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Star Trek Online Forum » Perpetual Studios Version Discussion » It's time to give PE a break...

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32 posts found
  User Deleted
10/23/07 5:46:36 PM#21

 

Originally posted by Graff

hiring an sto net mod as a blog writer? you cant stop lying can you? which sto.net moderator did they hire as a 'blog writer'? you mean the QA guy they had from GnH who also had an account at sto.net? you had a thread locked for one very obvious reason, it was a total intentional bashfest- suricata didnt flame anyway, he defended himself from you calling him and the rest of them nazis and all sorts. YOU GOT YOUR THREAD LOCKED.


First: Warrior didn't get that thread locked, and anyone who reads it ( http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/152484 ) can tell when it went off topic: soon as STO.net people showed up. Warrior asked you guys repeatedly to stay on topic and respond in a reasonable manner to his post. You all refused. And I will ask that you kindly refrain from doing so here. If you have opinions/rebuttals, then state them. Reasonably. And do not hi-jack this OPs thread in order to do so.

 

Second: To the OP here, all I can say is don't hold your breath for us critics of PE and their gamemaking ability to suddenly stop just because they need breathing room. PE put itself in the position it's in. Daron Stinnett spearheaded the sinking of his own ship with his comments and his unprofessional attitude.PE as a whole created much of their own anti-PE pr problems in the way they handled the shutdown of GnH.

As I have said in another thread, GnH beta testers were mainly comprised of people who were going to be GnH, STO, or both, customers. They were PEs playing community. And they were crapped on. You don't crap on your community and fanbase, and then expect them to support your next project right from the gate. Maybe in Darons' imagination, that's how it works. In real life, it's not.

  BlitzBlade

Novice Member

Joined: 10/16/07
Posts: 71

 
OP  10/23/07 6:15:01 PM#22

 

Originally posted by Mysk

 


Originally posted by Kyleran
Well, OP is a typical 1 post new account alt..... probably best to disregard.....

 

This. This thread needs locked IMO.

 

Why....Because my opinion differs from yours?

I happen to think that everything that has happend may benifit STO as a whole. Let's face it G&H simply was not going to work in this market. It's just too fantasy rich at this point.  STO has a chance to do much better and I believe that was the plan when they decided to put G&H on hold.

I'm not trying to be troll and I will prove it by leaving this thread after this post. All I was saying, is we should give PE a chance to show what they can do given the fresh new environment. Thanks for hearing me out and as always, I respect and value your opinions...../bow

  User Deleted
10/23/07 6:53:38 PM#23

 

Originally posted by BlitzBlade

 

Originally posted by Mysk

 


Originally posted by Kyleran
Well, OP is a typical 1 post new account alt..... probably best to disregard.....

 

This. This thread needs locked IMO.

 

Why....Because my opinion differs from yours?

I happen to think that everything that has happend may benifit STO as a whole. Let's face it G&H simply was not going to work in this market. It's just too fantasy rich at this point.  STO has a chance to do much better and I believe that was the plan when they decided to put G&H on hold.

I'm not trying to be troll and I will prove it by leaving this thread after this post. All I was saying, is we should give PE a chance to show what they can do given the fresh new environment. Thanks for hearing me out and as always, I respect and value your opinions...../bow

 


Hey, I have no problem with you having an opinion that differs from my own.

I do have a problem when someone makes a statement like that of your original post where you claim to "know for a fact", when in actuality you do not.

If you have an opinion but no factual evidence to back it up, fine, but make it clear that it is nothing more than your opinion.

Please, in the future do not say... "I know for a fact"  when you actually do not and it is only your opinion.

Stating as you did in your original post, "I know for a fact" and in that context specifically implied not only that you had evidence to support your statement but that you had confidential inside information. In your original post you appear to have intentional misrepresented yourself and your credentials to the community (pro and con). At the very least your post was extremely misleading to the entire community and I don't doubt that any future posts you may make will be viewed with a certain amount of skepticism.

  Realm-Reaper

Novice Member

Joined: 1/19/07
Posts: 507

Need a game that will allow me to Rob and Kill other players...can I Rape the corpse aswell?

10/23/07 11:40:55 PM#24

 

Originally posted by Keogh

 

Originally posted by BlitzBlade

 

Originally posted by Mysk

 


Originally posted by Kyleran
Well, OP is a typical 1 post new account alt..... probably best to disregard.....

 

This. This thread needs locked IMO.

 

Why....Because my opinion differs from yours?

I happen to think that everything that has happend may benifit STO as a whole. Let's face it G&H simply was not going to work in this market. It's just too fantasy rich at this point.  STO has a chance to do much better and I believe that was the plan when they decided to put G&H on hold.

I'm not trying to be troll and I will prove it by leaving this thread after this post. All I was saying, is we should give PE a chance to show what they can do given the fresh new environment. Thanks for hearing me out and as always, I respect and value your opinions...../bow

 


Hey, I have no problem with you having an opinion that differs from my own.

I do have a problem when someone makes a statement like that of your original post where you claim to "know for a fact", when in actuality you do not.

If you have an opinion but no factual evidence to back it up, fine, but make it clear that it is nothing more than your opinion.

Please, in the future do not say... "I know for a fact"  when you actually do not and it is only your opinion.

Stating as you did in your original post, "I know for a fact" and in that context specifically implied not only that you had evidence to support your statement but that you had confidential inside information. In your original post you appear to have intentional misrepresented yourself and your credentials to the community (pro and con). At the very least your post was extremely misleading to the entire community and I don't doubt that any future posts you may make will be viewed with a certain amount of skepticism.

 

 

It should come as no surprise that "BlitzBlade" has been a part of the STO.NET forums since AUG 2005

 

  BanthaFodder

Novice Member

Joined: 11/27/05
Posts: 47

10/23/07 11:52:45 PM#25

Although I think PE overall has made some bad decisions, I do not think puting G&H on hold was a bad choice. Would you rather have them release it now unpolished or would you rather have them wait so it is better later on. once u release it u cant fix it, we all saw what happened when that was attempted with SWG. If SWG had waited a year or a couple months it could have been a much greater game.

Although I have disagreed a lot about Perpetual's decisions, I think puting G&H on hold was a good one however I still understand the grief from all of the devoted fans. Afterall, PE was doing good then all of the sudden due to their lack of abilites...started going down-hill. They had awards for their game and everything.

I am optimistic about Star Trek Online, I believe Perpetual will go forth and finish it completely and learn their mistakes from G&H. I do however think it is important that the community never stop demanding, if we never talked then earlier decisions like 2d flight would still be on the table, but due to outcry from community it is now 3d flight.

 

Anyways, thats what I think about the issue.

  AfroPuff

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/09/06
Posts: 209

10/24/07 1:06:23 PM#26

The problem is that STO optimism requires a willful blindness to (or ignorance of) the larger context. That's why some of us have a hard time seeing a rosy picture here. Banthafodder do you have any idea how commonplace poor project management in the MMOG space is?  Further, it's not possible to explain the G&H situation in a way that doesn't involve gross mismanagement (go ahead, try).  They ran out of money, they ran out of time and they were trying to launch while lying to people about it.

They've had STO license for years now with apparently very little to show for it. What on earth makes anyone think this management team, who presided over the G&H team, has any better control over their STO project team?

Pessimism is entirely appropriate.

 


SWG Team Mtg.

  Dracus

Novice Member

Joined: 7/14/04
Posts: 1451

"Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars."
- Brian Littrell

10/24/07 1:42:06 PM#27

Originally posted by BlitzBlade

I happen to think that everything that has happend may benifit STO as a whole. Let's face it G&H simply was not going to work in this market. It's just too fantasy rich at this point.  

...

G&H could have worked in this young market.  The market is still not saturated with fantasy based games.  Now is it saturated with WoW-like game play, then yes; but is there a realistic skill-based fantasy based game that does not follow the Tolken genre?  That I believe is no; thus there is room in the market.  Of the problems with G&H, one was of trying to make a game that was mostly similar to existing ones and of upcoming ones.
What was it that would make G&H different from the others?  The Roman/Greek background and minions/pets?  That was not strong enough.  There needed to be more, such as maybe realistic combat system, skills not levels, more depth, etc.

The concept of G&H had potential, even in this market.

As for STO...  the same game engine used for G&H will be used for STO, make no mistake about it.  Hopefully the engine will have more polish to it in one year's time or more.  BUT that is only for the ground system, not space.  Space requires another set of rules and then there is the work of integrating ground with space.

Then let's go with STO being aimed at the mass-market.  STO is also going to be rushed, considering the current expected released time; of 2009 Q1.  STO will be delayed and it will bring it dangeriously closer to the release time of the Bioware MMO (of whatever genre that one is, it will suck up some prospective STO players).

 

As for giving PE a chance...  I'll tell you what.  I will give PE a chance if PE ever decides to take proactive actions and engage its community.

And that is why...

Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.

  jayce

Novice Member

Joined: 2/23/06
Posts: 133

10/25/07 6:01:52 AM#28

Originally posted by BanthaFodder

I do however think it is important that the community never stop demanding, if we never talked then earlier decisions like 2d flight would still be on the table, but due to outcry from community it is now 3d flight.


PE stating that they "have moved away from 2d thinking" does not mean that the game will be 3d based when it comes to ship to ship combat or local travel. the 3d disscussion is a very hot topic, one that PE does not like to even hint at. to PE, this is just another corner that they are trying to cut and dumb it down thinking that the average player can't understand which way it up. the last word from PE on this issue was them calling a 2d fight based game with the ablility to move your ship out of plane to avoid collisions, 3d. if PE keeps to that trend, then STO won't even make it out of dry dock. people think that player ship interiors was a big factor. the 3d disscussion went on for almost a full year. it still the longest lasting disscussion which is still open for debate because of PE's history of dodgeball. most people want a fully 3d based game. im sorry, but for me, bridgecommander spoiled me. that, and i can't even think of the last time anyone released a 2d based flight game. imo, i don't think PE can pull it off, not without finally waking up and doing the trek IP the justic that it desevers. and i don't just mean with 3d and player ship interiors either.

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  User Deleted
10/25/07 7:01:25 AM#29

 

 

I played their G&H beta. I know what the technical limitations of PE are.

PE could not even produce a typical MMO with standard features, let alone space combat with movement in 3D (x,y,z axis) or player ship interiors.

PE is staying away from both of these issue simply because the do not have the creative talent or technical expertise to accomplish it, and they know it.

  arvainis

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/13/04
Posts: 552

10/25/07 8:27:07 AM#30
Originally posted by Keogh

 

 

I played their G&H beta. I know what the technical limitations of PE are.

PE could not even produce a typical MMO with standard features, let alone space combat with movement in 3D (x,y,z axis) or player ship interiors.

PE is staying away from both of these issue simply because the do not have the creative talent or technical expertise to accomplish it, and they know it.


Exactly!  The GnH beta was garbage, the game was so far from being even a basic game.  It is not time to lay off PE, it is time to raise your voice even louder!  Let PE know that you will not stand for a mediocre STO!  Tell them you want an exceptional game with exceptional features.  If you lay off them now you will get a CRAP GAME.

"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." ~ Ronald Reagan

  Ozmodan

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/27/07
Posts: 6562

10/27/07 8:53:55 AM#31

You want to know why people are all over Perpetual.  Go to the STO board and read Mr. Stinnet's comments.  It pretty much completely describes why the game will tank big time, at least as a Star Trek label.  The guy has no clue.  If you have someone that lame in charge bad things will happen.

Getting back to Perpetual with G&H, they produced a MMO with no trade skills, no auction house, etc who knows what else was missing.   The game was set to flop anyways as these designers have no idea what makes a MMO successful.

Someone in another thread said that the company was being lead by to ex EA executives.  Well let me ask, where is EA's expertise in MMO's?  UO is just a shadow of itself, they long ago canceled UO 2 and they just recently bought Mythic.  Where is the expertise?  Then you have Darin Stinnet consistently opening his mouth and swallowing his leg whole.  How does that give you any confidence this group has any chance of success?

  User Deleted
10/27/07 10:33:11 AM#32

 

Originally posted by Ozmodan

You want to know why people are all over Perpetual.  Go to the STO board and read Mr. Stinnet's comments.  It pretty much completely describes why the game will tank big time, at least as a Star Trek label.  The guy has no clue.  If you have someone that lame in charge bad things will happen.

Getting back to Perpetual with G&H, they produced a MMO with no trade skills, no auction house, etc who knows what else was missing.   The game was set to flop anyways as these designers have no idea what makes a MMO successful.

Someone in another thread said that the company was being lead by to ex EA executives.  Well let me ask, where is EA's expertise in MMO's?  UO is just a shadow of itself, they long ago canceled UO 2 and they just recently bought Mythic.  Where is the expertise?  Then you have Darin Stinnet consistently opening his mouth and swallowing his leg whole.  How does that give you any confidence this group has any chance of success?

 

 

PE The Founders:
Joe Keene
,Co-Chairman & CEO comes from a background of business law, corporate negotiations and acquisitions. While Chris McKibbin, Co-Chairman & President has a finance and business operations background.

Joe Keene
Co-Chairman & CEO
Prior to co-founding Perpetual Entertainment, Joe Keene held a variety of executive positions at the industry's largest independent games publisher, Electronic Arts, including: Associate General Counsel, Chief Operating Officer of the Maxis Studio, Vice President of Worldwide Publishing, Vice President of Corporate Development, and Chief Operating Officer of EA.com.

In these positions he participated in or led many of EA's major business initiatives during the period of its greatest growth, including the acquisition of several critical studios and publishing companies, the negotiation of major property and publishing deals, and the formation of EA.com.

Before joining Electronic Arts, Mr. Keene practiced law in San Francisco, specializing in corporate transactions for intellectual property-based industries.

Mr. Keene received his A.B. from Harvard University and his J.D. from the University of California.

Chris McKibbin
Co-Chairman & President
Prior to co-founding Perpetual Entertainment, Chris McKibbin held various executive positions at the industry's largest independent games publisher, Electronic Arts, including: Chief Financial Officer and Chief Operating Officer of the EA Canada Studio, Chief Operating Officer and General Manager of the Origin Systems Studio, and General Manager of Programming and Production for EA.com.

In these positions he managed game development and operations for PC, console, and online games, including Ultima Online, Majestic, Motor City Online, Earth & Beyond, The Sims Online, FIFA Soccer, NBA Live Basketball, Need for Speed, NHL Hockey, Triple Play Baseball, and PGA Tour Golf.

Before joining Electronic Arts, Mr. McKibbin was a founder and CFO of Digital Domain, a leading Hollywood special effects studio that has worked on many high-profile movies, including Titanic, Apollo 13, and True Lies.

Mr. McKibbin received his BA from Princeton University and his MBA from Columbia University.


Neither of their bios indicate any sort of "Creative" background. They are business men operating in a creative industry. They are not creative people themselves, that are capable developing and driving a creative vision.

To illustrate my point, think of it this way, when Walt Disney created his first studio, he was the creative visionary while his brother Roy was the steady disciplined one that ran the finances and business operations. When Walt wanted to build his first theme park Disneyland, Roy said "no" to Walt because of the cost. Roy did not posses his brother's creative vision. So Walt raised the money on his own and opened the park without his brother's support. Now there are Disney theme parks around the world.

My point is that there is no creative visionary at the helm of PE, Stinnet is an employee. PE is run by two "Roy Disney" (business/finance) types.

 

Note: I admire both Walt and his brother Roy Disney, as well as Roy's son who latter took over operations of the Studio.

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