Jumpgate Evolution Forum » General Discussion » No Item and Ship loss?

Game breaker if you can die and not lose your cargo and ship.

The whole excitement of Eve is the fact that if you die it actually hurts. The only draw back of Eve was the "shitty point and clicky" (c) combat.

This is a real shame as I had high hopes that JGE was going to be EVE with twitch based combat.

Some1 at offical forums already called it  Auto Assault in Space. FIY.

Isn't that the way Jumpgate has always been?

     In case you haven't been told or know..  People wanting PvP with consequences are probably 1% of the market.. Why on hell's Earth would you want to design a game that targets that small percentage?  If JGE is anything like Eve without the PvP penalty, I wouldn't be surprised to see 33%, if not more, of Eve's server population drop like a prom dress..  That is one drawing point games like WoW have in concerns of PvP..  ONLY rewards are possible for PvP, with NO penalty..

     If I spent the better 1/2 of the hour mining raw materials ONLY to lose it to a pair of snot nosed teenages that like to gang up and pirate weaker ships.. NO thanks..

What I meant was, The game mechanic of JGE hasn't changed since JG so it's a bit late to complain about no ship loss. If I'm wrong, fair enough, but that's the impression I got a few years ago.

And, hey, it's not like there isn't a FFA Full Loot PvP game out there at the moment...

The game is going to be niche enough just being a space based game...
You wanna make it more niche, by giving a steep death penalty?
Not a good idea.

No penalty for dieing is actually what worries me most about this game.  Yes having a game you can jump on and play for a while, die, respawn play, kill, die, respawn, ect is fun, but it doesn't have the depth and excitment needed to keep players subscribed.  The majority of hardcore Eve-Online fans that have been playing the longest are the ones that are in 0.0 alliances where there are no rules and when you lose a ship it's gone, and with out that hardcore aspect this game is going to be as casual as ever.  IMO a game simply can't be all casual but at the same time it can't be all hardcore, (I hate to keep bringing eve up but...) Eve managed this with the high-sec, low-sec, no-sec system where it gives the players the choice on lifestyle.  And what works so well in Eve is that some players will choose to stay in high-sec while some will choose to stay in no-sec where they make that their home permenetly while others will go back and forth between the 2 (but it's not all that easy to simply jump into high-sec and scream "haha I'm safe").  Now you can not throw instansed pvp or even have a battle-ground areas and call that equal to what Eve has managaed.  The best way for any game to balance is to have large safe areas and large contestable areas where guild politics will govern the control of the land, economy, and laws.  If Jumpgate doesn't see this then it is not going to have the longterm subscriptions that Eve has managed.  I plan on buying this game and playing it, but if there is no hardcore depth I will not play for more than a month or 2.

HAHAHA I just wanna say I jumped on these forums to see what the latest pvp talk about this game was and this was the first thread I found.  Wow the first page is almost all pvp discussion threads.  PVP oriented players being 1% of the market my ass.  I agree with all the flamers on this forum, this game is going to fail.

Originally posted by Boosthungry

 PVP oriented players being 1% of the market my ass.  I agree with all the flamers on this forum, this game is going to fail.

Not PvP players, there about 50-60% of the market... People looking PvP with a steep Death Penalty, IE Item lost is only at about 1%. Casual don't like that kinda thing.

Hell my buddy doesn't like the fact Aion has XP lost on death... granted WoW was his 1st MMO.

Originally posted by Boosthungry

HAHAHA I just wanna say I jumped on these forums to see what the latest pvp talk about this game was and this was the first thread I found.  Wow the first page is almost all pvp discussion threads.  PVP oriented players being 1% of the market my ass.  I agree with all the flamers on this forum, this game is going to fail.

     It amazes me how people can read .. but still are illiterate..    NO ONE said PvP makes up 1% of the market..   I think you need to reread the POST again and this time.. READ all the words and put them together..    There are over 20 million people estimated playing MMO's worldwide..and how many are subscribers to PvP (item loss) games?   lmaooooooo   NEXT..

Its good that there will be casual space mmo, this is something we lack atm. For more hardcore players better choice will be eve and incoming black propecy me thinks

Eh, you should at least lose your ship if someone blows you up.

This was a pretty weak decision from the devs.

Originally posted by Zzulu

Eh, you should at least lose your ship if someone blows you up.

Nah, I don't have a problem not having ship lost or you don't lose you cargo on death.
But items on the ship should have to be replaced...

Like say you buy a ship...
it comes with Two "x" Lasers and an "x" Engine...
You buy Two "y" Lasers and an "y" Engine to upgrade your ship.
On death you lost the upgrades and have to buy new ones or just deal with using the default weapons, and engine.

I do worry that no item lost will hurt the economy... but we will see.
 

Actually, there is a penalty.  REPAIRS and starting back at your base station.

In Jumpgate classic, you lost all your missles and equipment to some extent.  Then you would have to travel all over the galaxy to find them again, unless you had spare parts stashed.  It was a pain.

Dang, I had high hopes for this game... Hoping there would be depth in the combat. Die, respawn, back in the fight in 15 seconds.... die, respawn, back in the fight in 15 seconds...kill someone, they are back in 15 seconds... ill stick with Quake or counter strike with no Monthly Payment and play a game with depth like eve.... dang, I just want eve with twitch based combat...

Fantastic, one less to worry about

Originally posted by Rydeson

Originally posted by Boosthungry

HAHAHA I just wanna say I jumped on these forums to see what the latest pvp talk about this game was and this was the first thread I found.  Wow the first page is almost all pvp discussion threads.  PVP oriented players being 1% of the market my ass.  I agree with all the flamers on this forum, this game is going to fail.

 

     It amazes me how people can read .. but still are illiterate..    NO ONE said PvP makes up 1% of the market..   I think you need to reread the POST again and this time.. READ all the words and put them together..    There are over 20 million people estimated playing MMO's worldwide..and how many are subscribers to PvP (item loss) games?   lmaooooooo   NEXT..

 

Dun-Duh-Duh.  You learn to read ashat.  I said PvP oriented players not just PvP.  Anyone who simply likes to PvP in that type of casual style is not PvP oriented.  Why don't you just go fight some computer AI somewhere?  You will never get any depth to simple battles.  No sort of conquering of stations, space, resources, ect.  No gain from killing someone except so you can wave your e-peen around on the ranking boards.  You ever played Eve?  Been to Jita with 500 carebears in the system at one time?  How about out in 0.0 with 3000 PvPers in one system?  If any game anywhere can ever get 3000 people to meet on their own accord in one location out of thousands just so they can kill other players and make them lose their ships then that shows that so many more people aren't as pansy as you.  Keep telling yourself that 99% of the market is as much of a puss as you if it makes you feel better but it's not true.

Originally posted by FreedomBlade

Game breaker if you can die and not lose your cargo and ship.

The whole excitement of Eve is the fact that if you die it actually hurts. The only draw back of Eve was the "shitty point and clicky" (c) combat.

This is a real shame as I had high hopes that JGE was going to be EVE with twitch based combat.

Yeah, I was really excited tonight that the servers flaked and since I was in low sec space I just have to hope that I don't lose hundreds of millions of ISK because they are not back up yet and I have to go (meaning when they do come back I am a sitting duck for at least a few minutes not haveing been able to get to a station or high security space.  And what about if the same thing happens in a fight, PvE or PvP? 

High DP sounds all great but there are so many practical reasons it just doesn't work for many games.  EVE is a possible exception as you mention the click and atttack this and click to head in this general direction is mostly inadequate to generate excitment on its own.  With even typical MMO combat, let alone JGE's real time combat, the excitement comes from teh doing not the consequences of doing badly.

People wanting PvP with consequences are probably 1% of the market..

Originally posted by Boosthungry

Originally posted by Rydeson

Originally posted by Boosthungry

HAHAHA I just wanna say I jumped on these forums to see what the latest pvp talk about this game was and this was the first thread I found.  Wow the first page is almost all pvp discussion threads.  PVP oriented players being 1% of the market my ass.  I agree with all the flamers on this forum, this game is going to fail.

 

     It amazes me how people can read .. but still are illiterate..    NO ONE said PvP makes up 1% of the market..   I think you need to reread the POST again and this time.. READ all the words and put them together..    There are over 20 million people estimated playing MMO's worldwide..and how many are subscribers to PvP (item loss) games?   lmaooooooo   NEXT..

 

 

Dun-Duh-Duh.  You learn to read ashat.  I said PvP oriented players not just PvP.  Anyone who simply likes to PvP in that type of casual style is not PvP oriented.  Why don't you just go fight some computer AI somewhere?  You will never get any depth to simple battles.  No sort of conquering of stations, space, resources, ect.  No gain from killing someone except so you can wave your e-peen around on the ranking boards.  You ever played Eve?  Been to Jita with 500 carebears in the system at one time?  How about out in 0.0 with 3000 PvPers in one system?  If any game anywhere can ever get 3000 people to meet on their own accord in one location out of thousands just so they can kill other players and make them lose their ships then that shows that so many more people aren't as pansy as you.  Keep telling yourself that 99% of the market is as much of a puss as you if it makes you feel better but it's not true.

Look at the yellow, dude.  You did misread what was originally stated then came across as a major DB.  What do you expect to get in return??  PvE games dominate the successful mmo's today.  It sounds like you need to go back to Eve or check out DFO.  Actually, you sound like you would fit right in with the DFO crowd, lol.

Z

Originally posted by Zzulu

Eh, you should at least lose your ship if someone blows you up.

 

This was a pretty weak decision from the devs.

No. That is the right decision. Can you imagine everytime someone got killed, he has to grind back his whole ship? Either no one will want to PvP, or you increase the demand for gold sellers.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Zzulu

Eh, you should at least lose your ship if someone blows you up.

 

This was a pretty weak decision from the devs.

 

No. That is the right decision. Can you imagine everytime someone got killed, he has to grind back his whole ship? Either no one will want to PvP, or you increase the demand for gold sellers.

Someone has never played EVE I see.  Its not as bad as you think, but it does sure sting sometimes.  That's the challenge and excitement of risk vs reward PVP and I will agree, its not for everyone.

I enjoy it however and its a bit of a shame it won't be in in JGE, but hey, not every game has to be made to my tastes.

I still have EVE.

Originally posted by FreedomBlade

Game breaker if you can die and not lose your cargo and ship.

Agreed.  Taking JGE off hopeful list.

Yes, EVE is brilliant, but it's a game based on utmost caution (or if you wanna blow it into the wind, having a crapload of ISK, heh), so you cannot exactly play it like a true space shooter. 

Yet, I would not want JGE to be a deathfest, so some sort of penalty that stings a bit would still be nice. 

Originally posted by nariusseldon

No. That is the right decision. Can you imagine everytime someone got killed, he has to grind back his whole ship?

And there marks an area where there is a distinct difference between types of players. The majority of MMO gamers would be in the situation you describe. There is another group, unfortunately a small one, that doesn't take equipment to battle unless he has a backup set ready so that he can jump into it and right back into battle. Bascially : Preparation. The former feels they shouldn't have to and won't do it, and the latter feels it's a common sense convenience.

Two very distinct playstyles. For most MMO gamers, preparing for loss sucks, and loss itself sucks. There's not a whole lot of fun in either for them.  Leaving out loss of ship seems like a great way to appeal to a much broader range of gamers.

If players want a MMO with extreme consequences like complete ship loss upon death then they should play EVE. For all the other players who do not want ship loss at death, there is JGE. Should be a no brainer.
Now, to be realistic, in todays world we have this thing called INSURANCE. When you drive a car,boat,plane, etc and you have an accident and you loose your transportation, your insurance company pays you for the cost of your lost transportation thus allowing you to replace your lost items. It stands to reason that in the future there would be something similar. Now im not saying that there will be insurance in JGE but the concept that having your ship totally destroyed and not replaced is pretty silly. Why not just ask for perma-death as well. I see no difference. If you are destroyed in space and lose your ship why do people think that they would survive the ordeal? Because of a stupid escape pod? Hell, if I was attacking someone in space and I destroy their ship and the next thing I see is the pilot trying to escape in a small pod, I would definately destroy that pod as well. Perma-Death! If you want to clone yourself and keep a clone copy in a station as a Perma-Death safeguard then I see no reason why people wont also have ship insurance as well.

So, either play the game that JGE is meant to be or continue to play EVE, because I honestly dont think that they will revamp the basic platform of the game just because some people want's it to be similar to EVE. If you want a game similar to EVE than play EVE.