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56 posts found
  User Deleted
10/16/07 11:33:46 AM#21

Originally posted by DixonHill

They tolerate, but they disagree. There´s a difference. The latest thread by Binky proves that. A couple of people from here are involved in that thread.

And i dont see why my post serves to demonstarte your point. Because i disagree with u?

And if it is pointless to participate on STO.net only depends on your alignment towards the situation.

All of the deleated threads you do not see, Disagree with you.

 

 

They tailor the conversation to appease their great masters.

  Jaklet

Novice Member

Joined: 11/17/04
Posts: 251

10/16/07 11:36:15 AM#22

All of the deleated threads you do not see, Disagree with you.

I've lost count of how many threads and posts have been deleted from this forum in recent weeks. Of course, I'm sure you'll say that's different, right?

  User Deleted
10/16/07 11:41:29 AM#23
Originally posted by Jaklet

All of the deleated threads you do not see, Disagree with you.

I've lost count of how many threads and posts have been deleted from this forum in recent weeks. Of course, I'm sure you'll say that's different, right?

Yes, the mods here are unbiased, and also do not delete postings AFTER stating their opinion on the mater, and telling everyone not to talk about it any more (AFTER thier opinion has been said). The mods here do not get involved in this way.

 

 

The mods here are professional.

  Jaklet

Novice Member

Joined: 11/17/04
Posts: 251

10/16/07 11:48:44 AM#24

matter of perspective I guess, I prefer moderation with a face. I'm not surprised to see you don't- and as a frequent participant in this site's news threads, I'll respectfully disagree with you that the staff of this site are unbiased.

  User Deleted
10/16/07 11:50:48 AM#25
Originally posted by Jaklet

matter of perspective I guess, I prefer moderation with a face. I'm not surprised to see you don't- and as a frequent participant in this site's news threads, I'll respectfully disagree with you that the staff of this site are unbiased.

cool. LOL @ "Moderation with a face" AKA : "We are above the rules"

  User Deleted
10/16/07 11:51:19 AM#26

Originally posted by Jaklet

They do not tolerate opposing views

Yet opposing views and negativity is just as prevalent on that forum as it is here, rather bizarre statements to make considering they're simply untrue- even more so in the light of this little invasive effort by bren and co bouncing up and down in their forums with screams for an official forum. One of their threads has been trashed by you guys with the negative spin and criticism, yet it is still unlocked and in progress. They must be the worst nazi censors ever if all they're doing is removing flaming and the usual kool aid trolling from people's posts.

 

The difference being, there's positivity over there too, whereas there is none here, and people like me who try to remain optimistic are hounded by idiots like oracle and reaper, in threads and pms, while they try to dress it up as some kind of respectful debate. Try taking a look at the community you lot think you rule right here before criticising others, because this ain't no pretty sight by far.

 

Who'd have thought it, people giving up their time and money to run a fansite also happen to be optimistic about the game they're covering. nutjobs

Jacklet,

Stop trying to get your posts deleted by flamming, name calling and making personal attacks.

You've only been back on the forum a few days and your back at it.

Try to calm down.

 

  Jaklet

Novice Member

Joined: 11/17/04
Posts: 251

10/16/07 11:55:52 AM#27

Sorry, picking up bad habits from those around me here, indeed.

  User Deleted
10/16/07 12:05:00 PM#28
Originally posted by Jaklet

Sorry, picking up bad habits from those around me here, indeed.

Pifft.

  Brenelael

Guide

Joined: 10/19/06
Posts: 3949

Pointing out the Obvious to the Oblivious since 2006

 
OP  10/16/07 12:25:33 PM#29

 

Originally posted by Jaklet

Yet opposing views and negativity is just as prevalent on that forum as it is here, rather bizarre statements to make considering they're simply untrue- even more so in the light of this little invasive effort by bren and co bouncing up and down in their forums with screams for an official forum. One of their threads has been trashed by you guys with the negative spin and criticism, yet it is still unlocked and in progress. They must be the worst nazi censors ever if all they're doing is removing flaming and the usual kool aid trolling from people's posts.

Jaklet, this simply isn't true. I've taken great pains to word my posts over there to not only be in line with their rules and guidelines but also to give my views in a very constructive way. Criticism or skepticism does not always equal negativity. Most of my posts over there have given constructive criticism, healthy skepticism and even praise where warranted. An opposing viewpoint doesn't have to be negative, it just shows a difference of opinion. Are my posts over there invasive? Maybe just a little as they are not used to it really. I have been accused of all sorts of things over there by the mods and posters from being a disgruntled G&H tester to being the head of some great conspiracy to what end I'm not even sure of but all it boils down to is me and some others posting our opinions and nothing more. Now even though I have been a target over there I have remained calm and not replied in kind. I've just continued to post my opinions steadfast which I will continue to do there. Now you may see this as invasive as I'm sure they may too but it isn't done out of malice, I just have opinions too that I feel PE should hear.

 

 

The purpose of this thread was well outlined in my first 2 post but I feel it has been lost somehow. I was not trying to get a bunch of people to go troll. Quite the opposite, I know there are many people here that share my views as well as some that do not. I wanted ALL of them to go post and be heard. I made it VERY clear not to break their rules and for people to post what they feel, not what I feel about it. Oh well, it seemed like a good idea at 2:30 AM this morning. I guess I need to go to bed earlier as it seems to be affecting my judgment.

 

Bren

while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}

  Seloth

Novice Member

Joined: 1/24/06
Posts: 388

10/16/07 12:51:39 PM#30

Originally posted by DixonHill

@ Ozmodan:
The direction they are taking STO completely invalidates all the ST lore to date.  What is the point of even calling it STO? 

Do you have any specific examples? 

a. Darron stated that you would have a small armada of ship go to a plane to do a mission on the surface. 

Lore breaker: how many times in the serieses did you see a group of ships show up to do one mission unless it was of epic proportions? how many shows or movies had a "small armada" shop up to provide ONE away team?

b. combat interface: I do not recall seeing a holographic globe on the bridge when the ship was in combat, so that he entire crew could see everything going on arround them at the same time.

Lore Breaker: the crew in the shows and movies, like real life crew of ships today had to rely on looking as read out and reporting back to a cnetral authority that then made decisions based on the data. Godseye view is NOT immersive nor conductive to role playing in a mmoRPG.

C. everyone must be in startfleet. (yes yes i hear you saying at the start but in the future...)

Lore breaker: not everyone in the universe is in the federation, not everyone in the federation is in starfleet, why shoudl the players be so hemmed in? (and in answer to teh above, YOU are assuming that the devs will allow us in the future to pick new lines of work and races. how? lets say i have a 1 year old avatar and they suddenly open up romulans as a player toon, or allow us to play a smuggler...BUT how you can take your toon there? Captian Bhob of the light cruiser Dell decides to resing his commission to go be a smuggler? times 3000? not very real world to me.)

(this one is REALLY nitpicky so be nice)

d. the whole concept of being in starfleet and swaping ships and crew like clothes? (this is a hard one to be fair as we are talking where people log on and off choatically)

Lore breaker: starfleet is a military organization not a lfg social club. The central actors did not swap ships on a weekly or even monthly basis. (again this is almost impossible to do in a mmorpg enviroment)

 

  DixonHill

Novice Member

Joined: 5/31/05
Posts: 153

10/16/07 1:11:56 PM#31

Well, your points are EXTREME nitpicky.

I thought it was clear, that the Devs have to make some compromises, in terms of how to adapt the things we saw on TV into a playable MMORPG.  I personally would not consider such things as lorebreakers. But there is of course not always a clear border. (We could discuss for ages)

Btw, Starfleet is not a military organisation.

  Dracus

Novice Member

Joined: 7/14/04
Posts: 1451

"Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars."
- Brian Littrell

10/16/07 1:38:29 PM#32

Originally posted by Jaklet

I've lost count of how many threads and posts have been deleted from this forum in recent weeks. Of course, I'm sure you'll say that's different, right?

Threads Deleted: 0

Posts Deleted: Few

And quite a bit of those posts that have been deleted or moderated in the last couple of weeks has been yours Jacklet.  And I see one of your posts in this thread has been moderated.

And that is why...

Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.

  Dracus

Novice Member

Joined: 7/14/04
Posts: 1451

"Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars."
- Brian Littrell

10/16/07 1:44:00 PM#33

Originally posted by Brenelael 

If you want your voice heard here is a good place to start.

I'm there and laying down some pointers.

I'm surprised though, haven't been moderated yet.

And that is why...

Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.

  TheOracle1

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/26/07
Posts: 86

You Know I''m Right

10/16/07 1:52:01 PM#34

We understand now.

1) PE has PROVEN they have problems, and they have a LOT to prove

2) STO-NET is a fan site, and it is biased and glossy towards PE

3) STO seems to be headed in a generic MMORPG direction

 

  User Deleted
10/16/07 2:36:18 PM#35
Originally posted by TheOracle1

We understand now.

1) PE has PROVEN they have problems, and they have a LOT to prove

2) STO-NET is a fan site, and it is biased and glossy towards PE

3) STO seems to be headed in a generic MMORPG direction

 


That about covers it in a nutshell.

  Seloth

Novice Member

Joined: 1/24/06
Posts: 388

10/16/07 2:57:36 PM#36

 

Originally posted by DixonHill

Well, your points are EXTREME nitpicky.

I thought it was clear, that the Devs have to make some compromises, in terms of how to adapt the things we saw on TV into a playable MMORPG.  I personally would not consider such things as lorebreakers. But there is of course not always a clear border. (We could discuss for ages)

Btw, Starfleet is not a military organisation.


EXTREME? wow, just wow is all i can say for that remark.

 

I thought it was clear that you asked how the devs were breaking lore, and i answered you about some of the major delta's they had taken. Yes I know the last was hecka of nitpicky I even said so.

On the last I would love to hear you explain that. I take it that you are goign to ingnore a clear rank structure? I assume you are going to say that  do not have it right? http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Starfleet "The Federation Starfleet (commonly referred to as Starfleet) is the deep-space exploratory and military service of the United Federation of Planets." 

or this one ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starfleet: "

Mission

Starfleet has been shown to handle diplomatic, scientific, and military missions, although their main mandate seems to be one of peaceful exploration in the search of sentient life. The flagship of Starfleet is often considered to be the starship USS Enterprise, even though that ship has generally not been commanded by a flag officer.

In the early years of Starfleet, as seen in Star Trek: Enterprise, Starfleet's mission is purely exploration and is not military in any sense except for weapons designed for defensive capabilities until the retrofitting of the Enterprise and the incorporation of MACOs after the Xindi attack on Earth. It is assumed this trend continues as Starfleet adopts a more traditional military role and assumes its regular place as the exploratory and defensive arm of the UFP."

and we are talking late era here...not the early years. 

You may personally think none of what I cite is lore breaking but in fact they are breaking the lore. Away teams come from ONE ship not an armada.  No crew member in the shows/movies ever had a godseye view of combat. These are facts, you asked for them. Sorry if you do not like it.

Now you CAN say that the devs are doing it to make the game more playable, but others might not agree.

  DixonHill

Novice Member

Joined: 5/31/05
Posts: 153

10/16/07 4:33:58 PM#37

Ok, lets get nitpicky. (Great word, never heard it before, lol)

For the Starfleet thing, compromise:

Besides its mainpurpose, exploration (which your quoted texts state), it is also a military organisation, defending the federation if necessary.

My humble definition of clear lorebreakers, szenario:

STO, Galaxy class ship, a questtext states, "...this class was [in tng timeline] capable of max warpspeedfactor 8,5 blablabla" beep, wrong, it could go faster, lorebreaker. Clear mistakes and violations of stuff which has been actually shown onscreen before.

___

a. Darron stated that you would have a small armada of ship go to a plane to do a mission on the surface. 

Lore breaker: how many times in the serieses did you see a group of ships show up to do one mission unless it was of epic proportions? how many shows or movies had a "small armada" shop up to provide ONE away team?

Because its rarely done, doenst mean it is not allowed. People from different ships gather togehter, in one awayteam, where is the problem. Not often seen in the episodes, but not validating any other szenes seen. There was simply no need for it in most episodes, but in STO WE do the script :) (RP for example)

 

b. combat interface: I do not recall seeing a holographic globe on the bridge when the ship was in combat, so that he entire crew could see everything going on arround them at the same time.

Sry, i have a lack of information here about a combat interface in STO. And yes, such thing was never seen in any episode imo. But, it sounds like a cool thing. Why not invent it? You know, its an advantage that STO plays 20 Years after Nemesis. Just say,  technologie went forward, now every starfleet vessel has a so called combat interface. Why not? Lorebreaker would be, if STO played lets say again in tng timeline, and then the ships were ingame equipped with this stuff, because in the episodes they were not. Lore Breaker: the crew in the shows and movies, like real life crew of ships today !!!had to!!! rely on looking as read out and reporting back to a cnetral authority that then made decisions based on the data. Godseye view is NOT immersive nor conductive to role playing in a mmoRPG.

But will they have to in the future? Seems as the aswer is no. :) Well, i´d rather try it before judgeing it.

 

C. everyone must be in startfleet. (yes yes i hear you saying at the start but in the future...)

Lore breaker: not everyone in the universe is in the federation, not everyone in the federation is in starfleet, why shoudl the players be so hemmed in? (and in answer to teh above, YOU are assuming that the devs will allow us in the future to pick new lines of work and races. how? lets say i have a 1 year old avatar and they suddenly open up romulans as a player toon, or allow us to play a smuggler...BUT how you can take your toon there? Captian Bhob of the light cruiser Dell decides to resing his commission to go be a smuggler? times 3000? not very real world to me.)

No, thats true. But YOUR char, which you´ve created is in starfleet. Simple.
I dont know how you explain your char becoming a smuggler, thats up to you.

 

d. the whole concept of being in starfleet and swaping ships and crew like clothes? (this is a hard one to be fair as we are talking where people log on and off choatically)

Lore breaker: starfleet is a military organization not a lfg social club. The central actors did not swap ships on a weekly or even monthly basis. (again this is almost impossible to do in a mmorpg enviroment)

 Point for you. I have no good ideas for dealing with this in STO. But it is not impossible, even though not seen in the episodes ;)

___

As i said before, it is a great advantage for PE that they have set STO to happen in the future. Why? Because in this case, they dont have to violate too much canon stuff to make STO playable! They could have said, STO is set in the "present time", and give a shi* about lore and break it over and over.

But no, they set it in the future to minimize the need of lore breaking.  I think that decission was good.

Just to illustrate my point a bit more,

No crew member in the shows/movies ever had a godseye view of combat. These are facts, you asked for them. Sorry if you do not like it.

Facts that are not by all means relevant for a future timeline. In the past things were like you stated, in the future some things work different. :)

And i hope you do agree, that some "adjustments" have to be done, to make STO a playable MMO? As a matter of fact, i also want as less as possible!

  User Deleted
10/16/07 5:36:51 PM#38

Originally posted by Jaklet

 

Who'd have thought it, people giving up their time and money to run a fansite also happen to be optimistic about the game they're covering. nutjobs

 

Ah yes, their altruism is beyond even that of Mother Teresa...

When the reward for their unwaivering favor is Alpha and Beta invites for the site moderators, who'd of thought  they'd be so patronizing? 

And STO will be so much better of a game because STO.net tells the devs exactly what they want to hear.

  Seloth

Novice Member

Joined: 1/24/06
Posts: 388

10/16/07 5:46:22 PM#39

space holder...

site ate my reply to Dixon, i will have to retype it in the am. (primal scream)

  Ghosthauk

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/10/04
Posts: 122

10/16/07 5:48:20 PM#40

Thank you for the invitation Bren, but I'll have to say no thank you to participating over there ever again.

I already spent over two years following this game, trying to be helpful to the community, giving positive input for the game on st.com and sto.net. All of which I think was now a waste because it does not seem like the developers bothered with any input during that time, it swayed them for some changes like putting klingons on Federation side again, but overall they are doing what they want to do, they are making a game they want to make, not what we want them to make, that has already been proven for the most part.

So I'm not going to waste my time going over to "voice" my opinions, I'm just going to wait and see whatever PE comes out with. The moderators over there should have never been given the leeway to post their personal opinions, at least try to stay neutral, while being able to moderate, that should have been left separate like most other sites do. While we disagree with the way those forums are run, we really should stop posting about it, because it only ever leads back to people being nasty on both sides and then deleted posts and bannings. If PE wants to use them as the "official fan site" so be it, leave it alone.

And Jaklet chill out already man, if you disgree with something then argue about it, but enough with the name calling and flaming, you're getting worse than what you're accusing people of doing. You've been banned a few times I believe and still you're coming back doing the same tired things again.

P.S this thread is starting to look like the 4th of July with all the color flying around

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