Read the other 3/4 of my post and you will see the problem with player crews and a comprehensive star trek simulator.

Originally posted by slingbladez

Read the other 3/4 of my post and you will see the problem with player crews and a comprehensive star trek simulator.

Well to be honnest I read whole post and you did not realy struck me like someone who cares for star trek. Do not get me wrong I am not attacking, you want a game play suited for you and that is OK, but I am trekkie, I want trek play and I believe that is not wrong either. I just wanted from STO to be ST not WOW in space.

wow was not the first mmo so stop comparing every game to wow unless your a wow fanboi? he strikes a good question you cant have a group of people playing the game 24/7 to run a player crew because everyone has real lives outside of games, im sorry but i love star trek that doesnt mean im guna spend 24 hours a day pushing buttons in the engineering room why not you might say? because that would make the game 1 boring and 2 a korean grind mmo

Saying you are a trekkie is a common(but weak defense) against proper arguments over at sto.com. Heres the thing. What positions would say five of naysayers pick? I would bet on almost any amount of money, that at least two of you said Captain, if not more. That is the essential failure of player-run crews. People don't like to be ordered around(in general). It takes training and dedication, and rewards to make you willing to submit to someone else's opinion.

There's also a further question, what if no one you want to crew with is online? What do you do then? Do you risk tangling with a bunch of random people over captain's chair? Who's ship do you use? Where do you go? What do you do?

One other point, no Star Trek game has ever had any of that stuff. And yet, several of them actually succeeded, quite well. So, your assertions that you need these things to have a good game, fails.

Now, for the other stuff. Cryptic is trying to make a game that is Fun. They are not letting Canon straight-jacket them, which is exactly what needs to be done.

Here's the thing, Combat sounds fun, and it sounds like there is going to be some good variety in skill sets. We haven't heard about other stuff, because it hasn't been talked about yet. But that is changing. For awhile, we were on combat, we're about finished with learning about player progression, and we'll move on to another topic. Every concern I had has been answered, and I've only become more excited with the game.

What I would appreciate is, even if the game doesn't reach your lofty expectations of being a sim, don't scare away potential players of the game. Thats what your complaining does, it scares possible customers who would enjoy the game, away.

If STO succeeds, then there will be more Star Trek games, and you might be able to get that star trek sim you want.

Originally posted by benmou13

wow was not the first mmo so stop comparing every game to wow unless your a wow fanboi? he strikes a good question you cant have a group of people playing the game 24/7 to run a player crew because everyone has real lives outside of games, im sorry but i love star trek that doesnt mean im guna spend 24 hours a day pushing buttons in the engineering room why not you might say? because that would make the game 1 boring and 2 a korean grind mmo

1. I am not wow fanboi, comparison is accidental.

2. Beign engineer or science officer is lot more than just pressing the buttons

3. Player crew and thouse off world missions could be instanced with bots if you can not find players crew. Like GW, you can do missions with people or with hench your chioce. Flying around can be open world but acctual missions could be instances.

I just say I will feel dumb if I run only on player captains all the time. It sound to me like only 1 class in whole game, like I am running in nothing but miners in EVE or monks in GW. Little odd, don't you think.

I say no to player crews , I dont think it will be fun and they arent going to put time in something thats isnt fun on the long term.

Hopefully we will have an interiors after launch for chat purposes.

Though I can understand the need to get the game on multiple platforms and operating systems, I also think of how many games that added this on as they could.

Since its still not even in a closed beta yet, we can only assume so much. Cryptic is very limited on waht they can say right now. They could be working on a cross over as we speak, but can not say anything because they do not want to dissipoint or make false hopes.

I seen many games that these were added just shortly before launch.

All we can do is hope for the best.

Originally posted by DevilXaphan

LOL.........the basic absence of any 3d movement in a space MMO is rediculous as any good space RTS game has this.

I forsee not a lot of people playing this.

Maybe if you even knew a little bit about the game, you might actually like it?

There is 3D movement!   What they don't have is full neutonian physics in flight.  There is a huge difference there.  Many games don't have full neutonian physics.  It's hard to do with an MMO and make it right. JGE is having a really hard time.  ST doesn't really use neutonian physics that much anyway (though i suppose that is up for debate) so they avoided it all together and went to make some great gameplay.  Look at the game play, it is MUCH BETTER than any MMO i've ever seen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCE8q6StGdQ&feature=player_profilepage

Again, you can clearly see the 3D nature, the activity, etc.  And this is one of the very first missions!!! Go to almost any other MMO and what do you see in the noob areas?  People standing around using one or two skills, that's what...

Having skimmed the OP and a few of the following pages i simply want to say this -

We must not focus on the "Can nots" which will be presented to us with the release on STO. Yes there are things we all want to do in the game which sadly we will not be able to do, but this is a flaw inherent to all games.

Instead allow us to focus on the "Can Do's" which we're being given with the release of the game.  Here for the very first time and possibly for the last time we're being given an MMO Based entirely on one of Televisions all time greatest fanchises and a show which Most if not all of us have grown up with.

I think given the wide range of possibilities which Cryptic has with STO that they are making a fantastic begning and i dearly hope that i will be able to be part of the community and player base for many years to come so that i can be part of this MMO. It might not deliver exactly what i want out of the gate.

But that's the thing about MMOs.

They're always under development, even when they've hit stores.

STO Will be awesome.

Originally posted by Osias

Having skimmed the OP and a few of the following pages i simply want to say this -

We must not focus on the "Can nots" which will be presented to us with the release on STO. Yes there are things we all want to do in the game which sadly we will not be able to do, but this is a flaw inherent to all games.

Instead allow us to focus on the "Can Do's" which we're being given with the release of the game.  Here for the very first time and possibly for the last time we're being given an MMO Based entirely on one of Televisions all time greatest fanchises and a show which Most if not all of us have grown up with.

I think given the wide range of possibilities which Cryptic has with STO that they are making a fantastic begning and i dearly hope that i will be able to be part of the community and player base for many years to come so that i can be part of this MMO. It might not deliver exactly what i want out of the gate.

But that's the thing about MMOs.

They're always under development, even when they've hit stores.

STO Will be awesome.

Yeah, very good point. If they were going to make an MMO that tried to do everything, it would never be released.

Just think about it, what if a show tried to do 'everything' in the ST universe?  Lol, it's just not possible.  Rekhan said it pretty well when he said something like, "a lot of the time, development is just content triage".  Lol, i think that's soooo true.

I don't see being captain as being stuck to one specific class.  Your skills will determine what your strengths are, on away missions as well as your ship. Not only that there are diff kinds of ships. There is a lot more variety than some people think.

I can't believe there is 14 pages of mostly complaining that STO isn't going in the direction the poster wants so this game is destine to failure.  The three main complaints of only captains, no bridge or interior and no real 3D movement have been well documented. So if thats the features that are going to break this game for you just move on.  Frankly those three things are either repugent to me or don't matter in the least to me (3D movement).  When the game included those items, I just moved on as it was obvious to me the game wasn't being made for me.  I didn't whine day after day, weeks on end because it didn't meet my expectations.  I actually respected those that wanted the game for the direction the Devs were designing it, boring as it may of seemed to me.  Now the game in my opinion is heading in a direction I wished it would from the start with sides, intergalactic conflict, exploration, and planet away missions.  As hard as it is for some to believe those of us excited about the game now have no desire to go back to what the old design had.  I'm amazed there is even two people that think being a side kick character  would be in the least bit enjoyable!  I can't even imagine how you could make enough missions that would include each member of a crew tasks in an enjoyable scenario, which is why I would guess they dropped that idea.  I could imagine many long missions where a engineer or doctor (etc) had nothing at all to do, who would want to play for hours on end with basically no purpose for three quarters of the time?  Anyways give it a rest guys, the ceaseless ranting about whats not to be is getting repetitious and rather boring!

That's okay, I am continually amazed at people who think that something other than "ship as avatar" means playing "side kick" characters.

Consider the following: Assume the game has integrated voice comms and starship interiors you can walk around (at least partial ones); Each "Bridge crew" consists of the following 4 positions - all physical consoles on the bridge: command, helm, weapons, and engineering. (Maybe a fifth for "science" - who knows). Now, each of these positions contributes directly to combat by the skills of the character in them modifying the ships stats. Each position also opens up "special maneuvers" using that speciality - like combo openings or chains in fantasy MMOs.

Each bridge position is in turn a broad "archetype" for a character /clas line - so there are different types of engineer specialist etc.

A group, or partial group, that plays together operates sort of as a group does in a traditional fantasy MMO; with each position firing off abilities to do things. (might involve mini games, might not)

Now the soloist (and any empty slots in a partial group) have to be filled by either random NPC assignment or specific crew recruitment. The NPCs provide lower levels of the same boosts that PCs do and the basic level of any special maneuvers possible. A solo PC captain who has the skills and needs/wants to do some more impressive special can get up and physically swap consoles on the bridge. Get the idea?

Obviously on "away" teams, the PC group functions as a normal independent MMO group...while the solo (or empty positions) gets NPC "pets" to fill the slots. (The same way they all get NPC "redshirts" to fill slots on a ground team)

- Just one possible way they *could* have done things that wouldn't be "pushing one button in 12hrs" or whatever.

Originally posted by ak_vader

I bet i could make an I can't list about every game ever made as long my arm.  So untill we've played it I'll keep a positive attitude. 

Good point.

Originally posted by ericbelser

That's okay, I am continually amazed at people who think that something other than "ship as avatar" means playing "side kick" characters.

Consider the following: Assume the game has integrated voice comms and starship interiors you can walk around (at least partial ones); Each "Bridge crew" consists of the following 4 positions - all physical consoles on the bridge: command, helm, weapons, and engineering. (Maybe a fifth for "science" - who knows). Now, each of these positions contributes directly to combat by the skills of the character in them modifying the ships stats. Each position also opens up "special maneuvers" using that speciality - like combo openings or chains in fantasy MMOs.

Each bridge position is in turn a broad "archetype" for a character /clas line - so there are different types of engineer specialist etc.

A group, or partial group, that plays together operates sort of as a group does in a traditional fantasy MMO; with each position firing off abilities to do things. (might involve mini games, might not)

Now the soloist (and any empty slots in a partial group) have to be filled by either random NPC assignment or specific crew recruitment. The NPCs provide lower levels of the same boosts that PCs do and the basic level of any special maneuvers possible. A solo PC captain who has the skills and needs/wants to do some more impressive special can get up and physically swap consoles on the bridge. Get the idea?

Obviously on "away" teams, the PC group functions as a normal independent MMO group...while the solo (or empty positions) gets NPC "pets" to fill the slots. (The same way they all get NPC "redshirts" to fill slots on a ground team)

- Just one possible way they *could* have done things that wouldn't be "pushing one button in 12hrs" or whatever.

 

 

 

Well then you should be really happy with the away missions in this game because that is exactly what happens. But then again, I'm sure that was just a typo on your part or maybe you "forgot" this little fact which has been common knowledge for awhile now for anyone that actually visited the site and got their own facts.
 

Yeah, thats the thing. You can play with your friends... in ground missions. Just not for on the ship. Do you know why? Cryptic tried it, and couldn't find a way to make it fun for everyone. They did consider it, but they decided that it was more important for the game to be fun, than to be a Sim.

Cryptic has some massive Star Trek fans on staff, that outdo us in the IRC room for geekiness and trivia knowledge, and thats saying something. If it could have worked, they would have done it.

Originally posted by ZerothLaw

Yeah, thats the thing. You can play with your friends... in ground missions. Just not for on the ship. Do you know why? Cryptic tried it, and couldn't find a way to make it fun for everyone. They did consider it, but they decided that it was more important for the game to be fun, than to be a Sim.

Cryptic has some massive Star Trek fans on staff, that outdo us in the IRC room for geekiness and trivia knowledge, and thats saying something. If it could have worked, they would have done it.

To me, i think both systems have their merits in terms of fun gameplay.  It's just hard to imagine a AAA MMO trying the player crew option for a game as complex as ST. There is just too much there.  It's a lot easier if all the crews have to do is man turrets...

I also find it funny that many people bring doom on this MMO because it isn't doing something that no other MMO has even attempted.  I mean, does that even make the least bit of sense?  Clearly at least the chance of failure would increase if they went on out on such a limb. 

Originally posted by Dominatam

I also find it funny that many people bring doom on this MMO because it isn't doing something that no other MMO has even attempted.  I mean, does that even make the least bit of sense?  Clearly at least the chance of failure would increase if they went on out on such a limb. 

Me too. Although I found the OP's fantasy interview a bit entertaining, there's always going to be criticism for any new MMO.

If it's not the "WoW measuring stick", it's the "canon measuring stick". :(

Oh well, I realize Cryptic can't put in everything the entire community wants at launch (nor should they). We'll still have a fun Star Trek based MMO that will grow and mature over time.

Originally posted by ZerothLaw

Yeah, thats the thing. You can play with your friends... in ground missions. Just not for on the ship. Do you know why? Cryptic tried it, and couldn't find a way to make it fun for everyone. They did consider it, but they decided that it was more important for the game to be fun, than to be a Sim.

Cryptic has some massive Star Trek fans on staff, that outdo us in the IRC room for geekiness and trivia knowledge, and thats saying something. If it could have worked, they would have done it.

 Totally agree, I read there post on what they felt after trying it bridge crew style, and was glad they had tried it, but I was praying it would end up as each of us captaining our own ship.  Being fun is just as, or more important then cannonish sim.  There will plenty of team work, and opportunity to work with friends.  I for one am very impressed with cryptic on STO so far.  I would like for people to play it before criticizing it.  
 

Originally posted by ktanner3

Well then you should be really happy with the away missions in this game because that is exactly what happens. But then again, I'm sure that was just a typo on your part or maybe you "forgot" this little fact which has been common knowledge for awhile now for anyone that actually visited the site and got their own facts.
 

Umm, no - that would be *why* I used that example.

They could have done it for space combat too - they *chose* not to. >shrug<

Depends on how you see the game. To me, "away teams" seem like a fairly optional part of the game and one that is strangely divorced from the space game.

Them saying they "couldn't find a way to make it fun" is like the utter morons at SOE saying that no one wanted to play a prospector (or miner) in SWG...it was just an idiotic statement.