Originally posted by Elesthor

Originally posted by freejackmack

Originally posted by Elesthor

Originally posted by Rydeson

     In case you haven't been told or know..  People wanting PvP with consequences are probably 1% of the market.. Why on hell's Earth would you want to design a game that targets that small percentage?  If JGE is anything like Eve without the PvP penalty, I wouldn't be surprised to see 33%, if not more, of Eve's server population drop like a prom dress..  That is one drawing point games like WoW have in concerns of PvP..  ONLY rewards are possible for PvP, with NO penalty..

     If I spent the better 1/2 of the hour mining raw materials ONLY to lose it to a pair of snot nosed teenages that like to gang up and pirate weaker ships.. NO thanks..

 

Tell that to all the people who play and love EVE. And its not 1%!

Losing your ship helps the game in many ways including a economy system and a market that actually works, makes PvP Important and makes one think twice before he does something like PKing , creates community as youll need to have friends to protect you and be part of a guild that can help you make a new ship, and many more.

 If we were talking about a game with online components It would have been nice. But we are talking about an MMO here and in MMOs there are more things than just combat.

I surely dont want WoW PvP in space!

 

I surely don't want Eve's pvp where no one really battles and if they do they are not doing it for long because it taxes the wallet and is tough to refit in a short time so you can have some more fun.

Not to many people think the persuite of money is the most fun you can have in an mmo.

 

Its not the pursuit of money the only goal in the game.

I find world domination more interesting :P

Basically each player can set his own goals.

The thing is that in EVE every action is followed by some consequences and that makes the game more immersive and makes a player driven game that after 6 years from its original release is increasing in numbers every day.

Im afraid that JGE will feel like the Battlegrounds in WoW.... pointless. Fun at first... but pointless in the long run.

Complete loss does not have to be the consequence that makes the game immersing. There is some appeal in working to build an empire. I just think there is more than one way to make it work and I like the way that offers more fun combat action.

It's about having fun while you build up your character and Eve is low on the fun meter.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Zzulu

Eh, you should at least lose your ship if someone blows you up.

 

This was a pretty weak decision from the devs.

 

No. That is the right decision. Can you imagine everytime someone got killed, he has to grind back his whole ship? Either no one will want to PvP, or you increase the demand for gold sellers.

 

Someone has never played EVE I see.  Its not as bad as you think, but it does sure sting sometimes.  That's the challenge and excitement of risk vs reward PVP and I will agree, its not for everyone.

I enjoy it however and its a bit of a shame it won't be in in JGE, but hey, not every game has to be made to my tastes.

I still have EVE.

 

I've known quite a few people who quit Eve in frustration after losing their ship.

Sure, sure "Don't fight with a ship you can't afford to lose..." blah blah blah. That's poor game design. The game is supposed to be about PvP combat, not blob combat where the outcome is decided before the battle ever begins.  That's what Eve "PvP" is. Gank warfare. Some small percentage like that style. Most don't. Even in Eve (70% of toons never leave Empire space).

Says something doesn't it?

Originally posted by Rydeson

    People wanting PvP with consequences are probably 1% of the market.. Why on hell's Earth would you want to design a game that targets that small percentage?

Since people keep toiting info like that, I'd like to know where you pull out these numbers? If you got a link to some survey, please post it here thanks. 

I'm just curious since in so many games people keep asking some PvP adjustments, perhaps full PvP server, then PvE folks get hurt and starts flipping out how PvP players should't like the PvP - or force PvE players to do any PvP.

And weirdest thing is the people who yell  "No PvP servers!!" when they don't even like PvP at all. It's like they are forcing PvP players to be stuck on PvE server. I don't see what the problem is here.

PvP players go to PvP-servers and PvE can stay on PvE-servers, both sides are happy.

All I can say that the info of around 1% being PvP-players is just utter bullsh*t. I've never been good in any kind of PvP, but even I like the PvP features, since it just makes the game so much more alive.

Good move.

So finally there is a more casual friendly space game.

Originally posted by Elesthor

Tell that to all the people who play and love EVE. And its not 1%!

No, assuming the earlier figure about 20M players was correct it would actually be 1.5% that plays EVE. :)

Originally posted by Rydeson

     In case you haven't been told or know..  People wanting PvP with consequences are probably 1% of the market.. Why on hell's Earth would you want to design a game that targets that small percentage?  If JGE is anything like Eve without the PvP penalty, I wouldn't be surprised to see 33%, if not more, of Eve's server population drop like a prom dress..  That is one drawing point games like WoW have in concerns of PvP..  ONLY rewards are possible for PvP, with NO penalty..

     If I spent the better 1/2 of the hour mining raw materials ONLY to lose it to a pair of snot nosed teenages that like to gang up and pirate weaker ships.. NO thanks..

QFT....

Lets hope we get a decent game and they don't ruin it catering for a minority, who like to bully and ruin game experience.

Originally posted by Mortemia

Originally posted by Rydeson

    People wanting PvP with consequences are probably 1% of the market.. Why on hell's Earth would you want to design a game that targets that small percentage?

 

Since people keep toiting info like that, I'd like to know where you pull out these numbers? If you got a link to some survey, please post it here thanks. 

I'm just curious since in so many games people keep asking some PvP adjustments, perhaps full PvP server, then PvE folks get hurt and starts flipping out how PvP players should't like the PvP - or force PvE players to do any PvP.

And weirdest thing is the people who yell  "No PvP servers!!" when they don't even like PvP at all. It's like they are forcing PvP players to be stuck on PvE server. I don't see what the problem is here.

PvP players go to PvP-servers and PvE can stay on PvE-servers, both sides are happy.

 

All I can say that the info of around 1% being PvP-players is just utter bullsh*t. I've never been good in any kind of PvP, but even I like the PvP features, since it just makes the game so much more alive.

 

 

GO find a Sandbox where you can all auto anhialate yourselves.
 

Some of us like a good game that is fun and has some longevity, PVP is oh so wonderful if you want thrills go play an arena game... people seem to loose view of what MMOs are all about.(PVP is in no way core to an MMO)

PvE and charachter building in a large immersive world is !!!!!

I could care less about punishment for dieing, judging by the 50 x 50 battles, people will be dieing a lot in this game. Anything that gets me back to the action, and facilitates fun, is fine by me.

Try not to apply traditional MMORPG rules to this title, it is simply not the same speed, or type of game play as Wow, and Everquests of today. This is an action title where you are rewarded for LIVING, and not punished for dieing. Skill is needed, not stats. Loosing a foothold in a zone is bad enough.

For all you young-ins, go pick up freelancer, or privater, Wingcommander or X-Wing VS. Tie fighter. You need to brush up on your skills and speed.

Originally posted by FreedomBlade

Game breaker if you can die and not lose your cargo and ship.

The whole excitement of Eve is the fact that if you die it actually hurts. The only draw back of Eve was the "shitty point and clicky" (c) combat.

This is a real shame as I had high hopes that JGE was going to be EVE with twitch based combat.

Yes, the "whole excitement of Eve is the fact that if you die it actually hurts"...Perhaps thats why much of the player base is in High Sec and seldom if ever leaves? ^^ Its hardly "fun" to lose hundreds of millions of ISK worth of mods.  Its hardly "fun" to get taken out by some gank squad, with damn little chance of fighting back. Perhaps since JGE isn't going that route, more people just might take part in the battles? Its an established fact that CareBears out number PvP types. ND is simply playing to a well established demographic.

Originally posted by Wraithone

Originally posted by FreedomBlade

Game breaker if you can die and not lose your cargo and ship.

The whole excitement of Eve is the fact that if you die it actually hurts. The only draw back of Eve was the "shitty point and clicky" (c) combat.

This is a real shame as I had high hopes that JGE was going to be EVE with twitch based combat.

 

Yes, the "whole excitement of Eve is the fact that if you die it actually hurts"...Perhaps thats why much of the player base is in High Sec and seldom if ever leaves? ^^ Its hardly "fun" to lose hundreds of millions of ISK worth of mods.  Its hardly "fun" to get taken out by some gank squad, with damn little chance of fighting back. Perhaps since JGE isn't going that route, more people just might take part in the battles? Its an established fact that CareBears out number PvP types. ND is simply playing to a well established demographic.

Your logic escapes me. Of course it isn't fun to get your ass kicked and lose your stuff.  But the simple fact that this CAN happen if you are stupid or careless increases the intensity of the game.  When you "win" in eve it means something.. if you have any doubt about this go check your adrenaline level when you find yourself in a fight for your life in a ship that you really cant afford to lose.

It annoys me when people say only gankers and griefers want hardcore PvP.. I've never shot at anyone that didn't shoot at me first...so I guess I'm pretty much 100% carebear at heart.  But I love eve and I live in 0.0 there because the game actually remains challenging and FUN AS HELL over the years because there are lots of really talented people trying to kill you all the time.

I'm coming up on 5 years in eve and the game NEVER gets boring... because your human opponents always adapt and innovate,  and CCP gives people the freedom to be the evil, rotten bastards that they are : ) This makes being a good guy and still succeeding rather satisfying.

Personally I've given up on any other game developer having enough balls to emulate CCP and let human nature take its course in a game. For me, combat without consequences will always be pointless, and PvE (no matter how good) will always grow stale after a few months.. because NOTHING is as exciting as knowing that you are going head to head with another living, breathing human being who is doing everything in his power to utterly destroy you.

I'm sure JGE will be an interesting diversion, but that is ALL it will be to those of us that greatly prefer to see what happens when the gloves come off.

And by the way (those of you that actually PLAY eve already know this).... 99 times out of 100 if you get ganked in eve it is because YOU did something stupid.  Doesn't make it hurt any less, but it's true.

Games without realistic risk vs reward are not worth playing.

No consequences for playing poorly is carebear.

Originally posted by Enkindu

Originally posted by Wraithone

Originally posted by FreedomBlade

Game breaker if you can die and not lose your cargo and ship.

The whole excitement of Eve is the fact that if you die it actually hurts. The only draw back of Eve was the "shitty point and clicky" (c) combat.

This is a real shame as I had high hopes that JGE was going to be EVE with twitch based combat.

 

Yes, the "whole excitement of Eve is the fact that if you die it actually hurts"...Perhaps thats why much of the player base is in High Sec and seldom if ever leaves? ^^ Its hardly "fun" to lose hundreds of millions of ISK worth of mods.  Its hardly "fun" to get taken out by some gank squad, with damn little chance of fighting back. Perhaps since JGE isn't going that route, more people just might take part in the battles? Its an established fact that CareBears out number PvP types. ND is simply playing to a well established demographic.

Your logic escapes me. Of course it isn't fun to get your ass kicked and lose your stuff.  But the simple fact that this CAN happen if you are stupid or careless increases the intensity of the game.  When you "win" in eve it means something.. if you have any doubt about this go check your adrenaline level when you find yourself in a fight for your life in a ship that you really cant afford to lose.

It annoys me when people say only gankers and griefers want hardcore PvP.. I've never shot at anyone that didn't shoot at me first...so I guess I'm pretty much 100% carebear at heart.  But I love eve and I live in 0.0 there because the game actually remains challenging and FUN AS HELL over the years because there are lots of really talented people trying to kill you all the time.

I'm coming up on 5 years in eve and the game NEVER gets boring... because your human opponents always adapt and innovate,  and CCP gives people the freedom to be the evil, rotten bastards that they are : ) This makes being a good guy and still succeeding rather satisfying.

Personally I've given up on any other game developer having enough balls to emulate CCP and let human nature take its course in a game. For me, combat without consequences will always be pointless, and PvE (no matter how good) will always grow stale after a few months.. because NOTHING is as exciting as knowing that you are going head to head with another living, breathing human being who is doing everything in his power to utterly destroy you.

I'm sure JGE will be an interesting diversion, but that is ALL it will be to those of us that greatly prefer to see what happens when the gloves come off.

And by the way (those of you that actually PLAY eve already know this).... 99 times out of 100 if you get ganked in eve it is because YOU did something stupid.  Doesn't make it hurt any less, but it's true.

Coming up on 4 years myself. Never been out of high sec, never will. I'm there to collect ships, run missions and mine a bit.  I have ZERO interest in Eve PvP. CCP has finally started to understand just what part of their demographics are paying most of their bills. Its NOT the PvP crowd.  2/3's or more of the player base seldom if ever leaves high sec.  Thats why they are starting to focus on missions and mission arcs. By the way, you should know this as well as any one. Don't fly what you can't afford to lose.  Thats as true in PvE as PvP.  One only has to look at the evolution of Concord to know that CCP knows what is and isn't good for their business model.

Not trying to be unpleasant man, but playing eve and never leaving high security space is a bit like going to yosemite national park and watching HBO in your hotel room.

Originally posted by Enkindu

Not trying to be unpleasant man, but playing eve and never leaving high security space is a bit like going to yosemite national park and watching HBO in your hotel room.

Lots of people stay in high sec. To each their own...<shrug>.

Originally posted by FreedomBlade

Game breaker if you can die and not lose your cargo and ship.

The whole excitement of Eve is the fact that if you die it actually hurts. The only draw back of Eve was the "shitty point and clicky" (c) combat.

This is a real shame as I had high hopes that JGE was going to be EVE with twitch based combat.

Crap I thought this was the Jumpgate Evolution forum.  I didn't realize it had turned into the EvE 2 forums.

My bad.

Originally posted by Dameonk

Originally posted by FreedomBlade

Game breaker if you can die and not lose your cargo and ship.

The whole excitement of Eve is the fact that if you die it actually hurts. The only draw back of Eve was the "shitty point and clicky" (c) combat.

This is a real shame as I had high hopes that JGE was going to be EVE with twitch based combat.

Crap I thought this was the Jumpgate Evolution forum.  I didn't realize it had turned into the EvE 2 forums.

My bad.

You can't avoid the fact that debate and speculation about JGE is going to include discussion about what people do or do not like in the only only other major sci fi MMO out there.

Originally posted by Wraithone

Originally posted by Enkindu

Not trying to be unpleasant man, but playing eve and never leaving high security space is a bit like going to yosemite national park and watching HBO in your hotel room.

 

Lots of people stay in high sec. To each their own...<shrug>.

This is a good reason why JGE should go the casual route. There are a lot of casual sci-fi space fans with no game to go to.

Originally posted by FreedomBlade

Game breaker FOR ME if you can die and not lose your cargo and ship.

The whole excitement FOR ME of Eve is the fact that if you die it actually hurts. The only draw back FOR ME of Eve was the "shitty point and clicky" (c) combat.

This is a real shame FOR ME as I had high hopes that JGE was going to be EVE with twitch based combat.

There you go OP, I edited your original post to reflect what you MEANT to say denoted in RED in case you missed it... you're welcome, don't mention it.

Originally posted by RedwoodSap

Games without realistic risk vs reward are not worth playing FOR ME.

No consequences for playing poorly is carebear FOR ME.

You guys should recheck before you post so you say what you mean before you actually hit that post button. No need to thank me, I'm here to help...

I hope everyone sees the trend of my last few posts and "gets" it... 8)

Phrases like "for me" and "in my opinion" are implied and should be understood by any intelligent reader.

Originally posted by Enkindu

Phrases like "for me" and "in my opinion" are implied and should be understood by any intelligent reader.

Thank you.

The obvious escapes some people.

No item loss?! the guys down at the comic book store arent going to believe this!

Originally posted by FreedomBlade

Game breaker if you can die and not lose your cargo and ship.

The whole excitement of Eve is the fact that if you die it actually hurts. The only draw back of Eve was the "shitty point and clicky" (c) combat.

This is a real shame as I had high hopes that JGE was going to be EVE with twitch based combat.

personally i like the idea of holding onto my possesions in a game that i spent millions of credits on, but that's just me.  Dont really like the fact in eve that if you die you lose your stuff, always made me paraniod to never put any of my good mods in for fear of some douchebag gangraping me whil i am trying to jump to a base...guess i am just a carebear when it comes to mmo's and feel that PVP should stick to FPS games.

Originally posted by Katilla

Originally posted by FreedomBlade

Game breaker if you can die and not lose your cargo and ship.

The whole excitement of Eve is the fact that if you die it actually hurts. The only draw back of Eve was the "shitty point and clicky" (c) combat.

This is a real shame as I had high hopes that JGE was going to be EVE with twitch based combat.

 

personally i like the idea of holding onto my possesions in a game that i spent millions of credits on, but that's just me.  Dont really like the fact in eve that if you die you lose your stuff, always made me paraniod to never put any of my good mods in for fear of some douchebag gangraping me whil i am trying to jump to a base...guess i am just a carebear when it comes to mmo's and feel that PVP should stick to FPS games.

My thoughts exactly. Harsh death penalities lead to fewer and fewer people willing to take risks(or stay in a game, if something like high sec in Eve isn't an option).  But the gankers hope springs eternal that some Dev's still haven't learned that lesson. Eventually, they will learn that the "harsh penality" equals "excitement" crowd is far out numbered by us CareBears, who look for a game we can enjoy, rather than having to look over our shoulders every second.