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APB: GDC First Look Part One - Pessimist
While at this year's Game Developer's Conference both Keith Cross and Laura Genender attended a seminar called "My First MMO". This seminar was about the upcoming MMO All Points Bulletin. While both Keith and Laura left the room impressed, Keith's impressions were pessimistic, while Laura's was through the roof enthusiastic. Today, we present both of their views as an MMORPG.com first look at APB.
While at the Game Developers Conference, I attended a seminar titled “My First MMO.” I assumed the focus of the seminar was going to be on tips and tricks for those ambitious souls who want to take on the challenge of creating the fickle creature known as the MMO game. The seminar turned out to be more of a showcase for the graphics and game concepts for APB. If you haven’t heard of APB, or All Points Bulletin, it’s essentially cops and robbers online. Another way to look at it would be to think of it as GTA’s half sibling because the guy up on the podium is none other than Dave Jones, the creator of the original GTA and currently the CEO of Real Time Worlds.
The question of what exactly defines an MMO took up the first portion of the talk. The MMO world is currently dominated by RPGs, and the definition of MMO in the popular consciousness is blurred with that of the MMORPG. In my mind, the bare minimum you need to call you game an MMO would be a number of players, numbering in at least the thousands, playing together in a persistent game environment with unique characters. Of these minimum qualities the only one that I would put in the category of both MMO and RPG would be having unique characters.
And APB has some unique characters. By that I mean, what we saw of the character creation was incredibly detailed. The graphics were of a much higher quality than any MMO I’ve seen on the market and the sheer number of options with sliders, clothing choices, tattoos and the like make for a near infinite number of distinctly different characters. The tattoo system deserves a little special attention because instead of putting your body markings in various locations that have been predetermined by the developers, you can place tattoos anywhere and in any orientation around you character’s body. To demo the character creation, and to have a little fun, we were shown some sample characters, in the form of several famous game developers including Shigeru Miyamoto, Richard Garriott, and Peter Molyneux. We may have had a few laughs at their expense, but it was all in good fun.
The game itself involves a lot of driving around town, so it’s fitting that your car is as customizable as your character. We were treated to a gameplay video that included a lengthy car chase, and showed how the game’s mission system works. Essentially, we had a team of cops cruising around town in their pimped patrol car, and then we see the robbers on a mission to hijack an armored car. As soon as the criminals break the law, an APB goes out and the cops now have a mission to apprehend the crooks. That’s how APB’s matching system works. Players playing criminals commit a crime and the system calls a group of players on the side of the law to go after them. We were initially shown a four on four match, but the system is not rigged to force even teams. We were also treated to a sequence where four novice criminals on a smash and grab get taken down by one lone super cop. At this point Jones rhetorically asked why so many other PvP matching systems forced even numbered teams, when there is a wealth of other viable options.
When Jones laid out the design philosophies behind his games, he often asked why we currently do things the way we do. We’ve built up these conventions and definitions of gameplay styles, universally applying rules that aren’t universal. This takes us back to the definition of an RPG. In its broadest sense, a role playing game is simply a game where you play a character that isn’t you. You don’t make the kind of decisions for your character that you would make in real life. Very few people in their right mind would don armor and a magic sword, then waltz into a cave full of dragons to find some gold and a better magic sword. And that brings me to my point. Going into the cave is an act of role-playing, killing monsters and gaining treasure and EXP is not. The latter are conventions of a role-playing game, not intrinsic qualities of one, yet they have become tied up in the definition of the MMORPG genre.
Jones seems to hold a philosophy of not forcing this style of gameplay on a player and opting for an environment that encourages a more emergent style of play. Players are given many tools and options, and it is left up to them to discover how they can best have fun. It’s less about giving players what designers think they want, and more about providing an open space with numerous options for players to find their own fun.
My job in this article is to play the role of the pessimist. I spent most of this article talking about what I liked about what I saw. The graphics looked amazing, I loved the high degree of customization of both vehicles and humans, core game mechanics seem solid, and Jones seems to have an excellent understanding of gaming philosophy. Where’s the cynic you ask?
The cynic is right here. I liked what I saw, but it all seems too good to be true. The play sequences were heavily edited, so it’s hard to say how smooth the gameplay actually is. Graphics can be easily tweaked and edited to put on a nice show when everything is prerecorded. High minded game concepts and ideals always sound good when presented in an overview format. For example, the matching system sounds great, if it actually works in game the way it was described. I’ve played too many games that talked big about their cool features only to find that they failed in the execution or missed important nuances. Everything we looked at was with a zoomed out lens; none of the nitty-gritty details were made visible to us. I’m not saying I suspect shenanigans, I’m just wary. Just like you shouldn’t count your chickens until they hatch, I say one shouldn’t get overly excited about flashy screenshots and trailers. I’m going to reserve excitement and judgment on APB until I’ve seen more gameplay and played an actual demo.
Check out Part Two: Optimist, here.
That character creation video was pretty amazing, I have to admit.
I normally don't like PvP, which is basically what this game seems to be, but I have to give them high marks for creativity and character design.
Yeh, character creation looks like a dream to me. Just hope the game isn't 100% PvP.
I agree that APB sounds too good to be true. However, if everything the developer says comes to fruition, this game will revolutionize the genre. I think this game will be a hit if it includes everything the developer spoke about.
The only thing im worried about with apb is that they will over hype it....and make it too good to be true, then people will be disapointed when they are missing something they thought was going to be in the game.
I'm not sure how you can be to pessimistic about a game that is TRYING to be radically different than the warhammer aoc wow clones. For me they get 3 stars just for being different. No levels and turf wars come on what more can you ask for?
It would be so cool to make my toon look just like me including all my tattoos.
There are some interesting ideas and I'll be keeping an eye on this....
sounds like a good game on paper. must of missed where they mentioned not having a standard leveling system, but that sounds good too. im a little concerned about the balance between cops and robbers but im sure there are numerous things to be done about it. what kind of an endgame will this thing have? do you have to form a crime syndicate and be hunted by the fbi or something?
i think this game could appeal to the casual gamer. log on for a quick smash and grab kill some cops and then log out. and then you can appeal to the hardcore gamer by having a system set up to create a drug deal like in that new jack city movie. lol they could be like battlekeeps in AOC.
I would have to agree with you, the concept sounds great but I think they will have to add more substance to this game for it to be successful. From what I read, it seems the only way you can progress is doing quest which involves matches, what else is this game going to offer besides matches? Is there going to be any PvE? Will we be able to set up clan/guild matches? Maybe I am thinking to far ahead but these are some of the questions that pop in my head.
I would have to say that the PvP and shooting appeal to my FPS side, while the character customization and character progress appeal to my MMO side, you kind of get the best of both worlds. Let’s hope they can put this together.
I'd have to say the house "pessimist" is much more of a pragmatist.
The game sounds great--yeah, as always, we will have to wait, see, and taste what actually comes out of the pot. But the sounds and smells from the APB kitchen are making my mouth water.
As for the designer's approach and comments--we need more of that in MMOs. More willingness to look at things and ask why and why not?
Soon as i heared about APB i went to the site and booked marked it its a game am looking forward to this year and i upgraded my pc for this to am hopeing to make a clan out of this game.
To answer the question of the end game , Stephen Hewitt, Lead Designer on APB has said
"APB is a freeform, massively multiplayer game where players can either play as cops (Enforcers) or robbers (Criminals). Criminals commit crimes, and Enforcers try to stop them. You can play solo, group up into groups, or form more permanent Gangs or Squads (much like guilds). You can fight over persistent Turf Areas, develop contacts, and do a whole host of other things."
Nicky Hunt Senior Software Engineer from Real Time Worlds(developer) has said in an interview
"Question: So, if the game is cops vs. robbers, how do you start the game?
NICKY HUNT: Criminals will start as a basic thug and cops will start out as a rookie. Each side will level up and move up through the ranks of their respective areas of play.
Question:Can you make or join a gang if you're a criminal?
NICKY HUNT: Yes, of course, and that will play a big role. You'll also be able to control territory with your gang. There's going to be a whole territory system involved."
So one of the end games is your guild fighting other guilds over ownership of persistent turf areas. Also there seems to be some kinda reputation system so that might be part of the end game also.
The quotes are from apb-evolved.com/
The concept and the character creation video got me salivating. I'm keeping an eye on this one!
PvP.
Action.
No grind.
Customisation-focus.
This game is what some of you guys have always been asking for. I hope you support it. Cause if you don't, you have no idea how much I will be happy telling you all these points are detrimental in a MMO...
Nice info, get this game an offical forums on here, stat!!!
I wonder if you'll be able to play a dirty cop or an undercover thug
Well, rhetorically, he answered his own question. Without balance, you have the example given. Not much of a leap of logic there...
Oh wait, maybe the 4 noobs had the time of their life fighting a guy they couldn't touch!
...
And who determines what 'balance' is right? How do you guage players 'power' in these games? Levels typically, but this won't have levels right? So...
Well, this is just more proof of the shotgun effect, fire enough MMO's at the gaming audience, maybe one won't suck. I don't have high hopes of a pay to play GTA game.
Nobody has said if this will be pay to play or not. Since this WILL be on the xbox360 live service also. They might make it free with ads or item store. Until they announce something we wont know.
So....let's see what they come up with for 'viable options'. Proof? More like a cynical guess.
knowing this developer (webzen), the game might be as good as they say, they'll just never release it in America. They've been promising SUN and Wiki for years now. SUN has been out in Korea since 05, and was supposed to come out here in 06. Now, i'm not sure if I even want to play it anymore. Webzen is undoubtedly one of my least favorite companies.
The guy that's behind Crackdown is making APB so it's definately coming to America, probably before Asia even.
The issue I see with this, and perhaps the only major issue, is that there does not seem to be any PvE. No INstanced PvE, or open world PvE.
So take the average gamer that likes to Solo online (Apparently there are a lot of people that play this way, see WoW for more info ;-) ). The suggestion is that as a High Level solo player, the game can match you with 4 low level players.
Now what happens with MMORPGs is that at some point they become top heavy, there's a lot of high level players but no so much low level players.
What happens to the player match making then?
And then what about Server populations? Your gameplay experience will be directly tied to the number of people and the overall level range on your server, since apparently PvP isn't really an option for advancement, its the primary focus for advancement.
It's like hunting for a Counter Strike game, or going through a Halo matchmaking engine to find a game. Works fine when there are several people at your skill level online, but when there aren't it sucks.
And for an MMORPG, persistent world type game, the player should be challenged and be able to find a suitable game always (especially for a monthly fee).
Is this potential issue addressed anywhere?
They said that there would be no leveling system, but you could see a character's progress in their appearance and weapons. For example, we saw some "newbies" in blue jeans and white t-shirts, then a much more "gangsta" looking character who had been playing a long time. David also mentioned that the newbies only had pistol, while the veteran had a variety of weapons.
When did developer webzen take over real time worlds developers? Its real time worlds who is the developers of the game webzen is just going publish it.
I've been following APB since it was being thought up hearing rumors several years ago about dave wanting to make a gta like mmo. However after reading and listening to the movies I'm frustrated because it would appear the game isn't going to be much of an mmo but rather more of a hellgate london as far as MASSIVE goes. I will surely play apb but it pisses me off when amazing games like this shoot for instance based worlds and encounters rather than making one massive world. My opinion is all speculation of course seeing as I have not played the game. But just take hellgate for instance how awesome would it be if it were just one big ass world instead of the piece of crap it turned out to be... I have followed apb longer than hellgate and I think APB is going to hold the same disappointment for me as hellgate did. I will however be spending 5 hrs making my character before this disappointment sets in :O
If any of you writers or people who work for mmorpg to get interviews are reading this and you ever interview the devs about APB talk to them and really get into whether or not it is a persistent world or 90% instanced.... with those graphics it is easy to assume the devs are going for instanced.. I r sad
Haven't heard heard of the game before. Seems to have much potential. Will keep my eyes peeled.
"Servers will hold 100 players maximum and are considered "districts" of the city. Half can be cops, half can be robbers, or depending on skill level, higher ranked players can fight in smaller numbers against greater hordes of opposition. Players can also design their own graffiti to put up around the district. Also, they will be able to trade custom designs with others." - Source
"While groups can hold up to 40 members, PvP action only allows for 8 of those members to take on 8 opposing players." - Source
FPS servers house 10x more players yet they consider this game to be a MMOG (Massive Multiplayer Online Game)? Not so much imo... Not to mention we will have to pay monthly for this? The game is pretty but this pisses me off.
www.25tolife.com
APB needs to raise the bar... 25 to life Hosts 16 players are they a MMOG? they host double APB's numbers... When are game development companies going to learn genres? APB is hardly massive it is however a MOG (Multiplayer Online Game), yet it is being advertised as an MMOG and is perceived as an MMORPG... I guess it's all marketing schemes to attract more players but I see hellgate london fail written all over APB big disappointment for me as I expected more out of this game.
I should just get into game design but then again I don't think I would be able to work for some of the big named noobs behind all the current mmo's in development and already released. I could never stomach working for someone who had an idea for a mmo that I would never play. Also why is mmorpg.com starting to advertise games that aren't mmo's? I hate seeing hellgate on here...
1337 . Ima roll an orc pimp.
Apb does look amazing and i can't wait for it to get released :)
This game is looking good. It clearly has plenty of development time ahead. No need to read into what little information is currently available.
New info
Meet RTW at "Game in Scotland"
Whether you're looking to get into the industry, or are already in it, Realtime Worlds and many other Scottish games developers will be at Game in Scotland on Saturday the 29th March in our hometown of Dundee.