I truely hope Jumpgate Evo does not turn out to be another cookie-cut run of the mill level based MMO!

meaning, must attain level x to gain y ship or skill! if this game turns out to be just that, i can tell you it will fail, dont get me wrong ppl will buy it as there are always hardcore fanbois, however in terms of large sub base to generate decent revenue it will fail, no one wants to grind, the whole level based cookie-cut crap is getting old!

Sci-Fi space games should bring something new and stay away from the run of the mill level based junk factory!

If you could fly the best ships from day 1, there wouldn't be much to call it a MMO.... that'd be more of a FPS type of game with no progression.

Every MMORPG is a "level" based game, even Eve. Eve's is based on time spent  learning skills, but it still equates to "levels". New pilots in eve can't fly battlecruisers on day 1.

Originally posted by eric_w66

If you could fly the best ships from day 1, there wouldn't be much to call it a MMO.... that'd be more of a FPS type of game with no progression.

Every MMORPG is a "level" based game, even Eve. Eve's is based on time spent  learning skills, but it still equates to "levels". New pilots in eve can't fly battlecruisers on day 1.

Or day 30, for that matter.

I retried Jumpgate about 4 months ago.  And yes, it is another treadmill.  Improved graphics won't change that.

In real live the air force dont let you jump into jet on your first day.  You need exp and training.  I cant see what the problem is.

At least in JGC there were many ways to get your exp.  Mining, killing AI, transport missions, scouting etc etc.  Rather than kill x AI ships over and over again.

The alternative to level based is economy based like Privateer, right? I mean that with looting and missions driving the economy, without levels the only thing stopping you from going from your newb starter ship to the top of the line fighter is money.... I can feel the gold sellers salivating from here.

Originally posted by Jetset_Quant

In real live the air force dont let you jump into jet on your first day.  You need exp and training.  I cant see what the problem is.

At least in JGC there were many ways to get your exp.  Mining, killing AI, transport missions, scouting etc etc.  Rather than kill x AI ships over and over again.

 

What a qaint little story.  Unfortunately, in videogame life, it takes only a few hours to learn how to fly your new ship with a joystick.

If you can learn to fly a ship using Ju,pgates physics model in 2 hours you are about 3-6 months faster than most.

It took me two years of playing, (The original Jumpgate game) to finally become a decent combat pilot.

While you do attain levels in order to access different ships and better gear and such. Even at max level I regularly still flow in a light fighter (only required level 9 to get). THey have decided that more levels = more options....but not necessarily better options.

Originally posted by impulsebooks

The alternative to level based is economy based like Privateer, right? I mean that with looting and missions driving the economy, without levels the only thing stopping you from going from your newb starter ship to the top of the line fighter is money.... I can feel the gold sellers salivating from here.

Hell, now that you mention it.. this alone is a major plus for the game.. No gold farm spam! heh

Originally posted by eric_w66

If you could fly the best ships from day 1, there wouldn't be much to call it a MMO.... that'd be more of a FPS type of game with no progression.

Every MMORPG is a "level" based game, even Eve. Eve's is based on time spent  learning skills, but it still equates to "levels". New pilots in eve can't fly battlecruisers on day 1.

A vigorous PvP unrestricted environment could happen, without ganking, without grinding, without all the other nonsense that plagues othergames, but you all lack imagination to do it.  You are all stuck on the old Everquest model and you will never get out of it.

Originally posted by Nerf09

 

Originally posted by eric_w66

If you could fly the best ships from day 1, there wouldn't be much to call it a MMO.... that'd be more of a FPS type of game with no progression.

Every MMORPG is a "level" based game, even Eve. Eve's is based on time spent  learning skills, but it still equates to "levels". New pilots in eve can't fly battlecruisers on day 1.

You all lack imagination.  ALL OF YOU!

 

A vigorous PvP unrestricted environment could happen, without ganking, without grinding, without all the other nonsense that plagues othergames, but you all lack imagination to do it.  You are all stuck on the old Everquest model and you will never get out of it.

And why should we? Treadmill hack-n-slash is FUN.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

 

Originally posted by Nerf09

 

Originally posted by eric_w66

If you could fly the best ships from day 1, there wouldn't be much to call it a MMO.... that'd be more of a FPS type of game with no progression.

Every MMORPG is a "level" based game, even Eve. Eve's is based on time spent  learning skills, but it still equates to "levels". New pilots in eve can't fly battlecruisers on day 1.

You all lack imagination.  ALL OF YOU!

 

A vigorous PvP unrestricted environment could happen, without ganking, without grinding, without all the other nonsense that plagues othergames, but you all lack imagination to do it.  You are all stuck on the old Everquest model and you will never get out of it.

 

And why should we? Treadmill hack-n-slash is FUN.

I hope your being sarcastic.

Well, I will give Jumpgate one thing about mine-grinding, mining was actually kind of fun and challenging in Jumpgate.  Back in the day, I even bought 3D (flashing LED) glasses and mined in jumpgate in 3D.   Other then the UI giving me a headache cause it was 2 inches in front of my face and made me go crosseyed to look at it, I liked it.

But I still very much prefer the SWG setup where you put a thumper in the ground and it automatically mines resources for you.

mm mining drones were always one of the things that were asked for...

Yeah, you have to attain certain levels for certain ships, but the biggest baddest ships weren't always. After you get some flying and fighting skill, I had a lot more fun fighting eels in a clone than an HF. Jumpgate had a lot going for it, despite the poor graphics. I'm not sure exactly what happened to it though.

Originally posted by Nerf09

 

Originally posted by eric_w66

If you could fly the best ships from day 1, there wouldn't be much to call it a MMO.... that'd be more of a FPS type of game with no progression.

Every MMORPG is a "level" based game, even Eve. Eve's is based on time spent  learning skills, but it still equates to "levels". New pilots in eve can't fly battlecruisers on day 1.

You all lack imagination.  ALL OF YOU!

 

A vigorous PvP unrestricted environment could happen, without ganking, without grinding, without all the other nonsense that plagues othergames, but you all lack imagination to do it.  You are all stuck on the old Everquest model and you will never get out of it.

What you describe has already been done. It was called Planetside. I don't want JGE to become that. I want it to be a game where you earn things and feel a sense of accomplishment, not a game where you log in, pick out whatever you want to fly, get blown up, and shrug and walk away. The driving force behind MMO's is the sense of accomplishment and fear of losing that accomplishment. Without an emotional investment, there's no excitement. No fun. And don't bother singing the merits of beating other players; only insecure people need that kind of stimulation.

Thing with Jumpgate and a few of you have mentioned this already, is that even though its leveling you don't automatically have this amazing new spell or ability that makes you superior to every other player below you. 

Jumpgate lets you access different ships and equipment when you rise in levels.  However you still need the cash to buy them and secondly you need to learn how to fly them.  Its not as simple as 'oh I have fireball now'...push number 1.. Burn...

The game is real time and zero G.  So even if you grind to a higher level a player with better flying skills will pwn you every other day of the week, so skills is everything...

Originally posted by chryses

Thing with Jumpgate and a few of you have mentioned this already, is that even though its leveling you don't automatically have this amazing new spell or ability that makes you superior to every other player below you. 

Jumpgate lets you access different ships and equipment when you rise in levels.  However you still need the cash to buy them and secondly you need to learn how to fly them.  Its not as simple as 'oh I have fireball now'...push number 1.. Burn...

The game is real time and zero G.  So even if you grind to a higher level a player with better flying skills will pwn you every other day of the week, so skills is everything...

This sounds bad. I hate to get pwned by 12 years old with better reflexes.

Originally posted by Nerf09

I retried Jumpgate about 4 months ago.  And yes, it is another treadmill.  Improved graphics won't change that.

It is? that is bad news

Originally posted by chryses

Thing with Jumpgate and a few of you have mentioned this already, is that even though its leveling you don't automatically have this amazing new spell or ability that makes you superior to every other player below you. 

Jumpgate lets you access different ships and equipment when you rise in levels.  However you still need the cash to buy them and secondly you need to learn how to fly them.  Its not as simple as 'oh I have fireball now'...push number 1.. Burn...

The game is real time and zero G.  So even if you grind to a higher level a player with better flying skills will pwn you every other day of the week, so skills is everything...

ah that sounds good

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Originally posted by Nerf09

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Originally posted by eric_w66

If you could fly the best ships from day 1, there wouldn't be much to call it a MMO.... that'd be more of a FPS type of game with no progression.
Every MMORPG is a "level" based game, even Eve. Eve's is based on time spent learning skills, but it still equates to "levels". New pilots in eve can't fly battlecruisers on day 1.

---

You all lack imagination. ALL OF YOU!
A vigorous PvP unrestricted environment could happen, without ganking, without grinding, without all the other nonsense that plagues othergames, but you all lack imagination to do it. You are all stuck on the old Everquest model and you will never get out of it.

---

Then please enlighten us and ALL the developers in the MMO market. What should they do?

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Originally posted by nariusseldon

---

Originally posted by chryses

Thing with Jumpgate and a few of you have mentioned this already, is that even though its leveling you don't automatically have this amazing new spell or ability that makes you superior to every other player below you.
Jumpgate lets you access different ships and equipment when you rise in levels. However you still need the cash to buy them and secondly you need to learn how to fly them. Its not as simple as 'oh I have fireball now'...push number 1.. Burn...
The game is real time and zero G. So even if you grind to a higher level a player with better flying skills will pwn you every other day of the week, so skills is everything...

---

This sounds bad. I hate to get pwned by 12 years old with better reflexes.

---

LOL, Well that depends. If you've been playign JG for months and the kid just started. Chances are you would kill them.

I'd recommend downloading the client from Support Page on JOSSH.
BUT THIS IS NOT Jumpgate Evolution, it is the original game released in 2001, Jumpgate: The Reconstruction Initiative.

That way you can try out the physics in the sim and maybe decide to try out the 10-day trial.

Originally posted by VideoJockey

 

Originally posted by Nerf09

 

Originally posted by eric_w66

If you could fly the best ships from day 1, there wouldn't be much to call it a MMO.... that'd be more of a FPS type of game with no progression.

Every MMORPG is a "level" based game, even Eve. Eve's is based on time spent  learning skills, but it still equates to "levels". New pilots in eve can't fly battlecruisers on day 1.

You all lack imagination.  ALL OF YOU!

 

A vigorous PvP unrestricted environment could happen, without ganking, without grinding, without all the other nonsense that plagues othergames, but you all lack imagination to do it.  You are all stuck on the old Everquest model and you will never get out of it.

 

What you describe has already been done. It was called Planetside. I don't want JGE to become that. I want it to be a game where you earn things and feel a sense of accomplishment, not a game where you log in, pick out whatever you want to fly, get blown up, and shrug and walk away. The driving force behind MMO's is the sense of accomplishment and fear of losing that accomplishment. Without an emotional investment, there's no excitement. No fun. And don't bother singing the merits of beating other players; only insecure people need that kind of stimulation.

 

Planetside could have had player investment in character, defense, economy, terrain.  It would have taken a larger world,  It could have been done in Planetside. 

It can be done in WWIIONLINE.  It certainly would be a different flavor but it can be done.

FPS can be expanded to be more then just FPS. 

The Total War series successfully merged RTS with 4X.  They did it.  They have imagination and vision.

Originally posted by Mrxknown

 

---

---

 

Then please enlighten us and ALL the developers in the MMO market. What should they do?

 

---

-No Insurance for your ship

-Make it so it takes about a half an hour of manually mining to get a good fighter, a couple hours for a capital ship, about a day for heavy starbases.

-Allow players to hire NPC automatic miners, or some sort of mining structure, a risky investment.

-No PvP zones, nothing is invulnerable, everything is destructable, no instancing, full looting.

-fuel costs fuel that was actually mined, missles that were actually produced  by players, and equipment wear out.

-All Player made equipment like in SWG, no computer made equipment.

-Player structures where players store items, or build factories.

Now each faction can war against another, each faction providing mutual defense for each other.  Since it doesn't take forever to grind for your gear players will have more time to fight each other and it won't be such a big deal if they lose equipment.

In every game I played, all of the reballancing rules, all the PvP zones, all the invulnerabilities, nerfings and buffings and buffings and nerfings boil down to one thing; it takes forever to grind for your gear.

With the exception of WWIIONLINE and PLANETSIDE every game on the list to the left follows the same old worn out formula:  heavy grinding, no risk.  No risk because there is heavy grinding, heavy grinding because there is no risk, both principles feed back on each other.

Originally posted by VideoJockey

 

Originally posted by Nerf09

 

Originally posted by eric_w66

If you could fly the best ships from day 1, there wouldn't be much to call it a MMO.... that'd be more of a FPS type of game with no progression.

Every MMORPG is a "level" based game, even Eve. Eve's is based on time spent  learning skills, but it still equates to "levels". New pilots in eve can't fly battlecruisers on day 1.

You all lack imagination.  ALL OF YOU!

 

A vigorous PvP unrestricted environment could happen, without ganking, without grinding, without all the other nonsense that plagues othergames, but you all lack imagination to do it.  You are all stuck on the old Everquest model and you will never get out of it.

 

What you describe has already been done. It was called Planetside. I don't want JGE to become that. I want it to be a game where you earn things and feel a sense of accomplishment, not a game where you log in, pick out whatever you want to fly, get blown up, and shrug and walk away. The driving force behind MMO's is the sense of accomplishment and fear of losing that accomplishment. Without an emotional investment, there's no excitement. No fun. And don't bother singing the merits of beating other players; only insecure people need that kind of stimulation.

 

Planetside for me was perfect. It takes Battlefield , makes it bigger, more diversity and toss it into a World.

Obviously you are not much of a FPS fan and thats fine, but the great thing i loved about planetside was it was a WAR. A World with a set of rules and how things work and you can do w/e you want abiding by these loose rules. What i enjoyed the most was you have a large group of friends and make assaults ect. And the fights where always different due to how it started where it is what people had ect. Keep in mind it wasnt a RPG it was a MMOFPS with RPG elements. You where a soldier not a HERO.

I don't really get what you're all arguing about. JG and JGE will both be skill based -you get better by actually being better at controling your ship, outmaneuvering your opponent, aiming etc..

There are however levels in the game, but they serve more for there to be some kind progress in what you're doing.The levels don't actually grant you any extra powers, only, in the start, access to better equipment, after that it's mostly just different styles of battle e.g. medium -heavy fighters, but not exactly better -you get better by training.

Originally posted by GoBBels

I don't really get what you're all arguing about. JG and JGE will both be skill based -you get better by actually being better at controling your ship, outmaneuvering your opponent, aiming etc..

 

To what end?

There are however levels in the game, but they serve more for there to be some kind progress in what you're doing.The levels don't actually grant you any extra powers, only, in the start, access to better equipment, after that it's mostly just different styles of battle e.g. medium -heavy fighters, but not exactly better -you get better by training.

Ehh, to the definitive end...?   In JGC you only got "better" equipment till level 20 or so, there on it was just more options regarding equipment and ships... And it'l be somewhat the same in JGE.

And even though it is "better" equipment/ships above level ~20, some sometimes still choose to use the early ships, because they perhaps have an edge in mass that the later ships lack...