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DC Universe Forum » General Discussion » Now its just like all of the other SOE games - A WoW Clone
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Originally posted by JestorRodo No they mean Dungeons and Dragons which was out some 30+ years before WoW. Just because WoW was your first run in with the high fantasy sword and sorcery genre doesnt mean it was the first. To paraphrase Kurt Cobain, its a fresh new thing in your eyes because your experiencing it personally for the first time. That doesnt mean WoW is first and it doesnt mean WoW is revolutionary because its not. It did nothing new in the way of the genre and I hope to God people one day wake up from this all. Half the time talking to WoW fanatics is like having a conversation about history with someone who has neve read a history book. Anything you can pitch me that WoW did I can rebuttal with a game that did it before them in some way. Deadpool(to "Daredevil): See how you like it when I smack you with an interspatial distorter that will temporarily phase your brain into Dimension X! "Daredevil": This is an ipod with a piece of masking tape attached to it. Deadpool: It is...Ah, but for a second there, you were really worried! "Daredevil": Idiot. |
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Ramonski7
 Elite Member
Joined: 5/21/03
"A wise man has something to say, but a fool just has to say something." |
Originally posted by Sortis No they mean Dungeons and Dragons which was out some 30+ years before WoW. Just because WoW was your first run in with the high fantasy sword and sorcery genre doesnt mean it was the first. To paraphrase Kurt Cobain, its a fresh new thing in your eyes because your experiencing it personally for the first time. That doesnt mean WoW is first and it doesnt mean WoW is revolutionary because its not. It did nothing new in the way of the genre and I hope to God people one day wake up from this all. Half the time talking to WoW fanatics is like having a conversation about history with someone who has neve read a history book. Anything you can pitch me that WoW did I can rebuttal with a game that did it before them in some way.
Phasing (changing the world environment for players that finished major quest lines), dailies, heirloom armor/weapons (linked to your account to be shared by any toon you create and changes stats depending on what level the character using it is), dual specs (switch on the fly from dps/tanking to healing, druids ftw!), inscription craft (specialize spells and abilities), Vendor mounts (repairs and stocking on the fly), Shared food (placed on the ground for all raid members to eat), Summoning gates (to summon raid members by any member once the gate is open).....I could list more?
 "Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas." |
Originally posted by Ramonski7
1. changing the environment happened in DAOC and Guild Wars. 2. Quests that could be repeated were in EQ1. 3. Shared bank system is the same as linked account items and items that leveled up with you EQ1 and LOTRO. 4. Dual specs were in EQ2 years ago as well. Inscription is just like socketing which was in DAOC as well. 5. Divine spell casters can summon food in EQ1. 6. umm all divine casters had the spell gate and necro could summon in EQ1. 7. Lotro anyone that was a black smith and had faction with the guild in Bree could summon an anvil and repair equips since launch. So yes please list more because all of these things were in other MMOs before WoW :P perhaps I wasnt clear i'm talking about game mechanics, you're going the cheap route and listing spells which 95% of WoWs spells are genaric. I mean hell their mage is nothing more than an evocationist with a summon food and water spell and a group teleport mechanic. Woopie! If they are going to make a mage an evocationist atleast do what EQ did and make multiple arcane spell casters that can fill different rolls (ex: Necro, Wizard, Magician, and Enchanter) What I dont get is why does everyone think this game is revolutionary? It doesnt have as many races as EQ or as many classes as EQ and a smaller world...how is this game EQs successor? Simple its easy so anyone can play it and it fed off of EQs growing popularity which means basicly it was just in the right place at the right time. Its actually an incredibly shallow game when you think about it. Oh and yes before you ask i was 60 before TBC and I was 70 before WOTLK, and I tried out WOTLK long enough to see its the same thing all over again, another small landmass with more quests to grind of killing Mob X Z ammount of times. It took WoW over 4 years to impliment Death Knight as a class which only has a few anyway. Guess what Death Knight isnt anything new either, It was called Black Guard in D&D and Shadow Knight in EQ. WoW isnt new, it isnt fresh, its not revolutionary, its just a poser. If you like the game thats fine, play it and enjoy it. Just dont subject others to some bull crap dillusion that its something brand new. Its not, its just new for you because you're experincing this thing for the first time. Deadpool(to "Daredevil): See how you like it when I smack you with an interspatial distorter that will temporarily phase your brain into Dimension X! "Daredevil": This is an ipod with a piece of masking tape attached to it. Deadpool: It is...Ah, but for a second there, you were really worried! "Daredevil": Idiot. |
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..Interesting...I don't quite comprehend how it will work. I mean, Robin as a tank. Doomsday as a healer. ...I guess most characters could be a "DPSer" of sorts...but I don't see how all the stances would apply to all character types at anytime they are needed. I'll give it a try..but still skeptical. The superhero genre is mostly clear cut. Perhaps this could work in other mmos...but most comic fans would agree that superheroes generally have a set of similar powers that tend toward a distinct role when acting in a group. There are a few exceptions like Superman...who usually doesn't need a group....or the Vision whose control of his own molecular structure and android body allowed for increased density or intangibility for tanking..speed and intangibility for dps..flight and eye beams ( and , what the hell, intangibility...I think he could remain intangible for everything unless he increased his mass and density) for ranged support..but I don't believe he had any healing powers..except maybe himself ...etc....I don't know...just a little put off by how it seems this game will play. hic!...CAW! |
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Ramonski7
Elite Member
Joined: 5/21/03
"A wise man has something to say, but a fool just has to say something." |
Posted by Sortis 1. changing the environment happened in DAOC and Guild Wars (release date 4/2005). I played DAoC and I seen no phasing you speak of....actually a friend of mine JUST stop playing maybe last year and he NEVER mentioned any phasing like he has seen in WoW's DK quest line when I asked him.
2. Quests that could be repeated were in EQ1. In EQ1 there were quest progression but NOT daily quest. Two different things. Quest progression is quest that opened after you finish them that lead to a bigger goal in the zone. DAILY quest are faction/exp/gold based quest that also have a greater goal BUT can be repeated after you're done leveling your faction. You could have up to 25 daily quest that reset each day.
3. Shared bank system is the same as linked account items and items that leveled up with you EQ1 and LOTRO(release date 11/2008). I'm not talking about any shared banking system or a weapon that can level. Heirloom items can be freely used by any character on your account at ANY time. This means if my lvl 80 druid used a heirloom staff but decided to give it to my kid, any of her characters would get that same staff I was using but with stats to match her level. And if I told her to give it back to me, it would show stats equivalent for a lvl 80 weapon again as soon as I equipped it. As far as I know EQ1 weapons were set in stone and LoTROs Legendary weapons are BOUND to your character and CANNOT be reverted back to a lower level for an alt.
4. Dual specs were in EQ2 years ago as well. Inscription is just like socketing which was in DAOC as well. In EQ2 these are not options to DUAL SPEC. These are hybrid classes. A main and a sub class. This means a healer will ALWAYS be a healer. Not so in WoW. If a druid wanted to heal for a raid you hit your button for restoration and all your hotbar keys are set to resto spells. And if a tank left and you can fill in you hit your feral button and all your hotbar keys switch to all your feral abilities for tanking or dps. Of course the gear you carry gets switched out as well so you do have to carry 2 sets of gear healing and tanking/dps. You cannot do that in any other game I've played period.
5. Divine spell casters can summon food in EQ1. Self casting ONLY. They cannot cast food to be shared by others. Also Cooking is a trade skill in WoW not a spell so ANYONE can do it and set out a meal to be shared by EVERYONE.
6. umm all divine casters had the spell gate and necro could summon in EQ1. These are self casting recall spells and not meant for group movement. Necros could summon their own CORPSE, not players so don't even go there.
7. Lotro anyone that was a black smith and had faction with the guild in Bree could summon an anvil and repair equips since launch. I'll give you half of this one but you STILL can't by food,reagents or sell items from an anvil.......
PS: WoW was released 11/2004......well before a couple of your examples there.
So yes please list more because all of these things were in other MMOs before WoW :P perhaps I wasnt clear i'm talking about game mechanics, you're going the cheap route and listing spells which 95% of WoWs spells are genaric. I mean hell their mage is nothing more than an evocationist with a summon food and water spell and a group teleport mechanic. Woopie! If they are going to make a mage an evocationist atleast do what EQ did and make multiple arcane spell casters that can fill different rolls (ex: Necro, Wizard, Magician, and Enchanter) Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of any uniqueness of having different classes? Mages teleport and warlocks summon. Not hard to see.
What I dont get is why does everyone think this game is revolutionary? It doesnt have as many races as EQ or as many classes as EQ and a smaller world...how is this game EQs successor? Simple its easy so anyone can play it and it fed off of EQs growing popularity which means basicly it was just in the right place at the right time. Its actually an incredibly shallow game when you think about it. Oh and yes before you ask i was 60 before TBC and I was 70 before WOTLK, and I tried out WOTLK long enough to see its the same thing all over again, another small landmass with more quests to grind of killing Mob X Z ammount of times. It took WoW over 4 years to impliment Death Knight as a class which only has a few anyway. Guess what Death Knight isnt anything new either, It was called Black Guard in D&D and Shadow Knight in EQ. WoW isnt new, it isnt fresh, its not revolutionary, its just a poser. If you like the game thats fine, play it and enjoy it. Just dont subject others to some bull crap dillusion that its something brand new. Its not, its just new for you because you're experincing this thing for the first time. I HAD a shadow knight! So I KNOW you're lyin through your teeth! I didn't want to go there but shadow knights were the direct opposite of paladins....TOTALLY different from Death Knights. The origins of the class my not be new but the mechanics sure are. And the whole thing about WoW being simplified, rehash materials being presented for the masses is a weak excuse to bash the game and players. If people didn't take the time to IMPROVE on the things we have today we would all be still using Apple IIEs, driving gas guzzling tanks on wheel and happily popping in VHS tapes on our new VCR players.....why bother improving things we already have right? Get real..... "Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas." |
Originally posted by Ramonski7
The release date of guild wars was WAY before WOTLK what was the point of that? you just blasted yourself lol umm you could re-do crush bone belt quests as much as you like for faction/exp/gold did you really play EQ1? cooking was a tradeskill in EQ1....and you could share cooked and summoned food?...you havent played EQ1 have you? umm again you havent played EQ1 obviously there is no soul binding in EQ1 and i can go to the bazaar and buy an item that stats level with me and I have a shared bank so I CAN share it with any characters on my account. In EQ2 you CAN dual spec I got on the WoW boards begging for this several times. I believe it was a...jewler who can make a mirror you put in your house that lets you dual spec. Oh and yes you can become a dps as a healer in EQ2 there are several different specs actually there are more specs in EQ2 than WoW per class. Necros CAN summon another characters corpse...again have you really played EQ1? The component was a coffin and you had shouts ALL OVER the POK asking for corpse summons so yes...I will indeed go there and stay there because its nice this time of year lol Clerics could also bind a characters respawn in old day EQ even right outside of Crushbone if he liked. Oh and Duids had teleports and so did wizards. WoW was released before these games BUT WOTLK was not and these things you speak of came from WOTLK and Mines of Moria came out around the same time. How does that defeat the uniqueness of having different classes? Necros, magicians, wizards, and enchanters were there own class? necro was pets and dots similar to Warlock. Magicians were pets and arcane spells and could summon items among other things. Wizards were basicly mages. Enchanters were MASS CC they could mez and charm enemies and had buffs and had spells that directly involved tradeskilling. What in the devil is different about the Shadow Knight versus the Death Knight? They both summons undead...they both use unholy spells and life taps. They are evil dark knights case in point. I'm not saying dont improve but can you call something that hasnt improved beyond graphics a real improvement? Like I said less races, less classes, less customization because lets face it if you really have played EQ1 you know that there are more AAs for 2-3 characters classes than there are talents for every character class in WoW. I'm saying a game that had more races, just as big or bigger world, better lore, more customization, and more classes would be better. I'm not saying dont improve i'm saying WoW isnt an improvement, aside from upgraded graphics that look kiddy. I'm not trying to offend anyone here i cant because i'm talking about a game. I'm already very real. My case is bulletproof, but again if you enjoy the game then play it. I can give it atleast one thing. It is a HUGE poser but atleast they had the good sense to throw good ideas together in one game. Although thats really the only thing I can give it. Anyway i'm not going to argue over the internet like some nerdy 5 year old with you lol so if you want to reply thats cool...i may read it if i'm incredibly bored one day and I happen to catch it in random pass by but thats about it. I'm on the forums to just relay my feels about someone spouting that awful comment about that system comming from WoW which is an outright brazen fib :P. and btw you have a very cool sig :) and no i'm not being a smart ass i do like it :D Deadpool(to "Daredevil): See how you like it when I smack you with an interspatial distorter that will temporarily phase your brain into Dimension X! "Daredevil": This is an ipod with a piece of masking tape attached to it. Deadpool: It is...Ah, but for a second there, you were really worried! "Daredevil": Idiot. |
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To the guy above who thinks WoW is original content.
Group and single teleportation was in Anarchy Online. (June 2001) Repeated quests (missions) were the main method of leveling up in AO, monotonous and boring, but they did it first. Dual Spec, the better way, was also done in AO. If you were a profession that had the potential to play two seperate roles, you could swap out your implants to adjust your characters stats for tanking or dps, or otherwise (Soldier, Doctor, Agents) Not to mention the agent who could perform as any profession in the game with a spell that temporarily made them another prof. Not as powerful, but they could do most as any prof. Food. Ultima Online.(1997) You could cast a spell to create magical food, which is actually a direct spell from D&D, which is where WoW got it too, just changed the aesthetics. Weaponsmithing/repairs etc. Ultima Online again, had blacksmithing, cooking, every other job you could think of as a skill you could train. anyone could do it, it was all about character development. Multiple games that have equipment that suffers damage have a repair tool on any and all shopkeepers, etc. Its not really a big deal, if anything the fact that your armor gets damaged and its harder to repair it is a nuisance.
WoW is a repost of a repost. Check out AO, EQ, UO, those are the three older games that are the most likely to be contributors to your games today.
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Originally posted by Quizzical
I hope it lends more breadth and depth of game-play than WoW. |
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ILty-Cat
 Novice Member
Joined: 2/01/09
"Only dumb people that want to stay dumb say "shut up"' |
I wish people would stop calling everything a wow clone. :/ It's dumb. There are so many mmos nowa days SZOMETHING will be taken from SOME other mmo even if by accident because there isn't much originality left for mmos to be made with. :/ Just like anime.
That's like me running around on the wow furoms caps locking " This is a runescape clone! This is a runescape clone." ): Seriously. Goofballs. And I don't see why everyone is so against sony. One year you're all "Eiiiw Sega made a mmo! Lets praise sony instead!" And now it" Eiiiw Sony made a mmo lets bash them even though they've made some really good games in the past and lets only focus on the bad one's they've made" ..Oh yeah I for got to add "Because we're A bunch of follower the leader dumbies" at the end. :) I like sony. They've made some good games. I like sega they've made some good games. Avenger pissed me off with darkfall. Blizzard has made some good games and cryptic has made some wonderful games. :/ Serious guys.
If this is a wow clone then your face is a wow clone. Your dog is a wow clone and then I bet that you seriously think that those cows you see in the pastures are really just wow clones also. :) Chill with the "That's a clone of this " dumb dumb stuff. Can't we just all get along? >D /\*. "Pew Pew" Darkfall = Epic fail. |
Originally posted by JestorRodo Let me see here they announce a feature to take people away from a rigid class system and you proclaim SOE is creating another wow clone? I knew you had it out for soe for a while now with those rodo reports but this is quite a stretch and it infact only serves to call into question anything you say about them in the future. I have been in agreement with you more than not and have to say I;m sure soe is going to give you more ammunition in your crusade to destroy them for ruining SWG for you unfortunately this is not one of them. |
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Originally posted by JestorRodo So basically its a clone of WoW and WoW is a clone of EQ(a SoE product).So that makes SoE games what again? |
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I don’t really think WoW is a clone of EQ as stated in the post above. I find these games to be pretty different in game play mechanics. WoW is much more linear, it is faster paced, raiding and grouping are handled differently, leveling is different, etc. However, I also don’t believe this game sounds like a WoW clone either. I disagree with what the original poster has stated in his/her attempt to show the similarities. Actually, I find that most of the points are showing how it isn’t a WoW clone. In fact, it could be argued that Blizzard copied SOE’s idea when they implemented dual spec in WoW; although I think this is would be as far of a stretch as saying that DC Universe Online is a WoW clone. Anyway, I have to agree with ILty-Cat about how so many people seem to call every MMO a clone of WoW. With that argument we may as well say every game created is just a clone of Pong, considering it was the first video game. And, there were plenty of MMOs that WoW had borrowed ideas from during its development. Does that make it a clone of all these other MMOs? Not really. I believe that in order for a game to be a clone, every aspect of it must be the same. From what I am reading about this game, that seems to be far from the case. |
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Actually, WOW is not that different from EQ1 at all. 2. Get dumped off in a starting area and start doing quests which give items and experience as rewards. 3. Continue to gain experience through quests and killing mobs in order to gain character levels. 4. Kill Named mobs for a chance to gain Uber Loot. 5. Increase certain stats through repetition. IE, Armorcraft gains a point when you craft a leather boot, etc. 6. Classes are broke down into Tanks, Healers, Casters, and Melee DPS. 7. End Game is comprised of instanced areas which requires a very large group of people to esentially defeat the Boss Mob of the dungeon. 8. Even the default UI is broken down the same. Character Portrait, Target Portrait/Name, Hotbars, Compass, Action type menus, .... All basically the same. Graphics may be different and there may be a few small extra bells and whistles but the basic format is the same.
Do we go around saying that a Ford Mustang is a clone of the first automobile built in 1769? No. Why not? They both have a steering wheel, 4 wheels, a chasis, and an engine. |
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I haven't played EQ in a very long time, so I may be wrong in the comparison. I played in 1999. I found the bells and whistles to be what made it different. EQ seemed so slow, with tougher monsters, wasn't based on quests or leveling in certain zones (ie. I recall people killing monsters in one of the desert areas at level 20, and there were others in their 40s killing giants in the same zone; which didnt happen in WoW - again, this has been a while also). A lot of down time in EQ, it isn't quest based (quests when I played gave very little reward and exp) which is very different from WoW. Grouping and raiding was different - WoW seemed to have a bunch of surround and pound 25 man raids, where EQs raids were massive and required more planning and execution, etc. etc. I realize that they are both MMOs and video games, so there are similarities. My point was, in my opinion, it is a stretch to say that one is a clone of the other. Technically, you could say they are all clones of earlier MMOs or earlier video games in general. And, I am sure there are a lot of similarities between the two - however, there are also, from what I experienced and remember of the games, a lot of differences. It is the differences that make me believe they aren't clones. With that said, I have no idea what the games are like now, as I haven't played them in years. I am basing it on my memory from years ago. |
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OMG I cant believe what I've been reading DCUO a WoW clone hahahahaha apparently you been playing WoW so much that the real world is starting to look like a WoW clone to ya lol what race is your boss(if you have one) Orc or Night Elf do you tease him for not having epic gear does your lady friend(if lol you got one) have epic panties ooooook i had my fun. But the truth is DCUO is in no way like WoW in any form after playing the demo at the SD Comic Con has more of a comic book action feel to it then CoX an CO it fast pace and easy to learn and easy to get into it's just going to be awsome. and as for you SWG vets and Soe haters and WoW fanatics you people are just addicted to bitching and complaining for no reason. |
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Originally posted by Revel
Rofl this game looks like World of Warcraft locations with Sims2 player models. |
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DeaconX
 Apprentice Member
Joined: 2/08/05
Stand up for what you believe; Even if you stand alone. |
Originally posted by JestorRodo
I would love to have the sliders to customize my avatar - this is going to be land of 1000 Batman Wantabee.
Clearly you don't play Champions Online. Batmans, Ironmans, Supermans etc. everywhere. I'm completely unimpressed by champions online and cryptic at this point... it's a pretty pathetic excuse for an MMORPG at this stage in the MMO game. My money is on DCUO doing it better and I wouldn't be surprised at all if they destroy Cryptic's lackluster Champions Online.  Why do I write, create, fantasize, dream and daydream about other worlds? Because I hate what humanity does with this one.
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Originally posted by Vespers
Wow was a lot like eq1 in a lot of ways except that wow was heavily solo quest driven where eq1 was mostly group mob kill driven. Wow combat was also a big improvement over eq1 with many original ideas especially for melee classes. eq1 was adding some stuff to make things better when wow came out but wow had the advantage of completely designing a new system from scratch. Most of the stuff pointed out here as being unique to wow really wasn't. I think thing the two items I listed above were the big things that wow did that were major differences. Other then the obvious stuff which was graphical changes and enhancements. Wow basically redefined MMOs from the eq1 model to the wow model. The key points wow implemented were removal of death penalties, free fast travel, quest based leveling, solo gameplay orientation, generally made things easy and painless. While trying to add PvP and Keep end game raids modeled after eq1 but scaled down to smaller groups. I see DC Online roles as a new evolution which I find kinda hard to believe will actually work well. I'm afraid it will end up being like CO where everyone is a bland similar version of every other player and groups have no structure. I mean playing a role and playing it well takes some practice and experience. If you are casually switching back and forth you aren't likely going to be very good at any role. On a plus note though SoE does have a lot of experience building good epic encounters and raids. EQ1 was built on raids and EQ2 has very good raids as well. A super hero type game does seem like it would work well with a raid type encounter. I'm also happy that DCU appears to be keeping with the superhero concept of being more then just powers but basing them on something and giving it some logical structure. CO went with an approach of making every class be able to take any power making it all just picking the best power in any catagory. I hope that DCU can create a world that feels like a super hero world with good super hero encounters. This is another area where I feel that CO really falls down. The CO world feels kinda silly with dancing robots, ghost towns, undead stuff, etc. It isn't that anything is particularly bad with any of the mobs but there is a lack of a super hero feel or any continuity. Things need to be more strongly tied into super villians or something that fits together more. CO feels to much like someone just made some mobs and threw them down in an area and added a bunch of kill quests... Anyway so far it is kinda hard to tell what DCU will be like. I know I'm looking forward to learning more about it. 
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