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Star Trek Online Forum » Perpetual Studios Version Discussion » For 24 months, STO was housed off site...

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22 posts found
  Shannia

Novice Member

Joined: 11/06/05
Posts: 2125

"World of WarCraft is held alive solely by the mediocrity of competing products." RendRegen

 
OP  11/17/07 9:28:51 AM#1

Ok, guys.  This is the question I want to ask the devs but I want help from the ST-O.net fanbois to help me craft the question so it won't get deleted or my account over there banned.

For 24 months, Star Trek Online moved off site from the rest of the P.E. staff.  Four months ago, the STO team moved back into the P.E. offices.  Shortly there after, G & H was canned.  Being offsite for 24 months developing this game, why does P.E. have nothing to show for that time except you guys now saying that you just recently went back to the drawing board and are about to give a real ingame picture or two?

So, any ST-O.net mod/fanbois that can help me clean up my question to ST-O.net standards sticking to my question would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware

"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."

  UltraNo0b

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/07/07
Posts: 13

11/17/07 12:54:50 PM#2

I'd love there to be more of STO revealed, but to say they have nothing to show for it and have made no progress is assumption, whether you think they would show more if they had it or not. They didn't go back to the drawing board recently either, almost a year ago they announced they had changed their art style, that's about it. Just because a couple of people here constantly say one thing doesn't make it true.

 

You think the devs will answer you even if you post on STO.net? Perhaps, one has been responding to people lately, so try that thread- and don't present the false assumptions backed only by the voices of naysayers from mmorpg.com as you do, maybe that will work.

***
teh no0b
***

  Dracus

Novice Member

Joined: 7/14/04
Posts: 1451

"Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars."
- Brian Littrell

11/17/07 2:31:28 PM#3

Ahem, pay no attention to certain people who keep getting their accounts banned here for being negative towards others.  The irony, getting banned for being offensive and yet making claims against those being critical of PE as trolls and naysayers.  I love this place. 

For the question to pose, doubtful it will be answered, but such hard questions do need to presented, so let's see what happens.  There is one PE person taking action in building the community.  A good thing really.  Though again more irony to see of people stating that users do not need to be babysat or to be quiet, that PE owes nothing to provide information to its user base, and yet go ape scrap with questions and comments when a Dev is present and having a discussion.  Hah

So back to the question, I would phrase it as this:

I have been observing the progress of Star Trek Online off and on for about 24 months and that the STO team moved off site from the rest of the P.E. staff.  I was informed that four months ago, the STO team moved back into the corporate  P.E. offices.  There was mention that the PE team went back to the drawing board some time ago during that period and that there are going to be a real ingame picture or two sometime shortly ahead.  So my question is, could a summary be provided of what occurred during that time period of 24 months?

 

Does that work and does it get your intent across?

(I tried to phrase it in a tactful and baiting manner; while providing the person a means to explain.  When debating, don't go for the quick kill shot, debating is best played like a game of chess.  After a response is made, if there is one, then conduct follow-up questions which can be harder, softer or misdirecting statements/questions until the the opportunity of a kill shot is possible.  Meaning the person, or your opponent is loss for words to defend him/herself or proven to have contradicted him/herself.  At which point the person generally quits, gives up, or goes ballistic.  Then again, the initial response provided, you may very well accept, found informative, accepting or liked, and not press the issue; or become less confronting.)


 

 

And that is why...

Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.

  UltraNo0b

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/07/07
Posts: 13

11/17/07 4:06:29 PM#4

making claims against those being critical of PE as trolls and naysayers.

There's no false claim in saying that people on this site are naysayers, this is hardly a hive of positivity, and every single piece of news out of PE or elsewhere is spun as negatively as possible.

There was mention that the PE team went back to the drawing board some time ago

By who, you? People on this site? PE only stated they were pursuing a different visual look, about a year ago. Could you point out to me where a representative of Perpetual Entertainment stated they had scrapped any work done and gone back to the drawing board?

So my question is, could a summary be provided of what occurred during that time period of 24 months?

I think that alone would be best. Would be great if you could get an answer on that front.

 

***
teh no0b
***

  Dracus

Novice Member

Joined: 7/14/04
Posts: 1451

"Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars."
- Brian Littrell

11/17/07 8:59:19 PM#5

Originally posted by UltraNo0b

There's no false claim in saying that people on this site are naysayers, this is hardly a hive of positivity, and every single piece of news out of PE or elsewhere is spun as negatively as possible.


Hah, how about you take a look'sy over to F13.net.

So why F13.Net?  'Cause it is a place for hard core gamers, insiders and game developers.  See how well PE is getting treated over there.

MMORPG.Com is common ground, and if most of the postings are negative in content towards PE, that should explain something.  But oh well, you haven't learned yet, even after Gods and Heroes.

And that is why...

Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.

  UltraNo0b

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/07/07
Posts: 13

11/18/07 5:06:49 AM#6

Funny this. I suggest a guy not to go on the offensive backed up by statements that have no actual source other than from unaffiliated people posting here, and point out the obvious fact this place is very negative about PE and anyone who dares not to be like them, oh, and then ask for some evidence to the contrary to my counter-claim, but all the very predictable few can do is accuse me of being someone else and tell me to go elsewhere. Yawn.

***
teh no0b
***

  Xris375

Novice Member

Joined: 6/26/07
Posts: 1031

11/18/07 5:25:11 AM#7

Mike was saying that he used Sto.net as a canary in a cave. Well, if you are keeping your canary on a seprate oxygen supply, don't be suprised if you die before the canary do.

---
And when we got more women on the team, it was like ‘No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there.’ ”
John Smedley, SOE

  Dracus

Novice Member

Joined: 7/14/04
Posts: 1451

"Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars."
- Brian Littrell

11/18/07 12:25:46 PM#8

Originally posted by UltraNo0b

Funny this. I suggest a guy not to go on the offensive backed up by statements that have no actual source other than from unaffiliated people posting here, and point out the obvious fact this place is very negative about PE and anyone who dares not to be like them, oh, and then ask for some evidence to the contrary to my counter-claim, but all the very predictable few can do is accuse me of being someone else and tell me to go elsewhere. Yawn.

"Funny this."

Oh I can't pass up this up for a good laugh. 

When debating, all that is needed is to poke one hole into a defense or attack.  Discredit one point and the rest crumbles.  Example:

"... but all the very predictable few can do is accuse me of being someone else and tell me to go elsewhere.." 

This is called, "playing the victim."  The intent stated is of, "I'm not welcomed here, and I was told to leave."  Far from it, the original statement was take a look, look around at other places, such as F13 to see what people think of PE.  MMORPG.Com is, how to say, not as negative as to other places.  This site is another reflection of the general gaming community; and if the majority here is perceived as very negative towards PE, then by Lord Vader's Mother, very good odds that the general gaming community is very negative towards PE.

As for the accusing, I'll leave that for a follow-up...

And now for the comic relief shot:

"Yawn."

Bored huh?  Well then, perhaps you should go somewhere else that is more exciting and sided with your belief system.  I know just the place, www.startrek-online.net.


 

 

 

 

And that is why...

Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.

  Dracus

Novice Member

Joined: 7/14/04
Posts: 1451

"Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars."
- Brian Littrell

11/18/07 12:27:54 PM#9
Originally posted by Xris375

Mike was saying that he used Sto.net as a canary in a cave. Well, if you are keeping your canary on a seprate oxygen supply, don't be suprised if you die before the canary do.

Indeed, and Gods and Heroes was the gaming community's Canary in the Mine for how STO would turn out.

And that is why...

Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.

  UltraNo0b

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/07/07
Posts: 13

11/18/07 2:02:02 PM#10

Dissect my posts as much as you like if that helps you to continue to feel superior up there in your tower. You're still the one who jumped on the defensive and couldn't respond to my initial suggestion that someone base their enquiries on what is true and not what people like you spin around this site as fact. Did you find that source yet, btw?

This site is another reflection of the general gaming community.


'This site'? You mean this STO section? A bunch of people who can be counted on one hand who hate what PE are doing and continue to haunt this section anyway, deriding the game and anyone who doesn't join them in doing it, barking people down and telling them to go to another site if they don't agree with you? Like below?

Bored huh?  Well then, perhaps you should go somewhere else that is more exciting and sided with your belief system.  I know just the place, www.startrek-online.net.


If I didn't want to be here, I wouldn't be. Now, tell me something about F13.net again, if it makes you feel better.

***
teh no0b
***

  Suricata

Novice Member

Joined: 10/25/04
Posts: 89

Omnes ad unum

11/19/07 8:01:29 AM#11

blah, I made a big post but the forum monster went and gobbled it up, So I'll make a brief summery of what I was gonna post :-

This place isn't a stable cross-section of the STO community, more so when anyone that is positive about the game is told to leave.

F13.net does have a few threads which are anti-PE / STO, but then you can count the posters on 2 hands pretty much and the threads are mostly started by the same naysayers form here and STOnet.

The communtiy numbers have not dropped like some have claimed, atleast not from the Stonet statistics which show an increase in numbers and posts.

Yup, graff got banned for some of his posts, but then hes a self-confessed troll, it doesn't matter what side of the fence hes on and in all fairness, 1 persons actions can not be held as the norm for everyone of that opinion.

People really need to stop spinning and making up fake information, it does nothing but either scare away the new guys or confuse people already here (I say this as I've even seen some of my own comments brought up here and spun to make it sound like I meant something I did not, same as the developers have had done)

I don't get paid by PE, we get no money from PE at STOnet and none of us have been given beta keys, as some here have claimed. If I thought the game was going to be rubbish, why would I care if I had a beta key for it?

To sum up, calm down, stop trying to get the game shut down, stop making false statements using the argument 'well we havn't seen the game yet so its probably true' and most importantly, stop trolling and dragging every thread down in the forums here. I'm all for critical debates, but its getting a bit daft when every single thread here is for bashing PE and STO, this is meant to be a place for discussing the game, not ways of having it shut down. :-)

For those that hate everything I've just said and are prolly gonna try and report this post for flaming to have me or it removed, heres a picture of me riding the so called PE donkey I've been accused of riding.

Peace all :-)

Ps, no idea where jaklet is these days, he probably just got tired of the same arguments with Simeet, Theoracle1, warrier29, coward92 or whatever user name it is now :-)

---- "Fate protects fools, little children and ships named Enterprise" ----

  Suricata

Novice Member

Joined: 10/25/04
Posts: 89

Omnes ad unum

11/19/07 8:27:47 AM#12

In all fairness, I'm not moderating this forum, as seems to be pointed out every time I post my opinions here. what I post is my opinions and I do truely believe that some people have gone off the rails slightly and thus why I say it. More so when new guys come here looking for info and get confronted with a wall of negativity, thus I try to balance it out slightly.

I, just like everyone else here, is entitled to an opinion and I fail to see why, just because I have a moderator title on another site, people believe I'm trying to do the same here, because it simply sin't the case. Yes, I could leave teh forums like many have pointed out, but what does that accomplish? It just rids the forum of yet one more person that is positive about the game and reduces the number of people posting here even more, which doesn't really help in having active discussions.

The only thing I can see I said about MMORPg.com violations is about Simeets multiple accounts, but I only bring that up as he has made threads where hes responded to himself to make it sound like his opinion represents the entire community, my plea about people trying to remain level headed though is what I personaly feel and I don't see how that can be seen as me trying to moderate this site.

As per the OP, the information we have from Pe is actually quite old (most of the concept art we've been shown is old, mostly 1 year+ old and as such you can't take it as evidence that its where the game is at currently, more so when independant sources that have been to PE's offices (like John Eaves for example) have mentioned seeing builds of the game. The reason these people don't talk openly about ti though is because they are NDA'd. Although I know some people believe thats spin, time will tell though ofcourse :-)

---- "Fate protects fools, little children and ships named Enterprise" ----

  Shannia

Novice Member

Joined: 11/06/05
Posts: 2125

"World of WarCraft is held alive solely by the mediocrity of competing products." RendRegen

 
OP  11/19/07 12:31:03 PM#13

Suricata, thank you for proving my point.  I make a thread asking for YOUR help to write a question on ST-O.net that won't get deleted or me banned over there.  Do you answer my question, HELL NO.  You spin two absurdly long posts that are completely off topic.

Now, if you would kindly read my opening post and help with the construction on my question that I want to post over at ST-O.net, I would greatly appreciate your help.

But please, stop with your own spin and keep the thread on topic.  Thanks again.

 

Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware

"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."

  Dracus

Novice Member

Joined: 7/14/04
Posts: 1451

"Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars."
- Brian Littrell

11/19/07 12:49:10 PM#14

Well shucks, that just took the thunder out of my reply. 

Effective and short to the point.

And that is why...

Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.

  Suricata

Novice Member

Joined: 10/25/04
Posts: 89

Omnes ad unum

11/19/07 1:07:00 PM#15

Originally posted by Shannia

Suricata, thank you for proving my point.  I make a thread asking for YOUR help to write a question on ST-O.net that won't get deleted or me banned over there.  Do you answer my question, HELL NO.  You spin two absurdly long posts that are completely off topic.

Now, if you would kindly read my opening post and help with the construction on my question that I want to post over at ST-O.net, I would greatly appreciate your help.

But please, stop with your own spin and keep the thread on topic.  Thanks again.

 

 

In all fairness, I don't think you need to bother posting the thread, since its basically a thread asking a developer a question, the forums arn't meant as a pedastal for indivdual users to ask the devs questions, if you wish to ask the devs a question, its best to actually write a private message to one of them (as Simeet has done a few times 'and' got responces too).

However, that being said, with the next devlof featuring ingame shots and darons statement about information starting to flow 'very' soon, then I'd say your question will be answered in the near future by thier information releases anyway.

I'm sorry if I went off on one, but then it gets tiring of entering threads and being hit with walls of anti-PE and anti STO hype.

---- "Fate protects fools, little children and ships named Enterprise" ----

  Shannia

Novice Member

Joined: 11/06/05
Posts: 2125

"World of WarCraft is held alive solely by the mediocrity of competing products." RendRegen

 
OP  11/19/07 1:21:23 PM#16

Originally posted by Suricata

 

Originally posted by Shannia

Suricata, thank you for proving my point.  I make a thread asking for YOUR help to write a question on ST-O.net that won't get deleted or me banned over there.  Do you answer my question, HELL NO.  You spin two absurdly long posts that are completely off topic.

Now, if you would kindly read my opening post and help with the construction on my question that I want to post over at ST-O.net, I would greatly appreciate your help.

But please, stop with your own spin and keep the thread on topic.  Thanks again.

 

 

 

In all fairness, I don't think you need to bother posting the thread, since its basically a thread asking a developer a question, the forums arn't meant as a pedastal for indivdual users to ask the devs questions, if you wish to ask the devs a question, its best to actually write a private message to one of them (as Simeet has done a few times 'and' got responces too).

However, that being said, with the next devlof featuring ingame shots and darons statement about information starting to flow 'very' soon, then I'd say your question will be answered in the near future by thier information releases anyway.

I'm sorry if I went off on one, but then it gets tiring of entering threads and being hit with walls of anti-PE and anti STO hype.

The problem isn't Star Trek Online.  The problem has to do with the way P.E. has repeatedly chosen to conduct it's communications with the gaming community as a whole.  Many of us are afraid that an IP that we love is in the wrong hands and we'll never see STO or if we do, it won't be Star Trek at all, but WoW in space.  Example, I dread seeing everyone in their own ship and the Galaxy like class ships as stationary player cities.  By doing that, they've ripped the heart right out of what it is to play Star Trek Online.

Anyway, PMs have been off since Saturday regarding my question.  I give it until Friday for a reply back and then I will be posting over at ST-O.net.  Now, if my post gets deleted over there, I'll hold you personally accountable because I asked you for help here to form the question so it meets ST-O.net's standards and won't get deleted.

 

Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware

"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."

  Suricata

Novice Member

Joined: 10/25/04
Posts: 89

Omnes ad unum

11/19/07 3:00:47 PM#17

Like I said, s single thread used to address a devolper will most likely be deleted, since we don't allow those type of threads as they don't spark conversation and are usually just people demading the developers for personal responces, so most likely, if a thread like the one in the OP was posted, it most likely wouldn't last long or would get locked.

That been said, Mike S. has been asking for peoples feedback in a thread over at STOnet and I do believe that your question could be incorportaed in that thread

http://www.startrek-online.net/messageboard/showthread.php?t=11283&page=8

Since its about what people would like to hear abouts STO's development I'm sure if you ask what the development strategy has been like for the last 2 years and maybe what the plans or ideas behind marketing and community interaction are, you may get Mikes attention that way and your post would be on topic as such, just make sure you answer all teh questions Mike asked and don't just make a statement about wanting to know whats going on, because trust me, we 'all' want to know, both the positive and negative people :-)

I do understand your concerns, I'm not exactly wanting STO to become WoW in Space either, more so with WoW been targeted more and more at younger audiances and with its insanely easy hand holding approach itys adding to its gameplay atm.

Anyway, I hope that my suggestion is of use to you.

---- "Fate protects fools, little children and ships named Enterprise" ----

  Stradden

Managing Editor

Joined: 7/08/05
Posts: 6729

11/19/07 3:11:38 PM#18

Originally posted by Shannia

Ok, guys.  This is the question I want to ask the devs but I want help from the ST-O.net fanbois to help me craft the question so it won't get deleted or my account over there banned.

For 24 months, Star Trek Online moved off site from the rest of the P.E. staff.  Four months ago, the STO team moved back into the P.E. offices.  Shortly there after, G & H was canned.  Being offsite for 24 months developing this game, why does P.E. have nothing to show for that time except you guys now saying that you just recently went back to the drawing board and are about to give a real ingame picture or two?

So, any ST-O.net mod/fanbois that can help me clean up my question to ST-O.net standards sticking to my question would be greatly appreciated.

Actually, having actually visited the STO offices, I can tell you (and I believe did, in a couple of reports) that there was indeed work done on the project. It's pre-production work, meaning that it's not stuff that they share with the public / press. When we were there, they had a lot of original concept art laid out for everything from planets to races to ships, and that's just the art aspect.

Game companies often don't release much in the way of info during the pre-productions phase, sometimes, we don't even hear about the game until pre-production has been nearly completed. In the case of Star Trek Online, a recognizable IP to say the least, it's hard to impossible to keep a lid on the fact that the game is being made.

Lots of people are dooming this game before it's even properly out of the gate. Sure, it was hyped too soon, but I don't think they had a lot of choice in the matter.

I'm not saying it's going to be a good game, I'm not saying it's going to be a bad game, but honestly, at this stage of the development process, we shouldn't be expecting to have seen much. Calling them out on not showing us much seems a bit... premature.

Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com

  UltraNo0b

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/07/07
Posts: 13

11/19/07 3:26:13 PM#19

Suricata, thank you for proving my point.  I make a thread asking for YOUR help to write a question on ST-O.net that won't get deleted or me banned over there.  Do you answer my question, HELL NO.  You spin two absurdly long posts that are completely off topic.

I'm sure he's thankful to certain people such as those who had posts deleted in this thread for proving a point too. What do you expect? In the opening post you pretty much lump him and the others from there in with 'fanbois'- which is almost always used a derogatory term, it was hardly the most respectful way to 'ask for help'. The regulars on this site have a track record of persistently attacking that site and the people who run it and use it, I don't blame the guy for being on the defensive.

***
teh no0b
***

  Dracus

Novice Member

Joined: 7/14/04
Posts: 1451

"Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars."
- Brian Littrell

11/19/07 3:57:39 PM#20

“I'm sorry if I went off on one, but then it gets tiring of entering threads and being hit with walls of anti-PE and anti STO hype. - Suricata”

Hey, I get tired of seeing some people getting mislead that everything is peaches, apples and milk and honey; along with that criticism towards PE should be minimized.  It is all about the Carrot and the Stick.  Without the Stick, doubtful there would have been a response by PE in regards of how DevLop 4 was done.
Now there is some community building being done; against the reasoning of some positive supporters I might add.
And I would like to know where in this thread there is this speak of "shutting down the game?"


"Calling them out on not showing us much seems a bit... premature. - Stradden"

That is due to a creditability issue that PE has sustain.
The Gods and Heroes Canary is dead.  The confidence in Star Trek Online is questionable.  Given the expected release time, time spent on production and budgeting, STO is going to have it difficult; especially when attempting to hit millions of users.
Therefore confidence needs to be regain, and that can only be done by taking proactive actions,.  PE has now attempted to do; which should have been done right away.

Such a question posed by the OP is a chance for PE to explain and improve upon its current situation.

And that is why...

Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.

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