Originally posted by Tuxide

Don't know how you can speak for someone else, pstruth. The person obviously hasn't responded yet.

Sorry, you are correct, I got the threads mixed up. It's possible that Kyleran recieved it as a good natured joke. I know that if I were in his shoes, that would not be my reaction, but I'm not Kyleran.

Still, it wasn't a good way to respond. Kyleran was saying "this is not the right game for me for such and such reasons", and QueenofFools came out swinging.

 

Originally posted by moteyalpha

Planeshift is player friendly as far as I have seen. If you take things in context of the internet. I would like to see you as an OP. There would be one person left in the channel -you- lol

Is this about how Planeshift can be more player friendly or about XilliX, you are confusing me?

As far a running people down, there are flame wars like -this thread- every day and if you don't develop a little perspective it will eat you up.

Huh?

I think Planeshift does a good job of being friendly to new players, I felt at home and in fact someone said you are part of the family when I first went to the #Planeshift site. I thought that might be a little too friendly but what do I know.  Your comments don't even bother me. I find it a bit cryptic though. When I have a problem with somebody at PS I just go to the groups or email somebody with my complaints. I actually don't expect to get a good result every time but is more direct and solves more problems. If I have a problem with XilliX or any other dev or GM or player or anybody , here is what I do:

I log onto IRC /join #planeshift I type "hello (insert person) why do you do this I don't agree" and a discussion ensues. 

Here is what I would do:

"Hey XilliX don't you think you were a bit harsh with the Kyleran post" and he would say what I don't know but then that would not involve me here would it?

You should try that, I am there a lot too.

 

 

 

Oh. Let me make it clear that I don't want to paint Planeshift as entirely bad. I think there's a lot of good, and there is some bad.

As far as messaging QueenofFools privately, pointing out the nature of his comments is relevant to the discussion we're having. I don't see what motivation there is for me to keep my reaction private, especially if Kyleran was bothered by the post QOF made.

There you go assuming again, want me to go IG and find the person who posted and ask them what they think and have them post their opinion here?

It is a support issue, IF you think a wrong has been done say so and I am off to find Kyleran?

You're call.

 

    I honestly don't think you are completely negative about Planeshift, but I am serious about what I mean. The community is important to me and if there is something rotten going on I want it fixed! Things do happen and  I try to rectify what I can. You aren't happy with the way things are run and it is a fact that just like the software, many thing can be improved but like I tell people when they say that "x" is spelled wrong or "y" doesn't do what is supposed to --- Make a bug Track report and we can get it fixed. It isn't that easy when it comes to people, you can't just revert opinions once they are formed and that is a human thing.  As far as Kyleran is concerned, he is a long time member of MMORPG and he can be PM'd if you think this is a real issue. I personally think it is not, but I can't really say for someone else. I would defer to anyone else in this matter and if Kyleran were worried about it he would watch threads he posts like everyone else. My guess is he is having a good laugh at how much time people spend on some silly little comment that he ignored. A person who works on the game could say "my feelings are hurt he diss'd the tutorial and the game" and would they not be just as slighted? What of the feelings of the people who spend as much as 50 hours a week fixing things and tracking bugs.

 

I SERIOUSLY want to hear any constructive criticism you have and deal with it . The Planeshift IRC is as public as here and I am not asking you to stop pointing out flaws, just give us something we can fix. Please.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Originally posted by moteyalpha

There you go assuming again, want me to go IG and find the person who posted and ask them what they think and have them post their opinion here?

It is a support issue, IF you think a wrong has been done say so and I am off to find Kyleran?

You're call.

If Kyleran wasn't bothered by QOF's post, does that mean QOF's post was ok?

 

 

Originally posted by Tuxide     Furthermore, publicly accusing one of being an ass is also an ass-move in itself.

Interesting.

Originally posted by moteyalpha

    I honestly don't think you are completely negative about Planeshift, but I am serious about what I mean. The community is important to me and if there is something rotten going on I want it fixed! Things do happen and  I try to rectify what I can. You aren't happy with the way things are run and it is a fact that just like the software, many thing can be improved but like I tell people when they say that "x" is spelled wrong or "y" doesn't do what is supposed to --- Make a bug Track report and we can get it fixed. It isn't that easy when it comes to people, you can't just revert opinions once they are formed and that is a human thing.  As far as Kyleran is concerned, he is a long time member of MMORPG and he can be PM'd if you think this is a real issue. I personally think it is not, but I can't really say for someone else. I would defer to anyone else in this matter and if Kyleran were worried about it he would watch threads he posts like everyone else. My guess is he is having a good laugh at how much time people spend on some silly little comment that he ignored. A person who works on the game could say "my feelings are hurt he diss'd the tutorial and the game" and would they not be just as slighted? What of the feelings of the people who spend as much as 50 hours a week fixing things and tracking bugs.

 

I SERIOUSLY want to hear any constructive criticism you have and deal with it . The Planeshift IRC is as public as here and I am not asking you to stop pointing out flaws, just give us something we can fix. Please.

The thing is, people aren't machines. You can't work with them like you work with code.

As far as Kyleran is concerned, he's really irrelevant. The point I was trying to make is that QOF's post would be taken negatively by the average person. If Kyleran saw nothing wrong with the post, there would still be a problem.

What does it mean to "diss" something? Do you mean to say that pointing out ways the game could be improved is inherently disrespectful? Are you saying that a person cannot enjoy the game and believe in the dev team and yet at the same time see ways things could be improved? I think that's foolish.

I do not see Planeshift's IRC channel as free or public,  though some disagree. Criticism of the dev team is not tolerated there. It's against the rules to talk about anything to do with the GM team. The moderation there is very facist. The conversations on these forums would not be possible on the IRC channel. Plus there's the fact that the text doesn't stick around. You can't post something, spend a day at the office, then come back and see what people said in reply. Everything there is in real time and is temporary. Now, that's convenient if you don't want anything to stick around, but that's rather the opposite of public.

Just a bit of forewarning for those who will try the game. If you attempt to play getting through the tutorial does require that you read every word and follow the instructions it gives you.

I really had no trouble at all with the tutorial and I am not a game player. I prefer programming and I spend a lot of time in terminal mode. I don't think it is too complex, Sad to say I personally have told people who asked me about regular expressions to read about it themselves, there is just no easy way to explain it in a one-liner. Some things that have great value require a little effort . I have noticed that the link for tutorial has popped up pretty quickly when people come to #planeshift IRC and ask about the tutorial. And there is the problem, you do actually have to read the text, but considering the years of development and the commitment of people like Talad (and others too numerous to mention) is 2 minutes of reading time too much to ask for unlimited FREE time of play? IMHO how can anyone complain about that?

 

 

 

I am actually impressed by the tutorial. It's very evident that it was written with the shortcomings of the quest system in mind. I'm also happy that the dev team released a spoiler for the quest, something that's never been done for the players before.

I personally love the tutorial and i think it is a great addition to the game. Yes it may be seen as an annoyance to those who just want to "get into the game" but the thing is, PlaneShift is not that kind of game that you can just jump into. Im not really sure how to explain this, but its a lot "slower" then a lot of games, for example, it would take months of constant training to max out your character, whereas that might not be the case with other games. The tutorial explains in-depth some of the most difficult concepts to grasp, and is very informative if people take the time to actually read.

I honestly have no pity for someone who cannot get through the tutorial (barring language barriers obviously) because it is very straightforward and is only difficult if you dont bother to read ;) Oh and it takes 10 minutes...TOPS!!! :D

Originally posted by Anumesa
PlaneShift is not that kind of game that you can just jump into... I honestly have no pity for someone who cannot get through the tutorial (barring language barriers obviously) because it is very straightforward and is only difficult if you dont bother to read ;)

There's no reason that Planeshift's learning curve can't be improved. If parts of the game are frustrating to newcomers, it is a bad thing.

The tutorial is designed to be intuitive, but if someone has difficulty with it I see no reason to punish that person or blame them for the shortcomings of the game.

I gave planeshift a try.  As a long time linux user and huge fan of open source software I really like the ideas behind planeshift.  Also, The dated graphics don't bother me as graphics are the least important thing to me in a game.  Unfortuanetly, I just couldn't deal with the having to type to NPC's thing.  I understand the reasons behind doing it, i personally just didn't enjoy it. 

I tried the tutorial yesterday and it seemed fine, if a bit old fashioned as in you have to actually write whole sentences or key words (reminded me alot of EQ1). However I got disconnected during the tutorial, I will try again later on.

But of course it is good if a game is as intuitive as possible, it can have great depth in gameplay but an easy interface.

We are working on it continually. Unfortunately, the single largest problem people tend to encounter is directly related to not reading.

 

Most game have audio and such to fill in for these needs in orienting a person to a new game. We really do not have the resources to add the kind of rich tutorial experience many games provide.

 

The second problem people experience is troubles if they log off in the middle of the tutorial or if the server crashes. The engine team is working on a solution.

I noticed many here are saying the game is group friendly and the community is very good, well I personally did not find that kind of experience, I had tech difficultys with the installation a while back and as I tried to get help in the forums I found nothing but people that wont get off there high horse and think they know better then you and quite rude in there own way.

 

Now of course a game like this will have a more mature community but when I did try it even before then when the game installed for me the people where taking rp way to seriously and trying to police everything, you I agree keeping the channels and the game more rp since that is the devolopment but ooc has existed for a long time and should not be frowned upon just because they dont like it.

It is not only there game its everyone who plays it, rp is something thats suppose to be fun not serious anyways these are just my experiences.

I agree that the community has its snobs and trolls, but going out of character is against the rules if it's done excessively or in a way that disrupts others.  Planeshift is a roleplaying game and going OOC should be frowned upon.

Interesting to find my name mentioned in so many replies.  And yes, I did find the comment about  my needing to read rather flippant, especially when my real complaint/comments related to difficulty moving my character due to controls that I felt were awkward.

I mentioned the parser not because I don't care to read (for heaven's sake, I play EVE, all we do is read) but I'm not a fan of having to type, especially when it involves "guessing" what the npc want's me to say.  That's an old school technique that I gave up years ago in games such as Bard's Tale, Wizardry and Might and Magic, along with my graph paper.

But just remember, I was playing these games before many of you were even born, and attempting to belittle my opinion (which you asked for, remember?) is certainly not the best way to win me to your side.

 

Originally posted by Kyleran

Interesting to find my name mentioned in so many replies.  And yes, I did find the comment about  my needing to read rather flippant, especially when my real complaint/comments related to difficulty moving my character due to controls that I felt were awkward.

I mentioned the parser not because I don't care to read (for heaven's sake, I play EVE, all we do is read) but I'm not a fan of having to type, especially when it involves "guessing" what the npc want's me to say.  That's an old school technique that I gave up years ago in games such as Bard's Tale, Wizardry and Might and Magic, along with my graph paper.

But just remember, I was playing these games before many of you were even born, and attempting to belittle my opinion (which you asked for, remember?) is certainly not the best way to win me to your side.

 

Remember the Bard's Tale copy protection wheel?

Umm rp or not, it should never be constantly forced not everyone feels like rping everyime they login frowning upon ooc is a snobby attitude if people want you to be opened to rp and if your not they call you narrow minded then why cant rp people be opened to ooc?

It should be a choice all these mmos you can roleplay or not.

Oh I dont remember it was long ago it was in the tech forums on the main site more then likely.