Anyone who expected a game to succeed with Bill Roper at the helm after watching Hellgate: London ( and his company Flagshit Studios ) sink faster than the Titanic loaded with elephants was disillusioned at best and flat out nuts at worst. Count yourselves lucky if CO is even here next year.

Originally posted by Zorvan01

Anyone who expected a game to succeed with Bill Roper at the helm after watching Hellgate: London ( and his company Flagshit Studios ) sink faster than the Titanic loaded with elephants was disillusioned at best and flat out nuts at worst. Count yourselves lucky if CO is even here next year.

I don't think they can afford to just dump CO. MMOs are too big a part of Atari's portfolio - before Infogrames swallowed them up, MMOs were all they planned to make.

And really, an MMO has to be spectacularly bad to actually die. Horizons is still going (another dud published by Atari....).

Dark and Light hung on seemingly forever and without action taken in the French courts it might still be running.

TR probably only got dumped because NCSoft had several other good performers in their stable. Atari only have CO and soon STO.

As disappointing as it turned out to be, I'd be surprised if CO is shut down.

I can see it becoming F2P. I mean...I have a lot more fun, and spend more time, making my superhero. I want to try City Of Heroes but I think it is too late for me and I would rather focus on newer MMOs (i.e. Fallen Earth). DC Universe does not interest me; for some reason I think it is going to not live up to its standards. Instead they should make a Toxic Avenger MMO =)

Originally posted by WhackANewbie

Instead they should make a Toxic Avenger MMO =)

Now THAT I would play!!!

Originally posted by WhackANewbie

I want to try City Of Heroes but I think it is too late for me and I would rather focus on newer MMOs (i.e. Fallen Earth). DC Universe does not interest me; for some reason I think it is going to not live up to its standards. Instead they should make a Toxic Avenger MMO =)

CoH has been a strong and consistent performer for years and shows no sign of slowing.

And I wouldn't say it's too late for anyone to play CoH. It's very easy to get into and IMO is a far superior MMO to CO. It's much more team-oriented. Solo'ing is still feasible, but the team combat mechanics are the best of any MMO I've ever played.

Nearly every power has a secondary effect of some kind, and those can be used to interesting effect with both your own other powers and the powers of your team-mates. Since powersets vary from team to team, it keeps combat from getting boring.

CO trumps CoH on a few points, but as it stands, CoH is the better game.

Originally posted by zollen

Considering the upcoming free-2-play DC universe online, will Champions online switch to free-2-play as well in order to remain competitive??

 

Either that or the game will be shut down. It has been what, 5-6 months since release? And its almost at the same XFire level as CoX.

Pathetic.

With the number of different free trials they keep offering, it practically is f2p already.

Originally posted by WhackANewbie

I can see it becoming F2P. I mean...I have a lot more fun, and spend more time, making my superhero. I want to try City Of Heroes but I think it is too late for me and I would rather focus on newer MMOs (i.e. Fallen Earth). DC Universe does not interest me; for some reason I think it is going to not live up to its standards. Instead they should make a Toxic Avenger MMO =)

As someone already stated, it's definitely not too late to jump into CoH/CoV.  Your experience will be greatly affected by what server you choose, for example: my Heroes were on Virtue (the officially unoffical RP server) and it had one of the largest playerbase, at least Hero side.  Conversely, my Villains were on Triumph and it was practically a ghost town and impossible to find a group later on.

It's not a game full of content that will keep you hooked for years, although some people do simply for the customization in characters.  It is, however, I blast to jump in now and again running around Paragon City with super speed; my personal favorite travel power.  If you enjoyed the character customization in CO, you'll enjoy it in CoX as well.  But the roles are way more defined, though a lot of different combinations can work.  Check out the free trial, nothing to lose.

I will say here what I said on the official forums. If DCUO launches and is decent, at that time it is very likely that CO will go free to play. By decent I mean no more than the normal issue's you would expect at launch and containing around the normal ammount of content for a game at launch (CO has yet to reach the average amount of content an MMO should have at launch, there still below the minimum) and the combat is fun. If it has about the same amount of content CO had at launch, if it is fairly unplayable or if it is simply not fun to play then CO will likely remain pay to play.

But lets face it, CO is stuggling to keep subs as it is now because of it's own short commings. Add in DCUO to the mix and you will see the game either go free to play or slowly die (Which it already is doing).

Originally posted by WhackANewbie

I can see it becoming F2P. I mean...I have a lot more fun, and spend more time, making my superhero. I want to try City Of Heroes but I think it is too late for me and I would rather focus on newer MMOs (i.e. Fallen Earth). DC Universe does not interest me; for some reason I think it is going to not live up to its standards. Instead they should make a Toxic Avenger MMO =)

Hey it's never too late to try CoX - there's a big expansion with a graphics revamp early 2010, so then might be a time to give it a try. 

It just went F2P, levels 1-15

Originally posted by dhayes68

With the number of different free trials they keep offering, it practically is f2p already.

Indeed, and discounts from some retailer pretty much every week for the past month and a half. It's sad to see but it looks like they are clammering as much as they can for subs. It looks more and more like the numbers have fallen completely flat extremely fast. I mean offering a 1-15 F2P version is exactly what WAR has done and we all know the reason both games have done this.

I can only worry this is the exact fate STO will have too. If only Cryptic had focused on one of their MMOs and pooled all of their resources into that one game, rather than launch 2 MMOs within 6 months time of each other.

Originally posted by kikinchaz

Originally posted by dhayes68

With the number of different free trials they keep offering, it practically is f2p already.

 

Indeed, and discounts from some retailer pretty much every week for the past month and a half. It's sad to see but it looks like they are clammering as much as they can for subs. It looks more and more like the numbers have fallen completely flat extremely fast. I mean offering a 1-15 F2P version is exactly what WAR has done and we all know the reason both games have done this.

I can only worry this is the exact fate STO will have too. If only Cryptic had focused on one of their MMOs and pooled all of their resources into that one game, rather than launch 2 MMOs within 6 months time of each other.

There also developing another game which would be announced this year.

I don't think the free trial or offers mean anything, i mean look at all the p2p games in the last two years...ALL of them are doing it. AOC and WAR have unlimited free trials, fallen earth and champions have been hosting free trials alot and many of the game have been offered for lower prices.

Originally posted by Gabby-air

Originally posted by kikinchaz

Originally posted by dhayes68

With the number of different free trials they keep offering, it practically is f2p already.

 

Indeed, and discounts from some retailer pretty much every week for the past month and a half. It's sad to see but it looks like they are clammering as much as they can for subs. It looks more and more like the numbers have fallen completely flat extremely fast. I mean offering a 1-15 F2P version is exactly what WAR has done and we all know the reason both games have done this.

I can only worry this is the exact fate STO will have too. If only Cryptic had focused on one of their MMOs and pooled all of their resources into that one game, rather than launch 2 MMOs within 6 months time of each other.

There also developing another game which would be announced this year.

I don't think the free trial or offers mean anything, i mean look at all the p2p games in the last two years...ALL of them are doing it. AOC and WAR have unlimited free trials, fallen earth and champions have been hosting free trials alot and many of the game have been offered for lower prices.

Yeah lol I'm not holding my breath on there next MMO lol. So far they did a terrible job with CO and it's not doing very well. Things look the same for STO as well.

There next one is supposed to be a Neverwinter Nights based MMO, or at least so I've heard oO. And there's simply no way they can pull it off. Biowares big on detail and the reason there games were popular were because of the detail, quality and story. Cryptic is deffinetly not very strong when it comes to story. The detail and quality can be seen in there costumization but the content in there games don't have much quality or detail.

I truly hope Cryptic isn't working on a Neverwinter Nights based MMO because if they are, it will likely be the death of the franchise. Bad enough that most have to worry about Cryptic killing the chance of a Star Trek MMO comming out in our lifetime. I don't mean the Reskinned Champions online there working on either I mean a real Star Trek MMO lol.

Originally posted by GrayGhost79  

 And there's simply no way they can pull it off. Biowares big on detail and the reason there games were popular were because of the detail, quality and story.

Just letting you know.. Bioware didn't make NWN 2, although obviously they made the engine that the game was created on.  You were saying plural game(s), and figured I'd throw that out there.

And the Winter event....... It's not even funny, they got us doing the Tako event all over again but this time with a huge teddy bear that has horrible costume drops & stupid presents to open up around the game to try and find pieces for vanity pets. And all this for what for them to sell it later in the cryptic store. I had high hopes for this MMO but i feel like they are going to offer us lifers the CS for free and maybe some other perk's and eventually go the F2P route cause no one really needs a server critic, you can tell by looking at the shards in-game that no one is interested in this game any more.

Originally posted by Lord_Ixigan

Originally posted by Legato89

It feels like a F2P game, has the makings of a F2P game, has the former maker of a failed F2P game, I dont see why not.

 

And a somewhat successful P2P. Funny that City of Heroes is still more respected than Champions. To be honest they shouldn't have even bothered making another super-hero mmo.

I had just read about the trial of 1-15 free and tried the game for the first time and was immediately unimpressed with what I saw.  For one this game is so similar to COH that you get the feeling there was some bitterness on Cryptics part and an attempt to go directly at the COH player base.  Now having said that I think they also failed miserably at that task, graphically this game isn't much better than COH and I have yet to see anything in CO that would make me prefer it over the other.

 I hope the makers of both Marvel Online and DCU avoid the pitfalls that both NC and Cryptic fell victim to and that is the overall feel of the game, the best way for me to put it I think is while most of us grew up reading and loving comics like X-Men,Dark Knight,WildC.A.T.S. they both made a game based on "Archie" comics.  Both game worlds are as lame and cheesy as they come and I wonder how many people really want that.

Oh I can see a place for some campy material but this game as well as COH are full of it and there is largely nothing about either game that makes you feel like a particularly "cool" hero (maybe it's just me but I can only suspend my ego so much).

Again I'm not so sure if the issue is that the industry can't use another Super hero mmo as much as it certainly can do without such similarly built games especially when they are both as cheesy as these games are.

I've always found DC to be a bit more campy than Marvel comics on the surface but once you get into the books you find alot of the stories and some of the characters are just as interesting if not more so and I hope they avoid the mistakes made by both NCsoft and Cryptic and give us a game world that is interesting and cool as well.

If I was not a part of the STO beta I would truly fear for that game after having played this and I suspect that this game is a prime candidate to follow the DDO model adopted by Turbine and make this game f2p sooner than lot's of other games out there that this question is being asked about, and I for one hope so because after playing this game for a few hours I can say it's a shame that people arer actually paying a premium sub fee for what they get.

Originally posted by Lord_Ixigan

And a somewhat successful P2P. Funny that City of Heroes is still more respected than Champions. To be honest they shouldn't have even bothered making another super-hero mmo.

Yes they should. They had the license from Marvel at that would have sold a lot. But of course when Marvel didn't like what they saw and backed out they were kinda screwed.
 

But they had the choice between revamping CoX or selling it and start again with the stuff they already had, and we all know that revamps are a dangerous thing to do *cough* SWG *cough*.

CoX is aging and can't keep players forever. However did CO probably launch a year too early or 2 to take over all the players and it should have been more different from the first game.

But i would fear DCU if I was Cryptic or NC soft, for one thing is the art of DCU made by Jim Lee, creator of Gen 13 and one of the most famous Marvel artists.

Of course can it also be that Cryptic focused their efforts on STO and NWNO and just released the game they worked on with as little extra work as possible, the other 2 have a better potential for subs but it would probably be stupid to cancel a game they already put so much work and money in. That Forgotten realms IP is gold worth.

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by Gabby-air

Originally posted by kikinchaz

Originally posted by dhayes68

With the number of different free trials they keep offering, it practically is f2p already.

 

Indeed, and discounts from some retailer pretty much every week for the past month and a half. It's sad to see but it looks like they are clammering as much as they can for subs. It looks more and more like the numbers have fallen completely flat extremely fast. I mean offering a 1-15 F2P version is exactly what WAR has done and we all know the reason both games have done this.

I can only worry this is the exact fate STO will have too. If only Cryptic had focused on one of their MMOs and pooled all of their resources into that one game, rather than launch 2 MMOs within 6 months time of each other.

There also developing another game which would be announced this year.

I don't think the free trial or offers mean anything, i mean look at all the p2p games in the last two years...ALL of them are doing it. AOC and WAR have unlimited free trials, fallen earth and champions have been hosting free trials alot and many of the game have been offered for lower prices.

 

Yeah lol I'm not holding my breath on there next MMO lol. So far they did a terrible job with CO and it's not doing very well. Things look the same for STO as well.

There next one is supposed to be a Neverwinter Nights based MMO, or at least so I've heard oO. And there's simply no way they can pull it off. Biowares big on detail and the reason there games were popular were because of the detail, quality and story. Cryptic is deffinetly not very strong when it comes to story. The detail and quality can be seen in there costumization but the content in there games don't have much quality or detail.

I truly hope Cryptic isn't working on a Neverwinter Nights based MMO because if they are, it will likely be the death of the franchise. Bad enough that most have to worry about Cryptic killing the chance of a Star Trek MMO comming out in our lifetime. I don't mean the Reskinned Champions online there working on either I mean a real Star Trek MMO lol.

 

I can gauge mostly by your tone that I'm not going to change your mind about the Star Trek mmo (basically you seem to point to the amount of people who are unhappy with production but mostly avoid coming straight out and saying you are stuanchly among that group) but I don't agree.  for one while the STO game has many detractors possibly more than this game it is also a much more well known IP hence you will see more people talking about it, having said that I have to add while there are many people complaining about the game there are just as many of us defending it (myself included).

For one all companies basically "skin" there games as I've stated many times before as an avid mmo player I can walk into a room and see a person playing an mmo I've never played and if it is made by the right people I'd know right away and that's true of SOE,FC,Turbine,Cryptic as well.  Personally it doesn't bother me if a well made game is put out and from what I've seen of STO one will be.

I have no illusions of granduer I know many mmo players will whine and moan about this game but I will certainly argue that it will be both a successful game and a fun one too.  I as well as more than half of the community of mmorpg I'd suspect do not play any of our favorite games full time anymore so I often question peoples perception that if a game can't keep you subbed "forever" it is a failure.  If I buy an mmo for the same price as an offline game and find it fun enough to sub for one month beyond the first free one I feel the game has done it's job (by me of course) no that doesn't help the company that created it but that is also not my problem.  I think though STO will keep me subbed for more than one month beyond the free one and what's more I think they will not have a problem bringing in new players steadily enough to make this game profitable for themselves and as such a success to the company.

While I see far too many of us with "elitist" attitudes about gaming I can't control what anyone else likes anymore than they can control what I like and as such I won't go out of my way trying to convince people anymore other than to state my point of view and basically I'm saying don't expect STO to go the way of Champions because it won't while virtually no one defends Champions (and how could they) there are many staunch supporters of what Cryptic is doing with STO and they seem to have the game set up for very quick development and content addition and Cryptic if nothing else has always put out a quality working product which in the current mmo market I hate to say is a can't miss.

Originally posted by jaxsundane

I can gauge mostly by your tone that I'm not going to change your mind about the Star Trek mmo (basically you seem to point to the amount of people who are unhappy with production but mostly avoid coming straight out and saying you are stuanchly among that group) but I don't agree.  for one while the STO game has many detractors possibly more than this game it is also a much more well known IP hence you will see more people talking about it, having said that I have to add while there are many people complaining about the game there are just as many of us defending it (myself included).

For one all companies basically "skin" there games as I've stated many times before as an avid mmo player I can walk into a room and see a person playing an mmo I've never played and if it is made by the right people I'd know right away and that's true of SOE,FC,Turbine,Cryptic as well.  Personally it doesn't bother me if a well made game is put out and from what I've seen of STO one will be.

I have no illusions of granduer I know many mmo players will whine and moan about this game but I will certainly argue that it will be both a successful game and a fun one too.  I as well as more than half of the community of mmorpg I'd suspect do not play any of our favorite games full time anymore so I often question peoples perception that if a game can't keep you subbed "forever" it is a failure.  If I buy an mmo for the same price as an offline game and find it fun enough to sub for one month beyond the first free one I feel the game has done it's job (by me of course) no that doesn't help the company that created it but that is also not my problem.  I think though STO will keep me subbed for more than one month beyond the free one and what's more I think they will not have a problem bringing in new players steadily enough to make this game profitable for themselves and as such a success to the company.

While I see far too many of us with "elitist" attitudes about gaming I can't control what anyone else likes anymore than they can control what I like and as such I won't go out of my way trying to convince people anymore other than to state my point of view and basically I'm saying don't expect STO to go the way of Champions because it won't while virtually no one defends Champions (and how could they) there are many staunch supporters of what Cryptic is doing with STO and they seem to have the game set up for very quick development and content addition and Cryptic if nothing else has always put out a quality working product which in the current mmo market I hate to say is a can't miss.

First: Please erase all irrelevant quotes, please. It makes the posts hard to read and fills the forum with loong repeated posts.
 

Secondly: A Star trek MMO is very hard to pull off in a good way. I am not saying that they can't do it (that is impossible to truly know until release) but I won't bet any money on them.

I think that Neverwinter nights online is a more likely success for them. A D&D based MMO is not that hard to make and the original game waould need that much fixing to work as a MMO. Forgotten realms is one of the most popular IPs there is and while ST is at least as big I think it will be a lot harder to make the fans happier with that than with NWNO.

So my bet for Cryptics big MMO is NWNO. Heck, it is actually hard to botch that game after Biowares first game, even Obsidian could make a half decent NWN game. 

Star trek is probably one of the hardest IPs you can choose (and every single ST game I seen have sucked badly). That doesn't mean that I hope it will fail of course but I am not sure I see anyone pull that off, not even companies like Blizzard and Bioware that makes everything into bestsellers.