their patches and community.

You laughed at Darkfall for trying.

You made fun of EVE online because it is a space game.

Why try another hardcore game?

AT LEAST WE WILL ACTUALLY BE ABLE TO BUY THIS GAME HOOOOOOOOOOOO!

MO will go in the direction of UO pre-trammel, DAoC Mordred, Shadowbane, AoC, and DF. Niche game that will only retain 40% of its player base or less. Hell AoC just hit less than 10% of its players (that purchsed the game).

So I will repeat: You, reading this, will quit MO. I give you 3 months max, most likely you will be gone within a week.

Anyway, your main point seems based around these games actually being good. Sorry to tell you but people quite these because they were SHIT, nothing to do with PK. I think I might have been killed 4 times on my way to 80 in AoC on aquilonia. Its just a shit game. Darkfall? Cant even bring my self to insult it, its worse than soulja boy and you know how bad he is? He's so bad he can be mocked using spongebob squarepants videos. THATS FUCKING SHIT! Now mortal, could be actually be a good game, but this is something you like to overlook, you are preparing for it to fail by readying this crazy idea that we are going to quit because of griefers. You dont know very much abut this game do you?