Aion Forum » General Discussion » Aion: Speed hack, DMG hack, flying hack...

You limit exposure so more people don't go looking for the program to hack themselves.

You ever watch that movie where the guy tortures/kills people online and the more people that view the website, the faster the person dies?

Kinda the same idea.  Internet anonymity brings out the worst in people. 

They know they have a problem, and I suspect they realize that a game that's heavily botted and hacked will have a short shelf life in  NA/EU.  Either they'll address the issue or they'll lose potential profits in the western market.  Most of the time when a company doesn't have an immediant response to something like this its because they don't have an answer to the problem.  Once they have that, they'll give a respnse.

Originally posted by Locklain

Originally posted by madeux

Perhaps NCSoft wants to deal with these things privately so as not to make it even more widely known, making the problem more widespread than it already is.  I've been downloading mp3's for 15 years, but most people only found out about it in the past 5-10 or so due to media reports, they had no idea how easy it was... so now everyone does it!

The statement in green is very true.  If it were not for the spread of information through the media and other forms of viral information most of the general public would remain ignorant to the problems and thus would not try and cheat the system themselves. 

The typical gamers know of hacking but most of them don't care enough to try or don't want to be caught doing it.  It is when people try to bring an issue to light, with explanations of how to do it, does it then get out of hand. 

Information wants to be free. It is the height of naivete to assert that hiding a security issue is the "correct" way to deal with the problem. You may google "security by obscurity" for both sides of this argument if you want, as it's been done to death years before this site even existed. The bottom line is, the correct way to fix a security problem is to actually fix it.

Who cares? Aion is an asian grinder with all the crap that follows it, be it botters/hackers and exploiters. They will run rampant in that game and will promptly and securly fuck the entire game up. It looks pretty though. There is a reason alot of people stay clear of asian rpg's. Been like that for years, even their offline counterparts is grindheavy to the extreme.

Nah, I prefer the western rpg's to be honest. Atleast there I don't have to check every bloody minute if I'm playing a dude who looks like a boy who looks like a girl and the girl who looks like a boy and on top of that, they both look the bloody same. Even more moronic in mmo's, even though western mmo's tend to copy it to some degree, not as extreme though. Females who might as well been naked and men who dress like the next iceage is upon them.

Ramble, mutter, grumble, complain, growl...I'll stop now.

Originally posted by slask777

Who cares? Aion is an asian grinder with all the crap that follows it, be it botters/hackers and exploiters. They will run rampant in that game and will promptly and securly fuck the entire game up. It looks pretty though. There is a reason alot of people stay clear of asian rpg's. Been like that for years, even their offline counterparts is grindheavy to the extreme.

And I'm sure the western game have none of that !!!   lol 

Get a grip dude. Or better yet open your eye's.

I agree with Daktar.

I absolutely can't stand it when someone thinks that the right way to address the problem is to delete forum entries and remove videos. Yes, I understand that these companies have a vested interest in ensuring that their customer base remains ignorant, but it's really an issue of principle.

The fact is that the same problem raises its ugly head in issues big and small. Using hacks is a small issue, but imagine if the issue were something like election fraud such as we're seeing in Iran. Iran is essentially doing the same thing that NCSOFT is doing. Iran is trying very hard to hide the problem without fixing it. If you can say that it's right for NCSOFT to hide the problem then it's really not a far leap to say that it's ok for the government of Iran to hide their problem. The truth, however, is that both NCSOFT and Iran are in the wrong.

Originally posted by stayontarget

Originally posted by slask777

Who cares? Aion is an asian grinder with all the crap that follows it, be it botters/hackers and exploiters. They will run rampant in that game and will promptly and securly fuck the entire game up. It looks pretty though. There is a reason alot of people stay clear of asian rpg's. Been like that for years, even their offline counterparts is grindheavy to the extreme.

And I'm sure the western game have none of that !!!   lol 

Get a grip dude. Or better yet open your eye's.

Compare it to western mmo's 'dude'. Asian mmo's run rampant with this crap, western does not. They do have it though but to a lesser degree.

There is a difference between hackers, botters and gold sellers.

While a botter uses a client side program (and the gold sellers profit from it), the OP talks about hacked stats.... server wise to manipulate combat.

This normally can't be hacked if the server security code is 100% proof.

Two possibilities here: or the stats changers are fake (I can think of the famous stats changer in Wow which was nothing more than a fraude "sold" by a Dutch website (how else) or NCSoft used some standard protection routine to block server access which is broken.

Always use proper and original protection routines to avoid it.

I am still not convinced the so called hacks are working serverwise (I mean changing combat stats). Changing client stats don't change the core mechnanics of the game itself and are trivial. A bot is a bot and won't change the interaction between players.

Just to clarify.

Have fun in Aion (I await your return in 6 months :))

What's there to return to?

This worries me alot about NcSoft, the bots ruined L2, which was a pretty decent game back in the time, now when they got a great game if they still cant handle the problem I dont see Aion being a succes anywhere outside Asia.

Gameguard was always useless and a few GMs banning a few each and there wont be able to control the problem.

They need to fix this by better coding or the game is screwed.

Ill repeat, NCsoft has already dealed with similar exploits in Korea, they delete videos on internet? Big fucking deal, why the hell do you want to upload them anyway? Is there any good intention behind uploading a video of someone hacking publicly?

Originally posted by Belsameth

Originally posted by mugengaia

NCsoft has not only abused its rights against customers by banning their accounts, they have also gone beyond their rights and starting banning innocent gamers for spreading what is FREE-SPEECH.

 

Free speech? May I remind you it's *THEIR* forum obn which *THEY* geyt to make the rules.

Don't get me wrong but, people are paying for the game and it's facilities. You would expect certain re-assurance if you pay for something.

Anyways .. it's sad to hear that NCSoft are banning frustrated legitimate players who are only trying to show them of the crisis at hand.

Why get so excited about it all. There is a very obvious set of solution. Most of the hacking is based on very simple t-search resident memory editing. Could be performed by a four-year old without? any significant difficulties.

Problem: Gameguard sucks and is easily bypassed by injectors.

Solution: Replace Gameguard with a proprietary hack shield.

AION will knock Warhammer and LOTR off the top spot and consistently stay in the top three MMO's

If that was so obvious, we wouldn't be seeing hacking on other games with proprietary anti-hacking mechanisms. For me it seems that:

• Rampant hacking is a major problem in PvP focused games
• Rampant botting in PvE focused games

I know, I'm over-generalising here and I'm wrong in more than one occasions, but there seems to be a trend.

Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

I used to get exicited over MMO releases but this is one of the main reasons I don't, and I never preorder or buy at launch anymore either. You are really only cheating yourself if you play something at launch.

 

The game will be broken, servers will have issues and if their are bugs/exploits/cheats they will be found quickly and delt with poorly, which adds the now I'm more pissed off since I worked hard and that guy just cheated to get there. However if you wait 2-3 months, there will be a free trial and no box purchase along with most of the major issues being delt with. Plus you will see what the overall feeling about the game is. Now you get to see if it is worth even trying and then get to try it for at least a couple weeks free to see if it is worth spending money on at all.

 

Stop paying the extra upfront cost and just wait to see if a game is reliable, but that being said I'm not surprised at all that huge issues exist in an NC Soft product.

Aion is not a new release its been out in korea for over 6 months now.

Originally posted by Khan187

Anyways .. it's sad to hear that NCSoft are banning frustrated legitimate players who are only trying to show them of the crisis at hand.

Posting a program weakness publicly on their forums isn't a way to help.  It's more like twisting the knife to make a bigger hole and allow more blood through.  Telling everyone else there's a way to do it will get them figuring it out.

The way to help is to pm an admin about the issue or contact support directly.  I can understand banning forum accounts that have the intention of spreading issues / causing problems.  They're protecting the game for the rest of the people that aren't yet affected by it.  It's a principle of contamination similar to stopping a virus. 

I find it absolutely amazing, i really do. One person comes onto the forums and cries wolf and 90% of you run screaming. Im not defending Aion or NCsoft or attacking them. However everything right now that is being discussed is pure speculation. We do not know the outcome of the NA/EU launch. We also do not know how much effort will be put to deal with bots/gold farmers/hackers/exploiters. You can all assume that it will be left alone and they will run rampant. However I have hopes that they will try and fix any issues, if not immediately..then with time. Until then all of you need to relax, and enjoy the game. Some of the trolls are in full swing it seems in this thread.

In the end Ill say this one more time, Play the game and see for yourself. Dont always beleive everything you read and hear.

P.S. Hacks could still exist at launch, however thats not the problem. The problem is whether the company will fix this or not, none of you here can comment that they will or wont. There is no but's or if's about it. Hacks exist in every software, get over it.

Originally posted by Wakygreek

I find it absolutely amazing, i really do. One person comes onto the forums and cries wolf and 90% of you run screaming. Im not defending Aion or NCsoft or attacking them. However everything right now that is being discussed is pure speculation. We do not know the outcome of the NA/EU launch. We also do not know how much effort will be put to deal with bots/gold farmers/hackers/exploiters. You can all assume that it will be left alone and they will run rampant. However I have hopes that they will try and fix any issues, if not immediately..then with time. Until then all of you need to relax, and enjoy the game. Some of the trolls are in full swing it seems in this thread.

 

In the end Ill say this one more time, Play the game and see for yourself. Dont always beleive everything you read and hear.

 

P.S. Hacks could still exist at launch, however thats not the problem. The problem is whether the company will fix this or not, none of you here can comment that they will or wont. There is no but's or if's about it. Hacks exist in every software, get over it.

 I agree with you 100%,  this discussion has turn into bash NCSOFT.  It is a shame there are companies which produce hacks and we all know there are hacks in every game out there.  Hell even DAOC still has hacks *which i quit again*  I am at a crossroads with MMORPG games.  I am going to give Aioin a try. 

 

I am only commenting on the OPs remarks. Others may have said what I am thinking but I'm waaaaay too lazy to read all the posts in this thread. Here's what I kinda know about the way the industry works around exlpoits. As easy as 1,2,3.

Step One: Plug the info gap. That means sticking closely to the letter of NDAs and EULAs guns and purging all in-game image capturing as all pix and live action footage (like ot or not) belongs to the company. They allow the non-offensive stuff but clamp down on the harmful.

Step Two: Deny, deny, deny. However they do it, either by giving the silent treatment or by minimizing the incidents or by out and out DENIAL! If and when they make a statement it's generally because they've finished step three.

Step Three: Find a quick work around. If it's an game changing exploit, then they usually jump right on it. That can mean months to fix the problem which could delay launches. Instead they usually find some way to diminish or eliminate the components being used in creating the exploit and behind the scenes continue to seek out a real answer.

NCSoft has been around to be a mature company and realize the problems of these exploits. Players may not see immediate changes but will probably have a work around in place by launch. I haven't played this game and I'm not associated with it in any way. This has been just a straight up observation of what I've seen devs do in response to things like this. In the end if you want to enjoy a game, don't be haters... be waiters.

Many are missing the major point here. OP is not talking about a beta version of the game. It is a retail/release version that's been out since last year. NCSoft has not been handling this problem for a long time and in Korean/Chinese release versions of the game bots and hacks are out in the open, as if they are not afraid at all.

This topic is brought up on the betaboards of Aion as well. Here's the statement of the GMs / devs there:

---

Allow me to make this as simple as I can for everyone. I'm a bit busy today so i'm going to keep this real short.

If you are found cheating in ANY capacity (botting, buying gold, exploiting, hacking et cetera), your account will be banned. There will be no warnings, no rehabilitation or second chances. That account will be closed, everything on it will be gone and the account will be utterly lost to you.

I hope this answers your question and concerns. You guys may hate this stuff but we hate it even more then you do whether you believe that or not.

---

---

First of it all, as said before, we have zero tolerance for any kind of cheating which includes bots, hacks and any other method people come up with to get an unfair advantage over other players who obey the rules.

Our team will take care of them and if there is a problem, we address it.

Then what you are discussing here are matters outside our western territory even though it has something to do with Aion it has little to do with feedback to our beta events or the game experience you have when playing here.

So don't get me wrong, we won't turn a blind eye on this and if these things happen on our servers we want you to let us know. However the sad thing with ways to cheat is that the more people know about it the more people will actually use them to their advantage. Instead of actually fighting the problem it's fuel on the fire in most cases.

This is why under normal circumstances I would probably remove this thread and ask you all to let our customer support or community managers know if you have proof or good information about those things happening and help us fighting them. You can believe me that we will fight them.

I will close this thread now as I believe that this discussion would not lead to any more constructive feedback. We've heard your concerns and we've made it clear that you've got our support if you find cheating players but please don't advertise this behaviour. In the future please understand if we might remove those threads, PM the person who claims to have solid information and hunt down the cheaters together.

Thank you for your understanding.

---

Something to consider...How much of NCSofts resources are going into redesiging the game for westers users (no one but NC knows) it is possible that they are short on resources with the NA/EU release comming up fast and a lot of their development team is working on the language, voice overs and general changes that are to be implemented for the NA release.  They have a relatively new game out in China and Korea and are porting it to the NA/EU audience you do not know how thin they are stretched and one can only speculate.  My point is that give them a chance to fix it if they dont you are free to move on to another game.  I will personally give them a few months after release to squash some of these issues I do not wish to have a repeat of L2 where botting was the only way to compete on the high end. It remains to be seen how NC will handle the release for NA/EU since it is not september i am willing to give it a shot if it turns out to be a botfest i will leave for other games there are always other games to play.

Originally posted by D|CE

 

Many are missing the major point here. OP is not talking about a beta version of the game. It is a retail/release version that's been out since last year. NCSoft has not been handling this problem for a long time and in Korean/Chinese release versions of the game bots and hacks are out in the open, as if they are not afraid at all.

I agree. My concern is with obvious security issues in released online games. The fact that these exploits exist in the first place is usually due to naive assumptions on the part of game designers (e.g. trusting the client with what should be server side computations). The existence of external economic forces which incentivize cheating in a game only exacerbates this issue. 

Given that players are really customers, and given that many service oriented companies live or die based on their customer relations, you would think NCsoft would be more direct and open with these issues. Again, the correct way to handle this is to fix the problem.

Personally, if I were running the show, I'd encourage hacking. I'd post a small reward for each hack found; to win you would not only have to demonstrate your hack but tell us how it's done. This is like paying consultants to help you, the wording is just slightly different.

Originally posted by Reizla

This topic is brought up on the betaboards of Aion as well. Here's the statement of the GMs / devs there:

 

---

Allow me to make this as simple as I can for everyone. I'm a bit busy today so i'm going to keep this real short.

 

If you are found cheating in ANY capacity (botting, buying gold, exploiting, hacking et cetera), your account will be banned. There will be no warnings, no rehabilitation or second chances. That account will be closed, everything on it will be gone and the account will be utterly lost to you.

I hope this answers your question and concerns. You guys may hate this stuff but we hate it even more then you do whether you believe that or not.

---

---

First of it all, as said before, we have zero tolerance for any kind of cheating which includes bots, hacks and any other method people come up with to get an unfair advantage over other players who obey the rules.

 

Our team will take care of them and if there is a problem, we address it.

Then what you are discussing here are matters outside our western territory even though it has something to do with Aion it has little to do with feedback to our beta events or the game experience you have when playing here.

So don't get me wrong, we won't turn a blind eye on this and if these things happen on our servers we want you to let us know. However the sad thing with ways to cheat is that the more people know about it the more people will actually use them to their advantage. Instead of actually fighting the problem it's fuel on the fire in most cases.

This is why under normal circumstances I would probably remove this thread and ask you all to let our customer support or community managers know if you have proof or good information about those things happening and help us fighting them. You can believe me that we will fight them.

I will close this thread now as I believe that this discussion would not lead to any more constructive feedback. We've heard your concerns and we've made it clear that you've got our support if you find cheating players but please don't advertise this behaviour. In the future please understand if we might remove those threads, PM the person who claims to have solid information and hunt down the cheaters together.

Thank you for your understanding.

---

 

This is exactly how I would expect a company to handle this.  For the most part, those complaining are people who are just looking for a reason to hate the game. 

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by Reizla

This topic is brought up on the betaboards of Aion as well. Here's the statement of the GMs / devs there:

 

---

Allow me to make this as simple as I can for everyone. I'm a bit busy today so i'm going to keep this real short.

 

If you are found cheating in ANY capacity (botting, buying gold, exploiting, hacking et cetera), your account will be banned. There will be no warnings, no rehabilitation or second chances. That account will be closed, everything on it will be gone and the account will be utterly lost to you.

I hope this answers your question and concerns. You guys may hate this stuff but we hate it even more then you do whether you believe that or not.

---

---

First of it all, as said before, we have zero tolerance for any kind of cheating which includes bots, hacks and any other method people come up with to get an unfair advantage over other players who obey the rules.

 

Our team will take care of them and if there is a problem, we address it.

Then what you are discussing here are matters outside our western territory even though it has something to do with Aion it has little to do with feedback to our beta events or the game experience you have when playing here.

So don't get me wrong, we won't turn a blind eye on this and if these things happen on our servers we want you to let us know. However the sad thing with ways to cheat is that the more people know about it the more people will actually use them to their advantage. Instead of actually fighting the problem it's fuel on the fire in most cases.

This is why under normal circumstances I would probably remove this thread and ask you all to let our customer support or community managers know if you have proof or good information about those things happening and help us fighting them. You can believe me that we will fight them.

I will close this thread now as I believe that this discussion would not lead to any more constructive feedback. We've heard your concerns and we've made it clear that you've got our support if you find cheating players but please don't advertise this behaviour. In the future please understand if we might remove those threads, PM the person who claims to have solid information and hunt down the cheaters together.

Thank you for your understanding.

---

 

This is exactly how I would expect a company to handle this.  For the most part, those complaining are people who are just looking for a reason to hate the game. 

We know how well the same company handled Lineage II.

Don't get me wrong, I really do hope that they will turn around and take an aggressive stance on hacking, cheating, etc but they have a track record with these things and it's not a very good one.

Their reliance and continuing support of Game"guard" also bothers me greatly. My fear is that Gameguard will create a false sense of security for upper management, who will in turn divert the resources needed to combat cheating towards something else.

I guess we'll find out soon enough.

The main concerns are...

1.  Sooner or later NCsoft will eventually provide server transfers in the Korean servers.  It isn't known when, but the speculation is, it will happen in the near future as they have provided the same service for other NCsoft titles in Korea.

2.  Why the server transfers will be a determining factor in whether or not Aion continues its success or fail miserably is due to the fact that there are alot of top Abyss Point ranking players who have been abusing hacks and exploiting the flaws in the game mechanics.

3.  How do I, and all other Korean Aion community of gamers know more than 75% of the top ranking Abyss PvPers are exploiting the game?  For example, each month AionInven releases an article on top ranking PvPers from all the servers.  It turns out, for the last couple months, more than half the top ranking PvPers are from the Arielle server (which is one of the new servers).  On average, these exploiters from Arielle server accumulate over 200k Abyss points each week, which logically is impossible unless you abuse the flaw in the system.  By flaw in the system, some run mulitple characters from both factions, or work out a plan to support one another (different faction). 

4.  This certain issue has been going on for months now, and Arielle server continues with endless exploiters, which according to accounts from players on Arielle server state, some & almost all of them use hacks and exploit glitches in the game. 

5.  As far as what NCsoft has stated concerning the abusers in the past, they will deal with them by returning Abyss Points to 0, and take away any acquired Abyss Gears.  So far, they have done nothing with the abusers running amok in Arielle server. 

6.  Should server transfers be offered in the near future with these abusers not handled properly, The balance in PvP will be ruined even further than at this point. 

  Some of you assume this hacking issue is only resent and people are over-exaggerating, however, there are numerous posts from the past on the Official Korean Aion Forums and other forums such as ThisIsGame and AionInven, where people explain that they have used the in-game GM messaging system and even called NCsoft to report of hackers and exploiters, but NCsoft has never taken any action.

  So really, trying to deal with an issue silently never has worked with NCsoft.  One of major reasons why majority of former Aion players in Korea have left the game for good, even before this whole hack debate started.  They have been dissappointed with NCsoft's customer service.

  Korean players have been paying money to play Aion and deserve better consideration than just lousy service.  Most companies have a code of conduct in workplaces for a reason.  Business isn't alawys about profit, going or not going beyond the boundaries of law, but about moral conduct and decency in principle.

  I could care less how and which loopholes NCsoft finds to cover up their mistakes each and everytime conflicting issues arise, but for a MMORPG company representing the Korean Online Gaming market, their actions are petty. 

  As for silence being the key to preventing chaos, in a country like Korea where the internet is a major part of society, and netizens (net-citizens) have a strong voice and immediate reaction, rumors will spread fast.  NCsoft is ultimately only ruining its image.

  For me, like I stated in the previous post, I quit for good, so this matter no longer directly or indirectly affect me. 

  We'll see how NCsoft handles the botters and hackers in the NA/EU versions.  If what the forum mod has explained stands true in the near future, congrats to NA/EU gamers.  But with a previous track record in L2, I'm sure many if not some, have doubts about NA NCsoft branch based in Austin Texas. 

  Only time will tell...I have no further comment since I have no credible authority to voice my opinion on the subject of a game I no longer play.