Originally posted by Cendharia

Here's my take on things.  Ryzom is different...it doesn't hold your hand, lead you around by the nose, pat you on the head and give you a cookie.

It is a challenging game where YOU make the decisions on what your main character will be, and what skills that character will have.   It is not predetermined for you.   It leaves that up to you.   Yes its an old game, I have an account that  dates back to Nov 2004. 

The game is NOT f2p in the sense that there will be malls demanding real money for items to help your character to progress and compete.   It is free to play ...FOR THE TIME BEING, til the new owners get the billing system up and running, and after they do what they deem they need to do with the game to either fix or update it or whatever they are planning.

It is NOT a rubbish game, it may be "rubbish" in some folks' eyes because ..its challenging, and most new to the scene gamers that I have met, tend to want the easy way out, challenge is a foreign word to them.  So therefore a game like Ryzom...which IS a challenging game..challenging you to do your best to succeed at what YOU WANT TO DO within the game.   It challenges you to think.....and make decisions.  

Personally I loved the changing seasons in the game...and they actually do change...first game ever that has done this,  I have been gaming since about 1995 or 96....never seen that before.   So even though its an "old" game, it has some innovative things in it.

The AI for the mobs is interesting too, ...these game animals don't just stand around and wait for you to come kill them.   They migrate...and they might hunt you down too...reversing the tables. hehe

I read this thread pretty much all the way through, and I think that those that haven't gamed for very long, would come to the conclusion that the "game is rubbish" because....all they know is that Blizzard game,  where everything always falls into place and you are always rewarded for doing the slightest little action.

Ryzom isn't like that...its not quest based, only the trial area has quests...mainland is much different.   Its a living world...a root ball. :)

I guess Ryzom appeals more to the roleplayer than anything else, it really  is a living breathing world that you can immerse yourself in...and possibly forget what time it is.    I know..I have done that. :)

There are mulitple and myriad skills to learn..each one with a skill cap of 250 points.   There are so many things to learn in this game, it boggles the mind.   Far as I know..from listening to the elders talk, noone has ever accomplished learning all there is to know in Ryzom and thereby "beating the game".

Seeing as that seems to be the mentality out there today,  "beating the game".....I guess Ryzom would not be attractive to those that want to be able to say...I beat the game in 7 days, I beat the game in 24 hours.

Ryzom wasn't meant to be played like that.  :)

Think of it as a never ending story that you can share with a whole community.   The stories (lore) are created by the player community......it is not static, it is living and alive..just like the devoted players who have stuck by this game all this time.  :)

Cend

 

 

 

Q: Can I jump the two foot fence that runs around the compound in the training area and if not, Why?

Q: Is it true that standing on a higher mound or platform of some sort, a hill maybe and shooting your target, which is below you on a lower level is considered as exploiting the game, true or false?
 

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Originally posted by redcap036
Q: Can I jump the two foot fence that runs around the compound in the training area and if not, Why?

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Sorry, no, you can't. You must go around. I can't tell you the technical reasons, but I can tell you that it doesn't make the game any less fun to play for most of us. This topic has been beaten to death repeatedly in many many places, so I won't repeat all of it here. Feel free to peruse those conversations and make your own judgment. Different people have offered different ideas about whether and how the ability to jump over obstacles would be better or worse for the gameplay. Some people have been less than pleasant about insisting that their opinion is the correct one, on all sides of the argument. Others have been open-minded about accepting the opposing viewpoint as valid. Most shrug their shoulders and just play.

Personally, I think it would be fun to jump off the Lakeland docks into the water, but I wouldn't want to accidentally fall off and have to swim around to the beach to get back where I was. I'm OK with it as is, though. There are plenty of gaps in those fences to walk through.

(You also can't move your pawns backwards in chess, and rooks can't jump over other pieces like knights can. Them's the rules.)

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Q: Is it true that standing on a higher mound or platform of some sort, a hill maybe and shooting your target, which is below you on a lower level is considered as exploiting the game, true or false

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I don't know of too many places where you could do this enough to make it worth your while. Generally if you can get there, the mob you're shooting can get there too. If you did find a spot where you could "exploit" the terrain, it would get you a paltry few levels, and then you'd have to go elsewhere anyway. I also think it would be rather boring to hunt that way. So in general I'd say that in my opinion it's not "exploiting" in the negative sense, but you can always ask a CSR first if you are worried about the appropriateness of some action.

So, redcap, I hope that helps.

I'd also like to mention that I think many people approach Ryzom and other roleplaying games in a manner that I think is somewhat counter-productive. They seem to be looking for the easiest and/or fastest possible way to gain levels or other "tangible" rewards, and completely miss out on having any fun while they are doing it.

Ryzom especially is not well suited to that sort of approach, as the skill system and rules are designed more for immersion and an open-ended creative experience than for providing an enjoyable easiest path through a pre-determined course of progression toward some pre-scripted final reward, after which one can claim to have "beaten" the game and quit.

Originally posted by redcap036

Originally posted by Cendharia

Here's my take on things.  Ryzom is different...it doesn't hold your hand, lead you around by the nose, pat you on the head and give you a cookie.

It is a challenging game where YOU make the decisions on what your main character will be, and what skills that character will have.   It is not predetermined for you.   It leaves that up to you.   Yes its an old game, I have an account that  dates back to Nov 2004. 

The game is NOT f2p in the sense that there will be malls demanding real money for items to help your character to progress and compete.   It is free to play ...FOR THE TIME BEING, til the new owners get the billing system up and running, and after they do what they deem they need to do with the game to either fix or update it or whatever they are planning.

It is NOT a rubbish game, it may be "rubbish" in some folks' eyes because ..its challenging, and most new to the scene gamers that I have met, tend to want the easy way out, challenge is a foreign word to them.  So therefore a game like Ryzom...which IS a challenging game..challenging you to do your best to succeed at what YOU WANT TO DO within the game.   It challenges you to think.....and make decisions.  

Personally I loved the changing seasons in the game...and they actually do change...first game ever that has done this,  I have been gaming since about 1995 or 96....never seen that before.   So even though its an "old" game, it has some innovative things in it.

The AI for the mobs is interesting too, ...these game animals don't just stand around and wait for you to come kill them.   They migrate...and they might hunt you down too...reversing the tables. hehe

I read this thread pretty much all the way through, and I think that those that haven't gamed for very long, would come to the conclusion that the "game is rubbish" because....all they know is that Blizzard game,  where everything always falls into place and you are always rewarded for doing the slightest little action.

Ryzom isn't like that...its not quest based, only the trial area has quests...mainland is much different.   Its a living world...a root ball. :)

I guess Ryzom appeals more to the roleplayer than anything else, it really  is a living breathing world that you can immerse yourself in...and possibly forget what time it is.    I know..I have done that. :)

There are mulitple and myriad skills to learn..each one with a skill cap of 250 points.   There are so many things to learn in this game, it boggles the mind.   Far as I know..from listening to the elders talk, noone has ever accomplished learning all there is to know in Ryzom and thereby "beating the game".

Seeing as that seems to be the mentality out there today,  "beating the game".....I guess Ryzom would not be attractive to those that want to be able to say...I beat the game in 7 days, I beat the game in 24 hours.

Ryzom wasn't meant to be played like that.  :)

Think of it as a never ending story that you can share with a whole community.   The stories (lore) are created by the player community......it is not static, it is living and alive..just like the devoted players who have stuck by this game all this time.  :)

Cend

 

 

 

 

Q: Can I jump the two foot fence that runs around the compound in the training area and if not, Why?

Q: Is it true that standing on a higher mound or platform of some sort, a hill maybe and shooting your target, which is below you on a lower level is considered as exploiting the game, true or false?
 

A: No, because it wasn't coded (There are some Idea's why it wasn't but I don't think anyone knows)

A: It's only an exploit if the mobs can't get to you but by now most exploitable terrain as been fixed so you would get a message saying "the way you killed blah blah was to easy..." and won't get any xp.....

I've been playing this game for coming up to 5 years. Theres still alot of things I still want to achieve. You really play this game to exist in a very detailed world, not to reach any kind of end-game. The game is full of content, it's just obscure. The game doesn't impose itself on you it just gives you alot of options, you choose what you want to do.

Final

Originally posted by Sasi

 

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Originally posted by redcap036
Q: Can I jump the two foot fence that runs around the compound in the training area and if not, Why?

---

 

Sorry, no, you can't. You must go around. I can't tell you the technical reasons, but I can tell you that it doesn't make the game any less fun to play for most of us. This topic has been beaten to death repeatedly in many many places, so I won't repeat all of it here. Feel free to peruse those conversations and make your own judgment. Different people have offered different ideas about whether and how the ability to jump over obstacles would be better or worse for the gameplay. Some people have been less than pleasant about insisting that their opinion is the correct one, on all sides of the argument. Others have been open-minded about accepting the opposing viewpoint as valid. Most shrug their shoulders and just play.

Personally, I think it would be fun to jump off the Lakeland docks into the water, but I wouldn't want to accidentally fall off and have to swim around to the beach to get back where I was. I'm OK with it as is, though. There are plenty of gaps in those fences to walk through.

(You also can't move your pawns backwards in chess, and rooks can't jump over other pieces like knights can. Them's the rules.)

 

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Q: Is it true that standing on a higher mound or platform of some sort, a hill maybe and shooting your target, which is below you on a lower level is considered as exploiting the game, true or false

---

 

I don't know of too many places where you could do this enough to make it worth your while. Generally if you can get there, the mob you're shooting can get there too. If you did find a spot where you could "exploit" the terrain, it would get you a paltry few levels, and then you'd have to go elsewhere anyway. I also think it would be rather boring to hunt that way. So in general I'd say that in my opinion it's not "exploiting" in the negative sense, but you can always ask a CSR first if you are worried about the appropriateness of some action.

So, redcap, I hope that helps.

I'd also like to mention that I think many people approach Ryzom and other roleplaying games in a manner that I think is somewhat counter-productive. They seem to be looking for the easiest and/or fastest possible way to gain levels or other "tangible" rewards, and completely miss out on having any fun while they are doing it.

Ryzom especially is not well suited to that sort of approach, as the skill system and rules are designed more for immersion and an open-ended creative experience than for providing an enjoyable easiest path through a pre-determined course of progression toward some pre-scripted final reward, after which one can claim to have "beaten" the game and quit.

Nice reply, although all you told me about jumping was that we can't do it and you don't know why, that and your happy with it or without it.

For me without jumping in a 3d explorer style games. PvE, PvP, etc..just doesn't cut it, it detracts from the game and just doesn't allow me to enjoy the game as much, it's frustrating when you have to back track to get off a hill that only lets you on and off at one point, yet the ledge I stand on is only 1-1/2 ft jump down to the forest floor below,( not a problem in any other game) and yes the 2 ft fence that makes you walk around it everytime is annoying,( once or twice is acceptable)

Not actually into exploiting this game or any for that matter, using higher ground to deal with my target/s is a common warfare tactic in real life and in pretty much any 3d combat or explorer type game, only in Rysom do you get accused of exploiting for using a common game tactic and punished for it I might add.

I did like the graphic style of the game, I did like the lore and background, I thought the races were very cool and interesting, but in the end the lack of the basic's of common gameplay and tactic's, just put me off and I went looking for a new game to play, if they ever implement jumping and basic game tactics,(which we have discussed here) then I would come back and continue playing.

To answer the OP's question, although these are not the main reasons why everyone is not jumping in on this game, as you put it, I believe they do contribute to the lack of players jumping in to play.
 

Thought I'ld through this in.

The world is defined on top of some of those hills you can not jump up on to,

I know this cause I have accidentally been put up there on occassion -- not gonna tell you all how this happens.

So if they did all of a sudden make jumping part of Ryzom, they would have to redefine a lot of the landscape to prevent players from being able to jump up onto terrain that is suppose to be inaccessable.

I've never found a location that allows me to attack a mob but not have it attack me.

Interestingly, however the reverse is not true. There are some plants that occassionally spawn in water that is not attackable with melee. However they can be attacked with magic. But if your soloing a patch with melee, it is frustrating.

Personally I've never found jumping in any games to fun or a good game mechanic. I'ld much rather they added more player breathing animations like they have for players in HA than add jumping. Have enjoyed invisibility, underwater gameplay, and levitation -- most of my experience was in EQ with those.

The beauty of Ryzom is in the skill sysytem, player created action system, Mob AI, interactive herd behaviour, foraging, and crafting. To be sure there is much more to Ryzom but those are the big game mechanics that no other game comes close to for me.

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Originally posted by redcap036
Nice reply, ... (stuff about jumping)

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I agree that there are places where it seems like it would make sense to be able to traverse some minor obstacle. Perhaps simply making a minor alteration to those boundaries would be better than introducing a new mechanic, though.

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Originally posted by redcap036
Not actually into exploiting ..., using higher ground to deal with my target/s is a common warfare tactic in real life and in pretty much any 3d combat or explorer type game, only in Rysom do you get accused of exploiting for using a common game tactic and punished for it I might add.

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Using high ground as a ranged combat/spellcasting tactic is entirely appropriate, and in many places in Ryzom works well to give additional time before your target reaches you. The "exploit" issue would come into play only in an instance where it would give "unfair advantage". That's a subjective decision, of course, and would probably be made more in consideration of gameplay than realism.

I'm curious about your comment regarding accusations of exploiting. What is your source for that? Has it happened to you, or is it second hand from someone else? I've personally never heard of anyone being unfairly punished for exploiting terrain, and wonder what other sorts of circumstances might fill in the context of such a punishment. GMs are fallible humans of course, so it's possible that some case of excessive punishment occurred, but I'm not aware of one. Now, if some player accused one of exploiting, then that's just noise and best ignored or at most discussed civilly with that player.

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Originally posted by redcap036
I did like the graphic style of the game, I did like the lore and background, I thought the races were very cool and interesting, but in the end the lack of the basic's of common gameplay and tactic's, just put me off and I went looking for a new game to play, if they ever implement jumping and basic game tactics,(which we have discussed here) then I would come back and continue playing.
To answer the OP's question, although these are not the main reasons why everyone is not jumping in on this game, as you put it, I believe they do contribute to the lack of players jumping in to play.
 

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We'd be happy to have you back.

You are almost certainly correct that some people try the game and decide against staying with it because it doesn't offer some activity or play style they enjoy. I think that some small changes to reduce some of those complaints would be very welcome. However, as has been said many times, you can't be all things to all people. I'm sure the new development team would welcome your input.

Tried Ryzom, is currently playing Runes of magic instead, like it a lot better...

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Originally posted by Loke666
Tried Ryzom, is currently playing Runes of magic instead, like it a lot better...

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Thanks for stopping by, and best wishes in your new home. :)

Just a comment on the jumping limitation.  Both SWG and Guild Wars share this "no jumping" mechanic.  This is a limitation of the graphic engine.  I like to jump over things as well, but once you get used to the "no jumping over stuff" feature you get used to it.  It's not a big deal, and certainly not a valid justification for not giving SoR a chance.

My problem with SoR is that there is not enough "guided" content early on to hook new players who are used to that kind of thing in other MMORPG's they play.  Personally, I'd like some quests early on that lead me through the lore with some simple rewards that make them worth doing and help me learn the mechanics of the game.  I felt like I was just left dangling when I started playing SoR.  I'm sure that loses a lot of potential players who like content to pull them along a little bit early on.

Oh, and I always love your posts, Sasi. 

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Originally posted by indiramourn
Oh, and I always love your posts, Sasi.

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Thank you very much :)
Sometimes I fear coming across as too much of a know-it-all or something, but I'm mostly just trying to act as a reasonable and well-informed (albeit long-winded) representative of the Ryzom community, and not too horribly much of a blinded fangirl.

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Originally posted by indiramourn
My problem with SoR is that there is not enough "guided" content early on to hook new players who are used to that kind of thing in other MMORPG's they play.  Personally, I'd like some quests early on that lead me through the lore with some simple rewards that make them worth doing and help me learn the mechanics of the game.  I felt like I was just left dangling when I started playing SoR.  I'm sure that loses a lot of potential players who like content to pull them along a little bit early on.

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I'm a bit at a loss here, because the starting area, the Ruins of Silan, provides exactly what you describe here. Can you perhaps elaborate?

The problem occurs when they leave the newbie island to find out that NPCs are no longer leading them by the nose and telling them what to do. So they feel lost and confused. Where do I go ? What do I do ? NPCs don't have giant glowing exclamation marks floating over their heads to tell them "Hey ! Come here ! I have a mission for you !" (They have a title under their names and they sometimes wander around too.) And, guess what, they don't dress you up with new gear anymore. Nope, they only offer fame and/or dappers. You have the choice to do them or not.

Some will attempt the first Amber Cube quest chain and be turned off by the part that involves an obligatory FedEx mission to chose among other FedEx missions.

Finding wandering NPCs is hard if :

1. you don't know how to use your compass properly;
2. you're not patient enough to explore the whole region;
3. you're not particularly talented at dodging aggro.

The first challenge for a newly arrived refugee that reaches the mainland is to decide where to go and what to do. Some are just too used to soloing all the way to max level and then they find out that the environment is particularly harsh to new unexperienced players. They realize that soloing is going to be very hard. Ryzom is one of those rare communities where asking a question means having the possibility to get a half decent answer. But most often, they don't even try to make that EFFORT of reaching out and getting help.

Too affraid to be made fun of or they think they are too good to lower themselves to getting help from strangers, maybe. They get frustrated from not being able to get everything they want before yesterday, and quit.

I think if you are on a budget and can't afford to pay a monthly sub at the moment, this game is an interesting one to try.  The crafting is kinda indepth and requires some experimentation to master.  And you can create your own spells.

Originally posted by Sasi

I'm a bit at a loss here, because the starting area, the Ruins of Silan, provides exactly what you describe here. Can you perhaps elaborate?

What Sherkalyn said.  I'm not saying that SoR should be like every other MMORPG where the content is primarily quest driven.  But that having quest driven options, especially when you first reach the mainland, would be a potent method of retaining many players. 

Yeah, the majority of new SoR players are coming from other games that are not 'sandbox'-like.  To ease them into SoR's free-form open world a couple of totally optional quest driven content arcs--as options when they first reach the mainland--would be nice.

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Originally posted by indiramourn

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Originally posted by Sasi

I'm a bit at a loss here, because the starting area, the Ruins of Silan, provides exactly what you describe here. Can you perhaps elaborate?

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What Sherkalyn said.  I'm not saying that SoR should be like every other MMORPG where the content is primarily quest driven.  But that having quest driven options, especially when you first reach the mainland, would be a potent method of retaining many players. 
Yeah, the majority of new SoR players are coming from other games that are not 'sandbox'-like.  To ease them into SoR's free-form open world a couple of totally optional quest driven content arcs--as options when they first reach the mainland--would be nice.
 

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OK, I see what you mean. The Encyclopedia missions are intended to be just that, but they still lack polish and need some work, not to mention a few are not yet implemented. I think (and hope) that the new dev team is working on those.

 so wait..is this game COMPLETELY free to play now? or "free-for-a-little-while-till-we-fix-sh*t, then you have to pay"?

how's the population? I'm looking for a good no-monthly-sub MMO to play besides Guild Wars.

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Originally posted by JMadisonIV
 so wait..is this game COMPLETELY free to play now? or "free-for-a-little-while-till-we-fix-sh*t, then you have to pay"?
how's the population? I'm looking for a good no-monthly-sub MMO to play besides Guild Wars.
 
 

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No. It's free until they get the billing system set up. At least through November, but no promises after that.

I should qualify that...

Assuming the system works like before, there is a free trial area with no time limit. Subscribers can leave the trial area and venture out into a larger world. The trial/starter area is good for at least a few weeks of play.

Or a few months if you're crazy like me. But I really don't regret subscribing and hopping to the mainlaind, even if I got eaten by a dozen of Varinxes and many more Cuttlers right afterwards, just like a yummy squishie marshmellow.

Originally posted by honkeytonkma

Its like the closest thing to preCU SWG as you can get

nah, i tried Saga, but its way too much of a grind so i left. Only way i would go back to Saga if ever, is if they put in a pet system like UO had with tamer.

Ryzom's days are numbered anyway. It has a great crafting system and skill system, don't get me wrong. Nor is the fact that the game is ruled by 3-4 year old oldtimers a problem.

Ryzom's craft/skill systems are not going to be very unique for much longer, and then what is left? A couple dozen people hanging on for emotional reasons?

The engine and graphics would need an overhaul to smooth it out and modernize it to remain competitive at that point, but that is a lot of work, and who's going to pay for that?

Its the type of game you'd expect to see on life-support with SoE at this point in its lifetime heh