Originally posted by Bureyku

Well I don't like MMORPG's that enforce fair fights.  MMORPG's are supposed to be living breathing virtual worlds with adventure, intrigue, treasures, great creatures, etc. etc.

If factions are at war fights should break out across the world.  They should happen dynamically and not be planned.  The thing is there will almost never be a perfectly fair and even fight and that is how it should be.  Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes you fall to unbeatable odds, and sometimes you gather allies and defeat unbeatable odds.  That is how I think it should be.

BG's, Arena, enforced fair fights are all shallow concepts and I don't think they belong in MMORPG's at all outside of mini games.  They help to turn MMORPG's more into shallow arcade games than truly epic living breathing worlds. 

All that aside there needs to be a law system/slayer system/murder system or something in place to alleviate ganking.  This is a good system and just needs tweaks. Also i'm not a hardcore PvP'er and I don't ever use the word carebear (except for right now).  My favorite game of all time is FFXI, and I am a frothing fanboy of FFXIV.  Still fair fights, bg's, arenas, etc. are a joke and don't belong in MMORPG's.  They help make MMORPG's the exact opposite of what they could be.

Unfortunately, the only thing not static in MMO's is the players. If there isn't any set guidelines or rules to control them, the game becomes unfair for casual players who will never compete with hardcore gamers. MMO's should be fair to all types of players and open ended full blore PvP does not belong in MMO's for that very reason. This is where the misconception comes from that lumps casual players into being carebears. I for one have a job that takes up a lot of my time each week while others get mommy and daddy to pay for their stuff. So, because I don't level as quickly as some due to real life time constraints, I'm labeled a carebear? Forgive me for wanting a fair fight which actually tests my PvP skills. If you want to go gank lowbies all day, seek a mental health specialist and explain to them why you enjoy it so much.

I don't understand why the so called hard core pvp player gets upset about any system that helps against the bully. If you want to gank lower levels and not worry about this slayer system just head in to the ABYSS and gank lower levels without penalty. Problem solved.

Exactly. Most people who shout out "carebear" with any sort of disdain are usually an elitist flavor of the month type of juvenile. Not to say excessive whining isn't carebear or that there isn't a reason to use the term... but just snapping off with it as a knee jerk reaction is the quickest way to show your colors.

Typically it's a bully mentality that gives the impression of needing to show off, as opposed to a professional fighter who flat out doesn't care, will go 1v1 against anyone because well, that's what they do. True pvp'ers (not necessarily duelers) understand this and don't need to show disdain for a system they are comfortable with.

System sounds great to me.

You know its great with the carebears and the hardcore are crying about it.

sounds like a pretty nice system. makes sure that elyos dont take over morheim and vice versa.

If penalities would prevent people doing harm to others, America would be one of the safest places in the world. Go figure.

Slayer System has a possible advantage.

Use the slayer as bait, then flank them lol.

Originally posted by Cernan

I think in the end the system is pretty fair.  All it is does is prevent you from rezzing in enemy PvE territory and marking you on the map.  Unless I am missing something, there are no stat debuffs.  So there is nothing for anyone to get worked up about over this trivial debuff.

 If you are a level 50 in a lvl 20-30 zone, no one will be able to kill you unless a group near your level comes in.  The level 20-30 toons won't be able to hit you and you can continue on your griefing spree until someone higher level comes to stop you.  Being unable to rezz through a kiosk won't matter because the level 50 won't die.  Marking on the map is mostly useless, because if they are griefing everyone knows where they are located.

There is another post by a guy about a level 30 SM camping the hill outside of Morheim, the only exit to the city.  It didn't matter how many level 19/20 Asmodians came to fight.  One level 30 was enough to kill them all.  I was there with him, the 30 never died.  So this debuff wouldn't have mattered to er.  Everyone knew where she was, take two steps outside of town and there she was waiting for you.  I wasn't overly upset.  I could have just teleported to Brusthonin to avoid the situation.  I'm just pointing trying to point out to people that from what is stated, this debuff is extremely minor.

well see the thing is, the Slayer is like sweet sweet candy to another High lvl character.they become ALOT of AP points as a slayer. and if for no otehr reason you will have higher lvl people "come to save the day" just for the fact that they'll get an ass load fo AP for killing the griever.

Originally posted by udinthrik

Slayer System has a possible advantage.

 

Use the slayer as bait, then flank them lol.

Yep people did this in EQ2 to get around zone level resitrctions in the lower zone (higher zone had none).  A level 80 would partner up with a level 25 and have him sit right on top of a PvE mob while a group of level 25s killed it.  If he got hit by anything the level 80 (or was it 70 at the time doesn't really matter) would one shot the whole group.  Was really pathetic.

This is system is not as stupid but it can still be abused.  However the burden is where it should be, on the higher levels.  The effect of the abuse will still be 3 people killing one not 1 killing 6 with no effort.  No effort.  Put that in your pipe and smoke it supposedly hardcore pieces of crap.  No effort.  Everyone knows you are hypocrites because you want to execute your grief as easily as possible.

You know you are dealing with an irrational or useless person when they beleive the burden should be on the level 25 and no burden should be on the max level person.  That is patently silly on many levels.  Has nothing to do with carebear or whatever.

 Especially in the case of Aion where Elyos and Asmo are not supposed to be able to stay in each others area with ease and the Abyss is supposed to be the main battleground.

The entire idea of rifting is that it is a temporary Skirmish.  Not a war campaign.  Not a constant days long camp.  Yet as soon as a burden is placed upon people who have it as easy as it can be to enforce the entire point of the zone.  They cry like little babies.

Because they are hypocrites and won't go to the Abyss.  That is beauty of the Aion setup.  As soon as they cry you can ask them "Why aren't you fighting in the real war, coward?"

Edit: Keep in mind the entire backstory of the game is based upon the idea that the two sides had no contact or even knew they had survived for about a 1000 years or more.  Any griefer piece of crap trying to justify their actions as war by other means is simply full of crap.  That is not the premise.  The Rifts are not meant as a true front in the war.

Originally posted by Bureyku

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

No system that forces PvEers to PvP will be acceptable to them.

 

That's fine then this game isn't for them plain and simple.  They can try all they want to change every game that comes out to fit their style, but it isn't going to happen.  They will just have to move along.  That isn't saying anything bad about PvP'ers, PvE'ers, or Aion it's just the way it is. 

This is a system to curb over the top repeated griefing and nothing more.

A PvE'er = a player not good enough to engage and beat another 'real' player. 

Originally posted by Rhoklaw

Originally posted by Bureyku

Well I don't like MMORPG's that enforce fair fights.  MMORPG's are supposed to be living breathing virtual worlds with adventure, intrigue, treasures, great creatures, etc. etc.

If factions are at war fights should break out across the world.  They should happen dynamically and not be planned.  The thing is there will almost never be a perfectly fair and even fight and that is how it should be.  Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes you fall to unbeatable odds, and sometimes you gather allies and defeat unbeatable odds.  That is how I think it should be.

BG's, Arena, enforced fair fights are all shallow concepts and I don't think they belong in MMORPG's at all outside of mini games.  They help to turn MMORPG's more into shallow arcade games than truly epic living breathing worlds. 

All that aside there needs to be a law system/slayer system/murder system or something in place to alleviate ganking.  This is a good system and just needs tweaks. Also i'm not a hardcore PvP'er and I don't ever use the word carebear (except for right now).  My favorite game of all time is FFXI, and I am a frothing fanboy of FFXIV.  Still fair fights, bg's, arenas, etc. are a joke and don't belong in MMORPG's.  They help make MMORPG's the exact opposite of what they could be.

 

Unfortunately, the only thing not static in MMO's is the players. If there isn't any set guidelines or rules to control them, the game becomes unfair for casual players who will never compete with hardcore gamers. MMO's should be fair to all types of players and open ended full blore PvP does not belong in MMO's for that very reason. This is where the misconception comes from that lumps casual players into being carebears. I for one have a job that takes up a lot of my time each week while others get mommy and daddy to pay for their stuff. So, because I don't level as quickly as some due to real life time constraints, I'm labeled a carebear? Forgive me for wanting a fair fight which actually tests my PvP skills. If you want to go gank lowbies all day, seek a mental health specialist and explain to them why you enjoy it so much.

PvP isn't for you.  Try HKO?

Originally posted by Soupism

Exactly. Most people who shout out "carebear" with any sort of disdain are usually an elitist flavor of the month type of juvenile. Not to say excessive whining isn't carebear or that there isn't a reason to use the term... but just snapping off with it as a knee jerk reaction is the quickest way to show your colors.

Typically it's a bully mentality that gives the impression of needing to show off, as opposed to a professional fighter who flat out doesn't care, will go 1v1 against anyone because well, that's what they do. True pvp'ers (not necessarily duelers) understand this and don't need to show disdain for a system they are comfortable with.

Whatever.  PvP comes in all shapes and sizes - learn to live with it, or go and play Tetris.

When PVP turns into your main focal point to anything in game it either A proves your a retard cause honestly, you care more to alienate people? One thing to have a good match it's another when it comes to belittling people. Push everyone in the dirt and eventually you end up with something equivalent to Daikatana Online. Got your little cluster fuck of morons who are afraid of anything outside there little world. You have to hack and macro spam your way to the top. Why do you think most games don't do like Diablo anymore. Players get much control they abuse it.

This system doesnt kill rift pvp, it just stops douchebags from hitting max level then ganking level 20s cause they are to cowardly to fight people their own level.

Its designed to stop griefing.

Originally posted by Bureyku

Well I don't like MMORPG's that enforce fair fights.  MMORPG's are supposed to be living breathing virtual worlds with adventure, intrigue, treasures, great creatures, etc. etc.

If factions are at war fights should break out across the world.  They should happen dynamically and not be planned.  The thing is there will almost never be a perfectly fair and even fight and that is how it should be.  Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes you fall to unbeatable odds, and sometimes you gather allies and defeat unbeatable odds.  That is how I think it should be.

BG's, Arena, enforced fair fights are all shallow concepts and I don't think they belong in MMORPG's at all outside of mini games.  They help to turn MMORPG's more into shallow arcade games than truly epic living breathing worlds. 

All that aside there needs to be a law system/slayer system/murder system or something in place to alleviate ganking.  This is a good system and just needs tweaks. Also i'm not a hardcore PvP'er and I don't ever use the word carebear (except for right now).  My favorite game of all time is FFXI, and I am a frothing fanboy of FFXIV.  Still fair fights, bg's, arenas, etc. are a joke and don't belong in MMORPG's.  They help make MMORPG's the exact opposite of what they could be.

Its a society problem I think, I am in my 40's now and have no problem with someone 10+ lvls above me killing me, I accept this as part of the gameplay in Warcraft.  If you take it away and make the world much safer then I lose intrest very quickly.  I love questing in a dangerous world where high lvl players may or may not be out looking for easy kills, I love the whole concept of having to look over my shoulder when questing and if a ganker comes along then gathering a few guys together and killing him is great. 
 

But look no further than the schools of today, they are all promoting fairness, if you enter a race and come last you get a medal, as it's the taking part thats important, what a load of shit.  Thats why we have all the whiners saying am not playing as it's not fair, I can't win, well thats tough, life is not fair.  Society is brainwashing these morons that everything should be all fair and even, most people of my generation don't give a shit, we were brought up in a way that allows us to deal with losing. 

When I walk down my local shop I know I could be stabbed, thats life, deal with it.  No matter how big and tough I am, if some chav sticks me in the back I am screwed.  And I want a game thats dangerous and realistic (as far as a fantasy game can be realistic ofc) Realistic in that the world is not run by fixed boundries, this is why WAR failed, they introduced the stupid chicking dynamic.  If it's a true MMORPG then there should be no rules at all other than making start zones safe so people can lvl up, after that though it should be all open and everyone keep yourt eyes open.  PvP and PvE server should be set up to make sure the people that cry can go PvE and the PvP guys like myself can quest in fun, gank or be ganked.

I too enjoy the idea of constant threat, unfortunately for me I am not very good at PvP (partly why this game interested me - if we're constantly PvP-ing I'm bound to get better right?). Because of this I do like to have some areas where it is PvE only so I can play and train up without fear of being completely destroyed by some guy 10 lvls higher than me (which also poses the question- what happens when you start a new character a few months after launch and everyone has got to lvl 50- won't you just get murdered?) 

I completely understand the punishment system in place but I was wondering - is there ANYWHERE that a player can go and not be attacked by players from the other faction (towns or something..?)

Originally posted by Spaceweed10

Originally posted by Soupism

Exactly. Most people who shout out "carebear" with any sort of disdain are usually an elitist flavor of the month type of juvenile. Not to say excessive whining isn't carebear or that there isn't a reason to use the term... but just snapping off with it as a knee jerk reaction is the quickest way to show your colors.

Typically it's a bully mentality that gives the impression of needing to show off, as opposed to a professional fighter who flat out doesn't care, will go 1v1 against anyone because well, that's what they do. True pvp'ers (not necessarily duelers) understand this and don't need to show disdain for a system they are comfortable with.

 

Whatever.  PvP comes in all shapes and sizes - learn to live with it, or go and play Tetris.

LOL hit a nerve did I? And yes, I "learned to live with it" as I like pvp. I'm just not one of those types that hang around chokepoints griefing people. I'd rather find you as an equal level (not really YOU although could be =P) and obliterate, or be obliterated. 1-2 levels, even 5, is fine. Not everyone is equal and I'm ok with that (like class balances is a failed argument imo) but I also detest bully tactics, especially when that player thinks they are good, or even cool. "i r pwned j00" bullshit.

Sir, we could turn that around and say that Pvp'ers won't be happy until thay can gank us while we are still creating our characters.

Good thing I'm playing the beta, or whatever it is, this weeken.  I am so not a PvPer.  If it gets in my way I'll know not to get a monthly subscription!

What happens when zergs of players levels 40-50 start marauding through the 20 zones? I shudder at the image of leveling brought to a complete stand-still for days on end in some areas and the balance of a server starts getting lopsided.