I like most others raged and QQ about game guard but now seeing the present situation of Aion and it's boting problems I am forced to ask myself if NCsoft would have left GG alone and did not remove it a launch would it have stoped or at the very least hampered the boting situation at all?

I played CB, OB, and head start and did not see the boting that runs rampent through the game now, actualy I never ran into 1 bot all throught CB and OB.

I wounder if the real question is if we are partly responsible for the present situation at all?

NCsoft tries to implement a tool that is supose to combat the present situation and all we did was rage,QQ, and threaten to quit,not buy, or get a charge back from our CC if GG was to be used so the company removes the tool and look at what Aion is faced with now.

To make maters worse after all the customers saying they did not want GG and NCsoft removing it their is little to no chance they would consider bringing it back so what is the company left with as a option to solve the problem. 

Originally posted by Zartanyen

I like most others raged and QQ about game guard but now seeing the present situation of Aion and it's boting problems I am forced to ask myself if NCsoft would have left GG alone and did not remove it a launch would it have stoped or at the very least hampered the boting situation at all?

I played CB, OB, and head start and did not see the boting that runs rampent through the game now, actualy I never ran into 1 bot all throught CB and OB.

I wounder if the real question is if we are partly responsible for the present situation at all?

NCsoft tries to implement a tool that is supose to combat the present situation and all we did was rage,QQ, and threaten to quit,not buy, or get a charge back from our CC if GG was to be used so the company removes the tool and look at what Aion is faced with now.

To make maters worse after all the customers saying they did not want GG and NCsoft removing it their is little to no chance they would consider bringing it back so what is the company left with as a option to solve the problem. 

The Chinese and Korean versions of Aion use Gameguard and the botting and the spam are just as bad. Gameguard is relatively easy to bypass if the person is interested enough and gold sellers are very interested.

Gameguard is not an option and It does more harm than good.

The problem with Game Gaurd is it is used on multiple products, therefore there are known work arounds and hacks that will allow you to effectively bypass it.

Its kinda like Secure Rom (not in what it does, but how easily it is bypassed by anyone with the ability to type or edit config files). GG only really hurts the honest player as most botters/spammers/hackers already know how to bypass it way before the game launches.

No matter what anyone tries to say, Botting is just as bad in the asian markets Aion client. The problem with companies like NCSoft is sure, they have security doors and locks (GG) but dont really have any security personel to make sure the people who managed to sneak past the locked door get caught and thrown out.

GG is more like a sign on the wall of a Dept Store saying "Please do shop lift.". The normal honset person will abide by the sign by waiting in the long checkout lines and not shoplift. The dishonest person will read the sign while stuffing merchendise into their pockets and leave the store without any remorse. The sign really had no effect on them. Thats where Loss Prevention staff come in.

You need ingame support to deal with the botting issue, such as GMs and other paid/compensated staff (Volunteer GMs, Guides, etc) to monitor and respond to reports of botters/hackers/exploiters. Sure they wont catch everyone, but they will catch and hamper the majority. There always needs to be the human element in any form of security.

Currently Aion doesnt have that human element, specially in the west. Its a classic NCSoft mistake.

Originally posted by fyerwall

The problem with Game Gaurd is it is used on multiple products, therefore there are known work arounds and hacks that will allow you to effectively bypass it.

Its kinda like Secure Rom (not in what it does, but how easily it is bypassed by anyone with the ability to type or edit config files). GG only really hurts the honest player as most botters/spammers/hackers already know how to bypass it way before the game launches.

No matter what anyone tries to say, Botting is just as bad in the asian markets Aion client. The problem with companies like NCSoft is sure, they have security doors and locks (GG) but dont really have any security personel to make sure the people who managed to sneak past the locked door get caught and thrown out.

GG is more like a sign on the wall of a Dept Store saying "Please do shop lift.". The normal honset person will abide by the sign by waiting in the long checkout lines and not shoplift. The dishonest person will read the sign while stuffing merchendise into their pockets and leave the store without any remorse. The sign really had no effect on them. Thats where Loss Prevention staff come in.

You need ingame support to deal with the botting issue, such as GMs and other paid/compensated staff (Volunteer GMs, Guides, etc) to monitor and respond to reports of botters/hackers/exploiters. Sure they wont catch everyone, but they will catch and hamper the majority. There always needs to be the human element in any form of security.

Currently Aion doesnt have that human element, specially in the west. Its a classic NCSoft mistake.

Agreed, it would take one or two GM's about 10 minutes to remove all the sales bots sitting around the towns in each server advertsing ISK sales, but they don't have them and they don't get rid of them.

Wouldn't be that much harder to pursue the bots in the field either, but NCSoft knows botters pay for accounts too, so they don't seem to care.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by fyerwall

The problem with Game Gaurd is it is used on multiple products, therefore there are known work arounds and hacks that will allow you to effectively bypass it.

Its kinda like Secure Rom (not in what it does, but how easily it is bypassed by anyone with the ability to type or edit config files). GG only really hurts the honest player as most botters/spammers/hackers already know how to bypass it way before the game launches.

No matter what anyone tries to say, Botting is just as bad in the asian markets Aion client. The problem with companies like NCSoft is sure, they have security doors and locks (GG) but dont really have any security personel to make sure the people who managed to sneak past the locked door get caught and thrown out.

GG is more like a sign on the wall of a Dept Store saying "Please do shop lift.". The normal honset person will abide by the sign by waiting in the long checkout lines and not shoplift. The dishonest person will read the sign while stuffing merchendise into their pockets and leave the store without any remorse. The sign really had no effect on them. Thats where Loss Prevention staff come in.

You need ingame support to deal with the botting issue, such as GMs and other paid/compensated staff (Volunteer GMs, Guides, etc) to monitor and respond to reports of botters/hackers/exploiters. Sure they wont catch everyone, but they will catch and hamper the majority. There always needs to be the human element in any form of security.

Currently Aion doesnt have that human element, specially in the west. Its a classic NCSoft mistake.

 

Agreed, it would take one or two GM's about 10 minutes to remove all the sales bots sitting around the towns in each server advertsing ISK sales, but they don't have them and they don't get rid of them.

Wouldn't be that much harder to pursue the bots in the field either, but NCSoft knows botters pay for accounts too, so they don't seem to care.

Aye.

Sure some people will bring up how botting is in every MMO out there, but what they dont want to admit is how reduced its presence is or how quickly it is dealt with. Most western games have 3 teirs of support in game. EQ had the guide (volunteer player GMs) the GM (specific to 1 server) and the Head GM (watched multiple servers). AO had the Ark program (players who dedicated X hours per week to working with other players and answering questions/problems - compensated with fully paid accounts for as long as you were an Ark) allowing the paid GMs to handle more pressing game problems (such as hackers, etc)

NCSoft ingame support is almost non existant in their games. The support that does exist is either really lazy or claim to have no ability to deal with the subject.

Gameguard is worthless and pointless. Botting is rampant even more so on Asian servers then EU/US ones. Its a standard in NCSoft games, not just Aion. They also take kickbacks from the gold sellers. I have no proof or sources and don't care enough to find any, however you can figure it out for yourself if you are interested enough.

Originally posted by Zartanyen

 

I played CB, OB, and head start and did not see the boting that runs rampent through the game now, actualy I never ran into 1 bot all throught CB and OB.

 

Ahhhh yeahhh. Of course you didn't see any bots in Beta. I mean what would have been the point? Bot to level 30 and get all the phat lewtz so they can wipe the servers and you lose it all? LOL.

And of course there aren't going to be any gold seller bots in Beta, because once again, server wipe = no point.

The only thing leaving GG in would have accomplished is keeping sub numbers low.

A simple google search back in closed beta  for "MMO Gold" would have easily demonstrated to any company exec the gold/Plevel sellers were going to hit Aion Hard. I doubt game guard would have prevented the bots, maybe delayed them a week or so.

I agree, the best way to combat bots are with humans. Hire some, deputize others and let's start hunting

im not worries about the bots .. and no GG wouldnt have stopped the bots ...

but it would have stopped some of the other exploits and hack ive seen people use ...

no.

NO.

No, GG would not have stopped botting.

Chinese version had GG in it and it had more bots than this.

As many have already pointed out, the problem is not with the lack of a GG-type program.  The problem is that, despite NCsoft's protestations to the contrary, there is not enough "human intervention".

When a goldseller can set up a personal shop right in front of the teleporter for one of the busiest areas in the game, AND REMAIN THERE FOR 3 DAYS, there's something wrong.  Either NCsoft doesn't care, or they've recognized that they're powerless to stop it and have simply decided to funnel cash elsewhere.

This is only one of many problems Aion is facing.  Getting rid of the botters/spammers would help, though.

Originally posted by fyerwall

The problem with Game Gaurd is it is used on multiple products, therefore there are known work arounds and hacks that will allow you to effectively bypass it.

Its kinda like Secure Rom (not in what it does, but how easily it is bypassed by anyone with the ability to type or edit config files). GG only really hurts the honest player as most botters/spammers/hackers already know how to bypass it way before the game launches.

No matter what anyone tries to say, Botting is just as bad in the asian markets Aion client. The problem with companies like NCSoft is sure, they have security doors and locks (GG) but dont really have any security personel to make sure the people who managed to sneak past the locked door get caught and thrown out.

GG is more like a sign on the wall of a Dept Store saying "Please do shop lift.". The normal honset person will abide by the sign by waiting in the long checkout lines and not shoplift. The dishonest person will read the sign while stuffing merchendise into their pockets and leave the store without any remorse. The sign really had no effect on them. Thats where Loss Prevention staff come in.

You need ingame support to deal with the botting issue, such as GMs and other paid/compensated staff (Volunteer GMs, Guides, etc) to monitor and respond to reports of botters/hackers/exploiters. Sure they wont catch everyone, but they will catch and hamper the majority. There always needs to be the human element in any form of security.

Currently Aion doesnt have that human element, specially in the west. Its a classic NCSoft mistake.

GMs aren't the issue. The imbalance between solo/grouping in terms of risk/gain and the lack of content are the real issue. Players are botting because the game isn't worth playing between 35 and 50. It's just a boring grind without any fun and sense.

I can understand why so many players are botting now... I can't log and play more than 20mins without being bored. Seeing the same botters level to 50 without even being suspending is aggravating the problem.

Humans are not the issue... The lack of fun and group content is.

if NCsoft would have left GG alone and did not remove it a launch would it have stoped or at the very least hampered the boting situation at all?

Not at all. The botting would be as bad as it is now, as GameGuard does not block any bots nor prevent any cheats or hacks. However there would be substantialy lesser number of legitimate users who would be turned away from Aion by Game Guard (me included).

I played CB, OB, and head start and did not see the boting that runs rampent through the game now, actualy I never ran into 1 bot all throught CB and OB.

There were virtually no bots in beta, as there was no incentive for botters. People do not buy gold in beta, so farmers do not have incentive to farm.

I wounder if the real question is if we are partly responsible for the present situation at all?

Not at all.  On the contrary, situation would be much worse,  as the number of bots would be more or like the same but there would be much less real player. So if now every 3rd character online is bot, it would be every second with GG left in.

NCsoft tries to implement a tool that is supose to combat the present situation and all we did was rage,QQ, and threaten to quit,not buy, or get a charge back from our CC if GG was to be used so the company removes the tool and look at what Aion is faced with now.

Bullshit., They do some marketing shit talk to persuade you they are implementing anti cheat / bot tools, but they are as effective as GameGuard is. They had GG in the forst place to be able to say "our software is protected form cheating by industry standard GameGuard' while said software was 100% unefective in botting prevention.

To make maters worse after all the customers saying they did not want GG and NCsoft removing it their is little to no chance they would consider bringing it back so what is the company left with as a option to solve the problem.

They ARE onsidering bringing GG back. They said they will bring it back as soon as GG will be working as intended (protectng from cheats - not interfering with normal computer use). But if that was honest statement, they will never bring back GG as it will never work as intended. The whole system is good for nothing.

Originally posted by fyerwall

The problem with Game Gaurd is it is used on multiple products, therefore there are known work arounds and hacks that will allow you to effectively bypass it.

Its kinda like Secure Rom (not in what it does, but how easily it is bypassed by anyone with the ability to type or edit config files). GG only really hurts the honest player as most botters/spammers/hackers already know how to bypass it way before the game launches.

No matter what anyone tries to say, Botting is just as bad in the asian markets Aion client. The problem with companies like NCSoft is sure, they have security doors and locks (GG) but dont really have any security personel to make sure the people who managed to sneak past the locked door get caught and thrown out.

GG is more like a sign on the wall of a Dept Store saying "Please do shop lift.". The normal honset person will abide by the sign by waiting in the long checkout lines and not shoplift. The dishonest person will read the sign while stuffing merchendise into their pockets and leave the store without any remorse. The sign really had no effect on them. Thats where Loss Prevention staff come in.

You need ingame support to deal with the botting issue, such as GMs and other paid/compensated staff (Volunteer GMs, Guides, etc) to monitor and respond to reports of botters/hackers/exploiters. Sure they wont catch everyone, but they will catch and hamper the majority. There always needs to be the human element in any form of security.

Currently Aion doesnt have that human element, specially in the west. Its a classic NCSoft mistake.

this.

Originally posted by Zartanyen

I like most others raged and QQ about game guard but now seeing the present situation of Aion and it's boting problems I am forced to ask myself if NCsoft would have left GG alone and did not remove it a launch would it have stoped or at the very least hampered the boting situation at all?

I played CB, OB, and head start and did not see the boting that runs rampent through the game now, actualy I never ran into 1 bot all throught CB and OB.

I wounder if the real question is if we are partly responsible for the present situation at all?

NCsoft tries to implement a tool that is supose to combat the present situation and all we did was rage,QQ, and threaten to quit,not buy, or get a charge back from our CC if GG was to be used so the company removes the tool and look at what Aion is faced with now.

To make maters worse after all the customers saying they did not want GG and NCsoft removing it their is little to no chance they would consider bringing it back so what is the company left with as a option to solve the problem. 

heres another point to add to what others have said, GG doesn't work very well.  sometimes you can't even play the game because of GG, many people ran windows 7 or vista 64 bit and GG had major problems running on them.

so no you are just pulling that out of your ass if you think there wasn't a real reason for people wanting GG removed. why did you think people wanted it removed? i mean what reason could you come up with?

i think "i can't even play because of GG!" is a good enough reason to remove it till they fix it, since it was the reason i wanted it removed.

rage? rage about what? i'd be annoyed at a company that used software that broke the game for me and didn't get on the ball about fixing it.