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47 posts found
  Rohn

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/02/08
Posts: 3762

 
OP  12/10/12 9:56:29 AM#21
Originally posted by ShardWarrior

 


You neglected to mention that it is 25 runs per character you would want the ship rewardfor. So if you have half a dozen characters you want the reward for, that is 6 x (5 x 25) = 750 minutes which equals 12 1/2 hours of the same menial task over and over again. At what point does it become boring?

 

 

Funniest thing I've seen here is a while.

So, to make the "hellish" grind actually sound bad, you ran the numbers for 6 characters.  Hey, why not run it for 100 characters - that would make it sound even worse....  LOL

From start to finish - taking the mission, talking to the race official, running the race, and turning it in - the entire process takes less than two and a half minutes to complete.

That means the "arduous" grind for a character to earn the ship would take about an hour total time, spread out over 25 days.  Yeah, that's a horrible grind....  

In the realm of grind in MMOs, that's nothing.  It's actually really easy.  Again, the "grind" is blown completely out of proportion.

The instant gratification mentality has just been KILLING the MMO genre.

Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.

  ShardWarrior

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/18/11
Posts: 296

12/10/12 10:11:04 AM#22


Originally posted by Rohn

Funniest thing I've seen here is a while.



Nowhere near as funny (or more accurately, sad) as the blind faith and loyalty of the Cryptic/PWE supporter. It is truly sad to see folks out there who take any scrap of what can barely be called "content" and cry "more please!"



So, to make the "hellish" grind actually sound bad, you ran the numbers for 6 characters.


Yes, I did. I happen to have 4 Federation VA's and 2 Klingon LGs. I am most certainly not the only person with several alts as I know several people myself who have even more than that. Guess what? It is still a boring, repetitive task, even with just 1 character. Fairy dust and wishful thinking does not change that.


From start to finish - taking the mission, talking to the race official, running the race, and turning it in - the entire process takes less than two and a half minutes. That means the "arduous" grind for a character to earn the ship would take about an hour total time, spread out over 25 days.  Yeah, that's a horrible grind....


You seem to be missing the whole point. Repetition = boring.



The instant gratification mentality has just been KILLING the MMO genre.


I am still waiting on you showing a post I made where I expressly said otherwise. Ignoring what many have asked for - EPISODIC CONTENT - instead of silly snowball fights and races is not going to make it go away. Add these kinds of things as EPISODE/QUEST rewards, not rewards for how long you can sit in front of a computer pressing W A S D until your eyes bleed.

  Rohn

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/02/08
Posts: 3762

 
OP  12/10/12 10:36:45 AM#23
Originally posted by ShardWarrior

 


 

Originally posted by Rohn

Funniest thing I've seen here is a while.


 


Nowhere near as funny (or more accurately, sad) as the blind faith and loyalty of the Cryptic/PWE supporter. It is truly sad to see folks out there who take any scrap of what can barely be called "content" and cry "more please!"

 


So, to make the "hellish" grind actually sound bad, you ran the numbers for 6 characters.

 


Yes, I did. I happen to have 4 Federation VA's and 2 Klingon LGs. I am most certainly not the only person with several alts as I know several people myself who have even more than that. Guess what? It is still a boring, repetitive task, even with just 1 character. Fairy dust and wishful thinking does not change that.

 

 


From start to finish - taking the mission, talking to the race official, running the race, and turning it in - the entire process takes less than two and a half minutes. That means the "arduous" grind for a character to earn the ship would take about an hour total time, spread out over 25 days.  Yeah, that's a horrible grind....

 


You seem to be missing the whole point. Repetition = boring.

 


The instant gratification mentality has just been KILLING the MMO genre.

 


I am still waiting on you showing a post I made where I expressly said otherwise. Ignoring what many have asked for - EPISODIC CONTENT - instead of silly snowball fights and races is not going to make it go away. Add these kinds of things as EPISODE/QUEST rewards, not rewards for how long you can sit in front of a computer pressing W A S D until your eyes bleed.

 

Doing anything in any MMO with 6 different characters is going to be repetitive.  Good lord.  

Doing the same story content six different times would also get repetitive.

The fact remains that getting the ship isn't a grind, especially when compared to grinds in other games.  It's actually pretty easy.  The "grind" is exaggerated.

That some players would do it with 6 different characters demonstrates that's it's not that hard, and that the goal is worth acheiving.

Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.

  ShardWarrior

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/18/11
Posts: 296

12/10/12 10:47:36 AM#24

 


 

Originally posted by Rohn

Doing anything in any MMO with 6 different characters is going to be repetitive.  Good lord.   Doing the same story content six different times would also get repetitive.


 

<facepalm>....


Story content where there are numerous places to go, things to do and NPCs to talk to is preferable to running a silly, childish and lazily developed recycled content race.

 


The fact remains that getting the ship isn't a grind, especially when compared to grinds in other games.  It's actually pretty easy.  The "grind" is exaggerated.

 


The BOREDOM and TEDIOUSNESS are not exaggerated. Nice try though. :)

 


That some players would do it with 6 different characters demonstrates that's it's not that hard, and that the goal is worth acheiving.
 

 


More likely it demonstrates stupidity. Again, some people will ask for "more please! more!" from whatever scraps they are tossed.

 

 

Still waiting on you to find that post. :)

  Karahandras

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/08
Posts: 1687

All it takes for evil to succeed is for the good to stand by and do nothing

12/10/12 10:52:43 AM#25
I'm guessing that the better versions of the breen ship will be available from the c store in a month or so(same as last time).
  Rohn

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/02/08
Posts: 3762

 
OP  12/10/12 11:21:47 AM#26
Originally posted by ShardWarrior

 


 

Originally posted by Rohn

Doing anything in any MMO with 6 different characters is going to be repetitive.  Good lord.   Doing the same story content six different times would also get repetitive.


 

....


Story content where there are numerous places to go, things to do and NPCs to talk to is preferable to running a silly, childish and lazily developed recycled content race.

 

Going to the same places, doing the same things, talking to the same NPCs.  Story, done six different times, is just as tedious and repetitive as anything else.

Getting the ship is actually pretty easy.  About an hour total time for a single character.  Not really a "grind".

Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.

  ShardWarrior

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/18/11
Posts: 296

12/10/12 11:52:41 AM#27


Originally posted by Rohn

Going to the same places, doing the same things, talking to the same NPCs.  Story, done six different times, is just as tedious and repetitive as anything else.



Actually, no it isn't. Have you played any of the FE's at all?



Getting the ship is actually pretty easy.
 


No one said otherwise. People have said it is tedious, repetitive, boring and silly, which happens to be true. Nice try though. :)

  ShardWarrior

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/18/11
Posts: 296

12/10/12 11:54:37 AM#28
Originally posted by Karahandras
I'm guessing that the better versions of the breen ship will be available from the c store in a month or so(same as last time).

 

I am not sure.  I would bet it will be in a Breen Lockbox though.  Cryptic/PWE will make way more money on it being in a lockbox vs. just adding the ship to the C-Store.  Why charge 1,000+ ZEN for a ship when they can sucker people into spending 10,000 ZEN (ormore) on lockboxes for the chance to get the ship?

  Amana

MMORPG.COM Staff

Joined: 1/03/11
Posts: 2514

12/10/12 12:07:27 PM#29
Guys, can we keep this thread on the topic of the Winter Event. If you want to go on in detail about other features, start a new thread.

To give feedback on moderation, contact community@mmorpg.com

  FrodoFragins

Elite Member

Joined: 4/29/10
Posts: 2954

12/10/12 12:14:21 PM#30
There is no winter in Space-ace-ace-ace.
  D_TOX

Novice Member

Joined: 11/20/07
Posts: 282

12/10/12 12:17:18 PM#31
Originally posted by Rohn
Originally posted by ShardWarrior
Originally posted by Rohn

As with most games, STO will be having a Winter seasonal event againt this year.  It builds on the Q inspired event of last year.

http://sto.perfectworld.com/news/?p=772651

Some of the details of the event, like the snowman threat, and "The Fast And the Flurrious" race, are identified here:

http://sto.perfectworld.com/news/?p=774311

The rewards for the event can be found here: http://sto.perfectworld.com/news/?p=775821

Some pretty cool stuff in there.

Running the same content for 25 days to get a ship if you want it.... nice.  Glad to see Cryptic/PWE doing something to lessen the already enormous grind in the game.  

 

Oh wait...

 

Yes, it would be far better if everything was gained almost instantly.  Instant gratification has been such a successful concept as it regards MMO design.

Oh, wait....

I've seen people complain about STO when things came "too fast", and people complain when things take "too long".  It's impossible to please everyone, though there are those that are going to complain no matter what they do, which is just dishonest.

But yes, it's a horrible thing to have people actually have to play the game to earn the new ship.  Just horrible.  Of course, if they had just put it in the C-Store, people would have bitched about "greed", right?

Couldn't agree more Rohn. I am sick of gamers WHINING that they have to work for something in an MMO. MMO's aren't instant gratification plug and play games for idiots, they require dedication and reward you for it. However, this is not true for 90% of theme-parks released in the last decade, designed to cater to the 'i want it now' and 'its not fair' crowd, hence why we are stuck with such a monumental amount of failures and flops. 

  Po_gg

Elite Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 2672

12/10/12 12:39:28 PM#32
Originally posted by FrodoFragins
There is no winter in Space-ace-ace-ace.

True, but it's Q we're talking here and we all saw his sick mind can achieve anything :)

 

I'm somewhat with ShardWarrior (although I only have 3 captains), the race is quite boring. I sometimes do it during the snowman event to put some fun into it. And if I think about that I have to do it 3x20 times... I think I'll pass on the ship.

D_Tox, couldn't disagree more, they have to work for something in an MMO   Nope, mmo's are for fun and not for a second work. Or at least in my case. For me even grind is meaning the repetitve & boring stuff, if it's repetitve but fun then I'll do it with pleasure. I like to level alts, max the crafting, etc. In this wonderland I love the snowman event for example, I already have a few jackets but I still go back every 30 minutes to kick the Overlord's snowy butt :)

Yeah, the race is only 2 minutes. But it's a boring 2 minutes, which in time becomes a chore. Some people like to do dull work in their playtime, some don't. I think ShardWarrior has every right to find it a grind.

 

Edit: just for the "they require dedication" since lately we were discussed it irl. Those days are gone. In the early age, before wow / during the first few years of wow, with only a handful games on the market and a smaller crowd, dedication was so common, it was almost expected. Even alts were only mules or accepted if the main was fully complete, geared, etc. Now, with a much larger playerbase and a market stuffed with games, dedication is obsolete. Just look at the success of f2p's, the whole model is based on 'you can come and go any time, and what you buy from the store is yours if you come by next time' (opposing the sub model's pay or leave attitude) Nowadays the majority of players don't want to play only 1 game for years. The Fastest on Ice race is reflecting on this too, they don't say subscribe for a month, they only say log in every day for a few minutes. Just as someone posted in a thread here, today for the companies the person who plays 30 min every day is more valuable than the person who's playing every weekend 2x10 hours. Wow it's a long edit :)

  ShardWarrior

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/18/11
Posts: 296

12/10/12 1:10:39 PM#33


Originally posted by Po_gg

I'm somewhat with ShardWarrior (although I only have 3 captains), the race is quite boring. I sometimes do it during the snowman event to put some fun into it. And if I think about that I have to do it 3x20 times... I think I'll pass on the ship.


I passed on it too. The Breen ship is ok, but nothing so special to get me to run the race 25 times on even 1 character.



... if it's repetitve but fun then I'll do it with pleasure. Yeah, the race is only 2 minutes. But it's a boring 2 minutes, which in time becomes a chore. Some people like to do dull work in their playtime, some don't.
 


This is the point I have been trying to get across about the Winter Event. It is too repetitive and thereby boring. Were they to introduce something more engaging, then it would be better IMO. If anything, the folks here claiming "it isn't a grind" are the ones looking for something for nothing.


And for those talking about the "instant gratification"... I would love for anyone to find a post I made where I asked for an item for free. I haven't. What I have been saying is the Winter Event while nice, adds nothing yet another boring, repetitive task to a game already filled with them.


  D_TOX

Novice Member

Joined: 11/20/07
Posts: 282

12/10/12 1:22:54 PM#34
Originally posted by ShardWarrior

 


 

Originally posted by Po_gg

I'm somewhat with ShardWarrior (although I only have 3 captains), the race is quite boring. I sometimes do it during the snowman event to put some fun into it. And if I think about that I have to do it 3x20 times... I think I'll pass on the ship.


 

I passed on it too. The Breen ship is ok, but nothing so special to get me to run the race 25 times on even 1 character.

 


... if it's repetitve but fun then I'll do it with pleasure. Yeah, the race is only 2 minutes. But it's a boring 2 minutes, which in time becomes a chore. Some people like to do dull work in their playtime, some don't.
 

 


This is the point I have been trying to get across about the Winter Event. It is too repetitive and thereby boring. Were they to introduce something more engaging, then it would be better IMO. If anything, the folks here claiming "it isn't a grind" are the ones looking for something for nothing.


And for those talking about the "instant gratification"... I would love for anyone to find a post I made where I asked for an item for free. I haven't. What I have been saying is the Winter Event while nice, adds nothing yet another boring, repetitive task to a game already filled with them.

 

In that case, its a phucking winter event. What the hell were you expecting? It's for fun and frolics. Not a goddamn expansion that you paid for. 

  ShardWarrior

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/18/11
Posts: 296

12/10/12 1:34:32 PM#35


Originally posted by D_TOX

In that case, its a phucking winter event. What the hell were you expecting? It's for fun and frolics. Not a goddamn expansion that you paid for. 


 


Fair enough. However, do you even play STO? If so, notice any similarities between Season 7's "content" and the Winter Event?

I will give you a hint... "repetition"... ;)

  Po_gg

Elite Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 2672

12/10/12 2:55:31 PM#36
... and epohh's :)
  Karahandras

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/08
Posts: 1687

All it takes for evil to succeed is for the good to stand by and do nothing

12/10/12 4:30:33 PM#37
Originally posted by ShardWarrior
Originally posted by Karahandras
I'm guessing that the better versions of the breen ship will be available from the c store in a month or so(same as last time).

 

I am not sure.  I would bet it will be in a Breen Lockbox though.  Cryptic/PWE will make way more money on it being in a lockbox vs. just adding the ship to the C-Store.  Why charge 1,000+ ZEN for a ship when they can sucker people into spending 10,000 ZEN (ormore) on lockboxes for the chance to get the ship?

True.

  Karahandras

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/08
Posts: 1687

All it takes for evil to succeed is for the good to stand by and do nothing

12/11/12 6:07:09 PM#38
Originally posted by ShardWarrior

 


 

Originally posted by Po_gg

I'm somewhat with ShardWarrior (although I only have 3 captains), the race is quite boring. I sometimes do it during the snowman event to put some fun into it. And if I think about that I have to do it 3x20 times... I think I'll pass on the ship.


 

I passed on it too. The Breen ship is ok, but nothing so special to get me to run the race 25 times on even 1 character.

 


... if it's repetitve but fun then I'll do it with pleasure. Yeah, the race is only 2 minutes. But it's a boring 2 minutes, which in time becomes a chore. Some people like to do dull work in their playtime, some don't.
 

 


This is the point I have been trying to get across about the Winter Event. It is too repetitive and thereby boring. Were they to introduce something more engaging, then it would be better IMO. If anything, the folks here claiming "it isn't a grind" are the ones looking for something for nothing.


And for those talking about the "instant gratification"... I would love for anyone to find a post I made where I asked for an item for free. I haven't. What I have been saying is the Winter Event while nice, adds nothing yet another boring, repetitive task to a game already filled with them.

 

For those interested you have to run the race for 25 days for the ship.  You need 1000 pics at 40pics per win(cooldown 20 hours).  Or you can collect lobi crystals from lockboxes.

edited for mistakes

  Rohn

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/02/08
Posts: 3762

 
OP  12/12/12 7:25:26 PM#39
Originally posted by ShardWarrior

 


 

Originally posted by D_TOX

In that case, its a phucking winter event. What the hell were you expecting? It's for fun and frolics. Not a goddamn expansion that you paid for. 


 

 


Fair enough. However, do you even play STO? If so, notice any similarities between Season 7's "content" and the Winter Event?

I will give you a hint... "repetition"... ;)

 

Here's another hint - pretty much every MMO revolves around repetition.  As long as what's being repeated is meaningful to players within the context of the game, it's what keeps people coming back, not "story".

In fact, a focus on "story" is routinely seen as a failure in MMOs recently.  It's never been a strong point.  Most story elements in MMOs has been nothing more than a simplistic rationale for the bland quest objectives found throughout the genre.

Whether it's a gear treadmill, PvP rank grind, faction/reputation grind, asteroid mining, crafting, or seasonal activities in this case, repetitive long term systems are usually what keep people playing, not stories.

One person in my fleet almost has all the jackets from this seasonal event.  Does it have meaning?  It does to that person, and quite a few others.

It's just a seasonal event, nothing to get too worked up over.

Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.

  ShardWarrior

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/18/11
Posts: 296

12/13/12 7:29:15 AM#40

[quote]

Originally posted by Rohn

Here's another hint - pretty much every MMO revolves around repetition.  As long as what's being repeated is meaningful to players within the context of the game, it's what keeps people coming back, not "story".  

Not true. Would love for you to provide links to actual evidence of this.



In fact, a focus on "story" is routinely seen as a failure in MMOs recently.
 


Again, not true. Do you ever read posts made in the forums for games like CO and DCUO? Go read them. What are players asking for? STORY CONTENT.    


It's never been a strong point.
   

Right, so folks making posts like this are just plain wrong.


Originally posted by Crazy_Stick

I had fun playing STO for the story missions but they have been abandoned in favor of grind content. The combat was decent fun for me both in space and on the ground but it’s best in quick doses. The grind makes it a chore after a time.


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