Originally posted by Hairog

 

The following is just an excerpt as to how you might go about getting answers for your questions and suggestions. I believe that these developers are hands above the normal corporate goons in responding to their customers.  By using non-confrontational language they are more likely to answer.

......

 

 

 

 And the responses to the comments  are equalizing that since 4th of july no official statements of CRS was shown at motorpool?

Btw. since the last statement there - another 48 topics and hundreds of post are made in motorpool by players without any answer from rats.

The example you´ve postet is more an exception than an example. Just creating a kind of illusion, that devs will communicate as shown in the comments by rafter in all other topics too is plain wrong. Better not to create such an expectation at (potential) new players - it won´t last long.

But i agree, in specific cases (where devs like to comunicate) they CAN respond in an outstanding way - but if they don´t like to communicate, they´re deaf.

Or did you say, that more than 40 topics and several hundred posts in motorpool are confrontial? (i bet you are aware of the redicolous censorship by mod-guards/gods)

About the use of "confrontial words" - there are not only posters (subscribers) there with english as their first language - some may have choosen their words a bit unlucky and therefore it may have a somewhat agressive attitude, but keep in mind, that it goes both ways and some statements of devs also can be missunderstood (not the devs fault) - regardless, the "tone" is counting at both sides - at players as well as devs.

What can I say you don't like the Rats. I think they are doing pretty well for 10 guys and not much money.

You can sometimes get off the wrong foot with people. I'm banned from another website and I don't even know what I did the last time. The guy who owns it just banned me and didn't give me a reason. We've had many discussions and completely disagree about politics but that's what the board was about. Hopefully someday I'll get an explaination but I guess it's his website.

Did you know that web masters can changed your post at their whim? Amazing what some of them will stoop to. Anyway will just have to agree to disagree. 

Originally posted by Hairog

What can I say you don't like the Rats. I think they are doing pretty well for 10 guys and not much money.

Hm, you may be right - i cannot say that i like rats very much atm. But I can explain it - it wasn´t the case (that i disliked them) in the past, instead, it was quite the oposite before. They created the greatest game i´ve ever played. (Was ranking on # 2 of top 100 on TOM, changed my job for getting more time to play, risked to loose my family for playing BGE)

But over the time passing by, with mostly every patch they changed something in "silence", took variety from the game away (AOs, TOEs, creating AWS, reducing RDP-war to rubble and all that other stuff i described in that topic) PLUS if getting a responce it was (agreed moreso in the past, but not lately) filled with sometimes arrogant attitudes, which was discouraging to keep further conversations.

And what´s the result of that former superb game - a dwindling numbers of players. Sry, therefore i do not accept an excuse of "small team", because its to a good share a "home-made" problem - because when statements of players (who mostly already have left the game) was answered in core like :"Take it or leave it - its our game!" or "If you bought a car, you cannot complain about it - why did you bought it?" (fine then, but don´t expect that customers will by another car from that company)

Keeping in mind all that facts, i think its understandable that likeing rats is asked a bit too much atm. - Okay, we all (including rats) are human and mistakes will be made by all of us - that was also a reason, why i´ve got a builders account; the game (and the devs) are worth to give them a chance (and time) to overlook their changes they´ve made and rethink them. It would be a great second start, if they would have the backbone and say, that something (what) went wrong - or implementing didn´t had the desired result. This at least would show, that they are aware - something was done wrong.

For the small team, it cannot be fixed in a short time - i think this is very understandable, nobody is asking for a small team doing same work as a large crew in the same time; but on the other hand - there should be at least signs about concerning what made players left this game before it might be too late.

Each reader of this forum will remember, that the 1.31 patch was praised as a kind of magical patch (which would have brought back players in droves) - while i don´t doubt, that devs put a lot faith into the outcome of 1.31, concerns and suggestions was blown in the wind. Now, that devs are realising, that 1.31 doesn´t did the desired drawing players back (and keeping the subscribers as well) - they will notice now, that ppl. are voting with their feets.

Nothing, absolutly nothing will be gained, if only statements of positive critics and positive feedback is allowed. Of course it is always good to read positives and it is always disliked to read negatives - but on the other hand, whats the use of not using "confrontational words" and saying all is fine, while subscribers numbers tells otherwise.

Just tell me what is more fair to rats - telling them that everything is fine and leaving in silence or open the mouth and speaking out what makes leaving the game?

Oh and btw. i never received a ban on their forums

Good to hear you never got banned. I advise staying away from politics in forums expecially if you have facts, reason and logic in your favor. They seem to hate that.

This is true for a supposedly political subforum. Some people can't handle the truth I guess.

I love this game myself, I still have the "Big Box" I got a EB back in 99'

"the most two useless guns in game (Pak 36 and Flak30"

u serious bro?

Here is just one statement from BGE forum - of course in a topic where no Rats is showing up:

--------------------------

Zitat:

Zitat von sg1 I do give credit for the rest of you finally understanding and catching up on this issue. My man greyzone has seen first hand what true refined squad play brings to this game vs your current deal-a-flag mess The system that has also left people with far less caliber of leadership actually running the game and this awful soft capping mess Those of you who like the toe/hc/ao systems are seriously the minority at this point. For every person that plays the game today you have atleast another 5 people who dont because of what these systems have done to the game. I have suggested mutliple times to put a server up with the classic supply in each military facilty system void of hc to prove my point but its apparently too painful to talk about. Lets talk about free rifle accounts some more ffs.... Its one thing to make a niche game the way you want and quite another to end up with 200 peak server numbers. To carry on with things like ppo's, wonderful new outfits/animations, weather, ragdolls, clouds etc. without addressing the fundemental breakdown of supply, play, leadership and squad play in your game is just about as disconnected as one could be. Its not like this is a new phenomenon either and just started happening last year. These systems were explained previously to their introduction to be highly flawed by people who lead hundreds of squadmates daily The key to this games success is giving players back control of the game and fixing the supply system. Having the ability for any player to rally people, select a target and plan an operation is critical. The stiffling hc system has eradicated true leadership development and chased away most of the games proven leaders because its terrible. I'm not asking some friggin noob for an AO, explaining what I'm doing, negotiating, waiting etc. and todays leadership is almost non existent in comparison to the pre toe/hc/ao era The current supply system is so bad thats its not even in my interest to even attack anything with the goal of actually taking it. Why the hell would I waste 50 peoples time attacking something that fresh supply of ridicoulous levels can be cycled into. Talk about boring uninteresting play. When the game as a whole has been reduced to a one fight flashing box of this that resembles cat herding you have totally lost me and many others. Todays players are actually conditioned to this P1 herding and anything out of the box is almost like taboo at this point, it disgusts me. Squads use to fight together with plans and at multiple targets on the map. Todays one box jamboree has seriously cheated the game of much of its potential Blah blah blah...I'm sure a few of you can tell who wrote that :P Love OJ

We all said this 100+ times when they were planning to implement these ridiculous things like TOEs, HC and AOs. The threads were deleted and we were promptly told to go F our selves and that WE were what was wrong with the game. Well as I have said before the TOES/HC/AOs that were supposed to give the game a FLOOD of new players as well as bring back ALL the old players did the exact opposite. It has bled the game dry of its players.

We are now at a turning point. The point we (the anti TOE/HC/AO players) said the game would arrive at if these things were implemented. The player base is a HUSK of what it once was. And we STILL do not have the things we actually have been asking for for over 9 years. Bazookas, jeeps, semi-auto rifles and so on. We were told those things were not needed but we DID need TOES and all the other GARBAGE that went with it.

---------------------------

It seems, there are much more players who don´t like the implementations of TOEs than they will do - (it is mentioned above something like 5:1 who disagree with the TOEs!

Oh, and atm there are 76 statements in this topic - without any Rats responce!

Well forget CRS responding in here for starters

Secondly understand this is the ONLY game of it type or scope on the planet and then have some respect for the makers of that game for providing something this differant and awesome that is NOT .....WOW

With that said ....Yes there is ALOT of broken stuff in game (as to be expected in such a giant project as this one) But even when adding them up DOES NOT  takes away from the OVERALL experiance that is ww2online

If you think it does ....your not paying attention to what is the game

CRS DOES CARE about their project or they would have given up a long time ago .....they havent as this is nearing the 10 year mark of this games existence

This game is at its heart a FPS ...name 1 that has been a 24/7 ongoing game from launch ...ALL WITHOUT ASKING FOR A SINGLE DIME EXTRA for patches( call them expansion packs in other games)

WELL you cant cause there is NONE

Instead of being so critical about the game (that you seem to NOT understand) how about examining HOW lucky WE are to have game devs that not only have provided such a diffrent game than WOW and ON every level but still care enough to listen to their playerbase at this stage of the game ? 

If that aint enough maybe examine how the game makers (CRS) have been hands on and intouch with their playerbase (even when called every name in the book) all in an attempt to improve the product (something that DONT happen with other MMO's EVER)

I Think the game can allways improve on it self (so do the DEVs) does that mean they have a crappy product ......well NO it dont (9 years strong and still going) it JUST means that everyone involved UNDERSTANDS that a great undertaking such as this one requires some patience

Just one of the things you lack

In my opinion (and their is usually a 14 day free trial around if ya wanna judge for yourself) there is NO game IN SCOPE ...or in attention to detail or PASSION of the DEVELOPERS that EVEN comes CLOSE to this MMO  *(ive played them all from UO to warcraft and back again)

If I was on an island and could only BRING 1 mmo with me ......ww2online (renamed "battleground europe") would be my clear hands down, no regrets ,no thinking about it ,..........1st choice

Play it awhile and you will think so too

Hey Pauker did you copy and paste that from the WWII forums? It was my post originally. Not that I care I am just saying. WWII online forum name is Solitaer.

Originally posted by Scottman

Well forget CRS responding in here for starters

Secondly understand this is the ONLY game of it type or scope on the planet and then have some respect for the makers of that game for providing something this differant and awesome that is NOT .....WOW

With that said ....Yes there is ALOT of broken stuff in game (as to be expected in such a giant project as this one) But even when adding them up DOES NOT  takes away from the OVERALL experiance that is ww2online

If you think it does ....your not paying attention to what is the game

CRS DOES CARE about their project or they would have given up a long time ago .....they havent as this is nearing the 10 year mark of this games existence

This game is at its heart a FPS ...name 1 that has been a 24/7 ongoing game from launch ...ALL WITHOUT ASKING FOR A SINGLE DIME EXTRA for patches( call them expansion packs in other games)

WELL you cant cause there is NONE

Instead of being so critical about the game (that you seem to NOT understand) how about examining HOW lucky WE are to have game devs that not only have provided such a diffrent game than WOW and ON every level but still care enough to listen to their playerbase at this stage of the game ? 

If that aint enough maybe examine how the game makers (CRS) have been hands on and intouch with their playerbase (even when called every name in the book) all in an attempt to improve the product (something that DONT happen with other MMO's EVER)

I Think the game can allways improve on it self (so do the DEVs) does that mean they have a crappy product ......well NO it dont (9 years strong and still going) it JUST means that everyone involved UNDERSTANDS that a great undertaking such as this one requires some patience

Just one of the things you lack

In my opinion (and their is usually a 14 day free trial around if ya wanna judge for yourself) there is NO game IN SCOPE ...or in attention to detail or PASSION of the DEVELOPERS that EVEN comes CLOSE to this MMO  *(ive played them all from UO to warcraft and back again)

If I was on an island and could only BRING 1 mmo with me ......ww2online (renamed "battleground europe") would be my clear hands down, no regrets ,no thinking about it ,..........1st choice

Play it awhile and you will think so too

Different or one-of-a-kind doesn't necessarily equate to being good or even good enough.  I believe if a game is truly a good one it will have both a large following and positive critical reviews.  This game has neither.  I've played non-stop from 2001 through 2005 and then I've revisited it a couple of times a year since then.  I've been patient.   Back in the old days we all kept subscribing because we believed what the game could become.  We all looked forward to the day when the graphics would be as good as the gameplay.  The irony is we've got the graphics finally, but lost the great gameplay along the way.

Originally posted by Scottman

Well forget CRS responding in here for starters

Secondly understand this is the ONLY game of it type or scope on the planet and then have some respect for the makers of that game for providing something this differant and awesome that is NOT .....WOW

With that said ....Yes there is ALOT of broken stuff in game (as to be expected in such a giant project as this one) But even when adding them up DOES NOT  takes away from the OVERALL experiance that is ww2online

If you think it does ....your not paying attention to what is the game

CRS DOES CARE about their project or they would have given up a long time ago .....they havent as this is nearing the 10 year mark of this games existence ......

 

I never expected that Rats will respond here - but one of the major reasons to talk about disliked issues in another forum than Rats own forum is nothing else but their "censorship". Hardly to see how the progress of the game will enroll into a direction many players would like to see, when mostly the "Yay-sayers" are heared in their forums, while critical voices (with or without ideas to improve the game) simply are getting ignored in PS (PS says it perfectly = Playschool forum). Any suggestions, critics (even in a constructive way) are mostly left uncommented by Rats.  Check out the motorpool - its like a desert and slowly dying same as harbour. Pretty cynical to read on mainpage about Rats donation to somewhere else and reading excuses by them to have not enough resources for bringing new models into the game. Okay, its THEIR business and it belongs to them how to manage their resources - i absolutly have no intention to judge that, but it smells a bit curious to read "Sorry no resources and on the other hand - look at our donations"

A conclussion may be - they would be able to do the changes for bringing dissapointed players back into game (and also implement new models/vehicles), but they aren´t willing to do so.  What takes them to redoing the desert camo of tanks? What takes them to change brigade/HQ placement rules and change the supply-timers (different for brigades and HQs) to get tank vs. tank fights far away from towns back into the game? It much easier to just lock such postings or simply don´t reply to them. They simply don´t care about what makes players left the game (at least i don´t see any "official" post in that direction).

The existance of the game is only because of the unbeaten, outstanding game idea - but NOT what they have done to the game. Claiming, that most players in PS is agreeing to all the changes is just a quarter of the whole coin - three quarters have left the game and don´t have active accounts - therefore they don´t post in PS anymore. Maybe its easier to keep new players satisfied for a while than working on bringing long term players back into the game.

Now pair billets from me.

Firstly about official forum. One big mistake which could be made, it is made. I mean, c'mon really! I haven't never ever seen so crappy marketing move - restriction of interested and potential customers even from  VIEWING of most important parts of forum. As i see, game owners don't understand that "simmers" is at some degree "freaks", really. They need see numbers, grades of armours,  disputes of same "freaks". Then they maybe will get hooked.

What they see now? Is it really forum of populous game (even MMO)? No. Is there to see some perspective? No. Is there to see some debates of experienced simmers? No. Then why someone hopes, that they will put its hands, legs and money into this game? This is atleast my lesson with peoples, to whom i have suggested game. Therefore i haven't anymore questions about, why in game is so few green tags..

 Also big mistake was the loss of a niche of game. I understand why the owner of the game is doing everything to attract players shoot-run-shoot. But. Again. In parallel, the game has great potential as a versatile simulator of WWII. And where does all of this? Where is logistics, where is restrictions on the tonnage of bridges, where many jobs for the rear, intelligence, etc.? Then what is the meaning of the vast unused areas and persistent campaigns? It makes no sense, especially since you can change side  several times per a day.

  Instead  is now FRU. Ok. Itself it is not bad. Though now are wiped out almost all "front line - rear area" in game. And almost all battles is from-all-direction-campfest. Again i repeat - frontline (with its restrictions) is needed into game as fresh air.
I have hear something about a new timer...People, you really think, that players come in game to sit and to watch timers? Is it simulator of fetishists of watches or timer's? If you really want that the player will spend time, for "capping or something" instead of to enter into game the new timer, give them any activity that will demand physically time.
 I even don't touched problems of multi/polycrewing, many features of in-game voicechat,  funneh AAA etc. etc...

It is a little about the graphic. From the first screenshots with 1,31 it seemed, something new has come on game. Great wood, an underbrush, a grass etc. Some patches later seems now that I too many hoping. It not as was promised grasses and woods. And poor infantry again, as flies on a table.IMHO.

About big cities. Yep, new houses was added. But fighting in those cities is boring as hell. If you are as single defender in last cp in city and you know, that soon here come enemies, then yes - you have some adrenaline. But otherwise nothing.
There is no other solution than to allow players to divide a city during battle on "us" and "enemy" part, with playerplaced hedgerows, sandbags etc..
And yet one, those cities don't leave the impression, that it is european cities. In "Sniper elite" with very outdated graphics you have feeling about war, you see streets, parks etc. It is clear that there is no simple decision, but the big cities need more mm..love?..

From a 10 year player here. Play the game you might enjoy it. But dont expect much if your into war Sims its degraded into a poor mans FPS these days with a price of 17.99/month if you dont join one of there locked in payment programs for 6-12 months.

It's a really open environment - the game offers and delivers in return what you put into it.

Sadly as of lately people have not put too much into it, and don't get the awesome game in return that it can be.

Originally posted by Szyporyn

It's a really open environment - the game offers and delivers in return what you put into it.

Sadly as of lately people have not put too much into it, and don't get the awesome game in return that it can be.

 I wish i could say this where true but its not. The game has tuned into a insta action gank feast. No tactics nothing grand in scale. They sold out to get subs from the COD/CS pie and lost there loyal player base in the process. So like I said if you enjoy quake online then this game may be for you but keep in mind it does not have the eye candy to match other FPS. If your a war sim guy then hang up the gloves on this one they went away from that path years ago.

Originally posted by Szyporyn

It's a really open environment - the game offers and delivers in return what you put into it.

Sadly as of lately people have not put too much into it, and don't get the awesome game in return that it can be.

Hm, you are right with your first sentence - (and several patches ago)

Unfortunately the environment isn´t that open as it used to be years before

Unfortunately the current environment doesn´t "reward" patience players - nor does the gameplay is doing so;

Unfortunately that causes more and more "fast action-kiddies" are playing, while vets are leaving and

Unfortunately - Your´e right, "fast action kiddies" doesn´t give a damn and put nothing into the game than fast arcade action

Unfortunately current environment and gameplay supporting those kiddies and that makes the game went away from a sim.

Due to it taking less teamwork to get stuff going there is a tendency that it is not as easy to get coordinated stuff going.

That is true, but that just means it takes a little bit more for us to get what we once had in terms of teamwork - still possible, and thus what you put into it is what you get in return

Originally posted by Szyporyn

Due to it taking less teamwork to get stuff going there is a tendency that it is not as easy to get coordinated stuff going.

That is true, but that just means it takes a little bit more for us to get what we once had in terms of teamwork - still possible, and thus what you put into it is what you get in return

Haha, for that you would need patience, disciplined players instead of "fast action arcade kiddies" or in other words - players from the good ol´days! The few remaining dinos (vets) are on the best way to become just don quichotes and fight against windmills. One after another will dissapear unless there are the "fast action kiddies" left - when they got bored (which can be by far faster than the old players was getting bored - and driven away from the game -) then the "convoy" simply moves to the next ego-shooter (after BGE is done).

Originally posted by Szyporyn

It's a really open environment - the game offers and delivers in return what you put into it.

Sadly as of lately people have not put too much into it, and don't get the awesome game in return that it can be.

The one thing that really irked me about the game:  it has the whole map of Europe at half scale yet all the action takes place between the FBs and the towns.  Unless you did resupply missions from further back or spawned from another city you never even saw vast expanses of the map.  It's all just fly-over country.  I don't know why they never tried to get the fight out of the towns.  Too hard to code I guess....