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Originally posted by Dihoru
OH MAH GAWD!!! WE HAVE TO WORK FOR SOMETHING!!

Really gents, really? The bugs I'd admit to being bad...if I'd ever run into a bug (seriously I don't remember ever having a bug in that game and I've played every inch of it) and as for the game itself... me and a friend fire it up a few times a year to do STFs and other shit together and have fun, the game in that way is fun, if I were to play it non-stop it likely would get boring but meh, at least the F2P system is fair, they respected their former subs when they went F2P and say what you will about the foundry system but I've had quite a few epic adventures in it and took the time to thank the people who made them and while it is a bit harsh for Cryptic not to give them credit (but as I haven't yet seen them not do it I will hold my reaction for this if the foundry stuff gets put in and the people don't get credited) but in the end the people who made the content did so to enrich their community and offer people some awesome adventures which the top ones did and en some, if you think they deserve praise (which I certainly do) thank them yourselves (I did that).

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You only fire up the game a few times a year? Jeez, I play the game more than you it seems, and I like the game less! Weird.

Originally posted by Cacaphony

 

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Originally posted by Dihoru
OH MAH GAWD!!! WE HAVE TO WORK FOR SOMETHING!!

 

Really gents, really? The bugs I'd admit to being bad...if I'd ever run into a bug (seriously I don't remember ever having a bug in that game and I've played every inch of it) and as for the game itself... me and a friend fire it up a few times a year to do STFs and other shit together and have fun, the game in that way is fun, if I were to play it non-stop it likely would get boring but meh, at least the F2P system is fair, they respected their former subs when they went F2P and say what you will about the foundry system but I've had quite a few epic adventures in it and took the time to thank the people who made them and while it is a bit harsh for Cryptic not to give them credit (but as I haven't yet seen them not do it I will hold my reaction for this if the foundry stuff gets put in and the people don't get credited) but in the end the people who made the content did so to enrich their community and offer people some awesome adventures which the top ones did and en some, if you think they deserve praise (which I certainly do) thank them yourselves (I did that).

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Really, yes, really. Its typical forum stuff. I complain about something or praise something, and people come in and dump all over it. Sort of like what you just did, and I guess what I just did to you. See the circle going on here? :P

STO is good for some, and absolutely terrible for others. Can't change that, and can't stop people from saying so.

Yeah but it's one of the few themepark games that isn't going to Hell in a handbasket yet, why shit on it?

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Originally posted by Dihoru

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Originally posted by Cacaphony  

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Originally posted by Dihoru OH MAH GAWD!!! WE HAVE TO WORK FOR SOMETHING!!   Really gents, really? The bugs I'd admit to being bad...if I'd ever run into a bug (seriously I don't remember ever having a bug in that game and I've played every inch of it) and as for the game itself... me and a friend fire it up a few times a year to do STFs and other shit together and have fun, the game in that way is fun, if I were to play it non-stop it likely would get boring but meh, at least the F2P system is fair, they respected their former subs when they went F2P and say what you will about the foundry system but I've had quite a few epic adventures in it and took the time to thank the people who made them and while it is a bit harsh for Cryptic not to give them credit (but as I haven't yet seen them not do it I will hold my reaction for this if the foundry stuff gets put in and the people don't get credited) but in the end the people who made the content did so to enrich their community and offer people some awesome adventures which the top ones did and en some, if you think they deserve praise (which I certainly do) thank them yourselves (I did that).

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  Really, yes, really. Its typical forum stuff. I complain about something or praise something, and people come in and dump all over it. Sort of like what you just did, and I guess what I just did to you. See the circle going on here? :P STO is good for some, and absolutely terrible for others. Can't change that, and can't stop people from saying so.

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Yeah but it's one of the few themepark games that isn't going to Hell in a handbasket yet, why shit on it?

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Why not? It IS pretty bad. While were at it, why do people shit on GW2, WOW, and every MMO made EVER! Everyone has an opinion. And I edited my post but you seem to have caught my long-windedness. And I guess you are accurate to an extent about the hell in a handbasket part. Usually the forums blow up into shit storm city.

But, this is only my opinion, formed over time since closed beta. Meh, Im sorry if we don't agree. :P

Grinds are nessisary and STO does it more fairly than many oher games I've seen.  In WOW you grind for weeks or months in raid to get the best gear only to have them become trash when the next xpac or patch comes out.  In the Diablo series you have to slay thousands of mobs to have something descent drop, grant it's fun as hell, you have to do multiple runs to get what you want.   

 

You do get rewarded well for your efforts.  In STO you earn dilithium which can be use to buy a large selection of items, the dilithium/zen exchange is player run so you buy Z-store (cash) items, you don't have to pay anything!  The devs at Cryptic are so pleased with this system that they are putting it into all their games.  Champions has questionite, Neverwinter will have astral diamonds.

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Originally posted by Mondo80
Grinds are nessisary and STO does it more fairly than many oher games I've seen.  In WOW you grind for weeks or months in raid to get the best gear only to have them become trash when the next xpac or patch comes out.  In the Diablo series you have to slay thousands of mobs to have something descent drop, grant it's fun as hell, you have to do multiple runs to get what you want.   

 

You do get rewarded well for your efforts.  In STO you earn dilithium which can be use to buy a large selection of items, the dilithium/zen exchange is player run so you buy Z-store (cash) items, you don't have to pay anything!  The devs at Cryptic are so pleased with this system that they are putting it into all their games.  Champions has questionite, Neverwinter will have astral diamonds.

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I understand what your saying and I can't really say I disagree with most of your post. The part I take issue with is the combination of grind added with lockboxes, when master keys that don't drop as loot ingame (if they do, I've never got one as loot). You MUST purchase them in the C store. Some don't take issue with that at all, but I do.

Yes, grind is a part of MMO's, but I just cant convince myself that Cryptic does it all that well. Again, my opinion, I just have stubborn opinions that won't change that easily. They haven't changed since launch, but I am always waiting for Cryptic to do something to let me change my opinion.

Ive loved Star Trek since when The Next Generation was a new series, and I guess some of my trepadations about this game come from how the game actually turned out compared to my idea of what a trek MMO should be. I admit, its my fault for not adapting, but there it is.

In any case, I like aspects of STO, but not enough to convince me its all that great.

Tried 5 times since open Beta to get back into this game.  I still can't get past the fundemental flaws of this game.  Had so much potential.

All of Cryptic's game are and have been like this and will also be like this in Neverwinter Online.  They use the same crappy engine, the same design philosophy and the same pathetic support after release.  Yet the hamsters continue to pay for each new game despite their awful track record and even worse, continue to keep their games making money when they don't deserve the income they get.  This is the biggest reason for the incredibly slow change in this genre.  No matter how stinky the game, there will always be enough stooges to make them profitable at least in the short term and usually even longer than that.

It's almost like the gamer population are addicts and will take any fix they can get and thank you sir, may I have another.

Originally posted by Vorthanion

All of Cryptic's game are and have been like this and will also be like this in Neverwinter Online.  They use the same crappy engine, the same design philosophy and the same pathetic support after release.  Yet the hamsters continue to pay for each new game despite their awful track record and even worse, continue to keep their games making money when they don't deserve the income they get.  This is the biggest reason for the incredibly slow change in this genre.  No matter how stinky the game, there will always be enough stooges to make them profitable at least in the short term and usually even longer than that.

It's almost like the gamer population are addicts and will take any fix they can get and thank you sir, may I have another.

Translation of what he said: I HAVE AN OPINION AND I AM VERY SURE IT IS FACT SO HEAR ME NOW LESSER PEOPLE!

 

Sorry but demonizing Cryptic who've stuck with their games and done a decent job in the end where as EA/Bioware, SOE, etc have fucked their games over consistently while giving the big middle finger to their player bases just smacks of either shortsightedness or an agenda.

But just to humour you:

-the engine works, may not be pretty but it works;

-their design philosophy while not innovative is still one based on polish, if they give you a turd of a game they at least give you a turd that works as you'd expect and they fix major issues with their games and add in more content as time passes by and their design philosophy also led to the birth of the foundry system and the in-game currency to zen exchange both of which are features which I truly hope every F2P themepark MMO developer emulates one day;

-had a few dealings with their tech support and account support guys, it did take a week for them to get around to me but afterwards during the process of solving my issues their replies took at worse a day so while not stellar, certainly not CCP level support, it is for a F2P developer still 4/5 service from my point of view.

Originally posted by Cacaphony

 

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Originally posted by Mondo80
Grinds are nessisary and STO does it more fairly than many oher games I've seen.  In WOW you grind for weeks or months in raid to get the best gear only to have them become trash when the next xpac or patch comes out.  In the Diablo series you have to slay thousands of mobs to have something descent drop, grant it's fun as hell, you have to do multiple runs to get what you want.   

 

 

You do get rewarded well for your efforts.  In STO you earn dilithium which can be use to buy a large selection of items, the dilithium/zen exchange is player run so you buy Z-store (cash) items, you don't have to pay anything!  The devs at Cryptic are so pleased with this system that they are putting it into all their games.  Champions has questionite, Neverwinter will have astral diamonds.

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I understand what your saying and I can't really say I disagree with most of your post. The part I take issue with is the combination of grind added with lockboxes, when master keys that don't drop as loot ingame (if they do, I've never got one as loot). You MUST purchase them in the C store. Some don't take issue with that at all, but I do.

Yes, grind is a part of MMO's, but I just cant convince myself that Cryptic does it all that well. Again, my opinion, I just have stubborn opinions that won't change that easily. They haven't changed since launch, but I am always waiting for Cryptic to do something to let me change my opinion.

Ive loved Star Trek since when The Next Generation was a new series, and I guess some of my trepadations about this game come from how the game actually turned out compared to my idea of what a trek MMO should be. I admit, its my fault for not adapting, but there it is.

In any case, I like aspects of STO, but not enough to convince me its all that great.

 

The keys a non bound item, you can sell or buy them on the exchange. Same goes for the lockboxes and many of the items in the boxes.  The lockboxes are like a lotery, you don't have to play if you don't want to.  The Devs are working their butts of to get the game to where they want it, they know the released to early (Atari's fault and the previous studio spent 4 out 6 years just making consept art with NO WORKING game engine)

 

I loved the Next Generation too, it was a great successor series.  With the first series we got celphones, hospital beds with equipment to moniter the patients condition and computers in the workplace.  With the second we got touchscreens, table pcs, a graphical user interface and the internet.

Originally posted by Dihoru

Originally posted by Vorthanion

All of Cryptic's game are and have been like this and will also be like this in Neverwinter Online.  They use the same crappy engine, the same design philosophy and the same pathetic support after release.  Yet the hamsters continue to pay for each new game despite their awful track record and even worse, continue to keep their games making money when they don't deserve the income they get.  This is the biggest reason for the incredibly slow change in this genre.  No matter how stinky the game, there will always be enough stooges to make them profitable at least in the short term and usually even longer than that.

It's almost like the gamer population are addicts and will take any fix they can get and thank you sir, may I have another.

Translation of what he said: I HAVE AN OPINION AND I AM VERY SURE IT IS FACT SO HEAR ME NOW LESSER PEOPLE!

 

Sorry but demonizing Cryptic who've stuck with their games and done a decent job in the end where as EA/Bioware, SOE, etc have fucked their games over consistently while giving the big middle finger to their player bases just smacks of either shortsightedness or an agenda.

But just to humour you:

-the engine works, may not be pretty but it works;

-their design philosophy while not innovative is still one based on polish, if they give you a turd of a game they at least give you a turd that works as you'd expect and they fix major issues with their games and add in more content as time passes by and their design philosophy also led to the birth of the foundry system and the in-game currency to zen exchange both of which are features which I truly hope every F2P themepark MMO developer emulates one day;

-had a few dealings with their tech support and account support guys, it did take a week for them to get around to me but afterwards during the process of solving my issues their replies took at worse a day so while not stellar, certainly not CCP level support, it is for a F2P developer still 4/5 service from my point of view.

Apologist.  Cryptic has a well deserved bad reputation and I am by far not the only one to point it out.  Sorry to burst your bubble.

Originally posted by Vorthanion

Originally posted by Dihoru

Originally posted by Vorthanion

All of Cryptic's game are and have been like this and will also be like this in Neverwinter Online.  They use the same crappy engine, the same design philosophy and the same pathetic support after release.  Yet the hamsters continue to pay for each new game despite their awful track record and even worse, continue to keep their games making money when they don't deserve the income they get.  This is the biggest reason for the incredibly slow change in this genre.  No matter how stinky the game, there will always be enough stooges to make them profitable at least in the short term and usually even longer than that.

It's almost like the gamer population are addicts and will take any fix they can get and thank you sir, may I have another.

Translation of what he said: I HAVE AN OPINION AND I AM VERY SURE IT IS FACT SO HEAR ME NOW LESSER PEOPLE!

 

Sorry but demonizing Cryptic who've stuck with their games and done a decent job in the end where as EA/Bioware, SOE, etc have fucked their games over consistently while giving the big middle finger to their player bases just smacks of either shortsightedness or an agenda.

But just to humour you:

-the engine works, may not be pretty but it works;

-their design philosophy while not innovative is still one based on polish, if they give you a turd of a game they at least give you a turd that works as you'd expect and they fix major issues with their games and add in more content as time passes by and their design philosophy also led to the birth of the foundry system and the in-game currency to zen exchange both of which are features which I truly hope every F2P themepark MMO developer emulates one day;

-had a few dealings with their tech support and account support guys, it did take a week for them to get around to me but afterwards during the process of solving my issues their replies took at worse a day so while not stellar, certainly not CCP level support, it is for a F2P developer still 4/5 service from my point of view.

Apologist.  Cryptic has a well deserved bad reputation and I am by far not the only one to point it out.  Sorry to burst your bubble.

+1

And I almost keeled over with laughter with the " polish" line. STO is the most buggy, laggy and jerky game I have played in years and it's been out for three years now. Other games that have been released since that time (Rift,TOR,GW2) have much smoother gameplay. They might have some bugs, but at least you do not feel like you are playing a beta stage game. 

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by Vorthanion

 

Originally posted by Dihoru

Originally posted by Vorthanion

All of Cryptic's game are and have been like this .......

Translation of what he said: I HAVE AN OPINION AND I AM VERY SURE IT IS FACT SO HEAR ME NOW LESSER PEOPLE!

 

Sorry but demonizing Cryptic ......

Apologist.  Cryptic has a well deserved bad reputation and I am by far not the only one to point it out.  Sorry to burst your bubble.

+1

And I almost keeled over with laughter with the " polish" line. STO is the most buggy, laggy and jerky game I have played in years and it's been out for three years now. Other games that have been released since that time (Rift,TOR,GW2) have much smoother gameplay. They might have some bugs, but at least you do not feel like you are playing a beta stage game. 

I wholly concur with ktanner3 and Vorthanion. I'll also add Dihoru, there's a saying " the pot calling the kettle black ". You came and criticed people for doing the exact same thing you are doing now. While you had some points they are lost now. As was pointed out earlier Cryptic uses the same formula to dev the past 4 games. While it may have had initial success , it certainly hasn't carried over to the past 2 and if employed in the future will probably end in the same poor manner. It isn't that they use the same formula . It's that they don't learn from it and they insist on it. Producing a game in 16 mo is not an achievement unless you are selling to a financial manager or a corporate board. So is it a wonder that so many people don't view their games as an achievement as anything more then average to subaverage games ?

A game does not have to be great to be great. SWTOR has far better graphics than Minecraft but Minecraft sold way more than SWTOR.

Cryptic/Perfect World games are just cheap fun games. If STO cost as much as SWTOR to make, it would be absolutley pathetic, but given their budget, STO is still more long term fun than SWTOR despite its flaws.

None of their games are expected to have millions of players, and they only have one server. It is like saying a Mini is not as fast as a Ferrari. Having a Ferrari just get from A to B and not be a fan of cars is a waste of money, and a Mini would be the best choice, but if you have the money and like fast cars then a Ferrari is a good choice. SWTOR is like a Ferrari, and STO / Perfect World games are like a Mini. They are only crap if you expect perfection more than fun

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Originally posted by Mondo80

Grinds are nessisary and STO does it more fairly than many oher games I've seen.

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It may be fair for new players, but the rep systems royally shafts veteran players.

I had unlocked the Borg Space set years ago from running STFs with all my alts.

Then Cryptic updated the STFs to the previous system where you needed Omega marks to turn in for gear. So I ran hundreds upon hundreds of STFs to get the MACO and OMEGA space and ground sets for my characters.

Now, I have to grind YET AGAIN to go through the rep system to unlock gear I had already unlocked in the store ON THE SAME CHARACTERS IN ADDITION TO paying through the nose dilithium prices!

The rep system isn't alt friendly either. You're so sick of running the same crap missions hundreds of times for one character, you just don't want to do it anymore. The content just isn't that good and the arbitrary completion timers are a joke.

Sure, grinds are part of every MMO. How this particular one was deployed with regard to vets of STO stunk.

Personally I quit because of the ridiculous reputation system they have in place now. No matter how much you grind Fleet Actions or STFs or anything at all, your limited to at most one upgrade every 2 days at top lvl because of the dilithium refinement cap and everything of any use requiring said refined dilithium. I can basically log on for an hr and cap out my dilithium and then I'm basically done being able to do anything productive for the day thanks to the refinement cap and no other way to obtain any form of upgrades. I'll take the old system where one could actually grind out STFs and such all day long if they so chose to obtain upgrades. I simply don't like having a time limit placed on my game play is all :\

Originally posted by kyssari
Personally I quit because of the ridiculous reputation system they have in place now. No matter how much you grind Fleet Actions or STFs or anything at all, your limited to at most one upgrade every 2 days at top lvl because of the dilithium refinement cap and everything of any use requiring said refined dilithium. I can basically log on for an hr and cap out my dilithium and then I'm basically done being able to do anything productive for the day thanks to the refinement cap and no other way to obtain any form of upgrades. I'll take the old system where one could actually grind out STFs and such all day long if they so chose to obtain upgrades. I simply don't like having a time limit placed on my game play is all :\

I understand why game companies put them in , but I strongly disagree with limits.. It's nothing more than a stupid attempt to level the playing field for everyone. As someone who considers himself a casual I say let the hardcore folks have the advantage. If someone is willing to put in long hours to grind out that special title  or advantage, who cares if they have a leg up on someone who puts in less time? They earned it. That's the way it is suppose to work. 

one top level upgrade every second day is very fast

go to other mmos, and see, how long it will take

if they made it faster, the game would lose all long term appeal

cant you just make alts, and let them refine it?