Originally posted by talcott

{mod edit}

Well this kinda sucks. After reading the article about it the other day I was about to give Ryzom a go but after reading post like this I think I'll pass. After reading the OPs post and yours I think I'll go with the OP and just stay clear of the game. Sorry, for someone that just made a mmorpg.com account yesterday talcott, you seem like either A) a rabid fanboy whos here only for the purpose of flaming the OP cause he had the backbone to say something you didnt like, or B) One of these fail CSRs the OP and other posters are talking about in which case proves that the OP and others are right about the issues going on and that you really need to get a life if you guys are dropping down to the level of stalking your playerbase online to try to stamp out any comment you dont like.

Either way its sad cause the game really did seem kinda insteresting but I get enough epic fail community/game/playerbase management from Riot/LoL so I dont need anymore at the time being.

I wonder, UrzaElent, if just reading the rants of the OP would have changed the decision you just made? I doubt so. By giving the game no chance, though, you do exactly what was intented by that posting in the first instance. The game played in forums like this is to find a way to make GMs susceptible to blackmail to get things the way you want. Everybody running a business knows things like this galore: The song played is "Give us money/power/our way or we'll use the Internet/the press to kill you off". That's not a nice attitude, nor a productive one, but somehow pretty human. But then, who said humans are nice? Mark Twain said anything about humanity one needs to know in "The Mysterious Stranger". By your decision, and the reason you give, I'm sad to realise that denunciation is still an instrument that works, for people are willing to fall for it. Freedom, free will is just a nice abstract idea, for as long as denunciation and blackmail works, we all are puppets on the strings of those who use this drug, dancing to their tunes and empty each poisoned chalice given to us by them.

Originally posted by cushing

I wonder, UrzaElent, if just reading the rants of the OP would have changed the decision you just made? I doubt so. By giving the game no chance, though, you do exactly what was intented by that posting in the first instance. The game played in forums like this is to find a way to make GMs susceptible to blackmail to get things the way you want. Everybody running a business knows things like this galore: The song played is "Give us money/power/our way or we'll use the Internet/the press to kill you off". That's not a nice attitude, nor a productive one, but somehow pretty human. But then, who said humans are nice? Mark Twain said anything about humanity one needs to know in "The Mysterious Stranger". By your decision, and the reason you give, I'm sad to realise that denunciation is still an instrument that works, for people are willing to fall for it. Freedom, free will is just a nice abstract idea, for as long as denunciation and blackmail works, we all are puppets on the strings of those who use this drug, dancing to their tunes and empty each poisoned chalice given to us by them.

What I do see is MULTIPLE people posting about the same issues with Ryzom that the OP is having and that all of them are A) been with mmorpg.com for more than ONE day and B) have done thier post  in a civil matter for the most part. Thats two things that I cant say about talcott. I'm sorry but when someone pops up out of the blue on this site and the first thing the do is flame and troll someone that really hasnt done anything to recieve that type of response it get my troll sense going off like a fire alarm .

And like I said I'm a LoL player. I've seen first hand just how fail some companies are with how they handle things like their forums and playerbase. If you think the OP was "ranting" then talcott was a raving pyscho. Sounds like LoL fanboy speak right there, if you dont kiss Riots ass 24/7 then you must be a ranting, QQ, noob. No ty, I'll stand by my gut feeling and just avoid anymore gaming drama for the time being.

Well, I never saw the need to post until now (after 5 years just reading these forums for information). I would not have entered if not for the Leanon (German server) input, which just fits in with the irregular, but popping up from time to time intention to turn the screw on the GMs over here. So I don't know about Asispotle; the relatively short time I played there, I did not have any issues, though.

I can understand, to a certain degree, your fear of fanboy trolling (well, I guess we have nothing seen of that until STAR WARS: THE OLD REPUBLIC starts). The idea of a working community, though, is that there are rules, and everybody tries to either be part of that community or - if it does not fit - to go somewhere else. If I'm a non-smoker, I don't join a Cigar Club and then complain about smoking in the Club's rooms. If I'm a member of a party, I may option for issues which are contrary to the issues it stands for, but if it just doesn't fit, I normally leave the party and try to find one which covers my issues. If the beer in my favorite Pub is not a flavour I like, I either drink something else or seek out another Pub. But I don't harass the smokers for smoking in their rooms, the party for not doing what I alone want them to do (apart from opposing their general course probably - but then normally not as a party member) and the brewery as well as the landlord for not granting my request - or rather my claim. Am I a fanboy? I'm not a fanatic, for sure. But I see rules when there are any, and I can decide if I follow them or not. I won't bend them or try to bend them for my personal purposes. If I can't live with them, I seek out a place with rules more to my taste. Or I stay and follow the principles of a (here commercial) democratic system where rules and laws are set to the welfare of all players, in a general term, for no-one will get rules just working for himself, interfering and destroying the system, the community, and all principles of democracy. Freedom is a general term. Absolute freedom, in which all rules are just your own or fixed to you personal wants, is indeed dictatorship, with the one on top being free and all others not.

Having said that, in 5 or 6 years I never had issues with the Ryzom GM's - neither the old ones (of whom there is at least still one) nor the recent. I never felt the need of writing a ticket, not even when harrassed or insulted or denunciated by some player troll (and you know as well as I that there's always one) and generally, as a role player, I try to fit in with the scenery, be part of the bigger thing by following the rules of the game, the history of the World it's set in and be a breathing, living believable character of that World. And if other players believe in what I'm doing, in the character I play and the strings he pulls within the rules, I'm happy because I did succeed. And in all these years I never played a game where you have that much freedom, where you meet so much enthusiasm and idealism by players and GMs alike. It's not perfect - "Nobody's perfect", according to Billy Wilder - but it is the one game I can do all these things and am neither exiled to some sort of ghetto or squeezed into the usual pretty boring grinding mould. I'm a fanboy in that sense that I love the game. But what's the reason to play a game you don't like at all?

P.S.: "Multiple" makes three, right? The German one you can't count if on Arispotle or the French server. So: Of those three you might call two sort of substantial in actually pointing out a situation. One of the three obviously is a friend or acquaintance of the player starting the thread. Add one who just thinks that the problem is the players (which includes those three arguing about the GM's) and one who once was at Jolt and obviously left when they left and thinks it's sad if the complaints are true, but has no own view on the recent situation.  I know it won't change your gut feeling; but the drama, really, is happening here. ;)

Tis a shame us ex-Jolt people aren't there anymore, might've been able to have changed this before it became a problem :(

I personally know quite a few of the CSR and its saddening to read this stuff, although a select few I can guarantee wouldn't be involved with anthing like this, and a few that alarm bells go off in my head instantly.

Tylantia, from what I read on the Ryzom forums, CSR Lanti from old Jolt days stayed until his death in August 2010 - so it wasn't without Jolt care all the time.

My personal experiences are, of course, from Leanon, where we rather have the problem that we are running out of GMs because of mobbing from a handful of players. We have lost, I think, at least two since last year because of that, and the one still left from the times I joined the game as a player (approximately 5 - 6 years ago) was under heavy attack. What would you have done with that kind of players who doubt everything you do, who doubt every sort of input from the event team, who sabotage every step the player parliaments take? I don't know if you had any kind of similar experience back then, but if you had I would be very interested to learn how you handled this. As far as I'm concerned, I won't apply for CSR or GM even if they would pay me, really. But even as "just" a player, a few times I was close to taking a bow out of the game, although it's the only one in all those years I did enjoy.

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Originally posted by cushing
Tylantia, from what I read on the Ryzom forums, CSR Lanti from old Jolt days stayed until his death in August 2010 - so it wasn't without Jolt care all the time.
My personal experiences are, of course, from Leanon, where we rather have the problem that we are running out of GMs because of mobbing from a handful of players. We have lost, I think, at least two since last year because of that, and the one still left from the times I joined the game as a player (approximately 5 - 6 years ago) was under heavy attack. What would you have done with that kind of players who doubt everything you do, who doubt every sort of input from the event team, who sabotage every step the player parliaments take? I don't know if you had any kind of similar experience back then, but if you had I would be very interested to learn how you handled this. As far as I'm concerned, I won't apply for CSR or GM even if they would pay me, really. But even as "just" a player, a few times I was close to taking a bow out of the game, although it's the only one in all those years I did enjoy.

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I can however tell you 100% that if Jolt were still around they'd be none of the stuff going on today; we never had had any of it back then and anything that'd potentially be heading towards that area, would get squashed immediately :)

I think having a clear "chain of command", weekly meetings, use of security protected chat rooms (outside of CeB) etc helped us no end. We had specific people for specific tasks, but everyone had the basic training for day to day CSR volunteering. For example we could all and did most days, CSR every chance we got. Some of us like myself went on to not only do that but also man the public test server, get that running more smoothly (for patch testing and bug ironing etc) leading to a live events team constantly coming up with alot of roleplay stuff for everyone.

How it is atm from what people have said, you can see that there is no direction, control, heirarchy or even basic structure anymore. I noticed that instantly when I came back as Anuihlm over a year or so ago now. Complete 180 from back in the "olden days" hehe.

I do still hope that it somehow gets to carry on, but this CSR stuff has to change if its to even show a glimmer of hope now.

Ryzom fascinates, like playing it, some staff people seem ok but seems staff would need more professionalism. Some more player information here.

Originally posted by Tylantia

Tis a shame us ex-Jolt people aren't there anymore, might've been able to have changed this before it became a problem :(

I personally know quite a few of the CSR and its saddening to read this stuff, although a select few I can guarantee wouldn't be involved with anthing like this, and a few that alarm bells go off in my head instantly.

Hey Secor!

Wasn't the jolt crew taken over because jolt dropped out?

Deillon/Ligandel

Originally posted by Guddrin

Ryzom fascinates, like playing it, some staff people seem ok but seems staff would need more professionalism. Some more player information here.

The information the reference sounded serious, at least for someone outside and not much involved people, till the paragraph for the char Nitrous and the praise of him. I have witnessed myself how the char Nitrouss has perma stalking peeps ingame with tells and how he has  driven people away with his behaviour. It can't be excused  with roleplay because it was permanent stalking in private tells  24/7 so to speak even with RL threats.

Knowing this i am not sure about the validity of the other information in this blog entry and i have to question it at least.

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Originally posted by Guddrin

Ryzom fascinates, like playing it, some staff people seem ok but seems staff would need more professionalism. Some more player information here.

The information the reference sounded serious, at least for someone outside and not much involved people, till the paragraph for the char Nitrous and the praise of him. I have witnessed myself how the char Nitrouss has perma stalking peeps ingame with tells and how he has  driven people away with his behaviour. It can't be excused  with roleplay because it was permanent stalking in private tells  24/7 so to speak even with RL threats.

Knowing this i am not sure about the validity of the other information in this blog entry and i have to question it at least.

 Well then the same thing can be said for  you :

 with no facts to validate your information anyone can say even you are

making RL threats and stalking people.

I have  spend time with the writer of that blog and i can tell you that she is

spot on what happens in Ryzom and i agree with the way she Depicts CSR's

on the Game and as for Nitrouss i been playing Ryzom for almost 3 years and

i have never get a RL threat or be stalked by him or any player..

Originally posted by Monje

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Originally posted by Guddrin

Ryzom fascinates, like playing it, some staff people seem ok but seems staff would need more professionalism. Some more player information here.

The information the reference sounded serious, at least for someone outside and not much involved people, till the paragraph for the char Nitrous and the praise of him. I have witnessed myself how the char Nitrouss has perma stalking peeps ingame with tells and how he has  driven people away with his behaviour. It can't be excused  with roleplay because it was permanent stalking in private tells  24/7 so to speak even with RL threats.

Knowing this i am not sure about the validity of the other information in this blog entry and i have to question it at least.

 Well then the same thing can be said for  you :

 with no facts to validate your information anyone can say even you are

making RL threats and stalking people.

 

I have  spend time with the writer of that blog and i can tell you that she is

spot on what happens in Ryzom and i agree with the way she Depicts CSR's

on the Game and as for Nitrouss i been playing Ryzom for almost 3 years and

i have never get a RL threat or be stalked by him or any player..

Read my post again and spend attention to the words "witnessed myself"...

Don't know about the other parts but Nitrouss was a bully.

Originally posted by Tylantia

How it is atm from what people have said, you can see that there is no direction, control, heirarchy or even basic structure anymore.

 Well, if you allow me to pick this up, one of the main criticisms - at least on Leanon - is not the lack of direction, control, hierarchy or structure, but that fact that it exists and that there's made use of. We had, for example, a player who declared the King of Matia dead and weak (yeah, both), that he would be the saviour and therefore he's King now (and no, there was no irony ot good-natured foolery involved).  Now, either you can accept this, or ignore this, or you take some sort of action. The first has to be out of discussion, for it's not founded in any reasonable truth, not even in a make-believe world. The second has the danger that other might take his course, and that would lead to a fission of the game and would make any sort of RP almost impossible. In this special case, I happen to be part of the Council of Nobles, so I won't be able to ignore the player anyway. So for me it had to be third right from the start. The Council decided to invite the anarchist, and the GMs took this as seriously as it should be taken and graced the meeting at the Royal Palace with the presence of Karan Yrkanis. The playeer who called himself King and fooled around on the throne, etc., was half impressed and said "sorry", but a few minutes later was back in old form. So the Council and the King decided to exile him until he has learned his bit. And to support this, the GM's took his Matis fame away. But imagine the row which followed, attacking the GMs; the council players were used to attacks anyway, for there are people who say that either any player is allowed to have such a position or none, and all players should be allowed in every player parliament, no matter what allegiance or nation, and no matter what he/she actually does. That would, of course, make the whole idea of player parliaments absurd. If you ask me, what we did was the most consequent action available, and the most fitting - and it involved direction, control, hierarchy and basic structure both IG as well as far as the GMs were concerned.