Originally posted by taxguy

firefly notes," I cant believe that people want to water games just for the sake of avoiding danger in a game that about interaction with the community"

Response: Believe it! Again, I don't think that most players are totally against PVP. Heck I participated in it at WOW, however, that was a controlled environment with surprisingly very little ganking.. In EVE and possibly here, ganking is the norm because most PVP players are COWARDS/

 

Yes, let me call them what they are. I was a warlock in WOW ,which is a strong PVP class. RARELY has anyone taken up my challenge . However, they they can get three on me or attack me when engaged in RVR, they would gladly do that.

Another problem with PVP servers is balance. There are always complaints about classes being overpowered,which results in nerfing,which I HATE.. If PVP doesn't occur much, there need not be that much worry about overbalanced classes.

I think you're missing the point. This isn't a class based fantasy game. This is a space based MMO with essentially a level playing field. Everyone will have the ability to get ship with x stats and y weapons. Balancing will not be an issue like it is in WoW.

WoW's PvP flaws do not apply in a space set MMO which is why people need to stop comparing the two as if they were brothers.

It's imperative that a space set MMO is controlled by the player, otherwise its just another Freelancer or X3 and it'll stop being played after a few months. If NetDevil want this game to survive they need to take a leaf out of EvE's book.

Oh god, WoW has pathetic PvP.... when they introduced BG's, IMO wow died back then....

Old skool WoW ftw... world PvP ftw...

are you serious? WoW has the worst, most carebear PvP ever. it should be more like EvE.

LOL what?

JGE will be space twitch shooter with a  joystick as viable control method and you compare it and want it to be similar to WoW??

Get a clue !

Originally posted by taxguy

firefly notes," I cant believe that people want to water games just for the sake of avoiding danger in a game that about interaction with the community"

Response: Believe it! Again, I don't think that most players are totally against PVP. Heck I participated in it at WOW, however, that was a controlled environment with surprisingly very little ganking.. In EVE and possibly here, ganking is the norm because most PVP players are COWARDS/

 

Yes, let me call them what they are. I was a warlock in WOW ,which is a strong PVP class. RARELY has anyone taken up my challenge . However, they they can get three on me or attack me when engaged in RVR, they would gladly do that.

Another problem with PVP servers is balance. There are always complaints about classes being overpowered,which results in nerfing,which I HATE.. If PVP doesn't occur much, there need not be that much worry about overbalanced classes.

firstly --- balance is a myth.   unless everyone is the same caliber of player and on the same speed connection; then, there can be no actual balance, only a perceived balance.

i'm not sure what you're referring to about wow.  dueling has to be the lamest thing in the pvp world, which makes the arena just a lame-fest.  so aside from duels, were you sad that you were getting jumped in BGs?  back in the day when the wife had me playing wow, i relished playing a lock and watching folks freak out in bgs.  i took pride in how many folks i could take on at one time.  it was fun, it was challenging.

you have to ask yourself -- if there's three attacking you; then doesn't that mean that no one is attacking a couple of people on your team?  sometimes, it's about the team.  also, you have to expect to be ganged up on if you're playing a (perceived) powerful character class.

more and more of we pvpers are speaking with our wallets.  with the plethora of games on the market (of which, if you include mmos world-wide, wow is a MINOR player compared to some of the uber games of the east), we don't have to put up with the lame pvp which now inundates games from UO, to WoW, to whatever other games feel that care-bear-24/7 is the way to go.

what i don't understand is how you can compare a game with spaceships (please, correct me if i'm wrong and you actually get out of the space ship to do your fighting) to the after-the-fact pvp in a fantasy setting like wow?

oh well, lots of people in the west joined the MMO-craze with the addition of wow to the genre, and i guess some won't ever get it.

I am a fan of consensual pvp flags for JGE, end of. I have no idea if that is the way it will go but I cant help but think for the longevity of the game it will benefit from some form of governing rules for what is or isnt possible for one player to do to another, providing also that there are lots of opt outs for those who want them.

Its true that you cant please all of the people all of the time, but its still worth trying.

This is such a great topic, as there is no right answer to this. I honestly believe there are 2 discreet crowds Non-consensual PVP and consensual PVP, they are each 50% of the market, and they will NEVER agree which is better. We are working on some ideas to try and let the two play types co-exist but its likely the only solution is 2 different server rule sets. We would be stupid to ignore either crowd, even the dev team itself is split on the issue.

Getting GANKED is never fun. I dont think that even the most hardcore PVP fan likes getting ganked.

Having a non consensual PVP is always a flood gate towards ganking and harassing behavior, we all know such ruleset brings.

But on the other hand , consensual PVP defeats the purpose of ELITE/FREELANCER space game and transforms it from sandbox experience into linear WOW like singleplayer multiplay game.

But having servers with PVP and PVE ruleset is a bad idea aswell , because it polarises and separates the communities.

PVP servers end up drawing the l337 crowd , PVE servers end up drawing MMO Mom's

And a normal gamers get caught in the middle of two extremes

If JE follows any kind of WoW model for PvP, I won't play this game. I'm actually not much of a PvPer but I love the PvP aspects of Eve Online. I feel very rewarded in Eve Online because no game developer is holding my hand. I can literally be attacked any time and any place. That kind of rush is unparalleled in any other MMO I've ever played. It simply works for the kind of setting Eve Online takes place in.

It seems to me that since JE is a twitch game, it would also be very PvP oriented. Otherwise, why not just make a modern version of Freelancer, call it something else, and release it as a single player game? The MMO market is DYING for a "no holds barred" twitch game. Eve Online is a testament to this overwhelming desire. I would venture to say that probably 40% of the people who play Eve do so even though they hate not being able to control their own ship. They are patiently waiting for another developer to give them that "go anywhere" feeling in a space game combined with the rich PvP and player run universe that is Eve Online.  This might not be the "biggest" market to tap into (those Eve  players), but it is a start and a good foundation for JE to take off and become very successful.

Anyway, here's hoping that JE doesn't water down the PvP experience. I'm all for giving carebears an area where they can thrive unmolested. Again, Eve Online does this very well with three separate areas: high sec, low sec, 0.0 space. In high sec, a player is largely unmolested. In low sec, a player can be killed before the authorities arrive and thus this is a very popular area for pirates and gankers. 0.0 space is "no holds barred." You are on your own with no protection. I don't see why JE doesn't emulate this approach albeit with their own special modifications.

Please don't consider a WoW system. PvP combat in space should not be confined to arenas or special areas. It should be an integral part of the game and a major part of ones life (even if that only means actively avoiding it) and a reality of living day-to-day out in the wild frontier of space. Honestly, if JE doesn't get this right (along with crafting/economy), I'm sticking with Eve until a developer can successfully duplicate that model with twitch movement/combat. Yeah, I know, I'm Eve biased.

I am myself for 3 zone type system

safe zone , policed zone (but still dangerous)  , and no holds bar zone

And for difference to EVE , death in PVP doesnt have to be that serious and costly.

The problem JGE would face if it would go the way of PVE server  - is that the whole trading and mining metagame would be rendered useless. Since it would pose no treat to mine and trade in dangerous sectors - rendering this gameplay to boring grind

I see many of you aren't very educated on the initial PvP of WoW, or the potential it had.

I already posted on this, you can read it a page back.  Its quite detailed.  I'll sum it quickly:

WoW - BG @ Arena +more and larger zones dedicated to meaningful PvP combat = Gud

Honestly I don't see what the big issue is all about.

All sources agree that PvErs are most numerous players, followed by people who like to mix PvP and PvE and ardent PvPers being the smallest group.

Designing a niche game to placate one group is a bad idea from business perspective as it puts all of the eggs in the same basket. It is more reasonable to widen the appeal to ensure the widest possible player base, that is simple consumerism.

Personally I think having separate PvE and PvP servers is the best idea. Mixing PvP and PvE is usually a recipe for a disaster as it causes players to become unhappy by forcing PvPers to PvE and PvErs to PvP.

We will see how it goes, from what I read the developers seem to have adopted a pragamtic busienss approach over the "vision" and I find that refreshing. If anything the sinking wrecks of Vanguard and Pirates of the Burning Sea thought me to shudder at the word "vision".

PS

As much as people like to slam WoW PvP (and I will be the first to admit it is flawed etc.) its PvP servers are alive and well with FFA concept. Probably more people does PvP in WoW then all other games combined, including self proclaimed PvP heavens. Obviously Blizzard did something right.

Please please please, nobody listen the the OP. He's clearly off his face on LSD. Poor guy...