Thanks a lot, I'll put this game seriously on my radar now. Have to admit I had a wrong (probably too sceptical) picture of you and this game. I'll give it another shot once I have enough from my current game (I never play more than 1 games at once). Your wroting appears quite seducing to me since I'm all up for the challenge, not for the cheap play (if you wonder why I ask for a possible non-deposit way).

I was thinking of "swunting" , running back to the turret is really..really annoying every time the mob is dried up, so I'm thinking of buying a pistol and just kill after I'm done sweating, the question is would that be beneficial than saving ped for mining runs as you suggest? I'm planning to be a career miner and later crafter, so I don't know if swunting will be counter productive to my long term goal..or it wont be that big of an issue in the long run? after all I'm only sweating to gain skills for the most part.

Originally posted by Flanteus

I was thinking of "swunting" , running back to the turret is really..really annoying every time the mob is dried up, so I'm thinking of buying a pistol and just kill after I'm done sweating, the question is would that be beneficial than saving ped for mining runs as you suggest? I'm planning to be a career miner and later crafter, so I don't know if swunting will be counter productive to my long term goal..or it wont be that big of an issue in the long run? after all I'm only sweating to gain skills for the most part.

If your long term goal is mining/crafting, then I would recomend pure sweating, or walking for fruit/stones over swunting.

Swunting is a great way to skill combat cheap, but if your goal is mining/crafting then you will just be spreading yourself too thin.

narfi

well I don't mind a little combat :( , I mean, can I enjoy some level of eco hunting without trying to be professional at it? I don't mind spending some time and money in combat, ye know maybe just enough to help me kill some mobs that may interfere with my mining? or something like that...

I know that it's better to just focus on one profession, but I don't know if it will be costly to have at least some diversity in professions, just low level stuff nothing major..

BTW can someone be a professional medic in this game? I like healing/buffing others in mmos but I don't know if its something you could specialize in, my ultimate goal is crafting which i don't think I'll start it anytime soon, that's why I want to mix some hunting and mining first, with mining being in the lead at the end, then start crafting later, is this a good plan?

Yes, being a medic is a viable option of free skilling when you are new and as a source of income when your experienced.

(There are medical tools in the game which cost 100k+ peds (10k usd) which the top ubers either use or higher to have used on them when hunting the top mobs in the game.)

For fun w/ hunting, swunting is definatly an economical approach to it.

I think you have a good stratagy, the hardest thing in this game is crafting, so its good you expect it to be a while before you consider getting into it even if it is your final goal.

With that in mind, I think you would want to sweat enough to get yourself a Vivo T1 (or even better an Herb Box or 2) and then advertize your services at twin peaks or other popular areas.

You wont be charging anything at the beginning, just the decay on your tools. This will allow you to skill for free while you build your stats into somthing more markatable.

When buisness is slow, you will sweat for peds and mine for experience.

If you are proactive and advertize on the main game forums as well as ingame in the more croweded areas you should be able to have a couple of fapping(medic) jobs a day.

narfi

thanks Narfi, I play on planet Arkadia btw, I used Gyro fap 2 L, someone crafted 1 for me, and I used it on myself only, I know it is not effective way to spend ped, but I was just trying the tool and see how healing works, still experimenting.

I assume these 100k ped medic tools last very...very long? or are they just extremely powerful? or both? I mean why sometime I see tools/equipments have the exact same name but varies in price, I always wondered..

for now I'm playing passively, barely paying any attention to the game while sweating and I plan to continue doing that until I gain some levels in evader profession, I assume if I start healing ppl or hunting I would need to be evasive in order to lessen the cost of my equipments decay (getting aggro from healing others?), so I'll continue to sweat to skill up for now.

swunting wont be eco at the start due low skills, but I don't mind losing ped i make from sweats in order to be able to swunt economically against my current target (green and ugly puny cats..) actually I don't know if swunting will ever be eco against them once i capped my starter TT weapons skills (each have 10~9 vibrant sweats+loot= profit/loss/breakeven?), but it doesn't matter I accept some slight lose to gain skills, and if I'm short in ped, I cam always just do pure sweating..

what weapon do you recommend i use that I can buy from arkadia TT?

someone broke the record in mining yesterday(I think this is why ET probably crashed lol) highest resources mined of a value of 217847 ped (21784.7$ !!!) in 3 years!

the question...how much did it cost him/her to find that? (at least the cost of tool used?) and how many skills do you need at least to achieve such find? I know luck is a huge factor, but I want to know and understand what else played a part on finding such a massive mine resource (tools used/skills/etc).

(the 100k+ medical tool was just a bit of trivia not intended to be a realistic goal :P it is powerful and super economical, while each heal is larger than most tools, the cost per use is much much lower)

"Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will never go hungry."

When selecting a weapon there are a few things to consider.

1. A weapon can never be used to its max effeciency until it says "SIB = Not Anymore" with your stats.

2. A weapons eco effeciency is highly dependent on the markup you pay, if you overpay for an eco weapon, it may no longer be eco for you.

3. At higher levels the appropriate Amplifier will almost always make your gun more economical while also making it more powerful.

Check out this online app for determining strenth and eco of a weapon determined by the markup you pay and your actual profession levels.

http://www.entropedia.info/WeaponCompare.aspx

Select a weapon you are considering, enter the markup you would pay for it. (100% if its from the trade terminal.)

Enter your actual Hit and Dmg Profession Levels.

Then look at what your Damage/Pec and Damage/Second are, those are the two things you want to consider when purchasing a weapon.

If your goal is mining, then I would recomend you use a knife or sword for your solo swunting. (melee doesnt work well in teams, so you would want a rifle for that)

Melee combat builds strength, and strength affects how much weight your avatar can carry around before he slows down to a walk. As a miner carrying ores around, weight is a big deal and your limit is something you will always want to be increasing.

(note: I noticed that the asi-10 doesnt have all of its information entered on the site, so it gives you a faulty perception of your effeciency using the chart. It shows what you would be if you were 'maxed' (SIB=Not Anymore) even if you enter 0.0 for your profession levels.

One other thing to consider when hunting low level mobs is using two weapons. One as your main weapon and one as a finisher.

Consider this:

A mob has 30hp and you have a gun that does a max of 10dmg.

you hit it for 6,7, 8, 6

thats means it has 3 hp left and your gun will do much more than that which will be a waste of your ped. So this is when you pull out a pistol that does 5dmg max for the last shot to reach your max effeciency on the kill.

Things to consider anyways ;P

Good Luck and have fun,

narfi

The mining ATH yesterday was by somoene in one of the top Mining Societies. My guess is they used either lvl 5, 7 or 8 amps to get it. (those are the more common amps used by professionals)

That would have cost them 3, 4, or 5ped per mining drop depending on the amp used. Compare that to the rookie mining i recomended above which uses 0.10 ped per drop you can see a considerable difference.

Big HOFs and ATHs like that are Promotional loots and purely based on luck. Some people beleive that if you loose enough to the system you will get one but many 'gamble' on that and are dissapointed.

It is better to play smart and within your means than to chase after the big loots.

Saying that though, either theory could fit this person. 1. They are a professional miner so have put in the time to have potentialy 'earned' a loot that size. 2. They drop alot more probes than anyone so the chance of them hitting the lucky 'promotional' claim is higher.

We all pick and create theories for how the loot works, but it is alot like Relegion. There really is one true way that it works, but none of us know it, and everything we do and beleive is based more on faith than facts.

IMO its best to grind for markup to cover your losses to the house, and then if you ever get a lucky loot it will be pure profit and allow you to play at a higher level than you would otherwise. (thats the case for me, I got a 16k ped hunting loot that I sold for an additional 32k ped of markup even though I wasn't chasing the big hofs)

narfi

---

Originally posted by narfi
(the 100k+ medical tool was just a bit of trivia not intended to be a realistic goal :P it is powerful and super economical, while each heal is larger than most tools, the cost per use is much much lower)
 
"Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will never go hungry."

 
When selecting a weapon there are a few things to consider.
1. A weapon can never be used to its max effeciency until it says "SIB = Not Anymore" with your stats.
2. A weapons eco effeciency is highly dependent on the markup you pay, if you overpay for an eco weapon, it may no longer be eco for you.
3. At higher levels the appropriate Amplifier will almost always make your gun more economical while also making it more powerful.
 
Check out this online app for determining strenth and eco of a weapon determined by the markup you pay and your actual profession levels.
http://www.entropedia.info/WeaponCompare.aspx
Select a weapon you are considering, enter the markup you would pay for it. (100% if its from the trade terminal.)
Enter your actual Hit and Dmg Profession Levels.
Then look at what your Damage/Pec and Damage/Second are, those are the two things you want to consider when purchasing a weapon.
If your goal is mining, then I would recomend you use a knife or sword for your solo swunting. (melee doesnt work well in teams, so you would want a rifle for that)
Melee combat builds strength, and strength affects how much weight your avatar can carry around before he slows down to a walk. As a miner carrying ores around, weight is a big deal and your limit is something you will always want to be increasing.
(note: I noticed that the asi-10 doesnt have all of its information entered on the site, so it gives you a faulty perception of your effeciency using the chart. It shows what you would be if you were 'maxed' (SIB=Not Anymore) even if you enter 0.0 for your profession levels.
 
One other thing to consider when hunting low level mobs is using two weapons. One as your main weapon and one as a finisher.
Consider this:
A mob has 30hp and you have a gun that does a max of 10dmg.
you hit it for 6,7, 8, 6
thats means it has 3 hp left and your gun will do much more than that which will be a waste of your ped. So this is when you pull out a pistol that does 5dmg max for the last shot to reach your max effeciency on the kill.
Things to consider anyways ;P
 
Good Luck and have fun,
narfi

---

yeah I read about the 2 weapons tactic somewhere, but I assume its for higher levels? because I'll be using TT weapons for now (assuming they are the lowest weapons in the game?).

a nice guy yesterday gave me some items worth 10 peds, and I purchased MANTA K-1 (shortblade) worth 10 ped from TT, I did some calculations on how many mobs I could kill until it break based on the tool in entropedia, if my calculations are correct, assuming maximum skill efficiency, I can kill 229 puny Caraboks (10 Health = 2 hits per mob cost = 4.35 pec) with 10 ped MANTA K-1 assuming ofc all successful attacks (would you please check my fail math :P ? )

now with swunting, each carabok have 10 Vibrant Sweats = 229*10 = 2290 V.sweats which sell for 3k/ped in Arkadia = (3*2290)/1000 = 6.87 ped without loot, in order to break even I would need loot worth at least 3.13 ped.

good to know that melee would help my mining, this is a good example of what I was looking for in hunting.

---

Originally posted by narfi

IMO its best to grind for markup to cover your losses to the house, and then if you ever get a lucky loot it will be pure profit and allow you to play at a higher level than you would otherwise. (thats the case for me, I got a 16k ped hunting loot that I sold for an additional 32k ped of markup even though I wasn't chasing the big hofs)
 
narfi
 

---

this is what I was planning to do too, I wasn't asking these questions to chase a big return like this, it was just to have an idea of how much higher tools will costs in general, I always play eco in MMOs, I never chase that rare high quality items or <weapon +10> .000001% upgrade or whatever to make money, I only asked to actually avoid relying on luck to make money..

and the result, every single MMO I touched a I became filthy rich in them :P , so this game is the ultimate challenge for me, therefor, the ultimate fun! the only problem tho, is if I broke/burned out of the game before I reach an economical statue, we will see how it goes...

Sounds like an interesting game,  can you play without the combat completely or do you have to have some combat?

I am intrigued might give the game a try

Edit: spelling because I am a moron

Originally posted by kirak2009

Sounds like an interesting game,  can you play without the combat completely or do you have to have some combat?

I am entrigued might give the game a try

be careful, this is a game thats all about money, lots of it, as it happens, like all casino's the only real winner is the house, its best you research into this game carefully before spending any money, because you can spend a lot without achieving anything constructive, or without recovering any of it, there is a very good reason why there is such a low playerbase for this game. probably a good idea to check out reviews that arent made by 'vested interests' also

Played this a few years back.. i looked into it quite a bit and decided to give it a go.

So i thought well I usually pay £30 for a new MMORPG and then £12 a month. So i initially put in £30 and then after the first month i only put in £12 a month.. I then played the game like any other MMO and had no issues at all, was pretty fun actually and have been thinking about giving it another go now it uses the cryengine :)

So think of it as a normal MMORPG with a standard monthly sub but with a cash shop if you want to spend extra.. and of course if you are lucky you could get away without paying  a monthly sub :)

Originally posted by kirak2009

Sounds like an interesting game,  can you play without the combat completely or do you have to have some combat?

I am intrigued might give the game a try

The most popular and easiest non-combat way to play is mining.

The other two popular ways are trading or buying a spaceship and running a taxie service between planets.

There are players in the game with no combat skills at all who do very well mining.

There are players in the game with no skills at all who have a blast playing the 'social' aspects.

There are players in the game who only hire out as medics and have no combat skills of their own.

There are a couple of high lvl crafters who have very low combat skills in relation to their other skills.

etc...

It is a sandbox game and you are never forced to go down any paths you dont want to. Besides the challenge I think this is a big part of why I like the game so much.

They have started introducing missions which are great for people that like direction and goals like that, but I have done very few of them since it really isnt my style. (though I likely will end up doing some of them for the challenge and the rewards)

Hope that makes sense.

And our pessimistic Phry above is correct, you should do the research to understand each activity before you spend on it. Only a moron wouldnt. He is also right that i have a vested interest in the game. I play it ALOT and have actual money in it, so of course I want it to do well. On the other hand realize that most reviews he will direct you towards will be from people who didn't actually play the game. Because of the dedication and challenge required to play in a real cash economy there is no Reviewer who can give it a fair review for the very reason that they cant put in the time required to even touch the tip of the iceburg of understanding how it works.

The game is what you make of it, everyone can play their own style and will either enjoy it or hate it based on their choices.

narfi

Originally posted by narfi

The game is what you make of it, everyone can play their own style and will either enjoy it or hate it based on their choices.

While talking of choices and the challenge of playing deposit free (I do understand that this is not the way the game is ment to play)...

First time I dipped my toe into this game I did nothing else than a bit sweating for about 2 hours or so. To take the "challenge" as you call trying to play w/o deposit it would require a lot more sweating (estimately around 2 weeks minimum, correct me if I got you wrong here). Unfortunately I remember sweating in itself as neither challenging nor all too amusing but time consuming and boring (even for just those 2 hours), as a typical case of what people usually call "grinding".

So is what you call a challenge actually a challenge of players patience?

Originally posted by picommander

While talking of choices and the challenge of playing deposit free (I do understand that this is not the way the game is ment to play)...

First time I dipped my toe into this game I did nothing else than a bit sweating for about 2 hours or so. To take the "challenge" as you call trying to play w/o deposit it would require a lot more sweating (estimately around 2 weeks minimum, correct me if I got you wrong here). Unfortunately I remember sweating in itself as neither challenging nor all too amusing but time consuming and boring (even for just those 2 hours), as a typical case of what people usually call "grinding".

So is what you call a challenge actually a challenge of players patience?

Well you could call it that, esp that first 1-2 weeks. (would be easier to just depo a few dollars)

But really, that initial burst of sweating to get started is not what i consider the challenge.

Anyone can sweat forever and slowly gain peds, but like you point out, that wouldnt be fun or challenging. (for most people)

I do have a girl in my society who has been playing for around 4 or more years who has spent most of her time sweating, and then either selling the sweat or making mind essence from it and selling it. She takes what she makes and gives it to friends or does other things with it. This is not something I understand, but she enjoys it, so who am I to say anything?

The challenge begins after that, where you take your ped that you worked hard to earn, and make it streatch or grow it into something to be proud of.

The challenge is in the hunting or mining or crafting in direct competition with the other players and against the game developers themselves in a struggle to increase your skills, your abilities and your ped ballance.

This is the true essence of the game rather you deposit to get your ped, or if you sweat or do other activities to get your ped.

hope that makes sense,

narfi

I have a question: if you spent a week with 10 dollars then how many hours did you spend with it?

I think that at worst you can say it's a casino and that it's still "pay to win". But I have to say that you are right that this can be a motivator to play as much as the reason to stay away. I think the reason why many people don't like it is because they have nothing to hang on that gives you a bit of solid gameplay. The sweating isn't sufficient because you can shoot a few squirrels after 10 hours of farming and that's it lol. The totally different thing with other games is that it really is your call how much money you want to put into the game. And I suppose it feels like a real market economy because the word of mouth about what works is going around and people actually respond to that. It seems very free because of that.

Can the game be enjoyable with $20-30 upfront and $15 each month? If not I will pass. 

I'm about to put $60 on a greyhound bet and spend about $10 a day on horses, so providing this has plenty of exploration and things to do, i might give it a try, as the money needed does seem marginal.

I wouldn't go above $40 a month though, except for very occasional things.