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Star Trek Online Previews: Hands-On Preview
Carolyn Koh had the chance recently to get her hands on a demo of Cryptic's Star Trek Online. Today, she recounts her impressions.
By Carolyn Koh on September 17, 2009
If they say that a picture paints a thousand words, then hands-on gameplay must be ten times that. I had interviewed Executive Producer Craig Zinkievich a number of times about Star Trek Online, and frankly, together with a number of my fellow journalists, were in a “wait and see” frame of mind about the game. Could Cryptic really take what seemed to be an old tired TV series and create a fresh gaming experience out of it? Would it appeal to fans and also to gamers who knew close to nothing about the original TV series? I had always enjoyed the Star Trek series. How would Cryptic port the essence of Star Trek into an MMO? We already knew the basics. They set it in the year 2409, 30 years after Star Trek: Nemesis to allow it to be familiar enough to fans, and yet be able to write their own story based on the Star Trek lore and canon.
At PAX this year, Cryptic was providing hands-on game-play demos. We flew a short mission in the iconic Enterprise against a few Klingon Birds of Prey, small nimble fighters that made us feel like a lumbering freighter. The experience brought out the Star Trek “fangirl” in me as phrases such as “Launch rear photon torpedoes!” and “Thrusters on full!” as well as “Divert power to rear shields” leapt to my lips but were hardily and barely suppressed (perhaps a few did escape) as we performed the functions in game. A young girl did, excitedly unabashed, as Craig turned the controls over and we got some hands-on time.
The ability to manage your ship in such a manner brought an additional layer of strategy to an otherwise straight forward 3-D space-combat game. “You can micro-manage the game if you wish,” explained Craig as he explained the controls and the UI. “There are pre-set power level bars for various distribution of the ship’s power.” We saw the Attack / Defense / Speed & Balanced presets that distributed power to shields, weapons or movement, and with clicks of the mouse on the UI representation of the ship and its shields, could divert power to shields that were taking a hammering. The UI even at this stage of design was intuitive and the controls easy to grasp and play, with WASD movement and hotbars.
We did not play alone either, as we had our full complement of bridge officers with us, each bringing his or her skills and abilities, which were accessed through their icons on a hotbar. So apart from the phasers and the front and rear photon torpedoes we had access to, we also had our officer’s skills which in combination could unleash a devastating salvo on the enemy. Especially with one that could drain the enemy shields together with another who could fire a barrage of photon torpedoes. This was especially cool if your enemies are packed close together. When a warp core goes, the resulting explosion can damage his allies. It can damage your shields too if you are too close enough.
Having dealt handily with the Klingon, we received communication that we could safely beam down planet side and we did. Seamlessly. From ship combat to ground play. We materialized on the planet and followed through on our objective. Craig described bridge officers as “MMO pets knocked to the next level.” On default, they will follow you and engage the enemy with their own weapons and specialties. They can also be micro-managed. If you want to leave a couple of them guarding an area, you can. If you want to put them on aggressive mode, you can do that as well.
;)
We were also introduced to “kits,” which are equipped by your characters – both player and bridge officers alike. Restricted to class and rank, they provided more character creation depth. Our Captain was equipped with a Martial Arts kit that came in very handy in close combat. We moved fluidly from ranged combat with phasers and laser barrages to hand-to-hand combat with our bridge officers supporting with firepower and healing.
Gamers can play together in space combat missions by flying their own ships as well as on ground missions. In ground missions, you are restricted to a certain group size (five right now) so if you have another player in your team, you will only be able to bring a total of 3 bridge officers with you, and will have to choose which ones to bring. Players can if they wish, form a full team of other Captains.
Egged on by the same young fan, Craig showed every ship she could name except for a couple that were still under development, and showed us the customizable parts. Each class of ship had preset “costume pieces” that players could apply to change their outward appearance, yet not hide their silhouette. The number of pieces were vast as Craig flipped through many, many variations of ships, much to the delight of fans surrounding us.
Often at conventions such as these as demos are done on the show floor, I take notes as a developer plays, then get some hands-on time myself. The more I’m involved in playing a game, the scarcer the notes. For Star Trek Online, I had few notes, a couple sketches of the ship’s firing arcs and shields UI and the remembered excitement of the ship-to-ship engagement. Cryptic has shown pure love in the handling of the Star Trek franchise at this point, with a tiny slice of a game that managed to touch on the beloved aspects of the vast universe that is Star Trek. All I can say now is… “Warp speed Nine! Engage!”
You can also check out four exclusive STO screenshots, here.
Interesting. Thank you.
It was cool how Craig changed gender by the end of the demonstration. Now that's customization! ;)
(And yes, I know the "she" probably referred to the fan, but I still did a double-take.)
Thanks for the article. I look forward to hearing more about this game.
I noticed she kept saying "we". We did this and we did that. I thought that was odd when relating a solo play experience. I suppose she was refering to the AI henchmen crew.
Anyway, it sounds like an ok single player game. Do you have to be online to play it?
This is slated as an MMO, not a single player game. By definition it must be played online.
"Cryptic has shown pure love in the handling of the Star Trek franchise at this point, "
What a steaming load. If the OP is working for Cryptic, she should state it at the start.
But why? Just so I can see other people's ships floating around a space station in some public hub before I head out alone to a private instance for a mission? What's the point in that?
I understand, anyone who doesn't share you opinions must be working for Cryptic.
Look, I get where you're coming from. You don't feel like Cryptic has done much with the treatment of the IP. That's cool. That's your call. Someone else doesn't share your opinion, maybe have some respect for that even if you don't happen to agree?
Well, read it again. She was practically gushing. Not very professional, IMO.
Anyone with open eyes can see Cryptic isn't being true to the IP. There is no teamwork. Trek isn't populated with captains and faceless technicians.
"We" is more inclusive to the reader.
I can see both sides to the story. As a long-time Trek fan, I don't really get how you get to dictate to me or anyone else what the IP was about.
You're pissed cause you wanted player crews and the lot. The thing is, there's still plenty of teamwork, it's just not in the form you wanted. Starfleet is FULL of Captains... One for each ship, by my count and player crews aren't going to be faceless. Just because they're NPCs, doesn't make them meaningless.
Look, I'm not asking you to change your mind. You have valid concerns and obviously this game isn't going to be what you wanted. So I suggest that you don't play it. All I'm asking you to do is have some level of respect for people who don't share your opinions. Disagree, fine. Make wild, baseless, trolling accusations... Less fine. Common courtesy.
I can see both sides to the story. As a long-time Trek fan, I don't really get how you get to dictate to me or anyone else what the IP was about.
You're pissed cause you wanted player crews and the lot. The thing is, there's still plenty of teamwork, it's just not in the form you wanted. Starfleet is FULL of Captains... One for each ship, by my count and player crews aren't going to be faceless. Just because they're NPCs, doesn't make them meaningless.
Look, I'm not asking you to change your mind. You have valid concerns and obviously this game isn't going to be what you wanted. So I suggest that you don't play it. All I'm asking you to do is have some level of respect for people who don't share your opinions. Disagree, fine. Make wild, baseless, trolling accusations... Less fine. Common courtesy.
nicely written Stradden. could use similar comments in many other threads of similar or even worse "complaining" nature.
Well, read it again. She was practically gushing. Not very professional, IMO.
Anyone with open eyes can see Cryptic isn't being true to the IP. There is no teamwork. Trek isn't populated with captains and faceless technicians.
Think of it as Starfleet Battle MMO. THAT game is populated with captains and faceless technicians.
Well, read it again. She was practically gushing. Not very professional, IMO.
Anyone with open eyes can see Cryptic isn't being true to the IP. There is no teamwork. Trek isn't populated with captains and faceless technicians.
I'm not really a Trek fan, but I went through the same thing with Star Wars Galaxies and LotRo, both of which respect their original IP's in name only. I think it's folly to expect any licensed mmo to be faithful to it's source material beyond skin-deep aesthetics (i.e. getting the ship visual models correct, using source music, etc). These games are all basically the same: kill mob, get loot, level, etc. There's no way anyone can translate that into a world as layered and complex as Star Trek and maintain said complexity.
MMO devs have repeatedly proven that they aren't capable of making a game that respects established lore. It's always "fun is greater than lore" or whatever the excuse is, but it boils down to them not having the time/money/knowledge to make an accurate translation.
Cryptic doesn't want to please hardcore Trek fans because they're dwarfed in number by casual fans. If you're expecting STO to be faithful to Star Trek, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. I'm not defending Cryptic or other companies who piss on great stories, but it's just a business reality.
I have already made that suggestion in earlier posts on the game. That's not what they are calling it though.
There are going to be lots of Trek fans who buy this game thinking they can be a science, medical, tactical, or engineering officer and work as a team with other crew members. Well, they can't.
When a lead dev says 'everyone wants to be the captain' that shows the game isn't true to the IP.
It just doesn't make sense to me that 5 captains will go down on an away mission together.
It also doesn't make sense to me that your going to have 1000's of captains piloting star ships around.
This game does not make any sense!
Would it not have been better to base the game on a space station like Deep Space 9? Something on the fringe of federation space in which you can be Klingon, Ferengi, Human, Cardacean, Romulan or Vulcans as individuals trying to make a name for themselves. You can be a merchant, smuggler, pilot, mercenary or security. Set up a shop on the station. Your own quarters (housing) in the station. Not about the big huge star ships but the small craft.
I agree that allot of people are not going to be happy with the game Cryptic is going to put out. I would have liked something else, but it looks like fun it's not the Trek we've seen from the movies and shows but I think it will be fun. Al Rivera is going to be the guy that get either ridicule and discust, or fame and graditude, which do you think.
I for one like the direction they are taking it. Having specific roles inside of a starship just wouldn't work in the long run, it’s much too complicated. Yes, this game will appeal more to the masses but that’s to be expected of any mmo.
Well I am going to have to agree with Veritas-X here. The idea of being "true" to a IP is near impossible in today's money generated gaming society. I've been coming here for years and it really disappoints me to see people going to such extreme's over a game. Liking a game does not make you a "fanboi" or disagreeing does not make you a troll. EVERYONE is entitled to a opinion, even you, lol. I agree I would have liked to have seen the game take a different direction. But hey, they have chosen this one so I'm going to just wait and see how it turns out. And Ruyn, I can understand the game does not meet your expectations but it does make sense. In fact i personally think this could well be a fun version of the game. They can only make so many people happy. Pleasing everyone is impossible and everyone has a opposing view as to how the game should play. I will say your ideas on a version of the game are quite interesting. I would indeed like to see a version done like that. For now I'll just watch the drama unfold as it appears a beta may not be far off. Till then, LIVE LONG AND PROSPER!
You do get small craft though, if you follow the STO site their are classes of ship. The Enterprise is one, the transport figate is another. Not everyone is Picard.
That said your DS9 idea presents it's own problems. I mean your esientialy setting it as one hub zone with small fish flying in and out, no one can be a starfleet cpatian in yours. Atleast with cryptics design you have a varity of what KIND of captian you are...
What gets me is this:
In mmorpgs, there's always been a level divide between players that have been around for a while (high level) and the newb just starting out. They don't interact unless someone is getting ganked...
Star Trek would have been the perfect opportunity to have every level of experience work together from the start. The guy at lvl cap would be the captain, while the newb would be the ensign. It's so easy in games for the content in games to become an overlooked sideshow on the way to the level cap.
If everyone was expected to work together from the start, mmorpgs would feel more like a game, and less like a grind.
Oh well... golden opportunity missed. It looks like the game could be fun, but I don't think it looks like something that will be satisfying to me. I was hoping they'd try to adjust the mmorpg genre to fit the Star Trek Universe instead of adjusting Star Trek to fit mmorpgs....
Sooooooo your advocating 1 ship with every postion a player working theyir way up the ranks?
What happens when your cheif enginner isn't online?
What if the captian is geting drunk irl and isn't in game? How does a ship run when the crew isnt on 24/7?
I can see both sides to the story. As a long-time Trek fan, I don't really get how you get to dictate to me or anyone else what the IP was about.
You're pissed cause you wanted player crews and the lot. The thing is, there's still plenty of teamwork, it's just not in the form you wanted. Starfleet is FULL of Captains... One for each ship, by my count and player crews aren't going to be faceless. Just because they're NPCs, doesn't make them meaningless.
Look, I'm not asking you to change your mind. You have valid concerns and obviously this game isn't going to be what you wanted. So I suggest that you don't play it. All I'm asking you to do is have some level of respect for people who don't share your opinions. Disagree, fine. Make wild, baseless, trolling accusations... Less fine. Common courtesy.
Why is it that these closed-minded and obviously ignorant posts to undermine the credibility of the writer or game are tolerated when other posters are receiving warnings for threads/posts that are an attempt to attack/combat this very thing?
I'm honestly intrigued by this.
Look people, we don't need to take every article/opinion that is written/given at this site as a personal attack. We all can either agree of disagree with what is being said, but blanket assumptions like these fail.
Man, I hate to say it, but this reads more like a fluff piece than an objective preview.
I have not been closely following this game, so I really have no preconceived thoughts on how cryptic is handling this IP. But seriously, not one, single thing to say that isn't a negative, or even a 'meh' about the experience?
Any review that is completely negative or positive, I kind of view as suspect. In that you generate revenue from advertisements for the games you review, I am not completely surprised. Especially one that will likely pay major dollars for ads when it launches. /shurg. That's how the world works, I guess.
Of course, no game is perfect, and all things are usually subjective. However,experience says that the only people who address a game as such are persons who are obligated to the game in some way shape, or form.
Not intending to troll, but this piece does feel rather Viral.
Sooooooo your advocating 1 ship with every postion a player working theyir way up the ranks?
What happens when your cheif enginner isn't online?
What if the captian is geting drunk irl and isn't in game? How does a ship run when the crew isnt on 24/7?
These are points I brought up when I first started posting about this game.
The answer is: Not all IPs are suitable for an MMORPG. I can't think of an IP less suited to solo play than Star Trek. If you can't get the grouping right (and clearly it would be a challenge to do so), then you can't do Trek right.Maybe someone has a good idea about how to make it work, but it's clear that Cryptic isn't even trying to, and what chance is there that another Star Trek MMO will be produced while this one is running?
If you can't do the IP justice, then leave it alone.
That's what internet gaming sites are about. Unfortunately.
Unbelievable! Because someone has an overly positive or exciting experience in one game they get bashed for it. Meanwhile, in another thread there are those that are bashing the writer/reviewer for his constructive criticism of that game.
I'm quickly losing all hope for the community here.
These are points I brought up when I first started posting about this game.
The answer is: Not all IPs are suitable for an MMORPG. I can't think of an IP less suited to solo play than Star Trek. If you can't get the grouping right (and clearly it would be a challenge to do so), then you can't do Trek right.Maybe someone has a good idea about how to make it work, but it's clear that Cryptic isn't even trying to, and what chance is there that another Star Trek MMO will be produced while this one is running?
If you can't do the IP justice, then leave it alone.
That's why Cryptic fucked up by their design decision. It should not have involved star ships at all but have seen a smaller focus on an individual in the star trek universe. It's the only way to make this IP work in an MMO. Instead we have Cryptic pissing on Gene Roddenberry's grave with Gene spinning.
I would think the context of this would be something to take into account as well.
The author states that she is a Trek fan. The author also states that this is her first time with hands-on to the game during a demo at PAX. She enjoyed her experience.
This isn't a thorough preview of the whole game. It's an impression given from a demo at a trade show. Generally speaking, these demos are well put together and enjoyable. She had a good time, that was what she said. Yes, I agree, if a reviewer were to write so glowingly in a review of the game, I might have my conspiracy radar out too. This, however, is a first look preview. The author had fun playing. She wrote that. I don't see the problem in context.
I believe they are taking it in a fun and interesting direction, just because your idea of where the IP should be taken isn't popular doesn't mean that what they are doing is an injustice to Star Trek.
These are points I brought up when I first started posting about this game.
The answer is: Not all IPs are suitable for an MMORPG. I can't think of an IP less suited to solo play than Star Trek. If you can't get the grouping right (and clearly it would be a challenge to do so), then you can't do Trek right.Maybe someone has a good idea about how to make it work, but it's clear that Cryptic isn't even trying to, and what chance is there that another Star Trek MMO will be produced while this one is running?
If you can't do the IP justice, then leave it alone.
That's why Cryptic fucked up by their design decision. It should not have involved star ships at all but have seen a smaller focus on an individual in the star trek universe. It's the only way to make this IP work in an MMO. Instead we have Cryptic pissing on Gene Roddenberry's grave with Gene spinning.
Oh, thank you for bestowing your wisdom upon us oh Wise One! Perhaps you should bless Cryptic with your divine wisdom and insight in an effort to save them from their obvious waste of the time, money, and resources being allotted for the development of this game.
Wow....you really need to calm down. I am a long time Star Trek fan, and I think that any Star Trek MMO should most definetly involve captaining a ship, if they had the game designed as you guys are suggesting I would not be interested in playing. And I think I stand for the vast majority of people, maybe I'm wrong but I doubt it. Cryptic knows this too, hence why the game isn't being designed like that.
Agreed. Let them demo it at a Trek convention and see what reactions they get there.
Even if the game remained only about combat. I am sure most Trek fans would prefer to be members of a flight crew on a single ship, with each player manning a vital station with individual and distinct UI displays.
Hell, take a thousand hardcore Trek fans, and they could no doubt design the interfaces and gameplay elements themselves.
Yes, but your idea of a bridge crew made up of all players just doesn't work in the mmo world right now. You would need to have a set amount of dedicated people to not only play a defined role (that may or may not see a lot of action on a mission), but also to meet up and play online at the same time at every session they wanted to play.
It sounds awesome, but in reality it just doesn't work. Your captain looses internet connection...so now everyone on the crew can't play? Even if the crew could find a random player to fill in the role of captain, what's the chances in a game where groups matter, that the crew would find somone available at the given level.
I could just see the forum posts on launch day as subscribers would complain of "forced grouping" and a game that is unfriendly towards solo players and low-levels.
I think most people would agree with your thoughts on having a bridge crew of all players. But such a game has way to many obstacles to overcome just to be a "good" game; and right now the industry just can't tackle something like that.
They still have Trek conventions? I just checked, and the last official convention was approximately 1.5 years ago.
www.startrek.com/startrek/view/community/conventions.html
And I'm not counting Comic-Con and Wonder-Con as those are typically about 20 people dressed like Klingons, which hardly constitutes a convention.
Even with a hit movie this past summer, we can all see that the Trek franchise is wavering. JJ Abrams proved a smart and well-executed Trek product can still draw crowds, but if he stopped to listen to every raving Trekkie (a diminishing crowd at best) that film would have crashed and burned. I followed the Official Star Trek Movie forums and watched as Trek disciples screamed doom and despair on just about every tidbit of information about the upcoming film. Trekkies are notorious for their blind enthusiasm and unbending internal perceptions of all things Star Trek. I don't know. Maybe some changed their minds when they saw the final product, maybe some didn't. But in the end, a lot of people went to watch the film including casual Trek fans and their friends, because it was a fun movie.
Let's hope Cryptic can pull off the same feat. We can only keep our fingers crossed it will be fun and attract loads of people. Sure they should stay true to the spirit of the IP, but fear the day they actually make a game that only appeals to a tiny group of hardcore fans. That just isn't good business. Sometimes I think Trek's biggest obstacle is it's own bullheaded fans.
Sure there have been some video game duds bearing the Star Trek name. Star Trek Online could be another disaster. But any attempt is better than none! Maybe it'll turn out to be fun. Step back and let Cryptic give it a shot. Trek's reactor core is breached and auxiliary life-support is almost depleted. Why not give Cryptic some room to maneuver? Isn't that how James T. Kirk performs best? Breaking the rules and doing something new and unexpected? Enjoy this last breath of borrowed air and wait and see.
I think it can. Each ship would basically be an instance.
Wow....you really need to calm down. I am a long time Star Trek fan, and I think that any Star Trek MMO should most definetly involve captaining a ship, if they had the game designed as you guys are suggesting I would not be interested in playing. And I think I stand for the vast majority of people, maybe I'm wrong but I doubt it. Cryptic knows this too, hence why the game isn't being designed like that.
Yeah, 500,000 captains piloting 500,000 ships...that sounds much better. What if it's 5 million?
Everyone a Captain, what the hell are you on? What the hell is Cryptic on? It's very possible to make an MMO in the Star Trek universe, but this should have been handled with more care. This game will be nothing more than a flash in the pan.
I can't speak for most Star Trek fans; I can only really speak for one: me. But I would have hated the type of setup you are proposing. It would be unwieldy and unworkable, in my opinion. I would not be interested in playing STO if it were set up that way.
If Cryptic had offered players the *option* of playing with EITHER AI or player crews, I would have been OK with that.
My best guess, however, is that, given the choice, most players would prefer AI crews (or possibly AI plus a player friend or two) to full-player crews.
Thus, I really like the direction Cryptic is taking this game.
I'm getting the impression that flashes in the pan are just what the current MMO business model is about. Enough box sales at release, a decent sub base for a year, and one expansion, then let the game coast in caretaker mode.
Why do you think so many companies move their devs to a new project shortly after release?
"We" is more inclusive to the reader.
Ahh...we understand now. We were confused before but now it makes sense to us. You have given us something to think about. We are trying to decide if we will utilize this method in our own posts. Yes, we think we will.
PS: resistance is futile.
I'm getting the impression that flashes in the pan are just what the current MMO business model is about. Enough box sales at release, a decent sub base for a year, and one expansion, then let the game coast in caretaker mode.
Why do you think so many companies move their devs to a new project shortly after release?
I agree. The only way this type of marketing will ever stop is if people stop buying. I must be getting old but pre ordering any PC game is risky at best and life time subs before release? Im not sure if people are just so desperate for a good MMO that they just throw money at them or what but doing so will only breed more of the same.
It's interesting to see people proposing a game in which you are NOT a star ship captain. I could see the marketing department trying to sell that to people: "Set Your Phasers On Scrub! You too can start out as a Star Fleet Ensign! Scrub those decks. Lick your superior's boots."
Or maybe, "Time to get out your red shirt! The captain has a job for you."
Seriously, who comes home from work and wants to relive the tedium of real life? I certainly do not need a military social simulator when I'm trying to relax. Of course I want to be a star ship captain!
You're right, because 1 million hunters, 1 million rogues, 1 million priests, all these are oh so realistic right? Please stop trying to bring this pointless statistical realism into a GAME. It's made to be fun. Also remember that they divide the captains into sub groups, basically classes, of tactical, science, and engineering. Also remember that the game while not having different servers will most likely have different instanced zones of locations, with a certian max number of ships per instance, so it's not going to be ridiculously over crowded. People don't play games for realism, they play games for fun and to be something that they can't be in real life, for example, captain of a spaceship.
Uh huh. So all those legions of Spock, Scotty, McCoy, Data, Chakotay, etc. fans secretly prefer Kirk, Picard, and Janeway? I don't think so.
It's interesting to see people proposing a game in which you are NOT a star ship captain. I could see the marketing department trying to sell that to people: "Set Your Phasers On Scrub! You too can start out as a Star Fleet Ensign! Scrub those decks. Lick your superior's boots."
Or maybe, "Time to get out your red shirt! The captain has a job for you."
Seriously, who comes home from work and wants to relive the tedium of real life? I certainly do not need a military social simulator when I'm trying to relax. Of course I want to be a star ship captain!
That's the thing. You don't even need to limit yourself into star fleet. Why isn't it just ok to be in the Star Trek Universe?
I want to be Lord Harcourt Fenton Mudd, myself. I don't think I would make as many Alices, though.
You're right, because 1 million hunters, 1 million rogues, 1 million priests, all these are oh so realistic right? Please stop trying to bring this pointless statistical realism into a GAME. It's made to be fun. Also remember that they divide the captains into sub groups, basically classes, of tactical, science, and engineering. Also remember that the game while not having different servers will most likely have different instanced zones of locations, with a certian max number of ships per instance, so it's not going to be ridiculously over crowded. People don't play games for realism, they play games for fun and to be something that they can't be in real life, for example, captain of a spaceship.
Oh you must feel real special being a captain. Wait a second, everyone is a captain. So what's so special about it?
I only have a couple things to say.
First, it's not, "Launch rear photon torpedoes." It's, "Aft torpedoes, fire!"
And it's not, "Warp speed 9, engauge." It's, "Warp 9, engauge."
Pretender...
LOL. It makes us sound like Gollum, yes it does (my precious). We likes it.
There is so much more to Trek than just combat, thinking that the game is going to be so narrow in focus is starting to make me rather sad.
Randomly-generated planets aren't going to give us adventures from the various series. What a shame. I'm starting to get a Warhammer Online vibe from this, and it makes me ill, as I actually care about this IP.
Everyone is jumping the gun before they have played the game. Think of how Dragon Age Origins is being marketed; As some sort of 3rd person perspective action game. Seen the trailer for the 360 on the live marketplace? Hundreds of people will buy it un-aware that it is a very deep and conversation oriented rpg. Will Some of them either bother reading the story? They will click past dialog and get back to the action.
STO may very well have the elements in its game that you feel is also a meaningful part of the star trek universe as a whole. Cryptic may very well feel like marketing that sort of message will not appeal to the masses. Because it is not us, MMORPG readers, who are going to make the company money. We are indeed the niche group of individuals. Its my dad who sees the name and says "hey i remember star trek, that could be cool" who will make them their money. Those very same people who have made the Nintendo Wii the most successful console out right now.
It's not being a captain that makes you special in STO, it's your ship and crew, and I'd prefer having fun and being a 'non-special' captain to taking commands from someone I don't know or like any day of the week.
Edit: Grammar
It's safe to say the MMORPG.com forum users can sometimes be a rough crowd, which sparks fierce debate.
*ignores all the hate wars going on* I think her experience sounded rather exciting I can't wait to get into STO to beta test. It'll be nice to have micromanagement over my crew and the ship. I usually duo or trio with my two friends and not many others so itll be nice we can just pick who's going to bring what and meet up. I'm guessing but I'm betting some sort of PVP or guild like related activities are going to be included that require you to actually fight as a group without your crew members. It'd be silly to make a game that you never have to group ... but people always tend to jump to the extreme without any real proof that its better to group then to use just your crew members.
You're entertained by simplicity and accessibility, others want something deeper. Nothing wrong with that.
I'll try out the game, but it doesn't excite me as much as a more ambitious design might.
I really need to stop reading stuff about STO. Everything I read just makes me mad. They're clearly not developing a Star Trek game, they're just making a game with a Star Trek skin.
I was about to post the same thing....except with the proper spelling of engage! (Just kidding!)
Debate is good since it hammers out the pro's and cons of the varying arguments. Problem is it sounds like the creative design element in this game should have undergone MORE debate. Instead I believe a good opportunity with the IP has been wasted and the core of the game flawed.
Sounds pretty fun, as a long time Trek fan i have no issues with the way they are taking this game. After all they are making a game, not a simulator.
i think some here are looking for a Star Trek Simulator, let me know when you find it, i'll be enjoying this game when it comes out. =)
The fact that I can write my own captain's log makes me feel special, I did something like this in Eve when I was lost in wormhole space, check it out;
Captain Zerox Iin Day 10, 01:02 Location: Sylvia Moon I
My wormhole has closed and now me and my crew are stuck here,
some of the crew has lost hope of ever getting home and have started
to jump out of the cargo bay in hopes of committing suicide
but they forget that they will instantly go into cargo containers and will have to wait
two hours before the can loses oxygen and implodes.....yeah that's a slow death
i'd rather not think about.
My top Astrometrics lieutenant has gone crazy due to the overwhemlming amount of
signatures he has to go through to find a wormhole home and I fear he might become
colour blind after staring at that screen for so long. I'm here at the astrometrics table running
through each sig trying to make sense out of the crazy cluster of signatures that litter
this solar sytem..... I'm getting bored and have taken to naming each planet after the crew members
whose containers have popped...."Pchsssh!"..... Oh... there goes Gary...
Ahh...we understand now. We were confused before but now it makes sense to us. You have given us something to think about. We are trying to decide if we will utilize this method in our own posts. Yes, we think we will.
PS: resistance is futile.
Or it could be that she said "we" because she was including the other journalists previewing the game, or she felt like she was speaking for herself and her NPC crew.
It was cool when people used to be able to read.
And wasn't there a General Order some time ago setting the "speed limit" for routine travel to Warp 5?
And wasn't there a General Order some time ago setting the "speed limit" for routine travel to Warp 5?
The drawback with warp drive prior to 2370 has been rectified so that speed limit was short lived.
or she felt like she was speaking for herself and her NPC crew.
It was cool when people used to be able to read.
It was cool wasn't it?
Well, read it again. She was practically gushing. Not very professional, IMO.
Anyone with open eyes can see Cryptic isn't being true to the IP. There is no teamwork. Trek isn't populated with captains and faceless technicians.
You get to be a red-shirt on my crew. I'll log in from time to time to see how you're doing. In the mean time, keep scrubbing the floors.
Poly-Player manned ships is an idea that will never work in a normal MMORPG. Even ww2online has trouble with 2 people in one destroyer. "Shoot Guns" and "Navigate Ship" are the two jobs. What's a third person supposed to do? The 10th person?
You're right, because 1 million hunters, 1 million rogues, 1 million priests, all these are oh so realistic right? Please stop trying to bring this pointless statistical realism into a GAME. It's made to be fun. Also remember that they divide the captains into sub groups, basically classes, of tactical, science, and engineering. Also remember that the game while not having different servers will most likely have different instanced zones of locations, with a certian max number of ships per instance, so it's not going to be ridiculously over crowded. People don't play games for realism, they play games for fun and to be something that they can't be in real life, for example, captain of a spaceship.
That's a very inaccurate analogy. It would be like WoW only having 1 class. Imagine WoW only having hunters.
Honestly, the further into development this game gets the less interesting it sounds. If everyone is a captain and given their own ship then what are the end-game goals? I'm not sure who their intended audience is going to be but it doesn't sounds like its MMO gamers.
I don't really get the discussion of having an all player crew. I cannot see how that would work logistically. all players need to be captains of a ship (and all captains, from reading) have different specialties to make them different) but for the sake of arguement lets say not all players are Captains and you are a medical officer instead. Are you part of a dedicated crew? If so, does your captain and 1st officer need to be on to play, as well as your engineer, etc? If they are not what do you do, hitch a ride on another ship for a day?
Let's say that hypothetical player crews are not dedicated to a ship (not really following the lore either), how would an Engineer get to go space faring if no captain has open crew slots? Is there a massive outcry of "Looking for Ship" ? After a while of looking would it turn into "Will work on your ship for food"?
It seems like they are taking the logical approach by having all players be Captains with a specialty and having NPC officers (That I hope are not nameless and faceless and grow with the ship you are on or tranfer to later).
I am looking forward to the beta so I can find out for myself but I don't think they can be entirely true to the show and still have a viable MMO experience.
You get to be a red-shirt on my crew. I'll log in from time to time to see how you're doing. In the mean time, keep scrubbing the floors.
Poly-Player manned ships is an idea that will never work in a normal MMORPG. Even ww2online has trouble with 2 people in one destroyer. "Shoot Guns" and "Navigate Ship" are the two jobs. What's a third person supposed to do? The 10th person?
This. My first article covered this, it's very hard to have player run crews. Sounds easy on paper, but I can't see a way that's fun to make that happen. When it comes to Star Trek Online, Cryptic is offering more than any other developer has come close offering in any other Trek related game, period.
Will it have flaws? Yes.
Will it cover all of Star Trek's massages? No
Will everyone like the direction? No.
If your upset with the direction its taking, then by all means this game may not be for you. I've said before, you will miss out on a game that is looking very promising by any MMO standard.
I personally enjoyed the article.
You're entertained by simplicity and accessibility, others want something deeper. Nothing wrong with that.
I'll try out the game, but it doesn't excite me as much as a more ambitious design might.
Don't say deeper when you mean "more tedious".
Being a science officer for 10 hours straight waiting for something to scan might appeal to some people.
We call them masochists. Those wishing to inflict that kind of boredom and tedium on others are called sadists.
This is supposed to be a game, not a Star Trek Real Time Simulator. Note how the shows skip vast amounts of time, even from one scene to the next? Imagine to "play" that time through. That's what the "Deeper" game play folks here want.
Vast amounts of boredom...
Science Officer's Log:
Startdate 45254.5.... still bored out of my mind. Damn captain had to walk his dogs.
Startdate 45254.7.... Captain still not online, can't do anything except watch youtube videos.
Startdate 45254.9.... Captain finally logged in, but now the first officer and the tactical officer have to go...
Startdate 45255.1.... Tried to do a mission without half the bridge crew, a single Tribble overtook the ship and we had to all respawn on a smaller older ship that the captain had in his inventory, but now there's only room for one helmsman so Timmy can't play with our group anymore....
Startdate 45254.5.... Captain offline again, booooorreedddd.... Where's that Tribble....
OMG thats a really good observation hahahahaha.
Now I'm certain....FLUFF JOB!! lol
That is possibly the kindest way this could have possibly been put.
To all the folks that are looking for very complicated, team-based interaction in the Trek universe, please go here, seriously:
www.trekmush.org/
Unfortunately, TrekMUSE seems to be down and gone (www.tos.net). That was also an incredible system.
No they're not graphical, but they do give you what you want. Due to the complexity of the systems in both games, I can't even fathom a translation to a graphical MMO.
That is possibly the kindest way this could have possibly been put.
I agree with that statement!
This game is a disaster waiting to happen.
They have totally missed an opportunity - but they don't seem to understand that.
They will though.. 3 months after release... they will.
He's not telling you what you mean to say, he's saying that what your describing is not fun.
Sorry, not fun for the vast majority of people, there we go.
He's not telling you what you mean to say, he's saying that what your describing is not fun.
Sorry, not fun for the vast majority of people, there we go.
I have no issue with him saying that it's not fun for him, but if you read his post, that's not how he phrased it and I didn't appreciate the tone.
I'm well aware that sandbox/simulation preferences are in the minority. I even said earlier in the thread that I was going to check out STO regardless. For me though, I would be more enthused if it were a more ambitious design. If people want to equate ambitious with boring, no worries, but don't put words in my mouth.
I'm sorry that I'm the one who has to say this, but this isn't Star Trek, it's Star Trek the MMO. There will be things that many would have done differently, but Cryptic is the one with the license. I think at this point you have to live with the inevitable. You either support the game by continuing to hype it up and comment on posts making it an active community, or you abandon it, vote a low hype and leave the community to become an abandoned wasteland of possibilities. (Potential is what we tend to say about MMO's that never lived up to expectations btw).
Anyway, unless venting in every STO thread makes your life better, I'd suggest you let it go. It is what it is, they're not changing it for now.
I'm not impressed with 5 captains beaming down to the surface either (especially without the protection of a security officer (rofl)), but I understand it's an MMO and that will happen from time-to-time because everyone wants to be a jedi.. I mean captain. :)
He's not telling you what you mean to say, he's saying that what your describing is not fun.
Sorry, not fun for the vast majority of people, there we go.
Either way, looking at his forum history, he really has nothing good to say about anything. I really hope that changes. Maybe hes a Klingon.
where's that upcoming MMOs to be watched list
ahh there we go
*STO scratched*
sigh
someday - - - - - it WILL happen (but frikkin hurry up - i'm 52)
I would just like to thank the author of this article! It had substance, emotion, and purpose! This may be the first time ever that actual game footage has diminished my enthusiasm for an MMO, or that an article has renewed it. It's usually the other way around. Somehow I feel that you truly did present us with "ten times" a thousand words in your brief review. Well done, and thank you, Carolyn Koh!
I understand, anyone who doesn't share you opinions must be working for Cryptic.
Look, I get where you're coming from. You don't feel like Cryptic has done much with the treatment of the IP. That's cool. That's your call. Someone else doesn't share your opinion, maybe have some respect for that even if you don't happen to agree?
Totally agree a persons opinion does not a fact make and I too am impressed with what they've done so far, more so than I thought I would be.
I just want to say to the OP....
What Star Trek did you watch as a kid that told you a Bird of Prey is a fighter?
Sorry I have read your statement and I understand that you arent saying they are, but you felt like they were, it was just the wording.
I dont think I can remember a time in the ST line did the captain ever give the speed as "Warp speed XX" It was "Warp factor XX." or "Warp XX"
But perhaps in the books they did, who knows?
Sorry to come across like that, but little things are driving me nuts today because its been a LONG day. I am still waiting for a decent Star Trek game, I am not getting my hopes up for this. The best Star Trek game I ever played was Star Fleet Battles, at least the ships felt right.
I'm not really a Trek fan, but I went through the same thing with Star Wars Galaxies and LotRo, both of which respect their original IP's in name only. I think it's folly to expect any licensed mmo to be faithful to it's source material beyond skin-deep aesthetics (i.e. getting the ship visual models correct, using source music, etc). These games are all basically the same: kill mob, get loot, level, etc. There's no way anyone can translate that into a world as layered and complex as Star Trek and maintain said complexity.
MMO devs have repeatedly proven that they aren't capable of making a game that respects established lore. It's always "fun is greater than lore" or whatever the excuse is, but it boils down to them not having the time/money/knowledge to make an accurate translation.
Cryptic doesn't want to please hardcore Trek fans because they're dwarfed in number by casual fans. If you're expecting STO to be faithful to Star Trek, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. I'm not defending Cryptic or other companies who piss on great stories, but it's just a business reality.
Look I think as fans we really need to get away from thinking WE have the right to determine what an IP's lore is "about" you mention LOTRO which from what I've seen is true to the lore of what it is based off of which is the Lord Of The Rings movies not the hobbit or any other Tolkien work as far as I'm concerned, again SWG a game I played from launch and listened to so many moan about it's loose ways with the "lore" especially when it came to Jedi but if I recall right there are definitely Jedi back in the Star Wars universe within five years of Return of The Jedi (based off the fact that the novels are official lore) Luke was training Jedi and there were countless numbers of students that he had as I recall. The bottom line is the people truly responsible for the "lore" are trusting it to these companies to do as they see fit which in my own eyes makes their interpritation of the lore much more factual and important than even my own opinion of the lore.
I don't want to speak for her, but the way it was written, I got the impression that the author meant 'fighter' not in the sense of the fighter starship classification, but in the sense of being a warship.
I don't want to speak for her, but the way it was written, I got the impression that the author meant 'fighter' not in the sense of the fighter starship classification, but in the sense of being a warship.
I thought Stradden was pretty clear when stated the Bird of Prey moved like a fighter in comparison to the Enterprise class ship she was in, but op makes it pretty clear that he just wanted to come and nitpick anyway.
You missed "Thrusters on full!"
"Full impulse" would work. Did any ship in the series even have thrusters as such? :)
I got "fluff piece" from the article which is unusual since most of her work seems pretty even keel. Based on that, I'm guessing she really is/was excited about it. I would have preferred a more factual approach than opinion myself, but it *was* a first impressions AND hands-on piece so she gets some slack in my book.
No, LotRO is based on the Lord of the Rings novels. They legally could not use material from the films. That's why nothing at all looks like it does in the films, but their own interpretation of the books. They would have faced serious consequences otherwise.
I'm surprised by the number of people that want a "bridge commander" style game. Yeah, it might be great for *large* guilds or people that have a bunch of friends that can be on at the same time every day or so. But that's just not the case for the majority of players. And how would you level up your player when nobody is on? Will the medical tech push the same buttons over and over or sit in his room and read a padd for a couple hours? Or would he jump into the captain's chair and take the "guild hall" (aka ship) out for a spin? That's not realistic either.
Plus, the bridge concept would instantly label the game as hardcore only. Because you would almost certainly need those players. And that almost certainly means no pugs. Yeah, everyone would die because the pilot is an immature jerk that flys into every radioactive cloud that he sees. Great fun. Or everyone dies because of lag, or someone knocks on the door. In a game like that, you're all essentially controlling one character. In other mmos at least you don't die because the other people in your group accidently run off a cliff while simply travelling *to* the instance portal.
Plus, if you make it bridge commander trek the only people looking out the viewscreen would be the captain and *maybe* the pilot. Everyone else is looking at a readout or the warp core for an hour. Maybe some people want to do that, but I don't. I'd rather watch the ships get fired upon.
And Bridge commander PvP would almost certainly be a bigger pain.
The way they're handling space combat looks great. Instead of being a bridge commander style simulation, they are trying to recapture what its like to watch the show. Most of the time, your ship will be on its own. Or you can team up/rendezvous with another ship. Or 20 ships can battle the borg. This way everyone has their character/ship and a character for ground combat. And its quite obvious that they expect you to fill out a specific role in ground combat. Even though you're a "captain" of your ship, when you're grouped with others you will be an engineer, or a doctor, science officer or the "captain" or whatever, while some really, really unfortunate soul is the red shirt. ;)
I'm not really a Trek fan, but I went through the same thing with Star Wars Galaxies and LotRo, both of which respect their original IP's in name only. I think it's folly to expect any licensed mmo to be faithful to it's source material beyond skin-deep aesthetics (i.e. getting the ship visual models correct, using source music, etc). These games are all basically the same: kill mob, get loot, level, etc. There's no way anyone can translate that into a world as layered and complex as Star Trek and maintain said complexity.
MMO devs have repeatedly proven that they aren't capable of making a game that respects established lore. It's always "fun is greater than lore" or whatever the excuse is, but it boils down to them not having the time/money/knowledge to make an accurate translation.
Cryptic doesn't want to please hardcore Trek fans because they're dwarfed in number by casual fans. If you're expecting STO to be faithful to Star Trek, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. I'm not defending Cryptic or other companies who piss on great stories, but it's just a business reality.
Look I think as fans we really need to get away from thinking WE have the right to determine what an IP's lore is "about" you mention LOTRO which from what I've seen is true to the lore of what it is based off of which is the Lord Of The Rings movies not the hobbit or any other Tolkien work as far as I'm concerned, again SWG a game I played from launch and listened to so many moan about it's loose ways with the "lore" especially when it came to Jedi but if I recall right there are definitely Jedi back in the Star Wars universe within five years of Return of The Jedi (based off the fact that the novels are official lore) Luke was training Jedi and there were countless numbers of students that he had as I recall. The bottom line is the people truly responsible for the "lore" are trusting it to these companies to do as they see fit which in my own eyes makes their interpritation of the lore much more factual and important than even my own opinion of the lore.
Couple things here. First off LotRo is explicitly not tied to Jackson's film adaptations but rather to Tolkien's source novels. Turbine is very up front about their acquisition of the license coming through Zaentz and having nothing to do with the New Line Films, The Hobbit, The Silmarillion, or any of the Tolkien's books other than the three LotR volumes.
You mention that from what you have seen it is true to the lore, and that's fine, but you haven't seen a lot of it or you wouldn't have that opinion. Have you read the novels? There are a laundry list of departures in the game: dragons, runekeepers, hobbit warriors, proliferating elves, just off the top of my head. There are scores of other gaffes. I'm not talking about things that Turbine has invented to fill in content that Tolkien didn't talk about, but direct contradictions to his established work.
SWG is another case in point. Unfortunately you are not remembering correctly, as the Jedi were very nearly extinct during the timeframe in which SWG is set. There are other lore problems besides Jedi: aliens in the imperial military, melee users blocking blaster bolts with swords, the planet of Dathomir being accessible, the list goes on and on.
These are all concessions to gameplay, which is what I meant earlier when I said mmorpg devs are incapable of being faithful to the source material because of the medium in which they work and it's limitations.
Your assertation that fans need to stop determining the lore is completely off base. The lore is what it is, fans have no part of determining it, they simply read/watch it. The SW universe has certain conventions, many of which SWG doesn't follow. Tolkien's books have certain conventions, many of which LotRo doesn't follow. It has absolutely nothing to do with fans, it has to do with these companies being unwilling, or unable, to stick to the facts established by eariler authors.
Man, some of you take this stuff way to serious! I'm glad I never watched much TV. Personally, lore = bore. Make a fun game and let's call it a day. I could care less about how closely this follows that or how that ties into this. Just make a great game that the majority will have fun playing, profit and support the title. All I want to do is have some FUN. And from the looks of it, this may fit the bill.
Anyone that has played SWG pre-NGE can easily counter the silly argument about anyone saying that being captain is the only fun class and that no one wants to be a security officer, engineer, pilot at the helm, cook or whatever.
Not everyone likes to be a full combat class. Not everyone would want to be a captain on the ship.
Back in good old SWG there were so many people that didn't give a flying crock about combat.
There were people that enjoyed being pure politicians and build and maintain the whole guild city, decorate the halls and ejoyed the heck out of it.
There were people that were hanging around in the Capital Cities all day long, changing people's appearances as Image Designers or buffing people up in cantina's as Entertainers. Not to mention that people just enjoyed being a Doc.
Back then, people knew what the meaning of MMORPG actually stood for. Knew what socialising actually ment. Back then you actually had true Server communities!
It was exactly what made good old SWG such a great game. Despite it's bugs and issues.
People could be anything they wanted to be.
That's why STO will just be Epic FAIL with no longetivity at all. People will be bored of the game within months!
Nothing is more boring then to go Pew Pew Pew in a spaceship day in day out. Or do repetitive ground missions with NPC crews on random maps a la CoX.
Or do you think it's fun to do ground missions with 4 other captains on your side?? What a complete joke!! Ever seen ANY Star Trek episode where 5 captains ONLY beam to a planet surface for a mission??
You don't have to be a hardcore Trekkie (and I am sertainly not one) to see that Cryptic has absolutely no clue about what Star Trek really is!
We got already a pleatora of Star Trek Single player and mutliplayer Space Shooter games out there! Why go play this one and pay a monthly fee?? And probably with a Cash shop attached to it as well!
That's why that person that wrote that Single Player MMO topic in General Discussion hitted the nail on the head!
All this Solo crap is what eventually is going to kill and ruin the genre. People become more and more ANTI-social by the day.
Just have a look at the average forum or ingame chat in how people communicate with eachother these days. If you can call racism, hostility, flaming, L337 spam communicating that is.
Cheers
So while the makers of Puzzle Pirates have managed to implement player crews and making it all interesting Cryptic can not?
I have never been so quick getting into friendly contact with other players as when playing PP.
so .........
people are going to hate this game because they cant be 'non Comm' roles and not everyone wants to fly Spaceships?
I am a HUGE fan Of ST (not a die hard trekkie though) and I have to say I am liking what I am hearing about teh control aspect of the game so far
Considering the game is still (technically) in Alpha designs and some concepts could be subject to trade
I mean.. I know another game that you ONLY get to captain a ship but I spend all my time being a stock market manipulator
and its been going for ooohhh 5 years now and its (technically) Version 2.0 of the game that was launched, and its still undergoing refinement, and still returns a nice profit
hmm what is that game
oh yes EvE
I think the reason so many people have negative thoughts about this game is because they want to Fully Immerse themselves in the game
Sadly this will not happen anytime soon due to a number of reason
Just how exciting can you make Medical/Engineering/Ops?
Would you ever be able to emply enough people to keep churning out new content while returning a profit from subscribers?
sadly not, Cryptic seem to be doing a good job with THEIR vision of the game, to all those hating it, teh solution is simple
Dont play it
I mean if you find McDonalds makes you feel sick everytime you eat it then you dont keep eating there do you?
ROFL!
You can't in no way compare STO with EVE Online.
First, EVE Online is a Sandbox game. The freedom you have in that game, right from the start back in 2003.... you will never find in STO.
Maybe you should actually read Cryptic's latest articles. It's only PEW PEW PEW in Space or PEW PEW PEW on randomly created maps on ground a la CoX. All as a Captain ONLY!
That's it!
Seriously, EVE Online had so much more to offer already back in 2003. It's just silly even trying to compare these 2 games.
I feel it necessary to point out that STO is actually more like Bridge Commander than you seem to think. In both, players are only captains, backed up by NPC bridge crew members. In Bridge Commander, it is impossible for players to be on the same ship. Perhaps it's a different game you're thinking of? Or perhaps you're just speaking of the concept of a bridge group, and befuddling me by the use of an actual game title?
There isn't any reason why a multiplayer bridge concept couldn't work. The same AI that are already going into STO could fill out the bridge crew when players aren't available. There's also no reason that players couldn't move between positions, so that if the captain disconnected, someone else could take over. And yes, despite claims to the contrary, there are players that would like to play engineer, medical, whatever. I personally spent two years in SWG, from launch to just after the NGE, playing a doctor in the hospitals on Naboo. And I wasn't the only one. Many players would likely want to be captain, but I couldn't see any reason why a fully crewed ship (which is just a group in any other MMO) couldn't be successful.
For those that like to declare that this game is a travesty or is making Gene roll over in his grave, I feel your pain, but I think you're being far too dramatic, and quite possibly missing the real point. I was entirely enraptured in the original Perpetual idea for the game back in 2005, which was the Trek simulator concept. I was also quite upset when PE "dumbed" it down, and I wasn't at all happy when Cryptic took over and basically continued the same design. But this design isn't offensive to the IP at all. I've had to painfully learn that lesson with both this game and the new movie. It's taken a lot of introspection to realize this. Trek is about IDIC, and any real Trekkie/Trekker knows what IDIC is. There is room for this game design in the Star Trek universe. And once game designers are able to spend the time and money necessary, we'll get our Trek simulator.
I guarantee that Cryptic is under a strict schedule by CBS/Paramount to get this game out in a very specific period of time. It may even have been CBS/Paramount that demanded Cryptic continue with the PE concept of the game, for the sake of time.
One of the crew on standby? Are you suggesting that while a crew plays a mission, that one player doesn't get involved in the action, that they run training missions while the rest of the group performs the mission? I don't think too many people would sign up for that role. I wouldn't pay a monthly fee to be second-string. Unless you mean one of the other 5 crew members doing the mission. In that case it could work, but If this is truly skill based; that fill-in will not come close to matching the missing player; and will handicap the entire crew and the mission. Not much fun there.
Your comment about launch day for STO is silly. If on launch day, someone actually logs in thinking they are going to be a science officer and part of a player crew; then they obviously just bought the game simply because it had "Star Trek" written on the box and never read the back of the box or did any kind of research before dropping the $50+ on the game. That person will look rather unintelligent posting on the forum...or just one big troll.
Ship instances would work, I totally agree. They worked well on Star Wars Galaxies. But I think if we are all constantly in an instance with only our crew, we'll lose that MMO feel.
The way I'm looking at STO is not that every player will be a captain. I'm looking at it more as every player will be a crew. Is that going to be everyone's cup of tea...probably not. Am I still going to give the game a shot when they offer a trial...absolutely.
Wow what a clueless post. You still don't get it do you. What you are asking for is 2015 development cycle at best. As if they have the development money to do such. Perhaps we will see a Star Trek like you envision someday. It is most certainly completely unpractical to do so today.
Anyone in this thread complaining about the NPC crew needs to come down out the clouds and face the facts. Changing to avatar based crew would be a huge project and then you have the major problem that no game wants to have. Players spending inordinate amounts of time looking for crew for their starship. That does not exclude the fact that the vast majority of players will want to be captain and then you have the problem of how you are going to get other players to follow the captains orders. You most certainly can't put them in the brig. Then you have the huge project of dreaming up things for all the other professions to do during flight, good luck with that. Beyond an ocassional space battle or an away mission, what is the doc going to do, twiddle his thumbs?
Basically making all ship officers into avatars opens up a huge can of worms. I could post a lot more issues with it than I have above. What this boils down to is that the officer avatar advocates need to stop spewing nonsense. In all the threads on the topic I have not seen one person with a reasonable approach to solving any of these issues. Until someone does all I see is a lot of hot air with no substance behind it.
This is a game people, players expect to have fun doing it. Posters like the above poster need to think about all these huge issues before going on a whimsical rant that has nothing to do with reality.
All the above poster does is completely ignore the issues posed by his complaints.
The only one that is completely clueless is you.
Did you actually read my whole post? I bet you didn't.
Did you actually read what others have been writing? I bet you didn't.
No one said it should be forced Player crews! No one!!
If you cannot get a player crew together or someone suddenly disconnects, you can fill the gap with a NPC crew member.
Pretty much the same as other MMO's like Guild Wars have been doing for years already.
And back in SWG I saw plenty of people running around who were not combat orriented!!! Plenty!
You vastly understimate the MMO community and make non-founded assumptions (like so many here) that the vast majority or even everyone wants to be a captain and a captain only! WRONG!!
Cheers
"The only one that is completely clueless is you.
Did you actually read my whole post? I bet you didn't.
Did you actually read what others have been writing? I bet you didn't.
No one said it should be forced Player crews! No one!!
If you cannot get a player crew together or someone suddenly disconnects, you can fill the gap with a NPC crew member.
Pretty much the same as other MMO's like Guild Wars have been doing for years already.
And back in SWG I saw plenty of people running around who were not combat orriented!!! Plenty!
You vastly understimate the MMO community and make non-founded assumptions (like so many here) that the vast majority or even everyone wants to be a captain and a captain only! WRONG!!"
Of course I read all that nonsense, it was a real chore. I especially liked where you invoked the SWG parts as if that has anything to do with this game. SWG was a sandbox game, this one most certainly is not. Like trying to compare apples and oranges. I get it you want a sandbox game, this most certainly is not one.
And again where are solutions to all the issues I raised. As usual you conveniently ignore them. You want to debate, put some solutions on the table, instead of whimsical flights of fancy.
As a Pre-NGE SWG vet myself, I can totally agree that there are people out there that could take a Star Trek sandbox game and enjoy spending their days as a Chief Medical Officer or something like that (I would be one of them).
Problem is, as much as some of us loved that old SWG game; it wasn't the success that companies want, and it's been said that SWG subscriptions were declining in the days leading up to the infamous CU and then the NGE. So I think most companies looking to make a buck aren't going to take a franchise and make a sandbox game out of them.
That being said, given the fanbase, if any franchise could succeed as a sandbox...it would be Star Trek; but I think to satisfy everyone's sandbox needs for that game would be a daunting task for any developer.
Hopefully now that the STO folks are showing game elements, all of them focussing on combat; they will now show us some of the community elements of the game as well as other mission types such as exploration and scientific missions. I think if they can sell those two elements; then they might settle some of the fears that this game is going to be all combat and no substance.
I can see both sides to the story. As a long-time Trek fan, I don't really get how you get to dictate to me or anyone else what the IP was about.
You're pissed cause you wanted player crews and the lot. The thing is, there's still plenty of teamwork, it's just not in the form you wanted. Starfleet is FULL of Captains... One for each ship, by my count and player crews aren't going to be faceless. Just because they're NPCs, doesn't make them meaningless.
Look, I'm not asking you to change your mind. You have valid concerns and obviously this game isn't going to be what you wanted. So I suggest that you don't play it. All I'm asking you to do is have some level of respect for people who don't share your opinions. Disagree, fine. Make wild, baseless, trolling accusations... Less fine. Common courtesy.
Yes, but he is right, and you are not.
This is the third attempt at using this IP with the same format, essentially a re-skined Earth and beyond DIKU ...in space.
People didn't go for it the last time, and, we are talking about cryptic here. They had no intention of doing anything but a format game.
It won't end well.
It's because people like you, and pretty much the whole MMO industry doesn't have any imagination anymore.
It's all run by suits, who never played a game in their life, dictating how the games should be and dictate how we should play their games, instead of doing research first in what the MMO gamers actually want!
Really, I could write a complete wall of text here in form a complete design document in how they could have done STO.
But I keep it to some highlighted ideas.
First, the big FAIL of Cryptic and pretty much the most you... is seeing Captain as a class! WRONG! It's a rank! Just like Officers are a rank!
If any of you (and I challenge the suits at Cryptic as well) actually watched the different Star Trek series, then you could come to the following conclusion:
Original Star Trek: Captain James T. Kirk was more like the macho combat guy with the rank of Captain.
Next Generation: Captain L. Picard was more like the politican guy with the rank of Captain.
Voyager: Captain Catherine Janeway was extremely well educated in various Science subjects with the rank of Captain.
Do you see what I am getting at?
Everyone should be on the same level. Specialised in a class. Wich can be a combat class (security for example), science class (engineer, science, etc) or explorer/political or support (medic, etc) class. You name it. No ranks attached!
And if you want a themepark like approach, then you can make each class levelbased wich you can level up. No big deal here.
Ranks should be incorporated within a Guild System. Wich in Star Trek you could call it Ship Crews.
Wich means that the guild leader (Ship crew leader) will be the rank captain. Just a rank... nothing more. And the officers having officer rank. Again.. just a rank... nothing more. From gameplay perspective.
Then the various ship classes could be tied to guild progression (guild levels, whatever).
Guilds that would like to be crafting oriented would progress their guild through the Science vessel ranks to get the best of the best Science Vessel.
Guilds that would be more combat focussed would progress their guild through the combat vessel ranks to get the best of the best combat vessel.
etc. etc.
A ship doesn't need a captain to fly. So from gameplay perspective and concern about difficulty getting player crew together. Any assigned guild officer could fill in. (just like in the TV series when the captain was on an away mission or sleeping/resting in thier quarters).
Just like that away missions don't need to have a captain. Again... if you watched the many different TV series, then you would see that the captain doesn't participate on away missions most of the time.
For the more solo oriented players that don't want to be in a guild... there could be seperate progression paths (a path wich even guild members could pursue if they don't feel like hanging around with the guild for a bit) to go for small crew scout type vessels wich you could fill with NPC crews like in Guild Wars and like what Cryptic is doing now. Or take a couple friends (players) along for more difficult missions.
Again. You see where I am getting at? Here are just some ideas and examples right out of head.
Then you can see how much FAIL STO actually is. How much Single Player focussed that whole game is! It's just another rush job a la Champions Online that need to be shoved out of the door with as little as possible development time. Lure people into Lifetime and 6-month subs together with the box sales... to rake in as much money as possible as quickly as possible, without any clear longterm focus. If everyone is gone in a year. They already made enough cash. Rince and repeat with the next game.
Cheers
Well, read it again. She was practically gushing. Not very professional, IMO.
Anyone with open eyes can see Cryptic isn't being true to the IP. There is no teamwork. Trek isn't populated with captains and faceless technicians.
It's called enthusiasm. It's what happens when people like what they see and it connects with them. If the 'gushing' is honest, it tells me something about that person's impression of the game. That's why I read the article. Information received.
It makes plenty of sense. Just not YOUR sense. Be specific.
Are you really going to tell me you don't think there were 1000's of starships in Star Fleet?
Wow.... for a sci-fi fan, you seem to have a very limited scope of imagination.
I have no desire to play the type of game Cryptic is making here...It could make for a semi-fun, single-player starship combat game... ala StarFleet Command (although it sounds like alot of the strategy elements from that game would be vastly watered down in Cryptics version).... but in no way does it resemble anything I'd view as an RPG...let alone an MMORPG.
Basicaly it's a role-playing game where you only get to play one role... Captain. That's like an ice-cream shop that only offers on flavor....vanilla. It's lame.
It's also a multi-player game that offers limited opportunities for interaction with other players.... what's the point of having it multi-player then? You could do the exact same thing as a single-player game....maybe with a LAN option added on.
The arguements against multi-player crews are bogus.
What do you do when you want to fly a ship and you have no helmsman with you?? The same thing you do in every other single MMO in existance when you want to do a Raid, Group Quest, or Difficult Encounter and have no healer..... You ADVERTISE for one!
There is no brain surgery required here...... and no need to reinvent the wheel. Most MMO's have no problem dealing with the dichotemy between content that requires Teamwork and content that can be run solo.
There need be no shortage of things in a Star Trek universe that could be done as a solo player....
Aside from non-combat things like research and crafting... there could be any amount of planet/starbase based missions that were solo-able. There is also every bit of plausability for (small) ships were designed for solo operations.... runabouts, warpshuttles, fighters, small traders, maybe even fleet cutters or corvettes.
When you want to do Group Based Content... you grab a CAPITAL SHIP and a crew to fly it. Just like when you want to go RAIDING in every other MMO.
What happens if you are flying a CAPITAL SHIP and a player on a key bridge position goes link dead? The SAME EXACT thing that happens in EVERY OTHER MMO when you are doing Group/RAID content and your Main Tank, Main Healer or Main DPS goes link dead.... 1) Have another party member cover thier role to compensate.... 2) Wait for them to return if your in-between encounters 3) Find another player of the appropriate class to take thier spot IF they don't return... 4) If your in the middle of a furball when it happens.... WIPE.
The exact same things happen in every other MMO that has any Group/RAID content.
If you wanted to be SUPER freindly to solo content.... you could even have the exact same setup that Cryptic does now... and just add in the ABILITY to replace an NPC Bridge Crew with another Player.... STO doesn't even allow the OPTION to do that.
Heck Star Trek even offers the perfect rationalization to get players from 1 ship/starbase/planet etc...to another in a matter of seconds..... TRANSPORTERS.
As for the preview...it did come off kinda light/"gushy"....... ok for a short preview piece, I guess..... but when I read articles about games... I tend to look for pieces that try to offer a bit more of a distanced objective perspective..... and drill down into greater depth of how some of the actual mechanics of the product work.... along with both pro's and con's.
This piece did sound a bit light on that sort of thing.
Are you really going to tell me you don't think there were 1000's of starships in Star Fleet?
Wow.... for a sci-fi fan, you seem to have a very limited scope of imagination.
No, I don't think there were, actually. When the Borg attacked Earth in 'First Contact', Starfleet didn't field more what - a dozen or so? Thousands? I don't think so.
Star Trek has thousands of ships, so what is so odd about there being thousands of captains? Are you guys seriously so delusional that you think the playerbase would be of such a number where everyone will play a role in a ship? Who in the hell is going to want to play a game as an ensign? ship's cook? communications officer? Nearly everyone will want to control the ships! I think they are going about it very realistically, and you will have these "faceless technicians" because who wants to play the lowly technician???
No, I don't think there were, actually. When the Borg attacked Earth in 'First Contact', Starfleet didn't field more what - a dozen or so? Thousands? I don't think so.
Surprise attack. They fielded what was locally available. Space is big. Maintaining a presence in Federation space would necessarily require hundreds of ships at least. Also, how many of the ships in range were rated warships? Not science or medical vessels? Transports?
Then of course, you have to bend a little at the altar of creative license. Do I think it'd be more fun to be able to crew positions? Depends on how they implemented it, I suppose. But I was looking forward to engineering when that seemed like a possibility. Still, whether this approach feels like Trek at the end of the day is something you're not really going to be able to judge until it's in front of you.
No, I don't think there were, actually. When the Borg attacked Earth in 'First Contact', Starfleet didn't field more what - a dozen or so? Thousands? I don't think so.
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=76216
Here's another thread on this very topic. My opinion is that Starfleet is big...very big. You have to remember that the ships are spread out across the galaxy. The ships in First Contact were only the ones that could get to Earth in time. Plus remember that there must be a bunch of medical and science vessels as well.
The only difference between this and what we'll see in STO is that all of Starfleet's going to be bunched in one little piece of the galaxy since we can't go everywhere.
I do.
My job in keeping the ship functional could be just as important if not just as exciting as the one controling ship combat, if fleshed out deeper than "pushing buttons." At least thats what 43 years of the franchiese has indicated.
Are you really going to tell me you don't think there were 1000's of starships in Star Fleet?
Wow.... for a sci-fi fan, you seem to have a very limited scope of imagination.
What if its 100 thousand? 500,000? 1 million? Face it, my idea that was thought up in 2 minutes would make for a far better MMO than this piece of crap and it doesn't fuck with the Star Trek lore. That's all right though as I won't be playing it. I'm sure a lot of people won't be playing it.
Edit: Who is the creative designer behind this game? I would like to know so I can stay away from any of his/her future projects.
What if its 100 thousand? 500,000? 1 million? Face it, my idea that was thought up in 2 minutes would make for a far better MMO than this piece of crap and it doesn't fuck with the Star Trek lore. That's all right though as I won't be playing it. I'm sure a lot of people won't be playing it.
Yes, but the amount of devolopment needed to make your game is incredible. You guys have to realize, development costs money...lots of money. Any company that acquires a license like Star Trek isn't going to pump a ton of money into development. They want to put out a product for as cost effective as possible and then make a sizable profit out of it. None of these companies with franchises like LOTR, Star Wars, or Star Trek are looking at small profits here.
What I'm sure Cryptic did was sit down and say "ok, what do we want to do....and then what can we do" while also trying to make deadlines, because not making deadlines means spending more money and not making it.
Business sucks, but that's kind of how things work out.
What if its 100 thousand? 500,000? 1 million? Face it, my idea that was thought up in 2 minutes would make for a far better MMO than this piece of crap and it doesn't fuck with the Star Trek lore. That's all right though as I won't be playing it. I'm sure a lot of people won't be playing it.
Yes, but the amount of devolopment needed to make your game is incredible. You guys have to realize, development costs money...lots of money. Any company that acquires a license like Star Trek isn't going to pump a ton of money into development. They want to put out a product for as cost effective as possible and then make a sizable profit out of it. None of these companies with franchises like LOTR, Star Wars, or Star Trek are looking at small profits here.
What I'm sure Cryptic did was sit down and say "ok, what do we want to do....and then what can we do" while also trying to make deadlines, because not making deadlines means spending more money and not making it.
Business sucks, but that's kind of how things work out.
Well businesses that want to be the "next best thing" have to put in the extra work. Go that extra mile. Not some stripped down version with a nice cover.
Yes, but the amount of devolopment needed to make your game is incredible. You guys have to realize, development costs money...lots of money. Any company that acquires a license like Star Trek isn't going to pump a ton of money into development. They want to put out a product for as cost effective as possible and then make a sizable profit out of it. None of these companies with franchises like LOTR, Star Wars, or Star Trek are looking at small profits here.
What I'm sure Cryptic did was sit down and say "ok, what do we want to do....and then what can we do" while also trying to make deadlines, because not making deadlines means spending more money and not making it.
Business sucks, but that's kind of how things work out.
Well businesses that want to be the "next best thing" have to put in the extra work. Go that extra mile. Not some stripped down version with a nice cover.
Exactly! And that unfortunately requires risk. And a company that just acquired a big-name franchise isn't going to take much risk with it. Sadly, that is the state of MMOs right now. I guess we need one of two things to happen: a) someone out there has to take a really big gamble financially to advance the industry, or b) technology has to advance far enough that those risks aren't quite as severe.
Janitor #127....no, probably not. However a Trek Role-Playing game that doesn't offer you the ABILITY to play the role of Spock, Scotty, McCoy, Chekov, Sulu, Uhura..... your ONLY choice is Kirk..... I'd call that pretty lame.
Yes, but the amount of devolopment needed to make your game is incredible. You guys have to realize, development costs money...lots of money. Any company that acquires a license like Star Trek isn't going to pump a ton of money into development. They want to put out a product for as cost effective as possible and then make a sizable profit out of it. None of these companies with franchises like LOTR, Star Wars, or Star Trek are looking at small profits here.
What I'm sure Cryptic did was sit down and say "ok, what do we want to do....and then what can we do" while also trying to make deadlines, because not making deadlines means spending more money and not making it.
Business sucks, but that's kind of how things work out.
Well businesses that want to be the "next best thing" have to put in the extra work. Go that extra mile. Not some stripped down version with a nice cover.
Exactly! And that unfortunately requires risk. And a company that just acquired a big-name franchise isn't going to take much risk with it. Sadly, that is the state of MMOs right now. I guess we need one of two things to happen: a) someone out there has to take a really big gamble financially to advance the industry, or b) technology has to advance far enough that those risks aren't quite as severe.
You forgot option C)..... which I think we may be getting pretty close to now....
C) A Market so flooded with run of the mill games based off of large IP's that the ONLY way you can get a big enough return to justify the large investment required is to do something significant to set yourself apart from your competition in order to capture a large segment of the market share.
I wonder how the game would fare if you could "dual role": (i) play as a captain for the main portion of the game as currently designed but (ii) also play as a specialized crew member (science officer, medical officer, etc.) in other parts of the game, which could possibly set up the way PvP is set up in a game like WoW.
Thus, you go ahead and play your captain, but you could put yourself in a queue/LFG for player-crew mission "XYZ" as an engineer. Then, when an opening comes up/group forms, depending on the mission you specified, whoosh! You are whisked away to join a team of like-minded crew members, with the party leader as the designated "captain." In other words, instead of being whisked to a PvP battleground, you are whisked to a player-crew mission/series of missions (equivalent to running a dungeon in a typical MMO). This is just a bit of "thinking out loud here."
Personally, I like the way Cryptic is going with STO, but I can also see the point of the critics: five-captain away teams seems a bit ... absurd to me.
Cryptic could then add additional "Player Crew" versus "I Am the Captain" content as expansions or patches depending on how well that content is received. Maybe even allow characters to use different versions of their primary avatar: one being your engineer back as an ensign and the other being your engineer now promoted to captain.
From a logic standpoint, you could view the player-crew missions and content as your character's "history" and training. It'd mean bouncing back and forth in time, of course, but, hey, this is Star Trek, after all. :)
What if its 100 thousand? 500,000? 1 million? Face it, my idea that was thought up in 2 minutes would make for a far better MMO than this piece of crap and it doesn't fuck with the Star Trek lore. That's all right though as I won't be playing it. I'm sure a lot of people won't be playing it.
Yes, but the amount of devolopment needed to make your game is incredible. You guys have to realize, development costs money...lots of money. Any company that acquires a license like Star Trek isn't going to pump a ton of money into development. They want to put out a product for as cost effective as possible and then make a sizable profit out of it. None of these companies with franchises like LOTR, Star Wars, or Star Trek are looking at small profits here.
What I'm sure Cryptic did was sit down and say "ok, what do we want to do....and then what can we do" while also trying to make deadlines, because not making deadlines means spending more money and not making it.
Business sucks, but that's kind of how things work out.
Every feature/function that you put in a product costs development money. Every feature/function that you put in also has a chance to differentiate your product from it's competition and gain subscribers. Cryptic could have chosen to not put ALOT of features/functions in their game by that same token.... having multiple factions(e.g. Klingons) cost extra development time... having PvP in addition to PvE costs development time, etc...
Alot of people are just not happy with the decisions Cryptic made. Personaly I think the real problem lies even deeper then that... and comes down to how they conceptualized the game in thier design process. I don't think they really realized that a Space or Sci-Fi MMO is fundementaly a different animal then a Fantasy MMO. In thier design meetings they were still thinking of things in terms of Fantasy MMO's.... so what you end up with (in my view) is something that feels like a standard fantasy MMO wraped up in a Star Trek skin.
By way of illustrating, look at the terms they used when the Dev's talked about reverse or lateral movement in starship combat...... they called it "kiting" and "straffing". Those very terms illustrate where thier heads were at.... those are terms that belong to fantasy MMO's like WOW.... anyone that actualy had thier heads wraped around ship vs ship combat would not be thinking "kiting" when thinking about moving backwards.... they'd be thinking REVERSE GEAR.
The very terminology they use to describe things in the game, I think illustrates the core problem..... when designing they couldn't get thier heads out of thinking of things in the terms of how things work in traditional fantasy MMO's.
It amazes me how some people just can't get over the fact the game isn't going to cater to their ideals of what STO is suppose to be. Think about this a minute and you will realize that if the game did indeed go in the direction you want the rest of us no longer have the game we desire. When this game was projected to be the bridge crew type game, i looked and decided the game was not for me and left. What i didn't do is whine over the fact the game didn't meet my standards as the GAME wasn't being designed for that standard. What right do I have to demand they meet my standard over the desires of the people that want it diffently? If you don't like the fact their isn't a bridge crew, guess what, this game isn't for YOU!!! It's impolite to try and enforce your will on the rest of us that want this game the way the designers are making it. Suggesting minor improvements is one thing but changing to meet your standards is the same thing SOE did to us when they changed Star Wars galaxies to its present form. You didn't like that then so why try and do that to the fans of this game?
For me this games has a hugh potential for fun as there are two sides with totally different ideals (Federation/Klingon), and the strife between them should be intense. Too many people seem to forget STO is not only about the Federation and limit their thinking to just that one side, open your mind people and think of the possibilities! I really like the direction the game is heading and like how the exploration will open up with instant places on planets so each captain may discover things differently from others. I get bored doing the same canned missions that everyone else did also so refreshing to think I might be able to do and see something most others won't!
I really hope you STO fans of a bridge crew type MMo get your chance in the future. But trashing this one will do nothing to promote that, on the contary it might do harm to further that goal as designers might shy away from this IP as hopeless!
Buegar,
I get what you are saying. Naturaly everyone is going to advocate for things they like...and against things that they don't. I don't think you need worry though.... at this stage I highly doubt that Cryptic would make major design changes in response to anything those of us with negative opinions post on the forums. The game is going to be released largely the way it is already designed. What you see here is nothing different the kind of fan talk you might see on a sports forum when some people think a teams management made some really bad draft/contract choices...or a coach made a horrible call.
Some of us just think Cryptic made some really poor design choices with the game....and are voicing our opinions about it..... I doubt most people here think there is even a prayer Cryptic will change stuff because of thier posts.
I get your point about personal preferences..... and everyone DOES have different tastes. Although I think there are issues here that go deeper then just that. There are things that just fit certain genre's/mediums better then others.
For instance, some-one could make an MMO based around Snipers/Sharpshooters. However if they decided to make it Tab'd targeting, no stealth and most of the action was melee based involving players standing 2 feet from each other slugging it out.... that might make for an extremely enjoyable game for some folks....but it WOULDN'T fit the IP very well. That's kinda what I see going on with STO.
It fits the IP perfectly, just not what you want the IP to be. There's a huge difference there that too many whiners fail to see.
It fits the IP perfectly, just not what you want the IP to be. There's a huge difference there that too many whiners fail to see.
It doesn't fit the IP perfectly Captain. It spits in Gene Roddenberry's face Captain. Open your eyes Captain.
"It doesn't fit the IP perfectly Captain. It spits in Gene Roddenberry's face Captain. Open your eyes Captain."
I think you are assuming too much as this isn't about "the voyages of the Starship Enterprise" or the federation for that matter. This is about a game based off the Star Trek world, which is much more than just Gene's vision whatever that may of been. As a game it should put fun in the fore front. I don't want to play a game of rehashing the past but to help model the future! As others have commented making an IP trying to catch the past is futile and a waste of time. Think outside your limited Federation box to all the stories not told involving the other races not associated with the federation, to a future uncertain, with totally new experiences not yet written (including by Gene)! A bridge crew life limits what could be experienced and makes each player a slave to circumstances such as can I get a job today on a starship, or am I doomed to boredom on a Starbase. Forced grouping hasn't worked since EQ and I doubt it will ever work again. To be viable a game needs to work in both solo and group mode, and its real hard to see how that would be possible with the Bridge crew type gameplay. This game is so much superior to that limited vision that its hard for me to see why they would about face and ruin what they already accomplished. So once again I hope they ignore those wanting to ruin that vision for something that would lack fun in every way!
I've never said that I wanted a bridge crew. I think that's a horrible idea and just about as bad as 500,000 captains. They could have used the Star Trek Universe and focused the game on the lore within and focus on the smaller scale goings on. Be a Klingon, Cardacean, Romulan etc and have factional wars in the neutral zone. It just seemed to me like Cryptic sold themselves and this game short.
No matter what you think about STARTREK..you need to look into whos behind it. What are they doing NOW!
Call them up.. I did "well Cryptic is a very new but small company" .. there words more than once..
All I am saying is.. wait till AFTER....AFTER launch day watch it for about a week then if you like it buy it.. even if you get in to beta..DONT BUY IT because of that!. Learn from others. LOL this is the INTERNET and we all know EVERYONE tells the TRUTH? NOT!
The DEVS (look to the past for and at ANY MMO) will sell, tell you ANYTHING and EVERYTHING you want to here its the "its coming in a expansion or a update down the road"
All MMO's at launch LOOK super and can only get better.. lol we heard that how many times? So what one GOT better? Well?
now I just have to LEARN from my own words haha
It doesn't fit the IP perfectly Captain. It spits in Gene Roddenberry's face Captain. Open your eyes Captain.
It spits in Roddenberry's face? I think that's stretching things a bit much. I'm all for debating Cryptic's decision making regarding Star Trek, but come on now...that's a bit much.
"All I am saying is.. wait till AFTER....AFTER launch day watch it for about a week then if you like it buy it.. even if you get in to beta..DONT BUY IT because of that!. Learn from others. LOL this is the INTERNET and we all know EVERYONE tells the TRUTH? NOT!"
Both good and bad advise as the boards tend to be negative at the start of every game introduced. After all those that enjoy the game rarely come on the boards as they are having too much fun, those that are having trouble or hated the game from the start come to the boards to complain and gloat on how bad it is (debateable as that might be). If you have a weak stomach for games with bugs the advise is good as you should give it a few months to be what it can be. i still like playing it for myself as I found things that bothered other people don't bother me and other things that don't bother them bother me.
I agree this game does not fit with Star Trek at all. Its been a long time since I last watched it, but from what I remember the ship battles were very short, and not very flashy. It always seemed to be more about the interaction of the crew and how they handled the crisis.
Although I'm not going to say that having everyone be a captain is a bad choice, but they are really going to have to work at making the combat engaging and fun. Anything short of having the most advanced AI in any MMO is probably gonna lead to a disaster.
The fewer people buy the game, the sooner it dies. The sooner it dies, the better the chance someone will try again. They could hardly do a worse job with the IP.
I don't know if the IP license is exclusive or not, but I'm guessing that there is a virtual nil chance of an alternate Trek MMO while STO is running.
"The fewer people buy the game, the sooner it dies. The sooner it dies, the better the chance someone will try again. They could hardly do a worse job with the IP.
I don't know if the IP license is exclusive or not, but I'm guessing that there is a virtual nil chance of an alternate Trek MMO while STO is running."
Of course that is your opinion and mine is the opposite. Unfortunately for you even bad MMo's (of course bad in whos opinion)rarely seem to die, so chances are good this will be around for a good long while. It is my opinion that this will be a hugh success as it will have plenty of action and other fun things to do, and i have real doubts a Star trek based on the disgrunted Star trekkes vision would attract more than a small minority. No matter how vocal you guys are, there really is just a minority of players who want things like player controlled bridge crews. Most people are looking for the fun factor with the atmosphere of the Star Trek world, but not something that becomes tedious and bores us to death. I still hope you find that game but trashing this version will not forward your quest and is petty since you know it isn't going to be what you want. Please don't mess up the game many of us want just because this isn't the game you want!
Pre-NGE SWG was a broken empty game of macro'd characters.
Like the "Doctor" in naboo, how often was he actually PLAYING the game and not having his macros do it for him?
Or the dancer's in the cantina's?
Sure it was a botter's heaven, but actually PLAYING the game? Not so much. Most of the real beta-testers begged for the game to be delayed because it wasn't even close to being finished: No jedi at all, no creature handler, no droid engineer, broken skills, what combat skills they did have were basically all the same except the range component was different (melee/short/medium/long), /yawn. People respecing all the time because of the FOTM... what a nightmare of crap game design.
Sure, some people loved being able to be a doctor one day, and the next a dancer (after 24 hours of macroing). That's not a good game in most people's books.
Who wants to be the red-shirt ensign? Do you volunteer? Or the astro-physics guy? Communications officer?
Those jobs have tasks that could be fun for a very brief moment in time, but for hours on end? No.
But maybe Cryptic and I are wrong. Maybe there's a way to make those jobs fun for hours on end.
If so, and you seem to think so, please explain how you would do so in a detailed manner. Maybe Cryptic will read it and change directions.
Sooooooo your advocating 1 ship with every postion a player working theyir way up the ranks?
What happens when your cheif enginner isn't online?
What if the captian is geting drunk irl and isn't in game? How does a ship run when the crew isnt on 24/7?
Good questions, and I really don't know, but I had some ideas...
After getting through SF Academy (or equivalent), players could be assigned or request to be assigned to a certain class of ship, or a specific ship in particular, or could even choose to be assigned at random.
Players would specialize in running a specific area of the ship, and would share their duties with a number of other players who perform the same tasks. When one was offline, another would take over. If several were online, they could work together to make things more efficient, or they could fill in in a different area of the ship, at an empty post. (Maybe they would take turns on bridge duty?) They could even have a sort of "lfg" option where ships could request Starfleet to send in a player for a mission (a transport ship would "magically" come out of warp, and transport the player straight to the ship)
The cool thing is, that instead of having "guilds", the ships could replace them. The ship would be a community in and of itself.
I love the idea of sending several players down for the away team, while the crew battles above the planet. If the ship lost the players would have to make due until the ship returned.
So many cool possibilities they could have gone for.
I have said this before but:
You have more crew on the ship than needed for the vital stations. IF you have more online than needed, they can serve in backup roles (Manning a particular phaser bank, for example), train some skill they are learning, or run simulations on the holo deck.
Captain`s chair goes to the highest ranking officer on board if the actual captain is unavailable. You have to have a minimum number of vital crew to start a mission. Any lost during the mission are replaced by the backups or by NPCs (Ensign Patsy).
BTW, I think a crew working together to level up and earn a better ship would be very cool.
Exactly... Too bad that we would need this game to fail, and someone else with the same ideas as us to take over the IP to get this.
We could always hope for a SWG style CU that actually improves the game by chaging it to something like this... (I'm joking. Please no SWG CU-style updates...)
Seriously though, I hope the game does well, and is fun. A lot of people work really hard on these, and it's a shame when they fail.
Do you actually....play MMOs?
Or just "inform" everyone about what "you think"?
For the Trek IP, yes, but for a new game with its own IP, the door is wide open. I`d like it to be in the Trek universe, but I`d rather play a multi-crewed game in a brand new setting than what STO is going to be.
Dear trolls: unless you are actually succesful MMORPG developers, please refrain from comments like "this and that should have been made differently".
Thank you.
For the rest of us: Let's wait for beta and judge the game when we can actually experience it.
You have no idea what a troll is, and you`re welcome.
Trekkies are notorious for hating anything and everything Star Trek. They ran their own franchise into the ground and an outsider had to step in and save it (JJ Abrams).
you can't really win...
When... i give up... you can't make any MMO player happy. end off.... you are simply old women, NOT gamers.
an MMO "Gamer" is like a Mac Gamer, figments of your imagination who do not actually exist. More myth than substance. You're just a player.... deal with it.
Me, i'm a gamer... pass the game here i'll try it, i may not like it, but i won't bitch or bash it until i get the chance to play it.
Alright look, I liked the article on the emotional side, since it was a preview and not a review. It told me what the writer intended to tell me.
As to the rest of the argument, go have a look at the game's website. Being in command of a vessel affords you the honorific 'Captain' but you start as a lieutenant and rank up from there. Also, you pick your class: Science, Tactical, Engineering and so on which then determines what sort of skills are available to you, and what kits you can have. It also determines what ship types are available, like a Science and medical character wont be commanding a Defiant class war ship.
All that out of the way, I have a solution, which has been suggested by many, which should(but realistically wouldn't) end this pointless debate about grouping mechanics for those who like grouping. SWG solved this with Jump to Lightspeed already.
See, there were player on board(PoB) ships like the YT-1300 that had fully rendered interiors and you could leave the controls and wander around your ship. you could also set permissions for a friend who was on board to take the controls. Likewise the turrets could be manned by players and ship repairs could be done on the fly by engineers. There was even a feature where certain special commands could be done by the player co-pilot.
Unfortunately it doesn't sound like any of the STO ships will even have interiors, or the ability to PoB. If they did implement those simple mechanics then you'd be able to to easily switch out your NPC bridge crew and have friends/guild mates take their stations and issue commands/manuevres and so on as their player type (science, engineering, tactical) allowed. Having space skill sets and ground skill sets just as SWG did. And for those of us sociopaths who prefer either NPC "henchmen" or only grouping with our wives, or don't want to have our ships at the mercy of some random elite speak doofus, we wouldn't be required to join anyone's crew or wait until our ship had enough players on board in order to play the game.
It would also give us private 'hub' for things like guild parties and such like I used to host on my Sorosuub yacht in SWG. :D
Although what I have seen of Star Trek Online so far looks good as far as graphics go, the features mentioned in this article seem good and I am really big Star Trek fan, it's very likely that I wouldn't touch this game within it's first year of launch.
The reason for this is that I recently paid $65.99 CDN to be a Chapions Online - post launch - Beta tester. CO was and is still so far from proper launch completetion that Cryptic should have given it another 3-4 months before selling it to the general public. for this reason I think that Cryptic may have alienated a large number of potential customers for future game releases. In the case of Star Trek Online they won't likely have this problem due to the existing fan base for Star Trek, but it would be a very good customer service move to learn from their mistake in launching CO too soon and try to launch Star Trek a much more complete and well tested game.
Star Trek is awesome but at this stage of the game I just don't have alot of faith in Cryptic's ability to please customers.
From what I hear from the mods here and beta testers, they are going to make the same mistake as SWG. Paramount is holding Cryptic to a "concrete" launch window and demanding results ASAP. Lucas Arts pretty much did the same thing with only a few allowances. As I understand, Paramount rushed to get another developer after P2 dropped the ball and part of the deal was getting this marketable in a limited period. In time it might be a decent game (although not having depth beyond combat) but it will have another rocky start like CO.
Yeah the beta testers for Champions online keep talking GREAT the game was.. now look at it and most of them are gone. So to touch StarTrek would be very foolish at launch. To wait a few months would be the wise thing. Call them up.. they will tell you how SMALL they are..