The limit cap and heavy instancing is not the main problem (even though I dont like that either). The problem is that there is little in this game that needs a group to do and those few that exist give crappy rewards hence most people solo.

Even the PvP is mostly a solo affair as it is deathmatch everyone for himself style. There are rarely any objectives or goals that need you to work together.

Whoever designed this game designed it mainly as a single player experience with some group content tacked on as afterthought. AoC, WAR, WoW all had much more group content, even though they have alot of instances as well.

As has been mentioned CoH has since brought in Villains (maybe not particulalry well realised (or villainous) perhaps but nevertheless an important element of choice and rp consistent contention has been incorporated into the game and provides an alternate path for the player (also a ready and thematically consistent justifcation for pvp and further development is in the offing with 'going rogue').) Contacts are themed in CoH, your choices affect the enemies you face and the origins you can conisder your foil, your choice of AT affects the storyline you are taken along and the intrusiton of the larger arc on your day to day progess is different depending on what you are..... in fact these aren't unique to CoH and are pretty much the norm for the older mmo's - we barely even consider these as options but they exist and present some degree of consequence and variety, the notable aspect here is that ALL of these are absent in CO and the game makes no effort to compensate....the importance and prioity placed on the story and theme is actively worse in CO than any other mmo I can think of - not by factors of a premature release (ooh errr missus) or technological restrictions but rather by a deliberate cynical design.

At the end of the day CoH, WoW, AoC for all their faults are better (more appealing) than the sum of their raw parts because the theme is consistent enough to offer greater depth to what they are....... CO's design actually works to undermine and restrict the theme from working its magic, you can have fun playing it, the square peg can be made to fit through that round hole but the extra effort needed sees many a player less invested and involved in the spirit of an mmo, less interested in rp, in grouping, in making the whole experience work.

Best review of CO

http://www.gametrailers.com/user-movie/champions-online-review/330137

Great looking game, fun combat and nice (but limited) story.

Is it better then CoX? I would say its new with some combat enhancements...all and all I feel its the same game.

Originally posted by tyanya

At the end of the day CoH, WoW, AoC for all their faults are better (more appealing) than the sum of their raw parts because the theme is consistent enough to offer greater depth to what they are.......

Again with only half the picture. I understand its easy to pick one very narrow aspect of any game and talk about how other games have done better, but without even mentioning the game's strengths its not even showing a fraction of the whole. If a consistent theme is ALL you care about then you have a point, but many of us (hell I'd bet most of us), are a lot more forgiving of consistency and just want a fun game to play that can keep us entertained.
 

Story aside (which not everyone cares about and is purely subjective anyway) CoH is better for grouping only, but nothing else. Certainly not for crafting, variety of tasks, or character development choices. Not for depth of the world mechanics, graphics, server architecture, or any other technical aspects.

WoW is just an all around good game, but its not super hero and most people are sick to death of it already. But even technically, it is inferior. Out dated server architecture, no open missions, players are restricted to classes, very limited travel powers, out dated graphics engine, slow combat.

AoC has inferior world design (twice as much loading as CO), overly fiddly combat interface (simon says), poor AI, and again, its not super hero. You can't exactly recommend a fantasy game to someone asking about super heroes!

CO's strengths are in the combat system and how it mixes player skill and quick tactical decisions. Its has strong character development by offering lots of choices, more than any class based game. It doesn't make you wait 14 boring levels  of ground pounding to get your travel power. It has the Nemesis system which is awesome and perfect for the super hero genre of game. Server architecture is great since you never end up on a different server from your friends and you can always find people around. There are so many technical advancements contained in this game and most of them go unnoticed (and obviously unappreciated) by many.

So sure, get all hung up on the campy and somewhat inconsistent theme of the game world. I can only hope you find enjoyment in one of the other games in this genre. I am sure that some day CO will have villainous options. Until then I am happy to enjoy what the game has to offer rather than harp on what it doesn't.

Originally posted by Aganazer

Originally posted by tyanya

At the end of the day CoH, WoW, AoC for all their faults are better (more appealing) than the sum of their raw parts because the theme is consistent enough to offer greater depth to what they are.......

 

Again with only half the picture. I understand its easy to pick one very narrow aspect of any game and talk about how other games have done better,.....

I am dealing with the part of the picture that the title of this thread asks ie 'Has the game failed the Super Hero Genre' and on imo in every important level it has - it's precisely in the conviction and commitment to the theme that CO shortcomming relative to other mmos are most apparent - not because, as in the case of other games mentioned, it tries but doesn't quite succeed but more worryingly because it doesnt even try.

The only control CO give in terms of character development is superficial, the only aspect of the game that is in any ways superheroic is the skin that has been applied, the world mechanics, such as they are are grossly generic and more often than not arbitrary and even inappropriate to that theme - frequently demanding that you leave npc's in peril or you will never progress - personal investment at the expense of any conviction in the world is hardly heroic but this game gives you no choice. No other game mentioned or to my knowledge so comprehensively excludes the player from any degree of control of his journey and no other game I have experienced makes it so plain and obvious how entirely superfluous and ineffectual their presence is.

CO's strength is its purely its avatar customisation, the free power selection in this implementation is definitely a double edged sword, the combat system is also a case of 6 of one half a dozen of the other, the nemesis concept is cool but the implementation lacks any imagination whatsoever, the world mechanics are dismal and simplistic by any mmo's standards - I believe you are right in saying that the techincal advances are probably being overlooked but I would suggest this is a direct consequence of the the lack of commitment to the theme which ensures any depth is relagated to something irrelevent and optional to the core theme - ie they are easy to overlook, more often than not in CO content is peripheral to and disconnected from the theme because the design hasnt afforded that theme any priority

I'm sorry but CO feels in many ways just like CoH/CoV to me without me feeling all that super, I can have powers I can't fully use, and I may never fully use cause I just can't get the end and int I need to open them up fully while still being true to my character. The crafting is absolutely my least favorite aspect of the game, as it often breaks down to a grind of I make this item, then I break it down. I earn item x from a quest and I break it down, I sell or use items from other schools for money and stats, so I can break down the ones in the school I use. Then I hit the level cap for crafting and I have to go lvl to craft again, all the while picking up crap to craft with. Yet none of these items half way make sense for my character to be using them in a story subtext, or even open text.

Yes it is pretty instance heavy with a few open world quests, and those open raid things they had in War which I hated in War and I hate in CO. Mainly because their is no control over you having people to help you, if someone way higher lvl is involved, or if everyone else bails at the end for some event then your stuck trying to take down a boss you have no chance against.

The devs swung the nerf bat to much, and they limited to much in the game lossing the spirit of the source material in the process. Did I like CO at first, yes I loved it, then it kept changing until I just started to think the game itself was flawed and not my way of looking at it.

Also I'd never compair a game I liked to tabula rasa unless it was to say tabula rasa sucked and my game ruled, considering how fast that game died.

CoX was my go to MMO for nearly 5 years even through CO's closed beta.  That said I am subbed to CO now.  People need to remember its a new game.  Average Joe is still getting their feet wet, rerolling toons, figuring out gear, zones etc. not looking to grind out group content for gear.

Long story short lets see how things play out when people are nearing cap server wide.  Meantime I'll be SCing MOBs down :p

Originally posted by Aganazer

Originally posted by tyanya

At the end of the day CoH, WoW, AoC for all their faults are better (more appealing) than the sum of their raw parts because the theme is consistent enough to offer greater depth to what they are.......

 

Again with only half the picture. I understand its easy to pick one very narrow aspect of any game and talk about how other games have done better, but without even mentioning the game's strengths its not even showing a fraction of the whole. If a consistent theme is ALL you care about then you have a point, but many of us (hell I'd bet most of us), are a lot more forgiving of consistency and just want a fun game to play that can keep us entertained.
 

Story aside (which not everyone cares about and is purely subjective anyway) CoH is better for grouping only, but nothing else. Certainly not for crafting, variety of tasks, or character development choices. Not for depth of the world mechanics, graphics, server architecture, or any other technical aspects.

WoW is just an all around good game, but its not super hero and most people are sick to death of it already. But even technically, it is inferior. Out dated server architecture, no open missions, players are restricted to classes, very limited travel powers, out dated graphics engine, slow combat.

AoC has inferior world design (twice as much loading as CO), overly fiddly combat interface (simon says), poor AI, and again, its not super hero. You can't exactly recommend a fantasy game to someone asking about super heroes!

CO's strengths are in the combat system and how it mixes player skill and quick tactical decisions. Its has strong character development by offering lots of choices, more than any class based game. It doesn't make you wait 14 boring levels  of ground pounding to get your travel power. It has the Nemesis system which is awesome and perfect for the super hero genre of game. Server architecture is great since you never end up on a different server from your friends and you can always find people around. There are so many technical advancements contained in this game and most of them go unnoticed (and obviously unappreciated) by many.

So sure, get all hung up on the campy and somewhat inconsistent theme of the game world. I can only hope you find enjoyment in one of the other games in this genre. I am sure that some day CO will have villainous options. Until then I am happy to enjoy what the game has to offer rather than harp on what it doesn't.

CO has some great features, like you mentioned, but it in its current form it should not be an MMORPG as it is essentially a single player game.

That is what makes me not able to compare it to AoC, CoX, WoW etc as they focus on teamplay where as CO focus on solo play with almost no group elements.

That is probably also a big reason why the playerbase is shrinking so fast. Why pay a montly fee for what is essentially a single player game?

Perhaps an end game will be made available in the cash shop.

Originally posted by Yamota

That is probably also a big reason why the playerbase is shrinking so fast...

This is presented as fact. What's the evidence?

 I have not played Champions.

Regarding balance in a Super Hero game, There is NO WAY everyone can be "balanced".

Read some comics. Is Wolverine "balanced" in power to Magneto who can simply pick his metalic body up and split him to pieces?

Super Heroes have never been "balanced". In a MMO this is going to be a impossible feat.

Originally posted by Nipashnaka

Originally posted by Yamota

That is probably also a big reason why the playerbase is shrinking so fast...

 

This is presented as fact. What's the evidence?

He has none.  Well, at least none that is hard evidence.  Yamota will probably try to use X-fire "stats" to make his point about "shrinking player base", as a vast majority of haters do.  However, X-fire "stats" are completely useless when using them to compare game usage to the overall gaming population because no one knows the percentage of the overall gaming population that uses X-fire.  But, usage of X-fire "stats" to compare game usage to ONLY X-fire users is appropriate.  Anyone who has studied any form of statistical analysis would understand this.

Originally posted by Aganazer

Originally posted by tyanya

At the end of the day CoH, WoW, AoC for all their faults are better (more appealing) than the sum of their raw parts because the theme is consistent enough to offer greater depth to what they are.......

 

...

Story aside (which not everyone cares about and is purely subjective anyway) CoH is better for grouping only, but nothing else. Certainly not for crafting, variety of tasks, or character development choices. Not for depth of the world mechanics, graphics, server architecture, or any other technical aspects.

...

 

Saying this does not make it so. For example, I say that each and everyone of those points are wrong.

 

...

So sure, get all hung up on the campy and somewhat inconsistent theme of the game world. I can only hope you find enjoyment in one of the other games in this genre. I am sure that some day CO will have villainous options. Until then I am happy to enjoy what the game has to offer rather than harp on what it doesn't.

...

 

I'm dubious that CO will be around that long.

 

Originally posted by rochrist

Originally posted by Aganazer

Originally posted by tyanya

At the end of the day CoH, WoW, AoC for all their faults are better (more appealing) than the sum of their raw parts because the theme is consistent enough to offer greater depth to what they are.......

 

...

Story aside (which not everyone cares about and is purely subjective anyway) CoH is better for grouping only, but nothing else. Certainly not for crafting, variety of tasks, or character development choices. Not for depth of the world mechanics, graphics, server architecture, or any other technical aspects.

...

 

Saying this does not make it so. For example, I say that each and everyone of those points are wrong.

Good job on contradicting yourself there.  As you say, "Saying this does not make it so" then you go on to say "I say that each and everyone of those points are wrong."  So, what you are saying is that what you say does not make it so either.  Therefore, you state that his points are incorrect, yet saying that does not make it so.  Therefore, based upon your statement, his points are correct.

Now, I don't agree with everything he stated (most, but not everything).  However, I am not making that statement like you are, after your logical deduction of, "Saying this does not make it so."  Good going on destroying your own argument before you even made it there.  That is pretty epic.

 

...

So sure, get all hung up on the campy and somewhat inconsistent theme of the game world. I can only hope you find enjoyment in one of the other games in this genre. I am sure that some day CO will have villainous options. Until then I am happy to enjoy what the game has to offer rather than harp on what it doesn't.

...

 

I'm dubious that CO will be around that long.

Do you got any evidence to support your thought that "CO will not be around that long"?  Or, is it just something you pulled from your derrière?

 

Originally posted by Vato26

Originally posted by rochrist

Originally posted by Aganazer

Originally posted by tyanya

At the end of the day CoH, WoW, AoC for all their faults are better (more appealing) than the sum of their raw parts because the theme is consistent enough to offer greater depth to what they are.......

 

...

Story aside (which not everyone cares about and is purely subjective anyway) CoH is better for grouping only, but nothing else. Certainly not for crafting, variety of tasks, or character development choices. Not for depth of the world mechanics, graphics, server architecture, or any other technical aspects.

...

 

Saying this does not make it so. For example, I say that each and everyone of those points are wrong.

Good job on contradicting yourself there.  As you say, "Saying this does not make it so" then you go on to say "I say that each and everyone of those points are wrong."  So, what you are saying is that what you say does not make it so either.  Therefore, you state that his points are incorrect, yet saying that does not make it so.  Therefore, based upon your statement, his points are correct.

Now, I don't agree with everything he stated (most, but not everything).  However, I am not making that statement like you are, after your logical deduction of, "Saying this does not make it so."  Good going on destroying your own argument before you even made it there.  That is pretty epic.

 That was kind of the point, Sherlock. You know, 'See? I can do that too?'

 

...

So sure, get all hung up on the campy and somewhat inconsistent theme of the game world. I can only hope you find enjoyment in one of the other games in this genre. I am sure that some day CO will have villainous options. Until then I am happy to enjoy what the game has to offer rather than harp on what it doesn't.

...

 

I'm dubious that CO will be around that long.

Do you got any evidence to support your thought that "CO will not be around that long"?  Or, is it just something you pulled from your derrière?

 Played it for a month. Found it a mess in just about every way possible. Canceled my account. Seems to me they clearly rushed it out the door to get on with STO.