Of course volunteers are given placements.  They are either accepted or not accepted.  If accepted, they have certain responsibilities and restrictions.  And the buck ends at Talad's door.

And you're right.  A lot of what happens isn't good enough for me.  More to the point though, it isn't good enough for PlaneShift given the potential it has.

Do I speak for myself and only for myself?  Of course I do.  That doesn't mean others don't agree with me.  And if I'm right, it doesn't matter how many people agree with me or even like me.  Truth is not a popularity contest.

You continually post crap that suggests you're ignoring the message of my posts.  It's either that or you're just trying to cause trouble and provoke me into a flame war.  You reply to stuff that was never said, and at the same time you ignore stuff that has real substance to it.  This is not a political campaign.  We can afford to be real with one another.  We can afford to agree with one another, we can afford to admit we make mistakes, we can even afford to admit to being human.  But you want to present yourself as righteously infallible, and that's a problem.  Until that changes, how can we hope to move forward?  Until that changes, how can the project hope to survive?

I actually had an amused chuckle instead of being irritated at one of your posts. It takes a lot of work to become part of the Planeshift team. No one is given a possition they did not earn. If we went by your standards of 'not good enough', there would not be anyone on the team at all, and PS would be vaporware.

You want the honest truth? Only those with strong personalities and dedication stay long in Planeshift. They often do have big egos. There is a lot of head butting at times (not constantly). Tempers will sometimes flare. In the end, things are created for the better. Such is the scene when you get so many creative minds in one place. The dynamic is what makes PlaneShift move forward. Will these strong personalities clash with players at times? Of course. The current Settings leader was a hellraiser as a player, and put quite a bug in the Dev's ears. If the Devs had been humble in response, I very much doupt if he would be Settings leader.

Some players, such as yourself, have issues with these strong personalities, and for some reason think they should be meager and humble. That is not going to happen, and I would dismay the day it did. That would be the day Planeshift started to fade.

The Devs of PS are proud of what they have done, and they should be. Look around on the net. Try to find a single successful MMO project out there that is trying to do what Planeshift is. Strong personalities make a strong team. Stong personalities also tend to roll over others, but they will stand their ground. A weak Dev team will let players second guess them all the time, and get flattened in the proccess. GMs who are not tough or thick-skinned will get rolled over by players who do not respect them. Such is the way of things.

Despite what  -you- think, the project is moving forward, and it will survive. The Dev team is too strong to allow otherwise. Some players will be lost along the way, but more will always come. The cycle of players is no diferent than other games.

I am not ignoring the message in your posts. It is simply wrong.

This is my final post on the subject. You can respond, but again, it is pointless. PlaneShift is not made by backseat drivers. You want changes, you will have to get out of the kiddy seat and grab the wheel.

Originally posted by UtMoon

The current Settings leader was a hellraiser as a player, and put quite a bug in the Dev's ears. If the Devs had been humble in response, I very much doupt if he would be Settings leader.

Some players, such as yourself, have issues with these strong personalities, and for some reason think they should be meager and humble. That is not going to happen, and I would dismay the day it did. That would be the day Planeshift started to fade.

Meager?  No.  Humble?  More humble than they're being.  Taking the guy you're talking about as an example, he tells WTB members that humility is very important if they want to become a dev.  His definition of humility though means accepting criticism from your superiors with an open ear.  What's ironic is that he and others are unable to hear criticism when it comes from people they see as beneath them, mainly the players.  If you want evidence for this just look through his posts on the official forum.

You seem to think that treating others fairly is a sign of weakness.  Is this whole mission based on your fear of appearing vulnerable?

Originally posted by UtMoon

I actually had an amused chuckle instead of being irritated at one of your posts. It takes a lot of work to become part of the Planeshift team. No one is given a possition they did not earn. If we went by your standards of 'not good enough', there would not be anyone on the team at all, and PS would be vaporware.

Again, you are distorting things.  What's not good enough is how certain individuals treat the players.  I was not saying that the content of Planeshift isn't good enough (although there are things that need to be improved on that front as well!).

Originally posted by UtMoon

Strong personalities make a strong team. Stong personalities also tend to roll over others, but they will stand their ground. A weak Dev team will let players second guess them all the time, and get flattened in the proccess. GMs who are not tough or thick-skinned will get rolled over by players who do not respect them. Such is the way of things.

Ah yes, the "R" word.

Someone who has to feel big and important by throwing his weight around is not strong.  He is weak, insecure, transparent, and a liability to anything he is associated with.

The fact that you think such behaviour is acceptable is disturbing and pathetic.

And yet, I am on the team, and a well known respected member of the community, and you are nothing. Your definition of 'fair' is the disturbing thing here. Grow up and welcome to the real world.

If this is a Dev vs Player conversation taking place here on the boards... 1v1... I'd say take it to private messages or whatever. 

It would be nice if  the SOE Dev's would hop on the boards and get into an open debate like this with their players, though. 

...

I don't know if this was player calling Dev 'nothing' or Dev telling player 'you are nothing', but either way... this thing lost logic and entered the realm of emotion.  No point is going to get through on either side.

Agreed, BlackWatch.

In the meantime, the PlaneShift project will continue to move forward. Some people will like it. Some people will not. Such is life. Try to please everyone at once, and in the end you please no one.

Originally posted by UtMoon

And yet, I am on the team,

Yes, I read the thread today explaining how the departure of you and Xillix was an april fool's day joke in poor taste.  To quote you...

"Honestly, do you think Xillix would really leave when there are all these fresh n00bs to eat?"

Very nice.

Originally posted by UtMoon

Grow up and welcome to the real world.

The real world is exactly what I've been trying to tell you about.  We all know that the devs have dictatorial powers within their own sphere, but you make the bed you sleep in.

Originally posted by UtMoon

In the meantime, the PlaneShift project will continue to move forward.

In one shape or another.  But the developers are scaring away and alienating potential contributers while giving the project a bad name.  Plus there's the whole issue of listening to your testers and being open to negative feedback.

You continue to amuse me. The phrase "grasping at straws" comes to mind. "Nice."? From someone like you, I'll take it as a compliment. We'll eat humble pie the day we actually need people like you around. Until then, have fun.

I grant you the right to have the last word here, as you will have it nowhere that actually matters. We reserve that right for good folks who actually contribute something. Who? Well, here is bit of a list: hydlaa.com/smf/index.php

Perhaps you are on it, but I have my doubts.

Originally posted by pstruth Originally posted by UtMoon In the meantime, the PlaneShift project will continue to move forward.

 

Originally posted by UtMoon

And yet, I am on the team,

Yes, I read the thread today explaining how the departure of you and Xillix was an april fool's day joke in poor taste.  To quote you...

 "Honestly, do you think Xillix would really leave when there are all these fresh n00bs to eat?"

 Very nice.

________________________________________

Umm thats more or less a bit of 'humor' if you were really a part of our wonderful community you would know that                                                                                                                                           http://qdb.ps-mc.com/?786  and http://qdb.ps-mc.com/?796                                                                           

    Now I admit I've not started this thread from the very begging but I am appalled at out of hand this is getting. Join the settings team, see for yourself the amount of work these guys volunteer on a daily bases.  I was a member of the team for a few months, I did a few tasks wrote some quests and overall decided it was not something I was happy doing. I am more of a people person and I'd rather be in game encouraging role play and dealing with people and teaching people how to play. I have however gained a great respect for EVERY member of the Planeshift Dev team. No one gets paid for what they are doing and most the time they get shown little or no appreciation  for what they do.  Planeshift is not your typcial MMORPG and thats what I love about it. when it says RPG it means it, and it can really be a lot of fun if you get involved as a player or a team member. That said I've also had many a disagreements with the team, some even recently. But Xillix took time out of his huge work load to sit down talk to me one on one and work things out so that I could stay IC and with the settings as well, now we may not have agreed on everything right away, but I still repsect him and know that he has a job to do, and he's doing a hell of a lot better than I could do.  So even if I don't always agree with everything the teams does 100% does not mean I am going to be run off, I love the players as much as anything, its really a great community once you get involved.

"The great successful men of the world have used their imagination…they think ahead and create their mental picture in all its details, filling in here, adding a little there, altering this a bit and that a bit, but steadily building - steadily building." -Robert Collier

 

Originally posted by UtMoon

You continue to amuse me. The phrase "grasping at straws" comes to mind. "Nice."? From someone like you, I'll take it as a compliment. We'll eat humble pie the day we actually need people like you around. Until then, have fun.

I grant you the right to have the last word here, as you will have it nowhere that actually matters. We reserve that right for good folks who actually contribute something. Who? Well, here is bit of a list: hydlaa.com/smf/index.php

Perhaps you are on it, but I have my doubts.

I'm sorry if that's all you got out of what people have posted.  I think your response puts your sincerity in question, but I guess it doesn't matter at this point.

Originally posted by AeriannaKzin
Now I admit I've not started this thread from the very begging but I am appalled at out of hand this is getting. Join the settings team, see for yourself the amount of work these guys volunteer on a daily bases.  I was a member of the team for a few months, I did a few tasks wrote some quests and overall decided it was not something I was happy doing. I am more of a people person and I'd rather be in game encouraging role play and dealing with people and teaching people how to play. I have however gained a great respect for EVERY member of the Planeshift Dev team. No one gets paid for what they are doing and most the time they get shown little or no appreciation  for what they do.  Planeshift is not your typcial MMORPG and thats what I love about it. when it says RPG it means it, and it can really be a lot of fun if you get involved as a player or a team member. That said I've also had many a disagreements with the team, some even recently. But Xillix took time out of his huge work load to sit down talk to me one on one and work things out so that I could stay IC and with the settings as well, now we may not have agreed on everything right away, but I still repsect him and know that he has a job to do, and he's doing a hell of a lot better than I could do.  So even if I don't always agree with everything the teams does 100% does not mean I am going to be run off, I love the players as much as anything, its really a great community once you get involved.

Don't get me wrong.  I love the concept of the Planeshift project, I appreciate the hard work that volunteers have put into it, and I think the team has accomplished great things given the resources available.  But the complaints people have, and the improvements that people wish to see, these are all valid concerns and suggestions.  I am very concerned with the attitude of certain individuals. Negative feedback is banned, criticism is punished, and ballanced reviews are dismissed reflexively.  I'm very concerned with a culture where spitting on testers and players is considered necessary to survival and authority.  I'm very concerned with the lack of leadership shown when it comes to managing the dev team and taking care of the needs of its members as well as the Planeshift community.  When Xillix faked leaving the PS community, I thought it was serious and I wasn't even surprised by it given all I've seen happen.  I was disappointed when I got to the part where Xillix blamed his departure on players saying bad things about the game, but that part only reinforces the concerns I and others have with regards to the attitude certain devs exhibit.  Xillix preaches humility and teamwork, but what we see is arrogance and school-yard bullying.  It's a real problem, it's a prevalent one, it's one that many people agree is real, and it's a problem that has the potential to kill the project.

Wow... well I for one have never felt 'spit upon' or "bullied' and trust me, I've had my issues with Xillix.

Do you really have nothing better to do than wine and complain and trash things? Do you have one nice thing to say about PS? Have you ever tried to look on the bright side of things? I don't know maybe I was just brought up that way and thats why it usually takes a lot to upset or piss me off, but I am a happy cheerful person for it

When you have a problem or an issue with someone I find it helps to go directly to that specific person, find out the truth solve the issue, cut out the crap in between. In the end everyone around you much happier and can go on living their lives.

Aeri

"Whoever is happy will make others happy too. He who has courage and faith will never perish in misery."
-Anne Frank

Originally posted by AeriannaKzin

Do you really have nothing better to do than wine and complain and trash things? Do you have one nice thing to say about PS?

In fact I've been saying many good things about PS all along.  It's just that I say good things and bad things instead of all good things, so I've come under attack, as have many others.