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DC Universe Hands On Preview
Former MMORPG.com Editor Dana Massey pens this hands on preview report from his recent trip to SOE Austin where they are making DC Universe
MMOs are supposed to be about escapism. The good ones allow players to forget their troubles and just enjoy some time in a land that is equal parts video game and imagination. Yet, as MMOs evolved and became more complex, this simplistic joy was filed down. Escapism isn’t about robust character creation or talking in Old English. It’s when players are allowed to enjoy a world in their own way.
If an early version of DC Universe Online represents what is to come, then this is something SOE has definitely gotten out of the way and let players enjoy themselves. Recently, they were kind enough to show me the game at SOE’s Austin studio. It is early and clearly there are miles to go before this is a full game, but the core experience is already there. Characters can run around at sonic speeds, beat the crap out of each other and take part in some archetypical missions. SOE definitely understood that less can be more and through some simple, but important design decisions, have created a game where players will truly be able to lose themselves.
“Let’s start at the end and skip to the front!”
Most games seem to be developed in chronological order. First, they do a starting area, then character creation, then world creation and quests. Perhaps I’ve oversimplified, but simply put many are developed in the same order the end-user experienced it. It’s no coincidence that every game seems to have to redo the new user experience just after launch.
SOE appears to have thrown that concept out the window. In its current state, DC Universe completely lacks many of the elements that will eventually make it a game. For example, most of their plans for character creation – a hallmark of superhero MMOs - were not in the version I tried. I just picked a guy who looked cool and went with it.
The game world itself is also very complete, despite the early stage of development. There are cars, pedestrians and the landmarks you’d expect in the absolutely enormous Metropolis city zone, but it doesn’t exactly burst with quests yet.
SOE is not the first to take this layered approach to development, though. Blizzard did much the same with World of Warcraft. First they built a beautiful world, and then they filled it with content. After years of WoW clones, it’s refreshing to see a company mimic the behind the scenes stuff in the pursuit of a new, and very different, type of game.
Once in the world, characters played like mid to high level ones eventually will. My guy could run at super speeds, climb walls and suspend upside down if he kept moving. Other characters I tried could fly or leap around from wall to wall in an acrobatic style.
In my first mission, I fought Doomsday. Odds are, no one is going to try that at level one! In general, SOE intends to have players “start at 11,” but so far, they’ve polished a higher level experience.
To me, that is a good thing. They’ve focused on a few core things that all boil down to one central premise: they’re polishing a fun user experience. Quests may change from day to day, but at a certain level, players still must fight those bad guys from their own point of view, which can only vary so much.
So before they churn out a million quests, they took the time to really get those moments right.
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“Creativity is about more than nose sliders!”
Every new generation of MMO boasts more feats, skills and options. Unfortunately, while it takes the designers a lot of time to come up with all the different ways for two characters to brain each other, these abilities can confine the player’s imagination.
DC Universe Online has feats and abilities, just like every other game, but with an added wrinkle. Physics.
It’s simple. All sorts of logical world elements can be picked up and hurled at enemies. When someone picks up a car and tosses it at a group of cops, it’s not about die rolls and resists. It’s about aim and lucky bounces. Aim well, and that car can take out a whole group of unlucky officers or bank robbers. Throw it too high and it might bounce harmlessly down the road.
The beauty of this system is that it has limitless possibilities. There are literally no limits on what can happen. It makes each fight a little bit different.
Senior Producer Wes Yanagi called this “unplanned emergent behavior.” Technically, that’s accurate, but I greatly prefer “cool stuff I didn’t see coming.”
Yanagi recently was involved in a melee where his aim wasn’t true and missed the guy he’d thrown it at entirely. At first, he was annoyed, but then it ricocheted off a wall and into the hands of one of his companions who immediately used it to beat the guy he was fighting into a blood pulp.
Even in my limited hands-on time, I saw this in action. While locked in an epic PvP duel with SOE PR man Matt Slagle, he thought he’d be clever and rip a chunk of rock out of the earth and bash me with it. “Not so fast,” I said (well, I didn’t but I should have!) as I smacked him around until he dropped his rock.
Next thing he knew, I had grabbed that stone he had just ripped out of the ground and beat him into submission. Victory newbie!
It’s a huge cliché, but in this case, less really is more. I fought Matt using a PS3 controller, which limited my access to only a few abilities at a time. Yet, with that small toolbox, I had more pure fun in an MMO than I’d had in a very long time. I for one am sick of games that make me open fifteen hotbars in order to be competitive.
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“Superman’s got stuff to do too, you know!”
Don’t expect to log into DC Universe Online and see Superman with a yellow exclamation point over his head. That’s not how it works.
The license concerned me as I walked into the Austin studio. How do you integrate such epic and timeless characters into a world without overwhelming the user’s personal story? It seemed a near on impossible task to tackle, but luckily, SOE had a few ideas on that front.
First, when it comes to quests, it’s all in the delivery. In Grand Theft Auto, players get phone calls and text messages for the next adventure. Yet, in MMOs, there is always that absurd collection of quests from motionless automatons and skipped chat spew.
SOE eliminated that for the most part with a kind of dispatch system. Superman has crime to fight himself, and apparently wireless communication has been invented. So, if Superman needs your help, he just fires off a message. At the bottom of the screen, the contact’s face appears along with the details of what’s going on.
As characters progress, how they react to these messages from the whose who of the DC Universe is a kind of mini-game unto itself. Too busy to go help Batman? He might be a little pissy with you the next time he calls. It’s not precisely faction – odds are Batman won’t ever put you on his do not call list – but it does pay to jump when someone with his own product line gives you a shout.
Once on a quest, the big names of DC will be there and involved, but the player still dictates the outcome.
For example, in the quest SOE threw me into, I was called to aid in a disturbance at Star Labs (I was a villain). Once there, I found a fight under way and had to take out a few security types. While on the surface, this was indeed a kill mission, there was a pretty big ripple… but more on that later. Once completed, I got inside and found that all hell had broken loose.
Doomsday was on the loose and Lex Luthor was there fighting him. Strictly speaking, if I left Lex and his minions alone, Doomsday would eventually overcome them and escape. With my help, though, we were able to knock Superman’s killer down and get him bundled back into stasis before he could do any more harm.
A lot of DC’s missions work much like this. There is an iconic hero or villain there with something to do and he needs the player’s help to pull it off. It is a pretty simple – there I go repeating myself again – but effective way to incorporate the big guns without ruining the fun for everyone else.
“Full. Competitive. Player vs. Player”
Remember that ripple in my quest? Well it’s a pretty big one. Huge chunks of the world are completely open for full, competitive PvP. It’s something like Public Quests in Warhammer Online. Both sides can take part in what on the surface seems like a pretty straight forward task, but only one can succeed. Their quests are mutually exclusive.
Strictly speaking, PvP isn’t always necessary to win. In my case, all the superhero or villain had to do is kill the allotted number of baddies to lock it down as their own, but as we all know, to escape a bear, all you need to do is outrun your friend. DC is no different. Sometimes it’s just easier to kill the villains and then complete the task.
Large swaths of Metropolis and Gotham City (which I did not get to see) are open to PvP. Largely, this is area or situation based. Heroes generally need cause to beat the crap out of random villains and vice versa.
Still, the game is organized into the two obvious factions: good guys and bad guys. And a huge chunk of the content is based around PvP combat. Given that the game offers such a fast action, visceral combat experience, it only makes sense to up the ante that way.
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“So, umm, how does it work?”
Under the hood, players build their superhero in a very logical way.
First, they pick what kind of power they want to wield. Will Sir Kills A Lot’s primary ability be martial arts, brute strength, the force of light or something else entirely?
Second is the focus for that super power. It can come from a sword, the character’s eyes, hands, etc.
Third, every superhero needs some kind of super transport. At this stage, they had flight, acrobatics and super speed to choose from.
Fourth comes the character’s super ability or trait. Is he super strong or just really good at getting out of the way of flying trucks?
Again, there is elegance to this simplicity. From these four choices, people can create basically any superhero. Think about it. Green Lantern would be light power focused on a ring with the ability to fly and the use of will power, while Batman would be a specialist (gadgets) who used his hands and feet (melee), acrobatics to get around and is focused on damage.
No doubt fully aware of this, SOE also plans an “inspired by” feature that lets people quickly model their own unique superhero on whoever their favorite is.
Obviously, there are some exceptions. Superman, for example, would require like fifteen different focuses and superpowers to replicate in full, but well… he’s been annoying or exhilarating comic book fans with his sheer ability to do anything for generations, so being the exception to the rule is nothing new there, eh?
Over time, the abilities selected upon creation will evolve. For example, a character may begin with super speed, but eventually if they choose to pursue it, a speedster can earn the ability to run so fast he passes right through a wall.
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“Skills are like golf clubs.”
That header, at least, is a direct quote. In DC, players don’t pick a class and run with it. There are offensive, defensive and support abilities which players can earn and unlock as they gain more experience. There is no limit on which abilities players can buy. One super hero could theoretically pursue all three trees.
The catch is that they cannot use them all at once. They’re like golf clubs after all!
Sick of waiting for a healer? Then a player with those skills could choose to pull out those healer abilities for one mission, then swap back to a damage DPS role for another.
If they stick with this vision, it doesn’t sound like DC is going to force characters to start over once they’ve grown bored of a specific style. Unlike traditional MMOs, superhero games generally don’t have that problem anyway. Players will create new heroes and villains just for the wrapping.
“Yeah, so blowing stuff up is fun, but will this sucker hold up over time?”
It’s far too soon to tell if SOE can pull off long term stickiness with DC Universe Online. Lots of games are fun for an hour or two, but it takes a special breed of narcotic to keep people paying a subscription fee for years on end.
With this title, SOE firmly believes that wherever possible they should produce the content before they brag about it. So, it’s safe to bet that there are a lot more features that they have not so much as hinted at, yet.
As fans of Dark Age of Camelot can attest, there is a certain stickiness to competitive PvP as well.
They have a lot left to accomplish to really make this more than just a novel action game, but if they stick do in fact take the time to really finish the game, as SOE President John Smedley insists his company will here on out, the Austin team should have the leeway they need to really finish the game.
What I do know is that they’ve worked very hard on a beautiful world and a fun core experience. That puts them nine miles a head of the game and if they can pull off the rest of the content with the same skill as they have so far, DC Universe Online will definitely be one of the most solid MMOs of the next few years.
Hm...
It sounds not bad. But I am still at odds with the PVP-heavy concept. I am no fan of PVP, besides doing it once and then, and I am really unsure wether there really are so many who like Superhero games AND PVP. Not at all. PVP is a very special breed of gamers. With the Warhammer brand it was kinda logical, but with Superhero players? I dunno. I hope there will be servers were you can play PVP only when you positively activate it. In DAOC it was to capture keeps and terretories, but getting possibly ganked at every single step in such a game does not sound like a relaxing spare time to me. We'll see.
This sounds great, I'm waiting on this and Champions Online, I want to see which will be better :P
I'm not a HUGE fan of PvP, but I also dont shy away from it. I just dont like the "ganking of lowbies" and people refering to it as PvPness.
I had written off this game when I found out that SoE was making it and that it had a large amount of PvP content, but as soon as the PvP system was likened to that of WAR I found myself interested again as I thoroughly enjoyed the RvR of WAR, that is saying something when your a confirmed carebear =).
I'm also looking forward to Champions Online but I'l add this one to my list aswell, I'm leanding away from traditional MMO's these days and want to get into a completely different theme and I've very happy that more developers are trying out new ideas, rather than the safe elves and orcs route.
SOE was wise to pick up on the Public Quest design that Warhammer has implemented. Now, learn from the the missteps of the Public Quest system and make it better!
- Reward system - will you have a random loot roll which gives anyone the possibility of capturing the grand prize, no matter how much contributed to the event?
- Influence system - will there is a reward for dedication to the event even if you dont "win"
- Will the rewards be worth competing for?
- Will there be code to challenge smaller groups or do you need a raid for every event?
- How will you keep starting zones from becoming ghost towns six months or more down the road? Will an area have random hot spots flare up where villians and heroes alike can compete for their goals?
- Will the losing faction be "locked out" of the PQ progression or will they still be able to interfere with the enemy to try to stop them from achieving PQ completion? If I had my way, I would provide a boon to the winner of the PQ stage and let the loser try to thwart further progression of your PQ. By Boon, it could either be a temporary buff, a temporary power, a powerful NPC unlocked to fight the enemy, an environmental change which puts the enemy side at a disadvantage (example a building crumbles and the loser has to scour through the rubble to fight , maybe inhibitng flight, etc. Another example could be a blinding flash which causes enemy screens to blur for a minute or two, etc.
Good work, SOE, to make competitive PQs!
not a huge fan of superhero games....but this sounds very good thus far....i will have to keep an eye out on it
I think that you are looking on PvP as too much "forced fun that im not having". To me getting into a fight with another play should be the most fun someone can have in an MMO as long as its balanced. I think what really turns people off of PvP is the extremely unbalanced games like WoW. What if I posed this question to you, What if you could go into DCUO and have balanced PvP from the start where you and the enemy are on the same playing field and its all up to skill to determine the winner?
If you look at why people love FPS games so much its because, everyone starts out on the same playing field they all just have different ways of getting the kill. Some people run in close with a SMG, some stay far back with a sniper, and it stay like that through the whole game. Which brings up the issue of "Should level dictate how powerful you are?" which to me I say "Hell no!" but there are others who disagree.
If they have consensual pvp I'll play. If PVP is forced on the player, they will NOT get my money.
Companies still haven't learned that nonconsensual pvp is VERY much a niche game.
I believe thier idea of PvP will suit me well in that you will have a clear objective to aim for, and that this objective is going to be shared by everyone else who is in that area with you, so the randomness of PvP that you find in other MMO's is nearly eradicated.
Taking away the randomness of PvP and containing it within an area will enable more ppl to interact at the same time as yourself, thus taking away the possibilties of you being the old poor sod to face off against a horde of bad guys all wanting a piece of you, something most of us carebears are only too familar with in other MMO's.
If this wasn't SOE I would be more intrested. SOE just has too much a rep of shooting themself in the foot for me to put any time into.
I have to admit this preview has piqued my interest. I love the concept of a superhero game and played City of... for a long time, but always felt constrained by the repetitive mission structure and the inherent limits of push-button powers. A simpler approach to the power (super strength makes you strong, it's not a menu of different "punches") along with a more complex relationship with the environment: picking things up, pushing things over, punching, kicking, grabbing... whatever makes sense, sounds like it might really be what has been missing from mmos.
This sounds like it's making a lot of thesame errors Warhammer Online made. The whole thing just sounds like it would get tired quickly.
This is actually starting to sound like it actually might be pretty fun. At the very least it sounds like they are willing to try new things instead of repeating the same formulas over and over again, which as evidenced in recent history, isn't as successful as a lot developers seem to think it it will be.
Plus I have to admit that, as a comic fan, I'm pretty enticed by the idea of being called on to do a solid for Superman or Batman, or perhaps Lex Luthor.
If anyone is at all interested in this game should try City of Heroes/Villians. I recently came back to it after taking 3 years off playing every other mmo that came out. COH/V is so far ahead of its time. It does not have much pvp at all. You really have to put effort into finding it. Graphics are great. leveling system and choice of powers and builds as you level is unlike any other. Anyway, if you havent checked it out lately and this looks good to you, it sure wouldnt hurt. Remember Cryptic does City of Heroes/Villians and still puts out recent content updates (read the latest news archetect 14). Just a suggestion. have fun.
Thanks Jon, sounds a little like the swappable ablities in MxO without the atrocious combat system (which they tried to fix, but was mostly unfixable). I am interested to see where they go with this title. Your 'hands on' article is enough to keep me interested.
Shreddi, Cryptic left City of Heroes some time ago. It's now being updated by a new division of NCsoft being headed up by Positron. Cryptic let the game go back when the announced the Marvel deal which fell through when Microsoft backed out.
Cryptic is currently wrapping up development on Champions Online, and pushing on the Star Trek mmo.
I think that you are looking on PvP as too much "forced fun that im not having". To me getting into a fight with another play should be the most fun someone can have in an MMO as long as its balanced. I think what really turns people off of PvP is the extremely unbalanced games like WoW. What if I posed this question to you, What if you could go into DCUO and have balanced PvP from the start where you and the enemy are on the same playing field and its all up to skill to determine the winner?
If you look at why people love FPS games so much its because, everyone starts out on the same playing field they all just have different ways of getting the kill. Some people run in close with a SMG, some stay far back with a sniper, and it stay like that through the whole game. Which brings up the issue of "Should level dictate how powerful you are?" which to me I say "Hell no!" but there are others who disagree.
WAR has taught me one thing: its not so much a matter if its good or bad PVP, but PVP is just not my type of thing. It bores me, simple as that. Other than the PVP part the preview sounded good, so it remains to be see how the rulesets are going to be.
If the concept of PvP is based on the PQ's of WAR then I believe ppl can bypass that aspect of the game and lose very little in the way of gameplay, but thats only if the system is very similar to WAR, if the areas are much much bigger then perhaps that might pose a problem, other than that this carebear would still do a little PvP from time to time =).
Think that the mention of PQ is off.. PQ is about quest anyone can join from one side. , seems here its more of a PVP zone were the quest are given to both parties and that just creates conflict/pvp , "time sink" aka longer game play and supose to enchance the the experiance.
It strikes me that in this ghaotic writen preview I find manny things sound like the CO systems. and i personaly highly doubt soe has found the idea of no Newby toons,
When playing checking out a preview its always more advance then starting out in a live game. and newby zones are ofthen build afther the game it self is made to minimize work / chance all the time.
I do think this game could become one of the better in SOE stables but i have more confidence in CO at this time.
I live, eat ,and breath PVP... when I found out this game was going to have a strong PVP element to it I was very very excited. I find it hilarious how many people are getting turned off from this game each time "pvp" is used in one of these interviews. Face it, PVP is the future of MMO's and I doubt you will ever see a game with strict Everquest PVE only gameplay released in the future.
You can claim you do not like PVP or PVP gets boring, however in reality it is either A) You suck at video games or B) You choke under pressure. PVP is the most intense part of MMO's and many peoples reason to even bother playing them in the first place.
I'm definetly interested in learning more about the game include its mechanics and gamestyle alone with the storyline. How will I be engaged with the game for the long term is important to me.
It seems like DCUO has a solid base started here I'm curious to learne more, I love the PvP element why have PC heroes and villians if they aren't going to lock horns.
War does have competitive PQs as well as the normal PQs where only one side can participate. This is what I am hoping DC Universe is shooting for. Sure, the zoneBloody Bay/ Siren's call, etc open PvP areas are fine too, but it just lacks the sense of comraderie like the RvR game system. It was just an area where factions can beat on each other for objectives and contributes very little to the overall experience.
This is like most PvP games. You fight PvP because you like to, not because the game provides any need for it. All fine and dandy if you want to put the same ol themepark like experience. At least in Warhammer you fought for your realm. If your realm took a zone, you got a buff.
DC universe doesn't have to copy the zone control model ( Heaven knows Mythic is still dealing with issues ), but providing dynamic areas of hot spots where the heroes and villians struggle for an objective. If one side wins, the objective advances for that side with a timer ticking. If all objectives are completed, a final reward is given. However, all players can still receive benefits depending on their contribution to the event.
And of course, players who don't like PvP can do instances and other missions.
After Cryptic Studios recent underhanded tactics, I may be looking for a new game to follow. Who would have thought a company could be lower then SOE. :P
The hands-on person fought Doomsday side by side with Lex Luthor and didnt take any screen shots?!?! Thats the worst part about this hands-on preview.
I dont think we are getting the full story in regards to PvP and quests. We know there will be PvE and PvP servers and we know the PvP on the PvE servers will be consentual. SOE probably hasnt even finalized the PvP scheme.
When we start getting hands-on previews from Closed Beta then you should worry how PvP is integrated into the game at large.
Aside from the very poor written article, DCU does sound like it will be a lot of fun if it stays on track.
I didn't read this entire section on this game but I did see SOE is behind it. That's all I need to know that SOE is behind this game to know it will suck big time as it's their custom. Now this game will be just another in SOE's large stable of screwed up, empty server, no good games.
Pity, this company is still in the gaming business especially after they've destroyed so many games already.
I was looking forward to this but 'FULL ON PVP'? - havent publishers learnt ANYTHING from FURY??
FORGET IT! - NEXT!!!!!
I think that you are looking on PvP as too much "forced fun that im not having". To me getting into a fight with another play should be the most fun someone can have in an MMO as long as its balanced. I think what really turns people off of PvP is the extremely unbalanced games like WoW. What if I posed this question to you, What if you could go into DCUO and have balanced PvP from the start where you and the enemy are on the same playing field and its all up to skill to determine the winner?
If you look at why people love FPS games so much its because, everyone starts out on the same playing field they all just have different ways of getting the kill. Some people run in close with a SMG, some stay far back with a sniper, and it stay like that through the whole game. Which brings up the issue of "Should level dictate how powerful you are?" which to me I say "Hell no!" but there are others who disagree.
Actually the reason i hate pvp is because all pvp turns into in ANY pvp centric game is roving gangs of people looking for small groups or single players and running them over and fleeing from any noteworthy challange. When this game comes out what you will see is most people giving a ff about whats being asked of them and the whole of metropolis is going to be a massive pvp arena cluster. When i 1st heard of this game i was fairly excited and the concept sounds awesome until you add near total forced pvp. I have never been "challanged" by a player opponent, they are unbelievably repetative and predictble, use my most powerful move as much as i can, or this combo of moves over and over and over becuase they found some unbalanced combination of abilities or they just spin and leap about like a rat on speed which to me, while effective in making them hard to hit, is so completly unrealistic and stupid looking i can't stand to see it for more than about 3 seconds. At least npc mobs present a challange based within the rules and behave in a more realistic way making the encounter much more enjoyable and immersive. I think they should ramp up the IQ of the enemies and have more dynamic encounters like random allies show up to offer support and keep things fluid but not so much that the players get run over by a train. If the hero or heroes/villians are mopping up the floor have a few slightly tougher randomly generated friends arrive to bring the encounte rto the next level. There is no game i have ever played in which pvp has made the game more challanging or enjoyable and i'm sad that it looks like i wont be wasting time/money with this one.
ROFL I love people like you . The one who jumps a level 12 character when they are 40 or some such nonsense and just laugh and say well you should be better at pvp. Your a joke and your i live eat and breath pvp is actually i live eat breath griefing and harrassing anyoone i can find that doesnt have a chance to fight back. And you fergot the third coice. C) I like to actually play the game, role play, and not have to hear the chorus of pwned you mf, you just got pwned and other such ridiculous nonsense. The reason you play a Role Playing game is for the story, thats the whole point, thats what a Role Playing game is about, if you wanna count your frags go play a fps game cause thats what That game is about. Any game that does focus on PVP shouldn't even bother putting the RPG in because it doesnt exist.
Can you expand on that pls as I've been following Champions Online and would like to know what Cryptic is supposed to have done.
Well thats the crux of the matter, making the PvP matter rather than it being something you can just fill your time with. I want it to matter and be competitive to draw in the players like the PQ's of WAR, with 20 or 30 ppl getting involved in each of these PvP scenario's you will get some enjoyable and hopefully balanced PvP experiences, not the gank fests you see in games like WoW when your happily lvling away to get jumped by a much higher character, thats not PvP and in most cases it's usually completely unbalanced due to lvls, ie lvl 80 against a lvl 20.
there will be both PVE and PVP servers
at Comiccon last month, the demo was for PVP server rules
from what the writer described, sounds like they played on a PVP server ruleset
dcuosource.com/index.php/topic,29.15.html
for the first group, we have PvE servers where you only fight another player when you choose to (e.g. duels, PvP content). Consensual here means you have to use a specific feature or game space to PvP. You have to actively choose to do it.
For the second group, we have PvP servers where heroes and villains can go toe-to-toe (we haven't talked about the specific rules for this yet). Consensual in this case means you've chosen to be on a PvP server and to be subject to the rules of engagement that apply there. You've chosen to live in a more dangerous world.
That is more the norm these days, to allow different servers for different playstyles, and that is what I would expect to see when the game is launched.
ROFL I love people like you . The one who jumps a level 12 character when they are 40 or some such nonsense and just laugh and say well you should be better at pvp. Your a joke and your i live eat and breath pvp is actually i live eat breath griefing and harrassing anyoone i can find that doesnt have a chance to fight back. And you fergot the third coice. C) I like to actually play the game, role play, and not have to hear the chorus of pwned you mf, you just got pwned and other such ridiculous nonsense. The reason you play a Role Playing game is for the story, thats the whole point, thats what a Role Playing game is about, if you wanna count your frags go play a fps game cause thats what That game is about. Any game that does focus on PVP shouldn't even bother putting the RPG in because it doesnt exist.
You laugh about them, and maybe that is the wiser thing to do. I pity them. The are alone in a reality of wolf eats wolfs, all fighting in an endless circle of anger, fear and isolation. People like such never know the wonders of working as a team of trusted friends, of achieving things together and for a greater good and not merely rob those who are weak and live the existence of vultures. It is a pityful view of the world.
I hope Darkfall lives long, so they all are kept away with like minded people.
Ah thanks for keeping us informed. That new kinda escaped me. In the recent news it was always as seemingly a vast FFA PVP world.
From what I have read and seen this game looks even better than Champions. I cannot wait to try it but it still has a long way to go. We won't be seeing this till at least 2011 maybe the end of 2010 if we're lucky. I will continue to read all I can on this and wait. I hate waiting
You laugh about them, and maybe that is the wiser thing to do. I pity them. The are alone in a reality of wolf eats wolfs, all fighting in an endless circle of anger, fear and isolation. People like such never know the wonders of working as a team of trusted friends, of achieving things together and for a greater good and not merely rob those who are weak and live the existence of vultures. It is a pityful view of the world.
I hope Darkfall lives long, so they all are kept away with like minded people.
Are you freaking serious? I pity you because you clearly do not understand how PVP works. Player vs player fights are non-scripted events, they are different each and every encounter and unlike NPC's players can learn and adapt. Also PVP is not limited to just doing soley by yourself... in Fury I was in a clan who's speciality was 4v4. You could not even comprehend the amount of team work this required and the sense of acheivement when fought against the top teams was unimaginable.
You know what... Save your pity and gospel talk for your sunday school classes because I aint buying single god damn line.
sounds like a re packaged CoH.
To ballance the chatter a bit out, I love RP and hate PvE in most games, usaly a Dull repeative task only RP can spice up a bit.
I Like PvP against other RP groups. as its less about power and more about emotion. that I have this super nove shoot you to hell skill does not mean my character will or want to use it yadiyada.
PvP against the casual PvPér (as i call most players that do not rp at all in a rpg) I consider more like random thugs that try to rob my character of stuff and Ignore the usual leet speak as some mindless thug talk.
in the end we all have our own preference, I try to use every mechanic and every player to enhance my roleplay game. sometimes I get lucky and find nice player to rp whit, other times I just have to smash those thugs a bit more bevore they learn not to mess whit me ;)
Its my money, Its my game.. your all are my playground.
What are you all who are complaining about the pvp aspect thinking!!! It's Good Vs Evil!!! A comic book based MMO wouldn't be any kind of anything if you where just running around Fighting NPC's
I mean god for bid you actually fight something that has a brain or any kind of actual genuine ideas of how to kick the crap out of you, and as far as bashing SOE obviousely none of you who did bash it never played EQ before they put all the new crap in. When it frist came out the game was great and yes it has changed over time but that's the way the world works things change. If your not that into comic books then don't play the game believe me you won't be missed. As for i i'm exstatic about this game. I've been waiting so long for a game that offers such realism you throw something and if your off it can bounce around and take out one of your friends or a sivilian. As for the PVP heck ya i wanna fight supervillians or super heros. Somebody who can think on there feet is much more of a challenge then a programmed NPC who's not going to be creative at all let alone give you a sporting fight and if your worried about being trampled by a more powerfull foe don't you think SOE has thought about this they are trying to make money and i think they know what there talking about many of there games have been around for a very long time and still have a decent amount of players. All i know is when it's released i'm kissin WOW good bye and starting my online life of crime! Watch out DC universe!!!
You laugh about them, and maybe that is the wiser thing to do. I pity them. The are alone in a reality of wolf eats wolfs, all fighting in an endless circle of anger, fear and isolation. People like such never know the wonders of working as a team of trusted friends, of achieving things together and for a greater good and not merely rob those who are weak and live the existence of vultures. It is a pityful view of the world.
I hope Darkfall lives long, so they all are kept away with like minded people.
Are you freaking serious? I pity you because you clearly do not understand how PVP works. Player vs player fights are non-scripted events, they are different each and every encounter and unlike NPC's players can learn and adapt. Also PVP is not limited to just doing soley by yourself... in Fury I was in a clan who's speciality was 4v4. You could not even comprehend the amount of team work this required and the sense of acheivement when fought against the top teams was unimaginable.
You know what... Save your pity and gospel talk for your sunday school classes because I aint buying single god damn line.
I totally agree with you Brone. Fortunately for us PvP is the the logical future for mmos so we will be seeing a lot more of it. These guys want single player co-op games but unfortunately for them as mmos evolve its just not what they are going to be getting. Their narrow minded views are completely biased by all the badly designed PvP games we have been seeing so far and they have become jaded because of the ganking experiences they have had in those games. They just lack the imagination and foresight to be able to see the neccessity for PvP in mmos......but as they evolve and improve more and more people will start to enjoy them because afterall online games cant remain limited to single player game design forever.
Besides what kind of retard complains about PvP in a game about superheroes where the players can actually play the parts of the heroes or the villains?! How insane is that?! Why on earth would you NOT want to fight your OPPONENTS. It doesnt make any sense at all. Thankfully these jerks arent involved in making the games so their dumb opinions are worthless.
I pity them for their lack of vision and their inability to see the full potential of online gaming. They are like a bunch of old men who cant keep up with things.
Whats the point of logging onto an online game with thousands of people if you are only going to play against the computer and its braindead mobs? Basicly you are correct.....these guys are just shit at playing games which is why they only want to play against the computer. They cant handle random situations and the variety which comes from facing a human opponent. They want to see an npc opponent and press the same buttons over and over again every single time, knowing in advance everything that will happen because it makes them feel comfortable and cosy. Thats why they whine about how RPGs are about the story. Its because they want to focus more on reading stories rather than actually playing a game. They just want to click a few buttons to push the story forward and they dont care about interesting gameplay.......and the most interesting gameplay naturally comes from fighting a human opponent.
They also moan that PvP ruins the story which as usual from these guys is a load of complete bullshit. If it does then any form of combat should be removed so these boring guys can just sit there reading an online book........and this is basicly what they want their mmos to be. They want them to be online books. However thats not what I play games for. I play games to.....play games........so these boring armchair warriors can get stuffed because mmos are moving forward and leaving them behind. These guys are becoming the minority and a good thing too because its about time that mmos become more interesting and involving. I'm so tired of all of these shitty pure PvE games which are nothing more than simplified single player games with piss poor gameplay dumped on the internet. I think these guys should just stick with single player games because then they can focus on the storytelling without having those "iritating people" getting in their way and ruining their perception of fun. Either that or just stick to reading books.
Very well said. I love the fact that in this game I can create a superhero knowing full well that out there somewhere is another person who is playing a supervillain and that we might meet and do battle with each other. This is what online games are supposed to be about. Its just a shame that they have taken so long to get to this stage.
All the nay sayers who can do nothing but whine about the freedom this game offers can get stuffed and go and play some other boring PvE grind fest as they certainly wont be missed.
Sadly I feel the same way. I will watch the game as I really like the idea, but SOE has burned me too often. They took over EQ1 and ruined it, made EQ2 and it is horrible, and Vanguard do we even need to talk about how bad that was.
i love ganking newbs. i make sure there is no chance for them to fight back. lol
Neonwire, You sir deserve an award for your post! I grinned from
Here --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Here reading it.
I can't wait to see what those PVE online book lovers have to say about it!
Sounds awesome sign me up
I agree w/Neonwire. This sounds like a really cool and innovative way to handle pvp. Wouldn't it be awesome to have an actual player become your arch-nemesis? This is sounding more and more like what a superhero MMO should be like.
Are you freaking serious? I pity you because you clearly do not understand how PVP works. Player vs player fights are non-scripted events, they are different each and every encounter and unlike NPC's players can learn and adapt. Also PVP is not limited to just doing soley by yourself... in Fury I was in a clan who's speciality was 4v4. You could not even comprehend the amount of team work this required and the sense of acheivement when fought against the top teams was unimaginable.
You know what... Save your pity and gospel talk for your sunday school classes because I aint buying single god damn line.
I totally agree with you Brone. Fortunately for us PvP is the the logical future for mmos so we will be seeing a lot more of it. These guys want single player co-op games but unfortunately for them as mmos evolve its just not what they are going to be getting. Their narrow minded views are completely biased by all the badly designed PvP games we have been seeing so far and they have become jaded because of the ganking experiences they have had in those games. They just lack the imagination and foresight to be able to see the neccessity for PvP in mmos......but as they evolve and improve more and more people will start to enjoy them because afterall online games cant remain limited to single player game design forever.
Besides what kind of retard complains about PvP in a game about superheroes where the players can actually play the parts of the heroes or the villains?! How insane is that?! Why on earth would you NOT want to fight your OPPONENTS. It doesnt make any sense at all. Thankfully these jerks arent involved in making the games so their dumb opinions are worthless.
I pity them for their lack of vision and their inability to see the full potential of online gaming. They are like a bunch of old men who cant keep up with things.
Whats the point of logging onto an online game with thousands of people if you are only going to play against the computer and its braindead mobs? Basicly you are correct.....these guys are just shit at playing games which is why they only want to play against the computer. They cant handle random situations and the variety which comes from facing a human opponent. They want to see an npc opponent and press the same buttons over and over again every single time, knowing in advance everything that will happen because it makes them feel comfortable and cosy. Thats why they whine about how RPGs are about the story. Its because they want to focus more on reading stories rather than actually playing a game. They just want to click a few buttons to push the story forward and they dont care about interesting gameplay.......and the most interesting gameplay naturally comes from fighting a human opponent.
They also moan that PvP ruins the story which as usual from these guys is a load of complete bullshit. If it does then any form of combat should be removed so these boring guys can just sit there reading an online book........and this is basicly what they want their mmos to be. They want them to be online books. However thats not what I play games for. I play games to.....play games........so these boring armchair warriors can get stuffed because mmos are moving forward and leaving them behind. These guys are becoming the minority and a good thing too because its about time that mmos become more interesting and involving. I'm so tired of all of these shitty pure PvE games which are nothing more than simplified single player games with piss poor gameplay dumped on the internet. I think these guys should just stick with single player games because then they can focus on the storytelling without having those "iritating people" getting in their way and ruining their perception of fun. Either that or just stick to reading books.
ROFL thats just hilarious. You log into a mmoRPG to play with people to experience a story and build one of your own. And i am sorry i have never seen any pvp that was origional or different you meet a mage and meet 5 more later and thy all do the EXACT same thing, you meet a rouge and 5 other and thye all do the EXACT same thing. whatever some board has stated is the "best" combination of moves/abilities and NEVER do you see a near same level face off unless its 5-1 or worse. If people actually played these games looking for a challanging fight it would be fun but pvp players are complete cowerds by nature as been totally demonstrated in every pvp game i have played, wow, shadowbane, EVE and others. The ONLY pvp battles there are or gang fests or lowbie farming and thats it. Now you can justify yourselfs to a community but when it comes to playing the game your true motivations and characters will shine brightly.
And yes pvp destroys the story aspect because the only thing you care about is pvp, you skip movies get annoyed cause a quest has dialog to read and you tear about the chat channels screaming about how your going to pwn eveyrone and how you ganked that last guy over and over and its funny i have read many super heroe si fi and fantasy books and i dont see that in any of them. The childesh behavior all pvp players exhibit do nothing but detract for any ability to feel immersed in the game world and enjoy the stories created for the worlds.
Large swaths of Metropolis and Gotham City will be open to competitive PvP? Yeah...I'm out. If I want to PvP (which I don't--ever), then I'll go to the PvP zone, or I'll switch on my PvP toggle...otherwise, please leave me the eff alone! Seriously--if I can get randomly ganked by "Teh 3V1lL c14n 0f 3vi1n355!!1!!11!" at any random juncture while I'm minding my own business, then that, in my opinion, is a shitty design decision. SOE drops the ball yet again, big shocker there. Although, must give props for moving away from the static mannequin mission-giving mannequins that every other MMO uses. That's one big thing that bugs me about City of Heroes/Villains. "C'mon, seriously? Statesman is level 53 & soloed a Rikti mothership, but he really needs US to go do this random world-saving thing?!? Oh, and did I mention he's standing around with his thumb up his ass?" Riiight. So, +5 for mission-giver originality, -2 billion for vast swaths of open-world PvP.
I'm not a hard-core PvPer, but I like to dabble in it. I'm playing EVE Online right now, and one of its aspects that I enjoy most is its open-ended nature. Explore, fight, make money - anything you want to do, any way you can think to do it. Part of that openess includes PvP, you can attack anyone anywhere -- but there's a catch. Each solar system has a security rating, and the higher the rating, the greater chance your attacking another player will bring the vengeance of the NPC police force, CONCORD, down on your ship.
If DC Universe implements PvP the same way, I think that would be an excellent choice. Some areas of Metropolis and Gotham could be "safe" areas with an NPC police force to discourage PvP, but still leave it as a (probably suicidal) option to players. The "large swath of PvP areas" would have little or no police force to discourage fights.
I'd prefer this to a strict PvP/ non-PvP zone configuration, such as the one in CoX. It offers greater freedom for players, better play continuity (instead of being forced to zone to find a fight), and also introduces an element of risk which even non-PvPers might enjoy. What if the route to your latest heroic (or villainous) assignment cuts through a low security / PvP friendly area? Do you take the long way around, or take the short cut?
That idea makes absolutely no sense for a DC comics mmo. Why would the police try to stop a hero from beating on a villain? The problem with PvP from the onset, is it makes developers lazy. It is almost as if they believe that they have less work to do if they implement PvP. As if the customer fills the content in for them. That is yet another reason why I adamantly hate PvP. But no, the idea of an npc police force discouraging PvP would not work. Not even a little.
Actually in an article I read they talke about a system there working on. Basicly if a High level hero/villan is in a lowB areas to long and/or picking on/ganking the lower levels an actual DC hero or villan would come and intervein,but like i said thats just an idea they have at the moment. I think having some sort of PvP in zones and areas(and not just preset Q ups pvp system) is a good idea,it would not be a super hero/villan game other wise,not to mention form what the combat system sounds like PvP just plan sounds fun. Now how heavy that PvP should be is a toss up.
What I don't get is they have several videos and screenshots of people lifting buses but those type of character that are doing it do not seem to possess super-strength.
I wonder are they going to allow anyone just to run over lift up a building and smash people with it?
Either way the game looks good this and champions.
Actually in an article I read they talke about a system there working on. Basicly if a High level hero/villan is in a lowB areas to long and/or picking on/ganking the lower levels an actual DC hero or villan would come and intervein,but like i said thats just an idea they have at the moment. I think having some sort of PvP in zones and areas(and not just preset Q ups pvp system) is a good idea,it would not be a super hero/villan game other wise,not to mention form what the combat system sounds like PvP just plan sounds fun. Now how heavy that PvP should be is a toss up.
This type of a system wont even bother the pvpers, like most games they will find a way to max characters as fast as possible without care for anything but leveling and scoff at the weak help that comes from their murderous rampage, oohh by this i mean the heroes, the villians will actually be mean
This game sounds and looks pretty cool. I'm so excited and can't wait til it comes out. As many other people, I'm awaiting both this game and Champions. I'm really waiting on this game though... it sounds so cool. :)
The game sounds ok.
To be honest.. while the whole environmental manipulation thing sounds like its a change of pace.. its going to get old. Beat someone over the head with a chunk of concrete...a streetlight.. a car.. a trash can.. etc..etc.. eventually your gonna come to realize that they are all just blunt objects..and you are doing a basic "bash" attack with them.
Ive heard you can blow up combustible items and such.. which sounds interesting and all.. but that will get old as well. You cant build a whole combat system on environmental manipulation. And if you try and build some kind of half and half system where you depend on your powers AND the environment.. youre gonna have situations where the layout of the environment gets you killed.. which seems cool and fair on a forum but annoys the heck out of you when you are trying to play the game.
Its too early to say of course.. we will see just how far they go with the system..but every time I read about it they are saying the same things "pick up a bus and hit someone! pick up a car and hit someone! pick up some concrete and hit someone!"...whoopty freakin doo.
In regards the PVP. They arent gonna force you into it. No one does that anymore. Dont get your panties in a bunch..your PVE will be protected. It always is. And quit trying to ruin other peoples fun. PVPers dont try to pressure developers into lessening hte PVE content. Let PVPers have their content too.. everyone can be happy here.
Nice writeup.
Being Ex-DAoC, i really hope they can make RvR/PvP a massive and exciting aspect to the end game. Something Mythic messed up in WAR, and WoW like so many other "pvp mmo games" never even got close to.
Really excited for DCUO, hoping for open beta though as I was really excited for WAR only to be let down with end game.
Need try b4 you buy in MMO's
So I don't see how this is really anything but an updated City of Heroes. Is there anything special going on besides more and better same ol' same ol' beat the crap out of people with magic and melee, er, powers and weapons?
E.g., secret identities... working your sources... how about a neighborhood watering hole where you can see crime breaking out on the bigscreen tv and then run off to help? How about seeing yourself in the newscasts at that same watering hole after a succesful mission? How about a fully functional city where every door opens, every npc has a job and a life and actually remembers where and how you saved them that day last year?
I was on the original fanboi forum before City of Heroes broke out, and we submitted these and tons of other really groundbreaking ideas. Didn't happen then, don't really expect it now.
-Jumonji
SOE is hoping to do something with Secret Identities
but no details yet
www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/220032/DCUO-Source-Ask-SOE-5.html
Question #7
Q: Secret identities have been a hot topic at the DCUO Source forums, and while we understand that SOE has a policy of not talking about a feature until it is in-game and playable, the community is dying for any information on secret identities. Is there anything new in the way of information that you can give us?
A: Sorry, we can’t talk about it yet. I promise we have some really cool stuff in the works. I’ll have to refer you to the policy you mentioned in your question ?
regarding PVP
as has been said, there will be both PVE and PVP servers
on PVE servers, all PVP will be consensual
dcuosource.com/index.php/topic,29.15.html
SOE is also hoping to let players jump around servers to team up
www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/223239/Allakhazam-impressions-from-NYCC.html
actually Champions Online from Cryptic is the UPDATED City of H/V. Cryptic got the rights to the PnP Champions instead of calling it City of X 2, it was deemed Champions Online. It already looks way better than DC Online. I really don't trust Sony Online however I don't condem the company I just think that all the movies including this newest one don't look and better and even worse in some cases(bad guys hovering in air, their overdone hero picking up and throwing crap) than Champions Online. I love PvP, however I too am sick of how all PvP ends up boiling down to in MMO's. PvP is a niche and the folks thinkin that its the way of the future are kidding themselves. Warhammer is proof that pvp isn't. I loved this game however the PvE wasn't robust enough to keep the less inclined PvEers in the game. We PvPers need PvEers to survive, not the other way.