Originally posted by grandpagamer

Originally posted by Kordesh

 If you made that statement previously, then I think this shows pretty well you have a history of rash and ill informed declarations. Anyone who bothered to research the game for more than two seconds would have known this was at the core of the game to begin with. This is what people get for randomly lunging into random mmos and going "OMG THIS IS THE BEST GAME EVAR!  I just pre-ordered and sold all my old stuff 8D!.......whats the game about now?.........WTFOMG BS this game sucks I won't play unless they change it!" 

My preorder was $5. Pretty cheap gameplay even at just the last beta. Im still on the fence myself but want to see more. If i like what i see, i will pick up the game at release, if not i will leave it on the shelf.  I do have a feeling though that after reaching the pvp levels quest are going to dry up, could be wrong though, thats why im sitting on the fence until i get a better look. So far so good, time will tell.

The game has been fun so far. I also enjoy pvp in a limited basis and I have lots of buddies. So repeated gankings are usually not an issue. However, the biggest issue with RvR games like Aion tend to be pop balance. If your side is vastly outnumbered it is very hard to do anything.

Originally posted by grandpagamer

Your correct. Any pve game WOW or any of them that offer PVP servers could be considered PVPVE if you play on the PVP server. Difference is Aion is  totally pve until a certain point whereas in games like WOW starter areas are fair game as well.

Well Aion's RvR areas feature 3 factions.  The two player factions and an NPC faction which creates an interesting dynamic.  Also many of the raid bosses and instances are built around the conflict between the three factions and pit the two factions against each other with common PvE goals.  I think this is more where the PvPvE comes into play.  I believe originally it was in reference to elyosVasmodiansVbalaur.

I posted this just below but just so it you don't miss it(balaur are the E in PvPvE):

"The Balaur are a server-controlled NPC faction, so players cannot choose to play them.
However, just because they are controlled by the server doesn't mean they are stupid; they can make choices, and players will never quite know what they are going to do.
For example, imagine a castle siege-style scenario, where one of the player factions, the Asmodians, is attacking the Elyos faction's castle. In the middle of this siege, the Balaur may appear.

When they arrive, no-one will know what they are going to do. They may have previously helped the Asmodians, but that doesn't matter; in the siege, they might betray them and help the Elyos. Or they might help the Asmodians to siege the Elyos' castle. Or... they might try and take the castle for themselves, fighting against both the Elyos and the Asmodians.

The important thing to realize is that the Balaur are not typical NPCs. They are the third faction in the game, and they have free will, which makes them very unpredictable."

Originally posted by catlana

The game has been fun so far. I also enjoy pvp in a limited basis and I have lots of buddies. So repeated gankings are usually not an issue. However, the biggest issue with RvR games like Aion tend to be pop balance. If your side is vastly outnumbered it is very hard to do anything.

The third faction, the Balaur, which are NPC's are used in some ways to balance out the different pops of Elyos and Asmodians.  There are systems in place to help balance it out with bonuses given to less populated or losing factions so that the servers will never grow stale or too one sided to play. 

From the wiki(In the following sample I believe if one side is dominating the Balaur will mostly help the other side.  Kind of like a dev/server cheat to balance it out):

"The Balaur are a server-controlled NPC faction, so players cannot choose to play them.
However, just because they are controlled by the server doesn't mean they are stupid; they can make choices, and players will never quite know what they are going to do.
For example, imagine a castle siege-style scenario, where one of the player factions, the Asmodians, is attacking the Elyos faction's castle. In the middle of this siege, the Balaur may appear.

When they arrive, no-one will know what they are going to do. They may have previously helped the Asmodians, but that doesn't matter; in the siege, they might betray them and help the Elyos. Or they might help the Asmodians to siege the Elyos' castle. Or... they might try and take the castle for themselves, fighting against both the Elyos and the Asmodians.

The important thing to realize is that the Balaur are not typical NPCs. They are the third faction in the game, and they have free will, which makes them very unpredictable."

Originally posted by Wizardry

I have stated OVER AND OVER PVP does "NOT" work in ANY MMORPG.As soon as you bring PVP into the mix ,it is no longer a MMORPG,it is a FPS.You can NOT have the "role play" aspect in the game when someone else gets to determine what you do or do not do in the game,it does NOT match or mix.

 

I disagree because in life as well which mmorpg's are trying to emmulate "a real world" where we live and exisit as an alter ego, you could be walking down the street and get ganked. Just because there is pvp doesnt take the RP aspect out of the game especially when there are two opposing factions in the game and just like in real life, if you saw a member of the Taliban you are probably going to go after him.

Originally posted by grandpagamer

Your correct. Any pve game WOW or any of them that offer PVP servers could be considered PVPVE if you play on the PVP server. Difference is Aion is  totally pve until a certain point whereas in games like WOW starter areas are fair game as well.

Umm no, the starter areas in WoW up to level 20ish are heavily protected. You are not flagged for pvp in any WoW starter area. You can not be flagged for pvp in these areas unless you attack an enemy first. You can dance, mock, whatever and they can not attack you. They can kill everything around you including NPCs but not attack you. WoWs protection is pretty complete for lowbies even on pvp servers.

This is different in Aion. When an enemy comes through a rift, you are fair game. I was glad to hear about the third faction balancing out the population.  

I really have to say I disagree. There is no forced PVP - if you don't want to go into the abyss then don't and if you don't want to go through rifts don't. It is easy enough to avoid people comming through rifts and rifts only open in certain areas of the world - not everywhere. If you really don't want to PVP (an attitude I don't understand at all) then don't. Simple.

Originally posted by Malkosha

 

 I've always been a little suspicious of people who play class based games for the PvP only. Makes me think that they are trying hard to avoid those "level playing field" skill based PvP experiences.
 

Team Fortress 2

Originally posted by Palebane

Originally posted by Malkosha

 

 I've always been a little suspicious of people who play class based games for the PvP only. Makes me think that they are trying hard to avoid those "level playing field" skill based PvP experiences.
 

Team Fortress 2

I play TF2 and MMOs for PvP only.

What can I say?  I like to kill others in the virtual world.  TF2 is a level playing field.  It's too easy to master that though. 

The unlevel field of an MMO is what makes it fun.  Sieges, Raids, RvR with differeing sets / abilities.  There's more tactics in dertermining who should die first.  There are weapon unlocks with TF2, but everyone has access to the same class hp and armour values. 

Originally posted by Neyon

I really have to say I disagree. There is no forced PVP - if you don't want to go into the abyss then don't and if you don't want to go through rifts don't. It is easy enough to avoid people comming through rifts and rifts only open in certain areas of the world - not everywhere. If you really don't want to PVP (an attitude I don't understand at all) then don't. Simple.

I have a brother in law that likes to run around solo just joining a group for instances and group quests. He does not like to be "dependant" on other people so he migrated to a WoW pve server from ours. He is a pretty casual player and likes questing about. He is fun to play with and I play AoC with him (pve server of course). He will even pvp in mini games once in awhile.

Now, I am not a casual type player. If you gank one of my alts, you better run. I will come back on my main maybe with a buddy or two if necessary and camp you till you log out or manage to escape. There is a very different mindset between PVE and PVP.

Originally posted by johnisme

I enjoy pvp when i choose to play it but if its forced on me to progress then i will choose another mmo,simple as that.

QFT (as far a my own personal preferences go).

I enjoy PvP when I'm in the mood to PvP.  Sometimes I'm just in the mood to craft without any interruptions....or farm mats, or quest, or hang out at the in game pub and "toss back a few" virtual drinks and chat.  For me, a game is only as good as the number of CHOICES it allows me to make.  End of story....for me.

 you ain't forced to go to the abyss where the most of the pvp will be. and as such ya dont have to participate as ya can level to 50 just fine whitout ever entering the abys, you just miss a large bit of the lore associated with that area.

that and you will gain levels a bit slower, as abys mobs give higher xp and i think more drops as normal mobs outside the abys (which is logical as the risk is alot higher in the abys as in the normal leveling area's)

Forced pvp the same way you are forced to log into the game. Rofl at the stupidity of the original posters wall of text.

I am primarily a PvE player myself.  This Last beta event I hit lvl 20 and was questing outside of Eltnen (sp?)  when I was ganked from behind.  So there is no way you can PvE only this game past 20.  Anyways,  I ran out of the gank and self healed (cleric) and ran toward the npc mobs (my attacker was wise enough not to follow),  I gave a shout that Asmo's were near the fort and I saw ten of our guys go by looking for him.  So i really wish there were more "safe" zones for PvE players as this game is so nice, but hey I will probably play it anyways (for now till some of the big mmo's come out) and if it really starts to bother me then I will just play LOTRO.  

 thats the thing :), there are almost safe pve area's (atm atleast) but they aint completly 100% safe and why should they be with a game with this specific lore (2 races hating eachother and able to reach eachother)

Originally posted by namelessbob

Forced pvp the same way you are forced to log into the game. Rofl at the stupidity of the original posters wall of text.

Let me put it in simple terms because it seems many in the Aion community would rather attack the person making the comment than debate/discuss the issue at hand:

I am out PVE'ing in  a zone. I am minding my own business doing a quest when a rift opens up. 10-20 players come through and kill me.

All of the sudden the CHOICE for me to PVP has been taken from me. Maybe I didn't want to PVP at that moment. Maybe I needed that one last mob for  a quest right before I was headed to sleep. Maybe I was going after a named or trying to get that last crafting item I needed.

Now I have been killed and this "forced" pvp has interrupted my evening and what I want to do. I did not CHOOSE to PVP, the choice was made for me by the game and its design.

How many times will this happen before people who like CHOICES (like myself and Girlgeek above) leave the game? Not many, I promise you that. Luckily, for me, I learned this well in advance so I will not be purchasing the game.

The other issue is, outside of the Aion fanboi community, NCSoft is not making this a well known aspect of the game. It is almost hush hush and a lot of people (as evidenced by many in these forums who tried the beta weekends - like me) were not aware of this design feature. It honestly borders on the ole bait and switch tactic if you ask me.

What people are meaning by forced is that you, as the player, have no choice to PVP or not.

Originally posted by Calintz333

Thats right, I just want to make it clear, I previously stated in a thread about 2 weeks back that Aion would by my last mmorpg ever. I promised this to freinds and family. That this would be the last mmorpg game I start or play. I still only play to play / start 1 mmorpg no matter what but It wont be Aion.

 

Unlike the majority of people who do not like aion and come here just to flame and troll I actually have something logical and coherent points to bring up. 

First of all I would like to get something out of the way. I was and still am for the most part a huge colossal Aion fan. I have a  poster of Aion which I got in Comic-Con last year in the Ncsoft booth. I had reserved two copies of the limited Edition version of Aion, I had began working with a friend on an Aion fan site in december of 2008, as well as with a online gaming community to join a legion all together as soon as Aion was released. I have been a member of Aion source site since early 2007. I have been eargerly waiting for Aion since 2007.  You could say I am about as big as a Aion fan could get...or was.

 

Im not going to sit here and say Aion is a bad game for this feature of FORCED open world PvP in order to progress, because it is not. It is still a great game that incorporates something totally original and unique into its game play that will be a huge draw to some players, but in my opinion it will be an even bigger barrier to get PvE oriented players, which many games have shown make up the majority of mmorpgs.

 

It is something different made for those players who want something like this.  Originally I was under the impression that Aion was a game that would cater to many different types of play styles. I have recently learned that this is not true at all. Aion is by far not catering to the PvE player. To progress in any meaningful way shape or form you will need to level, and as you level areas become open PK with you having no say in it. Most of the meaningful progressive quests in the game are in an area called the abyss which is also open PK.  The game does not provide a real in game choice for players who do not want to PvP to progress, it is built with PvP as a main point in progressing in mind.

 

I am happy about this at the same time I am very disillusioned.  I am happy for those players who finally get a game that has a good mix of PvE and PvP where they don't  just make PvP a back seat to PvE, and at the same time PvP incorporates a huge sum of a great storyline. This is amazing for those players who were waiting for something like this. I am sure a lot of people will be very happy to know that Aion is that game where PvP can actually help you progress as much if not more than PvE in story, lore, as well as gear.

 

To me this system just does not work well. I do not find any enjoyment at all in ruining another players gaming experience for my own humor, nor do I appreciate it when others do the same to me. I play games to have fun, not to be frustrated.

I hope that everyone here really enjoys Aion because it is an amazing game with great potential for its intended audience. In my China, and US beta weeks I have experienced things in Aion that no other mmorpg has even come close to acomplishing. Immersion unlike any I have ever seen, amazing storytelling and much more.

To a Long term PvE veteran like myself though Aion has been my biggest let down in gaming. In 15 years of gaming I have never felt as empty and disillusioned with any game as I do with Aion. It is not because of what it is not, it is not because I think the game is bad, its just the fact the game forces players to play the game in such a way that I know very well I do not enjoy.

 

As I stated in the beginning of my post, I had previously stated this would be the last EVER mmorpg game I buy and stick with, Well, I had been looking forward to it for 3+ years, I had worked on a fan site for it, I had joined the largest US community of Aion, I was already in a pre determined Legion community.... If all of that does not prove that I was a devoted Aion enthusiast I don't know what will. I just wish Aion gave me the option to enjoy the game the way I want to enjoy it, not force me into a pre determined play style that I despise.   An even bigger shocker is that I had no idea Aion was going to be a PvP based game until recently, I can't believe that in all those years of looking into Aion and in all those hours I spent on the beta testings, I never bothered to ask how the PvP would be until recently.  Guess a lot of that is really my own fault too :)

 

 

 

 

all that wasted time..if you go to the official website and read the FAQs at  http://www.aiononline.com/us/game_guide/faq/frequently_asked_questions.html you would have an idea of what PvPvE is about. There is emphasis on PvP in Aion for a reason.  And considering this game was released in Asia, it was very easy to find info on the Web. But of course, your best bet is to buy the game, or at least play beta lol

Seriously? If you know this might happen why play or even buy the game? I won't go around crying on the lotro forums why the game didn't have any PvP. Maybe research the game a bit more before you go buy it.

Originally posted by Harakiri

Seriously? If you know this might happen why play or even buy the game? I won't go around crying on the lotro forums why the game didn't have any PvP. Maybe research the game a bit more before you go buy it.

LOTRO does have PVP too. Just saying.

Originally posted by templarga

Originally posted by Harakiri

Seriously? If you know this might happen why play or even buy the game? I won't go around crying on the lotro forums why the game didn't have any PvP. Maybe research the game a bit more before you go buy it.

LOTRO does have PVP too. Just saying.

I will keep quiet about LOTRO pvp although it pains me to do so.

I do agree that peeps who are expecting a gank free pve experience will not be happy playing Aion. Aion has alot of pvp elements in the game. There are enough pvp elements that if you really dislike pvp then Aion is most likely not the game for you.

However, if you like pvp then Aion also has some interesting pve, well done fast gameplay, and incredible graphics. The game is fun to play.

Originally posted by grandpagamer

Your correct. Any pve game WOW or any of them that offer PVP servers could be considered PVPVE if you play on the PVP server. Difference is Aion is  totally pve until a certain point whereas in games like WOW starter areas are fair game as well.

You guys and your missinformation....  Again almost all PvP games are like that where you start in a sheltered environment usually defined by a protected area or by a level limit.  Again NOT ALL PvP games but most of them.

But again the point was that the term PvPvE is BS and being made up to make the game sound more appealing to PvE players.

Originally posted by ethion

Originally posted by grandpagamer

Your correct. Any pve game WOW or any of them that offer PVP servers could be considered PVPVE if you play on the PVP server. Difference is Aion is  totally pve until a certain point whereas in games like WOW starter areas are fair game as well.

 

You guys and your missinformation....  Again almost all PvP games are like that where you start in a sheltered environment usually defined by a protected area or by a level limit.  Again NOT ALL PvP games but most of them.

But again the point was that the term PvPvE is BS and being made up to make the game sound more appealing to PvE players.

 

I think the pvpve refers to the Baluar part of the game.

Originally posted by ProfRed

Originally posted by catlana

The game has been fun so far. I also enjoy pvp in a limited basis and I have lots of buddies. So repeated gankings are usually not an issue. However, the biggest issue with RvR games like Aion tend to be pop balance. If your side is vastly outnumbered it is very hard to do anything.

 

The third faction, the Balaur, which are NPC's are used in some ways to balance out the different pops of Elyos and Asmodians.  There are systems in place to help balance it out with bonuses given to less populated or losing factions so that the servers will never grow stale or too one sided to play. 

From the wiki(In the following sample I believe if one side is dominating the Balaur will mostly help the other side.  Kind of like a dev/server cheat to balance it out):

"The Balaur are a server-controlled NPC faction, so players cannot choose to play them.
However, just because they are controlled by the server doesn't mean they are stupid; they can make choices, and players will never quite know what they are going to do.
For example, imagine a castle siege-style scenario, where one of the player factions, the Asmodians, is attacking the Elyos faction's castle. In the middle of this siege, the Balaur may appear.

When they arrive, no-one will know what they are going to do. They may have previously helped the Asmodians, but that doesn't matter; in the siege, they might betray them and help the Elyos. Or they might help the Asmodians to siege the Elyos' castle. Or... they might try and take the castle for themselves, fighting against both the Elyos and the Asmodians.

The important thing to realize is that the Balaur are not typical NPCs. They are the third faction in the game, and they have free will, which makes them very unpredictable."

I believe what I've read is that the 3rd faction will be there to help keep things in balance.  So they will be more of the threat to the dominant faction.  This is one of the interesting features in the RvR setup of Aion that I think could do a very good job keeping imbalance to a minimum.  This is kinda like DaoC with the 3 PC faction which helped balance things but I think an NPC faction will work even better.  This was in my opinion one of the flaws in Warhammer only having two factions...

Originally posted by Kyleran

i recall your post 2 weeks ago, and I said it then, you seem too emotionally invested in MMO's so perhaps its better if you quit now.

You don't vow to people that you're going to play or not play a game, you just do or you don't.

All PVE games are really out of fashion atm, so it might be a while until the wheel swings around again and someone makes a pure PVE game.

 

 

... from the person with 8 thousand posts.  Ms. Kettle, I would like to introduce you to Mr. Pot.

Pure PvE games are really expensive, and for that, the near future is *all* PvE with some PvP mixed. If you don't like PVP at all, the next games will put you on a corner.

BUT there are enough pve games, so living on that corner has not that horrible.

Originally posted by templarga

Originally posted by namelessbob

Forced pvp the same way you are forced to log into the game. Rofl at the stupidity of the original posters wall of text.

Let me put it in simple terms because it seems many in the Aion community would rather attack the person making the comment than debate/discuss the issue at hand:

I am out PVE'ing in  a zone. I am minding my own business doing a quest when a rift opens up. 10-20 players come through and kill me.

All of the sudden the CHOICE for me to PVP has been taken from me. Maybe I didn't want to PVP at that moment. Maybe I needed that one last mob for  a quest right before I was headed to sleep. Maybe I was going after a named or trying to get that last crafting item I needed.

Now I have been killed and this "forced" pvp has interrupted my evening and what I want to do. I did not CHOOSE to PVP, the choice was made for me by the game and its design.

How many times will this happen before people who like CHOICES (like myself and Girlgeek above) leave the game? Not many, I promise you that. Luckily, for me, I learned this well in advance so I will not be purchasing the game.

The other issue is, outside of the Aion fanboi community, NCSoft is not making this a well known aspect of the game. It is almost hush hush and a lot of people (as evidenced by many in these forums who tried the beta weekends - like me) were not aware of this design feature. It honestly borders on the ole bait and switch tactic if you ask me.

What people are meaning by forced is that you, as the player, have no choice to PVP or not.

Well said!! I have also decided to opt out of this game based on the lastest info.  Like you said there is a lot of misinfomation about this game.  A lot of it stems from the PvPvE thing which in my opinion is intentional deception.  Rather then tell people straight up the game is RvR with heavy emphasis on PvP they make it sound like it provides both PvP and PvE which is really a contradiction.  PvE = NOT PvP no that you got NPCs to fight cause every MMO has that.  

A couple weeks ago I asked if I could level to max level without having to participate in PvP and the consensys on this forum was YES you can level to 50 without being involved in pvp.  Now with this latest beta that is shown to be false.  So it is just an example of the confusion and misinformation around this game.