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Star Trek Online Forum » General Discussion » Do not install ARC on your pc !!!

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83 posts found
  Redemp

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/30/05
Posts: 1058

If I didn't respond to you, chances are you're a idiot.

10/06/13 1:30:55 PM#21
Originally posted by Po_gg
Originally posted by zasten
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by WarWitch

....

lol Illegal? Not a chance, you agreed to the program and its functions. If you don't want to have that program spying on you don't install it, It's that simple.

Not illegal, but it is a form of extortion!

If you want to play then you MUST allow it!

Not entirely, while illegal is a harsh word, personal data and its handling is a serious issue over here, and there was already stated that a private company's TOS cannot override EU law. That's why you see lately different TOS'es for US, UK and in some cases for Germany - I mean you see only if you do read TOS of course. (and if you don't, like those mentioned in Davynelord's post, maybe you should watch South Park's Human CentiPad and reconsider :) )

 

Completely out of curiosity I thought that there was precedence/stipulation that TOS's ( and other such agreements ) aren't worth the paper they are written on because you can't prove the document was even read, thus no rights were given regardless of pressing " I accept " . Maybe my interpretation is off though..

 

  sumdumguy1

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/20/11
Posts: 780

10/06/13 1:53:01 PM#22
Originally posted by Redemp
Originally posted by Po_gg
Originally posted by zasten
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by WarWitch

....

lol Illegal? Not a chance, you agreed to the program and its functions. If you don't want to have that program spying on you don't install it, It's that simple.

Not illegal, but it is a form of extortion!

If you want to play then you MUST allow it!

Not entirely, while illegal is a harsh word, personal data and its handling is a serious issue over here, and there was already stated that a private company's TOS cannot override EU law. That's why you see lately different TOS'es for US, UK and in some cases for Germany - I mean you see only if you do read TOS of course. (and if you don't, like those mentioned in Davynelord's post, maybe you should watch South Park's Human CentiPad and reconsider :) )

 

Completely out of curiosity I thought that there was precedence/stipulation that TOS's ( and other such agreements ) aren't worth the paper they are written on because you can't prove the document was even read, thus no rights were given regardless of pressing " I accept " . Maybe my interpretation is off though..

 

Recently courts have ruled in favor of the consumer in similar issues.  One ruling made it to a federal appellate court where the courts upheld the ruling for the consumer.   More and more people that have begun to challenge the agreements are finding out they can win in court if they are willing to put in the time and energy.

 

  Razeekster

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 7/09/11
Posts: 1939

May the game be ever in your favor.

10/06/13 2:31:17 PM#23
Originally posted by Aelious
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by WarWitch

As many know, all PWI games are making it mandatory to install ARC to download and play any pwi game. Read the over 60 page discussion about it on the sto forms and you will find out. ARC installs into your brouser and spys on you from the browser even if no pwi game is being played. This is not anti hack code but spy wear pure and simple. It adds several processes to you pc full time as well. Stay far away from any gaming compony that's stealing your info and reselling it. This has to be illegal. Theirs a lot of talk in the pwi community about a boycott to get pwi to remove ARC completely. Fleets in STo that have survived the pwi buyout and years of gaming are all ready planning to move to other games.

This is as bad as SWG when the 100 thousand patiton  was sent in asking sony to not nge and sony did it anyway.

Sorry my English not so good .

lol Illegal? Not a chance, you agreed to the program and its functions. If you don't want to have that program spying on you don't install it, It's that simple.

 

This is true but if the function of the program goes outside the reason you are installing it for their should be a seperate window clearly declaring what it's doing.  Anyone installing and playing PWI games is doing that, just playing games so if their program reaches farther than that, such as this allegation of hooking into your browser, that's going outside their small print ToS IMO.

 

OP if you think PWI is doing something they aren't supposed to file a complaint:

http://www.onguardonline.gov/filecomplaint

"Unfortunately, the FTC is closed due to the government shutdown."

 

Well, I guess that isn't going to work.

Smile

  Po_gg

Elite Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 2081

10/29/13 10:26:34 AM#24

There's no thread on it in the news section so I put it here,

yesterday PWE spammed the news page of every game with a letter in which they try to calm and pacify the concerns about Arc (http://sto.perfectworld.com/news/?p=1017551 at STO but it's the same on the other pages as well)

Beside the usual PR bullsht there's a few statement worth to notice, first of all that Arc will be the exclusive method of downloading, patching, and launching all Perfect World games (which means the end of my days in Starfleet, so I've just red the rest for the lolz),

the Arc will not gather or share personal information without consent part (as in it will do it, but you can opt out some parts :) ),

Our goal is to create a non-disruptive gaming experience - says the dev of games which have system-wide announcements of every lockbox winners :)

Arc only installs the games you want to play - awesome, I do the same without any help but I'm sure there are masses who are installing games by the dozens (and then never playing them), they will be happy for such a great feature :)

 

Also great lines later in the forum, like "I totally agree that the current launcher is an amazing piece of technology." really? Then why are you so eager to replace it with that crapware?

  maxima29

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/30/13
Posts: 241

10/29/13 11:02:56 AM#25
So my brother who is a big Treky wanted to try this again (we tried it at launch).  First I must say for a casual f2p game it's not bad.  So my question is if I download it from steam like I did does it automatically download this ARC?  
  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5928

10/29/13 11:27:30 AM#26

I wish they would make the launcher process more seamless. It's the same irritation I have with Steam and Ignite, the launch of some games is just klunky. Steam is a lot better in that way though.

The data collection doesn't really bother me. What are they going to do with it? Just in case anyone else wants to know, I spent some time on Facebook last night, MMORPG.com, and the EQ2 forums. I dropped by the Neverwinter forums and let them know they need to add more classes and that one class ever 6 months is bunk. I also spent some time in RPGMaker (shh my dirty little secret), and checking out Teamviewer because I'm thinking of switching from LogMeIn to Teamviewer. I then spent some time on Pogo.com and played some games with my wife. After that I logged into EQ2 and proceeded to grind out reputation in the Sundered Frontier in the heroic instance of "The Hole". They couldn't log the pumpkin carving with the kids, so that's a free bonus for everyone here.

I post that so everyone can sell my activities to a marketing agency so they can sell that to third party sites. See now it's not just Arc that knows what I did last night.

I also let Google and Microsoft collect my data. I opt into their data collection services for both their products and services. I use Google Chrome with Bing as my search engine as I know both collect my data. I enjoy the irony that Microsoft and Google have to share the same information they collect.

Data collection isn't something that really bothers me.

Curse you AquaScum!

  StarSword-C

Novice Member

Joined: 10/29/13
Posts: 1

10/29/13 11:29:07 AM#27
Originally posted by maxima29
So my brother who is a big Treky wanted to try this again (we tried it at launch).  First I must say for a casual f2p game it's not bad.  So my question is if I download it from steam like I did does it automatically download this ARC?  

Not yet.  Also the Steam version has the advantage of making buying zen extremely painless:  instead of having to deal with Paypal or credit card numbers and so forth (it's glitchy, on top of the privacy concerns), you can pay in seconds out of your Steam wallet.

Keep fighting the good fight, people.  I have no use for Arc because STO is the only PWE game I ever play.  Never needed it before, and I don't plan on starting now.  And for folks who don't like Steam (I know they're still out there, lol) http://tinyurl.com/mffj8ub is the standalone (read: Arc-free) STO installer that PWE still has buried somewhere on the website.

  Po_gg

Elite Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 2081

10/29/13 11:29:35 AM#28

Not yet, it'd be strange if steam would allow a competitor to step between them and their users :) or with the dev's words from the forum:

"The current scope of development does not involve any changes to Steam. As with any software in development, plans are of course subject to change, though for now the goal is for it to remain possible to launch STO directly from Steam."

Imo that for now and subject to change means either they'll find a way somehow to bypass steam, or they simply remove the games from steam and directing everybody under Arc.

 

Edit: StarSword was faster :)

  Karahandras

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/08
Posts: 1667

All it takes for evil to succeed is for the good to stand by and do nothing

10/29/13 11:34:25 AM#29
Originally posted by Po_gg

There's no thread on it in the news section so I put it here,

yesterday PWE spammed the news page of every game with a letter in which they try to calm and pacify the concerns about Arc (http://sto.perfectworld.com/news/?p=1017551 at STO but it's the same on the other pages as well)

Beside the usual PR bullsht there's a few statement worth to notice, first of all that Arc will be the exclusive method of downloading, patching, and launching all Perfect World games (which means the end of my days in Starfleet, so I've just red the rest for the lolz),

the Arc will not gather or share personal information without consent part (as in it will do it, but you can opt out some parts :) ),

Our goal is to create a non-disruptive gaming experience - says the dev of games which have system-wide announcements of every lockbox winners :)

Arc only installs the games you want to play - awesome, I do the same without any help but I'm sure there are masses who are installing games by the dozens (and then never playing them), they will be happy for such a great feature :)

 

Also great lines later in the forum, like "I totally agree that the current launcher is an amazing piece of technology." really? Then why are you so eager to replace it with that crapware?

It's possible they(and others) could argue that you give your consent when you click accept.

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5928

10/29/13 11:49:11 AM#30
Originally posted by Po_gg

Not yet, it'd be strange if steam would allow a competitor to step between them and their users :) or with the dev's words from the forum:

"The current scope of development does not involve any changes to Steam. As with any software in development, plans are of course subject to change, though for now the goal is for it to remain possible to launch STO directly from Steam."

Imo that for now and subject to change means either they'll find a way somehow to bypass steam, or they simply remove the games from steam and directing everybody under Arc.

Edit: StarSword was faster :)

Have you ever considered that Valve/Steam shares whatever data they collect with PWE? PWE gets the benefit of an increased audience by having their game on Steam. They would need to see better money by removing it. I doubt that will happen. Steam sees increased revenue by the Zen sales. It's entirely possible they have a relationship where they share certain data. Everyone has just assumed Steam isn't collecting data themselves, or that PWE is selling it instead of using it for metrics and marketing for themselves.

Curse you AquaScum!

  Po_gg

Elite Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 2081

10/29/13 1:22:01 PM#31
Originally posted by Torvaldr

Have you ever considered that Valve/Steam shares whatever data they collect with PWE? PWE gets the benefit of an increased audience by having their game on Steam. They would need to see better money by removing it. I doubt that will happen. Steam sees increased revenue by the Zen sales. It's entirely possible they have a relationship where they share certain data. Everyone has just assumed Steam isn't collecting data themselves, or that PWE is selling it instead of using it for metrics and marketing for themselves.

That's the present, with PWE is just one of the many publishers in partnership with steam. The situation will be different when they'll try to force their own steam-clone onto everyone. Just check EA and their relation to steam after they started to push origin...

  Karahandras

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/08
Posts: 1667

All it takes for evil to succeed is for the good to stand by and do nothing

10/29/13 1:39:35 PM#32
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by Po_gg

Not yet, it'd be strange if steam would allow a competitor to step between them and their users :) or with the dev's words from the forum:

"The current scope of development does not involve any changes to Steam. As with any software in development, plans are of course subject to change, though for now the goal is for it to remain possible to launch STO directly from Steam."

Imo that for now and subject to change means either they'll find a way somehow to bypass steam, or they simply remove the games from steam and directing everybody under Arc.

Edit: StarSword was faster :)

Have you ever considered that Valve/Steam shares whatever data they collect with PWE? PWE gets the benefit of an increased audience by having their game on Steam. They would need to see better money by removing it. I doubt that will happen. Steam sees increased revenue by the Zen sales. It's entirely possible they have a relationship where they share certain data. Everyone has just assumed Steam isn't collecting data themselves, or that PWE is selling it instead of using it for metrics and marketing for themselves.

Could also be possible that companies like pwe have to pay for the info that valve collects in some way, which could be one reason for arc(and that they could, in turn, sell that data as you said).

edit:they also use very ambiguous terms for what they collect and they also seem to get hacked quite regularly so you end up with no control over what info they have and who ends up with it.

  Po_gg

Elite Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 2081

10/30/13 3:15:43 AM#33

Anyway, until this Arc-sh.t hits the fan I think I'll need to shorten the shore leave of my klingon (left him on Risa after the event), because it's Worf-time :)

http://www.startrek.com/article/first-look-worf-returns-to-trek-we-talk-to-michael-dorn

  Hosanin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/11/11
Posts: 3

11/21/13 10:21:28 PM#34

Been using ARC since it went live, never had a single problem. No extra processes, no browser plug-ins, nothing OP listed. I use Google Chrome for a browser BTW. Installed ARC on tree separate computers to see if OS and browser made a difference, here's the results:

Win XP(Home/Pro): No extra processes

Chrome- empty

IE- empty

Opera- empty

Mozilla-  empty

Win7 (home/pro/ult): No extra processes

Chrome- empty

IE- empty

Opera- empty

Mozilla-  empty

Win8: No extra Processes

Chrome- empty

IE- empty

Opera- empty

Mozilla-  empty

  Ujirik

Novice Member

Joined: 3/27/07
Posts: 457

11/21/13 10:43:43 PM#35

Do you know anything about computers or programs in general?  

Arc doesn't install any bloatware, doesn't spy on you and doesn't run any hidden processes.  

Yes, Arc does install a plugin named ArcPlugin to your internet browser.  Why would it do something like that?  

Oh yeah, that's because most Perfect World games have a Play Now button on the website that allows you to launch the game from your browser.  It's simply a plugin that allows you to launch Arc from your browser and nothing more.

Seriously, no reason to put on tin foil hats and go crazy.  It's an innocent game launcher with your best interest at heart.  PWE wants you to install their launcher because it makes you more likely to try their other games.  Don't worry, your CP collection and torrents are safe.

  BearKnight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/24/13
Posts: 450

12/02/13 2:30:29 PM#36
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by WarWitch

As many know, all PWI games are making it mandatory to install ARC to download and play any pwi game. Read the over 60 page discussion about it on the sto forms and you will find out. ARC installs into your brouser and spys on you from the browser even if no pwi game is being played. This is not anti hack code but spy wear pure and simple. It adds several processes to you pc full time as well. Stay far away from any gaming compony that's stealing your info and reselling it. This has to be illegal. Theirs a lot of talk in the pwi community about a boycott to get pwi to remove ARC completely. Fleets in STo that have survived the pwi buyout and years of gaming are all ready planning to move to other games.

This is as bad as SWG when the 100 thousand patiton  was sent in asking sony to not nge and sony did it anyway.

Sorry my English not so good .

lol Illegal? Not a chance, you agreed to the program and its functions. If you don't want to have that program spying on you don't install it, It's that simple.

It has been proven time and time again both in UK and US courts that EULAs do not allow companies to navigate around illegal practices simply because they were agreed to.

 

This is illegal, and they can be sued if someone whom has enough money wants to prove a point. It has been done before, and will most likely be done again. PWI are running a thin line that will eventually run them up a creek.

 

As for STO, I just googled for the F2P installer and found it on fileplanet. It's about a year out of date but installed and updated in about 15minutes on my 50meg connectoin :P. Should be no longer than an hour or two for some of you with DSL connections :)!

  Karahandras

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/08
Posts: 1667

All it takes for evil to succeed is for the good to stand by and do nothing

12/07/13 3:57:19 PM#37
Originally posted by Ujirik

Do you know anything about computers or programs in general?  

Arc doesn't install any bloatware, doesn't spy on you and doesn't run any hidden processes.  

Yes, Arc does install a plugin named ArcPlugin to your internet browser.  Why would it do something like that?  

Oh yeah, that's because most Perfect World games have a Play Now button on the website that allows you to launch the game from your browser.  It's simply a plugin that allows you to launch Arc from your browser and nothing more.

Seriously, no reason to put on tin foil hats and go crazy.  It's an innocent game launcher with your best interest at heart.  PWE wants you to install their launcher because it makes you more likely to try their other games.  Don't worry, your CP collection and torrents are safe.

You're suggesting that unlike steam, origin etc. arc is just a game launcher.  At least at the moment? But just because it does one thing doesn't mean it can't(or won't) do others in the background.  Personally I'll wait until I get to read the terms and pp before I decide(and as long as I don't have to have the plugin).

And your cp's aren't exactly save as they're being transfered to zen at a rate of 80 zen per 100 cp's.

  gigat

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/24/10
Posts: 606

12/07/13 4:19:47 PM#38
Originally posted by Karahandras
Originally posted by gigat

Just curious, but how do you know they are taking your information and selling it?  I have ARC installed right now for STO, but it's not running and I don't see any extra processes in Task Manager (unless it's running under one of the "svchost.exe" processes).  I see the ArcPlugin in Firefox, but it's disabled now.

At first it seems odd that they would automatically install the ArcPlugin in your browser, but I'm guessing it serves a similar purpose as Origin's browser functionality for launching Battlefield 3.

 

So back to my question, how do you know they are selling your information?  How do you know they are gathering information?  Isn't it possible that the ArcPlugin simply ties your browser to the desktop application, allowing you to launch the game from the game's official website?

 

I'm not trying to argue, I'm just looking for evidence.  I'd like to get the facts straight before I join the mob and raise a fuss!  If there is evidence to prove they are gathering my info and selling it, then I will gladly uninstall and boycott ARC!

Should be in the terms and conitions and the privacy policy.  Not always very legible though and you may need to hunt for the right t&c/pp.

Also if it stores the info like steam etc. and then transfers during updates and so on there should be a folder or two somewhere on your hd.  But i hear arc streams the info so not sure on this.

Can you please provide a link or an excerpt which backs your claim?  You (and others) are making the claim, therefore the burden of proof is on you, not me.

Since you are making such a bold claim, I assume you have actually read the terms and conditions, so it shouldn't be any trouble for you to point out the evidence, correct?

  Karahandras

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/08
Posts: 1667

All it takes for evil to succeed is for the good to stand by and do nothing

12/07/13 6:52:05 PM#39
Originally posted by gigat
Originally posted by Karahandras
Originally posted by gigat

Just curious, but how do you know they are taking your information and selling it?  I have ARC installed right now for STO, but it's not running and I don't see any extra processes in Task Manager (unless it's running under one of the "svchost.exe" processes).  I see the ArcPlugin in Firefox, but it's disabled now.

At first it seems odd that they would automatically install the ArcPlugin in your browser, but I'm guessing it serves a similar purpose as Origin's browser functionality for launching Battlefield 3.

 

So back to my question, how do you know they are selling your information?  How do you know they are gathering information?  Isn't it possible that the ArcPlugin simply ties your browser to the desktop application, allowing you to launch the game from the game's official website?

 

I'm not trying to argue, I'm just looking for evidence.  I'd like to get the facts straight before I join the mob and raise a fuss!  If there is evidence to prove they are gathering my info and selling it, then I will gladly uninstall and boycott ARC!

Should be in the terms and conitions and the privacy policy.  Not always very legible though and you may need to hunt for the right t&c/pp.

Also if it stores the info like steam etc. and then transfers during updates and so on there should be a folder or two somewhere on your hd.  But i hear arc streams the info so not sure on this.

Can you please provide a link or an excerpt which backs your claim?  You (and others) are making the claim, therefore the burden of proof is on you, not me.

Since you are making such a bold claim, I assume you have actually read the terms and conditions, so it shouldn't be any trouble for you to point out the evidence, correct?

What claim?  I haven't made any with regards to arc.

And btw you're the one that's using it and should have read the terms and privacy's before you accpeted and be informing us what you read.

  gigat

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/24/10
Posts: 606

12/07/13 11:44:14 PM#40
Originally posted by Karahandras
Originally posted by gigat
Originally posted by Karahandras
Originally posted by gigat

Just curious, but how do you know they are taking your information and selling it?  I have ARC installed right now for STO, but it's not running and I don't see any extra processes in Task Manager (unless it's running under one of the "svchost.exe" processes).  I see the ArcPlugin in Firefox, but it's disabled now.

At first it seems odd that they would automatically install the ArcPlugin in your browser, but I'm guessing it serves a similar purpose as Origin's browser functionality for launching Battlefield 3.

 

So back to my question, how do you know they are selling your information?  How do you know they are gathering information?  Isn't it possible that the ArcPlugin simply ties your browser to the desktop application, allowing you to launch the game from the game's official website?

 

I'm not trying to argue, I'm just looking for evidence.  I'd like to get the facts straight before I join the mob and raise a fuss!  If there is evidence to prove they are gathering my info and selling it, then I will gladly uninstall and boycott ARC!

Should be in the terms and conitions and the privacy policy.  Not always very legible though and you may need to hunt for the right t&c/pp.

Also if it stores the info like steam etc. and then transfers during updates and so on there should be a folder or two somewhere on your hd.  But i hear arc streams the info so not sure on this.

Can you please provide a link or an excerpt which backs your claim?  You (and others) are making the claim, therefore the burden of proof is on you, not me.

Since you are making such a bold claim, I assume you have actually read the terms and conditions, so it shouldn't be any trouble for you to point out the evidence, correct?

What claim?  I haven't made any with regards to arc.

And btw you're the one that's using it and should have read the terms and privacy's before you accpeted and be informing us what you read.

 

Someone has claimed that PWI is gathering information and selling it using ARC.  The person making the claim must have evidence, otherwise they are just spewing nonsense.  If they can't provide evidence, then anything they say should be treated with scrutiny.  Simple as that.

 

To be honest, I don't like Perfect World or Cryptic.  I have no interest in defending them, but I do have an interest in getting the facts straight before I raise pitchforks.  If there is evidence of any wrong-doing, then someone should have posted that evidence all over the Internet in order to bring justice to this company.  Since this hasn't happened, I can only assume that the OP is full of shit.  Wouldn't you agree?

 

 

edit - Also sorry about the way I replied.  I just found it absurd that I asked for evidence, and the only reply was a suggestion to read the terms and conditions.  You could be absolutely correct that the evidence is in there.  I'm just surprised no one (particularly the accuser) has pointed the exact statement which confirms the accusation. You know what I mean?

For all I know, the accusation might be entirely true, but the OP might also be blowing it out of proportion.  This tends to happen a lot on the Internet!

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