PVP:Yes | Distribution:Retail | Retail Price:n/a | Pay Type:Subscription
Desktop Client | System Req:
Star Trek Online News - Limited Time Offer Triggers Immense Backlash
Posted by Michael Bitton on Mar 02, 2010 | 132 comments in our forums
Cryptic Studios, which has been no stranger to controversy lately, is on the receiving end of community backlash once again, this time for their recently released MMORPG, Star Trek Online. What's stirring the pot over at Star Trek Online? A limited time offer of a $10 price cut and an additional 60 days (for a total of 90) free game time for customers who purchase the standard edition of the game or just the extra 60 days for those who purchase the Collector's Edition before 9PM PST on Wednesday, March 3rd, 2010.
)
As a new customer, this sounds like an absolutely excellent offer. Who wouldn't want an extra 60 days? That more than covers that premium one would pay for the Collector's Edition, and makes the standard edition an absolutel steal. I'll give you a hint -- it's not the new customers that are in a tizzy.
The early adopters of Star Trek Online are the one's feeling the rage at the moment, and boy are they angry.
Cryptic Studios has released a statement regarding the matter, but it hasn't really done much to placate the community. Read below for Cryptic's statement:
Hi everyone,
We understand that some of you are upset about the current sale on Atari.com. There are a number of threads on the forums about this, which is making it very difficult to find information about anything else on these forums. Due to this, we are closing all other threads regarding this matter. We do value your feedback on this, matter however, and would appreciate it if you would post your feedback regarding this matter here, in this thread. All other threads regarding this will be closed.
Thanks,
PhoxeAddendum:
I've heard many voicing concerns that we will not be honoring this sale for anyone who took advantage of it this weekend. This is not the case at all, and anyone who decided to take advantage of the offer will receive what they purchased, as advertised.
It now appears that the 60 day bonus has now been removed.
What are your thoughts on the issue? Let us know in the comments below.
[Thanks Xondar123 for the tip!]
Look at the bright side for being known as a shady amoral company... they're always under the spotlights ;)
About time you posted it ;)
You forgot to add that ATARI not only suddenly retracted the whole offer yesterday morning.
They also suddenly took in a stance of flat out saying the offer NEVER existed!
All the people that took on the offer. They were charged shipping fee. And the 60 extra days they also didn't get! As the 60 day codes were suddenly removed from their account page as well.
People that tried to call ATARI were hung up on the phone. And people that posted about this on the ATARI forums were instantly banned!
Cryptic however, is doing nothing more then damage control on their part. Wich I cannot blame them for. As their forums were a complete warzone over the weekend and a real mess. So they had to do something.
Not to mention that people now also getting banned on the Cryptic forums as well.
That statement on the Cryptic forums however, has now been altered three times (in the first version they were also saying the +60 days offer never existed)! And is in sheer contrast and conflict with the stance ATARI is taking and still taking at the moment. Meaning, that as of today, ATARI still claims the offer NEVER existed. And customers contacting them are getting ZERO on request!
I'm wondering about the 1 million accounts STO claims to have. As I said then - and will say again - 1 million accounts is not actual sales. From this stunt I can only conclude that Cryptic/Atari is stunting to get more players into STO to prevent the game to go from fail to epic fail.
Can't think of any other reason to make an offer like this if the game is only 1 month old...
Since before Champions Online launched Cryptic has been hell bent on lurching from one self inflicted PR mess to another and there seems no end insight.
Champions Online and Star Trek Online both suffer from the same recurring failure, Cryptic.
F2P pending. Given time.
I knew this game was going to flop hard, but this is just horrid CS and sales scamming.
Cryptic and atari are now in true league with SWG fail.
Reasons are not just this, but the never ending bait and promise to get the current player base they just f'ed over to renew.
Respec was suppose to be in last patch, which was late too btw. Anyways people say on this oh you should have decided a path better......well sadly the skill tree didn't give much info was a hit or miss. Not to thrash even more but how many of you have reached admiral, most of them have quit by that time or soon after due to repetitive content and lack of anything to do at the admiral lvl besides wait in a que for 15 minutes to several hours to get any pvp.
Klingons have jack chit for content, but lucky they can inter-fight to get points unline feds who need to wait for some klingons to que up for a fight.
TBH I don't know why I even bother to bitch on pvp as it's SOOOOOO crappy in the game it's unreal. You have it on both sides not just one. Ground pvp is stun, exploit, die over and over. Space pvp is I WIN if you have a carrier (klings ) who currently can sit and swap out hangers to mass spawn fleets of npcs to help in pvp. Now not to nag either side but both have CC abilities that make the pvp boring and annoying. No real control immunity.
Bottom line unless cryptic has HUGE HUGE content and balances the CC to a more playable lvl this game will fail quicker than aion/warhammer. ( atleast warhammer is trying to fix it still )
I am glad I played my buddies account first before wasting money on the game.
This should be added, i've been following this since it first started and it's almost comical at this point.
This should be added, i've been following this since it first started and it's almost comical at this point.
Wow, so they actually managed to turn an issue like this in a total screw up, not only screwing up current loyal customers but also new customers. Amazing work there, not every company can fail THAT hard, especially when trying to say a special offer like this never happened, getting banned for talking about it or actually getting scammed - no extra 60 days and free shipping.
Like I said in the last 3 threads that brought this up; "Cryptic Studios" name fits them perfect, because everything they do is cryptic and shady. It's terrible how they've treated their customers. I haven't seen such a display like this in any MMORPG I have ever played. This honestly makes the Allods $7000 Cash shop items blunder look good.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
It amazes me the level of unawareness that some individuals display when it comes to PR for a product/company. The outside world's (specifically, the gamers') perspective of a company/game ties in strongly with initial and ongoing perceptions.
Look at WAR - the game did well initially due to the fanbase Mythic and DAOC had built over the years. While I don't think it delivered up to its potential, even many "haters" out there grudgingly note that there has been a re-investment into the quality and content of the game. Whether or not that will be "too little, too late" remains to be seen.
Cryptic made a solid name for themselves with the CoX games, and it payed off well in generating interest for their other games.
Champions Online made a serious PR SNAFU by introducing a game-changing patch at the end of their headstart program. It begs the question, what do the development managers and business leads think about in these scenarios?
Now, take a game that has been introduced to mediocre reviews and (was) relying almost completely on its IP laurels, and introduce a disasterous series of events that alienates both existing and prospective subscribers to the game. That isn't a balance issue, it is a direct hit to one's wallet. I can only hope those responsible have been sacked.
I never expected much out of Atari. Everything they release is a disappointment. They even managed to destroy the beloved Neverwinter Nights series.
Atari has done nothing but emit failure since it entered the console business, and does nothing but exude failure in the software business. Atari should have just gave up long ago. Maybe they could take that money they steal from people and clean up their mess of ET Games in New Mexico.
But I guess their current owner is too busy playing make believe "Swordquest" with his 18k gold jewel-encrusted, pure-silver bladed sword to care anymore.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
This should be added, i've been following this since it first started and it's almost comical at this point.
I'd be glad to if any of you can provide me citations (links) that I can investigate. Feel free to email me at mikeb@mmorpg.com with any additional details.
They say bad publicity is still publicity. But I think this case is different. This might run Atari/Cryptic into the ground. The marketing genius who crapped out the brilliant idea to rip off the long-time loyal fans and reward the new fans has probably already been fired. Now they're on life support trying to find a way out of this mess.
On their one month release anniversary of STO, they are probably receiving more flack than any other studio ever has within such a short time frame. I hope they learn their lesson: don't rip off your fans.
Wow...I'm really glad I found out that STO isn't for me before I bought it. This sounds really shady and there is something I want to ask: Although I didn't recommend it, a friend of mine (he lives in the USA, so we are more gaming friends) bought that game when he saw that limited offer. Today, he told me per email that he was charged for shipping and didn't get his 60 days of free time. I think he is trying to contact them now, but haven't heard more of that. I thought they were going to honor that agreement? Is my friend the only one who hasn't received what was promised yet? Cause I know he was pretty pissed when he wrote me and I can really understand him...
What goes around, comes around.....nothing short of what Cryptic and Atari deserve. They have wholeheartedly earned this train wreck and I hope they die a horrible, painful economic death.
OMG Cryptic ahahaha
I remember like it was yesterday that people were singing the praises of Champions Online because Cryptic knew how to make a superhero mmo with deep customization
Now just half a year later, their name has become synonymous with slimy immoral business practices and horrible game design/customer service
Aaaaand meanwhile Funcom, most hated MMO developer of all time thanks to AO's launch and AoC as a whole, has come out of nowhere to be a ****ing awesome company and completely turned AoC around for the better
I love this industry
bah /ignore
I am an STO lifetime sub, I could care less. They want to offer 60 days free, that is fine. They can do that when and where they want to. It doesn't effect my position. As long as the game lasts at least 2 years my lifetime sub has paid for itself and I am happy with that. And IMO having more players is a great way to keep the game going, and offering 60 days free is a great way to attract new players. I understand why others are upset, but I really couldn't care less. *apathy FTW*
Say what you will about Cryptic, but I don't feel that any of the early adopters have anything more than their own lack of patience to be upset about.
Take any game, MMO or otherwise, that's just been released and some outlet somewhere will offer a sale on it within the first month. If you want to spend the extra $$$ to get the game right at release that's your business, but there's no use in complaining when a sale pops up the next week that slashes $10-15 and offers an extra or two. Until a game (or any product really) hits bargain basement prices there will always be someone who bought it two days before the sale and they'll feel cheated. C'est la vie.
I'm not defending Cryptic or saying they're in the right here, I'm simply saying that it pays to be patient.
I suspect Cryptic has adopted a revenue model based on making a simple quick game, calling it an MMO then attempt to make as much in box sales as you would from a standalone rpg. Then the subscription fees would be enormously profitable. I wouldn't have thought this could be possible given the ongoing costs of maintaining an MMO, but if you factor in Cryptic using the same engine for multiple games, relatively short dev time and their cookie-cutter, barely an mmo approach it may be possible. Add to that their reliance on established IP to drive sales and you can see how they may have pulled it off. Clearly this latest issue was driven by a need for box sales.
So sad as someone posted on the STO forum, the thread got locked too.
It is a tragic situation to see an MMO managed so badly by people who have no excuse not to know better.
My theory is they are hurting for cash. Subs aren't nearly what they projected, so they are digging out various marketing schemes in hopes of boosting subscribers.
The didn't think this 60 day bonus through very carefully though, so hence the retraction.
Cryptic and Atari is why GEORGE (MR SULU) TAKEI turned out the way he did. Now the're trying to stick it to us.
The BBB is kinda biased; you have to jump through hoops, pay fees, and what not. It's heavily based on whether or not you're willing to pay them for the score you want. Take Bioware for example. They also got a "F" rating. Bioware, seriously? They're the leading RPG developers in the market today and even they got a F.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
I know I'm done with Cryptic.. As long as the current executive staff is still employed there, I'll never buy another Atari/Cryptic product.. I'm not even happy with CBS based on their letter they recently sent out.. However not sure how much they actually know what is going on..
I love this post. I was kinda thinking the same. Even though AO is old as dirt, and AoC still is not living up to the original hype both are still going and doing well. We need to find some clever name to call Cryptic Studios like "Failcom" and "Flagshipped."
The BBB is kinda biased; you have to jump through hoops, pay fees, and what not. It's heavily based on whether or not you're willing to pay them for the score you want. Take Bioware for example. They also got a "F" rating. Bioware, seriously? They're the leading RPG developers in the market today and even they got a F.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
This is not true sir! My own business has never had to do that, though we do not have the volume of comsumers like Cryptic and Bioware. We are not BBB Accredited and have never had to pay to maintain the score we have with them.
Interestingly, the stealth winner here may be NCSoft, who bought the rights to Cryptic's CoX line.
Cryptic selling those off, but then turning around to produce Champions Online to compete directly, looked like a huge slap in the face to NCSoft.
Now, I imagine NCSoft can't contain their laughter at Cryptic's apparent implosion.
Is a scene out of The Three Stooges!
I love this post. I was kinda thinking the same. Even though AO is old as dirt, and AoC still is not living up to the original hype both are still going and doing well. We need to find some clever name to call Cryptic Studios like "Failcom" and "Flagshipped."
For myself I certainly don't think this is the worst thing to have hapened in the grand scheme of things but in regards to this indusrtry I think Cryptics behavier is appaling and should definatly not be left alone to be swept under the carpet. I enjoyed the Beta very much warts and all but the game is just not good enough to warrent supporting it through all this crap.
[Mod Edit]
I love this post. I was kinda thinking the same. Even though AO is old as dirt, and AoC still is not living up to the original hype both are still going and doing well. We need to find some clever name to call Cryptic Studios like "Failcom" and "Flagshipped."
Not only that, but STO seems to be on the ropes while Gods & Heroes is back! Man, what a crazy world we live in!
This is not true sir! My own business has never had to do that, though we do not have the volume of comsumers like Cryptic and Bioware. We are not BBB Accredited and have never had to pay to maintain the score we have with them.
Perhaps. Can't imagine Bioware getting a F-score though. *shrugs* nothing can really explain that.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
I thought CO would of been the next step up from CoX, boy was I wrong. Enjoyed the game, won't deny that. But they don't take care of their games and they don't take care of their customers. It's very unfortunate and sooner or later fans of the games will realize that they are being shafted.
Waiting for the checkmate to put Cryptic/Atari 6-Feet Under.
Cryptic is officially the worst MMO company out there today. Only a poor company would attempt to release a game as poor as STO but then to treat their customers badly as well is just a shot in the nuts.
Saw this coming from a million miles away...makes you wonder how well STO must be doing if they are already wanting to drop the price on retail boxes just to get people to try the game.
From selling beta with champions online subscriptions, the closed beta fiasco, to lowering retail box copy prices and flat out saying that it never happened? I personally will never ever consider playing or being remotely interested in a Cryptic MMO (I use this term loosely)
Cryptic has failed to touch on what an MMO is; from their mostly single player action/beatem up titles to the shitbox that they call Star Trek Online. Too bad becuase the Star Trek IP could have been great for Trekkies had Cryptic not gotten a hold of it. Paramount should be down right embarassed with the product that Cryptic has turned out.
It's too bad it takes tragedies in life for anything good to come out of it, but in this case I hope it sends a clear message to developers that MMOs are made for the people and if you do it correctly revenue will come. Rush it out the door with lackluster content and claims of an epic MMO and you'll end up right where Crypitc is today, scrambling to get YOUR money as fast as possible before they go under or to a F2P model.
I wish they would take StarTrek Online off MMORPG, for christ sakes it's not even an MMO. It should be a F2P game on coffebreakarcade.com.
Funny. They banned the original poster who made the "angry" thread which reached 307 pages, yet stickied the thread.
Now they have deleted the original post and closed the thread. Damage control!
Posting about the issue now is risking a ban, unless you stay penned in the thread they made to corral all dissent.
Can someone here confirm that custimors that bought the 60 days extra value have actually had it removed from their gaming accounts? If so then that is even 10 times worse than allowing them to buy it in the first place.
Plz dont tell me its like that. I know MMO companies are bad.. but that would take it to the next lvl...
I sorry, you are saying the 2600 was a fail? That last line confused me a little...
back on topic though...
All MT/ cash shop gaming is shady by nature, as are the companies that are stooping to jump on the gravy train in time to exploit it to the fullest before the masses catch on as to exactly how much they have been ripped off and leave the hobby in droves.
I have no idea why anyone trusts these nickel and dime guys at all, and no idea why they are suprised when they get ripped off by them.
Over on the forums, the new word is "STOffed". Similar to Flagshipped, but more about being ripped off and duped by shady company. So similar, but more specific.
"Well, they STOffed me, I bought the game and they dropped the price the next day and included two months of free time in addition to the 30 from the box."
Great entertainment... if you have gallows humor. :D
Really, Cryptic and Atari really have a hand to piss of people. Now they managed to offend BOTH, the new AND the old customers! Thats something to accomplish! One might wonder whats coming next...
The Atari Jaguar 360?
No? Well, we can hope.. Maybe the Angry Video Game Nerd will get a Jaguar that actually works this time. Hehe. Just kidding.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
As I've said in other threads I have found STO to be a lot of fun albeit in a limited way and in small bites.I would say it's worth the box price to play for a month or less.But the reason I did not purchase it is I did not like Cryptic's marketing tactics for CO and it's subsequent handling of the game did not change my opinion.I saw no change in their dealings with STO so even though like I said I think the game itself has some value I chose not to support the company.Glad now I made that personal choice.
I think the writing is on the wall. There are the usual suspects on the forums, trying to cover up the situation and dismiss the annoyed people as haters, but the dmg is done. Again
.
My opinion is that they failed with CO (awful game), I gave them another go with STO, and it's simply CO with ST skins (though you can fly straight up or down in CO). So they fool me twice, shame on me, there won't be a third.
Cryptic's name is mud to me.
Please re-read the ad above and think for a moment. Most non-gaming consumers know how to really read an ad. And when I first read it I thought you get an extra 30 days on top of the 30 days you get from the online purchase of the game. That equates to a grand total of 60 free days before you get charged.
Now take gaming consumers who have little to no experience when it comes for shopping for anyone else but themselves and for anything other than a want (as appose to a need). They take one look at the ad and automatically assume that you get 30 days for the digital purchase plus an additional 60 days on top of that before you get charged! Well sorry but that's assuming a little too much. And now you have hordes of clueless e-shoppers thinking that they get 90 days of free play when the ad nor the offer states you get 90 days. (All the reps are denying the 90 days as well but good luck explaining that to gamers)
Of course Cryptic's marketing muscle Atari, realizing the mistake it has made by using a old sale pitching technique on a mass of anything other that household shoppers, is backpeddling to do away with the ad and it's confusing offer. And this is on top of the countless original purchasers who will be missing on the additional free month (not 2 like you want to believe) that players will get who took advantage of the promotion.
All I can say that as gamers make a bigger bunk of their gaming purchases online, they best get use to the slick business practices of advertising and sales before they drive themselves into a mindless frenzy every time they forget to read the fine print.
LOL. It's impressicve that the only thing they don't half-ass is creating a bad name for themselves. That shit is on warp 9.
Oh the IRONY I remember when the STO board was posting about the CO fiasco and how they said nothing of that sort would happen to them since the IP was vastly more important. Lo and behold here we are.
What will be hilarious is if Atari decided on this due to having to make the choice of making Vibora expansion free instead of pay to play and were hoping to gain back the capital through STO.
That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard, other than roflpants. STO is STOffed (stuffed) full of bullschnitzel... now that actually makes more sense, rather than using it to replace the f-bomb.
Please re-read the ad above and think for a moment. Most non-gaming consumers know how to really read an ad. And when I first read it I thought you get an extra 30 days on top of the 30 days you get from the online purchase of the game. That equates to a grand total of 60 free days before you get charged.
Now take gaming consumers who have little to no experience when it comes for shopping for anyone else but themselves and for anything other than a want (as appose to a need). They take one look at the ad and automatically assume that you get 30 days for the digital purchase plus an additional 60 days on top of that before you get charged! Well sorry but that's assuming a little too much. And now you have hordes of clueless e-shoppers thinking that they get 90 days of free play when the ad nor the offer states you get 90 days. (All the reps are denying the 90 days as well but good luck explaining that to gamers)
Of course Cryptic's marketing muscle Atari, realizing the mistake it has made by using a old sale pitching technique on a mass of anything other that household shoppers, is backpeddling to do away with the ad and it's confusing offer. And this is on top of the countless original purchasers who will be missing on the additional free month (not 2 like you want to believe) that players will get who took advantage of the promotion.
All I can say that as gamers make a bigger bunk of their gaming purchases online, they best get use to the slick business practices of advertising and sales before they drive themselves into a mindless frenzy every time they forget to read the fine print.
Dude, the box key gives you 30 days, then they mail a 60-day timecode. I think it is you who don't understand and I made an account just to tell you that talking down to people makes you look unintelligent, moreso when you are quite wrong.
The game has been out what........one month?
I am not sure I have ever seen a "triple A" MMO with a popular IP go from bad to worse this fast.
STO may be completely toxic now and I am not sure they will ever recover.
I feel bad for the people that enjoy the game, the people that were jerked around, and the little guy who works on the game that will get fired but had nothing to do with these mistakes.
Kinda makes me wonder exactly how many people who are complaining about this issue has even played STO, haha.
It just seems like people are hoping in the bandwagon because "all the cool kids are doing it." :P
I preordered, I played, I spanked it, I got bored. I played the exchange, I made millions, I had nothing to spend it on, I got bored. I PVPed, I went to social zones, I RPed, I got bored. All that took 2 weeks.
The problem with this backlash is it effects potential buyers as well, which is why people of all walks of life are commenting on this. Something this large doesn't just effect its players, you know.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
Dude, the box key gives you 30 days, then they mail a 60-day timecode. I think it is you who don't understand and I made an account just to tell you that talking down to people makes you look unintelligent, moreso when you are quite wrong.
I'm sorry but since this offer was on their website: Atari.com, I doubt that any box key we given out. If by box key you mean product key, then there are different version of product keys no? So what makes you so sure Cryptic handed out the correct product keys for the promotion? Unless you have a screenshot showing your purchase with a free month attached AND a voucher for 60 days on top of that, then you are still reading too far into the ad.
So I stand by my original opinion based off my own personal experiences on retail until I see proof otherwise.
lolwhat? That's the weak apologist comment. What does playing the game have to do with this fuck up of mass proportions regarding sales & marketing? zero.
People are "jumping on the bandwagon" b/c active, former or non-player a-like can see when something is going horribly wrong or being mishandled from the word go. Being intentionally ignorant to that, makes you no more cultured or enlightened.
I was on the Atari site during the sale and it very clearly said *30-day free trial included with purchase.
Underneath that they stated that they would be mailing a 60-day time code after purchase.
Every boxed copy comes with 30days they cannot separate that from the key. Atari was offering an ADDITIONAL 60 days with it. How you don't get that is just boggling my mind.
I was on the Atari site during the sale and it very clearly said *30-day free trial included with purchase.
Underneath that they stated that they would be mailing a 60-day time code after purchase.
Every boxed copy comes with 30days they cannot separate that from the key. Atari was offering an ADDITIONAL 60 days with it. How you don't get that is just boggling my mind.
It's because of the promotion that I did not associate getting a free additional month as well as a 60 day voucher. Usually when sales promotions are in effect, exclusions are listed. Yes, it is standard practice for developers of MMOs to include a free month to go along with your purchase. But just because it's a traditional practice does not mean it's a right or a given.
Boggle all you want, but my gut tells it this was a case of the right hand not knowing what the left was doing. Atari was offering a promotion without making sure all the details were ironed out while Cryptic dropped the ball on their website by not providing promo product keys or making it clear to gamers that 60 days of free playtime does not mean you get a 60 day gamecard. Huge difference there.
It's because of the promotion that I did not associate getting a free additional month as well as a 60 day voucher. Usually when sales promotions are in effect, exclusions are listed. Yes, it is standard practice for developers of MMOs to include a free month to go along with your purchase. But just because it's a traditional practice does not mean it's a right or a given.
Boggle all you want, but my gut tells it this was a case of the right hand not knowing what the left was doing. Atari was offering a promotion without making sure all the details were ironed out while Cryptic dropped the ball on their website by not providing promo product keys or making it clear to gamers that 60 days of free playtime does not mean you get a 60 day gamecard. Huge difference there.
I'd agree with you but they did very plainly say 60 day timecode. You failed to understand it properly. Deal with it.
It's because of the promotion that I did not associate getting a free additional month as well as a 60 day voucher. Usually when sales promotions are in effect, exclusions are listed. Yes, it is standard practice for developers of MMOs to include a free month to go along with your purchase. But just because it's a traditional practice does not mean it's a right or a given.
Boggle all you want, but my gut tells it this was a case of the right hand not knowing what the left was doing. Atari was offering a promotion without making sure all the details were ironed out while Cryptic dropped the ball on their website by not providing promo product keys or making it clear to gamers that 60 days of free playtime does not mean you get a 60 day gamecard. Huge difference there.
Still, feigning ignorance in a court will only get you so far. "I swear, I had no idea that someone in marketing had posted this request! I also had no idea that our partner; Cryptic Studios had not sent out the promised keys, that in truth don't exist".
It just doesn't add up. Spinning a tale to your customers is one thing, but how can you actually explain this in a court?
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
It's because of the promotion that I did not associate getting a free additional month as well as a 60 day voucher. Usually when sales promotions are in effect, exclusions are listed. Yes, it is standard practice for developers of MMOs to include a free month to go along with your purchase. But just because it's a traditional practice does not mean it's a right or a given.
Boggle all you want, but my gut tells it this was a case of the right hand not knowing what the left was doing. Atari was offering a promotion without making sure all the details were ironed out while Cryptic dropped the ball on their website by not providing promo product keys or making it clear to gamers that 60 days of free playtime does not mean you get a 60 day gamecard. Huge difference there.
I'd agree with you but they did very plainly say 60 day timecode. You failed to understand it properly. Deal with it.
Then providing a screenshot of your email with everything blacked out except for the pertinent information at hand will clear this misunderstanding up. If you cannot show me proof that a 60 day timecard was listed as part of your completed order form then I'd rather go with my intuition than your word, no offense.
It's because of the promotion that I did not associate getting a free additional month as well as a 60 day voucher. Usually when sales promotions are in effect, exclusions are listed. Yes, it is standard practice for developers of MMOs to include a free month to go along with your purchase. But just because it's a traditional practice does not mean it's a right or a given.
Boggle all you want, but my gut tells it this was a case of the right hand not knowing what the left was doing. Atari was offering a promotion without making sure all the details were ironed out while Cryptic dropped the ball on their website by not providing promo product keys or making it clear to gamers that 60 days of free playtime does not mean you get a 60 day gamecard. Huge difference there.
Still, feigning ignorance in a court will only get you so far. "I swear, I had no idea that someone in marketing had posted this request! I also had no idea that our partner; Cryptic Studios had not sent out the promised keys, that in truth don't exist".
It just doesn't add up. Spinning a tale to your customers is one thing, but how can you actually explain this in a court?
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
In retail prices are often misquoted all the time. Depending on the difference in price (a few dollars vs a few hundred dollars) it can be as simple as letting it go and honoring the blunder or going so far as to offer an disclaimer and apology for the price mix up. Both I have seen and experienced. And I see this as a case of something Atari is not willing to let slip through.
Call it fair or shady if you want, but it's all legal and has been practiced in retail since retail existed.
I'd agree with you but they did very plainly say 60 day timecode. You failed to understand it properly. Deal with it.
Then providing a screenshot of your email with everything blacked out except for the pertinent information at hand will clear this misunderstanding up. If you cannot show me proof that a 60 day timecard was listed as part of your completed order form then I'd rather go with my intuition than your word, no offense.
Just... read the STO forums and you will realize that you are failing to defend a stance that was fail in the first place and every time you retort you are just looking worse.
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=131591 Just for one.
I'd agree with you but they did very plainly say 60 day timecode. You failed to understand it properly. Deal with it.
Then providing a screenshot of your email with everything blacked out except for the pertinent information at hand will clear this misunderstanding up. If you cannot show me proof that a 60 day timecard was listed as part of your completed order form then I'd rather go with my intuition than your word, no offense.
Just... read the STO forums and you will realize that you are failing to defend a stance that was fail in the first place and every time you retort you are just looking worse.
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=131591 Just for one.
But I'm not asking them for proof, I'm asking you. I did my research on the official boards and on countless websites and they have all proved to be fruitless in giving me solid proof for what has transpired. So far the only thing I've found was dead links on the official forums and 1 link to a copy of a complaint filed with a CS rep with a response.
But now that I have someone who claims to have completed such a deal, I'm asking you for a copy of your transaction so I can put that part of the debate to rest.
But so far I'm still coming up empty-handed as you are being just as cleverly elusive as Cryptic/Atari in this matter and both sides are staring to wear thin on my Chirst-like tolerance levels.
Um, exactly when did I say I took that deal? I preordered like I said in a previous post in this very thread. Your ' Chirst-like tolerance levels' are no match at all for your lack of intelligence, or apparent inability to master reading comprehension.
I could provide a list as long as my arm of open an closed threads about this, but even if you pretend to read them I doubt you would understand them. I don't say that to be mean, that's my honest opinion.
Agree, Not only do they make shallow, simplistic, and rushed games (2 years to live when most MMORPGs take as many as 4 or more) they run their games terribly. They are in it for the quick cash, not for the kind of profits that come from satisfying customers over the mid to long haul. Cryptic is a cancer to the MMO genre and anyone who gives their games a penny is feeding the demise of the genre.
I won't be as verbose, but I agree :)
Um, exactly when did I say I took that deal? I preordered like I said in a previous post in this very thread. Your ' Chirst-like tolerance levels' are no match at all for your lack of intelligence, or apparent inability to master reading comprehension.
I could provide a list as long as my arm of open an closed threads about this, but even if you pretend to read them I doubt you would understand them. I don't say that to be mean, that's my honest opinion.
Then I offer my apologies for my obvious misunderstanding. I thought I was finally dealing with someone that the promotion actually effected, not another useless champion for justice. And those are just about as useful as dead links that people claim are screenshots of their order.
There was one other poster that stated that he took advantage of the offer for him and his wife, but failed to produce any evidence to support his claim as well. Also in the future, saying you read about the promotion with your own eyes and claimed to have seen first hand the listing of a 60 day gamecard being included with the deal along with a 30 day free month with purchase is hearsay.
If you have not actually MADE the purchase then your accounts of the facts run the possibility of appearing to be fabrications thought up to support a bias stance against the company when no more of those viewpoints are needed in the discussion. Right now I'm looking for evidence not fighting battles with forum jockeys.
Just remember, we've always been at war with Oceana
i even have pictures of it, i facti've ben recording the adventures of the USS Failboat since CO
http://s182.photobucket.com/albums/x202/NekoLLX/Cryptic/
Here's another kicker
We STILL don't have the female Mirror Universe Uniforms promosed with CO Lifetime, they said they are working on it but have no definite date of this item promised /7/ months ago.
God i could have a sex change, ger knocked up and deliver a baby before gals get Mirror Universe at this rate
Then I offer my apologies for my obvious misunderstanding. I thought I was finally dealing with someone that the promotion actually effected, not another useless champion for justice. And those are just about as useful as dead links that people claim are screenshots of their order.
There was one other poster that stated that he took advantage of the offer for him and his wife, but failed to produce any evidence to support his claim as well. Also in the future, saying you read about the promotion with your own eyes and claimed to have seen first hand the listing of a 60 day gamecard being included with the deal along with a 30 day free month with purchase is hearsay.
If you have not actually MADE the purchase then your accounts of the facts run the possibility of appearing to be fabrications thought up to support a bias stance against the company when no more of those viewpoints are needed in the discussion. Right now I'm looking for evidence not fighting battles with forum jockeys.
Um, wow even when you admit you're wrong you can't admit you're wrong. Seriously there are an obscenely large number of posts about this in the STO forums and if you can't find one I am dumbfounded by your ineptitude. That aside I'm not going to dignify any of your further statements as when you lose the argument you simply attempt to poison the thought well and drag in another argument that has nothing to do with the point of our discourse up to now.
Learn some humility or choke on hubris. Up to you.
I'd agree with you but they did very plainly say 60 day timecode. You failed to understand it properly. Deal with it.
Then providing a screenshot of your email with everything blacked out except for the pertinent information at hand will clear this misunderstanding up. If you cannot show me proof that a 60 day timecard was listed as part of your completed order form then I'd rather go with my intuition than your word, no offense.
pictures? there's a Site for that
http://s182.photobucket.com/albums/x202/NekoLLX/Cryptic/
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=131591
This is an interesting new thread....
Atari's legal department is now involved. Looks like Atari must have gotten a strong wake up call about what they have been doing. Perhaps all the threats of taking the issue to the BBB and AG must have done something.
-Vox
This is not true sir! My own business has never had to do that, though we do not have the volume of comsumers like Cryptic and Bioware. We are not BBB Accredited and have never had to pay to maintain the score we have with them.
Perhaps. Can't imagine Bioware getting a F-score though. *shrugs* nothing can really explain that.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
I looked up Bioware's BBB rating: www.bbb.org/edmonton/business-reviews/computers-system-designers-and-consultants/bioware-in-edmonton-ab-111723
" * BBB does not have sufficient background information on this business.
* Failure to respond to one complaint filed against business."
Bioware could probably very easily get a good rating. It seems like video game companies generally don't care about the BBB.
By contrast, here is Cryptic's BBB page: sanjose.bbb.org/Business-Report/Cryptic-Studios-221613
Here we see a total of 43 complaints(!) 35 of them were unanswered by the company.
My thoughts are as usual "why is the mmo crowd so bitchy?". On the one hand you've got folks constantly throwing there 2-3 lifetime subs in your face and all of a sudden a sale that has no adverse effect on gameplay has the forums up in arms. Also though I'd also like to note while there is a fair number of posts complaining about it there's probably an equal number of people just constantly bumping up the negative posts each other are making (atleast that's what I noticed).
Please re-read the ad above and think for a moment. Most non-gaming consumers know how to really read an ad. And when I first read it I thought you get an extra 30 days on top of the 30 days you get from the online purchase of the game. That equates to a grand total of 60 free days before you get charged.
Now take gaming consumers who have little to no experience when it comes for shopping for anyone else but themselves and for anything other than a want (as appose to a need). They take one look at the ad and automatically assume that you get 30 days for the digital purchase plus an additional 60 days on top of that before you get charged! Well sorry but that's assuming a little too much. And now you have hordes of clueless e-shoppers thinking that they get 90 days of free play when the ad nor the offer states you get 90 days. (All the reps are denying the 90 days as well but good luck explaining that to gamers)
Of course Cryptic's marketing muscle Atari, realizing the mistake it has made by using a old sale pitching technique on a mass of anything other that household shoppers, is backpeddling to do away with the ad and it's confusing offer. And this is on top of the countless original purchasers who will be missing on the additional free month (not 2 like you want to believe) that players will get who took advantage of the promotion.
All I can say that as gamers make a bigger bunk of their gaming purchases online, they best get use to the slick business practices of advertising and sales before they drive themselves into a mindless frenzy every time they forget to read the fine print.
Except that the original ad copy said: "Limited time double bonus! Buy Star Trek Online Collector's Edition before 9pm PST on Wed March 3rd and get FREE SHIPPING (* lower 48 states only) and extra 60 days free!" Later the ad copy said something about "additional 60 days game time!"
People were also e-mailed 60 day time codes on top of the box code which always comes with 30 days game time.
That's kind of the reason I don't want any part of STO anymore. Troll bait attracts trolls and they have pretty fiercely strangled that forum. Objective questions and suggestions are very quickly found at the bottom of the thread stack.
Except that the original ad copy said: "Limited time double bonus! Buy Star Trek Online Collector's Edition before 9pm PST on Wed March 3rd and get FREE SHIPPING (* lower 48 states only) and extra 60 days free!" Later the ad copy said something about "additional 60 days game time!"
People were also e-mailed 60 day time codes on top of the box code which always comes with 30 days game time.
OMG thank you for saying that.
And for every constructive legitimate thread or post made about this issue and how it effects the community (Which has a HUGE effect on game play) there is of course a fanboi, content to stick his fingers in his ears and tell us we are all crazy all the while whistling the star trek theme.
All I got to say is epic fail. I am glad that I did not get involved with cryptic. Once bitten twice shy.
There is no way on this earth I would ever ever give cryptic any money. I hope they get sued out of existance by the folks who bough it then had the 60 days downgraded to 30.
Very shady that entire thing is.
Thanks for the links Nekolix! This is what Curs0r must be referring to:
Looking above note the wording in bold. In particular note how it's mentioned that you will get a double bonus. Not triple as others will have you believe. If it were truly 3 months 30 days w/purchase + 60 days in addition, then it would be included in the promo's description no?
Now look at the wording at the bottom: Subscription Required- 30 Day trial included with purchase.
Now please note that this isn't included with the body of the promo description, it's separate from it and follows the game description. Call it laziness on the part of Cryptic but it's part of the website that's normally there anyway. And I can see how some people would mistake this as meaning that ANOTHER 30 days is included making the promo a triple bonus, but it's not.
Now this screenshot shows what the purchasing screen looked like before (or after) the promo. Note that the same words:
Subscription Required- 30 Day trial included with purchase
is still in there and in the same spot. This tells me that the above screenshot showing the promo description was nothing more than a plug-in. And that the 30 Day trial included statement would be there with or without a promo involved.
It also goes to show me that players are reaching for an extra month even when the official promo description states that players will receive double the time they normally would and NOT triple. Make of it as you will but I stand by my original point.
Until I get a screenshot of a player that made the actual PURCHASE (which would include a breakdown of the services to be expected) I cannot think that a mere misunderstanding of a promo webpage holds enough weight to warrant a fraud lawsuit.
What's weird is that those images prove the opposite of your take on the situation. Stay in school kids.
I went back through the advertisements. I think I can fix this. Many have said that they should receive 90 days additional game time. The advertisement said 60 days. Not 90. I hope this helps.
Have a nice day!
You get a boxed set and a 60 day key they have to honor it, the guy in the STO forum post I put in here earlier and said Atari contacted him and he did get 90 days.
Interesting how you completely ignore the parts that say "extra 60 days" and "additional 60 days." You're cherry picking to suit your own beliefs.
Directly from the ad copy: "Limited time double bonus! Buy Star Trek Online Collector's Edition before 9pm PST on Wed March 3rd and get FREE SHIPPING (* lower 48 states only) and extra 60 days free!"
"Your code for additional 60 days will be included in your emailed transaction confirmation."
I bolded, underlined and put it in italics as well as put it in bright yellow so that you won't miss it.
It clearly says you get a DOUBLE bonus not that it doubles your subscription time! It says double because
A) 10$ off of the purchase price
AND
B) 60 days extra
that sir IS a double bonus.
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showpost.php?p=2280782&postcount=493
I just saw this, apparently they haven't appeased everyone who ordered over the weekend yet.
As well as the free shipping, which could be considered another bonus.
It's hilarious that Ramonski7 has been proven wrong time after time, yet he refuses to concede.
Let me spell this out for you.
The standard edition, all standard edition keys, without exception, come with 30 days trial time, subscription required. Once you enter your game serial you get that time.
The atari statement is 60 days bonus time to your subscription.
Both are credited to your subscription. This has been hashed on the STO forum already. I don't know why we have to discuss it here if you need it explained more clearly go there and read up please.
Let me spell this out for you.
The standard edition, all standard edition keys, without exception, come with 30 days trial time, subscription required. Once you enter your game serial you get that time.
The atari statement is 60 days bonus time to your subscription.
Both are credited to your subscription. This has been hashed on the STO forum already. I don't know why we have to discuss it here if you need it explained more clearly go there and read up please.
He was agreeing with you.
He was agreeing with you.
I saw that after I posted, didn't have time to edit. I'm gunshy from being jumped by every troll on the STO forums. Sorry Mahuloq.
Hey wow, I can admit my mistakes! Neato maybe it'll catch on.
He was agreeing with you.
I saw that after I posted, didn't have time to edit. I'm gunshy from being jumped by every troll on the STO forums. Sorry Mahuloq.
Hey wow, I can admit my mistakes! Neato maybe it'll catch on.
You bring up an interesting point here. There does seem to be some communication error here on the part of readers (Proving that you really need to read everything thoroughly before you press the "Pay Now!" Button).
As I know all too well, misunderstanding can get you into a lot of trouble. In Cryptic/Atari's Defense, it would seem they are taking efforts to honor such a deal, even if such a deal never actually existed, which at least makes me think they are working with the customers, rather than against them.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
You're still not getting it. If they TRULY were giving away 90 free days it would be included in the promo description, no? It would say:
Limited time triple bonus! Buy Star Trek Online PC-DVD before 9pm PST on Wed
March 3rd and get $10 off and extra 90 days free! Your code for additional 90 days will
be included in your email transaction confirmation.
But then again many would take that to mean that they get 90 days + 30 free days with the purchase of the game.
Then we'd all be back at square one again. It was simple a misunderstanding of the way the description of the promo was taken by some people.
A more effective way would be to write it as such so even the average person would get it:
Limited time double bonus! Buy Star Trek Online PC-DVD before 9pm PST on Wed March 3rd and get $10 off and extra 60 days free! That means in addition to the standard 30 days that's included with your purchase, you will receive an extra 30 days of free play! Your code for additional 60 days (instead of 30 days) will be included in your email transaction confirmation.
But like I said that's just me. I didn't get the picture that I would be getting that much time for free. But then again it's the first time I've seen this type of promo used for a MMO. And I've been around for a while.
Some people will go to any length to deny reality, amazing. What could be more clear that $39 for the box and an extra 60 days of gametime? The box normally comes with 30 days gametime, both the std and CE version, therefore the "extra 60 days" is in addition to that 30 days for a total of 90 days; otherwise it is not extra it is just 60 days gametime.
Shall we argue whether the Sun is hot or not next?
Good lord, maybe they would say what your saying if they were giving 90 days or only 30 more days. Those 30 days you get with your purchase is a guaranteed it isn't "free" you get it with your purchase. You are getting your : 30 days for the purchase of the product + 60 days extra for this promotion. God we are getting epicly trolled by this guy or he is just dense.
I am seriously beginning to think this is just a bid for attention.
The whole situation is their own fault. All they had to do to prevent falling into this mess was make the game they were promising at the very beginning. Instead they made a piece of crap. Well, you reap what you sow.
Understand this, most players automatically assume that every MMO that is released has to give you 30 days worth of gametime and up until this point developers have catered to this practice. But in reality they don't have to give you jack.
Now the screw up with Atari/Cryptic is that most players that they are trying to entice are assuming that on top of the 30 days that they are getting for purchasing the game, that Atari will give them 60 more. But technically since there is no binding stipulation that dictates that they HAVE to given you 30 days in the first place, they can wordplay off that and say they ARE giving you 60 days. And in the technical sense they are giving you an extra 60 days on top of the zero you get when you make this promo purchase.
The only saving grace that players at this point have is the small description at the bottom of the purchasing screenshot that says players get a 30 day trial with their purchase. But that only goes as far as Atari wants it to. They can either put a disclaimer out to discredit that bit of information for this promo or simply say that a trial to unlock Klingons will be issued for 30 days. Either way it goes, so far no one has come up with a actual screenshot of what a final purchase screen included and without that we can speculate all night long about the situation.
Understand this, most players automatically assume that every MMO that is released has to give you 30 days worth of gametime and up until this point developers have catered to this practice. But in reality they don't have to give you jack.
Now the screw up with Atari/Cryptic is that most players that they are trying to entice are assuming that on top of the 30 days that they are getting for purchasing the game, that Atari will give them 60 more. But technically since there is no binding stipulation that dictates that they HAVE to given you 30 days in the first place, they can wordplay off that and say they ARE giving you 60 days. And in the technical sense they are giving you an extra 60 days on top of the zero you get when you make this promo purchase.
The only saving grace that players at this point have is the small description at the bottom of the purchasing screenshot that says players get a 30 day trial with their purchase. But that only goes as far as Atari wants it to. They can either put a disclaimer out to discredit that bit of information for this promo or simply say that a trial to unlock Klingons will be issued for 30 days. Either way it goes, so far no one has come up with a actual screenshot of what a final purchase screen included and without that we can speculate all night long about the situation.
Except that there is an asterisk and a disclaimer saying the the box comes standard with 30 days game time as you pointed out to us already (then tried to claim was the result of sloppy website design.)
Amazing.
You seem to hate reading, so I'll repeat what I lifted directly from the ad copy again:
"Your code for additional 60 days will be included in your emailed transaction confirmation."
Source: This screenshot: s182.photobucket.com/albums/x202/NekoLLX/Cryptic/
Therefor, because the ad copy said it would, the final transaction confirmation e-mail will include a code for "additional 60 days" of game time.
How is this hard to understand? You buy the box for $10 off, it comes standard with 30 days game time, there is no way to separate that game time from the retail key you get with the box, plus they send you a code for an additional 60 days of game time. You get two keys: one for your retail copy of the game, one for the additional 60 days game time. You then have 90 days of game time because of the retail key + the code for 60 days of game time they send you in an e-mail.
Further it doesn't matter even the tiniest bit what most players assume, that has absolutely nothing to do with anything. That's just a red herring and a pointless aside on how you think the MMO industry works. Cryptic/Atari sells a game, STO, that always comes standard with 30 days game time included.
Still, feigning ignorance in a court will only get you so far. "I swear, I had no idea that someone in marketing had posted this request! I also had no idea that our partner; Cryptic Studios had not sent out the promised keys, that in truth don't exist".
It just doesn't add up. Spinning a tale to your customers is one thing, but how can you actually explain this in a court?
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
In retail prices are often misquoted all the time. Depending on the difference in price (a few dollars vs a few hundred dollars) it can be as simple as letting it go and honoring the blunder or going so far as to offer an disclaimer and apology for the price mix up. Both I have seen and experienced. And I see this as a case of something Atari is not willing to let slip through.
Call it fair or shady if you want, but it's all legal and has been practiced in retail since retail existed.
EXCEPT for the fact that the original response provided on Cryptic's site from their own people (which I read with my own eyes, before it was altered because someone posted the advertisement materials straight off the Atari website - and several other websites - proving the opposite) was that, despite what was on the parent company's site, the additional sixty days was - and I quote - "never part of the deal."
At that point, when you have made a sixty day time code part of a special deal and a major selling point, then yes, it is not only shady, but illegal, to renege on that when it is a large part of why customers have purchased a product. What makes it illegal is when you refuse to refund the customer's money because they did not receive the product that was advertised - which, by all accounts, is exactly what Atari did in this case. Atari had to come back and decide to honor that deal for those who purchased it before they pulled the deal (three days earlier than the promotional materials indicated - the deal was supposed to run through 3 March 2010) because failure to do so would have subjected them to several investigations from Attorneys General here in the US as well as several investigations from overseas agencies, not to mention a whole host of class-action litigations because the TOS and EULA do not cover refusing to provide advertised product.
Understand this, most players automatically assume that every MMO that is released has to give you 30 days worth of gametime and up until this point developers have catered to this practice. But in reality they don't have to give you jack.
The box itself states that 30 days of gametime is included with purchase - so a promotion for the box and an "extra 60 days" equates to 90 days. But please, go on arguing against the obvious and otherwise making ridiculous statements apologizing for an something so obvious.
I never expected much out of Atari. Everything they release is a disappointment. They even managed to destroy the beloved Neverwinter Nights series.
Atari has done nothing but emit failure since it entered the console business, and does nothing but exude failure in the software business. Atari should have just gave up long ago. Maybe they could take that money they steal from people and clean up their mess of ET Games in New Mexico.
But I guess their current owner is too busy playing make believe "Swordquest" with his 18k gold jewel-encrusted, pure-silver bladed sword to care anymore.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
Ya know I just happen to have one of those ET Games in my closet
I will point out one thing in their defense. They offered ( and lived up to their offer) of giving a full refund to everyone that pre-orded ( ie paid for it prior to the offical launch) the lifetime or yearly subsctiption. i know almost everyone ( that had a lifetime or yearly) in the house I belong to took them up on their offer last week and we all recieved our refunds on friday.
they addmitted way back when that it included champions online accounts it also included all the pre-order accounts many of which never activated their accounts with a retail key.
BBB ratings are not alwasy accurate as to the company. As an example say someone files a complaint about a company claiming that they were charged X dollars instead of B dollars. 1 Now if the the company goes well our records show you were charged B dollars but if you can show up proff you were charged X dollars we will refund the difference. Now if they customer shockingly does not have a proof say a recipe or a cancelled check or credit card bill showing they were charged X dollars the company does not refund their money however it will show as an issue that was not resolved to the customers satisfaction and count against them. Also most people do not report to the BBB when a company does something good only the bad. So the rattign in and of itself is not an accurate rattign of a company you have to actually see how many complaints and what they actually where.
i even have pictures of it, i facti've ben recording the adventures of the USS Failboat since CO
http://s182.photobucket.com/albums/x202/NekoLLX/Cryptic/
Here's another kicker
We STILL don't have the female Mirror Universe Uniforms promosed with CO Lifetime, they said they are working on it but have no definite date of this item promised /7/ months ago.
God i could have a sex change, ger knocked up and deliver a baby before gals get Mirror Universe at this rate
you forgot the joined trill for the klingon side as well is not ingame even though they clarrified that the klingon faction would infact get it and even on launch day said they were working out why it was not ingame.
actually it proves their point not yours. It shows the 60 day stime card and also that the game includes 30 days. that adds up to 90 days. I would suggest you take a course in contract law if you stil do not understand that.
What is it with this Ramonski?
I don't understand why he is so rabidly defending this fraud scandal?? Boggles my mind.
People involved have said time and time again, that when they placed the order in the weekend, they received a retail key, wich gave them 30 days.
And ON TOP of that they received a 60 days bonus code, wich was immediately retracted afterwards and no longer accessable to them the moment ATARI retracted the whole thing and started claiming the whole thing never existed.
So Yes! Yes! People were suppose to get 90 days! 30 days with the retail key and another 60 days with the bonus code.
Jer
The point is they are perfectlly within their rigths to say it was not part of the deal if infact it was published ( the add) by mistake. They can then retract the offer and remove the adds. They would cliam that as soon as it was brought to their attention they removed them. Their options to the customers who purhcased under the 'mistaken offer" is to either refund their full purchase price or agree to live up to the agreement for those limited customers only. They woudl win in court as long as the court aggreed that they corrected the add in a timely manner and dealt with their customers in either of the aformentioned ways.
Now seeing how just last week they refunded the prepaid lifetimes and yearly sub fees to any who claimed them before the weekend I would tend to give them the benifit of the doubt that there was an error made. Is it bad PR yes.
What is it with this Ramonski?
I don't understand why he is so rabidly defending this fraud scandal?? Boggles my mind.
People involved have said time and time again, that when they placed the order in the weekend, they received a retail key, wich gave them 30 days.
And ON TOP of that they received a 60 days bonus code, wich was immediately retracted afterwards and no longer accessable to them the moment ATARI retracted the whole thing and started claiming the whole thing never existed.
So Yes! Yes! People were suppose to get 90 days! 30 days with the retail key and another 60 days with the bonus code.
Jer
actually, i think he either can not undstand the add or is so invested in his OP that he can not admit he is in error.
But in this case it isn't. I have witnessed myself plenty of add mistakes over the years. Even involved in one myself when working at a store during my student years.
The mistakes were always admitted. People honestly informed. And people affected were either compensated by honoring the original add or refunding them the money.
Now in this case. ATARI just bluntly retracted the add. And immediately took a stance by saying the add NEVER existed. Everyone that mentioned anything related to the original add on their forums were INSTA banned! Any customer that tried to contact them got the phone hung up on them!
The first "damage control" message on Cryptic's STO forums was this:
Hello,
We understand your frustration. While you may have seen or heard about a special that Atari offered as a temporary incentive to order the game through them, it is not a permanent change. In addition, the special being offered does NOT include any extra free game time. It is the same 30 day free trial, but indeed the cost of the game is temporarily $10 cheaper through Atari's website if ordering directly. The special is not going to be available forever or to replace previous subscriptions. If you feel differently about the issue or have further concerns, we encourage you to contact Atari directly at http://www.atari.com/ - they have a community section for open discussion as well. We thank you for your understanding in this manner.
Regards, Cryptic Studios Support
Wich was later that day altered into a different message. And later again, with another disclamer.
So here you have Cryptic doing damage control on their own forums (and an amateuristic and bad one that is, behind the back of their own Parent company ATARI, who still takes it's stance that the offer NEVER existed. Eventho the original add is popping up on all sites all over the internet (hilarious).
As of today, you still see people affected (who aren't banned yet) trying to post on the STO forums asking what to do, as ATARI support isn't willing to help them and keeps them in an endless loophole in the support chain.
And people that managed to get an answer from ATARI support were told that they should have received a refund email. But they never did. One person I know myself, is waiting for 2 days now for that refund email. Wich I honestly belief just doesn't exist and just another ATARI trick to send you to the locker.
And to add even more fuel to this scandal. Appearently Cryptic got so many Lifetime refund requests over the weekend, that the management at Cryptic suddenly retracted the refund option that same monday morning. While people still had days left to request a refund! So after monday morning, people suddenly got ZERO on request on their refund request. While they are still within their 30-days!
You do the math on this whole situation.
As seriously. In my whole life, I have never seen this kind of stuff happen before. Not like this.
Jer
Crypic to Atari...
We can't take another hit captain, the ships about to blow!!!
Sorry, couldn't help myself :-)
But in this case it isn't. I have witnessed myself plenty of add mistakes over the years. Even involved in one myself when working at a store during my student years.
The mistakes were always admitted. People honestly informed. And people affected were either compensated by honoring the original add or refunding them the money.
Now in this case. ATARI just bluntly retracted the add. And immediately took a stance by saying the add NEVER existed. Everyone that mentioned anything related to the original add on their forums were INSTA banned! Any customer that tried to contact them got the phone hung up on them!
The first "damage control" message on Cryptic's STO forums was this:
Hello,
We understand your frustration. While you may have seen or heard about a special that Atari offered as a temporary incentive to order the game through them, it is not a permanent change. In addition, the special being offered does NOT include any extra free game time. It is the same 30 day free trial, but indeed the cost of the game is temporarily $10 cheaper through Atari's website if ordering directly. The special is not going to be available forever or to replace previous subscriptions. If you feel differently about the issue or have further concerns, we encourage you to contact Atari directly at http://www.atari.com/ - they have a community section for open discussion as well. We thank you for your understanding in this manner.
Regards, Cryptic Studios Support
Wich was later that day altered into a different message. And later again, with another disclamer.
So here you have Cryptic doing damage control on their own forums (and an amateuristic and bad one that is, behind the back of their own Parent company ATARI, who still takes it's stance that the offer NEVER existed. Eventho the original add is popping up on all sites all over the internet (hilarious).
As of today, you still see people affected (who aren't banned yet) trying to post on the STO forums asking what to do, as ATARI support isn't willing to help them and keeps them in an endless loophole in the support chain.
And people that managed to get an answer from ATARI support were told that they should have received a refund email. But they never did. One person I know myself, is waiting for 2 days now for that refund email. Wich I honestly belief just doesn't exist and just another ATARI trick to send you to the locker.
And to add even more fuel to this scandal. Appearently Cryptic got so many Lifetime refund requests over the weekend, that the management at Cryptic suddenly retracted the refund option that same monday morning. While people still had days left to request a refund! So after monday morning, people suddenly got ZERO on request on their refund request. While they are still within their 30-days!
You do the math on this whole situation.
As seriously. In my whole life, I have never seen this kind of stuff happen before. Not like this.
Jer
Actually, the refund offer for the pre-order yearly and lifetimes subscriptions was suppose to end on Monday so the fact that it did is not wrong. Unless ,there was a different one, the one I took advantage of was good untill the first of Feb not till the end of someones first 30 days. Addtionally, if they restracted the add on Monday the two day wait for people who then requested a refund would not be till today. When i requested my refund of my yearly subscription it did infact take two full days. I actually recived the email on the morning on the second full day and the credit appeared on my card latter that day.The response you posted from them is perfectly fine. While not admitting liability it does retract any apparent offer of an extra 60 days. It is just phrased in lawyer speak instead of in plain English. If infact they did not intend to make an offer for an extra 60 days then infact the offer 'never' existed." As for how they are handling people well that is a different matter. I do know they closed down all but one thread on the subject on their forums and asked for people to all post there instead of makign new ones. As for people being banned well I can not comment on that as I do not know the actuall reasons for the banns. I do know that some people have posted that they have infact received a refund from Atari for a purchases based on the 'mistaken" add.
Cryptics PR relations office must be the worst ever. First the CO debacle with the paid content addition and now this.
Thank you Lanthir.
This here was the just of my argument to begin with. Some people looked at the screenshots I posted and saw 90 free days and I looked at the screenshot and saw 60 free days. I later pointed out why Cryptic may have back peddled on the deal and under what reasons they might give. I compared this to how similar situations occur all the time in retail stores and how hard it is to bring up the fraud charge against a business for something so blatantly common.
Then Lanthir posted his actual experience on the matter with his situation when dealing with his refund from the company. And got his refund in a timely manner despite the flood of request I'm sure Cryptic received on the matter. But I was met with nothing but stones, insults and disregard. I think a lot of posters and gamers in general will have to come to grips with their emotions when dealing with others in heated situations. Something proven in this very thread that many are lacking.
If someone has a different way of looking at things than yourself it does not mean that they are dense, illiterate, trolling or blind (all which I was pelted with). It simply means that not everyone's experiences lead to only one possible outcome.
the reporters are fairly busy, i'm sure, as to not have time to get so lost in the details.
I've never seen a company so prone to shooting itself in the foot so unnecessarily.
All Cryptic/Atari had to do was to give all non-lifetime subscribers 1-2 extra months of gameplay. They could have given the Lifetime subscribers 300-500 Cryptic Points and the whole thing would have blown over.
The timing of this sale blew goats, trying to reverse the sale mid-stream was an even worse idea.
All I can say is the game had better last more than 18 months or they're going to get hit with a Class Action suit from the Lifers.
No they can't. This is called "false advertising" and is completely illegal. They have to honour what they advertised at the time, no matter what. They can end the sale early and no longer offer it after they ended the sale, but as long as it's published they have to honour the advertised sale price.
If WalMart prints a flyer that mistakenly offers Playstation 3s for $29.99 they have to sell people those Playstation 3s for thirty bucks.
No they can't. This is called "false advertising" and is completely illegal. They have to honour what they advertised at the time, no matter what. They can end the sale early and no longer offer it after they ended the sale, but as long as it's published they have to honour the advertised sale price.
If WalMart prints a flyer that mistakenly offers Playstation 3s for $29.99 they have to sell people those Playstation 3s for thirty bucks.
This is the blatant knee-jerking I knew would pop up. This is certainly NOT a case of false advertisement as first you have to prove that the defendant is trying to deceive customers into buying something that they already know they will NOT deliver on. And since we all know now that:
You cannot prove in a US court of law that it was a malicious attempt to deceive consumers nor was it a case of blatant fraud. This is what I was trying to get at in my original post. Gamers work themselves up in a mindless frenzy every time something fails to go their way. Is the situation irritating? Yes. Does it point out miscommunication between publishers and developers? Yes. Does that mean that every time a mistake is made customers will get their choice in compensation? Not really.
And for the record if Walmart had a flyer listing PS3s for $29.99 and EVERYONE truly knows that they are never that cheap, you can bet on seeing a small sign taped on the display posting that the ad for PS3s in that weeks flyer was a mistake and not Walmart nor any other retailer would ever take a hit on a snafu that big. And obviously giving away 90 days of free gametime is a snafu Atari is not willing to swallow.
Any deal with Atari is like a snake in the grass, you never know when it is going to bite you.
Best thing to do is to stay far away from Atari and Cryptic and their games. Only fools play with live snakes.
Thank you Lanthir.
This here was the just of my argument to begin with. Some people looked at the screenshots I posted and saw 90 free days and I looked at the screenshot and saw 60 free days. I later pointed out why Cryptic may have back peddled on the deal and under what reasons they might give. I compared this to how similar situations occur all the time in retail stores and how hard it is to bring up the fraud charge against a business for something so blatantly common.
Then Lanthir posted his actual experience on the matter with his situation when dealing with his refund from the company. And got his refund in a timely manner despite the flood of request I'm sure Cryptic received on the matter. But I was met with nothing but stones, insults and disregard. I think a lot of posters and gamers in general will have to come to grips with their emotions when dealing with others in heated situations. Something proven in this very thread that many are lacking.
If someone has a different way of looking at things than yourself it does not mean that they are dense, illiterate, trolling or blind (all which I was pelted with). It simply means that not everyone's experiences lead to only one possible outcome.
If there was no original 30 days of free play time then there would be no need for the word "Extra" when they say an Extra 60 days of free game time.
Face it, you've been proven wrong beyond a shadow of a doubt and you need to quit. Seriously you got called different things because thats how your acting. Use logic and reason in your debates and discussions and not some blind faith where you try and deny the facts and the evidence presented. You were wrong, get over it and move on.
Now as far as the deal goes, they made the offer and people purchased it. They are now responsible for making good or offering refunds. Those are there only 2 options to avoid legal action. Thats a fact. They can say now that it was a mistake or never existed if they wish but the fact of the matter is people purchased the product based on the offer presented and Atari is now responsible for making good on that offer because they did not make the retraction prior to people purchasing the product. Trying to do so after the fact = lawsuit.
Whoever was the bright spark to think up 39.99 and 60 days extra at this period of time from launch should be spoken to.
lol they will likely be following Daeke soon. The last thing Cryptic needed at this point was even more bad press. They've quickly made SOE not look so bad.
No they can't. This is called "false advertising" and is completely illegal. They have to honour what they advertised at the time, no matter what. They can end the sale early and no longer offer it after they ended the sale, but as long as it's published they have to honour the advertised sale price.
If WalMart prints a flyer that mistakenly offers Playstation 3s for $29.99 they have to sell people those Playstation 3s for thirty bucks.
actually, no they do not. lets use your play station example. If an add was suppose to say 299.90 and said 29.99 they can just restract the add as it is clearly a mistake they would problbly put up a sign on their doors and also where the playstations were statting there was a mistake and how the add should have said 299.90. This is because it clearly is an error. Now in the case at hand they add went up over the weekend on the first buisness day they retracted it which a court would construe as in a timely manner. As I said they have two options to deal with the people who purchase the item over the weekend. Honor the mistaken offer for them or refund in total. What they can not do is tell those people it was a mistake and force them to live with what the add should have stated.
Thank you Lanthir.
This here was the just of my argument to begin with. Some people looked at the screenshots I posted and saw 90 free days and I looked at the screenshot and saw 60 free days. I later pointed out why Cryptic may have back peddled on the deal and under what reasons they might give. I compared this to how similar situations occur all the time in retail stores and how hard it is to bring up the fraud charge against a business for something so blatantly common.
Then Lanthir posted his actual experience on the matter with his situation when dealing with his refund from the company. And got his refund in a timely manner despite the flood of request I'm sure Cryptic received on the matter. But I was met with nothing but stones, insults and disregard. I think a lot of posters and gamers in general will have to come to grips with their emotions when dealing with others in heated situations. Something proven in this very thread that many are lacking.
If someone has a different way of looking at things than yourself it does not mean that they are dense, illiterate, trolling or blind (all which I was pelted with). It simply means that not everyone's experiences lead to only one possible outcome.
I think the problem was how you worded your arguments. It clearly sounded like you were arguing that it was not 60+30 for 90 days but 60 days intotal. Perhaps you were trying to mean it was not 90 +30. However, it did not come across as that which is why people were taking issue with your arguments.
I love this post. I was kinda thinking the same. Even though AO is old as dirt, and AoC still is not living up to the original hype both are still going and doing well. We need to find some clever name to call Cryptic Studios like "Failcom" and "Flagshipped."
Now when people are ripped off they can say someone STO'd from them.
One of the problems with MMOs is that players always want a bigger and newer player base, but they don't want new players to have what they had. You can't have both.
Whether it's a pricing deal or special in game items etc, eventually by offering those same items/deals to newer players they can bring in even more players. But there is such a feeling in the MMO community of not wanting others to get what they got without as much (or more) time/work put into it.
Honestly I'm all for game companies offering good deals to get more players into their games, because as a player I always like to have a bigger player base around. But I also don't play STO
Has nothing to do with patience. Overall..many people liked the game. I like the game still and was glad to purchase at the time. Blame Cryptic all you want for the game itself...in regards to this greedy move, however, Atari is the villain . I myself could care less about $10 savings...by itself...but the extra 60 days was what really irked me. i have removed my payment method and will continue to play until it runs out...then I will decide just how much i like the game. AoC is my other game...and I was pleasantly surprised by how much i like Darkfall (playing the trial). ..so there is certainly no lack of mmos (and other) games to occupy my time and reduce my disposable income. Then...with the WOW expansion coming toward the year's end and TOR..as well as numerous other mmos on the horizon...well...it's just not wise to piss off your player base with so many options to be explored...it was stupid to do years ago and even more so now. Even the die-hard fans of well loved IPs like Star Trek will not tolerate a total buggering of their loyalty. I think SWG proved this.
** there were many complaints on the forum...concerning firstly...the price reduction and extra time..and then secondly..the removal of promised time and refusal to acknowledge or refund purchasers of the promo. Many of these people have been barred...banned pending adjudication of the infraction and the posts subsequently removed. I supported the game ..even after sudden changes right before launch...but this went too far. Way to go Atari. the 2600 was my first gaming "rig" (lol) back in the early 80's and it saddens me to think of these impostors who purchased the name "Atari" and continue to make it commensurate with "shit".
Now when people are ripped off they can say someone STO'd from them.
I think ATARDED...or ATARAPED would be more fitting and reflective of where the problem truly lies.
This is the blatant knee-jerking I knew would pop up. This is certainly NOT a case of false advertisement as first you have to prove that the defendant is trying to deceive customers into buying something that they already know they will NOT deliver on. And since we all know now that:
You cannot prove in a US court of law that it was a malicious attempt to deceive consumers nor was it a case of blatant fraud. This is what I was trying to get at in my original post. Gamers work themselves up in a mindless frenzy every time something fails to go their way. Is the situation irritating? Yes. Does it point out miscommunication between publishers and developers? Yes. Does that mean that every time a mistake is made customers will get their choice in compensation? Not really.
And for the record if Walmart had a flyer listing PS3s for $29.99 and EVERYONE truly knows that they are never that cheap, you can bet on seeing a small sign taped on the display posting that the ad for PS3s in that weeks flyer was a mistake and not Walmart nor any other retailer would ever take a hit on a snafu that big. And obviously giving away 90 days of free gametime is a snafu Atari is not willing to swallow.
What you can prove or not prove in a court of law is not as relevant as the PR impacts this stunt will have. Are Cryptic/Atari withint their rights to do what they did? No idea, Im not a lawyer.
Do I as a customer feel like this is a PR disaster? Yes I do.
All the people who bought the life-time subs must be so happy right now... I'll be amazed if any of them are still logging in 18 months from now.
Most of the lifetime and yearly sub people i knew ingame all took advantage of the offer last week to have their accounts switched to a monthly and have recieved a refund.
The entire debate - both here and on STO forums- reminds me of the famous scene in the movie "all the president's men " where Bernstein makes a call to the White House librarian about Howard Hunt . Denial in the face of solid proof doesn't work - it sure didn't work with Woodstein :) .
All I can is... Glad I canceled my STO account.