Originally posted by marcusfx

Let's take a look at World of Warcraft "endgame." First, let's make the assumption that you 1) do NOT have a guild or friends who will carry you through raid content in your quest greens/blues; 2) you'll follow the intended progression of level 80 dungeons in normal, then heroic dungeons, and THEN starting raiding for Tier 7 and up gear.

From my experience, it takes approximately 3-5 hours per day for approximately 10-14 days running heroic dungeons to be considered "geared" for raiding. "Geared" as in a raiding guild MAY invite you depending on how high their standards are (You know those people who expect you to be in full Tier 7.5 or better to do Heroic Utgarde Keep, or to have a Twilight Vanquisher title to fill in on a 10 man Naxx guild run.)

So let's say that comes out to 30 to 70 hours after dinging 80 to be in 75% item level 200 epics and the rest blues. You've gotten the best possible gear you can get BEFORE raiding.

But let's say instead of spending those 30-70 hours in World of Warcraft you get a part-time job instead, say at $7.50/hour. And you make, in the equivalent time period spent gearing up for raiding, between $225-525.

YOU STILL DON'T HAVE THE BEST GEAR IN THE GAME AFTER 30-70 hours at the level cap. How many hours will you spend in 10 and 25 man Naxx and Ulduar before you do? 100 hours? 200 hours? More?

A 60% speed ground mount in Runes of Magic costs approximately $10. 65% is about $20. Both can be used at level 1.

I consider an epic flying mount to be a necessity in World of Warcraft. At level 70 pre-LK, I farmed for 4 days straight for 10-12 hours a day to get the 5,200g for the epic flyer. Now tell me how much WoW's epic flyer costs compared to RoM fastest ground mount!

Good points marcusfx.  Unfortunately people don't look at it in those terms because they get too hung up on the guy that spent $1000 to max out his character as soon as he hit 50.  Then they run crying and whinning on the forums that the game is too cash shop heavy and expensive because they want to be all coolz0r like "that dude" in their first month of playing.

Thank your for steering me clear of this game.

Originally posted by kaltam

thanks bananajoe fo posting this, after reading your post and all the arguments posted against you, I've determined it's not worth it. thanks for saving me time. Peace!

lol you forgot all the special  etc take your number divide by 4 and your close to the real number player pay

yes if you want  it yesterday you l pay full price but not a lot are that mutch in a hurry lol

Originally posted by Sixpax

Originally posted by adamthebrave

Originally posted by Sixpax

To me this is more of an issue with the weak state of PvP in RoM than how costly it is for end-game.  Personally I get my PvP fix elsewhere as historically MMORPG PvP isn't done very well (the code tries to level the playing field between the skilled and the non-skilled too much IMO).

Back on topic... sure it takes a very long time to max out your character if you don't want to spend an insane amount of cash to do it overnight... and that's exactly how it should be.  If you want to be "done" with the game in a matter of weeks, then by all means open your wallet and voila, instant maxed-out-done-with-the-game character.  Is that the point though?  To max out as fast as humanly possible?  If that's what you think, then I believe you've missed what an MMORPG is all about.  I'm personally thankful that it does take a long time so I'm not stuck with nothing more to shoot for other than rerolling and starting the process all over.

 

One reason that it takes so long is that you need to be in a group of decently CS'd players to get your gear.  You can farm MA with a group wearing mostly unmodded armor and decent weapons, but Cyclops calls for tanks and healers with some good mods.  A cyclops run without modded gear can go over about as well as an Abby run at level 22:  possible but slow and painful.

 

So you mod your AH/quest gear to start farming MA, then mod the MA gear to start farming Cyclops.  Sounds like the same normal progression you have in any other MMORPG to me.  Sure it takes awhile to do that, but I remember having to farm Kara in WoW for weeks before we had the gear to move on to Gruul, and then doing Gruul for several more weeks before moving on to the other 25-mans.  I don't see any difference between this and a P2P.

 

exactly,

wow is a farmhouse

wintergrasp,arena,wotlk raid

the top piece dont drop fast id say its about same pace as rom

and when you finally get last piece new content will be added in wow in september so your back to farming

its just gona be something else (no more ulduar `)

Originally posted by WillClarke

Im just curious, what can you did with t8 what you cannot do with t7?  Or is it just for PvP

I've been thinking about starting for a while but was waiting for a topic like this first, since most item mall games require a certain amount of money to be spent.

on average most player could get away with t6 ,probably same with rom

its often for bragin right

only the very elite will use t8 to its full potential ,the rest have it more for show

a t6 is way easyer to get then a t8

Originally posted by mackdawg19

Originally posted by bboneheadd

 

 

Oh please, T8 Weapon with Purified stones... no one in the game has that. I'm so sick of people saying how much it would coast to play this game. what this post says is how much it would coast to get the perfect gear, to do the endgame instance all you need is lvl 50 char and have your epic quest done the reward from that quest can be sold for 600 diamonds if not more which is enough to buy some modded gear and start doing MA or Clops and you can go on from here.

Also you don't have to farm daily's to get arcane charges to tier up your weapon. Once your char hits lvl 10 you get 10 free arcane after that just buy fusion stones from merchant which coast 2k gold and start making mana stones once the charges are up make a new char and repeat. In a day you can make your wep/armour tier 5 easy.

People are trying to scare new playerrs from joining the game with all this bullshit atleast explain fully how everything works not just how much it would coast if you were to buy non spoiled gear and clean mods and make tier 8 wep with pure fusion stones

 

Sorry buddy, but your extremely wrong. Go jump on Osha PvE. Plenty of people have a bare minimum of tier6 gear on. And there are people with tier8 weapons in game. The reward from the quest is not worth 600 diamonds either, were did you get that from? This game is purely made for cash shop player after level 50, it really is. Take it from someone who played this game since its conception as RA in Korea, and it's rebirth with Frogster with a complete name change. I also was a CB tester. It's not easy to get tier5 gear if you have no clue how, and it's not something most people will try to do in a game. Atleast not in one day's time. ANd you can't even get pass +4 in this game unless you seriously win the lottery and your better off getting struck by lightning as they say. Try playing the game, being level 50/50, and playing in a well established guild, you will find out why this game is a huge drain. PvP is even worse, which is why I quit playing there. And if you ever by the fusion stones from the vendor, your wasting your cash, seriously. That almost makes me chuckle a  little bit. 

Put it this way, this game is more of a timesink then any game I've played recently. You would be better off playing World of Warcraft, paying a monthly fee and getting 80. You would have atleast a chance, and won't have to worry about waiting for months and months. And no, I don't play World of Warcraft. Now this game is decent for a f2p, but there's no need to straight out lie about it. It cost to play for a reason. Doesn't make it bad, just costly. And realy really really time consuming.

Tier 8 is easy and many people have it but I doubt a lot of people on your server  have t8 gear with PURE STONES, the quest reward is worth 600 dias if not more +35 dex and 2 +16 attri clean mods. Havent spent a cent on this game and done kalin and gonna start with TT soon, one of the top people on my serv has not spent a cent on his char either and he is soloing world bosses so no your extremly wrong this game can be played and enjoyed without cash shop and without extreme grinding  

Originally posted by Dryden23

Originally posted by bboneheadd

Originally posted by bananajoe

I found an interesting thread which tells the problems you will get if you just want to play this as a "free" mmorpg without investing any money into their ingame shop. Yes it is possible to play this game without money and lot of the people around will tell you this, but most dont know how the game looks like if you go this route. I only can advice to think about the class you choose if you dont want to invest any cash, some classes are heavily dependant on good gear. As a beginner you should know how long it would take to gain the same equipment like someone just buy from the cash shop.

I also did add some hints for gameplay to to this thread that beginners get important informations which you often dont read at the beginning.

 

This article describes some interesting aspects about the current state:

forum.us.runesofmagic.com/showthread.php

 

* Clean end-game gear costs $266.70US minimum
* Investment equals ~2 years playing a subscription-based game
* Farming enough daily tokens would take 165 days
* Some suggestions to lower cost without impacting Frogster's bottom line too much.

 

* 14 items to be upgraded with six desirable stats each.
* 1 weapon to be upgraded to Tier 8 using vendor-available fusion stones*
* 15 items to be refined to +6
* PvE server (no seals required)
* Original gear is "clean" of undesirable stats.
* Stats are obtained from looted items, no buying stats with diamonds.
* The items enchanted are the only ones the player will ever equip, he already has and/or will not upgrade to any epic gear from end-game instances.
 

* 6 Purified Fusion stones will be required for each item to obtain 6 desirable stats. (purified stones 2$ each)
* 6 stones x 14 slots = 84 purified stones. 55 diamonds per stone = 4620 diamonds.
* 8 arcane transmuter changes per item = 182 charges = 3360 daily tokens = 34 days of dailies OR 546 diamonds.

 

* Attaining Tier 8 requires 729 Fusion Stones, when buying random stones this equates to 1,093,500 gold.
* Combining all of said fusion stones uses 364 arcane transmuter charges, 10,920 daily tokens, 110 days of dailies or 1092 diamonds.
 

* With the shady practice of not documenting the effects of upgrade jewels, we are only left to guess as to their effectiveness. Based on purely subjective evidence of forum posts I'm making a conservative estimate of on average 20 jewels to reach +6. I will reduce this to 19 as it is practical to use vendor jewels to +1.
* 19 jewels x 15 slots = 285 jewels = 855 diamonds.

 

* Purified Fusion Stones: 4620 diamonds
* Arcane transmuter charges: 1638 diamonds**
* Refining jewels: 855 diamonds

* Total: 7113 diamonds

 

 

 Another point to think about....:

Cost you can expect to pay in "real money": $266.70US, or around 2 years of subscribing to a P2P game.

Note this gears you for one function of one class. As a Knight/Rogue I can imagine wanting 3 sets:

Knight Tanking
Knight DPS/PvP
Rogue DPS

Extra bank/backpack space, permanent mounts, Exp/TP furniture, Transport Runes, Golden Hammers, Skill Books ... all of this must be paid.

 

 

Some more tricks n tipps about the game you dont read everywhere

 

Another personal hint about Diamonds:

Diamonds are the inofficial ingame currency for items not gold anymore i.e. buying items from other players. If you buy diamonds and you want to use it in the auction house for items and not for the ingame shop, you have to wait for 30 days at the moment and there is no notice about that. I heard they want to change this soon probably, but just that you know before you buy them.

 

 If you love PvP and want to join PvP servers:

Be aware that if you get pk´ed that you could loose any hard earned random item you have equipped or in your backpack...it is also possible  that higher lvl players with full equipped item shop gear milk other players due to the drop chance - lvl difference doesnt matter. The difference between pimped cash shop gear and normal one is significant. There are additional costs for seals on pvp servers which you dont need on the pve servers. Since there is not much endgame content, ganking/pking will happen of course so be prepared if you choose such a server, quality pvp doesnt exist except duels but you can find duels also on pve servers. PvP servers offer  just ganking in comparison to the pve servers, nothing more. If you want to be a successfull pk ´er dont even think running around without full pimped out gear.

If you kill a "bad" player it counts aswell as PK with the common penalties and drop chances  !

Best class for PK is probably a combo with one stealth class, since the more pk rep you gain the more people will hunt you of course. It is common that PK players prefer weaker players.

 

some rules which may sound funny but are unfortuantely reality...

- never do pvp with your main character otherwise you cant quest anymore due to penalties

- If you dont want to loose equipment: pvp nacked...alternative is only full pimped char with item shop gear, same counts for inventory

- If you want to start pvp on a pvp server, just start talking to any npc and maybe seconds later someone will stabb your back. Alternative, you look for an opponent which seems weaker and is not prepared for your attack.

There are no factions,  RvR or Battlegrounds on any server.

 

Guild vs Guild:

There are some options which you should know.

- it is possible that opponents invite players from other guilds

- it is possible to leave the guild to avoid the war

- it is possible to hide in your house to avoid the war

- you can declare war on a guild even if the guild is in war already (which is an exploit currently)

- if you take part in a guild war the opponent can attack you without warnings

- if your guild just make one kill and logout you win the guild war

- when someones declares war on your guild and all your guild members logout, the other guild looses 200k due to 0:0 result.

 

.....well you see there are some issues here - thats about guild wars in this game currently.

 

 

 

Character- Skill Development:

You get talent points (TP) which you can invest into skills for each of your two classes. On average you can easily max 4 skills up to lvl 50, this seems first quiete nice but you have to know things about that.

- you dont have to plan how you skill your character for the endgame, but of course you should choose important ones first during lvl up.

- there are no individual skill distribution i.e. crowd control vs damage, you can be both depends which is your class combo.

- after you reached lvl 50 some kind of grindfest starts since you still can get talent points, which means the more you grind after you reached max lvl the more skills you can obtain. In other words, they did implement quests so you level up fast but the talent point grind is still a part of the game like known from other f2p/asian games. In other words the grind starts at endgame and not before, dont forget that you have to lvl up 2 classes in one character aswell collecting talent points for their individual  skills later on. The arguement that this game is grindfree is not correct.

 Stats distribution:

There is one major important stat in this game: Stamina - which benefits every class. You will find magic classes with almost similar hp like tanks, there are magic class combos out there with more than 10k+ hp.

Stats are influenced a lot by items, up to 60-70% later on, so dont expect that you get most stats+  just by leveling up, basic character stats doesnt mean that much.

 

 

 

 

Notes:
* Making a pure T8 weapon would cost $1,503.36 in Purified Fusion Stones alone.
** Discount this if you are willing to spent 165 days farming dailies...

 

 

Oh please, T8 Weapon with Purified stones... no one in the game has that. I'm so sick of people saying how much it would coast to play this game. what this post says is how much it would coast to get the perfect gear, to do the endgame instance all you need is lvl 50 char and have your epic quest done the reward from that quest can be sold for 600 diamonds if not more which is enough to buy some modded gear and start doing MA or Clops and you can go on from here.

Also you don't have to farm daily's to get arcane charges to tier up your weapon. Once your char hits lvl 10 you get 10 free arcane after that just buy fusion stones from merchant which coast 2k gold and start making mana stones once the charges are up make a new char and repeat. In a day you can make your wep/armour tier 5 easy.

People are trying to scare new playerrs from joining the game with all this bullshit atleast explain fully how everything works not just how much it would coast if you were to buy non spoiled gear and clean mods and make tier 8 wep with pure fusion stones

 

To do endgame instances you need more than level 50 sorry... MA and Clops are NOT endgame instances, they are an absolute joke that can be solo'd and 2 manned. The amount of farming needed to do to obtain stats is outrageous and by far surpasses the amount of time people raid in other games to obtain their gear and yet here, you still need to pay for it.

Sure you can put it on a vendor stone and waste those stat slots. You could also then sit and try to match the vendor gem so you only waste 2 slots. The problem is with instances like Treasure Trove, you can't get there with 2 crap stats on every piece of gear. Then we can address the fact that every time they raise the level cap, all the work and money you put in to the gear will be useless and needed to spend more to upgrade with the new stats.......cash cow...nothing more.

MA may not be an end game instance after the nerf but clops still is and you can start doing a week after you hit lvl 50, Instances like TT oh please... mod all your gear with half decent decent stats get a t7-t8 weapon and your ready, Waste thoose stat slots?? who the hell makes t8 gear with pure stones a picture link  to a clean t8 item would be nice if they even exist....

Originally posted by rwtony

Very true! There is no honor is PVP! So I think players that chose the PVP server should throw out the whole fairness idea and just enjoy the sense of danger at every corner. I could imagine the fun when you bring a bunch of your friends and beat down a heavily cash shopped user!

PvP and PK are not the same. whats going on in Runes of magic pvp sever is really a PK sever "player killing" PK has no honor and that is why we get red name and such. PvP has honor/repsect, it is ethere a duel or arena/BG with that you get ranks, get known, get respect and another player challenge. PvP is the way to go.

i wish i never found this topic. i was really hating gaming lately cz everything i have tried is broken, lame, devs mia, or worse, it could be perfect world.

i found this game 3 days ago and i had fun. imagine that, actual fun. i havent had fun since eq was new. been grinding thru half a$$ed games ever since including jokehammer, lord of the gays, and age of frustration.

now i dont hate on a dev for trying to make a buck, item malls are what they are, but selling crafting material is not even close to fair. f2p must be competitive for all players regardless of real investment. time and skill should be virtues, not daddys credit card. selling the uber equip is not fair either. look, u wanna sell a costume that makes you feel special, go for it. but when u sell what should be in game rewards for your effort, u rip out the heart of the rpg. you devalue the entire in game economy. grrr, just thinking about the crafting mats is making me really mad again! :/

all that being said, i like the game enough to continue, but get this. a level 1 quest for a stupid a$$ mushroom pet forces you to purchase an item mall item to complete it. talk about a sour note.

i do hope some of the ppl who replied that they were able to remain competitive w/o the f-in item mall are correct, and the game is certainly good enoughat low levels to stick it out till that stops being the case.

After more than a year i thought lets check the forum how people talk about this game currently, its sad to see that probably a lot of the people recognized so late that this game is just a cash shop ripp-off.

Honestly most ingame cash shop games are ripp-off games ...stay away from such games if you dont want to waste really that much time, better pay a monthly fee and you get the whole package with a lot more fair conditions in pvp.

Well... I really did enjoy playing this game these past 3 days.  I hit level 12/5 and began sending /tells to various level 50+ characters to try and find out whether I should be investing my time in this game.  Most people gave me... well.. not so good answers until I sent a /tell to the right person.. an adult who could type in proper english.

This woman and her husband both play the game.  They recently spent $200/each on diamonds during a x2 sale of diamonds.  She told me things are harder now that you can't buy diamonds for gold.

From what I am gathering, the game is GREAT from level 1 to 50.  It's chalk full of quests/crafting and content but then you hit a point... in World of Warcraft this is where you hit level 80 and you run heroics or raids to earn your gear.  In Anarchy Online, this is where you farm bots from alien raiding ships in order to get QL300 alien armor sets... most games (especially the ones with a monthly fee) allow you to do something.. take some action in order to obtain great items/gear.  Then, 6 months later something new comes out and boom, you are off again trying to work with guilds/friends to farm/raid/grind for gear.

What makes this game different is that you have to spend absurd ammounts of money, or unacceptable ammounts of time to get "geared".  We all want the best/shiny stuff.. it's what we strive for.  I go to school, I want to get an "A+" in my class... I play softball with friends.. I want to hit a home run... this is fundemental stuff. 

I'm choosing to quit this game because you can't get an +A in this class unless you bribe the teacher with $400, and then 6months later you have to take a new class anyway!

If this game offered a monthly sub... believe me.. I would gladly pay it.  ($15/month would be great!).  But I simply cannot justify re-purchasing the best stuff every 6 months or so. 

I will say that I didn't get to level 50 but of those whom I spoke with.. most seemed.. slightly unhappy with the money they were forking over.

Uninstall.. here I come! : (

You did better than I, who played up to level 44 or so and spent about 100.00 US before coming to the same conclusion and unsubbing.  It was a lot of fun actually, shame the cash shop model ruins it so much.

Originally posted by Sixpax

Originally posted by marcusfx

Let's take a look at World of Warcraft "endgame." First, let's make the assumption that you 1) do NOT have a guild or friends who will carry you through raid content in your quest greens/blues; 2) you'll follow the intended progression of level 80 dungeons in normal, then heroic dungeons, and THEN starting raiding for Tier 7 and up gear.

From my experience, it takes approximately 3-5 hours per day for approximately 10-14 days running heroic dungeons to be considered "geared" for raiding. "Geared" as in a raiding guild MAY invite you depending on how high their standards are (You know those people who expect you to be in full Tier 7.5 or better to do Heroic Utgarde Keep, or to have a Twilight Vanquisher title to fill in on a 10 man Naxx guild run.)

So let's say that comes out to 30 to 70 hours after dinging 80 to be in 75% item level 200 epics and the rest blues. You've gotten the best possible gear you can get BEFORE raiding.

But let's say instead of spending those 30-70 hours in World of Warcraft you get a part-time job instead, say at $7.50/hour. And you make, in the equivalent time period spent gearing up for raiding, between $225-525.

YOU STILL DON'T HAVE THE BEST GEAR IN THE GAME AFTER 30-70 hours at the level cap. How many hours will you spend in 10 and 25 man Naxx and Ulduar before you do? 100 hours? 200 hours? More?

A 60% speed ground mount in Runes of Magic costs approximately $10. 65% is about $20. Both can be used at level 1.

I consider an epic flying mount to be a necessity in World of Warcraft. At level 70 pre-LK, I farmed for 4 days straight for 10-12 hours a day to get the 5,200g for the epic flyer. Now tell me how much WoW's epic flyer costs compared to RoM fastest ground mount!

 

Good points marcusfx.  Unfortunately people don't look at it in those terms because they get too hung up on the guy that spent $1000 to max out his character as soon as he hit 50.  Then they run crying and whinning on the forums that the game is too cash shop heavy and expensive because they want to be all coolz0r like "that dude" in their first month of playing.

 

I think this comparison is off... far off enough for me to jump in on this.

Here is what happens at level 80 now in WoW 3.3

You hit 80 (you choose to focus on PVE though you can earn VERY nice epic gear through PVP as well!)

1.  You do non-heroic 5man WOTLK dungeons where you get itemlevel 200-219 gear.  Each dungeon takes 10-20mins tops and one of them is even fun (you ride on horses charging and fighting).  That's 4 unique dungeons that each go quickly.  You could easily get epic geared out of your greens/blues in 1 evening (4 hours) and it's FUN.  You don't get access to these new dungeons until 80, so they are new.. unique dungeons you've never done before.

2.  Heroic grinding.  The key is to get your 4 pieces set.. but since you did the daily randoms from level 70-80 using the dungeon finder... wow.. you actually have enough tokens to get 1/4 pieces of your armor set!  So yes, now you grind doing heroics but you do 15 DIFFERENT dungeons.  All with unique encounters/bosses/loot.  That's not as horrible as grinding at a spot with the same mob all day to earn gold.  You need about 200 tokens to get your 4-piece set.  By the time you hit 80 you already have 50-75 tokens from doing the daily random.  Also, in step 1... you get a token for each boss you kiill in those non-heroics so maybe you did 25 of those.  That's 100 tokens you still need...  and you get 5-7 for each random heroic.  A heroic is 15-30 mins depending on what you get. (You can do the weekly for another 10 badges and it takes about 15mins)

3.  With a 4-piece set from heroics and the rest of yoru gear epics from the 5-man WOTLK dungeons, you can now start doing raids.  Yes, that's right.. you can now do raids.  VoA 10/25... Onyxia 10/25 have low gearscore requirements. 

4.  Get a few nice items from Ony/VOA and you're ready for another raid.  ToC-10/25 man raids.

5.  Now you're doing 6 raids (Great variety!!) a week, a few heroics.. some dailies.. maybe some pvp.. achievememts.  You're gear score is high enough to do ICC-10 man in your newbie guild.  Sure, you only clear the first 3-4 bosses but that's enough to get you some damn good gear! 

6.  With ICC-10.. the frost emblems you earn from your daily random / weekly raid.. you can now raid ICC25 in a.. semi-newb guild who can clear 6/12 bosses.  You also do VOA 10 / VOA 25 / TOC25 / TOGC10 / TOGC25.. and maybe you like doing achievements too.. you have a ton of stuff to do at level 80 and you have 2 classes to gear geared up... just like this game.  Got a priest? Well.. it's Shadow Priest AND Holy priest.. you just literally.. hit a button and you swap your gear.. you go from healer to ranged DPS.. instantly.

The whole point of all of this.. of me typing all of this up is that there is a goal.. you CAN obtain it.. it's FUN and FULL of variety and it ALWAYS costs the EXACT same thing.  $15/month.  No less, no more.

Originally posted by Kyleran

You did better than I, who played up to level 44 or so and spent about 100.00 US before coming to the same conclusion and unsubbing.  It was a lot of fun actually, shame the cash shop model ruins it so much.

Where do you think you're headed next? I can't decide.  : /

I just did 8 months of WoW (I know, shoot me) and before that I did 3 months of Fallen Earth. (Not enough variety/content).

I just don't know where to go next.  Any ideas buddy?

Iam playing Battleground Europe currently, they did remove the credit card requirement for their trial (http://www.battlegroundeurope.com/index.php/about-the-game/game-info?myAffID=sitemenu) - in other words you can play for free unlimited. And since you can compete quiete well with low gear and taking part at once in the "end game" i totally enjoy it right now. After all iam tired of the fantasy genre currently and the game offers a nice refreshing gameplay with cool pvp.