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Paragon Studios
MMORPG | Genre:Super-Hero | Status:Cancelled  (est.rel 04/27/04)  | Pub:NCSoft
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City of Heroes Forum » Paragon City Hall (General) » CoX peak numbers Jack Emmert quote

15 posts found
  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 2762

I actually still like MMORPGs

 
OP  4/01/13 6:59:02 PM#1

"At our peak, we had 180,000 subscribers" from an article on GameFront.

I must admit I am shocked, that seems very low. For it's peak. I would have thought thats more of what they had towards the end there!

  HighMarshal

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/24/03
Posts: 241

4/01/13 7:02:26 PM#2
HE hasn't been anywhere near CoX for several years, so I doubt he has nay idea how many players were there near the end.
  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 2762

I actually still like MMORPGs

 
OP  4/01/13 7:04:51 PM#3
Originally posted by HighMarshal
HE hasn't been anywhere near CoX for several years, so I doubt he has nay idea how many players were there near the end.

Right, but do you really think it was MORE popular at the end than it was in the beginning? I suppose it's possible but doubtful.

  Xiaoki

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/07/04
Posts: 2427

4/01/13 7:22:07 PM#4

For when Cryptic was running CoX? Totally believable. Most likely when City of Villains released.


He also said a while back that CoX would fluctuate between 100,000 and 150,000 constantly. It would stay near 100,000 then jump up to around 150,000 when a new Issue was released then slide back down to 100,000.

  lugal

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/13/08
Posts: 503

4/01/13 7:30:55 PM#5
For the era that game came out in, those are solid numbers. Do not measure that game against modern expectations.

Roses are red
Violets are blue
The reviewer has a mishapen head
Which means his opinion is skewed
...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley

  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 2762

I actually still like MMORPGs

 
OP  4/01/13 7:30:59 PM#6
Originally posted by Xiaoki

For when Cryptic was running CoX? Totally believable. Most likely when City of Villains released.


He also said a while back that CoX would fluctuate between 100,000 and 150,000 constantly. It would stay near 100,000 then jump up to around 150,000 when a new Issue was released then slide back down to 100,000.

I just always figured at it's peak it might have been closer to 500k. I think I need to re-evaluate what a healthy MMO population is!

  Linna

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/05
Posts: 388

Those who do not know their history, are bound to step in it.

4/03/13 3:51:44 AM#7
Originally posted by Fendel84M
Originally posted by Xiaoki

For when Cryptic was running CoX? Totally believable. Most likely when City of Villains released.


He also said a while back that CoX would fluctuate between 100,000 and 150,000 constantly. It would stay near 100,000 then jump up to around 150,000 when a new Issue was released then slide back down to 100,000.

I just always figured at it's peak it might have been closer to 500k. I think I need to re-evaluate what a healthy MMO population is!

Like a previous poster already said, this WAS considered a very healthy MMO population. When COH was released, EQ1 was still considered an anomalous monster with it's 500K subs. SWG with its 220K was a game with a larger than average subscription base.

This is not to say those games made no profit however. MMO's have since become more mainstream AND a lot more expensive to make (partly due to adding things like voice-overs and cutscenes), so for new games a lot more box sales are needed to break even and/or make a profit. And that, basically,  is what determines what is a healthy population: enough people to reach and maintain those magical black figures.

  alakram

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/02/06
Posts: 2225

4/03/13 4:06:36 AM#8
Originally posted by Fendel84M

"At our peak, we had 180,000 subscribers" from an article on GameFront.

I must admit I am shocked, that seems very low. For it's peak. I would have thought thats more of what they had towards the end there!

180,000 * 15 $ = 2,700,000 $ per month.

Thats loads of money.

100,000 * 15 $ = 1,500,000 $ per month

Still loads of money.

-=AlaKraM=-
Don't fight against poverty, fight against greed.
My Lord of the Rings Gallery

  Xiaoki

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/07/04
Posts: 2427

4/06/13 11:30:33 PM#9


Originally posted by alakram

Originally posted by Fendel84M "At our peak, we had 180,000 subscribers" from an article on GameFront. I must admit I am shocked, that seems very low. For it's peak. I would have thought thats more of what they had towards the end there!
180,000 * 15 $ = 2,700,000 $ per month.

Thats loads of money.

100,000 * 15 $ = 1,500,000 $ per month

Still loads of money.



Not really.


How much did ongoing maintenance cost? How much did development of the Issues cost? The expansions? Advertising? Server upkeep? Customer service?


When bills like that pile up $1.5 million isnt quite "loads of money" anymore.

  Omali

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/16/09
Posts: 1093

4/07/13 12:39:23 AM#10
Originally posted by Xiaoki

 


Originally posted by alakram

Originally posted by Fendel84M "At our peak, we had 180,000 subscribers" from an article on GameFront. I must admit I am shocked, that seems very low. For it's peak. I would have thought thats more of what they had towards the end there!
180,000 * 15 $ = 2,700,000 $ per month.

 

Thats loads of money.

100,000 * 15 $ = 1,500,000 $ per month

Still loads of money.



Not really.

 


How much did ongoing maintenance cost? How much did development of the Issues cost? The expansions? Advertising? Server upkeep? Customer service?


When bills like that pile up $1.5 million isnt quite "loads of money" anymore.

From what little we've managed to get out of NCSoft, it looks like City of Heroes was profitable (it was pretty stable at about $2.4 million per quarter if I'm remembering correctly) but Paragon Studios was eating up that profit and then some with a couple other mismanaged projects. NCSoft hasn't commented on City of Heroes speciifically, but they did explicitly state that Paragon Studios was not making a profit when it was shut down, and I have a feeling that these extra projects have some blame in it.

  waynejr2

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3711

RIP City of Heroes!

4/07/13 12:46:12 AM#11
Originally posted by Fendel84M
Originally posted by Xiaoki

For when Cryptic was running CoX? Totally believable. Most likely when City of Villains released.


He also said a while back that CoX would fluctuate between 100,000 and 150,000 constantly. It would stay near 100,000 then jump up to around 150,000 when a new Issue was released then slide back down to 100,000.

I just always figured at it's peak it might have been closer to 500k. I think I need to re-evaluate what a healthy MMO population is!

 Pre wow, it was good numbers.  Those are subs after the 30 day trial.  It also held numbers for a long time as the game was unique.  It's perhaps my favorite mmorpg of all time and had some great features.

  Xiaoki

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/07/04
Posts: 2427

4/07/13 3:49:28 PM#12


Originally posted by Omali

Originally posted by Xiaoki  

Originally posted by alakram

Originally posted by Fendel84M "At our peak, we had 180,000 subscribers" from an article on GameFront. I must admit I am shocked, that seems very low. For it's peak. I would have thought thats more of what they had towards the end there!
180,000 * 15 $ = 2,700,000 $ per month.   Thats loads of money. 100,000 * 15 $ = 1,500,000 $ per month Still loads of money.
Not really.   How much did ongoing maintenance cost? How much did development of the Issues cost? The expansions? Advertising? Server upkeep? Customer service? When bills like that pile up $1.5 million isnt quite "loads of money" anymore.
From what little we've managed to get out of NCSoft, it looks like City of Heroes was profitable (it was pretty stable at about $2.4 million per quarter if I'm remembering correctly) but Paragon Studios was eating up that profit and then some with a couple other mismanaged projects. NCSoft hasn't commented on City of Heroes speciifically, but they did explicitly state that Paragon Studios was not making a profit when it was shut down, and I have a feeling that these extra projects have some blame in it.


Mismanaged and cancelled projects? What projects?


Outside of upkeep and Issues the only thing that Paragon actually developed was Going Rogue.


They tried to get funding for CoH2 but NCSoft turned them down.

  therain93

Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/06
Posts: 2047

"Racing to endgame is like racing to the end of your vacation."

4/08/13 8:59:14 PM#13
Originally posted by Fendel84M
Originally posted by Xiaoki

For when Cryptic was running CoX? Totally believable. Most likely when City of Villains released.


He also said a while back that CoX would fluctuate between 100,000 and 150,000 constantly. It would stay near 100,000 then jump up to around 150,000 when a new Issue was released then slide back down to 100,000.

I just always figured at it's peak it might have been closer to 500k. I think I need to re-evaluate what a healthy MMO population is!

No way.  As much as I loved the game, no way did it ever touch that. 300k was enviable pre-wow (i.e. star wars galaxies territory), but 150ish was very much respectable (again, if you never aspired to wow numbers).

  therain93

Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/06
Posts: 2047

"Racing to endgame is like racing to the end of your vacation."

4/08/13 9:02:06 PM#14
Originally posted by Xiaoki

 


Originally posted by Omali

Originally posted by Xiaoki  

Originally posted by alakram

Originally posted by Fendel84M "At our peak, we had 180,000 subscribers" from an article on GameFront. I must admit I am shocked, that seems very low. For it's peak. I would have thought thats more of what they had towards the end there!
180,000 * 15 $ = 2,700,000 $ per month.   Thats loads of money. 100,000 * 15 $ = 1,500,000 $ per month Still loads of money.
Not really.   How much did ongoing maintenance cost? How much did development of the Issues cost? The expansions? Advertising? Server upkeep? Customer service? When bills like that pile up $1.5 million isnt quite "loads of money" anymore.
From what little we've managed to get out of NCSoft, it looks like City of Heroes was profitable (it was pretty stable at about $2.4 million per quarter if I'm remembering correctly) but Paragon Studios was eating up that profit and then some with a couple other mismanaged projects. NCSoft hasn't commented on City of Heroes speciifically, but they did explicitly state that Paragon Studios was not making a profit when it was shut down, and I have a feeling that these extra projects have some blame in it.

Mismanaged and cancelled projects? What projects?

 


Outside of upkeep and Issues the only thing that Paragon actually developed was Going Rogue.


They tried to get funding for CoH2 but NCSoft turned them down.

Paragon was allegedly working on a second game, which, naturally while being developed was not generating revenue, but incurring costs (effectively doubling the staffing)....

  firefly2003

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/16/08
Posts: 2568

I miss you Star Wars Galaxies...:(

5/10/13 9:05:21 PM#15
Originally posted by lugal
For the era that game came out in, those are solid numbers. Do not measure that game against modern expectations.

Don't measure games against the 1 anomaly in the industry....