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56 posts found
  Brenelael

Guide

Joined: 10/19/06
Posts: 3985

Pointing out the Obvious to the Oblivious since 2006

 
OP  10/16/07 12:55:20 AM#1

First off I would like to ask the Mods here to please don't lock or delete this thread as it is needed to further the necessity of an official game forum for STO and is in no way a request for people to troll another forum.

 

As you may or may not know StarTrek-Online.net is the "First Official Fan Site" for Star Trek Online. This means that with the lack of an official game forum this is the only place where your voice can be heard by the folks at PE at this point. Myself and about 3 others have been putting up a good fight over there recently with the concerns about STO that have come up on this forum and others. I mainly have been pushing for official game forums where these concerns can be addressed in a more efficient manner. Now things like "I can count the STO naysayers on one hand" and "Anyone can come here and post their concerns so where are they?" have been said by the posters and Mods over at STOnet.

 

Now I'm not going to tell you what to post as good, bad or indifferent is up to you. I would however like you to follow a few guide lines if you do go there as their Moderation is rather strict as compared to here. Please refrain from flaming or posting derogatory statements about other posters, the Mods or the Devs of STO because you will be moderated and it won't help your argument any. Please stay on topic for the thread your in also as if you stray to far off you will get Moderated also.

 

If you want your voice heard here is a good place to start. This is a thread started by the Community Relations Manager at PE and the basic topic is the future of community relations between PE and the community. Please if you go there and post your comments no matter what your take is on the situation request official game forums for STO that are operated and moderated by PE.

 

Thank you,

Bren

while(horse==dead)
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beat();
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  User Deleted
10/16/07 7:17:09 AM#2

 

 

Bren,

You could have just directed them to read some of the threads over here.

I won't be going because I refuse to subject myself unnecessarily to that abuse, and I would require hope for STO, of which I have none.

Best of luck to those of you that want to go there.

 

  Brenelael

Guide

Joined: 10/19/06
Posts: 3985

Pointing out the Obvious to the Oblivious since 2006

 
OP  10/16/07 8:13:54 AM#3

That's your choice Keogh and I'm not trying to force anyone to do this, nor can I. I just found it interesting in my last few days over there that they don't just defend PE and STO over there but are almost in denial that there is another side to the debate because they have isolated themselves from it through moderation practices. I just thought if I shook things up a little that it might wake not only STOnet up to reality but PE as well. Oh well like I said though I don't want to steer people if they go there to post good, bad or indifferent just because if enough people go there will be enough bad and indifferent arguments anyways to shake things up a little while at the same time not being to disruptive of their forum over there which wouldn't further my point anyways. My only goal here was to show STOnet and PE that there are other opinions besides the "We'll just paint on optimistic smiles and wait" position that seems to dominate that place.

 

Bren

while(horse==dead)
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beat();
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  joeyboots

Novice Member

Joined: 2/02/07
Posts: 637

“The creative mind plays with the object it loves”
*Carl Jung

10/16/07 8:31:48 AM#4

I was a beta tester for G&H, and was saddened by its sudden indefinate postponing, cause truth be told, I really loved the setting and concept. I applaud your optimism, and I hope that PE pulls out of this negativity that currently surrounds them, to release a timely and stable game. The fate of one of the biggest names in sci-fi is in their hands. I hope they don't fumble. I will head over there and post to help you with your goal.

  Brenelael

Guide

Joined: 10/19/06
Posts: 3985

Pointing out the Obvious to the Oblivious since 2006

 
OP  10/16/07 9:09:02 AM#5

Originally posted by joeyboots

I was a beta tester for G&H, and was saddened by its sudden indefinate postponing, cause truth be told, I really loved the setting and concept. I applaud your optimism, and I hope that PE pulls out of this negativity that currently surrounds them, to release a timely and stable game. The fate of one of the biggest names in sci-fi is in their hands. I hope they don't fumble. I will head over there and post to help you with your goal.

Well I wouldn't say I'm optimistic really.....more like causiously skeptical of PE and STO really. Being skeptical is just as positive as being optimistic if the situation warrants it which in this case I do believe it does.

 

Bren

while(horse==dead)
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}

  User Deleted
10/16/07 9:31:39 AM#6

 

Originally posted by joeyboots

I was a beta tester for G&H, and was saddened by its sudden indefinite postponing, cause truth be told, I really loved the setting and concept. I applaud your optimism, and I hope that PE pulls out of this negativity that currently surrounds them, to release a timely and stable game. The fate of one of the biggest names in sci-fi is in their hands. I hope they don't fumble. I will head over there and post to help you with your goal.


Go to the STO.net forum. 

Negativity is not tolerated there. Its exceedingly optimistic, so much so that its members honestly believe that there are no problems surrounding PE and that they are still infallible.

 

PE is simply making STO.net there new official forum because its a safe environment for them. This again, demonstrates the incompetence of PE, because they will base their designs on the feedback of groupies that believe PE can do no wrong.

 

PS    I know you aren't trying to force anyone, but I did view that thread and it hasn't changed. They are dismissing any decenter as griefing G&H beta testers and asking that the thread be locked. They honestly behave more like a cult than anything else.

See QUOTE:

Guys, many of you sound like those who scream and throw fits in the old SWG or WoW forums because your not getting your way. Go be a game developer if you want things your way. Seriously, relax. We have seen maybe a fraction, of a fraction of what STO is about. For all intents and purposes, every single one of us is blindly ignorant about what is going to be, and what is not going to be in STO.

Relax ... give it time.

Did it ever occur to most people that they are not releasing things right now to avoid everyone flaming them for whatever reason? Damned if you do, damned if you don't. STO will be just fine, PE know's what they are doing probably a lot more then 100% of the MMO players posting here.

And when MMO players get an MBA, have racked up about 20 years in the business and are sitting at the Chief Finacial Officer, or CEO position of Perpetual Entertainment. Then you can intelligently tell them what they should or should not do. Until then, no one is qualified in any capacity to tell them how to run their business or keep their employee's paid.

Can I suggest that this thread gets locked; it really sounds like there are some posters on here who are mad GnH testers and venting here, which is not the appropriate place to vent about GnH.

  DixonHill

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/31/05
Posts: 154

10/16/07 10:07:23 AM#7

Originally posted by Keogh

 

Originally posted by joeyboots

I was a beta tester for G&H, and was saddened by its sudden indefinite postponing, cause truth be told, I really loved the setting and concept. I applaud your optimism, and I hope that PE pulls out of this negativity that currently surrounds them, to release a timely and stable game. The fate of one of the biggest names in sci-fi is in their hands. I hope they don't fumble. I will head over there and post to help you with your goal.


PE is simply making STO.net there new official forum because its a safe environment for them. This again, demonstrates the incompetence of PE, because they will base their designs on the feedback of groupies that believe PE can do no wrong.

 

It is still not their official forum...

Have you read through the STO.net forums? There are hundreds of good threads regarding possible gameplay of STO. They care about the game, they think about it, they bring up good ideas. They are, opposed to many people here, productive. All you do is claiming PE sucks and STO will suck too.

Lets assume PE is really willing to make a good ST game, (if they succedd is another point, i dont think they intendedly will mess it up) then they are better of  reading those forums, because the "grouppies" there are giving productive feedback.

What is partly done here doesnt help ANYONE. I believe everybody here wants STO to be a good game, therefore the people at STO.net are giving productive feedback to any aspect of STO and are not just complaining all day long. They are making the best out of a bad situation.

  User Deleted
10/16/07 10:22:26 AM#8

 

 

It is pointless to participate on the STO.net forum and your post only serves to demonstrate my point.

STO.net and its community do not tolerate any criticism, even constructive criticism of PE or its handling of STO project.

They dismiss critics and those with opposing viewpoints as whiners, griefers or trolls, then go about locking, banning, editing or deleting those they view as malcontents and trouble makers.

STO.net does a better job controlling its media than Hugo Chavez does in Venezuela.

 

  DixonHill

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/31/05
Posts: 154

10/16/07 10:45:02 AM#9

They tolerate, but they disagree. There´s a difference. The latest thread by Binky proves that. A couple of people from here are involved in that thread.

And i dont see why my post serves to demonstarte your point. Because i disagree with u?

And if it is pointless to participate on STO.net only depends on your alignment towards the situation.

  Brenelael

Guide

Joined: 10/19/06
Posts: 3985

Pointing out the Obvious to the Oblivious since 2006

 
OP  10/16/07 10:48:53 AM#10

Ok guys I really don't want this thread to be locked so please don't turn this into a pissing match about the moderation at STOnet. I know how you all feel about that site and it's been said many many times before here and other places. You all also know how I feel about it but I'm really trying to give us a voice in the development of this game or at least to send a message to PE that everything isn't all sunshine and lollypops. We've already made some headway but have a long way to go. This isn't about STOnet, their moderation practices or what we feel about them it's about being heard by PE before it's too late.

 

Bren

while(horse==dead)
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beat();
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  DixonHill

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/31/05
Posts: 154

10/16/07 11:01:07 AM#11

I'm really trying to give us a voice in the development of this game or at least to send a message to PE that everything isn't all sunshine and lollypops.

Sry Bren, but what the heck are you expecting?    ^

"knock knock PE staff you messed up with GnH! and *insert above message*"

"Really Bren? What news, we didnt know that!" And now? It doesnt help anyone!"

 

That doesnt help the development of STO.

  Brenelael

Guide

Joined: 10/19/06
Posts: 3985

Pointing out the Obvious to the Oblivious since 2006

 
OP  10/16/07 11:16:30 AM#12

 

Originally posted by DixonHill

 

I'm really trying to give us a voice in the development of this game or at least to send a message to PE that everything isn't all sunshine and lollypops.

Sry Bren, but what the heck are you expecting?    ^

 

"knock knock PE staff you messed up with GnH! and *insert above message*"

"Really Bren? What news, we didnt know that!" And now? It doesnt help anyone!"

 

That doesnt help the development of STO.

That is your opinion Dix and as always I accept and respect that. I and others feel differently though and would expect the same respect for our opinions.

 

 

Bren

while(horse==dead)
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beat();
}

  DixonHill

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/31/05
Posts: 154

10/16/07 11:31:14 AM#13

Of course i do respect your opinion.

Btw, i am very interested in if and when what Binky will respond to your latest question on STO.net, hehe.

  User Deleted
10/16/07 11:38:01 AM#14

 

Originally posted by DixonHill

They tolerate, but they disagree. There´s a difference. The latest thread by Binky proves that. A couple of people from here are involved in that thread.

And i dont see why my post serves to demonstarte your point. Because i disagree with u?

And if it is pointless to participate on STO.net only depends on your alignment towards the situation.

You were correct when you stated that your earlier comment did not support my point. It is early here and I need more coffee.

 

By the way, I do admire your command of the English language, it is exceptional.

Now for the quote above. That does prove my point. You acknowledge in the highlighted text, that only those of a particular ALIGNMENT need comment on the STO.net forum, indicating opposing views are futile.

They do not tolerate opposing views. STO.net is not a healthy or representative sample of a much larger Star Trek and MMO fan base and will only serve to reinforce a game philosophy created in an absolute vacuum, void of any alternative viewpoints.

 

  AfroPuff

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/09/06
Posts: 209

10/16/07 11:42:15 AM#15

For pete's sake, PE isn't going to be basing any substantial amount of design around what  folks on some fan forum members think anymore than they would be from here, or on their own official forums for that matter.  We are not going to be designing STO for the developers from game forums.

Yes, there is a lot of smoothing and group norming going on over there, presumably to give PE a soft landing in a naive hope that they'll gain some special relationship with the development team.   This kind of thing happens on fan sites all the time. PE's given out a pet title. Nothing more is forthcoming.  They can try to hold that insular little village together if they want but no matter how hard they try, eventually human nature will out. Especially if they start to grow.

I say leave them be.  You'll have plenty of opportunities to write rants and manifestos once the offical STO boards open. Just don't be deluded into thinking we, or any other forum community, will directly drive development. 

 

 


SWG Team Mtg.

  User Deleted
10/16/07 11:47:36 AM#16

 

I can't disagree with that, but would only add, if you really wanted PE to be aware of any issues any of us has, write a polite and brief busniess letter and send it to them by "snail" mail.

 

 

  Seloth

Novice Member

Joined: 1/24/06
Posts: 388

10/16/07 11:52:50 AM#17

Sorry Bren,

I am NOT going back over there. I was there rationally discussing why I felt that the godseye views of space cambat was flawed in a role playing game, and frankly every last mod there came back with rote responses,  "the devs know what they are doing, they are developers and you are not.", "wait and see how it works", "but you have interiors on the hubs and planets.", "why woudl you want to be "stuck' on one ship serving someone elses orders." Even Dixon here (frorm there obviously), has very little respect or regard to those that do not agree with the party line.  And directly to you Mr. Hill, no the admins there do not disagree they condesend and marginalize anyone that in not mostly for waht they are for. Sorry that is my opinion sir.

If all PE wants is positive feedback then they are going to miss the boat. One of my favorite sayings I learned along time ago was "You have to ask the question that you are afraid of the answer, if you don't you will never close the deal." that was by a gentleman named zig ziggler, doubt anyone knows him on here, but he was a manager of auto dealerships in Dallas in the 702 and 80s, year in and year out every one of his dealerships had the highest sales and highest customer satisfaction of ALL dealerships for that brand.

Darron S. and the rest of PE will attempt to bring a game to market with the Star Trek theme, they will do what they think is right, and frankly i have no faith that they are listening to anyone but the cheerleaders at this point.  

I will continue to watch and opine here. Jacklet at least has some reasonable debate points. If i play the game depends on what the game is. if it is of the same mechanics as E&B, and that is EXACTLY what they have right now, then nope no thanks, been there done that model.

 

  Ozmodan

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/07
Posts: 6814

10/16/07 12:07:25 PM#18

"Pointless to participate on the STO,net threads" now that statement is an understandment. 

I have seen more good posts with constructive suggestions get locked over there because of the ridiculous forum nazis.   You don't dare disagree with their direction.  I will never go back to that forum, it is completely useless.

It is evident to me that PE has no clue what it takes to make a successful MMO in todays environment.

The direction they are taking STO completely invalidates all the ST lore to date.  What is the point of even calling it STO? 

At least Turbine, when they created LOTR kept the lore intact even though it pretty much precluded the pvp that seems to be a need in this genre.

I don't think that PE can survive as a company.  The people who like their design are a small minority.  If they ever launch this game as it exists on paper today, it will be the laughstock of the industry.

If PE wants to be successful, they need to go back to the lore.  You need more than humans as avatars, you need factions.  You need contention in the universe.   You need spaceship bridges, engine rooms, etc.

There are a host of better games if I want to play spaceship online, they need to use the lore to separate themselves or they are lost.

  Jaklet

Novice Member

Joined: 11/17/04
Posts: 251

10/16/07 12:28:45 PM#19



They do not tolerate opposing views


Yet opposing views and negativity is just as prevalent on that forum as it is here, rather bizarre statements to make considering they're simply untrue- even more so in the light of this little invasive effort by bren and co bouncing up and down in their forums with screams for an official forum. One of their threads has been trashed by you guys with the negative spin and criticism, yet it is still unlocked and in progress. <Mod edit>

The difference being, there's positivity over there too, whereas there is none here, <Mod edit>, while they try to dress it up as some kind of respectful debate. Try taking a look at the community you lot think you rule right here before criticising others, because this ain't no pretty sight by far.

Who'd have thought it, people giving up their time and money to run a fansite also happen to be optimistic about the game they're covering. nutjobs

  DixonHill

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/31/05
Posts: 154

10/16/07 12:31:41 PM#20

Even Dixon here (frorm there obviously),

I am not from "there". If i was, i woudnt mind to say so.

has very little respect or regard to those that do not agree with the party line.

Not true,...

And directly to you Mr. Hill, no the admins there do not disagree they condesend and marginalize anyone that in not mostly for waht they are for.

...i only have a different opinion...

Sorry that is my opinion sir.

...as you have yours. No need for apologies.

@ Ozmodan:
The direction they are taking STO completely invalidates all the ST lore to date.  What is the point of even calling it STO? 

Do you have any specific examples?

If they ever launch this game as it exists on paper today, it will be the laughstock of the industry.

Tell me please, how does STO exist on the paper today?

If PE wants to be successful, they need to go back to the lore.  

When did they step back of it? Examples?

You need more than humans as avatars,

There will be 8 or 9 races to choose from.  Maybe some more or less in the end, however, more than just humans :)

you need factions. You need contention in the universe. 

I agree. Most likely only Starfleet at launch, other factions could follow.

You need spaceship bridges, engine rooms, etc.

Who said there are none? Time will tell.

they need to use the lore to separate themselves or they are lost.

Agreed! And...perhaps they will?

There are no lore-invalidations made so far imo.

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