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Champions Online Column: A Superhero's Discontent
MMORPG.com Columnist Jamie Skelton writes this look at some of the discontent that has been flowing around the Champions Online forums surrounding the game.
By Jaime Skelton on October 30, 2009
The first two months of Champions Online have been filled with as many explosions as an action movie. There's a loud voice of discontent among the Champ's community, a strong voice of defense for Cryptic, and a lot of confusion about the game's intended design. The mud-slinging has gone far beyond calling the negative voices in the community "whiners." In fact, some complaints have gone far enough to place the blame for all ills on the heads of specific developers So, why are the newest superheroes on the MMO scene so upset?
The spark that started the fire would likely be to look at the initial Retcon system, just before CO launched. Retcons (for those who don't follow Champions Online) are character respecs. Unlike many games that offer a clean wipe on a respec, or allow you to choose what you want to unlearn, retcons are progressive in Champions Online - you pay money for each step backward in your character's development. Initially, this retcon system was limited to your last 10 powers, meaning a mistake in building at level 20 could not be rectified at level 40. Your only options were to live with the power, or re-roll a character.
A panic arose in the community. Then went out the battle cry: "Champions Online will fail without full respecs!" Beneath all the heat of the debate were two camps. There were those who thought 10 points were fair, and, if that wasn't enough, the player needed to learn to research their character concept better and re-roll. Then there were those who argued that Champs had built a system that required respecs, and forcing permanent builds on a time-invested character would result in a mass of canceled subscriptions. But, as Cryptic reassured, full retcons would eventually become available and the community settled.
For a little while, at least.
As players started reaching max-level during early access, and even during the first week of the game, a new worry arose: what was left for a game in which players could reach level 40 so easily? After two months, the "life after 40" issue isn't looking better to the community. Content at level 40 is very limited, and in some aspects a grind, leaving players who reach the level cap few options other than to re-roll a character - they will go through the same missions with little variation or new things to see. There are a lot of issues under debate here: whether a new MMO should have end-game content ready at launch, whether end-game should be the destination, and what kind of content should even be at end-game when it's reached. Once again, the attitude of "re-roll or go home" was voiced in these discussions.
Then the C-Store updated its item listing on October 19, and there appeared what was in the hopes of some, and the fears of many. They made a full character retcon available for $12.50. It isn't that the community was opposed to a full retcon at this point - its tone toward that has changed some in the past two months - but rather, that the cost seems outrageous, comparable by only a few dollars to the monthly subscription fee itself. Although the fact remains that players can retcon their way back with in-game money, and Cryptic has said that they plan on offering a full respec at some point (likely to level 40s), the anger is directed instead at the cost. The community (and those outside of it), had been concerned about the double/triple-dipping scheme of a box charge, plus a subscription fee, plus micro-transaction. Their concerns were now being realized. Although the heat has died a little on this discussion, there is still a great worry about a $12.50 charge for something that's reported to be somewhat easy to obtain in-game.
To add one last log to the pile, enter Blood Moon, a newly launched "expansion" that came with a great deal of hype. Yet the expansion was launched with a two hour timer on public missions (now reduced to thirty minutes), little documentation for players wanting to begin the event, and the same map utilization for all thirteen of the Undead Heroes that served as the perks that lead up to unlocking the new Celestial power set. Many players have voiced feeling cheated that the content update offers them little in terms of permanent content, and is a slap in the face for those waiting for current issues to be fixed.
;)
From an outsider looking in, the issues with Champions Online look damning. What's more interesting to me, however, is the way the community is forming, growing out of its infancy, and defining, albeit somewhat slowly, what it wants.
The issue of retcons is interesting. Certain players have expressed rather vividly that they not only want, but expect, the ability to freely retcon a character at a moderately reasonable cost. There's no reason to expect that out of a game that didn't promise it from the start, of course. These expectations come from previous experiences with other MMOs. The idea of a free respec isn't an industry standard, either; many games possessed linear character progression with no roll-backs, a few do charge item shop fees for respecs, and some have a very limited system which does encourage frequent rerolling and alts - without complaint from their respective communities. It's hard yet to say which way the game will turn, toward end-game content or toward the character journey to max level, but it does seem that the community is leaning toward the support of the journey, and not the destination.
Despite the mass of trolls lurking the Champions Online forums, there are a number of thoughtful supporters of the game. Although some seemed concerned that the player base is playing the middleman too much, the fact that Cryptic does respond to the feedback from its player base does indicate a good start to a healthy community relationship. Here, too, early expectations come into play. There is a strong expectation that Cryptic will listen to and address the feedback put out by the community, and when they do not, or take longer than the community expects, the community expresses a kind of "I told you so" indignation.
At this point in time, it's hard to tell if the community is going to support Champions Online and help build it into a solid game with a good community. There are simply too many early nay-sayers to tell, and only time will tell if the game - and its community - can work out its issues. If it does, though, I think the Champions Online community will be strong, active, and around for years to come.
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I actually tried to cancel my preorder when I heard rumors of what might be the method for retcons in the furture. Sadly fileplanet did not feel they owed me one so I played at launch. So so many problems in this game. This article covers some, but wow, lack of content, WORST PVP BALANCE to ever grace any mmo, and broken powers that as of now have had no response from cryptic other than we are looking in to it.
I actually lol when I first saw the prices of the retcon in the item shop. I had already canceled so to me it was sorta a well thats the straw that broke the camels back for the customers. To me, the game is in a dire position, the last day I logged in there was literally less than a thousand people across all areas in all instances.
The writing is on the wall Champions is simply funding for Star Trek online. The lack of content, speed at which thinks are addressed and the ehem PRICING SCHEME scream quick lick to fund the projects they care about, no thanks.
There are two problems with the game. One is that Cryptic doesn't seem to know what they really want it to be. The second is the extreme shallowness of the game itself and the minimal content it contains.
It does feel like it was made because Cryptic needed to milk some money out of the work they had already done with their Marvel game that was stopped.
Game felt like a superhero game initially but the content had not been made for the kind of blowthrough stuff you expect from playing a superhero and there were so little of it that Cryptic felt they had to extend the longivity of the little content they had by making the game less and less heroic. The end product is a game without a soul, vision or any real reason for its existence except for making money for Cryptic.
Not hard to tell which side of the fence you are on.
But then it's an editorial, not news I suppose. ;D
Very good article, and not only an accurate explanation of the retcon situation--which is ever so slowly dying down--but an accurate description of the history of the relationship between the developers and the players and how things get done. There was one line in specific which more or less sums it up:
There is a strong expectation that Cryptic will listen to and address the feedback put out by the community, and when they do not, or take longer than the community expects, the community expresses a kind of "I told you so" indignation.
Cryptic has a habit of letting things get to an almost catastrophic point before addressing them. Case in point: the Powerhouse. For a long time, ever since Closed Beta, people were complaining about certain aspects of the Powerhouse (the history behind how the Powerhouse itself came to be is yet another example, but another story for another day). Anyway, people were upset about the dueling in the lobby, and the lack of a "Danger Room-esque" feature, where we could have real battle simulation. When it started, power testing was nothing more than shooting stationary dummies just to see what your power looked like--no real testing.
It stayed this way for months, even through all of the complaining and begging for change. After launch, that begging escalated exponentially. It became one of the biggest issues in the playerbase. We'd made up our minds that the Powerhouse *needed* to be changed, period.
When the time finally did come that changes were announced, there was yet another issue that arose from that. The game was--and still is--in its infancy and people were looking at the bigger picture. There were arguably more important things to worry about than people getting upset about dueling in the powerhouse and not being able to properly test powers. Things needed to be looked at on a fundamental level. So after that discussion/argument/flamefest got under way, we were given a response by the dev team.
We were told that the team was going to work on things based on *our* priorities, and what the community decided needed to be done, even if there are bigger things to worry about. Yes, we were told that whatever we whined about was more important than any outstanding core issues with the game. I'm not sure whether or not they realized it then, but they effectively handed the forum community the answer to the test: Whine the loudest and you'll have your way.
It's not only that that's the issue, but the fact that certain things, like redesigning the powerhouse (relatively small compared to other things in the game), are left alone until they blow up. Why couldn't they have addressed those issues with the PH during Closed Beta when they first came up? Why let it sit for months if they were going to end up "fixing" it anyway? And, more importantly, why let the small things sit so long that they begin to take priority over key issues that need to be looked at?
Tbh honest I can't see how you can slant this any other way. There are so many issues with the game even if you like it you want it to improve and its not, simple as that.
I bought the 6-month subscription and now completely wish I hadn't. I figured CO could at the least provide some entertainment, however I never log in anymore even with this new lack of content expansion.
I rather beta test Alganon and what an awlful game that is, rather then play this "finished" product.
I can only hope STO beta invite happens soon so I can play that for a bit and see how bad cryptic will blow it.
I have read quite a bit about their view on retconn, and in fact I think the Dev's want it to be rare, so people are not changing their powersets every two weeks to the flavor of the month. This is a by product of allowing players choose any powers they want and not confining them to "classes".
I think the player base expectation here is unwarranted, and I think the trolls like to create the perceived panic. I have played from the start, and I have received a total of 4 total respecs free, I have spent no money at all and have been able to adjust any one of my heroes.
As far as the content of the game, it has exactly the same amount or more content all of the other MMO's I have played at launch. Planetside, WoW, PotBS, LotrO, EQ2, DaoC, Warhammer Online, Coh/Cov, ok maybe not Eve.
I think this game is on par with anything else out there of the same age, and they have shown they will add content in a steady fashion.
I think Cryptic should not sweat the forum mongers.
I am so glad I did not buy this game after beta. I was hoping that it would get better over the next few months but now I think I just pass on it for good.
that's what i keep saying in the forums "theirs 3 frigging ways to retcon! ingame resources, the free dev retcon they said they would still give out and the c-store...and their working on a retcon mission as well. Good lord people take a valum!"
Still the game is disapointing. Expecially the new event
take wolf vs hunter pvp, and zombie pvp. You need to get 100 kills of the other side BY YOURSELF (team kills dont count you have to 'tag' the opponent) PER character (despite claims they are account wide)
if you do the math that's 300 pvp kills for a event perk, per character, durring a time limited event.
please somebody shoot me.
i got this game 10 days ago, 9 out of 10 of thoes days the game was unplayeable for some reason or other during most of the day.
not to mention the complete lack of team oriented content, is more like a middle class singleplayer game with MP battles then a MMO
Microtransactions and monthly subscriptions is the new level of greed in the MMORPG genre. Before the game was released the devs told us that the microtransactions would only be used for superificial stuff like new costume pieces. But now instead they are offering something that is quite important amongs the rampant nerfing/buffing of powers that is going on.
Too bad really, cause this game held some great promise with some innovative features. But Cryptic has shown its true face and this does not bode well for Star Trek Online. Most likely they will try something similar there.
They keep shooting them selfs in the foot. Free weekend says just how the game is going. To have to PAY for something you already PAY for is a slap in the face.
*raises the pimp hand*
no, get that idea out of you head NOW.
paid-cons are not the only one way to fix a "nerfed build"
the devs will still give out freetcons, you can buy one in game, theirs a mission in the works AND the C-Store
GAWD DAMN PEOPLE.
Wow, do I pity the lifetimers...
You wonder why people consider MMORPG a bad site. Pretty much an opinionated person saying there opinion is news.
hahahahhahahahahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We warned you over and over. We told you they woukd do this. We didn't preach doom and gloom, just cryptic's track record with the MT's and NC-soft's support of the "fleece them for ever penny" model. But the fanboy's railed and ranted. We got drowned out. Where are you now life-timers? Where are you now. This is just MORE proof that rats in a maze will still seek the cheese. Strive to be above this. Tell bill roper you will not sit by and watch his greed and lack of management skills destroy another game. Boycott now, force Roper out and get someone who gives a crap about fun and community.
I understand they are in this to make money. But justifying that of a loan shark or a bookie, is no justification at all. Greed is greed.
(EDIT)
I know this really seems like another "I told you so" post or pure indignation... It is. I f'in earned it. After the tons and tons of posts over in the CO forums, that were not railing against this company. I was and much of the community was largely ignored. We posted positive constructive critisism, WITH potential solutions. We fufilled our role as testers to a key-note. We were ignored totally. We have a right at this point to say we warned you. We did. and often. You as Cryptic and you player base suckered into lifetimes and multi-months need to hold the people responsible for their actions. Cryptic board, roper, and the senior design staff. Boycott and change what you can. This is a free society, don't just rant about it, do something! It IS in your power! Cancel. demand your money back. Flood the CS lines. MAKE THEM NOTICE YOU.
"The tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of Patriots and Tyrants." Thomas Jefferson
Games produced by atari, not NCSoft, but still yeah, really sucks they're starting to pull this on their fanbase. Again, you guys don't have to buy this stuff.... but I suppose with little content left, what else do you have to do other then mess around with stuff? I hope they get you guys some updates soon, this game could've been great!
The saddest thing ? You still get shouted down if you try and point out any of this (or any other part of Cryptics track record) about STO....expect more of the same. You may not be able to fool all the people, all the time; but MMO companies sure are proving you can stay profitable fooling just enough of the people over and over.
I don't mean to derail this thread, but could someone explain something to me, what I have been wondering about for a long time:
What is so technically challenging about resetting skill points, changing char appearance, class, race, sex or any other player customizable parameter?
I don't know who started this, but it seems an obvious money making scheme. As the editor wrote, having free (in terms of real world money) respecs is something players have come to expect from any game that makes use of skill trees. To not include it and then to charge for it through a cash shop is just taking the piss.
In this case, Cryptic charges in the same region as what I would expect to pay for a medium size content upgrade. Does it really take as many man hours to create 50 new quests, a couple of new dungeons, bug fixes and maybe a new game mechanic or two as it takes to build a piece of code that resets the skill points for a character?!
Until someone convinces me of the contrary, I'm calling this BS and a blatant and arrogant rip-off!
PS.: I don't currently play any MMOs, so it does not affect me personally. It's more a matter of general principle.
honestly I think they were hopping that a lot of the CoXs fans converted and would be satisifided with an updated CoH basicly. but who knows exactly thats just the way it seems to me. played a bit of the beta, and it was just too close to CoH for my taste. The RMT were never an issue with me. WoW (yes WoW has RMT imo) is proving with there side/sex/race change options that RMT are going to be the wave of the future.As long as I dont have to pay for every little bit of content of a game is fine by me.
I love the "hate" posts from people who never even bought the game, Cryptic must have kicked your kitty or something to hold them in such contempt, but never actually buy their product.
And I really love the dis-information spread so quickly, the C-store is an extension to what you can earn in the game, each and every item has an in game attainable avenue, the c-store is more for the casual, or lazy (two very different gamers). I find it refreshing for a company to address so many different ways to get additional content into the game.
C-Store is a second option, if you are going to write something, at least do a little research before putting your foot in your mouth.
Still playing, and still having a great time.
Am I the only one who applaudes cryptic for charging so much for something you can get free in game? Congratulations to them for doing what should be done! Lazy people deserve to spend and arm and a leg >.>
Nope I didn't buy the game. Check my post history and the pictures in my profile, I played through the game enough in beta that I just couldn't play through the same content one more time. This is just the beginning of the C-Store, but the C-Store isn't the main problem with CO at this time. Its lack of content - easily. I just don't understand why the C-Store would ever be necessary with the content the way it is, I would think the only thing left worth earning would be the items in the C-Store that you can still actually get (minus the items that are C-Store only items... who knows how many of those there are).
Anyways, glad you're having a great time. I don't think I'll be buying this game unless they really add some great updates.. Fallen Earth has pretty much taken me away until SWToR comes out, but if they add content for CO I might sub for a month to try it.
LOL. Hypocrite.
Can you lay out how I "obtain" the costume pieces & the emblems?
Not every, smart stuff.
LOL. Hypocrite.
Can you lay out how I "obtain" the costume pieces & the emblems?
Not every, smart stuff.
Yeah seriously, they saved back all these cool costume pieces for the item shop. DON"T say this is like city of hero's because as a vet I would point out the fact they only released such promo's when a new version of the boxed game was released for the most part. Cryptics prices border on crazy and YES i bought the game and played through beta and part of my sub.
I don't care how many ways they say you can obtain a retcon. What they are doing is using retcons as a additional money making device which is shady. If you pvp you know just how bad the balance is and guess what? This simply allows the MIN/MAXERS a way to get their FOTM builds at a huge premium price wise for the company. Before you say but look at the free retcons! Yup tell me how many of those they release to you in the next few months. My bet would be on very few if any.
I bought the 6-month sub and just can't bring myself to log into this game anymore. I logged in the other day just to try out the Bloodmoon Event, hoping it would renew my hope in this product....no luck. Bloodmoon is easily the WORST event in my MMO history. CoX trick or treating is better than that crap.
As far as the retcons in the store, before it was done there was a thread on the official forum actually asking for this. So, I can't fault Cryptic for adding something to the store that the players actually asked for. There are a lot more stuff I can fault them for, though. Lack of content is my biggest complaint.
I have since went back to LotRO.
When I went back for the bloodmoon event , it seems that many people left the SG I was in, and the few that were left were discussing how horrible the Bloodmoon event is. The devs need to do something to save this game.
So what? How does it make it okay that the content that you can grind for is also possible to buy for RL money?
I paid a monthly subscription to the game and as such will not accept that others can buy shortcuts. That is not OK in my book.
I think the sad thruth is that most of the voices being heard are the nay sayers, not because they are in the majority but because they are just naturally more outspoken. I for one like the game. I like the new event as well, and I understand it to be an event, not an expansion. I think that it is infinitely more fun than the CoH Halloween event. And, as mentioned in the OP, many of the problems that have arisen have already been addressed. Keep in mind this game is just under two months old. I do think it will get better with time and I'm happy to stick with it.
Yeah seriously, they saved back all these cool costume pieces for the item shop. DON"T say this is like city of hero's because as a vet I would point out the fact they only released such promo's when a new version of the boxed game was released for the most part. Cryptics prices border on crazy and YES i bought the game and played through beta and part of my sub.
I don't care how many ways they say you can obtain a retcon. What they are doing is using retcons as a additional money making device which is shady. If you pvp you know just how bad the balance is and guess what? This simply allows the MIN/MAXERS a way to get their FOTM builds at a huge premium price wise for the company. Before you say but look at the free retcons! Yup tell me how many of those they release to you in the next few months. My bet would be on very few if any.
there have been 4 freetcons since launch
How many since they have been in the cash shop?
Yeah seriously, they saved back all these cool costume pieces for the item shop. DON"T say this is like city of hero's because as a vet I would point out the fact they only released such promo's when a new version of the boxed game was released for the most part. Cryptics prices border on crazy and YES i bought the game and played through beta and part of my sub.
I don't care how many ways they say you can obtain a retcon. What they are doing is using retcons as a additional money making device which is shady. If you pvp you know just how bad the balance is and guess what? This simply allows the MIN/MAXERS a way to get their FOTM builds at a huge premium price wise for the company. Before you say but look at the free retcons! Yup tell me how many of those they release to you in the next few months. My bet would be on very few if any.
there have been 4 freetcons since launch
I think he means since the release of the retcon in the store....
there have been 4 freetcons since launch
I think he means since the release of the retcon in the store....
1 (with the release of blood moon)
there have been 4 freetcons since launch
I think he means since the release of the retcon in the store....
1 (with the release of blood moon)
Ummmm, I think he means in a few months time...Not like....now.
and those of you saying "coh has no store only costumes" i counter.
"no they have worse. Buyable jetpacks on a 30 day timer. 'Origin' packs that give costumes of a lower quality then the Co 'Epic' costumes (serious compare The Sciece or Technlogy costumes to the robo beast and samurai), emotes and powers. And in one instance a enhancement to the character creator (science pack - model/gender changing))"
I didn't go all out and do an "I quit, or cancel thread" but fact is, I did cancel my CO subscription rather fast for a MMO. Hell, I played AoC longer. There are some shady market practices going on here. First the character slots.. only 8 unless you pay for more. Purposely limiting the costume options so they can sell them later. And the retcon... as is described well in this article.
But its not just that, CO for me just turned out to be a rehashed City of Heroes/Villains.. with only very slight differences.. and the majority of the differences were negative not positive.
On a plus side, CO is a visually pleasant game. It just doesn't seem to hold any long term playability for me. Then again, theres nothing out there Ive found yet (besides a seriously overplayed wow) that does.
Cryptic has really played this one "dirty" and man, I am worried for the future release of STO if the way they handled CO is a sign of whats to come.
I think he means since the release of the retcon in the store....
1 (with the release of blood moon)
Ummmm, I think he means in a few months time...Not like....now.
then he can shut his pie hole until it's been a few months since C-store was updated, not a week.
C store update 10/19
blood moon live 10/27
freespect awared with blood moon
Current date 10/30
so shut yer damn pie hole if you need "months"
"only 8?"
(or you know 16 if you signed up with a sub deal)
Last i checked CoH only gave you 8, Lotro, 6, The Realm and Ever quest 4, Wow? 6
Only 8 indeed.
"only 8?"
(or you know 16 if you signed up with a sub deal)
Last i checked CoH only gave you 8, Lotro, 6, The Realm and Ever quest 4, Wow? 6
Only 8 indeed.
I think your numbers are quite a bit off there. But hey... whateva.
I think your numbers are quite a bit off there. But hey... whateva.
oh then what are the numbers. No MMO i've played gives more then 8 character slots without some special hoops to jump through.
just checked
Lotro gives 5
+2 when then added 2 new classes
+2 if you take the siege of mirkwook offer.
So its base slots is 5
CO... 8
City of heroes gives you 8
+4 with city of villians
+1 as a vertran reward per year
Base 8
looking into WoW now..seems wow Now gives you 10, can't find the early days...i dont remember having 10 when made my night elf hunter...
/sigh I'll bite..
Two examples: WoW = 40 max across servers, CoH I can't remember exactly what the max, but I remember having a lot more then 8 across multiple servers.
It wouldn't be an issue, if one of the major selling points of CO wasn't the character creation. But lets face it, little to no endgame, and Cryptic boasted over and over about their character creation.. which is GREAT btw.. I've never knocked it. But they intentionally changed their design from multiple servers, to one universe with multiple instances to create a artificial demand for additional slots.
LotRO has endgame from what I've heard... I only played it briefly so can't really say anything about it.
CoX has some endgame.. but still had alot of replayabilty with so many slots and potential for so many different character combos.
WoW has a ton of endgame, and allows for 40 characters total across realms, which honestly is overkill because character customization is not a selling point for the title.
I bought CO, and was satisfied for what I purchased it for... a one month title. As if it was a single player game, I would have completed content within that time regardless. But no... it is not worth a subscription, and what Cryptic is doing is milking the customer base for more money for features that they had readily available for the launch. Don't be fooled. Its marketing at the basics.
If your happy with shelling out more money for features that should have been included at cost.. good for you. But it is obviously shoddy marketing practice, not only double dipping into the consumers pockets, but actually triple with all the microtransactions. If people continue to support these practices, it will only get worse. The consumer base needs to make a stand and let the developers and those who fund them know that these practices will be looked down upon by the market in general. And that the consumers expect a far better product for their money.
/shrugs
Like I said earlier, if you don't mind dishing out the money.. good for you. If ya feel like giving it away, I'll be more then happy to link my paypal account for you to donate to at your pleasure.
10 per server. 50 total.
10 per server. 50 total.
but was it like that at Launch...thats the key, i don't recall a rule of 10 back when we didnt even have lvl 60
so want a one shard world example?
Isn't that Eve?
don't they limit you to 1?
edit: 8 is a fair base. Trust me i have altist, and i only have 6 champions...
In CoX though i have 30. But i've had that game 5 years
i checked: Eve gives 3 (bit did it always?)
WoW vanilla , was a max of 40, max lvl 60. I use to race a friend of mine to 60 on every new realm that popped up. The guy was a grinding beast and go 4 days strait without sleep. lol... but yeah. WoW right out of the gate offered that.
I didn't know they upped the max amount of characters to 50. Very cool. Maybe win the expansion comes out I'll go back, burnt out atm though. Guess playing since launch can do that to ya. =)
On topic, I like Champions Online a lot, other than the fact that MA is a giant turd sandwich spec. I guess Cryptic hates melee. Whatever.
If you don't agree with the cash shop stuff, don't spend money in the cash shop. Some one complained about costume stuff in the cash shop they can't get in the sub game. Seriously, are there not enough options in game for you? There are almost too many for me.
Angry about the cash shop retcon? Don't want to spend money getting your character build perfect? Fine. Then spend some time getting it right the first time by doing some research, or spend some time doing trial and error work.
Or, get a better job, so money is not an issue for you.
I'd love to have a Lamborghini Embolado. Unfortunately, I can't afford the price tag. I guess I'll have to continue to commute in my Ford F-150. Or maybe I could start a thread somewhere complaining about what a bunch of greedy bastards the Lamborghini company executives are. I could complain that they should charge the same price as what my truck cost, so if I wanted an Embolado, I could have one. Greedy *******.
Don't make a mountain out of a mole hill. The cash shop is for people who have money to burn. The rest of us have to do things the old fashioned way. The Lamborghini is for people who have money to burn. The F-150 is for those of us who do things the old fashioned way.
so want a one shard world example?
Isn't that Eve?
don't they limit you to 1?
edit: 8 is a fair base. Trust me i have altist, and i only have 6 champions...
In CoX though i have 30. But i've had that game 5 ye
8 characters would be more then fair IF Champions wasn't all about the customization.
Eve is a good game in its own right. And allows for tons of customization, but in all reality offers way more character slots in spirit then CO. Think about it. Since in Eve the ship is your avatar. How many ships can you train to fly?
Yeah, Eve is a good example of where Cryptic has gone wrong. Thank you.
but was it like that at Launch...thats the key, i don't recall a rule of 10 back when we didnt even have lvl 60
Honestly, I don't know. I started playing WoW after The Burning Crusade had been released. But, currently, afaik, it's 10 per server and 50 total. And... drumroll please... I won't be the least bit surprised if Blizzard introduces another microtransaction to allow you to have 20 characters per server and 100 total.
This is the direction MMOs and games in general are going. Companies want to charge more than the initial buy in fee. Games have been $50 for just about as long as I can remember. If they are finding ways to create new revenue streams, I'm fine with that, as long as they continue to produce new games. I'd rather they have varied price structures for those who can afford more and those who can afford less, then to have all games just continually go up in price. We could be up to $75.00 a game or more if they went that way.
Seems to me a better business model would have been to offer RetCons for around $ 3-5 bucks each.
IMO more people would have used it then, making them more money. This price probably would not have pissed off so many people either, making them more money again with retained subs.
I just dunno what they could have been thinking.
I dont play CO atm, cancel after my 1st month was over, so i dont have a dog in this hunt.... but just sayin...
8 characters would be more then fair IF Champions wasn't all about the customization.
Eve is a good game in its own right. And allows for tons of customization, but in all reality offers way more character slots in spirit then CO. Think about it. Since in Eve the ship is your avatar. How many ships can you train to fly?
Yeah, Eve is a good example of where Cryptic has gone wrong. Thank you.
considering each charater gets 4 costume slots which DEFINE YOUR LOOK
by your logic we really get
32 "character" slots. we just can only have 8 "custom powersets" among those "32 characters"
Good points. But I have two questions for you.
If you went to buy a new F150, knowing what you know today. Went to RICART Ford , or some other dealership to buy it. And found that the new F150, had the interior of a festiva, and the engine of an escort. For the same price you paid for your last one. Would you be a happy consumer and buy it?
No.. you wouldn't. You'd walk away upset that they wasted your time.
Why then would you accept this same business practice from a software developer? The principle is the same.
Too many people have grown apathetic. To everything, marketing, life in general etc. Its a truly sad state that we have let our expected standards drop to.
you hit the nail on the head, they DON''T want players drinking retcons like kool-aid
Superman doesnt turn into batman, then captian marvel, tigra, strange fate, then Doomsday every week.
8 characters would be more then fair IF Champions wasn't all about the customization.
Eve is a good game in its own right. And allows for tons of customization, but in all reality offers way more character slots in spirit then CO. Think about it. Since in Eve the ship is your avatar. How many ships can you train to fly?
Yeah, Eve is a good example of where Cryptic has gone wrong. Thank you.
considering each charater gets 4 costume slots which DEFINE YOUR LOOK
by your logic we really get
32 "character" slots. we just can only have 8 "custom powersets" among those "32 characters"
Almost. But not really. Each of those ships provides for a completely unique play experience, so its not just the costumes, it would be the power sets as well. For example, a mining ship and a frigate have 2 different textures/costumes.. AND they provide for two completely different powersets/jobs.
In this game, he does if his owner can afford it.
The retcons can be limited by time to prevent overuse. This is a money grab, pure and simple.
In this game, he does if his owner can afford it.
The retcons can be limited by time to prevent overuse. This is a money grab, pure and simple.
oh i dunno a high price seems a good deturrent to me...especially when their are 3 ways to get it FREE in game.
But let's not muddy this thread with logic.
No.. lets not do that. Expecting logic would be asking for far too much from any gaming community. =)
considering each charater gets 4 costume slots which DEFINE YOUR LOOK
by your logic we really get
32 "character" slots. we just can only have 8 "custom powersets" among those "32 characters"
Almost. But not really. Each of those ships provides for a completely unique play experience, so its not just the costumes, it would be the power sets as well. For example, a mining ship and a frigate have 2 different textures/costumes.. AND they provide for two completely different powersets/jobs.
and (and i have experience with this) i can do the same thing in CO
usually i use about 4-5 powers (including passives)
with roughly 15 powers by lvl 40 and 5 builds i could EASILY give 1 character /3/ different power sets.
I can see where you would not want people with a RetCon used every other day.
But what my point is, from a business standpoint or " Money Grab" then they coulda made it cheaper and reasonable so people would use it some and not pissed off their community.
IMO make it reasonable to obtain in game with earned money or quest chains and forget the cash shop.
you mean like it already IS?
considering each charater gets 4 costume slots which DEFINE YOUR LOOK
by your logic we really get
32 "character" slots. we just can only have 8 "custom powersets" among those "32 characters"
Almost. But not really. Each of those ships provides for a completely unique play experience, so its not just the costumes, it would be the power sets as well. For example, a mining ship and a frigate have 2 different textures/costumes.. AND they provide for two completely different powersets/jobs.
and (and i have experience with this) i can do the same thing in CO
usually i use about 4-5 powers (including passives)
with roughly 15 powers by lvl 40 and 5 builds i could EASILY give 1 character /3/ different power sets.
Lol.. you know your grasping at straws now, don't you. Ok, I think the points on both sides of this issue have been expressed. Thats all I could hope for.
oh i dunno a high price seems a good deturrent to me...especially when their are 3 ways to get it FREE in game.
But let's not muddy this thread with logic.
You really think that for the PVP crowd, overpricing a item is a way to keep them from exploiting it LOL. Cash shop games do this type of thing all the time.. and guess what people pay and pay and pay. Each little balance tweak will result in Cryptic getting the monthly sub plus the retcon fee from any of the pvpers that want to compete. Just wait, I no longer care personally Cryptic has been added to my list of companies that can go fuck themselves along with SOE and Ncsoft. Much like NCsoft with exteel they will simply use the balance of the game to sell retcons as NCsoft used to resell weapons for cash that people had sold after a nerf. Things a bit slow don't worry simply break a few powers and watch as everyone retcons to the FOTM and then flees them like rats off a sinking ship.
I pay a monthly fee so I don't have to be milked by these trash companies but if you want to be fleeced go for it. Has nothing to do with the amount of money I have either, I often have 2 mmo subs open at a time and have had 3 games going at once. It all comes down to principle and I vote with my money. Don't think for a minute that Cryptic set the price high to deter people from using it lol, I laugh every time I see that in type.
you mean like it already IS?
If that is the case and you can obtain retcon from quests and Reasonable in game money fee then who gives a s*#t about the cash shop. Seems to me people are more worried about joe blow who will spend $50 a month on the cash shop than anything.
But they marketed the game with a cash shop in mind. Dont like it then dont play it.
just my 2cp
If that is the case and you can obtain retcon from quests and Reasonable in game money fee then who gives a s*#t about the cash shop. Seems to me people are more worried about joe blow who will spend $50 a month on the cash shop than anything.
But they marketed the game with a cash shop in mind. Dont like it then dont play it.
just my 2cp
the quest is in development but yes you can buy it in game now
they also give them out free on ocassion
4 ways
one is RTM
LOL. Hypocrite.
Can you lay out how I "obtain" the costume pieces & the emblems?
Not every, smart stuff.
--------------------------------------
Yes I can, I earned cryptic points in game, I can then spend these points on anything in the store. Another poor attempt at miss information...ask your mom to help you with the next post.
Good points. But I have two questions for you.
If you went to buy a new F150, knowing what you know today. Went to RICART Ford , or some other dealership to buy it. And found that the new F150, had the interior of a festiva, and the engine of an escort. For the same price you paid for your last one. Would you be a happy consumer and buy it?
No.. you wouldn't. You'd walk away upset that they wasted your time.
Why then would you accept this same business practice from a software developer? The principle is the same.
Too many people have grown apathetic. To everything, marketing, life in general etc. Its a truly sad state that we have let our expected standards drop to.
The unfortunate aspect of a comparison like this one is total cost. It's unfair to compare a $50 game to a $45,000 vehicle.
My comparison is an average middle income earner compared to someone who has become wealthy through hard work or luck or having been born into family wealth. The average middle income earner can likely afford the $50 game, but may not be able to afford much beyond that for the game, other than the $15 per month to play. Meanwhile, a rich or wealthy player likely can afford the $50 and the $15 and any additional fees without a wince.
I don't have a problem with someone who has more money to waste than I do wasting it on a game. Just like I don't have a problem with someone who has more money to waste than I do wasting it on a vehicle.
To answer your two questions: 1) you cheated and answered for me, so I won't answer; 2) I didn't know that Champions Online had the interior of a Festiva and the engine of an Escort.
IMPOV the basic issue with CO is, the Devs never had a real vision how the game would be and what sort of gameplay experience people should have. The extensive changes and nerfs in the last few beta days and the first weeks/months since launch speak volumes about this. When a concept is well thought through you don't need to make so many last minute changes and nerfs. It is this lack of vision and strategy which now shows.
The other issues are all just consequences of this flaw. The respec is an issue because the powers are so imbalanced, so bad in their description and it is impossible to really know what power combinations will be good and which will be borked. Some powers are merely traps, and have been so since beta: powers which essentially are quite inferior compared to others of similar effect. The nerfs of powers since launch have made the game a rollercoster. What set or power was strong yesterday may be totally useless just the next day. It is natural that in this chaos gamers feel cheated with no free respec and the hefty price to pay for it.
The same about grouping. Essentially the game is not grouping-friendly for various reasons. Simply the many differen travel powers make coordination difficult. Without classes you don't really cooperate, since usually you have no clue what your teammate's strengths and weaknesses is, so you just used the added firepower. Most missions are finished in minutes anyway, so I never had this feeling of really working as a team on something, because it never lasts long. It just made me totally nervous to hop from mission to mission with a group every minute to another, and usually at least half of the group, not knowing what the next task is, is spread all over the map, everyone on another mission. So essentially, the only workable way for CO WOULD have been a soloable gameplay. As it was in the late beta. But suddenly Cryptic realized people did not group enough and swung the nerf bat to force people to. That such a concept is doomed is logical, but Cryptic sorta maneuvered itself into this corner and prolly adding tons of group content was no option.
And on a very basic level: after recent power nerfs and HEAVY nerfs of defense powers I just don't feel Super anymore. They totally overdid it.
This game as succesfully put itself into a loose-loose situation. And given it could have been cool, that is really a pity.
Except you know, you have beeing getting freetcon with every major power change, including the addition of one (celestial). As for the other point Roper admited he likes to "nerf hard then buff instead of a long strong of mini nerfs over a extended time"
good plan?
Not that i think so, but it does shed some light.
I think your numbers are a wee bit off....
LotRO
5 character slots X 12 servers = 60 character slots
CoH
8 character slots X 12 servers = 96 character slots
CO
8 character slots = measly
I'm sure WoW launched with even more servers. So, each game offered a lot more character slots than CO did, and they were not about the character creator.
I agree with the article but it left out an extremely important point...the situation of powers themselves. With an open skill system there lies the inherent FOTM issue and the underpowered/useless skills. There are so many powers to choose from but very few of those offer a fun experience. Too many powers sit unused because of their complete lack of usefullness and there are too few useful powers to make a unique super hero.
Creating a solid super hero that doesn't get beat down on a regular basis requires the player to take the same few powers as everyone else unless they want to become completely frustrated and nerf themselves into oblivion. Creating multiple super heroes has the player again taking those same core power making them almost identical. Cryptic doesn't seem to have come to the conclusion that all powers should be viable to creating a hardened super hero and not only a few core powers, the rest are useless fluff.
Cryptic need s to overhaul the entire power skill set across all classes and make them useful but in different ways, this is not the case at the moment and is a huge detriment to the replay value. I want to enjoy CO but its simply not possible with so few options to super hero power set creation that doesn't create a self nerf.
On the subject of retcons, well, its an open power system and as such a player should be able to respec powers anytime they wish for a moderate price...in-game....not through C-Store wallet raping.
There are so many weaknesses in this game that it is hard to generalize which is more significant. I don't believe the retcon issue is enough to sink it on it's own but is a part of a much larger discontent. So rather than waiting for improvements, most folks, like me, vote with their feet and leave. The game could be an altaholics dream but lack of content, repetitive quests, total lack of immersiveness (not sure that is actually a word) and the worst thing of all in my opinion, being a super-hero that is far from super makes it simply not fun. Maybe the devs will listen but their track record to date is not good.
I think your numbers are a wee bit off....
LotRO
5 character slots X 12 servers = 60 character slots
CoH
8 character slots X 12 servers = 96 character slots
CO
8 character slots = measly
I'm sure WoW launched with even more servers. So, each game offered a lot more character slots than CO did, and they were not about the character creator.
this is where we differ then, i don't count extra servers on the totoal because i don't, and i imagine most players are the same, don't hope from server to server. we pick one we like and stay there.
This poster has made a comment that I have been suspecting all along.
I think Champions is nothing more than a funding program for Star Trek Online. Which, judging from the customer service, and launch of CO, and the articles I've read will be a fantastic flop like CO was. It's too bad this pathetic excuse for a design studio got the IP for Star Trek I don't know how it could be anything less than great, but if it can be ruined Cryptic will ruin it.
I hear it is combat based and not the exploration game that a Star Trek MMO should be. What the?????
This poster has made a comment that I have been suspecting all along.
I think Champions is nothing more than a funding program for Star Trek Online. Which, judging from the customer service, and launch of CO, and the articles I've read will be a fantastic flop like CO was. It's too bad this pathetic excuse for a design studio got the IP for Star Trek I don't know how it could be anything less than great, but if it can be ruined Cryptic will ruin it.
I hear it is combat based and not the exploration game that a Star Trek MMO should be. What the?????
you know you might want to actually look into things before jumping to conclusions. Several people even got lifetimes canceled. This guys problem was Failplanent not cryptic. Hell Gamestop cancled mine!
And STO is not pure combat any more then City of Heroes is Pure Combat.
Ahh MMO companies...how we have seen you come and go. You promise the world and give us crumbs and expect us to ask for more. Poor design, poor customer service, promotions that fail horribly and in the inability to actually have the necessary resources to run your product. How is it you think you will ever truly compete with the bigger companies? How do you think you will win over fans to your product with your attitudes or in some cases your silence? We have been fed your nonsense so much that now we just laugh at you and move on to something else. Once again hoping and dreaming, but being disappointed once again.
I have been an online gamer since 1995. I started out playing FPS games and Ultima Online back then on a 56k connection or at least attempting to do so. I moved on later to a decent connection and Everquest, Star Wars Galaxies, Dark Age of Camelot, and World of Warcraft. There were many other pit stops along the way. I saw many a start up company promise the moon and die by the wayside months later. Saw hype after hype touted only to crash and burn. I put up with the ineptitude that was Sony Online Entertainment. I remember that things got so bad that one of their community reps was kicked, because he took things over the line. He forgot that his job was to represent the company not try and condem and belittle the players his company had. I saw the big boy World of Warcraft go through a few community reps. One an ex-EQ guildmaster with a big mouth and somehow he managed to get a job working for Blizzard. MMO's and their communities are nothing new to me. I have been around the block and now I am almost forty years old and I am able to sit back and just shake my head at these companies trying to put out new MMO's. Some of the things they do just amaze me. It is a major wonder how they managed to get any kind of funding to do what their doing.
Recently, I was beta testing Champions Online for Cryptic. I was very hyped to help test this game. Friends of mine in real life had gotten me into the PnP version that the game is based off of called Heroes System. We waited months while Cryptic hyped up their game. They didn't have a huge community before the release of the game, but it was decent size and the devs and community reps for the most part seemed fair and polite. I kept checking on the game and waiting for my time in beta so I could help test. I managed to get in before the Open beta. I was utterly shocked at how poorly this company was at creating this game. They had so many different issues before the game was deemed ready for open beta. Powers that were buggy, instances screwy, pvp that was not balanced and boring. That's just to name a few things. Then, add the issues with the servers themselves, the problems with content or lack thereof. The game was a huge mess and Cryptic decided that it was time to goto Open Beta and let in even more people.
We as beta testers told them the game wasn't ready for Open beta. We pointed out numerous bugs and issues. Our pleas fell on deaf ears. All Cryptic could do was hype the Open Beta. Then, they hyped a way to sucker people out of money. Let's get these guys to buy 6 month and lifetime subscriptions!! We can make a killing off these people and our game isn't even live yet! Hell, we can even promise them they can get into the Star Trek beta. That is sure to sweeten the deal for some! The whole time this was going on the beta testers were still telling them the game had so many issues and needed to be fixed. Silence from the Devs. All of a sudden it's time for the game to go Live. A lot of us had saw that this company did not care about the quality of their game. We washed our hands of this pile of crap and watched from a distance at what happened next.
The game went Live after a very short Open Beta. The game was deemed ready by the Devs and Bill Roper was all smiles and hurrah's! I even saw Bill at GenCon with his shit eating grin on his face proclaiming how great the game was! Cryptic was in full PR mode. People bought the game, drank the Kool-Aid, and the first day they tried to play the servers crashed and burned. On top of all this there was a untested patch thrown together and put Live the day the servers went up. It totally destroyed the way the game was played. Nerd Rage filled the forums! People demanded their money back after Cryptic had suckered them out of it. What was once a great promise of a quality game turned out to be nothing but a lie.
Then we come to the 27th of this month. Cryptic decided to throw open their servers and allow old and new players to come and try out Champions online. They promised this huge Halloween event called BloodMoon. It was going to be an event like you had seen other companies like Blizzard do in their MMO. This was a great opportunity for Cryptic to show they had gotten their stuff together and could really flaunt the game. They could get great word of mouth and build positive vibs and have people come back to the game. Instead, we got the mess that is happening as of this day the 30th. The patch server is crawling at a snails pace. People have waited hours and hours to download a simple patch. In some cases, like my own, the patch was almost finished and then it stopped and died. Everything I had downloaded now had to be downloaded again, because their patcher didn't recognize it had been already downloaded. A golden opportunity once again wasted by this company. The incompetence of Cryptic once again shows through to the average gamer. How this company plans to keep this game alive is beyond me. All the negative press and word of mouth from players is just amazing. This company purchased the Star Trek Online game from Perpetual and Paramount. What kind of screwed up game will we see when that game is released? They have gone into a closed beta now. Supposedly, the game is going to be released in February of 2010. A very small time to beta test a game to a large audience. Will we see another failure by Cryptic? I truly hope not, because I love Star Trek. I want the game to succeed, but given the track history of Cryptic I am extremely concerned.
Cryptic, you cannot run a business like you are running it. Stop and listen to your customers. Take a step back and put your arrogance to the side. Jack Emmeritt may talk a mean game, but he is P.T. Barnum. He has added Sideshow Bill Roper after his failed attempt at Flagship Studios and Hellgate London and the promising and wonderful Mythos. How do you people think your company can survive running it like you do? Your reputation was at one time decent from City of Heroes. Now, your becoming one of the laughing stocks of the online gaming world. You are becoming the SOE of the past decade. I am wondering what it is going to take to make you people wake up and realize you cannot keep going in the direction your going. Champions will be played by people regardless of what some of us think or say. You know this. You count on it. Will it be enough to keep your company afloat? You have one of the biggest franchises in the world with Star Trek. Are you going to destroy it's chance at becoming something great because anything people say to you fall on deaf ears? For me, Star Trek is your last chance. I hear you may have the rights to a Neverwinter Nights or Dungeons and Dragons MMO. If you screw up Star Trek I truly hope you never ever get the right to make those games. You would not deserve it and the public doesn't deserve to see yet again another great franchise destroyed by Cryptic. You are becoming the Uwe Bowl of MMO's.
It's high time you decided to wake up and smell the coffee. You still have a franchise that needs a major overhaul and you have a new property coming out very soon that YOU HAVE to hit a home run with. Your deal with Atari helped finance all these opportunities for your company so show them and show the gaming community that we can put our faith in you to put out a quality product and not some half ass thrown together game. Show us you have the resources and ability to back up what you produce. Stop giving us hype and start giving us a real reason to trust you again. Regain some of your cred back. We want to believe in you. Show us that we can.
EDIT: as of me posting this from my blog to here the current Champion servers are down, no devs in sight, and people are nerd raging again on the forums. What kind of company runs this way and expects to stay up and running? Completely irresponsible!
Thats the big problem there, Atari is considered just as bad if not worse then SoE
LOL. You're very misinformed or stupid.
You can't earn Cryptic points in game. You earn perk rewards, which are not associated w/ the C-store items. Or, you were credited C-store points for your early access or pre-order from the merchant you bought from.
You can not, however, earn c-store points ingame, by any means. My mom would be able to tell you that, Genius. You should quit replying now while you look only misinformed and not yet on the side of moronic, sycophantic fanboi.
Thats the big problem there, Atari is considered just as bad if not worse then SoE
I agree 100%. I saw how Atari screwed Bioware around with Neverwinter Nights. Patches that would be rushed out, etc. They want things done at certain times and everything be damned. It might explain some of the issues Cryptic is having, but not all. Cryptic is just dropping the ball. I'm just scared shitless that Star Trek is going to end up just like CO when it comes out and that's sad after everything Star Trek has been through from Perpetual to Cryptic.
you know you might want to actually look into things before jumping to conclusions. Several people even got lifetimes canceled. This guys problem was Failplanent not cryptic. Hell Gamestop cancled mine!
And STO is not pure combat any more then City of Heroes is Pure Combat.
I don't think the attack was warranted but hey do what you gotta do.
I read that the guys issue was with Fileplanet, however I among many many others cancelled lifetime and 6 month subs within the first month after launch. My facts are in line and correct, you're line of thought is not if you think I'm wrong.
I never once compared STO to City of Heroes so not sure where that little quip came from but who knows maybe your right.
All I know is what I read about STO development and it's heavily focused on combat. In my opinion STO should have been more exploration and puzzle oriented. Combat is necessary in any MMO but was not the focus of the many Star Trek Series as much as faction politics, exploration and negotiation was. An MMO bsaed off Star Trek needs to be story focused and engrossing not constant mob killing. But hey, Cryptic does what Atari tells them to do and I'm sure that Atari's craptacular marketing team told them that mob grinding sells, so that's where they put ther focus. All I know is that Cryptic soaked me for $60.00cdn on Champions and I won't give them another dime for STO even though I am a Star Trek fan and like the idea of a Star Trek MMO, I wouldn't give Atari/ Cryptic one more dime of my money for their half assed patchwork paid beta testing MMOs.
you know you might want to actually look into things before jumping to conclusions. Several people even got lifetimes canceled. This guys problem was Failplanent not cryptic. Hell Gamestop cancled mine!
And STO is not pure combat any more then City of Heroes is Pure Combat.
I don't think the attack was warranted but hey do what you gotta do.
I read that the guys issue was with Fileplanet, however I among many many others cancelled lifetime and 6 month subs within the first month after launch. My facts are in line and correct, you're line of thought is not if you think I'm wrong.
I never once compared STO to City of Heroes so not sure where that little quip came from but who knows maybe your right.
All I know is what I read about STO development and it's heavily focused on combat. In my opinion STO should have been more exploration and puzzle oriented. Combat is necessary in any MMO but was not the focus of the many Star Trek Series as much as faction politics, exploration and negotiation was. An MMO bsaed off Star Trek needs to be story focused and engrossing not constant mob killing. But hey, Cryptic does what Atari tells them to do and I'm sure that Atari's craptacular marketing team told them that mob grinding sells, so that's where they put ther focus. All I know is that Cryptic soaked me for $60.00cdn on Champions and I won't give them another dime for STO even though I am a Star Trek fan and like the idea of a Star Trek MMO, I wouldn't give Atari/ Cryptic one more dime of my money for their half assed patchwork paid beta testing MMOs.
please point out the exact line of the attack
All i said was Failplanet was the problem and others, including me, had no problem canceling.
I used CoH as a example, now why dont you go find some StO Dev chats and find out the truth before making wild eyes guesses.
Note to the OP: Is this what you were hoping for, to bring the CO battle to the homefront for a closer look? Well I would love to see a follow up article where you explore the issues a little more in-depth and let us know who you feel is right or wrong. Are the supporters wrong for not demanding more out of the developers or are the haters wrong for expecting too much out of a two month old game? I would love to hear what somebody involved in the industry has to say on those points.
Character Slots
Why would anybody need more than 8 character slots (12 of you buy the extra 4 from the CO store) in CO? Has anybody filled all 8 slots with level 40s and needs more to continue playing the game? I think 8 character slots is enough... for now. Once more and more people start to actually USE their 8 slots for gameplay and not just making new costumes then we will probably see some more from Cryptic. I don't think there is a legitimate demand for them just two months in.
For all of those who want more just because CO puts so much of an emphasis on character creation are just being greedy. Each character gets up to 4 costume slots (6 if you buy them from the CO store). Not to mention the fact that you can create and then save as many costumes as you wish. So if you're just into making costumes you can have up to 72 (6 per toon x 12 toons) on one account (plus any saved and not used).
Retcons
This is, perhaps, the worst argument from the haters. The retcons are available in a number of different ways to meets the needs of the entire user base. The buyable retcons are not, in my opinion, there for people with money to blow. They are there for people who don't have enough time in-game to meet the requirements to obtain one there. That means for the casual player... not the rich player. The cost is set high initially because retcons, whether obtained in-game or through the store are supposed to be challenging to obtain to prevent people from totally changing their character any time changes are made in-game. Basically to prevent people from retconning every time a new exploit or power buff is discovered.
People need to figure out what their preferred method of obtaining a retcon is. If your method is currently implemented in-game, then I think you need to stay quiet. There is no need to complain about other methods that you never intend to use just to prevent others from being able to use them. For some people, buying a retcon from the CO store is the only way they'll ever be able to get one.
My biggest complaint with the CO community is that the people complaining rarely do it in a constructive way. I can't even count the number of times in any given thread somebody has claimed to have cancelled their sub or promised to do so. When I hear something like that, the author tends to loose al credibility in my eyes. I think 'This isn't someone trying to make things better, this is someone who just wants to complain and get a reaction.' And they typically do get a reaction from other members of the community and an argument ensues which completely undermines any positive suggestions thay may have otherwise come out of the discussion. The truth of the matter is that this game does have some flaws that are cause for concern. I think most people will agree to that. If people would stop complaining about the little things that don't matter in the grand scheme of things we might be able to come together as a cumminity and push for the changes that do matter.
+1
Well, that was a disgusting display of apologia for Cryptic's sly practices.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
Well, that was a disgusting display of apologia for Cryptic's sly practices.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
What the hell is your problem with giving people Options
Freecons with big power changes
OR
In game resources
OR
Mission (in development)
OR
C-Store
Good lord man, get over yourself.
Anyone who wants to play a game where real-life wealth translates into in-game advantage is a fool.
Anyone who wants to play a game where real-life wealth translates into in-game advantage is a fool.
Agreed. And I said it all along, why should the wealthy get anything they want in a game too? Bad enough it happens in RL .... in a game , can't I be on equal footing? I would have supported Cryptic but not with Crap - Store.
Agreed. And I said it all along, why should the wealthy get anything they want in a game too? Bad enough it happens in RL .... in a game , can't I be on equal footing? I would have supported Cryptic but not with Crap - Store.
How are you not on equal footing, HOW DAMN IT TELL ME HOW WHEN YOU GET 3 FUCKING WAYS IN GAME TO GET THE SAME RETCON SOMEONE PAYS 13 BUCKS FOR.
And if your idea of a constructive discussion is to resort to petty insults you only further illustrate my point about the CO community.
By your definition then, I guess I'm a fool. But I find your definition to be false. How is paying for a retcon an advantage? Advantage over who? And how does purchasing a retcon from the CO store have a greater in-game impact than unlocking one in-game? If anything I see paying for a retcon as a disadvantage for a player purchasing one since they lose real world funds to obtain it when, if they had more play time, they could get it for free just by playing.
The problem of retcons is just a consequence of the total absence of variety in any activity the player undertakes and the total lack of involvement of player in the gameworld. Playing the game through multiple times and earning in game money would have been far less likely to arouse concern if the experience actually delivered any fun or variety on repeated play in its own right, but there is literally no imagniation or originality in the world, nothing to inspire or encourage outside that one lone reward that the retcon represents.
In the case of CO Cryptic are guilty of concentrating on one aspect of the game to the exclusion of all others and because the core world engine is so infused with this lack of attention at its creation, its dfficult to believe that it has any potential to ever develop any varierty for the future.
The review is biased FOR CHaMPIONS, not against it.
If the review writer was realistic, he would have listed many of the other MASSIVE amount of flaws this game's developers refuse to acknowledge or fix.
They just now after 3-5 weeks fixed Mindful Restoration- a power so powerful it made everyone invulnerable.
They have YET to address many other overpowered abilities which literally BREAK PvP.
PvP isn't unbalanced, it's outright broken.
Abilities which can one-set characters in PvP, kill them in 2 hits, or do 50% life in one hit. Travel powers which are clearly better than others, a stupid system which encourages exploiting newbies, and a universal forum agreement that the game is not a PvP battle, but simply an EXPLOIT WAR. "Who has the most exploits on their side? They win."
I cannot even believe the reviewer didn't mention this. RETCON isn't even that big of a problem; it's cheap enough to respec your lower levels with a character 5 levels higher, and you get FREE retcons all the time.
The expansion is ridiculously upsetting, but what's more upsetting is the fact PvP has been unbalanced to the point of being broken for so long- and so far they've only changed perhaps 1 out of 10+ powers that are game-breaking.
Anyone who wants to play a game where real-life wealth translates into in-game advantage is a fool.
According to this logic, anyone who buys a video game is a fool.
You do realize... it cost you $10-60 to buy your video game right?
I doubt you realize the irony in your statement or the hypocrisy of your narrow-minded hatred for RMT.
Well, that was a disgusting display of apologia for Cryptic's sly practices.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
No, it isn't a disgusting display of apologia.
I have had 3 accounts for 2 months + 1 month beta.
Me and my best friend and nephew all have never had any big deal with retcons. The only time it was bad on Cryptic's part was when it was so expensive, no one could even afford the first ability retcon. They fixed that within 1-2 weeks.
They've given out several free full retcons, lowered the price of retcons, and all-in-all there isn't much of a reason to even need retcons in the first place. So WHEN you do need one- you have 1 or 2 free ones in addition to the fact that most RETCONs are needed solely because you messed up a RECENT power, which is CHEAPER to retcon than a full respec.
RETCONS have never been the problem. Usually the only ones whining about retcon are the min-maxers who pick overpowered abilities to exploit in PvP- and when said abilities are nerfed, they cry "RETCON!!!" as if they deserved one.
I'm not a "LOL QQ Carebear!!!" player either. I retcon constantly!!! I love retcons. I never pay more than 10% of my IN-GAME currency. Often I can just give a lvl 10 about 1% of what my lvl 20 owns and give them a full retcon.
The problem has never been RETCON. I have no idea why that was even in the review for more than a few sentences or half a paragraph. The real problem is in balance. The game is practically BROKEN in PvP with the horrendous balance of powers. It's not just "a little unbalanced" or even "really unbalanced" but "Wow, that power makes every other power pointless." broken.
No, it isn't a disgusting display of apologia.
I have had 3 accounts for 2 months + 1 month beta.
Me and my best friend and nephew all have never had any big deal with retcons. The only time it was bad on Cryptic's part was when it was so expensive, no one could even afford the first ability retcon. They fixed that within 1-2 weeks.
They've given out several free full retcons, lowered the price of retcons, and all-in-all there isn't much of a reason to even need retcons in the first place. So WHEN you do need one- you have 1 or 2 free ones in addition to the fact that most RETCONs are needed solely because you messed up a RECENT power, which is CHEAPER to retcon than a full respec.
RETCONS have never been the problem. Usually the only ones whining about retcon are the min-maxers who pick overpowered abilities to exploit in PvP- and when said abilities are nerfed, they cry "RETCON!!!" as if they deserved one.
I'm not a "LOL QQ Carebear!!!" player either. I retcon constantly!!! I love retcons. I never pay more than 10% of my IN-GAME currency. Often I can just give a lvl 10 about 1% of what my lvl 20 owns and give them a full retcon.
The problem has never been RETCON. I have no idea why that was even in the review for more than a few sentences or half a paragraph. The real problem is in balance. The game is practically BROKEN in PvP with the horrendous balance of powers. It's not just "a little unbalanced" or even "really unbalanced" but "Wow, that power makes every other power pointless." broken.
the sad thing, even with powers being hard locked liek the PvP events their still widly broken.
A hunter is just hands down superior to a Wolf who only have melee attacks and their one ranged attack/hold breaker has a 15 second cool down.
While hunter have a hold, melee, and their energy builder is ranged.
I love the game and would defend it if I could.
Unfortunately, it is a sad thing.
I was going to say "The entire game is sad." but the game is great "on its own" (as a system) but the Developers are sad. Very sad.
I've never seen such a great system, fun gameplay, and amazing concept be so... degraded by sad attempts at Developers.
I swear a monkey is in charge. For instance... IN WHAT UNIVERSE is it a good idea to have an unblockable, undodgeable power increase from 30% to 50% of someone's life in one hit? IN WHAT UNIVERSE WAS THAT A GOOD IDEA?
IN WHAT UNIVERSE is it a good idea to allow a power to keep someone knockeddown 100% of the time because there's an unblockable, undodgeable knockdown ability that knocks someone does with a 100% chance and refreshes faster than they can stand up?
Some of their patches make me think "WHAT???? WHO thought that was a GOOD IDEA??!?!?!"
Apparently In the the Champions universe, where a monkey works the spotlight.... i mean patches.
I love the game and would defend it if I could.
Unfortunately, it is a sad thing.
I was going to say "The entire game is sad." but the game is great "on its own" (as a system) but the Developers are sad. Very sad.
I've never seen such a great system, fun gameplay, and amazing concept be so... degraded by sad attempts at Developers.
I swear a monkey is in charge. For instance... IN WHAT UNIVERSE is it a good idea to have an unblockable, undodgeable power increase from 30% to 50% of someone's life in one hit? IN WHAT UNIVERSE WAS THAT A GOOD IDEA?
IN WHAT UNIVERSE is it a good idea to allow a power to keep someone knockeddown 100% of the time because there's an unblockable, undodgeable knockdown ability that knocks someone does with a 100% chance and refreshes faster than they can stand up?
In this universe, where a monkey works the spotlight.... i mean patches.
it gets worse.
my lvl 40 spent 2 days to only get 40 pvp kills as a wolf
my lvl 20? 2 hours to get 30ish
what seperates them?
my 20 has medical drones at RANK 1
it gets worse.
my lvl 40 spent 2 days to only get 40 pvp kills as a wolf
my lvl 20? 2 hours to get 30ish
what seperates them?
my 20 has medical drones at RANK 1
LoL
/wrist
Who thinks those OP powers are a good idea? The marketing department. Respecs make Cryptic $12.50 a pop.
Do the math. They have.
Geez, did they really offer a full respec for $12.50? I haven't followed the game since I played in beta. Decided the game just lacked the fun needed to be called a game (I'm pretty demanding that way).
Anyway, I would just like to shamelessly quote myself from something I posted here on August 16th.
"Will I be trying CO? Yes. Do I think RMT are wrong for this game? Absolutely, but I am still willing to check it out, and am not putting my foot down and saying this game is worse than Hitler. What do I think will happen in the future? That slowly little exclusive things will be added to the mix that you can only buy. They will start with fluff items, then progress from there. It's a giant way to "hook" us. I say this just because I know how business works. Do I have any proof they will do this? No, and neither does anyone who believes the opposite of me that it won't be that way.
But that's what forums are for, to discuss..."
Well, looks like I was right. RMT's just make any too easy for any developer to bleed you dry. I find it really difficult to subscribe to any game with this payment scheme.
Please get your facts stright before going off on a rant
Yes you can buy a respect with RMT
You can also
EARN it in game
OR
Wait for the Freespects the devs give out ocassionally
OR
do the retcon mission (when it goes lives)
OR
Come here a bitch because cryptic only gives you 3 ways to earn a retcon free.
Wait, what does NCSoft have to do with any of this? They aren't involved in Cryptic or Champions Online in any way.
Which Halloween event? You are aware that City of Heroes has like three different events going on at the same time right?
Im a customer its not my job to make things better, that's the job of the publisher and the developers to reach out to their client base and ask them (me or you) what we would like to see. especially when we (me) ask for our money back. That would have been a very good time to ask me what would have kept me paying to play.
When somethig crappy comes on TV I dont want to watch I dont call up the cable company and tell them I like to watch old reruns of Three's Company and that if they want to keep my cash they part start playing them lol.
Besides I have offered up suggestions on the CO site in the forums as to what Id like to see in the game so I have contributed.
When I don't like the TV show Im watching I change the channel. when I dont like the MMO Im playing I switch to another MMO. It's a paid entertainment service just like cable. I never could understand all you do gooders offering up "constructive advice" on a thread like this partcular one, where it will make no difference anyways. Go to the CO site and tell them how great they are over there and tell them all yer big ideas. It may make a difference to say it directly to the devs. They don;t follow our threads on here like you might think. In fact I bet they go home at night and try to forget about all us geeks> Contrary to popular belief it's real live work for them, and most people don;t go home at night and look for public forum posts about how well they did that day at work.
I simply stated that I had issues with the game and left as many others did. I continue to report this as I feel other consumers would like to know that I had a bad customer service experience with Cryptic/ Atari. So I'm not a troll or a flamer or any of the other geeky terms used to describe people who say negative things about these games. I'm simply a dissatisfied customer who is a little PO'd and would like to let other consumers know about my experience.
I'm a long time city of hero player so when i found out about co i was very intrested the graphics are nice but the game is just lots of fluff doesn't nothing to keep me playing doesn't have the depth or feeling that coh has so i never continued playing after my first month and went back to city of hero's it might not be as pretty as CO but it has the content and the hero feeling.
A subscription fee is fine, a cash shop can work if done well. But I refuse to play a game with both, cosmetic changes or not.
and i was correct to effectivly quit beta after hearing RMT's were in.
I don't even think imma 2nd look at STO, its going to be just more of the same.
I'm not sure if your comments were directed at me but since you quoted me I'll respond to you.
In no way am I suggesting that THIS is the place to either complain or offer constructive criticism for the CO devs. I was just speaking to the CO community here about the issues because it was relevant to the OP. I fully agree that it is the responsibility of the devs to reach out to the customer base for feedback, which I think the forums do.
If you made your voice heard and made a decision to leave the game, thats your deal. I have no problems with that. I also think it is important to let others know how you feel, especially because it keeps the issues that you had in the public eye and hopefully its something that will be addressed by the devs and fixed.
My main issue is that anytime we get a dissatisfied customer they feel the need to bring up any problem that has ever existed in the game, whether it has been fixed or not, and then move on to call anybody who doesn't feel the same way a fool. In no way is that helpful to anybody. But I'm not only against haters here, I have also publicly spoken out against the blind supporters who think Cryptic can do no wrong. There ARE problems with the game. And people who ignore that fact and cheer for Crytpic every time they do something right are contributing to the problem just as much by giving the devs a false sense of accomplishment.
As paying customers we all have the power to help shape the future of the game. If we all stand up and demand improvements chances are that we'll get them, maybe not immediately, but eventually. But all of the bickering and arguing amongst the community certainly doesn't help.
I bought the 6 month sub so I'll be around for at least that long. If they have ignored the major demands of the customers by that time I'll know that our voices aren't being heard and that its best to take my money elsewhere. But I feel that there is a lot of work already taking place to improve upon the game and I'm willing to wait around for them to be implemented.
In any MMO there can be a argument for a full recon, partial recon or no recon. The reasons range from allowing players to keep up with design changes to stopping players from modding their character on the fly for each mission.
But there is only one reason to allow a full recon to cost money and that reason is KERCHING! Let the £$ roll in! I can remember people saying how all the cash shop could buy you were fluff pets. This is a sign of things to come guys wake up.
Cryptic's already bitten you for a box + 6 months. That's probably more than an average player will be spending on this game (unless he burns cash in the shop), so they're probably just fine with you quitting after all that.
Not much of negative message you're sending them. They'll get rich if you are typical.
Very well put. CO has much bigger problems than this stunt they are trying to pull.
Retcons is the least of CO's problems.
Originally posted by Babylon9000
Im a customer its not my job to make things better, that's the job of the publisher and the developers to reach out to their client base and ask them (me or you) what we would like to see. especially when we (me) ask for our money back. That would have been a very good time to ask me what would have kept me paying to play.
When something crappy comes on TV I dont want to watch I dont call up the cable company and tell them I like to watch old reruns of Three's Company and that if they want to keep my cash they part start playing them lol.
Besides I have offered up suggestions on the CO site in the forums as to what Id like to see in the game so I have contributed.
When I don't like the TV show Im watching I change the channel. when I dont like the MMO Im playing I switch to another MMO. It's a paid entertainment service just like cable. I never could understand all you do gooders offering up "constructive advice" on a thread like this partcular one, where it will make no difference anyways. Go to the CO site and tell them how great they are over there and tell them all yer big ideas. It may make a difference to say it directly to the devs. They don;t follow our threads on here like you might think. In fact I bet they go home at night and try to forget about all us geeks> Contrary to popular belief it's real live work for them, and most people don;t go home at night and look for public forum posts about how well they did that day at work.
I simply stated that I had issues with the game and left as many others did. I continue to report this as I feel other consumers would like to know that I had a bad customer service experience with Cryptic/ Atari. So I'm not a troll or a flamer or any of the other geeky terms used to describe people who say negative things about these games. I'm simply a dissatisfied customer who is a little PO'd and would like to let other consumers know about my experience.
Originally posted by Doosharm
I'm not sure if your comments were directed at me but since you quoted me I'll respond to you.
In no way am I suggesting that THIS is the place to either complain or offer constructive criticism for the CO devs. I was just speaking to the CO community here about the issues because it was relevant to the OP. I fully agree that it is the responsibility of the devs to reach out to the customer base for feedback, which I think the forums do.
If you made your voice heard and made a decision to leave the game, thats your deal. I have no problems with that. I also think it is important to let others know how you feel, especially because it keeps the issues that you had in the public eye and hopefully its something that will be addressed by the devs and fixed.
My main issue is that anytime we get a dissatisfied customer they feel the need to bring up any problem that has ever existed in the game, whether it has been fixed or not, and then move on to call anybody who doesn't feel the same way a fool. In no way is that helpful to anybody. But I'm not only against haters here, I have also publicly spoken out against the blind supporters who think Cryptic can do no wrong. There ARE problems with the game. And people who ignore that fact and cheer for Crytpic every time they do something right are contributing to the problem just as much by giving the devs a false sense of accomplishment.
As paying customers we all have the power to help shape the future of the game. If we all stand up and demand improvements chances are that we'll get them, maybe not immediately, but eventually. But all of the bickering and arguing amongst the community certainly doesn't help.
I bought the 6 month sub so I'll be around for at least that long. If they have ignored the major demands of the customers by that time I'll know that our voices aren't being heard and that its best to take my money elsewhere. But I feel that there is a lot of work already taking place to improve upon the game and I'm willing to wait around for them to be implemented.
I agree with most of what you're saying.
I guess if you didn't get your money back on your 6mo sub so you have a vested interest in the game.
I got my cash back so I don't have the same investment as you do.
My big issue is simply that these compaines need to understand that MMOs are a form of entertainment and that we are customers. I don't feel as though I get treated as such. This is why I gave the anology of TV shows vs MMOs. We have many choices out there now and one can switch MMOs almost as easily as switching channels. This is the best way to send these publishers the message that if they don't listen to their customers, the customers will give their money to a company that will.
You mean like DEMANDING for the c-Store to sell Retcon.
Good lord people Cryptic can't win.
"Retcons are too expensive in game!"
Rep: We have adjustied the economy to make retcons cheeper
"we need a way, some sort of mission for retcons!"
Dev: Working on it boss!
"Damn it let me buy a retcon!"
Dev: We have updated the C-Store with buyable Retcon
God Lord people the devs are LITTERLY GIVING YOU EVERYTHING YOU ASK FOR
And it's not good enough.
I honestly cannot fathom how anyone can defend Cryptic on how they are running Champions into the ground.
"Earn money by surfing the internet"
this is where we differ then, i don't count extra servers on the totoal because i don't, and i imagine most players are the same, don't hope from server to server. we pick one we like and stay there.
At no time did you mention not counting extra servers, you just mentioned character slots. CO is definitely lacking those compared to other games. I, for one, had characters on multiple servers in CoX. I started out on one server. went to another with a friend, and finally settled on Freedom, but I went back and played my other toons. I had a massive amount of toonage on CoX (afterall its meant for altaholics).
I know of several people that play on different servers on LotRO. My kin has a sister kin on Landroval where many from Brandywine make alts to play.
If you are going to count character slots, then I think you need to count all character slots that are available to the player. This is another issue in where CO is lacking.
This was a very enjoyable read on a topic of interest to me. This whole business of introducing RMT fees later on in development is very troubling.
Why can't companies let us know up front what the costs are going to be? Why draw people into something first and then begin introducing additional fees after they're invested? It just doesn't make me want to play these games. It feels like plans are being made behind my back to manipulate me out of my cash, instead of just telling me up front how much I'll have to pay for an entertainment service.
I was all gung-ho about this game until I heard about the RMT shop, and that some of the items would impact game play. Paying extra cash for a respec (retcon), and being told late in the development process that this is the way its going to be makes me glad I avoided this game.
I think MMO decision-makers need to stop attending conferences about incredible, new (i.e. sleazy) business models, and maybe go to some about how to make a great game.
ARRRRG
Soooooo the fact their are 3 in gamrs way to get retcons and the players demanded paid-cons has no baring for you?
In response to this:
"Damn it let me buy a retcon!"
Dev: We have updated the C-Store with buyable Retcon"
Comments like this make it seem like players are begging for RMT items like respecs. I don't believe that's true. I played City of Heroes for nearly 3 years. I never asked for the ability to buy a respec. I never heard or saw anyone on the forums ever ask for respecs via RMT, not once.
There were an incredible number of ingame ways to get respecs. My favourite option was the extremely well-done, enjoyable respec task-forces that allowed you to earn them via very exciting missions that were all part of an excellent story. Respecs were also given as veteran rewards, which was a nice way to reward people for their loyalty to the game. Later, when the auction house (all in-game currency, NO RMT) was introduced, you could also purchase (from another player) a respec. You could also loot recipes and ingredients to craft your own respecs to use for yourself, or sell at the auction house.
You can give people respecs outright, you can let them unlock them via enjoyable content, you can allow them to loot respecs, you can allow them to purchase them for ingame cash. You never need to introduce them as an extra charge via RMT, and if they are available to players via the more desirable avenues, you will never (no not ever) have players demanding to spend extra cash at an RMT shop for one.
The only way I can see a player demanding to pay RMT for a respec is if they have been manuevered (i.e. manipulated) into this situation by a company that has not made them reasonably, and enjoyably available in-game. Two thumbs down.
Bottom line: CO lacks content, and what there is could be better. The only good things are the costume editor and the graphics (though i would say the faces and animations could use some work).
And on a sidenote: What's up with comparing CO to EVE? That's almost like comparing Duke Nukem to Total Annihilation.
and yet they did demand it in the forums, and even your venerable City of Heroes offers Respec via Hero - Store.
and please dont bring up the vetran system, i swear. CO hastn even been out long enough for the first 3 month vet. CoH took years to introduce vet, don't expects EVERYTHING in 2 months.
We need more content more then we need vet reward, retcon missions, or a level cap bump.
At launch, CoH had no ability to respec characters. Respecs came out about six months post-launch and not being able to respec your character was a big thing. And then (as now, I believe) each of those respec trials only works once in granting the respec. Over time other methods of getting respecs - the dev-granted freespecs, ultra-expensive rare respec recipes, vet rewards, an RMT respec - were introduced so that respecing in CoH/V isn't much of an issue.
In part, you should be aware that before admonishing Cryptic for having an RMT respec available, Paragon Studios introduced it to CoH/V post-NCsoft take-over. It's $10 vs ChampO's $12.50 and is arguably less flexible than what ChampO offers.
The other part is that providing options for players is a good thing. Thus far Cryptic have been pretty good with offering free respecs to players (and we can see if that continues). But there will always be players who want different options. Some will earn enough in-game currency to spend on full respecs. Others will wait for the freespecs. And then there will be those who are happy to pay directly to get them.
I've always felt that if player attitudes about RMT on forums reflected their attitude in-game, then all gold farmer organisations would be out of business in about a fortnight. That gold farming is a multi-million dollar business indicates to me there are a lot of players out there happy to pay for in-game rewards / currency.
There are a lot of people who do a lot of things, buying gold is one of them. But that does not make it right, or mean that we secretly all want to have RMT’s in our MMO. Without gold farmers players could not amass wealth ridiculous amounts of wealth and push auction house prices through the roof.
Players pay money to distort the gameplay of the MMO. But it stops there, because MMO’s do nothing to distort the game in the same way. Then you bring in RMT’s and players have a new way to be better than the next player that has nothing to do with achievement.
If you want MMO’s to become like a funfair where your enjoyment of the game depends on how many rides you can pay for, then RMT’s are the way to go. Remember you paid your entrance fee, but there is no such thing as paying too much as far as game companies are concerned.
no argribly about it
in CO a fire/em blaster respecing is still a fire/em blaster
in CO a Fire/EM blaster can become a cold/celestial healer
At launch, CoH had no ability to respec characters. Respecs came out about six months post-launch and not being able to respec your character was a big thing. And then (as now, I believe) each of those respec trials only works once in granting the respec. Over time other methods of getting respecs - the dev-granted freespecs, ultra-expensive rare respec recipes, vet rewards, an RMT respec - were introduced so that respecing in CoH/V isn't much of an issue.
In part, you should be aware that before admonishing Cryptic for having an RMT respec available, Paragon Studios introduced it to CoH/V post-NCsoft take-over. It's $10 vs ChampO's $12.50 and is arguably less flexible than what ChampO offers.
The other part is that providing options for players is a good thing. Thus far Cryptic have been pretty good with offering free respecs to players (and we can see if that continues). But there will always be players who want different options. Some will earn enough in-game currency to spend on full respecs. Others will wait for the freespecs. And then there will be those who are happy to pay directly to get them.
I've always felt that if player attitudes about RMT on forums reflected their attitude in-game, then all gold farmer organisations would be out of business in about a fortnight. That gold farming is a multi-million dollar business indicates to me there are a lot of players out there happy to pay for in-game rewards / currency.
The respec trials can be completed multiple times each in CoH, just so you know, and there are multiple task-forces available. Likewise a number of other ingame options are available to get respecs (loot, rewards, auction house).
What I'm saying is that if a game has enough enjoyable ingame options to obtain a respec, respec via RMT becomes unnecessary.
P.S. I didn't like the way NCsoft began handling the game from Issue 13 until the present. They began making unwanted revamps to core systems and just started introducing RMT for actual super-powers. Up until this point, RMT was for costumes (and the like) only. Now they have RMT respecs also? Interesting. I started to see a shift in philosophy around Issue 13, and opted out. Many others did likewise at the same time.
I used the pre-Issue 13 model of respecs in CoH as an example of the way I like to see them done. People were very happy with the situation during my time in the game Issue 6 to Issue 13, in my experience. I always had a respec available when I felt I needed one, thanks to the numerous (and enjoyable) in-game options.
i'm gonna go ahead and say it. they should have just made city of heroes part 2. not make it exactly like it, but at least build on it.
In response to the following comment:
"If you want MMO’s to become like a funfair where your enjoyment of the game depends on how many rides you can pay for, then RMT’s are the way to go. Remember you paid your entrance fee, but there is no such thing as paying too much as far as game companies are concerned."
/QFE
It's a shift in philosophy, imo, that has customers paying more for what used to be included in a monthly subscription fee. I just don't play games based on that philosophy. It puts you in a situation where you really don't know up front how much you're going to have to pay to enjoy yourself or be competitive. No thanks, I want to pay a predictable fee for an entertainment service that I understand up front. No extra fees and unpleasant surprises please.
The article does seem biased to me. The editor points out that no game out there offers full respec and that such a thing was never promised.
Its almost as if the she is saying "what a retarted community to whine about something which no other mmo's offer"
Clearly she has never played or understood the point of super hero games.
In CO there are no 'classes' as such, your completly free to customise and build yourself. In games where you have this complete customisation its kinda expected that you get the chance to fully respec because 'gimping' is almost inevitable.
AC2 allowed a full repsec about once a month. It is one of the reasons I think the game went down the tubes, so I am not a respec fan.
What bothers me most is these are the same people making Star Trek Online.....Ive said this long ago....COH was bad and now this is worse.
/sigh
The most disturbing part of this article for me is the fact that as I suspected Cryptic used a feature that obviously the community wanted in the worse way and tried to charge an unusually high price for it. I hope in the end the game doesn't fail of course but as long as they have both sub fees and an item shop I won't be subbing to this game, I'll try STO when they release it but again if they try to follow the same model and have both sub fees and an item shop I'll not go past the first month. From a business standpoint the model is gold but like alot of things SOE does you just have to wonder if it is worth alienating those who know better.
Particularly when character creation is such an experiment, as it is in CO.
No game offers full respec? What do you mean by that? I'm pretty sure that the latest incarnation of SWG offers full ingame respec. Also games based on a skill model do not need respec, since you can choose and surrender skills at will. Further, CoH/CoV allow you mutiple ingame options to reconfigure all of your primary and secondary powers. You can't change the sets you have selected, but you have multiple character slots per server for different types of characters (e.g. healer, melee, ranged, tank) etc.. They've recently added RMT respecs also, which I dislike. They have respecs available via fun missions, loot drops, via the ingame economy (auction house) and as veteran rewards. I guess they wanted to give customers a chance to throw away some extra cash by adding the RMT (shrug).
I also don't agree, in general, with the message you got from the article. I certainly never got anything so negative about the playing community when I read it. Nobody was referred to as a retarded whiner. I'm not sure we're reading the same thing.
I think the overall issues with people "whining" on the forums is quickly being solved by the simple fact they are quiting the game and dropping their subs. I myself have dropped my sub and it will expire Dec. 1st. They wont have to worry about a bitchy or whiny community pretty soon because they will have no community left to deal with. The downside to the one server/instanced zones type of game is anyone can log in at various times and check to see exactly how many people are logged in if the # of instances is small enough. Right before bloodmoon at the times between 11pm cst and 2am cst there were perhaps between 5 and 10 thousand people logged in. I dont have an exact number because I didnt bother to count everything. What was more telling is throughout the month of October the number of people in the 30+ zones remained below 1 thousand people, usually closer to about 500 people. This did not include those in the pvp instances and doing other such things, however, that is still pretty sad as a complete picture of the high end portion of the game. The first week the game came out there were up to 100 instances in the 3 lower level major zones with between 40 and 100 people in each instance. In addition to a small number of people in the various newbie instances. Late October it was 10 or fewer instances with most of them hovering around 40 to 50 people and one or two with 100 people. The decline was steady with a big dropoff after the first free month was up.
I just dont think there are enough players now to support a development team in general so the likelyhood that the game will continue as a p2p model in my opinion is very slim...more likely it will do a full transition to a f2p model with a cash shop. They will probably give those who purchased lifetime subs some form of cash shop money to compensate them, who knows.
I really think they should have done some good market research about the likely reception they would get from things like performance enhancing RMT (in a subscription based game) and adding full retcon via RMT. I think they would have found that a large number of people looking for a new MMO don't like those things.
They talked about needing these revenue sources for things like ongoing development. However, I think these "sources" killed the number of subscriptions they would have got if they would have gone with a straight subscription model like some of the more successful games that have been running for years.
Who seems to be championing this whole new RMT revenue thing anyways? People like John Smedley (based on an interview I read). How well is he doing compared to the guys at Blizzard? Why do people still even listen to that guy?