Originally posted by Mr_Cyberpunk

Care to rebuttle that Stormshade?

In the end all I'm asking for is what was promised to us.

from dstahl, same thread linked by ag-vuk in his previous post:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 No disrespect to Gozer, but he is presenting his view and perception of events and was either not aware of or privvy to discussions at executive levels.

To set the record straight (de'ja vu) - I think I put it best in a recent interview when I said we pretty much promised anything and everything when it came to Klingon play prior to launch and that if you really went and dug up information from emails and discussions and interviews - it wouldn't surprise me in the least what you'd find in terms of the KDF Faction

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

does it really matter what someone has to say when the EP of the game is openly admitting that they just said whatever sounded good?

you mean this one ?  http://forums.startrekonline.com/showpost.php?p=3311401&postcount=223

Yeah , he throws Gozer under the bus basically saying he doesn't really know what he's talking about.  It's pretty clear to most how Cryptic operates , just DStahl re-inforces the premiss. If you listen carefully you can hear that song and dance I mentioned a while back.

 Quote:

Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus Darren, no one is denying that the plans changed. However, Gozer is claiming in his last post that the plan for Klingons to have full PvE content NEVER EXISTED in the first place, and we have video proof that is wrong. Of course the plans changed. But that doesnt mean they NEVER EXISTED as Gozer is claiming.

No disrespect to Gozer, but he is presenting his view and perception of events and was either not aware of or privvy to discussions at executive levels.

To set the record straight (de'ja vu) - I think I put it best in a recent interview when I said we pretty much promised anything and everything when it came to Klingon play prior to launch and that if you really went and dug up information from emails and discussions and interviews - it wouldn't surprise me in the least what you'd find in terms of the KDF Faction.

Prior to launch, Craig did attempt to start communicating that KDF at launch was going to be PVP only - and in Beta that is exactly what it was.
 

There he goes folks , under the bus !

It was during Beta that Jack started to talk about "if the players want KDF PVE - we'll listen" - but at that late stage in the game, there was not much the development team can do to instantly come up with 30 hours of KDF PVE content compared to what was made for the Fed side.

You can hear the music begin as Dan steps to the stage with his tap shoes on, watch him dance .

You'll notice that as early as Season 1 we started to address this and every release since has been adding KDF PVE content or at the very least content playable by any faction.

Does the KDF have a long ways to go before it is comparable to the Feds? yes.

Will they ever have as much PVE content as the Feds? Not in the short term.

Are we going to stop everything we are doing and only work on the KDF? nope.

Am I committed to seeing a healthy KDF faction on par with the FED faction? 100% yes.

That is the situation that I've been reiterating (and I do mean reiterating - I say all of this quite frequently) since I took the Executive Producer helm in July.

Can that make up for all the nonesense that was said pre-launch? Nope.

It is what it is and we are working on making it better every single day.

Gozer did do the remastered episode because it was on his schedule to do it now. Gozer doesn't know why it is on his schedule now... only that it is because I put it there.

So if you want to blame anyone for Remastered Azura before anything else blame me.

But I think my track record of supporting KDF has been very clear. Every update the KDF improves. It will continue to do so on my watch.

The finish is amazing in the sense that he gives the CDF something to hang on to. Another telling post , about Cryptics plans. I've said before they plan and hope to profit from others doing their jobs, which is actually a great plan . Heck why work , when others are willing to do it for nothing for you.

 

http://forums.startrekonline.com/showpost.php?p=3311101&postcount=17 

Jack has recently contacted a few community members he'd like to talk to about some things. Please feel free to respond, and rest assured that it is him.

If you have further questions regarding the PM you received, please feel free to PM myself, or Jackalope.

I'll send him an email and ask him to pop in here and confirm as well.

Thanks for pointing this thread out to me Darren!

Stormshade

http://forums.startrekonline.com/showpost.php?p=3311118&postcount=20

Yep. It's me! I PM'ed some of the people whose stuff I had played on Tribble or whose posts I followed on these forums.

Sorry for the weirdness; honestly, you'd think I would have anticipated that people wouldn't know me!

Back in the days of CoH/V, I was known as Statesman and fairly recognizable on the forums. Since then, I've tried to let the Executive Producers of each project really be the spokesmen and I've tried to remain in the background. Sorry for any confusion!

 

 

Thanks for posting those, real eye openers. It truly does seem like this game is doomed if things like that are being said.

Another thing that really seems sus to me, if CO LTSs are getting free cryptic points to the value of 400 points per month, which can also be spent on STO, then firstly 1. Why aren't STO LTSs getting the same reward and 2. Doesn't this just completely undermine the entire bloody point of the C-Store (which as I understood was to help keep incoming coming in from LTSs)

In the end if STO LTSs were getting such points, then there wouldn't be such a huge fucking deal everytime a ship came out costing $25- since a few months would get that for free.. as it should be! Cryptic Points can be transfered through both games- so basically if someone had an LTS for CO and was playing STO for say 1 month on the free trial and bought the $25 ship with their saved up Cryptic Points that effectively undermines the entire system- making the C-Store no longer profitable (since no money has been exchanged). Most people on the STO forums defended the C-Store using the arguement "If people didn't buy it then that content wouldn't be made"- if you're giving away free points doesn't that mean that arguement is completely false? since they're not buying it.

To me that seems really damn silly- I don't see how anyone could defend such an inconsistancy- essentially STO LTSs are being screwed over by the CO ones because they can buy things using C-Points for free, whereas STO customers have to pay for the EXACT same thing. I'm surprised more people haven't complained about that yet.

The LTS points you get in CO can't be used in STO, that i'm sure of, at least for now, while STO is P2P.

Are you sure about that, because I tried it with the free points I got with STO and it worked fine- the CO and STO accounts are tied together, so I assume that your cryptic poitns are as well, how then would Cryptic distingusih between points bought in CO and points bought in STO? for that matter points given for a CO LTS used to pay for things in STO? I don't really see how they could be monitoring that- what I expect is the points can be spent in either shop- since my STO points transfered fine into CO, do they transfer the other way? I would think so.

Originally posted by Mr_Cyberpunk

Thanks for posting those, real eye openers. It truly does seem like this game is doomed if things like that are being said.

Another thing that really seems sus to me, if CO LTSs are getting free cryptic points to the value of 400 points per month, which can also be spent on STO, then firstly 1. Why aren't STO LTSs getting the same reward and 2. Doesn't this just completely undermine the entire bloody point of the C-Store (which as I understood was to help keep incoming coming in from LTSs)

In the end if STO LTSs were getting such points, then there wouldn't be such a huge fucking deal everytime a ship came out costing $25- since a few months would get that for free.. as it should be! Cryptic Points can be transfered through both games- so basically if someone had an LTS for CO and was playing STO for say 1 month on the free trial and bought the $25 ship with their saved up Cryptic Points that effectively undermines the entire system- making the C-Store no longer profitable (since no money has been exchanged). Most people on the STO forums defended the C-Store using the arguement "If people didn't buy it then that content wouldn't be made"- if you're giving away free points doesn't that mean that arguement is completely false? since they're not buying it.

To me that seems really damn silly- I don't see how anyone could defend such an inconsistancy- essentially STO LTSs are being screwed over by the CO ones because they can buy things using C-Points for free, whereas STO customers have to pay for the EXACT same thing. I'm surprised more people haven't complained about that yet.

 i dont want to offend you, but to me you seem to have missed the entire point.

why is there a cash store in a pay to play game that is not a "AAA" title, that the executive producer has stated needs major overhauls of many of the core parts of the game? (and thats without adding that a large part of the work cryptic is doing on the game seems to end up in the cash store)

  why was the game released in that state to begin with and still not been fixed in a year, before you even ask why there is a cash store?

edit: to me it seems like your asking why there is no pickles on your burger, without first asking where the meat is. (to use a fast food analogy)

and then there is stuff like

http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=3313003#post3313003

"i dont want to offend you, but to me you seem to have missed the entire point.

why is there a cash store in a pay to play game that is not a "AAA" title, that the executive producer has stated needs major overhauls of many of the core parts of the game? (and thats without adding that a large part of the work cryptic is doing on the game seems to end up in the cash store)

  why was the game released in that state to begin with and still not been fixed in a year, before you even ask why there is a cash store?

edit: to me it seems like your asking why there is no pickles on your burger, without first asking where the meat is. (to use a fast food analogy)"

I'm fully aware of the condition of the game, I've been bitching about it ever since Beta thankyou. I'm trying to stay on topic again, focusing on the LTS offer. Many of the fanbois have claimed that C-Points are the only way for cryptic to make profits from LTSs, yet what they've done with CO contradicts that- and my point is, if you can use those points in STO and already have an STO LTS on top of a CO LTS, you effectively no longer have to buy C-Points for STO- which makes the entire bloody reason we were given for the C-Store a complete and utter lie- but I expected as such. If they want to correct this, they have to provide the same for STO. I'd just like to know if it actually is possible to use CO LTS C-Points in STO- as that effectively undermines the whole reason for the C-Store.

oh man did raistlin r*pe stormshade in this thread :D

i'm surprised that craptic is allowed to operate in such a country as the USA, what they are doing is called fraud...

Originally posted by ConjureOne

oh man did raistlin r*pe stormshade in this thread :D

 

i'm surprised that craptic is allowed to operate in such a country as the USA, what they are doing is called fraud...

 I needed a great big belly laugh. Thanks for this. Gawd you trolls provide some great humor some days.

Originally posted by Mr_Cyberpunk

Are you sure about that, because I tried it with the free points I got with STO and it worked fine- the CO and STO accounts are tied together, so I assume that your cryptic poitns are as well, how then would Cryptic distingusih between points bought in CO and points bought in STO? for that matter points given for a CO LTS used to pay for things in STO? I don't really see how they could be monitoring that- what I expect is the points can be spent in either shop- since my STO points transfered fine into CO, do they transfer the other way? I would think so.

 The points you have/purchase in STO  can be used in CO , but not the other way around , at least they aren't suppose to. If you can someone screwed up . Enjoy and shhhhhhh!

Originally posted by ConjureOne

oh man did raistlin r*pe stormshade in this thread :D

 

i'm surprised that craptic is allowed to operate in such a country as the USA, what they are doing is called fraud...

 someone correct me if im wrong, because im not sure... but if i recall correctly cryptic is owned by atari, which is based out of france. (unless the US recently annexed france?)

Originally posted by raistalin69

and then there is stuff like

 

http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=3313003#post3313003

 

Just a friendly FYI to anyone thinking about going lifetime.

Just had a conversation with Atari Support. Charging people a different amount than you advertised is called FRAUD.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~Stormshade
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, I'm not hurting for $60 but it's still annoying.

Man, I wish there was a forum mirror service for STO just like there is for EVE Online to prevent company reps censoring player postings. Bet that dude is doubly p'd off now having gotten ripped off and then a forum infraction for posting something that the company rep wanted to cover up!

Originally posted by AG-Vuk

Prior to launch, Craig did attempt to start communicating that KDF at launch was going to be PVP only - and in Beta that is exactly what it was.
 

 Just to clarify this line a bit, but it isn't entirely true: If you look back at the statements made, even during beta and up to (and including) launch, Cryptic was stating that the Klingons were PvP focused, but that they had enough PvE content for their faction that they could level up. If you look at the various interviews Jack did (from Dec 15th, 2009 onwards), you will see that he (and other Cryptic staff) were still trying to spin it in interviews that the Klingons had plenty of PvE content to level up with.

   Many game reviewers pressed Cryptic on the matter, after DStahl's announcement in the podcast, and up until launch they kept repeating the same line. What they were not saying was that, other than the handful of 'tutorial' PvE quests in the Great Hall (non-repeatable), there were a few PvE 'quests' (one for each ten-level tier) and those were on a timer. Each quest consisted of going into a shared instance, scanning, and then being zoned into a private zone where you killed X amount of ships. After the game launched they really couldn't claim the Klingons had plenty of PvE anymore, so there was more honesty on the subject.

Originally posted by AG-Vuk

The LTS points you get in CO can't be used in STO, that i'm sure of, at least for now, while STO is P2P.

 Even if STO goes the freemium route as well, I don't actually expect them to share points. After all from the way I understand it, even Turbines points don't cross over from DDO to LotRO (or vice versa), unless that has changed recently?

*edit* Nevermind, I see that there is sharing with Cryptic's points (if only one way).

Originally posted by Stormshade

Originally posted by AG-Vuk

I posted this in another thread , but on second thought, I found this was deserving of it's own thread. People wonder what it is about Cryptic and STO that evokes such passion ? It's the contempt and hubris they have .

Here's what kills me :

Rekhan

To celebrate the launch of Champions Online: Free for All and the one year anniversary of Star Trek Online, we’ll be discounting the price of Lifetime Subscriptions for both games by 20%! The sale starts January 25 at 6 a.m. Pacific and ends February 4 at 10 a.m. Pacific. This means players will be able to purchase a Lifetime Subscription to Champions Online: Free for All or Star Trek Online for just $239.99!

This is absolutely hilarious . They announce that CO goes F2P on Jan 25 and post this crap ! Wow , they think people are as dumb as door stops.  This borders on unethical behavior. When you really give it some thought, you're really just paying full price for STO. Cryptic has hit a new low. Anyone who takes advantage of this , I have land for sale, in NJ. The thread goes on to argue that a regular LT is $ 299 and they don't forsee it dropping much past what they've discounted now. I'm pretty sure "we just don't get it. "

A Little something to consider:

We haven't sold CO LTS subs since launch. We brought them back due to popular demand by our playerbase, after announcing the Champions Online: Free for All conversion on 10/26/10. We announced the return of the CO LTS on 11/11/10.

Lifetime Subscribers to Champions Online enjoy all the benefits of having a subscription to the game, including a monthly stipend of Cryptic Points to spend as the wish in our C-Store. For the cost of roughly twenty months of subscription time, only this subscription offer lasts the life of the product.  In short, I, and others, still beleive that a lifetime subscription to your favorite MMO (whether that be CO, STO, LOTRO, or any other game) is quite possibly the best possible value for your entertainment dollars.

Lifetime subscriptions to Star Trek Online have been available since before the game launched. Many players have purchased them, and while I freely admit that not everyone who has done so is happy with their purchase; many, many more are.

Any other game, you probably mean Hellgate London. There's only 4 games so far that added lifetime offer in a subscription based business.

What sort of market segment is your lifetime offer targetted at? Assumably, it is your most hard-core fans, that are willing to spend 239$ for a game. Players that in the end by average, would spend more if they continued to play with monthly subscriptions. People are not stupid really, they usually look for the best value for them.

In other words, it's a loss for the company in the long run. And indeed, you are well aware of that. You sacrificed long-term income from your most loyal fanbase  for a short term money injection.  More lifetimers you have, less money there will be to pay man hours to add content updates. Every lifetimer is hurting the game in the long-run, unless you have some other plans with the game, that your customers don't know yet. Such as: grab the money and terminate the servers (hellgate london), or turning f2p (lotro).

Originally posted by Permian

Man, I wish there was a forum mirror service for STO just like there is for EVE Online to prevent company reps censoring player postings. Bet that dude is doubly p'd off now having gotten ripped off and then a forum infraction for posting something that the company rep wanted to cover up!

  He shouldn't be angry for posting what he shouldn't; most forums have rules against posting company conversations and the like.