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Star Trek Online Interviews: Jack Emmert Talks Klingons
Cryptic COO Jack Emmert gave us the scoop on what exactly this PvP-centric Klingon faction would be all about, including an exclusive reveal of the races available within that faction.
By Dana Massey on December 17, 2009
Cryptic surprised and, let’s be honest, upset a lot of fans this week when they announced that the eagerly anticipated Klingon faction would be PvP-centric for launch. We called up Cryptic Studios COO Jack Emmert to get the scoop on what they’re really all about, clear up some misconceptions about them, and find out why they made this choice.
“With any video game there are always hard choices to make,” said Emmert by phone as he walked around their Los Gatos, California office complex. “It’s just a simple matter of you have a certain amount of time and you have a certain size team and you have to make decision about how you’d make the best product at launch.”
The decision was thus made to make sure that the Klingon faction was a big part of launch. He admitted that there was no way with an IP as big as Star Trek that they could do everything everyone, himself included, wanted. He lamented the lack of Romulan and Cardassian factions specifically as things he’d have loved to have included given unlimited time and money.
For them, the biggest hurdle was fitting both away mission and space content into the game. Almost no MMORPG has ever launched with both, he pointed out (the only exception being Pirates of the Burning Sea) and it’s an absolutely massive undertaking.
“My own philosophy with MMORPGs is that if you don’t have it at launch, you might as well not bother having it,” he said, citing City of Heroes as an example of this.
;)
Two of the biggest complaints people had is that it launched without PvP and without crafting, yet when they added those two elements later on they saw only negligible subscription growth. The fact is, people make their buying decisions early and he felt it was important to have Klingons in the game, even if they were not as deep as everyone would like, from day one.
“If I sit back and wait for it to be perfect, frankly people aren’t going to wait around for it,” he added.
To those who are disappointed, he promised them that what is there at launch is only the basis for more to come.
“Take a look at the history of Cryptic Studios, take a look at how much stuff we put out after we launch a game,” he said in reference to their City of Heroes franchise and more recently Champions Online.
One of their philosophies, a refrain I’ve also heard from Bill Roper many times, is that they really want to be more reactive to their player base. While admitting past faults, Emmert underlined this:
“One of the lessons I’ve learned over the years is not to be too rigid as a designer, always try to keep a very open mind, because the players will tell you what they want,” he told us. “In the past I got tunnel vision in what I wanted, maybe I was right, maybe I wasn’t, but sometimes the players are right too and I’d rather go with their right than my right.”
So, what will the Klingon faction really be? Emmert insists that it is a full fledged faction within the game and not just a glorified version of Lord of the Rings Online’s Monster Play. They have a full set of skills, their own bridge officers, their own ships, their own territory, their own advancement and their own missions.
;)
Part of this belief has come from the fact that Klingons have to be unlocked. When you buy the game, you must complete the first sector of Federation content, at which point the ability to create someone in the Klingon faction is unlocked. This is a global unlock and must only be done once.
“We want players to focus on a particular aspect of gameplay and kind of learn the basics of space and ground combat before entering into PvP,” he said. The Federation content is already a lot to take in and while much of the Klingon content is different, the basic mechanics of ground and space remain the same. He added, only half joking, that they only needed to do one tutorial this way.
Having played the Beta, this amount of content they’re asking players to complete is trivial. It shouldn’t take more than a couple of hours.
Once unlocked, the Klingon faction has a full slate of races, just like their own Federation counterparts. Emmert gave us an exclusive first peek at what they are. Players can choose between Klingon, Gorn, Orion, Lethean, Nausicaan, and of course the custom alien option.
Bridge officers will be roughly the same, with a few surprises. Specifically, there will be a Borg officer. I immediately assumed “Seven of Nine,” but Emmert said no, that this one will be something different. What that is, we will have to wait and see.
These groups have all the same abilities and ranks to progress through as the Federation, the difference is that the bulk of the content will be directed at PvP, although perhaps not quite as exclusive as some thought.
“It’s not just limited to PvP, but it’s just not the same depth of PvE content as the Federation,” he explained. There will still be encounters in the Sector Space. These are visible on the map, and analogous to the random encounters people find in older RPGs like Baldur’s Gate as they travel to place to place (although being a real time game, you can also avoid them by simply flying around). They provide an outlet for some PvE, which includes a nice way to get some interesting loot.
The issue is in the second quotation, "It’s just a simple matter of you have a certain amount of time ....."
How many companies do we see that have undesirable time constraints put on game projects. Whoever is in change needs to be more flexible with the time line so we would see idea's come reality at release and not half attempts with an add on / update later on.
You can do anything you want even with a Trek IP within reason, if time is the main thing against you - wise up and change it across the industry. Even admission is there. So why not take the right course of action to make the most popular adjustments for launch and delay a bit longer. It is often community feedback that has been saying the same thing for a while. A few month push back won't ruin a launch. Trek fans have been waiting long enough for something right and I was first looking for an ST mmo back in 1999 and all this time later the most ideal PVP situation is not realised for launch fruition.
I can live with it, even the 10v10 limit, but I would like to see a focus here throughout the summer/autumn next year.
hmmmmmmmm
romulans would have been my race of choice
what could have been
but who knows - - - one day (i'll wait on this game 'til then)
Great article. Answered a bunch of questions.
Need pictures of the ships!
I like what I read. Thanks for the article Dana.
I lowered my expectations, then was pleasantly surprised by what Emmrt had to say. I'm stoked!
Thank you for that Dana! It was an interesting read.
Do you have any possibility to ask follow-up questions? I'm particularly curious about the borg officer, especially since you said you assumed "it" would be like seven-of-nine but isn't. Does that mean this one is not obtained via pre-ordering, since the pre-order one does look like seven-of-nine, and cannot be customised to look any different?
I'm actually pretty cool with this. I'm less comfortable that this is due to a lack of time rather than a design choice, but I think it sort of works with Klingons. I do find it pretty funny though that the type of MMO Gamer who dresses like a Klingon at conventions, and can speak Klingon fluently is also the least likely to enjoy PvP. I have no trouble seeing the Klingon race dominated by trash-talking 11-15 year olds while the truely obsessive Klingon fans are stuck RPing a Klingon or half-Klingon Starfleet Captain(which I assume is possible).
Of course I wished they waited and added more but budget is always a problem when you're trying to build something. That being said I applaud Jack Emmert for coming clean in the interview and airing out his side of the story to the community, that goes a long way in making me not despise the company for their actions.
Will I buy it on release? No, MMO's require such an investment anymore it's not worth jumping in blindly. Honestly after Conan and WAR it will take some amazing word of mouth, not just good reviews, to get me to come on board.
I wonder if was Atari or Cryptic that is pushing the dev team for this. Well, can't say I didn't expect it. They were working on two big games at the same time - Champions and STO. I wondered how they could do both at the same time.
Listening to that podcast I get the feeling they still have a ways to go. They expect this to launch with polish in early 2010?
I've been a fan of Eve for some time. I checked out STO as a lark a month and a half ago. I was fully expecting to scoff at it and go back to Eve. That being said, everything I've seen about STO has me stoked for launch. After I saw the leaked beta footage I was hooked. This article is just one more reinforcement that it will be good to "go where no man has gone before!"
So, according to the above... The "neutral zone" is same with the War Zone and even that will be made up of 10 vs 10 instances?
Perhaps the neutral zone is a Space Sector Map with all the instanced War Zones, arenas and scenarios inside.
Initially I was trepidatious about this change, however, now I realize that it really isn't simply a hollow shell of a faction as I'd thought. The fact that they've molded it into a mostly pvp faction does two good things. Firstly it offers a different type of gameplay instead of just having a mirror of the federation gameplay. Secondly, it allows them to fully flesh out another part of the gameplay (pvp) instead of it just being like pve except against players.
One of the things I thought was coolest about WoW was that the horde and the alliance sides were two different sides. Now with everything being basically cross-polinated, horde and alliance are simply just mirrors of eachother with different skins. It appears with STO, the Feds and the Klings will actually be two different gameplay styles (for the most part), something no game that I know has ever really done. This could turn out quite awesome.
Also, we should remember that while Cryptic is in charge of making the game, they obviously have a lot of people (Atari and such) to answer to with respect to timing and promotion and the like. It's quite possible that Cryptic could have created the "perfect" ST MMO, but it might have also taken another 3 years, by which point the investors may have pulled out or whatever. I would much rather have a pretty good game now over a perfect game in 3+ years.
Klingons cannot be called a full fledged faction because everything released to date says they don't have episodic content. If faction B has all the content faction A does except X, it's not a full faction within that game.
“When you go into that system it will spawn a PvP arena map and then you fight it out,” Emmert explained.
All PvP in Star Trek Online, initially, will take place in instances. This, for one, eliminates the problems of population imbalance, which could really get out of control in a single shard game."
WRONG. Wrong wrong wrong wrong WRONG!.
Mr Emmert, get yourself a PotBS trial account and play French or Spanish. Go to an instanced Port Battle.
Then tell me again how instances eliminate the problems of population imbalance?
The fact is that you need to have a sufficient number of players willing to play the Klingons in the first place to make this work.
And you have effectively put paid to that by having a Klingon side that is effectively only a "monster" race.
Sure, there will be a few die hards who will play Klingon, Klingon and nothing but... but for the most part people will play Klingon once. They will go to a PvP match, in a ship they are not 100% familiar with (since they have been flying a Fed ship) and get PWNED. And for most, that will be the end of the story.
Then they will try PvP in their Fed Ship - and either (depending on how you have designed the game)
go into an instance vs an outnumbered Klingon force (of most likely first time klingons) which they will LOLPWN!
OR
go into a queue to fight the only 10 dedicated Klingon players online and will be left staring at a "You are 1029 of 3217 in the queue... estimated wait 2hrs 43mins..." screen. Driving still more away from PvP.
Talk to some other developers - like FLS. Listen to what they say you clown.
I agree with the first of what Avery said. Who exactly is in charge of these of managing the clock on these products. They ALL seem to not have enough time to put in the core features they promised in the manner they promised.
I mean jeeze! Are the shareholders and CEOs and publishers really low balling every company on the time it takes to do what they list in the initial game design document as some of this site's guest writers suggest? Or are the teams universally that crappy at time management? Or does the amount of time spent creating little bits and pieces to show at shows taking away from necessary productivity?
As for whether or not to include the Klingons in this half-manner, I dunno. Emmert is right and it is by know means something that he has miraculously shed light on in the fact of if you don't have it in at launch what makes you think I'm going to buy your game 6 months later when you've put it in then? Sure, some people may go for it, but others like myself will always see it as a compromise to get more box sales when it wasn't important enough in the overall vision of your game that it had to be included at launch.
There were a number of us kicking and screaming for Funcom to re-think their stance on having a robust combat system (when I say robust I qualify it with SWG or UO) in AoC. Some months after launch, and after most of us had quit the game, they announce that they are looking at modifying the system, presumably to have more depth. Think I'd go back to it now? Nope.
Some people will moan that "you're only cheating yourself blah blah...". Well, no, not really. I can live without MMOs thankfully. And after (uh-oh, here it comes again, "Don't look Ethel!!" but it was too late...) my experience with the whole SOE and NGE business, I know for a fact that what I want isn't honestly top priority on any of the companies list. That known, I also know that I don't owe ANY of them any amount of loyalty what-so-ever.
I don't "owe" them to try their game out 6 months to a year after launch when they are hurting for subscribers and finally decide to add in systems that I enjoy in hopes of snagging me up. No. If I and my gameplay weren't important enough to them to incorporate the things I like from the start, then I don't play their game. Ever. They made a business decision to not target me with the game, which is cool. In turn, they can't get upset if their decision doesn't bring them in the numbers they want, so they change the game (losing some subs) to target me but I decline their invitation.
The only thing I owe an MMO company is to have the correct credit card number attached to my account and to not overdraw said card so that they get paid once a month. Any loyalty that is garnered is done so from that company having all the gameplay mechanics/systems in game at launch (understanding they may need more tweaking) that I enjoy at a level of depth I enjoy and continuing to build on a fun an enjoyable experience for me using those mechanics/systems. Turbine had loyalty from me until they did what they did to DDO and then chose to release LOTRO and forgo doing anything ever again with Asheron's Call.
Good interview but I gotta agree with the above. I'm still hopeful here but it sounds like they are waiting to make some serious choices as in:
Loot will come about in three core ways: PvE encounters, rewards for PvP encounters (the game tells you the reward for, say, an Arena and you can win it) and also loot within PvP combat. They are not sure on the exact mechanic yet, Beta will determine this, but there will be loot for people to get. For example, it is possible that when you destroy another player ship it will drop something, even though the player them self didn’t actually lose anything.
They've got roughly two months to launch and are waiting for beta to possibly implement this? At this point I'd think they'd be thinking polish before all else especially with such a short closed beta. I really appreciate the player driven changes but they are too short on time to be focusing on anything besides getting this thing out the door in decent shape, quit waiting and make a call, just like they did with the Klingons. If I pick this up I'll still be going Kilngon, when I can, but this game is quickly falling into the WAR category: I might enjoy it in a year or so when they add a few things they couldn't get to at launch. But we'll see what beta brings...
Exactly.
I was very upset two days ago. I admit I was overboard, but I was upset by what I had been reading about not having Klingons as a starter race. That being said. This article brings to light some great information. I still want to see more PVE content for Klingons, BUT..that will come with time and expansions. I must be patient, and wait for the good things to come. STO looks like a very good game, and I believe will be a good game at launch. I will still not be there on that special day, but will wait to see how bugs are fixed, and how the community ideas are used.
Agreed! I'm so happy with what Emmert said, I cancelled my pre-order!
I feel better that Jack came clean for why this is happening. I have faith in Cryptic. I also like that he said that they'll listen to the player base for direction...
Overall I am not as upset as I thought I would be. The mere fact that this is a Star Trek game and an mmo leads us to unlimited possibillites over time. This can become one awesome game over the next couple years and well into the future.
I think it is worth trying. I am disappointed that Klingons will not have more PvE content. I am just hoping that Klingon PvP doesn't become a gank-fest. I'll just have to reserve my opinion until I actually see it.
QAPLA!!!
I could not agree more!
I plan on playing a toon for both factions. Even though I don't normally enjoy PvP. This is different; it's an attitude thing. :)
Just like that scene from the movie when the Klingon Commander (Jim from Taxi :)) orders his men to board the Enterprise and his first reminds him that they are outnumbered.
WE ARE KLINGONS!!!!
I hope I get some actual Klingons to play with when I get there. Sheesh.
And for those who say that they don't want to PvP all the time, well neither do I! Hence my Federation counterpart.
While I don't disagree that game companies should be allowed all the time they need to get a game just 'right' I'm sad to say that the real world doesn't work that way. The timetables are really set by the investors and and the IP holder so contracts are signed agreeing to this before the developer see's one shiny dime of investor money or the IP in question. Sometimes in extreme cases they can get the investors to give them another month or two but what some people are asking for(6 months to a year delay) where STO is concerned is just not feasible and just won't happen. Cryptic had their timetable set for them when they got the IP license from CBS and the funding for the game from investors. They are under contract to meet that deadline. It sucks, yes but it is the reality of it all. In a perfect world developers would have all the time and money they need to make perfect games but we don't live in that world now do we?
As for the article it was very enlightening and explains a lot, not only about the decisions they have made but why they were made as well. Sure, I too wanted the Klingons to be a faction that was playable from the start but perhaps that will come in time. I will still play and reserve my judgment of the game until I've had that chance.
Bren
im glad lots of you out there do love the federation, good for you. dam carebears j/k. i am sad that romulans and cardassians will end up being 6months to a year down the road as expansion material, but we have to accept the fact that in todays mmo market the people paying for the game developement demand product out making money back asap. has cryptic made some stinky shit in the past? god knows they have, but as long as i can play my klingon and indescriminantly blow shit up im a very happy little pyromaniac! Q'Plau, dam the torpedoes RAMMING SPEED!!!!!!!!
Yeah, so support that Developer with your money in the mean time because all the stuff they promise will happen 'soon'(TM)?
...
Look, seriously, good on you if you like what is on offer, now, at release.
But my advice would be don't buy on promises of what the game could be, could become or planned additions / features.
When you buy a game you get what is in the box. Anything else, any promises, any plans are just 'potential'.
Every MMO ever has 'potential'.
But very few ever realise that potential.
And gamers that throw money at these Developers don't send the message "we support what you are trying to do..."
They send the message "We are prepared to pay for the crap you just served up."
Now you're talking! I hope my Klingon toon meets yours.
Perhaps it IS a good day to die!!!
Mwhahahaha!!!!!
While I don't disagree that game companies should be allowed all the time they need to get a game just 'right' I'm sad to say that the real world doesn't work that way. The timetables are really set by the investors and and the IP holder so contracts are signed agreeing to this before the developer see's one shiny dime of investor money or the IP in question. Sometimes in extreme cases they can get the investors to give them another month or two but what some people are asking for(6 months to a year delay) where STO is concerned is just not feasible and just won't happen. Cryptic had their timetable set for them when they got the IP license from CBS and the funding for the game from investors. They are under contract to meet that deadline. It sucks, yes but it is the reality of it all. In a perfect world developers would have all the time and money they need to make perfect games but we don't live in that world now do we?
As for the article it was very enlightening and explains a lot, not only about the decisions they have made but why they were made as well. Sure, I too wanted the Klingons to be a faction that was playable from the start but perhaps that will come in time. I will still play and reserve my judgment of the game until I've had that chance.
Bren
Of course your points are very valid and spot on, I guess better project management to allow for the talent and ideas to fully come through better could be worked upon. ST was an IP jumped on by Cryptic under the impression a lot of the ground work has been accomplished through engine maturity. Game mechanics in space and on the ground I think look good. I would of liked to see Cryptic follow through more on the ideas that could of been for release rather than down the road. Not to take anything away from what the team has accomplished so far but to somehow give them more freedom, more negiotating with investers and a better chance to incorporate those things many feel a little disappointed about not being their to start with.
Hey I understand especially with the same thing happening with AoC. Sometimes features just don't make it to launch. But ST:O has had a relatively short development time has it not?
You dare be well-mannered and post to a Klingon topic??
WE ARE AT WAR!!!!
GAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
;)
Earlier today i expressed my disappointment at not being able to play Klingons from the start. It is a bit of a let down, but after thinking about the bigger picture and not having a quality mmo scifi game since leaving SOE's SWG car wreck over 3 years ago, I have been left in the duldrums of WoW, GW, and Lotro. This has softened my brain. STO which I have yet to play could be an excellent break from the magic based mmo's that i have played out. I tried EVE online too much clicky clicky and no real ship driving, if game play is like EVE I will not like it one bit. I want to drive the truck and wreck it if i need. I say, BRING IT!!! Klingons or no mmo's need a real scifi game out there and face it Star Trek is the science fiction many of us have been waiting for most of our lives. "Make it so!"
QFE
Though I've never played AC, I've thrown enough money at and played enough games that have 'potential' that they never meet to do it again. In this economy, money is tighter than before and if you aren't getting what you want out of a game NOW, then what are you paying for? I'd rather work and save up for the game I REALLY want that offers what I want to play, then pay some company to 'maybe sometime in the future if we have time and the resources' to get what I want.
I wanted to play Klingon. I don't mind PvP, but I DO mind having it as my MAIN avenue for character advancement, with my 'other' way being a much less developed and poorer quality PvE option. Though I do think it is neat to not have the Klingon side basically being the Federation side with a different face. STill.. Klingon culture and so on was one of the best developed alien races (both literally -IN- ST movies/shows and -OUT- of ST in LARPs, books and language development), and it is a shame that that will not be utilized in STO.
Thanks Dana for staying on top of the thing we want to know the most about.
I've been burned on the promises of what will come from mmo devs to go that route anymore. Unless the two sides play radically different, I don't see the benefit of playing klingon. First of all you can custom create a klingon in a star fleet uniform, play all the quests and still get all the save pvp the klingons get. So why play a klingon at all?
Let's not forget they haven't beta tested a single thing regarding klingon content, to me that just screams cut and paste skills.
Obviously I'll have to see what makes the two sides different but lets be real: they ran out of time how different will the sides be? Doesnt the fact you can make a custom anything guarantee them to be the same generic shells of each other balance wise?
I just don't feel like they've taken the care this IP deserves, they've run out of time by their own admission, I just wish games could be more like wow blizzard or gta when the devs flat out say, "it done when it's done."
Nevertheless I'll be anxiously waiting for every scrap of info.
Sounds good, I am watching STO with slightly more interest as it gets closer to launch.
My first choice of race would be Borg, points to the my color is White on bottom :P
My second choice would be Cardassian.
Looks like I would be stuck as Federation or Klingon for awhile but if the game is fun and they ever add Cardassians I would be quite happppppppppy!
This was an informative article. I think by adding the Klingons they have added greater appeal to a wider audience. Some people like to play the bad guys, and having that pvp component adds another dimension of excitement and depth that would otherwise not be present.
I wasn't planning on playing the Klingon side before this article, but after reading this piece I admit I am intrigued.
Well, I guess Player Crews are really out then...by if one goes by Emmerts philosophy anyway. So much for "we'll add it if there's demand"
I were really looking forward to playing klingons... <.< But now? Heck, if I want monsterplay I'll go LotRO..
Also, it seems that what little PvE there is it's very much in the background and far far from the primary way of progression for Klingons, so by chosing this route they bascily alienate the klingon PvE players.
Good job! Good bye!
Did the author of the article even read the ship list for the Klingon "faction?" There most definitely is a lot of overlap. Instead of the huge number of different ship classes offered to the Federation side, the Klingons get repurposed ships for ever single tier. If I'm flying a "Bird of Prey" at tier 1, why the heck would I want to fly a "Bird of Prey Mark 3" at tier three? The only unique ship Cryptic actually designed for the Klingons is the carrier. Boy, can't wait to have a "Battle Cruiser Mark 2!"
All I'm getting out of this interview is excuses and spin from "Hit the Road Jack" Emmert. They put Klingons in in an unfinished state because "...if you don’t have it at launch, you might as well not bother having it.” Then why isn't the game being delayed so they can finish such a vital component that it has to be in at launch? Is it really helping them to stick to this insane two year development window? The more I see of this game, the less finished it looks.
"Two of the biggest complaints people had is that it launched without PvP and without crafting, yet when they added those two elements later on they saw only negligible subscription growth." Really? And this didn't have anything to do with an inept marketing team, Cryptic pairing resources to develop CoH to the bone, or bad design decisions?
I honestly can't believe that Emmert learned his lesson at all since they are rushing this game and essentially releasing it unfinished. Won't people play this game in it's unfinished state and then spread bad press? Won't people see reviews and hype and choose not to buy an unfinished game? Why has the standard excuse from Cryptic been "it won't be in at launch, but it will be in later free patches!" to so many of the things people are asking for in a Star Trek MMO? I thought they learned their lesson and "...if you don’t have it at launch, you might as well not bother having it.”
“One of the lessons I’ve learned over the years is not to be too rigid as a designer, always try to keep a very open mind, because the players will tell you what they want."
Here's a little MMO history for those who are unaware. Back when Cryptic was still running City of Heroes, Emmert became reviled by that community because he constantly said "no, that will never be in the game, it doesn't fit my vision of the game." Even though the CoH community loves that game and loves their devs, they hated Jack because he was incredibly inflexible and refused to do what didn't fit his "vision" of that game. One example of this is the Flashback system. Players wanted a way to go back and complete missions and arcs their characters had out-levelled. Emmert absolutely refused to even consider such a system and it became a huge bone of contention between him and the CoH community. After Cryptic sold CoH to NCSoft, the very first thing they did was put in such an oft requested system. After that the community was glad and completely sold of the sale of CoH.
Has Jack really learned his lesson? Will he really listen to the community and not be so completely inflexible? Considering what Emmert has said in this article and all the huge contradictions he's made, I don't believe it for an instant.
"Players can choose between Klingon, Gorn, Orion, Lethean, Nausicaan" I have no complaints here. These are overall good races for the Klingon faction. Actually, I would go one further and say that Cryptic should add the Miradorns to the Klingon faction as well (memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Miradorn.)
Overall, the only information I see coming out of Cryptic is that this game is rushed, this game won't be finished, this game will be a big PASS.
"Jim from Taxi?" I'm pretty sure that Klingon was Dr. Emmet Brown.
One could argue that these systems were not popular because they truly weren't desired. Some early COH fans were drawn to the game, in part, because it didn't have pvp or crafting. No loot. No economy soon to be twisted into an inflated abomination. Crafting really has little to no place in the theme, anyway - while one might try to bring up characters like Iron Man and such... Iron Man is not about spending all day in his lab building a zillion repulsor gauntlets to skill up. :)
Of course, the combination of elements of not really being desired by the player majority and bad design are pretty much all the nails the coffin needs. PvPers are a minority (though they refuse to accept it). A very vocal one, but a minority all the same (representation on forums seems to skew perceptions). The same can be said for dedicated crafters.
Don't be silly. It was John Bigboote
That's "Bigbootay!"
All game developers need to learn The Seven P's: Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance.
No project- game or otherwise- has unlimited time or budget. However, proper requirements assessment and definition is essential to performance. Too many times - and I believe Cryptic and STO is an example - nothing more than a rough idea is pitched to an investor, and from this "concept" a budget set and development scheduled. Only later as the details are worked out does it become apparent the scope is too large for allotted resources and disappointment ensues.
Take the time upfront to clearly plan and scope the project and pitch your idea based on solid details of execution. Know exactly what will be in game before allocating resources and before opening your mouth to potential customers. Stop biting off more than you can chew. Stop lowballing investors. Stop disappointing your customers.
It's also clear from this article that Cryptic still has no idea what the Klingon faction will really be all about. This is pure damage control.
So what they are saying is, OK were going to add klingon's in at some point. You just have to comlete al lthe federation stuf first.
So that gives them time, and forces you to unlock a playable race. Leason not learned from EQ2 with froglots.
All this means is omg we F****** up and now were going to have to do it, we cant do it at launch. However if we promise them they are going to get it they still will buy our product.
Any of your folks belive this bunch of bs, its dammage control at best they knew they blew it. I don't want to have to do all the missions in sector 1 or whatever it is to unlock.
Im sorry going to call it like I see it a big fat lie in order to get your money.
I think it is fine that Klingons are mostly about PvP. What I dont think is fine is if the amount of content is small so you will get bored quickly. For example, the instanced PvP matches in Champions Online was fun at start but quickly got repetetive and old since there was no overreaching goal.
If Klingon PvP i just like instanced PvP matches in Champions Online then Cryptic needs to have it as a high priority to expand on the Klingon content because that wont be enough for even a month of gaming. In my opinion what they really need to focus on is to have terrotorial control through PvP where clans/guilds/groups of people can claim a sector of space and gain some benefits from both taking it and holding it.
If that was implemented I think it would give enough content for both Klingon and PvP Federation players for quite a while. Instanced PvP mini games wont be enough, not by a long shot.
When the hell did they add "Proper" to it? 7 P's?!? What the hell? That just screws up the whole damn thing, because there truly is no such thing as a "Proper" plan because you have to remember two things. No plan survives first contact (with the enemy) and Keep it simple stupid.
You can plan for the worst and hope for the best though.
Anyone else want to throw out an adage?
Oh!! Opinions are like a$$holes, everyone hase one and they ALL stink.
Awesome news! on a side-note i hope we can play worf-like charactors in fed.
When the hell did they add "Proper" to it? 7 P's?!? What the hell? That just screws up the whole damn thing, because there truly is no such thing as a "Proper" plan because you have to remember two things. No plan survives first contact (with the enemy) and Keep it simple stupid.
You can plan for the worst and hope for the best though.
Anyone else want to throw out an adage?
Oh!! Opinions are like a$$holes, everyone hase one and they ALL stink.
Hope is not a plan.
Never pet a burning dog.
I wish the Klingon content was more robust at launch, but it doesn't appear to be nearly as bad as some of the people who were freaking out were saying.
I do like the idea of making the Klingons a more PvP-oriented race (if done correctly). Basing the two factions on really differing gameplay, instead of the shallow mirrored gameplay of some other games, should give a very different feel to the factions, and make the enmity between the two feel less contrived.
Yamota is right - a PvP only character will be restricted in content. Don't forget PvP needs other players. What if you can only play during less tan peak hours? What if the Fed players are grinding to end game content? You think Fed players are going to grind PvP scenarios like in WAR?
I understand the idea that Klingons are more militaristic, but at least give them access to Public Mission areas where PvP is there. Those competitive Public Missions were fine by me. Give Klingons "Honor" points (read WAR inlfuence) so they can get upgrades and such.
Good Luck STO. Your die hard fans will take whatever you give them. Hope it is enough to keep the servers up
Yamota is right - a PvP only character will be restricted in content. Don't forget PvP needs other players. What if you can only play during less tan peak hours? What if the Fed players are grinding to end game content? You think Fed players are going to grind PvP scenarios like in WAR?
I understand the idea that Klingons are more militaristic, but at least give them access to Public Mission areas where PvP is there. Those competitive Public Missions were fine by me. Give Klingons "Honor" points (read WAR inlfuence) so they can get upgrades and such.
Good Luck STO. Your die hard fans will take whatever you give them. Hope it is enough to keep the servers up
Don't forget, Klingon vs Klingon PvP is a part of the current plan as well, which should mitigate the problem of Feds not fighting.
Still, they will need to focus on producing more content for the Klingons, which I believe they are admitting in the interview.
Anyone can plan. "Proper" planning means you have contingencies in place so you are not standing around playing pocket pool when your plan disintergrates after contact with the enemy.
If this project had been properly scoped, would this thread exist?
Don't forget, Klingon vs Klingon PvP is a part of the current plan as well, which should mitigate the problem of Feds not fighting.
Still, they will need to focus on producing more content for the Klingons, which I believe they are admitting in the interview.
Hmmm, I smell the potential for guild war mechanics among the Klingons. That way there would be always someone to fight.
Anyone can plan. "Proper" planning means you have contingencies in place so you are not standing around playing pocket pool when your plan disintergrates after contact with the enemy.
If this project had been properly scoped, would this thread exist?
Seems to me they did have a plan originally, which included having Klingons at launch with full episodic content, etc. similar to the Federation. Due to time and budget constraints, which are just part of the real world when developing any sort of product, the original vision for the Klingons was not going to be ready at launch. So at that point, the designers had two choices, either not put Klingons in at all, or find a way to include the Klingons as much as possible. They chose the latter.
In a project of any reasonable complexity, and given the pressures of money, time, fan expectation, etc. all of which are out of a game developer's control in many circumstances, my guess would be it is pretty much impossible at the start of a two year project to have a complete plan, with every contingency covered, that will not change during the development of the product.
Understandable if you personally don't like the compromises they had to make, or how the product is going to be at launch, but because it didn't turn out the way you wanted doesn't necessarily mean they had poor planning...
I'm just trying to picture the meeting going on at Cryptic right now when the call comes in from Activision and Atari.
Atari - "So let me get this straight. We gave you how many millions of our dollars and a can't miss IP and you give us what? You give us a game that is losing subscriptions before it's even launched?"
Cryptic - "Well you see time got tight and ..."
Atari - "Ok, you know what? Time is short. We've only got a month and a half to release. Lets skip the song and dance routine. Lets get to what counts. What are you doing to remedy the situation?"
Cryptic - "Well we're hoping gamers will play anyway and then we'll add the content they're asking for."
Atari - "So you're hoping they'll hang in with the game until you give them the game you said you were going to make with how many millions of our dollars and a can't miss IP?"
Cryptic - "Ummmmm ..."
Atari - "Did you guys screw up this bad on your own or did you have to bring in some consultants to help you make this big a mess of it?"
Cryptic - "Did we mention that we have both space based and away missions in this game?
Atari - "Oi!"
Man this situation is so weird I'd almost accuse them of making it up. Who you've really got to feel for is the people that bought a lifetime subscription to Champions Online to get into Closed Beta for Star Trek Online, only to get hassled about getting into Closed Beta, finally getting into Closed Beta and realizing that they don't want to play either CO or STO. This is on the verge of becoming one of the most epic scams perpetrated in the history of MMOs and it's being carried off by a development studio!
By all admissions this game has been "rushed" and it is "half-baked". I think I am gonna wait til you all try it out first, before buying.
[Quote] My own philosophy with MMORPGs is that if you don't have it at launch, you might as well not bother having it[/Quote]
Well - there you have it.
You don't have Romulans at all, and you don't truly have Klingons. Why even bother?
Hence, good luck with your game. Luckily, SWToR comes out in 2010 too. I'm guessing they won't make either side in SW a PvP only faction.
The last time I heard a dev whining about lack of time was back when WAR released with a lot less content than it was supposed to. Didn't work out so well for that game. The bottom line from a player perspective is that this game seems rushed with only a two year development cycle. Sure, they can use an existing engine and that does speed up the development process, however with that in mind they should take a bit more time to make sure the game is ready to go (in a realistic sense) at launch. Launch is such a critical point that it seems mind-boggling to me that they wouldn't extend an already short development time a bit longer, especially when the longer time is still a short development time for a mmo. Of course, I guess it really doesn't matter all that much as I'll still get the darn game (damn my trek fandom), but if I'm bored after a month there's every possibility I'll leave and never come back. That's as good a reason as any (not for me but for all customers) to make sure the game is a polished and full featured as possible (again in a realistic sense) at launch. Bad bad move imo, but we'll see how it plays out.
Cryptic QQing? Nah....
I fully expect it to be full of bad bugs that dont get fixed. IT is not even here yet and I don't have any expectations of it doing well. Probably when all is said and done it will be another failed product for cryptic.
I had already cancled my preorders, and I have no intention of even playing this game until we can see what really happens.
Honesty the most promising feature so far.
They try to make something different and for me it sounds good.. why should all faction be equal in game play and style.
The only drawback will be a imbalance in PvP Skill later on this will a challenge to be solved even through most player will have a fed and a klingon char.
A faction full off players that do most of the time pvp (in form of a sort of klingon civil war) will at end be much more skilled in pvp as a faction full of carebee role play fed player and so the red will suffe rin PvP :o)
anyway a interesting aspect making me even more keen on the open beta and the start of the game.
I have already stoped to play EVE in anticipation of this
I've read the artical and several replies, both positive and negative. What I don't get is how people can say their disapointed with the level of PvE for Klingons when NO ONE HAS PLAYED IT YET!! All they said was that it would be less than the Federation, but so far that still leaves a HUGE amount of room to move in. And the fact you can't play them right away is still a big improvement over other games; WoW's Death Kinights are a prime example of how it COULD have been done.
The fact that Klingons are more PvP than the Federation MAKES SENSE with the cannon, or have people forgotten that Klingons are a WARRIOR RACE!? They already announced they will add Klingon Episodes IF enough people insist they do. The fact they've stated that is a GOOD THING. Perhaps something as simple as a Yes/No poll asking 'Should Cryptic add Klingon Episodic content?' would be what they're planning, but I'm eager to play the game regardless.
Geez, ease off the dev's already; you won't know how good or bad it is until you've tried it. Frankly, I think it's looking to be damn good, and I look forward to trying it all out THEN passing judgement.
That's very sweet and unjudgemental of you. Now, please come back down to reality. The FACT is that mmos are judged and purchased based on preliminary feedback, marketing, and pr for the game. Right now, Cryptic has made a terrible pr move. Like it or not, people WILL react to it, whether they should or shouldn't. Instead of being annoyed at the players for rushing to conclusions (which you will NEVER be able to stop), you should be annoyed with Cryptic for making such a bad pr move. The bottom line fact of the matter is that NOTHING pisses off mmo players more than devs reneging on prior content promises. Cryptic has broken the golden rule that they should have learned a long time ago from the mistakes of their competitors. From my perspective, it's a bad business mistake that will cost them a lot.
Project complexity is a completely invalid excuse. Complex or not, MMOs have been churned out for quite a few years now. Lessons have been learned, limitations recognized and the resources needed for particular tasks identified. Unless a project is trying something new (News flash: STO is not breaking any new ground here), there no reason a team should be surprised by any unanticipated “complexity.”
Further, if you were to put together even the most bare-boned Star Trek MMO with PvP option, it would be unthinkable to launch without both Federation and Klingon factions on equal footing (if PvP were not to be a game option, I could understand otherwise.) Ignoring any other feature of the game, this alone is a minimum requirement.
Failure in this regard clearly points to poor scope assessment, inadequate resource allocation and rushed development.
Cryptic downgraded this game below my interest level some time ago. This is yet another example of shortcuts taken in this game’s development. I’m just amazed at the number of apologists out here. You all deserve exactly what you get.
Ok... I stopped at this in the article. That kinda proofs that this game has absolutly NOTHING to do with gamers...
These guys are ready to launch whatever buggy crap they have at launch day... The fact is that playes would wait MUCH longer for a good and solid game.
Be perpaired to see another AOC or WAR launch when this game releases.
I would be very shocked if the game gets anything near that many box sales at launch.
The more I read about this fiasco of a game the more I laugh. This game can hardly be called a MMO.
Basically they have one race done and are releasing as such and let everyone pay to beta test the game.
Anyone buying this game in February needs to go see a shrink.
To be fair to Jack, he was responding to a question about why they didn't just not launch with Klingon then include them as a more robust faction with full PvE options. He cited CoH where they did that, waited to have full fledged crafting and PvP for later, and no one gave the game a second look when they launched them. Thus, they felt with Klingons it was better to have them there in a limited form at launch as the basis for a larger system than later as a full fledged system.
"All PvP in Star Trek Online, initially, will take place in instances."
That right there is where they lost me.
I am sick of devs taking the easy instance way out to "solve population issues".
You literally just stated that you neither want anyone to win or loose. There will be NO persistant world results to PVP.
Just safe "equal" instances. Lovely
Exactly,
Every good decent MMO that has launched and survived... had at least 4-5 years of development time!!
They want to rush STO, one of the biggest IP's in the world, in just under 2 and half years of development!
That's just ridiculous. And they know it. They just want to push this thing out of the door. OVER Hype it, so they can cut even on box sales already and don't give a damn if 80% drops the game out of boredom a month later, because of lack of content and diversity.
Good job Cryptic! With pushing the MMO genre even more into the gutter!
If they just take the 4 year average development time. Wich is NEEDED to create a decent MMO. That would mean they have 1 and a half year more time and so be able to put Klingons, Cardasians and Romulans in the game. And not having to instance the whole damn game either!!!
In other words. They would launch a MMO worthy of what the IP much deserves!!!! And people would happily wait and then actually play and stick around for the long run.
It's just such a waste of this great IP and what could have been!
Darkfall and Mortol Online that way -------->.
Any true STO fan will tell you that Star Trek universe is not about war only. Why do people start crying for open world pvp in every freaking new game that releases? STO was never PVP focused. It is a PVE game with PVP as an option. Now stop crying as if they broke a promise made to you in person.
Also for those bitchin about game being rushed; welcome to world of MMOs. They need to make money, its a business and not some social service. And coming this from Amazing Avery (AOC really?) it gives a whole new meaning to word irony.
Bad PR move? I have to disagree with you there. I don't see them reneging anything here. What I do see is a lot of people taking what was said and going off on a tangent based on wild assumptions rather than what's really there. I see people complaining that Klingons are not gonna have PvE and they'll be purely PvP; that's not what was said in the article. What was said was that they'll have more PvP and less PvE than the Federation; and that fits both the game and the mythos perfectly.
What I see missing in most of these posts is just plain common sense. Sure, be pissed off at what it could be lacking, but if you're gonna be closed-minded and foolish and refuse to play based on nothing more than an assumption without any facts or experience to back you, then this game is definitely not for you and I'm not sad to se you go.
My issue is people are reacting; they're not using their brains, they're just taking a line or two and running off into the wild blue yonder crying 'FOUL!'. Frankly, I expect better from a Star Trek fan-base, period.
i'll be rolling klingon obviously, not dissapointed that klingon will be pvp focused, as i'm not big on pve anyway, but instanced only pvp is kinda lame. it's not hard to do decent world pvp even if that world pvp is limited to certain zones. as long as those zones have high pve value, pvpers will be happy.
also, glad that they will have overlapping. was worried that i would only be able to use a bird of prey at low levels. it's a beautiful ship and i hope to play one at endgame pvp.
however, this game will be a niche game at best for trekkies only. i do not have high hopes at all and expect it to go f2p with a cash shop within the first year. the fact that the game will be single shard just goes to show that the devs themselves don't have high expectations for the game, and that's why they've limited dev time to feddie pve only.
as long as klingon pvp gives enough rewards for relatively fast progression i'll be moderately satiated for a few months. i don't see this game staying subscribed to after swtor's launch though, especially if swtor has pvp.
People aren't overreacting at all!
Champions Online failed misserably too! And that one had actually more development time then Star Trek Online. Go figure man and get a frigging clue!!
Everyone with more then one single braincell knows that creating an MMO cost a jitload of money and at least 4 to 5 years development time!
Merely 2 and half years is just NOT ENOUGH! You cannot create a succesful MMO in just 2 and half years! PERIOD!
A very good and high quality Single player RPG or FPS / RTS game takes already one to two years of development time!
And that's just 40 to 60 hours worth of content!!
And MMO needs a hell lot more, if you want people to stick around for more then 1 or 2 months and actually subscribe!!
That's why it takes 4 to 5 years to create an MMO. Not to mention that a MMO is so much more complex and takes a hell lot more design time as well!
Cheers
Because if every MMOG ever made isn't made exactly how I want them to be, then they automatically fail... especially FFA PvP, full loot and permadeath zOMG!!! You get used to hearing it, as inane and ridiculous as it is, and you just ignore it. Unfortunately most of the time when someone starts crying about how X MMOG should have X type PvP people just muckle right onto it and start crying right back, like somehow this PvE-centric game is going to suddenly become PvP-centric because of what this one dude said...
I do not agree with this. There's no reason you cannot take an existing engine, slap on some new art, and create an enjoyable and sucessful game. The key is not to be overly ambitious and tell your customers upfront what they will and will not be getting.
Now, some IPs cannot be done justice in such a timespan. That's a different matter.
meh, i've decided to be a patient grasshopper and see if sto can snatch the money from my hand... or if it ends up in an embarrassingly compromised tied up position in some asian closet. we only have to wait until february to see.
Rushed MMOs fail. This IS about business and that means that if you rush the product, then there are many who won't buy it and many who won't complain. You think we should feel sorry for the poor Cryptic because they are just a li'l business and pay them money for a product that was rushed, looks sloppy, and that we don't want? I think not.
I do not agree with this. There's no reason you cannot take an existing engine, slap on some new art, and create an enjoyable and sucessful game. The key is not to be overly ambitious and tell your customers upfront what they will and will not be getting.
Now, some IPs cannot be done justice in such a timespan. That's a different matter.
Maybe if you had a ton of money and could hire a ridiculous number of people that is true. But good writing and questing takes time, and that's not related to the engine that much. Good combat systems take time, and that's not related to the engine all that much. Plenty of other things about an MMO take time to do right, cutting out designing the engine does save time, but I know of zero MMOs made in so short a period that have done well. Heck, the ones made in 3 full years that have done well are completely unheard of by me (I doubt they exist). Like someone said, compared to a single-player game, MMOs require a TON of content work for all the players and all that takes time. Randomizing things can help, but it takes a TON of time to make a good randomizer, and it just seems like they've rushed into all this and haven't taken nearly enough time. Another two years and we all would have been a lot better off.
Bingo! One and a half month from release and no one has played the Klingon content yet since it has not made it into beta. What does that tell you?
Bad PR move? I have to disagree with you there. I don't see them reneging anything here. What I do see is a lot of people taking what was said and going off on a tangent based on wild assumptions rather than what's really there. I see people complaining that Klingons are not gonna have PvE and they'll be purely PvP; that's not what was said in the article. What was said was that they'll have more PvP and less PvE than the Federation; and that fits both the game and the mythos perfectly.
They have said no genesis content and no episodic content. The PvE is "random encounters"literally.
As for the idea the Klingons are more suited to PvP than PVE, care to explain that assertion? How can a war with the Romulans be represented in PvP when there are no players who control Romulans? How can the exploration and conquest/assimilation/vassalage/etc of more primitive cultures be shown if no players control such groups? While there is some sense of honor among SOME PvPers, one doesn't see it as a general feature of PvPers, and so the idea that a Klingon's word of honor means something in a strict PvP environment is ridiculous. Do you have anything to answer this beyond a so far baseless claim that it isn't true?
In MMO's... its all about character development... do you or do you NOT feel attached to your characters. Do they make you log in month after month... do they engage you to buy more accounts to explore different facet of the game as a different profession, ect ect.
If you don't feel connected to your character.. if its limited in development... if its too one-dimensional... the player will bore and leave and look for that connection in another game.
My point here is.... if Klingons are not really a full-fledged character.. it its really just a one-dimensional 'shooter' character... then it will attract a very narrow playerbase.. and they will not stick around for long.
STO Klingons will, at least at launch.. be more about the Ship than the personality.
PvE gives you time to invest in your character.. get connected.. and those NPC missions and kills bond the character with the player.
I think STO is going to have a huge core of loyal 'Star Trek Fan(atic)' federation players... then a whole 'transiant' bunch of Klingon players that come and go.
Klingons... quest for honor.. proving yourself worthy... defending your leadership challenges.. all really good NPC-based character development opportunities.
Yes.. PvP is important at launch, but so is TWO FULLY DEVELOPED FACTIONs... at least two.. more is better.
I guess we will all have the luxury of watching this 'experiment' in the next year or so. If it was up to me.. I wouldn't 'cheat' on the 2nd faction development before launch.
But hey.. its not my money.. good luck!
Maybe if you had a ton of money and could hire a ridiculous number of people that is true. But good writing and questing takes time, and that's not related to the engine that much. Good combat systems take time, and that's not related to the engine all that much. Plenty of other things about an MMO take time to do right, cutting out designing the engine does save time, but I know of zero MMOs made in so short a period that have done well. Heck, the ones made in 3 full years that have done well are completely unheard of by me (I doubt they exist). Like someone said, compared to a single-player game, MMOs require a TON of content work for all the players and all that takes time. Randomizing things can help, but it takes a TON of time to make a good randomizer, and it just seems like they've rushed into all this and haven't taken nearly enough time. Another two years and we all would have been a lot better off.
QFT! Well said. Even with a licensed engine it doesn't mean that you can do it in 2 and half years.
Vanguard and AION are MMO's build on licensed engines. Both had at least 4 years development time.
Age of Conan and WAR were build on existing inhouse engines. Both had at least 4 years development time (WAR I think a bit shorter).
AION, AoC and WAR had huge development teams (200+ peeps) and yet they still released with not enough content, were very buggy and felt unpolished.
And tman5 thinks that Cryptic will do better with almost half the development time and a much smaller team?? Yeah right. Just have to point to their other game. Champions Online.
Enough said.
I can not wait to play it...
I had not changed my mind about purchasing the game at launch but did think the news about the Klingon faction for Cryptic and the game was overall bad but after reading this article I think it makes some sense and works out much better than the earlier news made it seem.
But one thing Emmert says in the article I have a problem with is the line about if you don't have it in at launch you may as well not have it, new subscribers should not be the only reason to improve on a game especially when it is just adding content we are speaking of and not outright changes. I just hope that this statement isn't a reflection of how alot of devs in the industry think (though I fear it may be) and that is looking at game improvements simply as a tool to increase subs. And I'm sometimes led to believe that may be the case since I think the rate of change in mmo's doesn't reflect the capabilities available to most companies.
Bad PR move? I have to disagree with you there. I don't see them reneging anything here. What I do see is a lot of people taking what was said and going off on a tangent based on wild assumptions rather than what's really there. I see people complaining that Klingons are not gonna have PvE and they'll be purely PvP; that's not what was said in the article. What was said was that they'll have more PvP and less PvE than the Federation; and that fits both the game and the mythos perfectly.
What I see missing in most of these posts is just plain common sense. Sure, be pissed off at what it could be lacking, but if you're gonna be closed-minded and foolish and refuse to play based on nothing more than an assumption without any facts or experience to back you, then this game is definitely not for you and I'm not sad to se you go.
My issue is people are reacting; they're not using their brains, they're just taking a line or two and running off into the wild blue yonder crying 'FOUL!'. Frankly, I expect better from a Star Trek fan-base, period.
Well the first thing you have to realize is that this is a mmo audience, not a star trek fan-base (even though the two do merge in many cases). Second, I never said I wouldn't play the game. I'm just saying that it was well-known there would be Federation and Klingon factions in the game, and now one of those factions will be marginalized to some degree. From the analytical viewpoint of mmos, I see this as a big mistake, and those reasons are in the quote you posted. I've seen a fair amount of mmos launch and every one that has pulled this kind of stunt has suffered. Despite the IP, I don't see the results being much different this time around, although I could certainly be wrong.
Until they make a sandbox ST MMO I won't be happy, what they are making is a poor excuse of a game and it's only worse they used the ST IP when it deserves so much more than what cryptic is doing with it. Yeah they are given a time-frame... guess what, deny the time-frame. Christ if I was a developer I'd be ashamed to release this game the way it's unfolding.
Quoted for Truth.
Exactly the point I made on another forum and the reasoning behind my post all the way back on page two of the thread.
Well, lets just hope the Orion gals look good in Hawt Pants! :P
Listening to this guy speak makes me see this game failing due to being rushed to the sales floor by the clueless execs.If anything can be learned from Blizzard is that when making a game time should not be a huge factor.When the game is ready then release.I already see from reading this that the game is going to release with the release now add later mentality and will fail.I am sure a few trekkie nerds will probably stay with it to live out their fantasies,but over all this is not what I was looking forward to hearing.I still plan on trying the game out,but I have decided not to buy the game at release like I was going to do after reading this post,I will be taking a wait and see approach to the game from here on out.
Just put Cardassians or Romulans in with the same setup as Klingons.
I will fight the Klingons then!!!!!
*Sigh*
Yeah is it just me or is STO seeming to be driving strait toward Star Wars Galaxies territory? Honestly I was so happy for Galaxies and then I played it. Now I'm only 1/4 the Star Wars fan that I am a Star Trek Fan. So yeah, I'm VERY gunshy about STO. So yeah no pay until I play. Period.
In fact I don't plan to buy a box of this even if I do get into the game. So I shall wait for Free trial or Beta.
So, according to the above... The "neutral zone" is same with the War Zone and even that will be made up of 10 vs 10 instances?
10 v 10 instance. For christs sake, this single-player game type, wrapped in a false mmorpg package like POtBS, has gotta stop. Hopefully this game will crash and burn from even kids refusing to pay $15/month for a single-player game.
I smell another Conan/WAR/Aion... I for one canceled my pre-order and am not going to buy this game till I see some serious reviews/player base...
All game developers need to learn The Seven P's: Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance.
No project- game or otherwise- has unlimited time or budget. However, proper requirements assessment and definition is essential to performance. Too many times - and I believe Cryptic and STO is an example - nothing more than a rough idea is pitched to an investor, and from this "concept" a budget set and development scheduled. Only later as the details are worked out does it become apparent the scope is too large for allotted resources and disappointment ensues.
Take the time upfront to clearly plan and scope the project and pitch your idea based on solid details of execution. Know exactly what will be in game before allocating resources and before opening your mouth to potential customers. Stop biting off more than you can chew. Stop lowballing investors. Stop disappointing your customers.
It's also clear from this article that Cryptic still has no idea what the Klingon faction will really be all about. This is pure damage control.
Interestingly enough, according to the STOKED podcast, Cryptic gained the IP after Perpetual folded in a one week window by slapping some Star Trek art onto the Champions engine and promising to deliver the game fast and cheap. They say that you can have a project done fast, cheap or good, and you can only choose two of the above. Seems like Cryptic planned to deliver this game fast and cheap from the very beginning.
What's with people claiming that "PvP makes sense for Klingons!!!"? How does that even make sense? The Klingons are a warrior race, so combat style gameplay makes sense for them. This combat gameplay can be both PvP and PvE. Why does it have to be just one or the other?
For example, I would expect that "Klingon exploration missions" would involve the player "conquering new life and new civilizations" just like the Federation exploration would involve peaceful contact and scientific exploration. Both systems would be PvE, but one would be based on war and combat and the other peace and exploration. Both would make sense from a "canon" Star Trek perspective.
So no, Klingon does not automatically equal PvP, it does equal combat, but this can be PvE and PvP combat.
To be fair to Jack, he was responding to a question about why they didn't just not launch with Klingon then include them as a more robust faction with full PvE options. He cited CoH where they did that, waited to have full fledged crafting and PvP for later, and no one gave the game a second look when they launched them. Thus, they felt with Klingons it was better to have them there in a limited form at launch as the basis for a larger system than later as a full fledged system.
As a CoH player I can say that PvP in CoH was never very good to begin with, and no one really cared about the crafting system. The crafting system is good and all, but not a very high priority for the CoH community. Ask Jack why he adamantly refused to put in a flashback system, which was something the players really wanted.
Because you are supposed to be a pain the the ass to Federation players and the Feds and Klingons are at war.
I'm half serious. :)
I dont have high hopes about this game. My main reasons?
- instanced pvp; i saw that with PotBS and it was horrible
- short development time; i cannot think of 1 MMO i liked, that has such short time to market. it feels like being rushed.
- limited features at start; i lost faith that games full of potential will live up to it
Off topic about project management
It is very well possible to make a project plan (and planning) and get your game done according to it. I am a PM in the ICT business and deliver project results on time, daily.
It takes :
- experience (if you dont have that in-house, buy it from others)
- well defined goals and a good breakdown in money, people, time, to get them done
- Publishers and developpers and everyone else involved that stick to the plan and live up to their initial signature
I have a feeling that many companies very well know they wont be able to live up to their promisses but go on with in anyway. To get the budget they otherwise would have never gotten. Resulting in poor MMO that do their genre more harm than good.
I find this interesting as well, when all of these publishers are trying to alchemicaly decipher why WoW is SO flipping successful, they all seem to miss the fact that Blizzard religiously adheres to a 'release when it's ready' philosophy, and don't just invest money, but time in their product.
Could the fact that Blizzard shipped a complete game have SOMETHING to do with their success? NO WAY! That'd be too easy!
The truth!
Maybe if you had a ton of money and could hire a ridiculous number of people that is true. But good writing and questing takes time, and that's not related to the engine that much. Good combat systems take time, and that's not related to the engine all that much. Plenty of other things about an MMO take time to do right, cutting out designing the engine does save time, but I know of zero MMOs made in so short a period that have done well. Heck, the ones made in 3 full years that have done well are completely unheard of by me (I doubt they exist). Like someone said, compared to a single-player game, MMOs require a TON of content work for all the players and all that takes time. Randomizing things can help, but it takes a TON of time to make a good randomizer, and it just seems like they've rushed into all this and haven't taken nearly enough time. Another two years and we all would have been a lot better off.
QFT! Well said. Even with a licensed engine it doesn't mean that you can do it in 2 and half years.
Vanguard and AION are MMO's build on licensed engines. Both had at least 4 years development time.
Age of Conan and WAR were build on existing inhouse engines. Both had at least 4 years development time (WAR I think a bit shorter).
AION, AoC and WAR had huge development teams (200+ peeps) and yet they still released with not enough content, were very buggy and felt unpolished.
And tman5 thinks that Cryptic will do better with almost half the development time and a much smaller team?? Yeah right. Just have to point to their other game. Champions Online.
Enough said.
Obviously, both you and Drachasor missed my main point, so I highlighted it so you could reread it.
I also highlighted my secondary point, which goes right to the question of whether Star Trek is the right property to tackle given the obvious constraints of time and money.
Cryptic is not alone in making promises they cannot keep. That is MMO industry standard and will continue that way until MMO customers refuse to accept less than promised.
But, as has been said, MMOs are like crack and some tweakers don't care if their junk is cut with bleach as long as they get their next fix.
Quoted for truthiness.
I have never seen such a group of consumers so willing to be manipulated, deceived, and cheated by people they are paying.
It's truly incredible.
You sunk my Klingon battlecruiser before the game even launched!! Poor Cryptic!
I agree that Star Trek can't be done in a short amount of time, and would probably take a bit longer than another MMO. However, 2 years isn't enough for ANY good MMO, regardless of the IP. CO is much the same in terms of development and it is also racked with problems. In fact, there have been no games made in such a short amount of time that didn't bleed massive numbers of customers (assuming they had any significant number of people buy it). So, what I was trying to say is some time and money constraints just can't get the job done, no matter what. Cryptic seems to be operating under those and so the game they have made looks to be lacking lots of content and generally of somewhat shoddy construction.
If they had only promised what they could do, and didn't spin, spin, spin, then there'd be a lot less excitement about the game. They are handling the media aspect fairly well for whatever that is worth.
Anyhow, I don't disagree with what you said. I just wanted to emphasize the absurdly short time they've tried to make this game and how that wouldn't work for ANY MMO.
Until Cryptic makes Klingons a fully fleshed out (meaning History, Storyline, PvP AND PvE content) playable race I will not be playing.
Im fine with Klingons (and their faction) being created and directed as more PvP centric. In fact I WANT to kill Federation.
But not in this half-assed sideshow redheaded stepchild incarnation.
I want Klingons to be a true faction/race. To do any less is..well.. dishonorable.
They want to take a year to do that fine, but until then I wont even consider touching it.
Meh, comparing the size of the Star Trek IP to the size of the Star Wars IP, I'd have to say they're at least equal, if not tipped on the ST side. So why can Bioware put out a (reputedly) monstrous game while Cryptic can only put out a moderate one?
I'd have to say a major factor is the difference in the support each company is getting. Bioware has LucasArts all behind this game, while Cryptic is getting what? I've honestly heard nothing about the support from Paramount other than "they gave us a lot of stuff to look at and read".
Another difference would be the capabilities of the two companies. Bioware has a ton of content creation, while Cryptic has their engine. Both are advantages, but the ability to create content is directly responsible for how "big "a game you have. I think Cryptic just ran out of the ability to make game content, and that's why we can't have more than 1 fully playable race at launch. Hopefully after a couple of months, they'll be able to fill out the Klingons, then launch Romulans and the rest.
Could it be possible that what they are doing is a smart thing?
This is how I see things at present
Most developers work on a game for a very long time, getting in, or at least trying to get in all kinds of features, content etc for launch.. what if the game is a flop? Thats a big investment on a risk.
What I see Cryptic doing here is putting out a smaller game with basic features and content to create an income, to justify (hopefully) later adding the investment of more content and features.. if you think about it, its a smart business decision. Well, IMO anyway.
What you get is a bunch of people quitting. I think they will turn a profit. Cheap to make, so if a bunch of people buy it, then they make money off the box sales. After that a lot of people are going to quit because it will be obviously cheap and Cryptic certainly isn't advertising it as cheap, but rather as a full experience. Also, if they did advertise it as such, they couldn't justify all the prices as they'd basically be saying "pay for beta!" Anyhow, like CO, expect a lot of people to quit in the first few months, and given how they are doing some of the beta testing, I'd expect that 45 day expansion to get delayed because they are busy putting out fires left and right.
In reference to City of Heroes;
"Two of the biggest complaints people had is that it launched without PvP and without crafting, yet when they added those two elements later on they saw only negligible subscription growth."
This statement is true, but also inaccurate. The issues was NOT that the game launched without either of those items. The lack of growth in their subscription base (and actually, they saw a reduction in subscriptions) was the extremely poor implementation of both game mechanics at the outset. Many of those changes also affected gameplay in CoH across the board.
Items such as travel power suppression, "enhancement diversification (ED)", reduction in the effective damage of classes whose primary ability was delivering damage, reduction in defense for classes whose primary abilities were defensive... all of those changes were made prior to and in preparation for the introduction of PvP.
The fact that they also basically introduced completely separate game mechanics for the way that powers and abilities would work in PvP vs. PvE was also an issue.
In effect, rather than adding PvP to the game, they created an entirely different game for PvP. For many, that was a huge disappointment. I know, because I was one of those who was anxiously anticipating PvP in CoH, but seriously disappointed by the implementation.
The crafting system somewhat follows along the same lines. Changes were made to the basic game mechanics that kept players from achieving the full potential of their character. The introduction of the crafting system gave back the ability for the player to almost approach their pre-ED power levels.
The problem with that is, what many subscribers enjoyed about CoH (besides simply being a hero) was the fact that you could jump in, do a couple missions, and that the enhancement system was uncomplicated. It allowed you to feel like you accomplished something every time you logged in.
The addition of the crafting system has made it so that the difference between the "haves" and the "have nots" is very apparent. It is very clear that those who have crafted sets and full IO load-outs are more effective than their counterparts who are without.
So while the crafting system isn't broken per se, it is basically on the same level as raiding; repetitive missions and task force runs for rare drops, merits to buy recipes, etc. A lot of people simply do not like raiding, or crafting for that matter.
So in the end, both systems really just lacked from poor implementation.
Finally, CoH was and is a niche game. Not everyone is going to like it, regardless of what is added. The only advantage to having PvP and crafting at release would have been that the players would understand the systems from the outset, rather than having them foisted on them in a manner that went against everything CoH was when it released.
If they would have implemented the systems seamlessly into the existing game without changing a wide variety of existing game mechanics, or using existing mechanics that other MMOs have implemented in much the same way for years, they probably would have been more successful.
I just felt the need to say that; because I think that Jack Emmertt's statement about not having it at launch means you should basically not have it is seriously flawed.
I am a big fan of Star Trek so I had high hopes for this game. But then I saw Cryptic was making it and I had to lower those expectations a lot.
Not being able to choose Kilingon, and relegating Klingons to "monster play," is a huge mistake. They can make whatever excuses they like, but it will hurt the game.
Perhaps you missed the memo. Klingons are not "monster play" they are quite a bit more. Limited PvE at release, but with input from the players it can be changed. Mostly combat based with a bunch of PvP built in. (house v house, dueling, etc.) They are unlocked after you finish the tutorial. Full skill trees and ranks.
That's still stupid and a huge fail. Why should you have no unlock them? Why are they more PvP based? That sounds to me ling Klingons will have a unfair advantage in PvP. That's lame as hell. Both sides should be as equally adept at PvE and PvP. Cryptic has so many bad ideas I swear. Oh well I can be certain SWTOR will crush this game.
I like what they're doing with Klingons. I also like the Federation tutorial idea. Why have two tutorials when the mechanics are the same? I also like the PvP focus at launch for Klingons, along with some PvE content. I'm also glad that there's an openness to add more PvE content, and or more PvP options. Very cool.
I really like their loot ideas. Loot for PvP is fantastic, especially when it doesn't cost the losing player. In CoH when I destroyed a villains heavy bot, I got some nice loot, at no cost to the villain. That was good stuff. I also like the usual loot for PvE questing.
What I really, really like is that there is no mention of RMT loot. It would be really nice to play a fun subscription only game once again. Those were my two best MMO experiences. Sadly both of those games underwent massive revamps after going live, and both added RMT. Both are also struggling population wise; one is on life-support. They were doing much better, both of them, before the revamps and RMT.
I'm also really impressed that Jack admitted the tunnel vision effect. Jack's a smart guy, and it's easy to think that your "right" is better than what players are actually asking for. It's still a mistake though, or a blind-spot. I'm glad he has been able to see this, and that he's made a decision to really put value on things that seem like priorities to the player-base. Way to go Jack!
Looking good so far. This is now my number one, "can't wait to try this out game." Number two at this point is TOR. I'm still waiting though to see if that has RMT. I especially hate that when items enhance gameplay somehow :P. There's just too much opportunity for that too become a manipulative money magnet. I just want to pay a reasonable fee for a nice entertainment service.
I cannot believe this game is going to be released in this condition.
Why is it legal to sell software that is incomplete or filled with known errors. Why is it legal to make claims and then not deliver on the claims. Why are you allowed to say one thing and deliver another. My bet is the box will make claims about content that is incomplete or not even there.
You sell this as a car it would be a lemon.
You sell it as software it is working as intended.
One of the biggest problems with the MMO world is the people who screwed up all the games in the past are now directors or managers at the companies making the current batch. How many games do you have to screw up before you can't get hired again?
Project Management can be tough. Whatever timeline a company puts on production they should add a mandatory year and the budget should reflect that extra year inclusively.
You like Scotty says it will take 6 hours but I'll have it ready in 2 hrs. That "Miracle Worker" philosophy should be standard practice.
Saying that - I preordered today.
Had to, have every piece of watchable media at home already.
You're part of the problem. It's people like you who are making such shoddy and incomplete MMO releases commercially viable.
What irks me about all this is not that the klingons aren't getting full PVE but that when the word about this game broke, Cryptic made such a big deal about how the unusually short the development time for STO was not going to be a problem as were so pro at this gig.
So sick of all the hot air and spin that comes from these companies. You'd think people would have learned after that WAR guy made a public fool of himself.
You're part of the problem. It's people like you who are making such shoddy and incomplete MMO releases commercially viable.
I agree 100%. I own all the shows as well but it's not because I'm a vacant moron who buys something because it has a star trek logo on it . Cryptic need to earn my money by doing something a little more compelling than buying some merchandising rights.
It's not a matter of a few months push back, I'm sure. It's a matter of a few years push back. Features take time and resources - especially core features that need to be integrated into the game from the ground up. Both from a design standpoint and a tech standpoint, but also things like GUI come heavily into play. They would need to be included in the initial design from day 1 to not feel the same sort of "tacked on" you would get if it happened post launch.
Now don't take me for an industry apologist. I'm not. But the core problem is the two necessary skill-sets for being a game director / executive producer of an MMO are the ability to manage and lead a 200+ person team and deal with a budget in the 10s of millions, know how to schedule and release a software product, AND the ability to keep an overview over every area of design, and be a competent designer in those areas at least from a high level. These are not skill-sets commonly found in general, much less in a single person.
Now lets introduce a dirty little fact of the software industry. The guys that get promoted to key positions within a company, generally do so out of their ability to "be friends with the right people," with their skills as a secondary consideration. It's the old-boy's network. And yes, it exists in games to.
See another dev who says they dont have time, they have to make tough choices, blah, blah, blah. Another one of those dev who think they know better than the players. STO will be a huge disapointment i already see it.
You can't compare Lucas Arts direct care of thier IP to Paramount/CBS's slapping a label on a box. The franchises have both equal importance but both are handled very very differently. Lucas Film has created a subdevision to handle such properties, Lucas Arts. Paramount is still struggling with the concept that people are stil buying this "shlock in a box" when it comes to Star Trek. Its an old studio additude. Warner Brothers has woken to the idea that DC might be bankable after "Dark Knight" broke records sales. They have now created DC Entertainment to manage all the DC properties. Marvel Studios was created for the same thing. Paramount needs to re-organize Star Trek with the success of the new Star Trek movie and related products. Part of the problem is they just don't want some upstart producers thinking they are too vital to the system and keep them starved to work. But thats the Hollywood side of this.
One strong argument to any failings of STO is that it needs more time. I have to counter with Time=Money. Paramount and Atari are out of both and need this game out on time. For Paramount, they invested back with Perpetual and all Cryptic is doing is finishing the job for them. Should they invest more? Hell, yes but thier budgets are set for the next year. Moneys earned from the new film should be channled but those projections are probably already spent. Atari is in Legal trouble and has nothing to offer Cryptic that may be need in the battles to come. So this leaves Cryptic a little better off then CME is with Star Gate Worlds. MGM can't help CME anymore because of losses due to Ponsie Skeams and film flops. STO is just out of time and has to show now.
I agree 100%. I own all the shows as well but it's not because I'm a vacant moron who buys something because it has a star trek logo on it . Cryptic need to earn my money by doing something a little more compelling than buying some merchandising rights.
So its wrong to buy this to see if we'll like it or not??? I didnt realize that our opinions dont matter.
Fact of the matter you arent going to truely know if you like a game or not unless you play it. Sure you can go by the doom and gloom that people who havent even played a second of the game have been posting since day one or you can trust your own instincts. I will get this game and try it out and if I dont like it then I wont play it. Just like I did with Age of Conan, Champions Online, Matrix Online, Star Wars Galaxies, City of Heroes, Wow...and just like I plan to do for The Old Republic, DC Universe and the Marvel Universe game.....
Whatever. I'm sure the sleazy devs who rush garbage onto the market appreciate you.
I like your car comment. The Edsel was sent to dealers in a similar condition lol. It came with missing parts; they were sent along seperately 0_o.
Having said that, what I see Jack doing is the opposite of misleading people. Conan hyped features that weren't in the game at release. Vanguard hyped features that weren't in the game at release. StarWars Galaxies added jedi unlocks after release (according to one dev) despite people searching for ways to unlock them when the game went live. Emmert on the other hand seems to be telling us what this game's limitations will be when it launches.
While I'm not thrilled by the limitations (I'd like Klingons to be more complete as well), I do acknowledge and appreciate Jack's honesty. I don't really see a lot of spin here tbh.
So, okay, give me Klingons with a PvP focus and limited PvE; and then build from there. I think though that Klingon PvE content will have to be an early priority for updates to keep the faction viable. Then Jack's going to have to make sure this isn't rushed out in a crappy, boring, repetitive state. It'll probably be a challenge.
Bad PR move? I have to disagree with you there. I don't see them reneging anything here. What I do see is a lot of people taking what was said and going off on a tangent based on wild assumptions rather than what's really there. I see people complaining that Klingons are not gonna have PvE and they'll be purely PvP; that's not what was said in the article. What was said was that they'll have more PvP and less PvE than the Federation; and that fits both the game and the mythos perfectly.
What I see missing in most of these posts is just plain common sense. Sure, be pissed off at what it could be lacking, but if you're gonna be closed-minded and foolish and refuse to play based on nothing more than an assumption without any facts or experience to back you, then this game is definitely not for you and I'm not sad to se you go.
My issue is people are reacting; they're not using their brains, they're just taking a line or two and running off into the wild blue yonder crying 'FOUL!'. Frankly, I expect better from a Star Trek fan-base, period.
You're suger coating it, they don't have time to finish content for the klingons so they are for the most part saying that kligons are monster play and for me thats a big no no. I just got out of cryptics champions and trust me when I say they are spread to thin on the dev teams. Nothing is getting fixed over there in champions. Its been months and there are the same broken moves in PVP the same problem with ALL nvidia drivers newer than one of the old builds(trust me I had to have special drivers just for champions that were VERY OLD), as well as a multitude of other problems(lack of content anyone?).
Cryptic might have burned me on champions but after seeing that and seeing the path that STO online is taking I am going to pass for now. This just shows me they still don't get it. Jack is hard headed and never wants to bend to what the CUSTOMER WANTS. Til he gets that through his thick skull I fear cryptic is doomed to make the same mistakes as to not hurt his, cough "vision".
Whatever. I'm sure the sleazy devs who rush garbage onto the market appreciate you.
If its a crap game I wont be on it for long. However the advantage I will have is that I will dislike the game from having played it while you have allowed other people to influence your opinion.
If its a crap game I wont be on it for long. However the advantage I will have is that I will dislike the game from having played it while you have allowed other people to influence your opinion.
Only the devs, as it is all their information. And I won't have paid Cryptic to produce crap and do injustice to a fine IP.
Just because the game has a monthly fee does not mean you have to play forever.
I have preordered, and maybe I will only play a few weeks...
How many games without a monthly fee havent you finished in a few days or weeks at max.
I really hope that the game has enough content for more than a few weeks, and I dontthink the doomsayers are right, I think there will be plenty.
What I have seen so far makes me courious enough to preorder so I can play in middle of January.
Only the devs, as it is all their information. And I won't have paid Cryptic to produce crap and do injustice to a fine IP.
I didnt realize this game was the balance of power for Star Trek....that if it wasnt sucessful Star Trek was going away forever and never coming back.....yet the more you talk about this game the more free publicity you are giving it. Bad publicity is still publicity...and how many people are now going to try the game just because they want to see if its as bad as the naysayers proclaim.
Cool. I have 72 Ford Pinto I'll sell you for $500. I know people will tell you that it will explode and kill you if you get rear-ended but why not see for yourself?
Cool. I have 72 Ford Pinto I'll sell you for $500. I know people will tell you that it will explode and kill you if you get rear-ended but why not see for yourself?
Wagon or Hatchback?
I don't want to appear negative, but those flames aren't painted on.
I don't want to appear negative, but those flames aren't painted on.
Yep, and some dang fools street surf. I can't think of a better use for a wagon than to take 'em out of the gene pool. ;)
It's a well known fact that in the MMO industry the vast majority of money is made from initial box sales. That's because these box sales come with the first month of playing free. Now, if a company wants to retain subscriptions past the initial free month, then they have to give the player something to do to keep them playing the game.
By putting out a "basic game" light on content and features Cryptic is shooting themselves in the foot with future subscription numbers past the first month. Emmert even says “My own philosophy with MMORPGs is that if you don’t have it at launch, you might as well not bother having it,” he then goes on to say that features added to the game after launch won't attract the large subscription numbers they want. Essentially, after the game launches, Cryptic announcing "the Klingons are now a full fleshed out faction in the latest free patch!" won't really attract new subscriptions unless they can do it in under 30 days after launch.
So, Cryptic seems to be aiming for the huge initial box sales and low or modest future subscription numbers. Don't be surprised if this game is a ghost town after 30 days.
Cool. I have 72 Ford Pinto I'll sell you for $500. I know people will tell you that it will explode and kill you if you get rear-ended but why not see for yourself?
well that doesnt really fit what we are talking about because there is plenty of evidence that a Pinto will explode based on it actually happened. Every calling this game crap has not played the game. This would be like telling you the 2015 Ford Mustang will explode when rear ended.
Tell that to Star Wars Galaxies.
I'll be extrordinarily generous to Jack and his vison for once.
If City of Heroes had launched with PVP and Limited Villain play at launch it might have made for an overall better experience than the tacked-on klugdy mess City of Heroes can be at times. It's took 5 years to get some of the more wierder designed decisions sorted out.
That being said, from what I understand the PVP in Champions online is questionable at best and some of the powers feel like they've never been properly playtested.
I'm hoping the PVP design of STO is more balanced. Nothing kills PVP faster than perma-Stun/Hold-lock.
I was just wondering if any of you have played the Star Trek mmorpg yet, and how do you think its comming along as they are about a month from launch now?
Nice try.
Nice try.
Well actually - in another thread someone said this:
"...You take Star Trek Online for example you are talking about, as I just played it this afternoon for the first time and under NDA can't say nothing, but just to think that its coming out in 2 months time and what is available to test in closed beta is just mind baffling.. No PvP testing yet, no crafting implemented yet, and lots of stuff turned off.. Its not evena beta that you can play at your leisure, its like set times.. What are we testing? Not the game, the friggan game is just being developed and tweaked, lol..How can you call this a beta test at all? What are we really testing or changing? The whole friggan game should be closed to finished in a closed beta and should be a game very well done and being polished. In a super polish test phase and game mechanics super fun overhaul type of way.. Nope, not today, we learned how to scam a buck with the bare minimum work, and learned to exploit the needs of a beta.."
Truth? Or attention seeking? You be the judge.
Nice try.
Do you really think Cryptic has nothing better to do in the last month of development then cruise forms to see if someone in the beta is talking about it? Put down the retard sandwich my friend. If anyone without a retard sandwich reads this plz let me know I am trying to decide if I should pre-order. Thank you.
Well actually - in another thread someone said this:
"...You take Star Trek Online for example you are talking about, as I just played it this afternoon for the first time and under NDA can't say nothing, but just to think that its coming out in 2 months time and what is available to test in closed beta is just mind baffling.. No PvP testing yet, no crafting implemented yet, and lots of stuff turned off.. Its not evena beta that you can play at your leisure, its like set times.. What are we testing? Not the game, the friggan game is just being developed and tweaked, lol..How can you call this a beta test at all? What are we really testing or changing? The whole friggan game should be closed to finished in a closed beta and should be a game very well done and being polished. In a super polish test phase and game mechanics super fun overhaul type of way.. Nope, not today, we learned how to scam a buck with the bare minimum work, and learned to exploit the needs of a beta.."
Truth? Or attention seeking? You be the judge.
Ya kind of worries me that the mmorpg guy only got to test it for 3hr. I mean they are only about a month from launch what is there to hide? I am just worried about pre-ordering another AOC. Before fan boys go crazy I am not talking about AOC now I am speaking of at launch. At launch AOC was wonderful for 20 lvls then hit a brick wall and was really crap after that.
The people in charge of this game are idiots. Why is there even a time constraint on a freaking MMO? Do these people detest the idea of making money or something?
Maybe they should make it F2P for 6 months instead of 1.
Would that make you happy?
Well actually - in another thread someone said this:
"...You take Star Trek Online for example you are talking about, as I just played it this afternoon for the first time and under NDA can't say nothing, but just to think that its coming out in 2 months time and what is available to test in closed beta is just mind baffling.. No PvP testing yet, no crafting implemented yet, and lots of stuff turned off.. Its not evena beta that you can play at your leisure, its like set times.. What are we testing? Not the game, the friggan game is just being developed and tweaked, lol..How can you call this a beta test at all? What are we really testing or changing? The whole friggan game should be closed to finished in a closed beta and should be a game very well done and being polished. In a super polish test phase and game mechanics super fun overhaul type of way.. Nope, not today, we learned how to scam a buck with the bare minimum work, and learned to exploit the needs of a beta.."
Truth? Or attention seeking? You be the judge.
I'd imagine this guy is lying, because some of the things he says are just not true. There is PvP testing, for example. I spent all night last night in it.
I am working on a full preview, they had the test on 24/7 all weekend, and I got through the Lieutenant content and into some PvP.
Also, they lifted the limited press NDA we had. The article should appear Wednesday.
Wagon or Hatchback?
Lol +1 for adding entertainment value to the forums ^_^
Well actually - in another thread someone said this:
"...You take Star Trek Online for example you are talking about, as I just played it this afternoon for the first time and under NDA can't say nothing, but just to think that its coming out in 2 months time and what is available to test in closed beta is just mind baffling.. No PvP testing yet, no crafting implemented yet, and lots of stuff turned off.. Its not evena beta that you can play at your leisure, its like set times.. What are we testing? Not the game, the friggan game is just being developed and tweaked, lol..How can you call this a beta test at all? What are we really testing or changing? The whole friggan game should be closed to finished in a closed beta and should be a game very well done and being polished. In a super polish test phase and game mechanics super fun overhaul type of way.. Nope, not today, we learned how to scam a buck with the bare minimum work, and learned to exploit the needs of a beta.."
Truth? Or attention seeking? You be the judge.
I'd imagine this guy is lying, because some of the things he says are just not true. There is PvP testing, for example. I spent all night last night in it.
I am working on a full preview, they had the test on 24/7 all weekend, and I got through the Lieutenant content and into some PvP.
Also, they lifted the limited press NDA we had. The article should appear Wednesday.
I can't wait to read it. I'm enjoying the coverage of this game.
Hey, any word on whether or not there will be an item shop? I sure hope not. I mean, I don't mind items like Capt. Kirk's 1966 boots or something, that have no combat advantages. I just don't like paying a sub fee and then having to pay extra to get the biggest gun.
Glad their being honest up front before the release, imagine the furior if this only became known after the release! It's too bad they didn't have more development time for sure, but if the game is fun I'll play it with all its short comings. After all waiting another five or more years for another developers attempt at a Star trek attempt is too long for me to wait if this one can do the trick. Now I'm not going to give them a blank check and my patience has limits, so it better be fun at release and be dang quick to add in more content!
I'd imagine this guy is lying, because some of the things he says are just not true. There is PvP testing, for example. I spent all night last night in it.
I am working on a full preview, they had the test on 24/7 all weekend, and I got through the Lieutenant content and into some PvP.
Also, they lifted the limited press NDA we had. The article should appear Wednesday.
I can't wait to read it. I'm enjoying the coverage of this game.
Hey, any word on whether or not there will be an item shop? I sure hope not. I mean, I don't mind items like Capt. Kirk's 1966 boots or something, that have no combat advantages. I just don't like paying a sub fee and then having to pay extra to get the biggest gun.
I don't have specifics, but yes, there looks like there will be a STO Store just like the Champions Store.
However, the philosophy on the Champions Store has largely just been cosmetics or "making it easier." There was nothing gameplay related you could buy that you couldn't earn. I see no reason they wouldn't stick to that.
Good. Because many of us are after some reliable information on what the game is actually like and how it plays.
When you review your article could you please not miss steps? Be clear and include what is not included.
For example - it has been announced that the Klingons are PvP. So, please don't make unclear statements like "The PvP was fun and fast paced". That doesn't tell us who you played or who you played against?
You really need to spell it out: "I played a PvP match with 5 other Federation Captains versus a force of 4 Klingon Captains. The scenario was balanced by the Klingons having larger and more powerful ships. The Romulans were unavailable for play at this time..."
This might sound demanding (and it is) but this game is already available for sale (pre-order) and we really should have a lot more information in this case.
Ok, I played Klingon PvP ground and air missions last night for a couple hours.
On the ground the Klingons have an odd disadvantage, they cannot summon gun turrets that the federation can. Every match I played the Klingons lost.
The action is not fast paced at all. Its just like the original tv show. You run through very bland ship ala doom 1 style till you find you opponent. Once spotted you stand there and press 1. Its tab target so you cant miss. No point in running anywhere as all it does is cause you to break LOS on your target and there for give your opponent one or two more rounds of auto attack.
Thats ground combat. Auto attack, No special moves, no using skills to your advantage. No pressing other buttons. You do get a special shot every 10 seconds and you can throw a grenade every 10 seconds.
The animations are horrible. I just cannot begin to describe how truly horrible they are.
Im not trying to flame. Its Bad, Jim. I loved Star Trek when I was a kid. Like I LOVED it. This is the absolute worse game I have ever played. Ive played a lot of games.
I think this game will shine with the strict PVE crowd that doesnt like having to press a lot of buttons in combat. This is for people that like looking at the comeputer and pressing auto attack and then walking away for a few minutes.
In my opinion its a very very niche crowd.
This is a bit late, but this IS monster-play - everything about the system.
in lotro monster play has quests, territory, RAIDS (pve), and RAIDS (PVP)
this guys so full of crap
I hope Cryptic can pull this off, but to be honest I don't think they'll be able to. It's inevitable that Cryptic will piss on one portion of the player population or the other. Players will have to temper their expectations and realize that their idea of an Star Trek MMO may not be possible to attain. Personally I was looking forward to STO, but since the release and complete failure of Warhammer, another iconic IP, I'm not longer confident in the MMO genre bringing some of my favorite IPs to life. Sure it sounds great, but right now their are just too many limitations in computer hardware and software. Couple those limitations with budget constraints and time deadlines and its no longer hard to see why so many MMOs are released and then subsequently fail.
I'd imagine this guy is lying, because some of the things he says are just not true. There is PvP testing, for example. I spent all night last night in it.
I am working on a full preview, they had the test on 24/7 all weekend, and I got through the Lieutenant content and into some PvP.
Also, they lifted the limited press NDA we had. The article should appear Wednesday.
I can't wait to read it. I'm enjoying the coverage of this game.
Hey, any word on whether or not there will be an item shop? I sure hope not. I mean, I don't mind items like Capt. Kirk's 1966 boots or something, that have no combat advantages. I just don't like paying a sub fee and then having to pay extra to get the biggest gun.
I don't have specifics, but yes, there looks like there will be a STO Store just like the Champions Store.
However, the philosophy on the Champions Store has largely just been cosmetics or "making it easier." There was nothing gameplay related you could buy that you couldn't earn. I see no reason they wouldn't stick to that.
If they do go with this kind of model, I'd find some information from you folks really helpful. When there is an RMT option versus an earn ingame option, I'd like to know that the earn ingame route looks like.
Where I'm coming from is this: If the ingame option is extremely difficult, repetitive, boring, time-consuming etc., it's going to pull people towards the RMT. I'd want to know that the ingame option is doable and enjoyable to avoid paying a sub and then getting sucked into an RMT money pit. Could you guys do this kind of coverage on games with this business model?
All I can say is thank god it's not an 'Eve online', were the weak are walked over by the strong.
What I would like to now is Loot in PvP better than loot in PvE?
If so I think you will find PvE players wil try, but if PvP players aready have them this will only push them away.
As all MMO players now there are two tips of players the hard core PvP players who like killimg other players
and the PvE player who play's for a little PvP but in joy's leveling.
I can't wait to read it. I'm enjoying the coverage of this game.
Hey, any word on whether or not there will be an item shop? I sure hope not. I mean, I don't mind items like Capt. Kirk's 1966 boots or something, that have no combat advantages. I just don't like paying a sub fee and then having to pay extra to get the biggest gun.
I don't have specifics, but yes, there looks like there will be a STO Store just like the Champions Store.
However, the philosophy on the Champions Store has largely just been cosmetics or "making it easier." There was nothing gameplay related you could buy that you couldn't earn. I see no reason they wouldn't stick to that.
If they do go with this kind of model, I'd find some information from you folks really helpful. When there is an RMT option versus an earn ingame option, I'd like to know that the earn ingame route looks like.
Where I'm coming from is this: If the ingame option is extremely difficult, repetitive, boring, time-consuming etc., it's going to pull people towards the RMT. I'd want to know that the ingame option is doable and enjoyable to avoid paying a sub and then getting sucked into an RMT money pit. Could you guys do this kind of coverage on games with this business model?
How about Mass Group and/or PVP rewards that make the ingame option less grind than the solo version?
Excellent Article, this clarifies many things about the Klingons and I think it is very Positive news.
I also liked Cryptik's attitude, with this
"Will there be an advanced territory control PvP game with the Federation?"
I would say YES go for it! Start designing it, in a way Star Trek is set upon Conquest, and each faction does it differently..from the Federation to the Borg (Ferengi, Klingon, Romulan, Gorn, Tholian, Brin, Dominion Cardassians etc etc) each vies for expanding their sphere of influence via their own way...
So yes, make a big portion of Space Dynamic (while keeping the game consensual), let the players shape it through their efforts and actions.
The potential for the future is just great with the IP!