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Champions Online Forum » General Discussion raquo; Champions online F2P? not so much...

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31 posts found
  harvest151

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/16/06
Posts: 211

 
11/08/10 8:07:29 AM#1

Thanks to Chris Tom, Senior Staff Writer  for the article on Zam.com

==================================

 

Cryptic recently announced that Champions Online will be going free-to-play in 2011, but do they plan on appreciating their non-subscribers? Senior Staff Writer Chris Tom shares his thoughts on the topic.

When Champions Online (CO) originally made it out the door last year, there was no doubt that this was a game that needed more polish and content if it wanted to compete in the industry. While character creation and customization in CO were beyond top-notch, the game suffered from repetitive and sparse leveling content in addition to having significant problems with pacing; giving players everything they wanted in the first ten levels, but being unable to continue that rate of delivery in the levels beyond. Moving forward to a year later and, while there are still some problems with pacing in the game, the content situation has been addressed fairly significantly in the form of reworked zones (and more revamps on the way) and a few "Adventure Packs" for players to enjoy. In fact, given some more time and development, Champions Online would have done a decent job of surviving in an industry where one superhero MMORPG ought to have been good enough but, for some strange reason, we will have three by next year (City of Heroes, Champions Online and DC Universe Online).

Decent, however, is not what Cryptic wants to be, and so they've decided to make the shift from their current subscription based model to the more agile free-to-play model with dozens of microtransaction options. You can almost hear the thought process behind this shift: if Turbine could, literally, revive Dungeons & Dragons Online while also revitalizing their Lord of the Rings Online community with a revenue model shift, surely Champions Online can do the same! Unfortunately, this may not be the case if you understand the fundamental differences that Turbine and Cryptic have in dealing with their new revenue models.

This is how Executive Producer Shannon "poz" Posniewski wants to see things play out in 2011: there will be two "tiers" of players in Champions Online; Gold and Silver players. Gold players will retain their original subscription fee to gain access to everything in-game, in addition to a monthly stipend of Cryptic points to spend on microtransaction items. Silver players, on the other hand, are those who fall under the umbrella definition of not being Gold players (that is, if you don't pay a subscription fee, then you're a Silver player, case closed). Silver players will need to purchase luxury things like additional character slots, additional bags (Gold players get four, Silver players get one), specific Gold travel powers and all of the previously mentioned adventure packs.

In reality, the big difference between Gold players (the subscribers) and the Silver players (the free-to-play players who utilize CO's microtransaction store) lies in the level of customization they will have with their champions. Ability tinting and custom archetypes are strictly off limits to Silver players and, currently speaking, there are no plans to ever make them accessible except by paying a subscription fee (and becoming a Gold player). Silver players will, instead, have access to "base archetypes," which are essentially developer-created skillsets that best represent one of eight specific roles. As the Cryptic team has put it, "customization is the central theme to Gold players. . . whereas Silver players have a limited set to choose from."

And this is where things get odd.

 

You see, should a Silver player ever choose to become a Gold player for a month to fully customize their powers before reverting back to a Silver player, they will lose access to their character unless they transform that character back to one of the original eight archetypes (in other words, lose the power customization). Cryptic has also chosen to make these custom power archetypes exclusive to subscribers, so even if you plan on buying hundreds of dollars worth of other perks in the C-Store, you will never be able to gain access to the custom power archetypes that defines Champions Online for what it is.

I mentioned earlier that Turbine and Cryptic have fundamentally different ways of dealing with their players, and it is here that you can really see that difference played out. For Turbine, free-to-play was the concept of allowing players to pay for the game they love in a wide variety of ways. Both DDO and LOTRO offer alternative methods for players to enjoy their full game without needing to commit to a subscription fee. This allows players to advance along at their own time without feeling like they're "wasting" money for missing a day of playing. What irks me about Cryptic's F2P model for Champions Online is the fact players cannot experience the full game of Champions Online through microtransactions alone; there is, literally, a significant core portion of the game that will be forever cut off from F2P players.

Normally, I wouldn't have a problem with a game that tries to push its players to subscribe rather than playing for free and utilizing the C-Store for microtransactions, but because of the existence of F2P MMOs like DDO and LOTRO that truly allow players to choose how they play their MMORPG, I just can't help but think that Champions Online isn't so much free-to-play as it is offering a very robust endless free trial.

In the end, it just feels as though Cryptic is planning to treat their non-subscribing player base as second-class citizens, given the fact that they will never be able to enjoy the full Champions Online experience without subscribing. If Cryptic wants to let Champions Online make the full transition to a free-to-play experience, they should see it as offering a brand new way for players to experience the entirety of the game, and they should start by making custom power archetypes purchasable or somehow achievable without needing to subscribe. DDO and LOTRO have both proven that there is a robust community of gamers out there who are willing to pay even more money than your average subscriber, but they simply prefer to own their purchases rather than renting them temporarily via CO's subscription system.

I'm certainly not advocating that Cryptic give away their entire game for free, but this F2P shift cannot be seen as Cryptic offering two different payment methods unless players can experience the full game of Champions Online via both methods. As it currently stands, if you can't get the full experience of Champions Online without subscribing, then that's not the free-to-play that we've all come to know.

Chris Tom, Senior Staff Writer

  Obidom

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/18/06
Posts: 795

Diplomacy - The art of saying ''Nice Doggy'' while you find a big enough stick to hit it

11/08/10 8:12:44 AM#2

Where do the the 'Lifers' fit into this 'Gold' and 'Silver' standard?

I (Foolishly) got this on Lifer (plus STO...I know I know, a fool and his money are soon parted)

Played CO for about a month then got bored and log in periodically to patch the game and thats about it

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ab/Norsefire-logo.png

  bluedragonnn

Novice Member

Joined: 5/11/07
Posts: 120

11/08/10 8:16:41 AM#3
Originally posted by Obidom

Where do the the 'Lifers' fit into this 'Gold' and 'Silver' standard?

I (Foolishly) got this on Lifer (plus STO...I know I know, a fool and his money are soon parted)

Played CO for about a month then got bored and log in periodically to patch the game and thats about it

It stays the same for lifetime sub buyers, they get a free gold subscription forever. 

If you don't wanna play I'll take your account =]



Originally posted by Turdinator:
Wow. So many great points made in that post. You are a fine addition to the Athiest movement my good man. Keep up the good work and post as often as you like. It sounds like you have important/intelligent things to say.

  harvest151

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/16/06
Posts: 211

 
11/08/10 8:19:41 AM#4

Lesson learned im sure.

For those of you who do not know, Any game with the cryptic logo on it should only be purchased if it is:

A: in a bargin bin for under 10$

B: the end of the world and cryptic game discs are the post apocolyptic currency

C: it's cheaper than a new coffee table coaster set

D: if you can get them in bulk. They make snazzy room dividers -

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2453/3846487308_793b8d3620_o.jpg

  Papadam

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/09/07
Posts: 2083

11/08/10 8:23:23 AM#5

Very good article, seems like the writer really understands "free to play".

The differnce between Turbines games and CO is that DDO and LotrO have alot of content to sell where CO (and STO) have very little content so they have to sell something else... And chracter custimization is pretty much CO have so it's natural that this is where they try to make mooney.

I think they do it in a really stupid way just like SOE did with EQ2extended. They just don't get the new F2P.

If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd

  gandales

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/12/06
Posts: 418

11/08/10 8:42:11 AM#6

Something that needs to be understood is that superhero mmos are different from fantasy mmos. First, the challenge while welcome is not fundamental part of the package, there is not especial rewards or guild ranking, huge pvp ego and other things that are usually present in the most popular fantasy mmos. Until just a few years ago, CoX was all about the leveling chars to cap level and basically store them in a room for few logs now and then (it is not that is not like that now, but there is certainly more endgame content than before).

Being OP, checking dmg meters, seeing how strong is the tank or how much healing I can pull is not the common thought of the regular superhero mmo gamer. The only thing you can sell is the experience that is mostly in 2 parts:

 

1. Stories: missions, lairs and adventure packs. From those, only adventure packs are not free. They are nice addition but in no way something that can be sold for much and so often

 

2. Customization: Costumes, tinting and powers. They are giving away the first one that is probably the best feature in the game since there is no game that has that level of flexibility . Giving costumes and powers for one-time payment will be the equivalent of giving a soft lifetime subscription. Most subscribers would just drop to be silver with custom characters.

 

This comes to the issue that most people that complain about CO said that is a nice game not worth of being a recurrent $15 a month. What most people tend to forget is that you can pay $15 play for a month full, unsubscribe(easy to use time cards), play a silver style char(which btw will have its own pvp ladder) for a while and then at some point to dish another $15 when you feel that is worth taking a month of CO.

I understand that Turbine model is slightly different but they are different games in essence probably targeted to an still overlapping but different kind of gamers.

 

My take is that many people would like to play CO but not really want to pay for it, and it's cool. I have play my fair share of f2p (strangely DDO was not of my liking but I might give it another try since sometimes I might have not been in the right mood when I tried), and the usual premise is not putting money on them at least until they will they want to stick in the game.

I would love everybody play CO at their content, golds and silvers but giving away customization on onetime payment would probably kill the game, by doing that they might just go full f2p and it will give better resutls.

 

  Cik_Asalin

Novice Member

Joined: 8/29/04
Posts: 3091

11/08/10 8:45:20 AM#7
Originally posted by harvest151

Lesson learned im sure.

For those of you who do not know, Any game with the cryptic logo on it should only be purchased if it is:

A: in a bargin bin for under 10$

B: the end of the world and cryptic game discs are the post apocolyptic currency

C: it's cheaper than a new coffee table coaster set

D: if you can get them in bulk. They make snazzy room dividers -

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2453/3846487308_793b8d3620_o.jpg

Cryptic has been synonimous with snake-oil for some time, so yes.  The general public should just stay away from anything with its' logo.

  Daffid011

Old School

Joined: 1/03/04
Posts: 7652

11/08/10 10:17:13 AM#8

John Needham, CEO of Cryptic and Former VP of SOE.  The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.  That is why both companies free to play offerings are really more like endless trials to the game. 

I wonder if Zam has the stones to write the same type of article about EQ2X.

  Kamax

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/25/10
Posts: 13

11/10/10 10:09:51 PM#9

CO's free to play model is definitely off course to say the least.

 

The game has a decling population. How in the world are they going to keep, let alone attract more gold members? The game is not worth $15/month at is stands (new content over 2 hours please), and this current silver player beta is watered down to the point where does little to entice players to pay anything at all.

For a game which markets itself as a MMO with 'limitless customization', this archetype idea with forced powers and stats is a shot in the foot. What a turn off, most likely a game breaker for many.

With proper marketing and advertising they could be very successful, new power and or entire sets in c-store, or new content. Speaking of advertising I wonder if Cryptic would gamble on airing a 60 second commercial right around the Green Lantern premiere this year to grab new players.

 

The beta and ideas swriling around the forums are discouraging for existing players like myself. Perhaps we start a pool for how long until CO folds after its F2P release.....we could call it the Deadpool  lol.

  GamerAeon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/06
Posts: 567

11/10/10 10:12:09 PM#10
Originally posted by Kamax

CO's free to play model is definitely off course to say the least.

 

The game has a decling population. How in the world are they going to keep, let alone attract more gold members? The game is not worth $15/month at is stands (new content over 2 hours please), and this current silver player beta is watered down to the point where does little to entice players to pay anything at all.

For a game which markets itself as a MMO with 'limitless customization', this archetype idea with forced powers and stats is a shot in the foot. What a turn off, most likely a game breaker for many.

With proper marketing and advertising they could be very successful, new power and or entire sets in c-store, or new content. Speaking of advertising I wonder if Cryptic would gamble on airing a 60 second commercial right around the Green Lantern premiere this year to grab new players.

 

The beta and ideas swriling around the forums are discouraging for existing players like myself. Perhaps we start a pool for how long until CO folds after its F2P release.....we could call it the Deadpool  lol.

Suggest it to them they'd probably run with the ball on it

  Drachasor

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 2253

11/10/10 10:12:48 PM#11

Making the game's only selling point cost a sub is amazingly stupid of them.  I wouldn't be surprised if both CO and STO folded by the end of next year.

  SuperXero89

Elite Member

Joined: 8/16/09
Posts: 2191

11/10/10 10:12:59 PM#12

Nothing wrong with this system.  It's no less restrictive than anything seen in LoTRO or EQ2X.

  Gruug

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/03/08
Posts: 735

The more you know, the more you know you don't know.

11/10/10 10:22:25 PM#13
Originally posted by Daffid011

John Needham, CEO of Cryptic and Former VP of SOE.  The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.  That is why both companies free to play offerings are really more like endless trials to the game. 

I wonder if Zam has the stones to write the same type of article about EQ2X.

 LOTRO's "f2p" model is no different. You do not get a trully FREE game nor are you able to access the full game without paying for it. Sort of goes against that FREE-to-play terminology. So yes, it is essentially an extend trail system in which Cryptic and Turbine and Sony are hoping that people will spend real money on their products.

Now, I personally think CO is a pretty good game...although I no longer play it. Cryptic has improved and added to the game quite a bit since launch. The game is much faster paced then City of Heroes/City of Villians. Both games were developed by Cryptic and in many ways it shows. There are some shortcomings to CO, like a weak storyline, but other then that it isn't too bad. 

Let's party like it is 1863!

  Darth_Osor

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/17/09
Posts: 1080

Just because you are unique does not mean you are special

11/12/10 11:17:46 AM#14

"decent, however, is not what Cryptic wants to be".  Good news!  They don't have to worry...they'll never come close to being decent.  Maybe if they try real hard, they can reach subpar.

One comparison I didn't see when comparing to Turbine's model is the ability to earn cash shop points in game.  LotRO you can (if you're willing to do a torturous amount of grinding) unlock everything without paying a dime.

Is anyone surprised Cryptic is going to nickel and dime people more than Turbine?

  Robsolf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/21/06
Posts: 3649

Let go of my ears, I know what I'm doing!

11/12/10 11:42:39 AM#15

CO's content is so weak that the character customizer IS content.  So they're gonna pretty much take that content away from silver players.  Permanently. 

If they're hoping this will do for them what F2P did for Turbine, they're in for a nasty surprise. 

Here's what Turbine knows, that Cryptic doesn't:

If you can get, essentially, the whole game via MT's, so that you could have a full experience as an ala carte player, then EACH AND EVERY LITTLE PIECE OF ALA CARTE CONTENT HAS MORE VALUE BECAUSE OF IT.  People will be willing to pay MORE for each piece.

For example, if you buy the Lone Lands in LotRO as a free player, you'll for the most part have the same experience in the region that a sub player will.  You'll be able to play any race, any class* through that piece of content forever.

On the other hand, if you buy CO's Vibora Bay, and you'll only EVER be able to play as 1 of 8 generic archetypes, it has far less value to a customer.

Not to mention, they pretty much bone any chance that a free player might choose to pick up a few months sub here and there, like I've done with DDO.  Why bother, if you can't take advantage of the best part of the game and keep it?  So stupid that you're not even gonna be able to BUY it.

  Drachasor

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 2253

11/12/10 11:52:35 AM#16
Originally posted by SuperXero89

Nothing wrong with this system.  It's no less restrictive than anything seen in LoTRO or EQ2X.

It's certainly no less restrictive.  That's because it's a lot more restrictive.  You never decide to stop subbing in LoTRO and then get locked out of your character.  I bet the same is true of EQ2X.

  Daffid011

Old School

Joined: 1/03/04
Posts: 7652

11/12/10 3:15:04 PM#17
Originally posted by Gruug
Originally posted by Daffid011

John Needham, CEO of Cryptic and Former VP of SOE.  The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.  That is why both companies free to play offerings are really more like endless trials to the game. 

I wonder if Zam has the stones to write the same type of article about EQ2X.

 LOTRO's "f2p" model is no different. You do not get a trully FREE game nor are you able to access the full game without paying for it. Sort of goes against that FREE-to-play terminology. So yes, it is essentially an extend trail system in which Cryptic and Turbine and Sony are hoping that people will spend real money on their products.

 

Actually you can get everything in LOTRO for free.  On top of that the turbine model is designed to give players the option to pay for the game in several different ways or not pay anything if they go that route. 

This isn't my opinion of either mmos gameplay or how easy/hard it would be to earn all the content for free.  I'm just saying it is possible in the turbine model and that there are differences between the that and cryptic/soe model.

  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 5265

11/15/10 11:58:56 AM#18
  Talin

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 766

You only live once... make it count!

11/15/10 12:04:10 PM#19

I can see them limiting the power tinting abilities as that is purely cosmetic, but restricting the custom archtypes - and not even allowing one or more combinations to be "unlocked" through a points system - is shortsighted.

  gandales

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/12/06
Posts: 418

11/15/10 12:19:43 PM#20
Originally posted by Talin

I can see them limiting the power tinting abilities as that is purely cosmetic, but restricting the custom archtypes - and not even allowing one or more combinations to be "unlocked" through a points system - is shortsighted.

What is now considered are the silver archetypes, but there will be gold archetypes unlockable through c-store  which have not been described. This is just a wild guess but I am hoping that those archetypes will have some degree of customization. Still is too early  to make a judgement, the f2p model is under work/tuning so things may change a bit(or not).

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