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Jumpgate Evolution Previews: First Look Preview
Sean "Pasanda" Cullinan has had a chance to play NetDevil's Jumpgate Evolution and today he shares his impressions of the upcoming space flight MMORPG.
By Sean Cullinan on April 29, 2009
From my somewhat limited experience in JGE, it seems that the space environments you can fly around and navigate to are essentially the exciting parts of each planet system; when you jump into any system, you are transported to the part that has the stations, anomalies, asteroids and all the other ships in it. When you want to move to another system, you do so via jumpgates (as the name suggests). I tried flying away from the general area using just normal engines, but I turned around when I realised that wasn’t the way to get about. You see, all space games have a really big hurdle to overcome and that is this: space is huge. Getting about space in any realistically simulated way would be mind-numbingly boring. Hence, game developers have condensed the experience into more palatable chunks using various virtual techniques, like warping, and Jumpgate Evolution is no different – It was even named after one of those techniques!
While in each system, you have a normal thrust engine and a boost engine. The boost engine I used would take me from one point of interest to another in real time and my ship covered about 30,000 clicks in about 30 seconds. Once I was in the vicinity, I disengage the booster and flew around using normal engine speed which, for me, had a top speed of around 200 clicks per second. This system makes the pace of general travel around systems just about perfect.
The UI incorporates the usual, but nicely implemented navigation panel, which shows a summary of points of interest against different categories, such as enemy ships, navigation points and stations. You can filter the list by expanding or collapsing each category. There is also the very familiar radar tracking windows, which I am pretty sure we first saw in Acornsoft's Elite, back in 1984 - although this one has a lot more detail to view. There is also a chat window and a mission window. Many of the various UI elements may be moved and resized to suit. All of these UI elements should be pretty familiar to anyone who has played MMOs, or indeed many other game formats.
In all, the flight experience is exceptionally well implemented. After about an hour, I felt I was flying well. I was able to Newtonian strafe silently across the opening of some enemy station - although I still found myself struggling to regain control whenever I became over-confident. I enjoyed boosting around the systems, checking out whatever was going on. Flying in JGE is also a potentially peaceful experience. In the future, I can see myself playing this game just to chill out and relax. I played at 1920x1200 video resolution, and I could make out the tiniest flecks of laser fire at seemingly enormous distances, and then sail over to them. I used the word “sail” without thinking, but that is what it feels like; flying in JGE feels a like sailing across a big 3D ocean.
Combat
Don’t get me wrong though, this is not for the faint of heart (unless all you want to do is sail of course). One of the other big differences between JGE and other space MMOs, and indeed most MMOs, is that it has a twitch-based combat system at its heart. This is no small feat when you’re delivering a strong performance for several thousand people across a network that you do not control and the use of which contends with the other hundreds of millions of folk on the Internet. In the past, that fact alone has been the bane of many MMO developers and has led ultimately to the dreaded ‘Global Cooldown’ in several MMO’s. Well, JGE has no Global Cooldown! It is quite brave of NetDevil to contemplate a twitch-based combat MMO. I cannot, of course, comment on how well this will pan out in a full blown and fully populated game environment, but network performance, thus far, has been perfect.
I think I’m a pretty good gamer, with reflexes for which most 40-something gamers would kill, but I was left aghast by the Artificial Intelligence (AI) of some of these ships. If you’re like me, you will have flown many dog-fights trying to get that edge on your opponent, knowing full well that your turning circles are pretty similar. The NPC’s AI in JGE gave me at least as good a run for my money as any real human in PvP. I probably lost as many fights as I won, and in some of those fights, I have no idea what happened – I’d be coasting, taking out ship after ship, and then suddenly my shield would drop like a stone, and the next thing I knew I’d be back at the station, opening up my wallet to the repairman once more. It is failures executed like this that make me want to fly out there again and improve - to find out why I died and how I was beaten – to determine what I can do to win next time. There is no mistaking that the combat in JGE is where NetDevil has spent most of their time, resources and effort. It is a super slick experience that feels ready for the shelves. I like the low impact loss-management that JGE employs when you’ve lost a fight; it feels more like a game that is here for my enjoyment rather than a grind or chore to rebuild in order to fly again.
PvP
I had a small chance to try out PvP, and it was pretty stunning. The action was very fast and furious, accurate and tactical. I found myself physically straining as I willed my tiny ship to turn around an obstacle just a little bit faster, and get that missile targeting reticule to lock just a tiny bit quicker. I was reminded of watching my mum playing Mario-cart in the 90’s - almost off my chair with the effort. It’s been years since I’ve reacted to a game in this way.
Stations
When you’re not fighting or flying around, you’ll be docked at a station. The station UI is pretty slick and self explanatory. While both in flight and docked, the bottom/centre of the screen gives you the main game options, but when you’re docked, you can look at ship hangars and equipment, or browse the markets. In JGE, your inventory is not tied to the station at which you dropped-off the equipment (thanks NetDevil). Stations are where you will meet with mission NPCs and repair any damage that occurred on your last foray.
;)
Interesting Quest Dynamics
So there I am, docked at my station after having found this weird glowing giant red jumpgate-type thing in space, when I noticed I had received an in-game email. “How sweet,” I thought, “a missive of thanks from NetDevil for playing the game.” However, upon reading the message, I was met with an extremely threatening and somewhat disturbing letter from some dude I’d never heard of before, who’d learned of my discovery of the aforementioned red anomaly and started to threaten me. I found this use of in-game email from an NPC directly to me to be an extraordinarily simple, but yet very astute and effective idea for advancing the plot. From that point forward, I paid attention to the mission text and wanted to go back and re-start the game. I found the plot and main story arc very compelling. I wanted to get out there and find out what was really going on.
Graphics
The last element I want to touch upon is the graphics. Those who have read my articles in the past will know that I love my graphics. Not just design, but also using technology to render a universe that is beautiful, appropriately realistic, and overall immersive. Immersion is my holy grail. When I fire up a game I want to be in there. When I stop playing, I want to wonder where all the time has gone. Nothing helps to immerse me more than graphics do. My expectations are pretty high. Put simply, JGE is beautiful. I’d seen several videos which, in hindsight, I don’t think did the game’s graphics justice. I think what I was most impressed with is the performance of the engine and the implementation of the sense of motion. I have no idea what sort of Frames Per Second (FPS) I was getting, but playing was a superlatively smooth experience. I heard that NetDevil hoped to make JGE work on older machines, and I can well believe it. I am playing on computer which was built last spring - it is a year old and was not cutting edge then. There were no settings that I could have turned up any higher, including full anti-aliasing, and the game play stayed ultra-smooth throughout.
I noted a few graphical glitches that still need to be ironed out, but nothing that spoiled my overall experience - and I think I need to be realistic here. The game is not even in closed beta yet, and I have seen MMOs on-the-shelves with more bugs than JGE has in Friends & Family testing phase.
Comparisons
I started writing this preview with the intention of avoiding too many Eve Online comparisons, but as the last week has progressed, I have realized again and again how much this game reminds me of another great MMO, albeit one in a different genre – Dark Age of Camelot. I know what you’re thinking, “goblins and dragons over spaceship and lasers,” but stay with me. There are not many MMOs that deliver a three-sided conflict - and three opponents is a vastly different dynamic than just two. That alone is enough to identify that JGE and DaoC share a similar pedigree. DaoC did a lot of things well, but what it really did best was combat mechanics. Never has a game incited more players to become involved in the ‘min-maxing’ and templating side-game than has DaoC - every last point of statistic x counted, and tactics, guile and combat strategy counted too. In this, I think JGE will be very similar. When I look at the equipment and guns on the load-out of my ship, I am reminded even more so than with other space MMOs how directly related they are to the suit of armour and sword on my Guardian. Although subtle, there is a third aspect in which JGE feels very similar to DaoC. This is the means of switching between mouse-cursor and ship movement modes by using the centre wheel, similar to the way DAOC implemented avatar navigation. I found myself naturally laying out the equivalent functions, like target nearest and next enemy, and fire/attack, in the same way on my keyboard as I had when I played DAOC. Although the similarities exist, JGE is a unique experience of its own. NetDevil has tipped their hat to some of the best ideas in the industry.
Summary
Jumpgate Evolution is a space combat game in all its glory. If I had to level any criticism, it would be in this one area: in my opinion, and without having had the chance to try out the other game dynamics to any real extent, you’ll need to be a fan of space flight and combat to get the most out of Jumpgate Evolution. The game does plenty of other stuff for sure; mining seemed like it could be fun, manufacturing also, and as you can see I really enjoyed the quests and story arc. But the nub of this game - the real heart that will keep yours beating throughout the entire experience - is space flight and combat.
I came to JGE not expecting to enjoy it immensely. The videos I’ve seen gave the impression that it might have been too arcade-like for my taste. It took me thirty minutes of hands-on to work out that this was far from the truth. JGE is a serious space combat game that is seriously fun. If, like me, you’ve been waiting for a space game wherein you can zoom around the galaxy and participate in intense dog fights against your deadly nemesis, then Jumpgate Evolution is for you.
Big ‘Thanks’ to Wolphard and Elovia of the Flaming Pie Squad for their support in putting this article together.
A nice review, but did you play in Battlespace? If so what effect do you think it will have on open world play?
GRAAAAGGGH reading this has just made me want to play it more!
Like the Freelancer reference and if it plays anything like Freelancer i will give it a try for sure.
None, or at least not much, as the real goals action and rewards will be in open space. As open world PvP is still there, battle space is akin to the old simulator from classic.
Hi all and thanks for the kind words.
I haven't played Battlespace, sorry.
Freelancer, on the other hand, was my mainstay for over a year. I have discussed flight dynamics, but i must say that JGE has the potential for far greater complexity. You can (and i did) fly in simple WASD mode if you wish and do very well. Or you can go to the other extreme and map vertical strafing, roll, pitch, yaw etc if you so choose.
There are obvious comparisons between the two. However, i would say that, as a real general comment, Freelancer felt somewhat more arcadey and much smaller than JGE.
Cheers,
Pas.
Screw freelancer (not really), Privateer is where its at! (Really)
:)
Never played the first one, but Privateer 2 brought me countless hours of fun!! Thanks for the memory man lol.
How does JGE compare to Black Prophecy? To me JGE is more cartoony like say WoW and Black Prophecy is more realistic like say AoC.
All of this discussion about space combat simulators and no one mentions the greatest series of them all?
Long Live FreeSpace 1&2!
Netdevil has more info out about the game than Reakktor, who just did a media blitz the other day. We know (or there is more info) about Jumpgate's game play systems and mechanics than there is this title. The jump gate dancer engine has been live, and in use since September 25, 2001 (launch date for JG:Classic), the infinity engine, IF it was the same one used in Neocron, is from 2002.
Not that i care about any above. The video and shots shown were quite stunning, and my response was pointed at the graphics, as i know, or can find very little about the REAL mechanics of the game at this time.
The REAL contrast in the two game is system requirements. We have essentially what is a Low teach going up versus a high teach, or low system requirements versus a extremely high requirements game (Judging by that rendering features can pick out from that video, as even the system requirements have not been produced yet). Jumpgate developers have been trying to maintain that low barrier to entry, with very good reason. They are two different schools of thought. If i may, i will say: Its like AOC going up VS. World of Warcraft (EXAMPLE PEOPLE TRY TO KEEP TRACK), not in mechanics, but in development guidelines and tech used.
I think currently, they are both attractive titles, and i think each will do well. However, my eye is still on Jumpgate:E. For a few reasons. First i do not think we will see 50 x 50 x 50 battles in Reakktor's game...Ever. Second, Jumpgate classic was, for its time, quite well received, and quite well done, and the developers have almost 10 years of LIVE knowledge from that title to apply (not that Reakktor has nothing... But i do think this is their first space MMO). This is a refinement of the first, with modern concepts and tech tossed in, Reakktor's game, from just about every angle is an unknown.
Having said all that, you know i will be trying them both.
Similarly i've not played BP.
What i would say, is to basically reinforce my opinion in the preview: I came at JGE with a somewhat negative view, having seen quite a bit of video footage. To me it looked 'arcady' or 'cartoony' if you wish. Actual play changed my opinion quite quickly. It's a lot more of a gritty experience than i had expected, and to my way of thinking, not for those who like to shove coins into slots. I think the arcady-ness perception comes from the majority of existing footage showing the small ship avatar moving around the ui as you fly. It's reminiscent of space games of the 80's and 90's. Slip into first-person and that perception is immediately dashed.
It's hard to explain precisely. It's simply that the game didn't play how it looks like it might. This could be down to the complexity of flight and combat, the adult nature of the avatars and NPC's, or the fact that the ships you shoot down fly dowsed in flames just before they explode.
I'm not sure if that helps at all. I think you just need to get your hands on it to really see what i mean.
Pas.
What I would like to know is if Jumpgate Evolution has tactical aspects of combat such as power/shield management and countermeasures for use against guided missiles.
Does it have programmed squad communication (ala FreeSpace)?
Does it allow for NPC squadmates?
Also, how do different shiptypes match up in combat (Interceptor, bomber, heavy fighter, space superiority, etc)?
The advantage of JGE is the twitch-based combat.
The advantage of EVE Online, come Winter 2009, will be the ability to get out of your ship and walk in stations.
Of the two features, I would prefer to walk in stations. This is because socialising becomes important. After a while, you need a reason to play apart from warring. Living in a ship can feel claustrophobic, which is ironic considering you're living in space.
Exploring or adventure is important, but I don't know what this is like in JGE yet.
Bro..... Jumpgate evolution wiki.
Very nice review. My space days were in SWG which was also twich combat and alot of fun but a bit basic, hopefully JGE has some depth of gameplay .
If you want full epic space effect then there is only 1 way to go! Here is a video of monster triple 24 inch monitor setup, sporting a resolution near 5000x1080.
http://kotaku.com/5064142/a-visit-to-netdevil-hands-on-with-jumpgate-evolution?cpage=1&sort=asc
Conversely, i would imagine that if you asked an astronaut, space travel is one of the most claustrophobic experiences out there. That's why we create stations, so we can exist without the shackles of environmental suits.
@Bigbudder - Hah! Strange you post that. As I speak, my other project is taking form... A triple screen setup; inspired by JGE. I have a thread open on this very subject in my squad forum. I'm getting the tech low-down on how this is achieved, and i'm really excited about it.
Good write-up Pas.
Actually the unit that allows you to span the game across 3 monitors is called the TripleHead2Go by Matrox. Its maximum resolution is 5040x1050 (3x1680x1050) this only available when using widescreens. I can't say for sure but it looks like the demo rig they put together only had screens of a standard aspect ratio, in this case the resolution would have been 3840x1024 (3x1280x1024).
[www.matrox.com]
There is a software application which is free and proven, and uses two ordinary GPU's. Check out the thread on the Squad pages (link in Wolphards post above) for info.
Thanks a lot Pasanda!
This interview really got me excited about this game. I must say I do feel like you felt after watching in-game footage... Glad to hear the opposite. And since our taste seens to be similar I now can feel relieved ;)
No worries Ishkariot. I'm in the same boat: Looking forward to the full game, loads of people to fight, and side with, and a galaxy of systems to explore.
beta?!?!
/checks email.......
$#%@! nothing ....
/sad
Great read, man! I can't wait to play it!
Beau
This looks like Air Rivals, except if it were made by Americans and was Pay to Play. Love it.
Good preview, nice to see you got to experience so much in such a short time.
I wasn't all that interested at first, but this sort of information coming out (take that all you Dev's hiding your game behind ironclad NDA's) is the sort of thing most companies should be doing. Let people see it and play it.
I didn't see a lot of negatives, perhaps its just that good, or perhaps there were some restrictions on what can be said at this time. (not a bad thing, but noticable)
Good review. Love all Elite-type games since I played my Elite on a russian clone of ZX-Spectrum called "Robik" i40.tinypic.com/30cxhqf.jpg
Loved privateer, freelancer too. Seems that JE has more intense combat, but how is the non-combat stuff? Is it a good trader game? Can you go into trading/mining/manufacturing? or are those things just an afterthought?
PS: also a bit worried about all the praises and lack of criticism, either the game is that good or the review is lacking in precision.
As I understand it, Battlespace is based on Jumpgate Classic's instanced PvP system and is supposed to be a simulation rather than a real event, so I would guess it has no effect on open world as it's not real.
I just wanted to say how impressed I was with this review. This guy writes really well and seems to understand exactly what type of information a player wants to know instead of just repeating whatever marketing fluff the devs want reviewers to spew.
Hehehe, two words: Eve Killer :D
LOL! gl
LOL! gl
Kill Eve, nah... but I can see it getting more subs then Eve, because it will appeal to more people.
Like:
Those who hate the point and click interface.
Those who what a more action based game.
I think if it's as easy as clicking a button to switch between the arcade-flight and the newtonian flight, we'll probably see some awesome battles that mix both up quite a bit. Both have their combative advantages, and heck even general flight advantages. But it depends on how quickly they transition between the two. If it's more than a second it probably would be best to stick with whichever offers the best advantages, probably newtonian.
Imagine however if you could do the 180 stuff while in a dog fight, and shoot somebody's who's following you, but then put on damper and watch them fly by while you just rotate while they are trying to adjust their aim and all the while missing shots due to that unpredictable flight behaviour. Well... I expect it could get crazy.
Kill Eve, nah... but I can see it getting more subs then Eve, because it will appeal to more people.
Like:
Those who hate the point and click interface.
Those who what a more action based game.
Don 't forget people who...
Don't like real-time skill training.
Hate losing millions and millions of credits every time they lose a battle.
Don't like in-game currency sales facilitated by the game's developer.
Hate doing the same few boring missions over and over.
Want a game to be more fun than watching grass grow.
Yeah, I think this game will probably see more subs than Eve. It would be pretty hard for JGE or BP not to be better than Eve.
Thanks for the article! So far the game is looking allright, I might even buy it myself.
Nice preview.
It's a paradox, I look forward to release, yet at the same time I think it won't be popular MMO. Twitch combat games have had hard time to succeed on MMO market. Vendetta, JGC, Tabula Rasa(not 100% twitch), Battleground Europe. You name it.
Add the fact, that the game will be (again) only about one thing - flying around in your ship. No ground stuff. So when you get bored with space pew pew, there won't be something different to do. One trick pony.
There's a lot of discussion here about Eve, as anyone would have expected. But they are very different games that happen to have been developed to function in the same virtual-scape of space. For me, comparing the two is a bit like comparing DAOC and WoW: Yes, they are both MMO's that work the fantasy theme and exist in a fantasy land, but I don't think you could push the comparison much further, because - They are both developed to be different games that, by design, are developed to play differently. I think this is important to anyone worried or concerned about how one compares to the other.
I'm sure this won't stop the comparisons, but hopefully it will help some folk to see where, in my personal opinion, JGE isn't trying to go.
Sincere apologies for not being able to answer some of the other questions posed. I can discuss issues around topics already covered in the Preview, but that's about it.
Pas.
Pas, did you get a chance to talk about or epxerience the 'other stuff' in the game? How do you see the economy working? How long are going to be expected to mine to gaim mats to be viable crafters? Is 100% crafting going to be a viable playstyle? Is there other stuff that you saw to do when not running missions?
thx :)
Looks to me that if you choose to use a joy-stick your gonna be sucking in pvp. With free mouse look and lock and fire with mouse and key board this will after first month cost subscribers. Im sure the devs and fanbois will get irretated here but thats how i see this going down. If they loose to many subs there gonna be looking at what happened to Funcom.
Kill Eve, nah... but I can see it getting more subs then Eve, because it will appeal to more people.
Like:
Those who hate the point and click interface.
Those who what a more action based game.
Don 't forget people who...
Don't like real-time skill training.
Hate losing millions and millions of credits every time they lose a battle.
Don't like in-game currency sales facilitated by the game's developer.
Hate doing the same few boring missions over and over.
Want a game to be more fun than watching grass grow.
Yeah, I think this game will probably see more subs than Eve. It would be pretty hard for JGE or BP not to be better than Eve.
Umm... Eve and JGE do not have much in common in terms of gameplay.
Eve Online is a single unit strategy game based in space.
JumpGate is a space simulation game.
I like the comparison to DAoC towards the end of the article. I can see the simularities myself.
This sounds promising.
Don 't forget people who...
Don't like real-time skill training.
Hate losing millions and millions of credits every time they lose a battle.
Don't like in-game currency sales facilitated by the game's developer.
Hate doing the same few boring missions over and over.
Want a game to be more fun than watching grass grow.
Yeah, I think this game will probably see more subs than Eve. It would be pretty hard for JGE or BP not to be better than Eve.
Umm... Eve and JGE do not have much in common in terms of gameplay.
Eve Online is a single unit strategy game based in space.
JumpGate is a space simulation game.
I like the comparison to DAoC towards the end of the article. I can see the simularities myself.
I think y'all reading into this to much... no one said anything about Eve and JGE playing the same... cause we all know they don't.
JGE and Eve both do appeal to the Space Sim crowd... as they are both set in space.
My post was there to state that I think JGE has a chance to get more subs then Eve, cause it will appeal to a larger crowd.
In no way will JGE effect Eve... they are 2 different playstyles, catering different types of people.
Don 't forget people who...
Don't like real-time skill training.
Hate losing millions and millions of credits every time they lose a battle.
Don't like in-game currency sales facilitated by the game's developer.
Hate doing the same few boring missions over and over.
Want a game to be more fun than watching grass grow.
Yeah, I think this game will probably see more subs than Eve. It would be pretty hard for JGE or BP not to be better than Eve.
Umm... Eve and JGE do not have much in common in terms of gameplay.
Eve Online is a single unit strategy game based in space.
JumpGate is a space simulation game.
I like the comparison to DAoC towards the end of the article. I can see the simularities myself.
I think y'all reading into this to much... no one said anything about Eve and JGE playing the same... cause we all know they don't.
JGE and Eve both do appeal to the Space Sim crowd... as they are both set in space.
My post was there to state that I think JGE has a chance to get more subs then Eve, cause it will appeal to a larger crowd.
In no way will JGE effect Eve... they are 2 different playstyles, catering different types of people.
Yeah, they have noting at all in common... except that they are both PvP heavy space based MMOs where you play as a ship rather than as your avatar. Comparing the two games is like comparing Battlefield 1942 to Call of Duty. ;)
Sound fun. I dont want another Eve filled with veteran players camping gates to kill unsuspecting players. So this game is mainly PVE with consentual PVP right ?
Those were good, but theres just something classic about Freelancer, though the real gem i havent seen mentioned yet is the X series. X2 and X3 reunion/terran conflict. Some of the best Space games i have ever played.
I really enjoyed the review. You didn't seem to overstate the positives which is what a lot of reviewers often struggle with. The game sounds really good and I'm definitely interested in the tri-faction wars. There's still a part of me that holds on to Eve online though because of the politics and complex social networking that plays out in that game. I also really enjoy the wars for territory in Eve because it generates constant warfare. I need to do some research on the "point" of PvP in the game. I'm quickly losing interest in the pvp for 'epeen' sake only type MMO's. WoW is very much this way. Give me a reason to pvp beyond gear and items, make the pvp count for something important in the game. That's why Eve still has the best pvp system on the market right now imho. Also, I'm certain that I'll give the game a try but when I hear "twitch" based combat I well....twitch. SWG used twitch based flight in the space combat and anyone who is honest knows that it was just aweful. That whole system broke down to who could circle and strafe the fastest. I also know that game performance is going to have to be top notch because lag in twitch based combat is something that cannot exist.
A few things concern me about the game so far.
The player driven economy, in the form they have it at now, will not work. There is no removal of items from the system, only repair costs, and it won't be long before the market is flooded with gear nobody wants. That is a huge issue I have right now.
I don't like the over-emphasis on the nations, I wish it had a more sandbox, and squad oriented nature, like JGC did. (There will be no multi-faction squads in JGE).
I'm also a bit concerned about the viability of first person/joystick control as it seems that 3rd person and mouse control will have a distinct advantage, which would kill the "sim" part of the "space sim".
Beyond that, I cannot wait for this game to come out.
This review was well written and succeeded in making me much more interested in this game than I was before. Good job!
I would like to see a better economy system as well, with a slow decay on items so that you'll eventually need to replace the items. There's loads of examples of MMOs with broken economies still having a large subscriber base, though (examples include Lord of the Rings Online, World of WarCraft and Warhammer Online), so this shouldn't be a deal breaker if the rest of the game is good.
What makes you think the economy is only about gear?
As someone who spent about 18 months in EVE Online, I am very hopeful for this game.
I do imagine that this and the other Sci-Fi MMOs that are coming out will severely injure EVE if CCP does not take action. They've enjoyed relatively zero competition in their genre for many years. Many players of that game cling to it so hard not because of its own qualities, but because it fills a niche that is otherwise empty - space faring MMORPG. They are foolish if they don't make some serious changes to that game soon...
That being said, it seems that the "arcade fun shootie time" may have been overdeveloped, and the players-are-important sandbox aspect underdone.
EVE is successful because it really hits home on making every player have the potential to be important to the game universe. From the lowliest hauler trying to make a few ISK to the dreaded space pirate, everyone carves out a legacy and story in EVE. This is what it should be remembered for, and its failings departed from (the terrible combat engine and click to fly and skill training system). I think JGE has departed from the bad parts, but, also left behind the good parts, keeping only: "fly around and shoot stuff in space", which matches everything from Galaga to Wing Commander to Star Wars, all of which can be awesome and terrible if viewed through the wrong lens.
So in short, God I'm Glad to be able to get my space-faring on outside of EVE (where I'm a billionaire with no cause and no way to introduce my friends to the game and play with them immediately - since they'd have to train for a year to get to the fun part of the game), but I'm sad that in getting my space-faring on, it looks like the sandbox won't be quite as easy to build in on account of the devs trying to keep it too simple.
I guess we'll see (but I don't think I'll play EVE again). This was an awesome article filled with good information. Thank you.
http://www.judgex.com/
Sounds like you just talked yourself back into playing again there mate.
I think Eve should be remembered for the game that permitted it's own developers to embezzle virtual property and cash, advantage their friends and behave wholly inappropriately for months, and possibly years with practically zero come-back.
...and just to repeat, that's from someone who didn't PvP.
People will eventually carry comparisons to EVE simply because both are sci-fi MMORPGs (don't know about you but first thing I do when searching for a MMO is determining the "when" it is based), allowing you do take any role and explore a huge universe, engage in battles for one of the main factions in the game or just create your own pirate corporation.
Differences I've seen are the control system and the skill system. EVE failed when it started taking too long to develop into the area you wanted to play, and failed epically when even if you want to do only one thing it takes too long to get properly trained for it.
Anyway, I look forward this game. EVE feels like a monopoly, there is no real competition like in the Fantasy MMO P2P or F2P genre. Don't take the differences of the games too deeply, because each game is unique yet they share a same market.
What makes you think the economy is only about gear?
This is supposed to be a player driven, crafter driven economy. In the form they are planning now, it will not work. For a player driven economy to work, they need 3 things. Money injection, item turn over for all items, and money extraction. Currently, JGE has money injection and extraction, but they are missing item turnover. With no item turnover, people will not need to buy new items. If people don't buy new items, crafters won't make items, and so on and so one. It isn't a difficult concept, but ND seem to be oblivious.
This is supposed to be a player driven, crafter driven economy. In the form they are planning now, it will not work. For a player driven economy to work, they need 3 things. Money injection, item turn over for all items, and money extraction. Currently, JGE has money injection and extraction, but they are missing item turnover. With no item turnover, people will not need to buy new items. If people don't buy new items, crafters won't make items, and so on and so one. It isn't a difficult concept, but ND seem to be oblivious.
Yea this is one of the problem I had with WoW... crafting ends up being more about what it can do for you and not anyone else... with some exceptions.
I had a thought, maybe you need those items for building a station, if the station is destoried you have to rebuilt it... which mean you'll still need those items.
I play EVE, but I am looking forward to this game. EVE isnt doing to die because of JGE, CCP has no twitched based concepts on the drawing board.
I do hope that the game is Complex and Player driven.
Looking forward to it a great deal.
Yours in PvP Plasma,
Star¤Dagger
I think you will be disappointed Dagger... knowing you.
-Fenix of The Romulan Star Command
I know my reputation for excellence proceeds me, but I am cautiously optimistic about this MMO. I am also attracted to the idea that the pilots own personal skill at piloting his craft will play a large part.
We shall see...
Yours in Excellence in Gaming Plasma,
Star¤Dagger
I was just reviewing this thread and wanted to say a couple more things.
1) I didn't mean to imply that I thought this game would kill EVE single-handedly. I believe this game belongs to the Senate of 3-5 Sci-Fi games that will be repeatedly stabbing EVE over the next couple of years until it's left bloodied on the floor and deposed.
2) I definitely won't be playing EVE again, and I don't even think it's worth my time to throw down ISK for free game time. The training mechanism is completely incompatible with ever having real life friends join you in-game once you've played for a long time. Most MMOs you can just roll a new toon and play with your friends. In EVE, when you do this, you are hampering your main character's progress. That's just stupid.
Anyway, back to Project Reality BF2 mod :).
http://www.judgex.com
This is supposed to be a player driven, crafter driven economy. In the form they are planning now, it will not work. For a player driven economy to work, they need 3 things. Money injection, item turn over for all items, and money extraction. Currently, JGE has money injection and extraction, but they are missing item turnover. With no item turnover, people will not need to buy new items. If people don't buy new items, crafters won't make items, and so on and so one. It isn't a difficult concept, but ND seem to be oblivious.
Again, What makes you think the economy is only about gear? They had already explained why the choose this route.
Abrahmm is correct.
I have played every major MMO to date, and only two have had impressive, functional, fun to interface with, "playable" economies.
The first of which in recent memory would be Dark Age of Camelot... items expired over time from overuse, the quality of individual items influenced the rarity and price, and the top end items of any given slot (weapon or armor, depending on class and time period) were player-crafted and player spellcrafted items tailored to suit one's template.
The other is EVE Online, where items are actually destroyed by other players or NPCs, ships, with cargo-holds full of items and bays full of ammo, are destroyed, only to be reconstituted by the workings of other players. It gives everyone a function, collecting the pieces, mining, manufacturing, hauling, marketting, etc. This portion of EVE should at least be mimicked in some way as it is the most impressive "economy" in a video game right now... I would even venture that it's worthy of sociological study.
To discard the headway made by CCP in establishing an economy, in favor of "fun pew pew" would be a mistake that would drive away many playertypes. I am certain that some of it will be retained for JGE, but from what I've read, it sounds like items are essentially permanent, ammo is unlimited, and your inventory travels with you (I might not be accurate on that, though).
A massively multiplayer game cannot be sustained with a good combat engine alone... its horizon will be more like that of any given FPS game (3-5 years, and then fading into obscurity, revived only by sequels and expansions along the way). With a fully featured economy, meaningful PVP, a good combat system, good artwork and solid interface for doing in-game business and chat, there's no reason an MMO can't go on well beyond 5 years, healthily.
http://www.judgex.com/
Re the original article: You had a "Comparisons" section yet flat out refused to compare with EVE Online. Only a comparison to EVE Online has meaning to me because I know EVE and I can't judge another space MMORPG without contrasting against it. Lame!