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Aion Column: Top 10 MMOs Since WoW
World of Warcraft changed the MMO landscape on November 23rd, 2004, but 174 MMOs have come out since that fateful day. We rank them.
By Dana Massey on October 13, 2009
World of Warcraft changed the way people look at MMORPGs when it launched on November 23rd, 2004. Since that time, according to our game list, 174 new MMOs have been launched and survive to this day. Of those launched prior to World of Warcraft, only 63 continue operation.
Sure, there are other games we have not listed yet (we’re working on it) and quite a few games have launches and died (I’m looking at you Tabula Rasa). I’m also suffering from some North American bias and only counting the games on this side of the pond.
Still, that’s a fantastic number of games in only five years that have either made it or – worst case – not died since WoW launched. Yet, despite the 174 new entries, not one has even flirted with a fraction of WoW’s success, let alone matched it critically or commercially.
What follows is purely my opinion and I looked over every game on our list with a launch date after WoW. There are some obvious omissions, so yes, if it's not there, I did consider it. I have done my best to include games of all types and not just those I necessarily personally enjoyed.
For some, it’s been a dark period for MMOs. Many hardcore forum posters and journalists, myself included, are often guilty of a bit of nostalgia. We tend to glorify the Dark Age of Camelots and the Ultima Onlines.
So today, I let this period in gaming stand on its own two feet. I’m setting aside every game launched before November 23rd, 2004 and running down my totally subjective ranking of the Top 10 MMOs Since WoW.
;)
#10 – Vanguard: Saga of Heroes (link)
Launched by SOE on January 30th, 2007, Vanguard has overcome a lot to snag the last spot on this list. It definitely didn’t do itself any favors out of the gate. It barely made it out the door. Amid development problems, SOE scooped it up after former publisher Microsoft dropped it and despite a strong ad campaign and some impressive initial box sales, the game just wasn’t strong enough to retain the initial flood of players.
Since then, SOE has quietly been working on Vanguard and worked to iron out the kinks that plagued it. The game’s performance has always been an issue, but time and diligent work by SOE have made it much less of a burden. It’s also not quite as hardcore as it was initially and has finally delivered on some of that massive hype and become a real treat for someone willing to give an MMO a second chance.
They pushed through and survived to be a decent title, if not the massive hit that had once been projected. Hopefully, for their sakes, list omissions like Warhammer Online and Age of Conan can eventually chart a similar course.
;)
#9 – Fallen Earth (link)
It’s tough to list a game that just launched a couple weeks ago, but Icarus Studios became one of the first independent American studios to launch a new game in quite some time. Fallen Earth has the deck stacked against it. It’s not fantasy. It’s not class based. It’s not traditional level driven. But what it is, at least so far, is a good bit of fun.
Will it succeed in the long term? Hard to say, but all indications are that Fallen Earth is off to a strong start. It has received vocal player support, a decent ranking on our MMORPG.com game list and what early reviews are in seem to be quite positive.
It offers players something different, which is rare on a list where almost every game you’re about to read about is fantasy. It’s set in a post-apocalyptic future, boasts a skill based system, and is one of the few true sandbox style MMOs out there.
;)
#8 – Atlantica Online (link)
Set to turn one just before Halloween, Atlantica Online from NDoors has emerged as one of the most solid free to play, imported MMORPGs in the Western market. The game is generally well translated and adapted to the North American audience and seems to have faired quite well.
Our game list is jammed with imported MMOs, but this one has capitalized on some innovative features, such as the ability to control up to eight NPC mercenaries, to set itself apart from the crowd.
It came third in our reader voting for 2008 Game of the Year and seemed to pick up far more awards after launch than before it, which is testament on its ability to deliver a quality product without a heck of a lot of hype. Right now, it ranks second on our Top Rated Launched MMOs list.
;)
#7 – Pirates of the Burning Sea (link)
Seattle’s Flying Lab Software put Pirates of the Burning Sea out quietly on January 22nd, 2008 and in nearly two years of commercial operation, the game has found its stride.
It may never take down WoW, but fans of a fully produced pirate experience have remained loyal and the game, like so many others, has really begun to find its sea legs after a few missteps.
The team recently announced the game’s first full – and free – expansion Power and Prestige and have diligently worked to shore up many of the generally issues that have plagued it since launch. They’ve reworked land combat entirely, for example.
;)
#6 – MapleStory (link)
One of only two 2D games on this list, Maple Story proves that it’s not all in how many polygons someone can stuff onto the screen.
Another imported game, and the second highest ranked one on this list, Maple Story hit North America on October 18th, 2005 and quietly transformed Nexon into one of the top players in the business of imported South Korean MMOs.
It is also the highest ranked purely micro-transaction supported game on the list.
Aimed at a generally younger audience, this side scroller employs many familiar MMO concepts like guilds, dungeon crawls, etc., but does it in a whimsical, offbeat way that has really hit home with a lot of players.
;)
#5 – Aion (link)
Like Fallen Earth, it’s tough to include a game that just snuck its way out the door, but Aion was already a hit before it came to North America.
NCSoft finally launched Aion on September 22nd, 2009, almost a year after it hit South Korea. It is the highest ranked imported MMO on this list.
Aion features high end graphics, flight as more than just travel, and a faction based PvP system that pits the demonic Asmodians against the angelic Elyos.
Its reviews have been solid, the localization top notch, and the fan response generally positive. As far as fully AAA MMOs go, this was easily the most successful game anyone has put out in a number of years.
Now, its 30 days in North America (the length of time someone who buys a boxed copy gets before they have to decide whether to subscriber) are not up, so maybe I’m jumping the gun, but all indications point to a strong product for NCsoft, who desperately needed some North American good news.
Time could deflate this rank, sure, but if I had to bet, I'd say it's only going to move up in the weeks and months to come.
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Granted it is a subjective list and everyone will have differing opinions on what should be on that list. BUT Club Penguin? I mean come on, no one in their right mind has ever heard of that game. Unless that was thrown in as a joke, you have completely lost it.
Is this a joke post?
WTF is Club Penguin ?
Good list. Except Club Penguin. Happy to see Guild Wars up there, I may not play anymore but It's still amazing.
$350 million dollars doesn't lie. When Disney puts that kind of money into a one-product company, it says something.
The game was a huge success, even if almost no one over the age of 16 plays it.
I didn't say it was a rank of the Top 10 Traditional MMOs, or Hardcore MMOs, etc.
EQ2 launched prior to WoW.
Yet the wildly popular, among kids anyway, free worlds or the cartoon network one are nowhere to be found. Bleh
who said that lol
Neither had the success of Club Penguin. Free Realms is somewhat struggling from all accounts. Great initial numbers, very little retention. Same for FusionFall. I considered both.
P.S. To Daft: Fair enough.
History.
EQII launched on November 8th, 2004. WoW launched on November 23rd of the same year.
Given the entire premise of the article was "games launched since WoW," it would have been silly to include EQII... even if it was only a couple weeks before it.
Neither had the success of Club Penguin. Free Realms is somewhat struggling from all accounts. Great initial numbers, very little retention. Same for FusionFall. I considered both.
I think this is a very sound list, and well-researched. I think some MMORPG.com forumites can be quite myopic when it comes to the MMO industry. I'm rather curious though why Vanguard made the list and not, say Warhammer or Age of Conan..not that I've played either of them. While none of the three lived up to their hype, Warhammer at the least wasn't a failure at launch.
Mind, I find the other less prominent selections for your list less bothersome which says a lot about Vanguard really.
As far as the Free realms and Cartoon network online stuff goes I think a lot of the problem is that they were trying to get kids into a subcription based game and not a lot of parents are into paying subcriptions.
Sure they will buy the kid a game box but for some reason most will not take out a gaming subcription.
WAAAY back when when Runescape was my intro to mmos and they made the members version of the game I noticed right away after subcribing that the population was about 90% teens and adults.
The preteens were by and large stuck back in the add powered f2p model. I had a few friends (RL friends) who were in their teens that used mom or dads credit card with their permission using their own money. But none of THEIR younger frinds could convince mom and dad to spring for a $5 a month memebership.
When I tried the games(cartoon network and free realms) I found both of them to have far from fluid controls (Especially the much hyped Kart racing in free realms)
Interesting list but I really think Fallen Earth and Aion are just too new to be here-give them a quarter year at least!
What were #11 and 12?
I never did play Pirates of the Burning sea, but I think I might give the trial a shot.
I also considered that same thing with those two new games. Ultimately, I decided to include them, but I wavered on that until the last second. In the end, given commercial success was not my primary measurement, I figured it was OK to put them in.
Basically, I went through the list post-WoW and made a giant list. That included every game on there, plus a few more. From that, I picked 10.
The other games I had briefly considered were: Habbo, Dofus, Silkroad Online, Age of Conan, Free Realms, Mabinogi, Champions Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Runes of Magic, Darkfall and Warhammer Online.
To be clear, that doesn't mean I truly was going to put them on. Just that they popped out at me as I was browsing through.
Runes of Magic and Silkroad were likely 11 and 12, if I had to label it.
Sadly, the top 10 MMOs since WoW hasn't quite lived up to our expectations. I doubt any of these games even rival EQ numbers in its prime.
numbers don't always = good game
Lotro is the perfect example...i doubt it has more than 700k subs but its a damn fine game (and no1 on this list)
First off, LotRO deserves that #1 spot
With that aside, I pretty much agree with tho whole list but I do think EQ2 should be up there. I know i launced about 2 weeks before WoW but it wasnt ready. SoE learned a lot and worked hard on their game to make it where it is today (kinda like Vanguard imo). I think EQ2 could have been a notible exception given it is right there with WoWs launch
That's the expected result when you flood the market with MMOs in an ultra-fast pace, as it has been post-WoW, only the truly fun or addictive ones will retain enough users to be called big and survive, the challenge of subscription MMOs... or generate enough money, the challenge of F2P MMOs that is potentially easier (and that's the reason you see them being the "huge majority" of the MMOs in all these 174, but only 4 made it into this top 10).
However, they will never (or really really few, who knows for how long) touch the great subscription numbers of the past, much less the WoWesque numbers.
LOTRO doesnt have 3.5 million subs in Asia like Aion does. Hell Aion even has surpassed the game in West since release, so why isnt Aion considered number 1? All the numbers suggest it should be.
I also considered that same thing with those two new games. Ultimately, I decided to include them, but I wavered on that until the last second. In the end, given commercial success was not my primary measurement, I figured it was OK to put them in.
Basically, I went through the list post-WoW and made a giant list. That included every game on there, plus a few more. From that, I picked 10.
The other games I had briefly considered were: Habbo, Dofus, Silkroad Online, Age of Conan, Free Realms, Mabinogi, Champions Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Runes of Magic, Darkfall and Warhammer Online.
To be clear, that doesn't mean I truly was going to put them on. Just that they popped out at me as I was browsing through.
Runes of Magic and Silkroad were likely 11 and 12, if I had to label it.
dofus might not be big in usa ,but in the success ,they still rake in ton of money way more then vanguard
dofus is a bit more succesfull then eq2 a bit ,about 500k player pay each month ,oh they advertise 1 million or 1.3 if i recall but the average right now that pay to play dofus is 500 k wich is way bigger then vanguard
for the rest your probably very close to be on the money
yep eq2 is popular it follow dofus in term of paying player right now,but it was released way before wow lol
Great list. If nothing else it superbly illustrates a genre lacking a sense of direction.
Ken
I also considered that same thing with those two new games. Ultimately, I decided to include them, but I wavered on that until the last second. In the end, given commercial success was not my primary measurement, I figured it was OK to put them in.
Basically, I went through the list post-WoW and made a giant list. That included every game on there, plus a few more. From that, I picked 10.
The other games I had briefly considered were: Habbo, Dofus, Silkroad Online, Age of Conan, Free Realms, Mabinogi, Champions Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Runes of Magic, Darkfall and Warhammer Online.
To be clear, that doesn't mean I truly was going to put them on. Just that they popped out at me as I was browsing through.
Runes of Magic and Silkroad were likely 11 and 12, if I had to label it.
Why didnt you consider Perfect World it has 3-4 time as many players as WoW. I mean i hate the game but it better and alot more successful then some game you put on the list.
This is a very poor article.
- If you are going to include the casual titles like Club Penguin, maple Story they have to be number one and two on the list as they are far, far, far more successful than any serious adult MMO. They don't belong on the list though.
- Vanguard over Warhammer and Age of Conan...that is just laughable to me, even now it is still poor compared to those (admitedly flawed themselves) games
- Wizard 101? Really? From what I can tell next to no-one plays that game more than once, the may have had two million try it or whatever and its fun in a light way, but like CP and MS it is a kids game and didn't belong on this list.
- Aion and Fallen Earth? again...really? If you judge a game after the reception after two weeks Age of Conan or Warhammer would have topped the list
- If you include Fallen Earth how can you not include Champions Online? It has better production values, is just has fun, has more players playing it. While it is certainly 'more of the same', objectively it is as good a game as Fallen Earth.
- LOTRO is a decent game, but also one of the most formulaic and mundane launched since WoW, certainly not top of my list.
- I could accept an argument for Guild Wars being top of the list, not my personal taste, but that understand, it is well made, well balanced and popular.
This just seems like a cheap attempt to be a little sensationalist and generate debate with a deliberatly flawed list.
LOTRO doesnt have 3.5 million subs in Asia like Aion does. Hell Aion even has surpassed the game in West since release, so why isnt Aion considered number 1? All the numbers suggest it should be.
Because
1) It was stated that this is heavily BIASED to the WESTERN market.
2) Its not all about numbers. I dont know much about Aions gameplay because reading/hearing about it isnt enough and I havent played it, but from what I've heard its not "amazing" and the numbers wont stay where they are. I think it will begin to drop.
yep eq2 is popular it follow dofus in term of paying player right now,but it was released way before wow lol
Everquest 2 Launched on November 8th, 2004 and WoW launched on November 23rd, 2004 . This is 16 days before WoW launched. As stated before, I think its close enough to make a notible exception, maybe not count it in the list but give it some kind of Honorable Mention.
The only thing I've noticed about your top 10 list post WoW is that none of them are actually anything to rave about. With the exception of Guild Wars, they are all....bleh.
LOTRO doesnt have 3.5 million subs in Asia like Aion does. Hell Aion even has surpassed the game in West since release, so why isnt Aion considered number 1? All the numbers suggest it should be.
Aion doesnt have 3.5 million subs in Asia either... Nobody knows what that number is based on.
LotrO is actually launching in China and have had 3 million beta testers. Maybe we should use that number aswell?
Good list but I miss DDO up there. If horrible games like Vanguard and Potbs is up there I see no reason not to include DDO, RoM or WAR.
In your opinion of course.
Here's mine.
1. Guild Wars
2. Lotro
3. Darkfall
4. Runes of Magic
5. Vanguard
6. Atlantica
7. Fallen Earth (To new to list properly but better than WAR/AoC)
8. Aion (To new to list properly but better than WAR/AoC)
9. WAR
10.AoC
Honorable mentions : Mabinogi, DDO, TCoS, Requiem, Free Realms
Well, interesting list and good PR for LotRO.
It did do a good job putting the genre into perspective for me though.
The "Why do I still bother paying attention to these kind of websites anymore" perspective.
This is the best you lot of game designers can do... really?
Edit: I don't mean it as a knock on gaming websites. I just mean that none of the games have really been what I would consider exceptional in any regard.
Developers are making what the masses want, unfortunately the masses only want it when it is in a WARCRAFT skin.
Time for developers to start looking at some niche markets and attempt to diversify the market, rather than continue to clone it.
Usually I rarely agree with metalhead but this is definitely an exception. The list he mentioned is far sounder than one listed int he article.
Personally I have litle like and sympathy for POTBS, AoC and WAR. However to name POTBS, a crappy imbalanced second hand title surviving on SOE's Station Pass as one of top 10 MMOs after WoW is mind boggling. To add insult to injury SOE's own Vanguard is listed as number ten. Both of this games above and beyond WAR and AoC, as messed up and these are they are still leaps and bounds above POTBS & VG. For crying out loud VG is only semi playable and just for a good measure I can play WAR and AoC on my computer but cannot play VG due to hitching, lag and FPS going from 10 to 60 in open field with nothing around and for no apparent reason.
With all due respect but the list looks like it is badly biased in favour of SOE. Honestly I cannot see the main article as anything but a marketing piece for few walking disasters mixed by whim with few decent titles.
It boggles my mind each time I see LOTRO on any list. Why you ask, well they continually take a dump on their customer base. You should see the forums. The latest move wich changing pricing plans to keep costmers retention. Really no fan sites set up for this. The entire radiance grind and how they are totaly ignoring the casual player and becoming more wow like every day.
And yes were is EQ2, and why is it not on the list.
Fallen Earth was just released, and I am playing it, but honestly it is way too new yet to see if its going to live. I will say this it already has fan sites.
Other than that interesting list.
Interesting list, there is an evident stagnation in the mmo genre illustrated by all the candidates so few games offer 'ANYTHING' new over what has gone before, I simply can't believe we have already seen the ultimate mmo. Hopefully the story and world bias that games like APB, DCUO and Star Wars Old Republic claim to prioritse (assuming they deliver) will be the shot in the arm the industry needs to begin to evolve again.
Because it was pre WoW.
Penguin, Wizard XX and Maple Story is on the list but Champions Online is not?
Disgraceful! It is an innovative game based on Super Heroes and an open ended skill/powersystem that deserved to be on the list. The list seem to be terribly biased towards fantasy MMORPGs.
And LOTRO as number 1? I have read the books but apparently you have not if you put that lightweight-casual MMORPG as number 1.
LOTR is anything but casual and lightweight. He created a new frigging language for pitys sake.
Am I the ONLY one that noticed the following:
"It’s tough to list a game that just launched a couple weeks ago, but Icarus Studios became one of the first independent American studios to launch a new game in quite some time. Fallen Earth has the deck stacked against it. It’s not fantasy. It’s not class based. It’s not level based. But what it is, at least so far, is a good bit of fun."
Really? Are you sure? Did something change in the last 10 mins?
$350 million dollars doesn't lie. When Disney puts that kind of money into a one-product company, it says something.
The game was a huge success, even if almost no one over the age of 16 plays it.
I didn't say it was a rank of the Top 10 Traditional MMOs, or Hardcore MMOs, etc.
Yeah it says that Disney as company has more money than taste. It does not say that the game is a good MMORPG.
Heck even you admit that almost no one over age of 16 plays it. Seeing as the average age of an MMORPG player is in the upper twenties, that in itself should disqualify it as it targets an extreme nisch part of the MMORPG audience.
Personally I think Lord of the rings online should be up there.
I also object to a game being put up there when it has not been out for longer than 3 months (ie. Aion). I remember similar hype to Aion with several other games and all dropped in population.
What about Lineage 2? The game still has over 1 Million Subs World Wide. It basicaly invented the Korean Grinder.
Lineage 2 is not even close to inventing the Korean grinder... Simple logic alone would say that Lineage 1 had a better chance of having that title.
Going to have to agree with some of the other posters..
Warhammer Online and Age of Conan should have been on this list as well.
Even though I am a fan of FE and Aion, these 2 should have not made the cut this early.
Lineage 2 is not even close to inventing the Korean grinder... Simple logic alone would say that Lineage 1 had a better chance of having that title.
It's amazing how people lack reading comprehension. He's states in the beginning of the article:
I’m also suffering from some North American bias and only counting the games on this side of the pond
So world wide subs is irrellevant. L2 is not significant in NA so it shouldn't be on the list. Why Fallen Earth (and to a lesser extent Aion) is on the list when they haven't even been out beyond 30 days is confusing. Vanguard on the list but not Warhammer is almost comical.
The problem with lists is it's always someone's opinion.
I agree with the original article and everyone who posted. All of your opinions are valid and correct, as you see them.
I am very surprised to see that Final Fantasy XI Online was not mentioned.
It may not be the best mmorpg of all time, but it has been around a log time and set quite a few standards.
Whats you comment on this?
Except ofcourse that the game has been released for quite a while in Asia and is a massive success.
Also note that Aion has the second highest rating on XFire for MMORPGs and have had that rating for a consecutive 22 days. All other hyped games (such as AoC, WAR) steadily lost numbers just after a couple of weeks.
I think it's probably because FFXI was launched like half a year or so before WoW. This list is only games after WoW. :)
That being said, I've played a ton of different MMOs. And I agree that LotRO deserves the #1 spot. LotRO and EvE are the only two games I consider to be in the same tier as WoW. All others are second-class games, though still often fun in their own right.
Quote from High Fidelity - "Very nice, Rob. A sly declaration of new classic status slipped into a bunch of safe ones- very pussy!"
Nuff Said
Interesting list. I don't totally agree with it but I respect your opinion.
I agree with some other posters that AoC and Warhammer deserve a top 10 spot instead of Vanguard and Club Penguin despite their issues.
The 2nd paragraph of the LOTRO blurb starts off: "World of Warcraft is an MMO player’s MMO..." Pretty sure that you did not mean World of Warcraft there ;)
Yep, an error. Kind of.
It's a game that doesn't confine people to classes and has a more open skill system, but it also has quantifiable levels, if not in the exactly traditional sense of the word. I've tweaked that sentence to be more accurate.
*cough* You saw nothing! :) Thanks.Aion on Xfire has at least a 100 % error rate sample.
Proof: EVE has a confirmed 300K subcriptions. Aion shows 3.5 times the number of EVE on Xfire.
NEVER has Aion a possible 1.2 million players in the west after 1 week.
Proof they started with 400K at release (within one week US and one week later EU) ...You can see that on the Xfire chart.
Aion now has32 NA/EU servers. Just enough to hold on to that 400K.
So the sampled base of Xfire for Aion is simply over represented. Big chance it's due to the 5K Gold sellers who promote the game by logging through Xfire.
Quite easy to see and caluculate yourself.
BTW even though the Xfire samples for Aion are way off comapred to other games:
IN the game itself there is already an Xfire drop of around 20% in its first two weeks. That's two weeks before subscriptions set in ...
Its almost as If you copy and paste the same response over and over and over again.
What do you do think of something witty and keep pasting the shit?
Most of us understood you the first time you posted that, do you have anything to offer the OP? or do you just paste that shit for overall post #?
What you do is considered spamm.
Lotro diservs the 1. place. I agree with this list.
Originally posted by Ozmodan
"Granted it is a subjective list and everyone will have differing opinions on what should be on that list. BUT Club Penguin? I mean come on, no one in their right mind has ever heard of that game. Unless that was thrown in as a joke, you have completely lost it."
I actually have heard of and played club penguin, because of my twelve year old sister. I can assure that it is quite popular amongst its target audience.
Like he clearly states, this game is aimed at 6-14 year olds, and I don't know anyone in that age group with a decent internet connection and who lives in the US who hasn't heard of Club Penguin.
I don't, but that is neither here nor there as this is the
"Top Ten MMO's since World of warcarft" according to Dana. So her list is for her and not for anyone else really.
This is evident from the statement "What follows is purely my opinion and I looked over every game on our list with a launch date after WoW"
I may have missed it in the posts following, but it is clearly missing from the article as to what Dana based her opinion on.
Dana, could you please enlighten us.
Thanks,
Its almost as If you copy and paste the same response over and over and over again.
What do you do think of something witty and keep pasting the shit?
Most of us understood you the first time you posted that, do you have anything to offer the OP? or do you just paste that shit for overall post #?
What you do is considered spamm.
I answered to someone who said that Aion has the second most rated MMO on Xfire.
And I clearly showed with EVE subs (300K) that the Aion sample is not a correct sample on Xfire. Aion can simply not have 3.5 more players than EVE in the west atm.
Never hurts to point out the flaws in someone's reasoning....
Unless there is a fundamental counter agrument why shouldn't I point out the obvious flaw in his reasoning.?
Zorn you and I both know your a troll, you post for one reason only to piss people off.
I don't mind trolls because I come from the same family but please for the love of all that is holy!!!! Stop pasting the same responses over and over!!!
Change it up man this forum is supposed to be entertaining, its come to the point of me knowing exactly what your going to type before I even read your post.
Seriously.
There is no fundamental reasoning behind this statement.
And dont come with the 400k number, because that's from online preorders alone and doesnt count post release sales.
lol at this list....
I don't, but that is neither here nor there as this is the
"Top Ten MMO's since World of warcarft" according to Dana. So her list is for her and not for anyone else really.
This is evident from the statement "What follows is purely my opinion and I looked over every game on our list with a launch date after WoW"
I may have missed it in the posts following, but it is clearly missing from the article as to what Dana based her opinion on.
Dana, could you please enlighten us.
Thanks,
His opinion ;)
But anyway, it was as the article said entirely my opinion. I personally put more value on good reviews, high rating meter scores and general (albeit anecdotal) tone of the community than I did on guesses at subscriber numbers, but in a few cases, business also came into play when this community wasn't exactly the target audience (Wizard and Penguin).
The list is a weekly opinion column. So that's what you got. There's nothing scientific about this. I largely modeled it after sports power rankings, if that makes sense, although I don't intend to revise the list every week :)
Indeed,
"They pushed through and survived to be a decent title, if not the massive hit that had once been projected. Hopefully, for their sakes, list omissions like Warhammer Online and Age of Conan can eventually chart a similar course."
This is the conclusion from the Vanguard piece, implying that in someway VG tops AoC and WAR.
I have played all 3 titles and i find it hard to comprehend how AoC is not better in every single aspect of the game, from launch state, to content, to innovation, to graphics, to population, to development, infact every aspect.
And then to suggest that AoC can eventually chart a similar course to VG, when they are way ahead of them in the first place takes the biscuit imho!! But then again this is just someone's opinion and it is impossible to argue with that, even though majority can see that the opinion is wrong.
I find this subscriber talk funny.
For over four years now we've been saying subs dont matter and you cannot range quality by the amount of people playing it.
We used Mcdonalds and boy band references to prove that most popular doesnt equal better.
So here comes Aion it is semi popular and thats all we hear "3.5 million subs" "400k pre-orders!" Please! explain yourself, let the game stand on its own without doing what the WoW fanbois did forever (linking sub totals).
Most of the Aion fans are just hypocrites, they took a shit all over WoW fans for the sub talk and now they use it themselves.
We even have someone saying Aion should be number one due to subs lol.
it's pathetic.
Indeed,
"They pushed through and survived to be a decent title, if not the massive hit that had once been projected. Hopefully, for their sakes, list omissions like Warhammer Online and Age of Conan can eventually chart a similar course."
This is the conclusion from the Vanguard piece, implying that in someway VG tops AoC and WAR.
I have played all 3 titles and i find it hard to comprehend how AoC is not better in every single aspect of the game, from launch state, to content, to innovation, to graphics, to population, to development, infact every aspect.
And then to suggest that AoC can eventually chart a similar course to VG, when they are way ahead of them in the first place takes the biscuit imho!!
When did you play Vanguard, if you don't mind me asking?
Zorn thats not true at all, you flame people and go out of your way to upset players that arent fans of WoW.
How many times have you tried baiting Eve fans with that same stupid Craftable helicopter post? 20? 30 times?
How many times have we read the same Xfire post with Eve and lotro as sub examples?
If your going to troll people switch up the material please.
At least other trolls are entertaining, your posts are annoying to read.
Im being honest with you, sorry if it bothers you.
Any top 10 list that would put Vanguard in it. I would have to disagree with. Sorry
despite their shortcomings Warhammer and maybe AoC should be on that list over Vanguard and FE.
The game has 18EU/14NA servers.
In Korea it has now 43 servers for 400K subs.
At launch in China it had 113 servers for 1M players in its first week.
The activity graph on Aion Xfire shows NO 3.5x increase in its first 10 days past launch. So clearly the reasoning is sound.
The game is around 400K/500K active western players. Backed up by the total number of servers.
The samples of Aion Xfire are simply off compared to other mmo's like Eve, Wow, Lotro.
That's all we can see.
Keep pulling info out of your ass.
The responses in this thread show how really out of touch people on this site really are.
When did you play Vanguard, if you don't mind me asking?
btw sorry for the "her" reference.
I played VG a year after release and then again recently after the trail was released and the graphic engine was sorted out(although slight hitching remained). And I am a fan of VG don't get me wrong.
So I believe i have seen it in its best state. And it has taken nearly 3 years (i may be wrong) to get to his stage. It has 3 to 4 devs working on it and the progress is slow, it doesn't even have alternative advancement properly implemented into it yet!
There exists some rudimentary sliders for Int, wis, str, etc which would make some classes different, but my main char was a rogue and given these sliders, every single rogue in VG is exactly the same, save their armor. This is an RPG, i want my char to be slightly different to the next man's char but alas we are still waiting, and given the 3 man team the wait is going to be long!
AoC has population, i am not talking about Xfire, as i don't even know what that does, i am talking about my direct experience, I know for a fact that VG has low pops and is set in a massive land, whereas AoC has a decent pop where PUGs are easily come by.
So in my opinion, VG is a great game but fails on the two aspects that make up an MMORPG, the MMO referring to Massive amount of people playing, VG=fail, or at least it feels like fail given the landscape, and the lack of class customisation lets the role playing down bit badly, AoC passes these two basic criteria easily...........imo.
Others may have different experiences, i like both games, and as such tell it as i see it.
Noted the criteria you used to compile the list, it may have been beneficial to include these in a side note of the article to avoid any confusion.
Its almost as If you copy and paste the same response over and over and over again.
What do you do think of something witty and keep pasting the shit?
Most of us understood you the first time you posted that, do you have anything to offer the OP? or do you just paste that shit for overall post #?
What you do is considered spamm.
I answered to someone who said that Aion has the second most rated MMO on Xfire.
And I clearly showed with EVE subs (300K) that the Aion sample is not a correct sample on Xfire. Aion can simply not have 3.5 more players than EVE in the west atm.
Never hurts to point out the flaws in someone's reasoning....
Unless there is a fundamental counter agrument why shouldn't I point out the obvious flaw in his reasoning.?
The fundamental counter argument is that XFire is not limited to gamers in the west, as you assumed. So Aion having 1+ million subcribers worldwide could very much be how it is.
You even admit the gold sellers who, being gold sellers or not, are subscribing to the game.
The only MMO that I can think of that should be on the list is Dungeon and Dragons Online. It seems to have become popular since it's now free to play.
Vanguard got the nod over WAR and Conan in my mind as a kind of "most improved" prize. I think of the three, mostly due to amount of time passed, it has made the most improvements.
All three had eerily similar launches.
Conan is improving, as is WAR, but both still have a ways to go. Vanguard, though, seems to have found its stride.
DDO was a strange one. Turbine themselves gave up on the "original" game so it would be a bit much to include that. The new game is pretty new and while I realize so are FE and Aion, perhaps it is a personal blind spot, but I have less of a read on how the new DDO is doing.Good list Dana. I agree with LoTRO being #1, but why is Club Penguin, Wizard101, Aion and Fallen Earth up there?
Good list. The only game i may not have put up there is maple story, but thats an iffy.
(AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH give plunger salute to Dana)
Good list, but i think it's missing at least one entry since you've listed some kids oriented games
Free Realms.
As for Vanguard, i personally don't think it should be on any list. It's still a failure in my book, and frankly WAR is a bigger success then it even though WAR is not all that right now.
Also not on the list, but i agree since oyu say since is Everquest 2. Since well it did release a WHOLE month before (should still have made the list :))
I think this article should be called top 10 MOST POPULAR MMOs since WOW. Cause there are lot of quality games out there not mentioned in article
Dana:
Really, you should not even consider games with subscription models that have not even had 2 months to gauge their success. You said yourself that being newly launched it is perhaps a bad idea to include them. I agree it is a bad idea. Age of Conan and Warhammer both launched with huge sales numbers, but after 3 months those numbers plummeted.
From a purely technical perspective MMOs with less than 3 months under their belts should not be listed. Even if it is an opinion peace; putting games that have not proven themselves lessens your credibility in my eyes. Come on man, you should know better. I would have respected the article more had Warhammer and AoC been up there. At least they've had a year or more to really show what they got. Aion and FE could possibly, and I believe they will, turn out as flavor-of-the-month games.
Personally I see Aion failing to meet NCSoft's expectations over here, because, if the rumblings I'm hearing over here in are true, Wetern audiences never adopt games which force group activity and grinding down the player's collective throats.
I am also surprised you haven't listed Champions Online. Despite some controversy between the developers and the players it has been well received, and based on your anecdotal process it should have made the list. At least it has been out for longer than 30 days.
*as an aside*
Anyone who thinks AoC should make this list should consider the community that game fosters. Never has more blatant disregard for other players been more prevalent to make people quit before really finding out what the game has to offer. I played it 3 months at launch and then again over this summer, and never have I been insulted and troll baited more often in any other game than AoC. It doesn't take rocket surgery to see that game is just a cesspool of players whom like to grief others and flaunt their supposed, unfounded, superiority over others. Based on the exposure of the community alone I would place this game on the worst 10 MMOs since WoW's launch.
At least when I got greifed in WoW it was done with respect to the person (i.e: waited until I at least killed what I was fighting before jumping me)
If this is the best mmos we have out there since WoW then we now all should understand why mmos have been failing. Lotro #1, are you kidding ? When Lotro launched nothing else was out and it plays almost no different than WoW. This list just shows how the quality of mmos have been in decline over the years. Oh and Guild Wars is not a mmo, its a CORPG (cooperative online roleplaying game), still glad it is there though!
So you give LOTRO the top spot eh?
:: rips off Dana's rubber mask ::
MR BLOODWORTH!! I knew it was you!!
i think the interwebs would have exploded from troll if he included wither WAR or AoC in the list. A fair few cities would have been taken out from combusted nerdrage aswell, it just wouldn't have been worth it.
Club penguin :o
I think you are not seing the real picture behind it. The IP was bought because one day, Disney will bring out a show based on it. The concept of club penguin is what sells but the game itself is... well seriously, bad.
I do agree with Maple Story but in my own opinion, everything that Nexon has brought out is worth to be on the list. Mabinogi for it's features and unique gameplay, Combat Arms for bringing back old school in a new sophisticated way...
Ijji, Nexon, ND are top
My top five would be as follows:
1. LOTRO
2. AION
3. GW
4. VANGUARD
5. FALLEN EARTH
Those other games on the list i could not care less about. they were mostly f2p games for 10 year olds imo.
I agree completely, which is why I never bought into LOTRO.
As several other people have indicated, Guild Wars belongs at the top of this list.
I agree completely, which is why I never bought into LOTRO.
As several other people have indicated, Guild Wars belongs at the top of this list.
Its pure Hyperbole, but. Ok.
I guess by "Continuialy dump on the playerbase" he means; "Add more content and features for free then any other MMO on the market", and, "Continuously offer the best deal in MMO gameing by price, and solid gameplay and free content".
Its sad to see that Runes of Magic didnt make the list. The game is AAA Quality and holds its own. Its just an opinion but RoM should have been on the list some were. Most of the player base has came from WoW or GW and the community is great. The game play is awesome and they are not short on updates and new things coming out. With the reworked Sounds and added graphics the game is visually impressive. The dual class system allows endless options of combos. The F2P aspect helps for those who have time and no money to invest into the game.
As far as i know RoM is MMO's Best kept secret :)
rofl that was like 500k max im sure most of em reached that already
I disagree with you comments.
The only way you could consider that Vanguard was the "most improved" is because it did not even run at launch.
Which is far far from the case of AoC and WAR which nullifies your statement that
"All three had eerily similar launches."
AoC is not improving, it has improved, far far more than Vanguard in a much shorted period of time, and it is well known that AoC is the most improved and fixed game, check here for an example.
Further to the above a trial for AoC was out earlier this year which can be taken as a test of confidence FUNCOM have in AOC, as is the free trail for Vanguard, only that Aoc's free trail came out within a year after launch and vanguards over 2 years.
With your above comments i have to ask you when was the last time you played AoC?
As the information you have on it seems slightly outdated! Which inturn jeopardizes your whole review!!
Here is the secret. It is no secret. It isn't madly popular because frankly it is the only true wow clone. It copied almost everything from WoW. Sure you got dual classes with all those combos but well only a few are very good. There are standard cookie cutter builds just like it every game.
Woah woah woah, first 1up's review of Aion and now this article with LotrO at #1 ... can't beleive people are finally getting things right ! Good read , though Aion doesn't belong there.
Here is the secret. It is no secret. It isn't madly popular because frankly it is the only true wow clone. It copied almost everything from WoW. Sure you got dual classes with all those combos but well only a few are very good. There are standard cookie cutter builds just like it every game.
Still should have made the list.
2mil users in less then a year from launch.
look at the games that have launched since WoW and tell me how theres really anything better than Aion or LOTRO.
I would have to agree with lotro being the most successfull since WoW. More or less it has probably held the most amount of playerbase.
I was dissapointed to not see warhammer online on this list though!
I bet someone from Blizzard reads this article and the forum responses and then only has one thing to say:
Hail to king baby!
useful list.
rofl that was like 500k max im sure most of em reached that already
Other than the F2P you'd be wrong. Funny, that you think LOTRO has that many when its a ghost town.
can't really say that even though gw isn't an mmorpg it still has a larger player base than lotro.
Are YOU kidding????? Where the f... is Age of Conan? And seriously i didn't even hear half of the games on this list!! If you made the list just to wake up the discussion you made it!
Its pure Hyperbole, but. Ok.
I guess by "Continuialy dump on the playerbase" he means; "Add more content and features for free then any other MMO on the market", and, "Continuously offer the best deal in MMO gameing by price, and solid gameplay and free content".
More free content surely you jest. The only content we gotten lately that was really free was the hampster wheel of death repeatable bounty quests. The rest was suposed to be delivered with MOM. The rest we have to buy with the adventure pac, no free in that.
Dana, is the only way you get people to view / reply to your articles to type stupid or controversial things? Really, Club Penguin? Guild Wars isn't even an MMO.
In my opinio this list is absolutely rigth i alredy played WOW,WAR,LOTRO,ROM and now Aion
From this 5 games the one that i enjoyed more playing was Lotro but by far... the only reason im playing aion now is that in my country, you can only find, time cards in 1 mall because the others like (fnac ex.) only care about wow timecards xD
So all im saying is that i played all this 5 and i loved by far lotro.
P.S: LOTRO 10-days-trial is realy different from the retail vers. and if you donwloaded the shortest trial, it's even more different ... so don't ilude your self...
Thanks =D
You read and replied, you tell me? :P
Its pure Hyperbole, but. Ok.
I guess by "Continuialy dump on the playerbase" he means; "Add more content and features for free then any other MMO on the market", and, "Continuously offer the best deal in MMO gameing by price, and solid gameplay and free content".
More free content surely you jest. The only content we gotten lately that was really free was the hampster wheel of death repeatable bounty quests. The rest was suposed to be delivered with MOM. The rest we have to buy with the adventure pac, no free in that.
No, I don't jest. I guess all the free content and books over the past two years don't count. Please... This dosnt even count the upcoming book 3, that is free.
The list is a bit odd because of how broad the selection was. Some of those titles (the kiddie ones) just shouldn't be judged together with the others or it jeopardizes the validity of the article (opinion or not). It's a bit like listing the top 10 music releases in the last 10 years and including "artists" like Teletubbies and Barney. At the very least you should have broken it up into two parts, one for the kiddie games and another for the more mature games.
But anyway... good read. Not great, but good. I give it a C+.
LOL Well said....
i must be the only one who doesnt like wow.
Good list! I do think AOC deserved the bottom listing over Vanguard, as AOC offered top-rate graphics, a mature setting, and an interesting combat system. In other words, AOC seems to be far more original in its design than Vanguard, and also far more commercially successful.
WAR should have gotten an "honorable mention" for its initial success and for trying to bring forward the Realm vs Realm concept.
One final question: how come Fallen Earth made the list over Champions Online? If you were judging new MMOs that go in a different direction from fantasy, I think Champions perfectly captures the whole superhero motif. Sure, it's got some balance and performance problems, but I'm hearing the same from Fallen Earth.
Finally, I want to give Dana kudos for considering games that the hardcore MMO scene doesn't give enough credit to, like Maple Story and Guild Wars.
From that top the only games that deserve to be there is LOTRO and Vanguard !It's my opinion.
I am sorry but there is a much better list here of the Top 10 MMORPGs and it includes gameplay videos of each of the 10 top mmorpgs as well.
Club penguin is one of the most successful MMO's of all time. Again, the responses here just show how jaded, and simply uninformed the
expertsForum users here on the MMORPG forums are. The game may not be fore you, however that means jack shit to its success or popularity.Learn to distinguish the two.
Its a good thing this wasn't a top ten list then.
I'm sorry, but this is a complete sham. Okay, not completely, but there are perhaps only a couple games from this list that actually deserved it. Lord of the Rings and Aion, and most certainly Guild Wars. Those three are excellent choices. However, can we look at the rest of them for a moment? Keep in mind, these are my opinions. Not a personal attack.
Vanguard might deserve this spot only because it miraculously managed to rise from the ashes after an abyssmal launch to actually be able to draw enough subscriptions not to have to shut it down. Definately a fence choice.
Fallen Earth was released fairly recently and does not deserve making this list. I'm sorry, but shoving newly released titles into a top ten of the WoW era is downright disrespectful to the other games that have launched and succeeded. Bad choice. Disrespectful. I whole-heartedly disagree. Picked primarily because no one has made a post-apocalypctic MMO.
Atlantica Online is a FTP that isn't even king of the FTP. While I admittedly do not know much about this game, I'll say this - There is a reason I don't know much about this game. I'm not saying this was a bad game, nor am I saying that it wasn't successful for what it is. What I am saying though, is that with games such as Age of Conan, Warhammer, Dungeons & Dragons and Everquest 2(They launched around the same time).. this is a real tough title to add to this list.
Pirates of the Burning Sea was a launch failure according to what I've read and testimonials from my friends, although opinions are just that. It has had nowhere near the success nor was it the quality of the afor mentioned titles. I have a feeling you picked this for the list simply because it wasn't attempted successfully in the past. And it's success is up for debate. Again.
Maplestory actually isn't such a bad choice. A lot of people are playing it or have played it in the past. It's free. I guess I actually do agree on this one. Maybe not it's position, but you could do worse. And you have..
Aion has just recently been released. But, the overall quality of it is tremendous. That cannot be denied. If it weren't for the anti-western market appeal, this game could have quickly challenged the top spot... and still might just do that.
Club Penguin is a childrens game. It is a social networking device. It is NOT a real MMO. Sure, they've made money off of millions of idiotic parents across the world. To each his/her own. While the massive success of this is hard to dismiss.. this should have not made the list. You've admittedly claimed that monetary success was not the primary factor in your selections. What was the factor here? Did you have fun playing this game with a bunch of 6 year olds? Did you marvel over the design or technological achievements? I'll answer this for you, and I think I'm going to hear thousands of echoes as I type this out from the rest of the readers. NO! Not that I'm anyone important, but you lost a lot of credibility with that selection.
Wizards 101 follows up the worst selection ever. Are you really saying that Wizards 101 beat out the likes of Warhammer? Age of Conan? If you are, well.. I won't go on, because I said I wouldn't attack you as a person. One does have to ponder your thought process here. You want an IT game from indy circles? Try Eve Online. I know it was released prior to WoW, but seriously, how many kids actually play Wizards? Even 8 year olds play WoW now. A dying game gets the #3 slot no less! Warhammer should have gotten this spot.
The #1 and 2 selections are spot on. Guild Wars is a great game in it's own right, and to tack on the fact that its FTP. You can't get much better. Lord of the Rings will have subscribers until the game servers are shut down 20 years from now. Or unless Lord of the Rings 2 is released. It's unfortunate because there are several games that don't get recognition because they were released a few weeks to a few months before WoW, but have managed to survive the WoW era and prosper. And then there are the obvious AAA games that get left out to garbage that wouldn't be on my top 50 to play list.
However, this is all my opinion. Agree or not.
The fact the almost no one has heard of this game in modern MMO circles proves that it shouldn't be here. I don't think anyone is saying it wasn't successful. But it is a childrens networking device. Not a real MMO. Very few on this site even care about it and most of the very few will never play it. It does not deserve to be on the list. Most of the people who play it probably are completely unaware of this site or most of the other games out there.
You might get a nose bleed way up on that mountain, I'd suggest you come down.
You are not alone. In fact, a lot of people who play WoW don't like it. There's just nothing out there that piques their interest enough to leave..
Brainwashing I say!
LOTRO #1? Come on now....LoL.
As many have pointed out, I was not writing the Top 10 AAA Hardcore MMOs Launched Since WoW.
That is a fine article and maybe one I will write some day, but this was Top 10 MMOs since WoW, which is different. Club Penguin, for example, obviously doesn't appeal to you (or me), but that doesn't mean it's not a huge hit or a great game.
If I were going for Hardcore MMOs since WoW, yes, I'd have included WAR, Conan, and, heck, even Darkfall.
The fact the almost no one has heard of this game in modern MMO circles proves that it shouldn't be here.
This, again, is your own ignorance. That does not make it fact. Sorry. It has over 12 million accounts, and is in every way a MMO.
It is just not YOU'RE personal definition of one, however it is a MMO by all industry standards. Again, as i stated before, the people on this site are clueless, as evidenced by the responses. Somehow, you think MMORPG.com is the center of the MMO world, and is the heart of it?
Who is on a mountain now?
What a retarded list of games you guys have here.
Even though I don't agree with the direction LotRO has taken, I agree that it's a very well done game. I wish they weren't making it more WoW like (6 man instance grinds, gear grinds, rep grinds, craft grinds). But, what can you do....?
This, again, is your own ignorance. That does not make it fact. Sorry. It has over 12 million accounts, and is in every way a MMO.
It is just not YOU'RE personal definition of one, however it is a MMO by all industry standards. Again, as i stated before, the people on this site are clueless, as evidenced by the responses. Somehow, you think MMORPG.com is the center of the MMO world, and is the heart of it?
Who is on a mountain now?
The King of the world has spoken!! LOL
God, I hope you're right!
I'm praying it's all of the @$$hats that are currently plaguing this game, like a nasty virus that comes and goes.
This was a well-written article by all accounts, and the author clearly indicated this is their opinion. My sole complaint is they did not clarify the criteria of what "Top" means. Was the definition to mean "best", "most popular", "most fun", "highest population", "highest revenue grossing", etc etc. However, I found the diversity of games covered refreshing (from AAA to web-based to Free-to-Play games).
Those of you spending time arguing in the forum thread are doing exactly what the author wanted: generating discussion and additional forum posts (looks great for justifying ad-space costs based on volume of web traffic and posts) in a clearly subjective topic.
LMAO!
Very good list, and well researched Dana.
LOTRO deserves that #1 spot. It is an excellent game. I was sorry not to see EVE Online on the list, but then I remembered the point of the list "post-WoW" :)
/agree
I'm sorry but any list that doesn't include LOTRO is pure fail. Some people might not like LOTRO but you can not deny it is one of the best MMO's on the market. It has the highest average review score since WoW released. It has won many awards from various gaming outlets. It is the highest praised game in the gaming media since WoW. You might like another MMO and that's fine but LOTRO is widely regarded as successful and a good game for a reason.
Personally I dislike WoW. I tried it and didn't like the cartoony graphics. But I understand that millions of people like the gameplay. It has 2.5 million subs in the United States for a reason. It is also heralded by the media for a reason. I might not like the game but that doesn't make it a bad game. It just means it's not the game for me. Same thing applies for LOTRO or any game. There will be people that enjoy it despite what other's say. We all have our own opinions but you can't argue with review scores and media opinion. You might not like LOTRO but that doesn't mean it's a bad game.
If you read what the list is about again maybe you could awnser your own question.
Wow, just wow. Two games that have been out less than a month, inclusion of vanguard, exclusion of war and aoc, and half a dozen cartoons. I guess the only real surprise here is that darkfall wasnt number one on this list as well.
In the future you might want to separate ftp from ptp and maybe even games for those under 12 years old and those over 12 years old.
Btw how much time did you spend playing each game? I mean since this list is strictly your opinion you must have some first hand knowledge right? How much time did you spend playing every other mmo that didnt make the list that was released since wow ?
considering lotro has 5% of people that have bought the game and stayed playing for any amount of time and as far as i am aware those numbers are still dropping, i disagree with this statement 'MMO fans wouldn’t have stuck with it this long had it not done a few things right.'
and therefore disagree with it's place as number 1 especially since war and aoc aren't even included in the list(war has what twice the subs and from what i hear aoc is starting to catch up with the likes of lotro and eq2), for some reason this site does seem to be overyly biased towards lotro and maybe even any named game with the previews of swtor and even sto in mind
really should have title the article my favourite 10 mmo's since wow
I look forward to your newsletter that inside details how you know the subscription numbers turbine has, and the sources of the numbers by turbine staff.
Excellent list Dana!
Very well rounded and done with an open mind! Agree with LoTRO and GW especially:) Penguin and Wizards surprised the heck outta me but then I thought to myself," What the heck, just cus it's a kiddie MMO doesn't make it NOT a valid MMO. They are real MMO's and have just as much entertainment value as the adult MMO's do".
I'm also gonna send links to those two kiddie MMO's to my sister who has a 10 year old son, so thanks for the heads up.
You chose 10 excellent "Mainstream" games and I commend you for it! My first thought when I clicked on the link was the list was going to be a "Kiss the PvPers Butt" kinda list and was really surprised! Not that your a butt-kisser per se! That's just what I expected the list to be like on this very vocal site:)
Aion doesnt have 3.5 million subs in Asia either... Nobody knows what that number is based on.
LotrO is actually launching in China and have had 3 million beta testers. Maybe we should use that number aswell?
Good list but I miss DDO up there. If horrible games like Vanguard and Potbs is up there I see no reason not to include DDO, RoM or WAR.
Vanguard is far from Horrible. learn to keep up with the times.
Upgrading my LOTRO sub to lifetime today. THey are adding in DX11 support early next year!
This post is just par for the course for what you can expect in AoC. It is one of the main reasons why I left that game and maybe one of the underlying reasons why it is left off of lists like these and doesn't get more respect. That game, unfortunately, has to have the worst community of players I've ever experienced in an MMO.
A decent game, even though it had/has it's share of problems (some of which may have been good for the MMO industry as a whole). I enjoyed the game, but absolutely hated the community.
look at the games that have launched since WoW and tell me how theres really anything better than Aion or LOTRO.
DDO is way better then Aion.
Nope, most WoW haters play LotrO :D . Seriously the anti WoW player base there is pretty big :D
Oh I see. So a Disney cartoon would be comparable to movies like the Godfather or Fight Club or even Lord of the Rings?
Learn to distinguish between media for children and for grown ups.
If an adult regularly plays Club Penguin I would say he has some issues...
Dana, interesting list you have there and I like how you looked at several genres, not just fantasy or AAA titles and such.
Well done!
Oh I see. So a Disney cartoon would be comparable to movies like the Godfather or Fight Club or even Lord of the Rings?
Learn to distinguish between media for children and for grown ups.
If an adult regularly plays Club Penguin I would say he has some issues...
This has zero to do with anything.
But, to answer your question. Yes.
I am not sure how you think Disney movies have not impacted, or are incomparable to other great films. Considering they have made some of the most beloved films of all time, and not all of them were for children.
It is also funny you think that most MMO's are for "grownups".
Clearly the OP was just stating "his" opinion, this list is not based on any fact or figures because though I do agree with most he must be drinking the fanboi juice on a few of these..Aion being the major one. How do you base success on three weeks worth of play? You need to post a retraction son.
Both WaR and AoC easely beats Aion imo. We are talking rpg games vs a grind game. War have more depth, you actually feel you build a character and improving by choises with gear and settings and AoC should have been on the list, for no other reason ( and imo there is) then for its combat system. Its the only game where every pull are semi intense and actually feels like a fight. Its what new game needs, inovative combat with player participation, not 2-3 buttons rotations which dosnt vary from mob to mob or from player to player. Hack n slash belongs to last milinium; Diablo does it better then some of the games made today, decades later.
I appreciate Dana's perspectives. I think it was a list based more on the impact that each game has on the industry, rather than the opinions of the players.
Fallen Earth is on there, which I agree with.
Vanguard, however being a game I was able to fully enjoy, I'm not sure it has had a very large impact on the industry. There were a lot of great things in Vanguard, but I think a lot of developers avoid the concepts in Vanguard like the plague. Not because the concepts were terrible, but because they were implemented poorly.
My only beef with the List is LOTRO at number 1.... What has LOTRO done to the industry besides provide another very boring and stale gaming experience?
<hides behind cover>
Dana,
I appreciate the list and think it was well done and well thought out, but I do have to ask why WoW's counterpart that came out in the same year was not mentioned? And by that counterpart I am, of course, referring to City of Heroes.
After the same 5 years WoW has been around, I would argue that COH was not only a groundbreaking game (first true Superhero MMO) but that it set a standard in that genre that has still not been met. COH has been a great success in its own right and I feel really should have been added to your good list.
I am glad to see you did have Aion.. if any game can challenge Cuild Wars and WoW it is this game.. beautiful world, awesome story, unique pvpve core... it will continue to do well in my opinion.
just my .02 influence.
Ya. It's one of those MMO's where you start playing it and have fun but then you realise that there's not enough content so then you either gotta pay money to get it or read the forums on how to get most of it the hard way (in free 2 play) but takes a long time to get. Either way, it's worth a try. Even for just a month or two. If you're one of those guys like me who are getting burnt out on MMO's, DDO is something to hold you over for a little while. While I know this has nothing to do with the topic, the only MMO's I ever got addicted to (in order) was Ultima Online, Planetside, City of Heroes, Guild Wars and Eve Online. For some reason, I just couldn't get into WoW. I think it's because of the graphics? Plus when I tried to get into it, the community was really bad. No help whatsoever and the only thing people seemed to want to do was brag about themselves. It was quite weird... And I played the beta for Aion and had a ton of fun. I can easily see myself playing it in the future. But not right now because of financial problems. I need to concentrate on making money in real life plus going back to school. I did noticed a couple other Korean MMO's that looked interesting but I'm not sure if they will be released in the US. One is Continent of the 9th and the other is Blade and Soul. If they are ever released in the US, I may just forget about Aion lol...
City of Heroes came out before WoW, so it was as simple as that. I stuck to the launch date cut off pretty strictly. CoH came out in April, EQII about 2-3 weeks before WoW. That's why both were not included.
You're not making any sense. You talk about grinding being a bad thing but yet you enjoy Diablo. If you ask me, grinding is only bad when it's not enjoyable and Aion is an enjoyable grinding MMO. Plus, I doubt you seen all the content in Aion. It seems to be mainly about PVP. I had a lot of fun in the beta. A LOT more fun than I ever had in WoW! And if you really wanted to, you can RP in Aion...
Thanks for tossing Fallen Earth a bone Dana. As long as the devs at Icarus keep the same level head they've been exhibiting so far and stick to their original plan, this game will build slow and steady and be a winner.
It was a good list, based on one person's critiera and almost all of us would have a different opinion.
No need to take it so serious, it was meant to generate some discussion and be entertaining, no need to get all hurt if your favorite game wasn't high enough (or even included ) on the list.
Good job Dana, was an interesting read.
Woot! LOTRO is number 1.
I read this before I headed out, and what I have to say has been eating at me all day. I am by no mean an EQ2 fanboy as I've only played it for about 3 months total over the last two years, and I understand the desire to adhere to the time line, so with that being said...
You talk about how the MMO landscape has changed, and I think that reflects more in EQ2 than any game I can think of. It launched a few weeks before WoW, and has since released 5 expansions, almost being marketed as a release each time. What started out being very group centric, unforgiving at times, is now a shadow of what it was designed to be when it launched.
I think that the EQ2 you can log in a and play now is most definitely a post WoW reaction to how the industry has changed.. the bulk of the game you have now is post-WoW.
Just one more time...
EQ2 launched before World of Warcraft.
The article was about the top 10 games launched after World of Warcraft.
Club Penguin looks fun xD I haven't ever heard of it... looks cute from that one picture.
Hmm, Dana I must ask, why is runescape not on the list?
EDIT:
Sorry if this has already been asked/answered, I didn't want to read through 16 pages lol. (If it has been answered, please tell me which page it is on)
No offense to any of these MMOs (except penguin club lol but i do understand why you put it) but sadly I think this list just shows how bad the quality of MMOs are. I mean all of the 147 games have lasted for however long so they obviously have fans who play them but I don't think any game is quite as complete as WoW. Perhaps money does matter.
Did you even read the post? top 10 MMOs AFTER WoW
Oh I see. So a Disney cartoon would be comparable to movies like the Godfather or Fight Club or even Lord of the Rings?
Learn to distinguish between media for children and for grown ups.
If an adult regularly plays Club Penguin I would say he has some issues...
Might be a bit late for this reply( I havnt read past this post) But yamota your very wrong. Entertainment industry is about one thing that is profit. If a Disney movie makes more of a profit than any of the movies for "adults" then regardless of who its target audiance is, the ones that bring in the most profit is better. You may not like it, I may not like it but from a business side its the better one.
I dont like WoW other people dont like WoW, but from a business side its the most profitable MMO on the market like it or not. If club penguin is more profitable than some mmo for "adults" Its the better one from a business side of it, doesnt matter who plays it.
Maybe adults play it with their kids? Ya serious issues that parents would want to play a game with their kids. What is the world coming to that parents spend some time with their kids, god forbid that.
It was released before WoW.
Just one more time...
EQ2 launched before World of Warcraft.
The article was about the top 10 games launched after World of Warcraft.
First, you obviously didn't participate in the train wreck that was Vanguard at launch, or you wouldn't be giving it a free pass right now.
My point was simply that EQ2 also launched early (a few weeks before WoW), grossly missed the marked, was reworked with a ton of content added after WoW was released, and managed to survive in the shadow of WoW in a way that really reflects on what kind of game it has become. If you were writing from an intellectual standpoint, and not from entertainment standpoint, then we might have a decent conversation about the true transgressions of the industry after WoW was released.
City of Heroes came out before WoW, so it was as simple as that. I stuck to the launch date cut off pretty strictly. CoH came out in April, EQII about 2-3 weeks before WoW. That's why both were not included.
People, for the love of God, READ THE ARTICLE in it's entirety before posting! That way, Dana can spend time responding to intelligent posts rather than having to waste his time telling you people 50 times over that his criteria for his top 10 list was limited to games that were RELEASED AFTER WoW!
Really, if I didn't think I would get a warning, I'd go off right now, on what I really think about the intelligence level of a significant amount of the people that post here.
Great post as always Dana, keep it up!
Oh, is this only "World of Warcraft" specific? Not including all the games dating back to the 1st Warcraft? :P
Guild wars is not an MMO, it is even said so in the FAQ
It is just a co-op RPG like diablo...only difference is that you can move about in the lobby (towns)
You are mistaken. Turbine recently announced subscription numbers are increasing world wide for LOTRO. It is considered the second most popular MMO in the U.S. behind WoW (Guild Wars isn't an MMO and F2P doesn't count). I would put AoC and WAR in the SWG club of below 100k subscibers in North America. In most MMO's you only get one chance to make a good impression. If you launch in buggy and bad state you will not retain subs. Most people won't give your game a second chance either. AoC has been doing alot of improving on their game but the subs aren't increasing. We gamers are a fickle bunch. Once we're burned, we don't go back for more. I'm looking at you, SOE!
First, you obviously didn't participate in the train wreck that was Vanguard at launch, or you wouldn't be giving it a free pass right now.
My point was simply that EQ2 also launched early (a few weeks before WoW), grossly missed the marked, was reworked with a ton of content added after WoW was released, and managed to survive in the shadow of WoW in a way that really reflects on what kind of game it has become. If you were writing from an intellectual standpoint, and not from entertainment standpoint, then we might have a decent conversation about the true transgressions of the industry after WoW was released.
Apologies if I came off snippy, but if you click through the thread we'd been over the launch dates about twice a page ;)
You have a valid point about EQ2 in a general sense, yes, it's clearly a much different game and, yes, surviving against WoW had a lot to do with that. It's an interesting thing to consider.
For the purposes of the article though, if I'd made one exception, I'd have had to include every single game anyone thought of before WoW because there would be some argument (I mean, honestly, you can make a pretty good case for WoW's influence on UO too).
So, yes, I agree. Interesting point, interesting debate and something we'll file away for future articles, but within the confines of this one, that was a can of worms I wanted to avoid.
I agree that Lord of the Rings should be #1 on the list. I actually left Lord of the Rings when it first came out after reaching level 45, but just started playing again a couple of months ago after playing Warhammer, Vanguard, Aion, and AOC in between. With Warhammer, it was fantastic for the first 2 months and quickly fizzled toward end game as the player population also fizzled. Vanguard had enormous potential, but I was still noticing a lot of performance and graphics glitches. I left I believe about a year ago, I forget. AOC had fantastic graphics, but the zones being instanced just killed it for me and I didnt feel drawn into the storyline. Played Aion Beta and a little bit after release, but I just had no sense of excitement and the lack of real exploration turned me off. I just couldn't imagine going through the exact same 25 levels each and every time you wanted to try a new class. Lord of the Rings was by far the most polished, best story, excellent graphics, great community, and nice variety between the classes and the starter areas. The game is not perfect, but it is by far the best bridge until hopefully some success with Star Wars or Star Trek. I also saw a post or two about LOTRO being a ghost town. I dont see that at all. On Landroval, the RP server, it is actually quite busy and I never have trouble finding a group.
This whole thread is Danas opinion against hundreds of others. Of course most of you disagree. Did you think everyone here would have Danas exact same opinion for MMOs? Half of you didnt read the whole article or you wouldnt post the errornous bullshit about dates and subs and yap yap. Then Z throws his dick down with MORE sub numbers and helicopter comparison JUST like in a thread I was in 2 seconds ago.
Who gives a shit if VG is listed and WAR isnt? WAH .. so go post your own Top 10 article (thread), as I wait for the dude with 50 accounts and a guild that gives their members computers, to come in and throw down too..
Part of me was happy to again see LOTRO on the top of another list as far as mmo's are concerned but as a few others have stated club penguin makes me wonder if I'm really all that excited about making this list as when I first started and anticipated we would land the number one spot yet again, but at any rate GO TURBINE!
The thing about debating opinion is that you can never win.
His top 10 games got some extra press but really we all know that there isn't a person alive who all ten of those games would appeal to. He's covering lots of micro genres in that list including Free MMOs, pay MMOs, kids games, etc. Unless he's sat down and actually played dozens of these games in depth its pretty impossible to make an accurate assessment of them.
If he were comparing big release pay to play mmos to each other and had played each of them all the way through to end game then I might be more apt to take the opinions seriously.
Club Penguin? Wizard 101? Maple Story? Get the fuck outta' here. And put the crack pipe down before you go.
Because AION still has 0 subscribers in the west. People playing with their free month aren't subs...yet. That should have been common sense.
And for the record, I doubt AION will get anywhere near LOTROs subs in the west.
My question for the author is where do you happen to get the information on customer retention and subscribers? I don't know of any company handing that kind of info out in anything other than financial reports, which aren't exactly up to the minute on how a player base is doing?
I do however like how an unknown like Atlantica was included. I'd like to see a top 10 list of MMO's no one knows about if there hasn't been one already.
Ok.. this sites gone down the stink hole.. and its going down even quicker.
Not only do we have troll posts by the members of this site to contend with, NOW we have to put up with troll posts from the MMORPG.com staff?
really man, to rank Aion where you ranked it and to put all those other mmo's that you apparantly based your opinion from something other than first hand experience.. this HAS to be some sort of troll. I mean wtf is Fallen Earth doing on that list, and Age of Conan isnt? Champions Onine? WArhammer? Hello?? But you listed Atlantica and Pretty Penguin or whatever the hell that game is.. ya Im questioning your merit on this.
Just look at the controversey you started, does anyone.. I mean anyone but yourself agree with what you wrote? Gratz and further deteriorating this site into pure rubbish, Dana
Nice list. My only addition would be to find a spot for DDO. DDO had a rocky start but going F2P , and having a lot of modules under it's belt, has really reenergized the game and it is filled with people now. I just recently started playing it a month ago, and I have been having a lot of fun.
You just hate AION don't you? Look I am having a blast playing AION and I enjoy LOTRO too. I have a sub to both but won't play LOTRO much till SoM comes out because the game was getting stale. SoM is great....I saw it at PaX. A lot of our kin mates (including the leader) came over to play AION and are having fun. But a lot will head back for SoM....some won't. AION belongs here because it has been changed to fit the western players a bit and it has been very well received. Yes it has toothing problems, but all MMO's go through that (even LOTRO had some server issues a while back).
How can anyone possibly take this seriously when you put LOTRO as #1?
This has fanboi written all over it. Granted that it's a completely subjective criteria (top 10... to what?! Be a game?), it's still kind of... well... retarded.
I couldn't stand LOTRO. They copypastad WoW with Tolkein lore... great job turbine. That has to be the LEAST original thing to do ever. They stacked unoriginality on top of unoriginality...
There should be an award for that.
Interesting article and good read.
That said... I swear, I die a little inside every time I read through the replies to these pieces.
1. They're *opinion* pieces - the opinion of the author - yet, true to mmorpg.com fashion - there are those who will fall all over themselves telling the author their opinion is wrong.
2. People don't read the part of the article that explains what criteria the author used to compile the list, and demonstrate that fact by asking questions that were addressed in the article. In the few pages I read, I saw at least 4 people asking why EQ2 wasn't mentioned. Even after it was explained that EQ2 came before WoW... people still asked why it wasn't included. It's mind-boggling.
Person A: "Why wasn't EQ2 included?"
Person B: "Because it came out before WoW and the article is about MMOs that launched after WoW"
Person A: "Oh... -ponder momentarily- So, why wasn't EQ2 included?"
Person B: /facepalm
3. It's clearly stated that the article biases toward Western titles.... Yet there are people wanting to know why decidedly Eastern MMOs weren't included.
Seriously... Do some of you people even *try* to comprehend what you read?
Well Turbine has been winning alot of awards for LOTRO: SoA and MoM. Appearantly the gaming press does not share your opinion of the game. You claim LOTRO is a copy of WoW but WoW is a copy of EQ and Ultima Online. So isn't it fair to say LOTRO is a copy of most MMO's that came before it. Every MMO takes bits and pieces of prior MMO's and applies it to their game. As long as the game is fun who cares what features are copied from other games. The many people that play LOTRO think it is fun or they wouldn't be paying to play every month. The main difference between WoW and LOTRO for me is the story. LOTRO is an MMO that actually has a great story line. The epic quests are great. It's nice being able to interact with the main characters from the books and be directly involved in the war of the ring rather than holding Frodo's hand as he travels to Mordor.
LOTRO's 87 average review score, many awards from the press, popularity of the game, and frequent free content updates are all valid reasons the game deserves to be #1 on this list. Nine free content updates with one paid expansion over the first two years with another expansion launching in six weeks.
The same hypocrisy and waffling happens with XFire numbers. Amazing how quickly Xfire numbers go from being "valid" to "meaningless" entirely on the basis of whether or not they favor the individual's point-of-view.
Threads on this site ooze with hypocrisy, spin and all around BS. This is nothing new.
I, for one, think it was a cogently laid out and logical opinion piece. With an emphasis on opinion.
I'm an older gamer (turning 40 this year) and have been gaming my whole life. I got my start, out of college, beta-testing games for Sega's Master Console - and I had to beta test a whole lot of games - everything from "A Lion King," to sports trivia games, to martial arts games (anyone remember Eternal Champions?). A good game is a good game, no matter its intended audience or age range. That's my view.
I've played many games on Dana's list, and currently split my time between playing Atlantica Online and Aion. Atlantica Online is the first 'Free to Play' game I've tried, and I found out about it via the positive reviews garnered here at MMORPG.com and at other sites. It's a unique, well designed item mall grinder, and is what it is. The server I play on (Sikyon) always has alot of people on and my guild is always full for raids. Last August, they had a game-wide raffle contest which culminated with a fellow from San Francisco winning an 'Atlantica Online' Scion automobile. Videos are on their website. Good marketing savvy, and an interesting way to keep your playerbase engaged. This is more than I could say for my experiences with certain pay to play games, such as Vanguard, Warhammer Online and Age of Conan, which were all either dead or dying when I quit playing them. Just because you have not heard of a game, or are not currently playing it does not diminish its quality or popularity.
I also have to put in a good word for Club Penguin, altho it's a game I, personally, do not play. As I'm an avid gamer (which, necessarily, is concomitant with negligent parenting), I've always encouraged my daughter to find and play interesting games - including mmos. She's ten years old, and so far has tried her hand at "Toontown Online," "Faunasphere," "Free Realms," and "Club Penguin." As I allow her only to subscribe to one MMO at a time, she has to make a choice as to what game to play and what game to give up. Invariably, the game she chooses to return to, again and again, is Club Penguin. It's not my cup of tea, and, frankly, I can't see what kids get from it, but they seem to enjoy the game. Basically, kids play as cute Penguin avatars, and can buy and purchase items, pets (i.e. "Puffles"), hold parties and events, and compete in mini games against each other. Disney has great marketing, as I've noticed they have Puffles and Penguin stuffed toys at Target, which kids can buy, and receive free items ingame for purchasing. My daughter has a couple of these.
The servers for Club Penguin always appear to be busy - again, which is a contrast to the marked failures of several recent 'big name' MMOs. All of my daughter's little friends appear to have played, or know of both Club Penguin and Toontown (another, older Disney MMO - which some grown ups even play). I would wager that many MMOs aimed at older player demographic groups would envy the success of these two "kids" games.
So yes, why not include "Club Penguin" and "Atlantica" into a top 10 post-WOW MMO list. They're successful, and good at what they do, and in the end, that's what counts.
Thanks for the interesting read, Dana.
If you read what the list is about again maybe you could awnser your own question.
/facepalm
Here's a big clue to help you along, phillipzam...
- FFXI launched in the West in October, 2003**
- WoW launched in the West a little over a year later in November, 2004
Note the emphasis on the word "later".
** FFXI first launched in May 2002 in Japan, but this is a "Western Market Only" article, so I used "Western" launch date.
People, for the love of God, READ THE ARTICLE in it's entirety before posting! That way, Dana can spend time responding to intelligent posts rather than having to waste his time telling you people 50 times over that his criteria for his top 10 list was limited to games that were RELEASED AFTER WoW!
Really, if I didn't think I would get a warning, I'd go off right now, on what I really think about the intelligence level of a significant amount of the people that post here.
I feel your pain. I read some of the posts here and don't know whether to laugh or cry.
I think Club Penguin should be ranked a lot higher.
Being a fan of Penguins (the animal), I couldn't help but notice that every Wal-mart had pre-paid cards for something called "Club Penguin" near the checkout. And that they seemed to sell a lot of them.
Conversely, it's hard not to notice how big a flop LOTRO is. The price of Moria (the boxed set) plummeted to $10, oh, about a month after release. And yet it still sits on shelves.
Turbine is great at taking huge existing franchises (LOTRO and D&D) and sucking all the fun and enjoyment out of them.
Also, while Atlantica did have a pretty good first 9 months or so, if you read the official forums, players are pretty close to being torches & pitchforks mode, over the lack of any real recent content (and the recent we did get really was awful).
See also the reaction to the laughable "Q&A" about it here. Virtually every poster makes fun of it.
maplestory and club penguin.... this is kinda sad.
City of Heroes came out before WoW, so it was as simple as that. I stuck to the launch date cut off pretty strictly. CoH came out in April, EQII about 2-3 weeks before WoW. That's why both were not included.
Fair enough, I figured that since they basically came out the same time that you wouldn't consider COH to be really before WoW... but again, fair enough.
I agree with GW & LOTRO being at the top of an ordinary list.
This entire list would look very different if we were looking at a top 10 mmos in the past 10 years say (other than WoW), period.
Also, FWIW, I've just started a AoC sub & can honestly say it's either a lot better than it was at release & all the whining it had back then; or, it's just a pretty damn good mmo (so far), & your typical mmo player expectations have now become so overblown that nothing that will come out will realistically be able to please/satiate them. Game over.
Actually, how about another top 10 list: Best mmos ever that are now dead...? <EG>
Must admit I'm rather surprised to see Aion on that list. Lord of the Rings Online was pretty tight, although it suffered from a lack of content at mid-high levels when I played it shortly after release. It probably deservers a 1st place.
Yeah and Atlantica online on mmorpg.com top.
Yes. World of Warcraft did change MMOs forever. It gave us one we could look at in disgust. It is so hack and slash without a base story line that a monkey could play it if only a monkey could read(which would make it less intelligent since WoW players typically lack any semblance of intelligence in those tiny little things they call brains). I personally prefer MMOs that make me think about how to solve puzzles much like all the old, non-online RPGs do. I am a hardcore RPG gamer but I never saw the point to Warcraft in any of it's iterations, but at least the strategy games made you think.
Its a interesting list. Pretty unbiased and the author's criteria matched his outcome. I'm glad he included my fav Fallen Earth and Aion as well. Think what you want but both games have changed the formula. Remember when WOW came out the rules for a successful MMORPG launch changed. SWG launched what at the time was a respectable 100k subscription. WOW's cartoony graphics let it reach much less high end computers and a much larger audiance, it managed to hit 1 million, which at the time was unheard of.
It unfortunately went bad after that, a formulai was in place and the prior adventous spirit from MMORPG's was snuffed out by the corp machine.
I'm happy to see that spark back in the gaming industry, it enabled Asheron's call and Anarchy online and EVE.
Maybe this list should be called "Top Ten New MMOGs" since many of these games are fairly recent.
New MMOs have an advantage anyway because they always start with lots of subscribers.
Wizard 101 is a great game, if somewhat silly at times, and I would probably rank it in the top 5. Lord of the Rings and Aion obviously should have snagged the top two spots, which makes me wonder why Aion is 5th. Aion is definitely in position to be that elusive WOW killer. It has Final Fantasy style graphics(which people love, and the 13+ Final Fantasy games are proof), a game play style that blends the best elements of both Everquest and WOW, and quests that are challenging enough for a seasoned mmo gamer yet easy enough for a newbie all combined with an excellent storyline. It strikes that magic balance that makes the game hard not to love unless you are one of these mindless zombies(no offense to those Vodun practitioners that may be on here) called a hardcore WOW player. I am just getting into Guild Wars so I cannot comment on that yet, and Vanguard seems like a good idea but I have never played it. Some on the list I have never heard of.
Top Game That Should Have Never Been Released: World of Warcraft
All World of Warcraft gave us was all the great games that try to dethrone the commercialized mockery of an MMO that World of Warcraft is. It is just one big cash cow, and like all cows is ugly.
I liked the improvements to Vanguard but the game is still buggy, they have put new content first which leads to a bugged and lag filled game. The bugs and lags are not terrible but noticeable, also many of the new quests have a jokey feel which is out of tone with Vanguards high fantasy theme.
I am sorry, but WAR and AoC deserve a place, they have big issues but should still be there. To leave them out and include maple Story and Club Penguin is a joke.
For me LOTRO is deservedly in the top spot.
What IS Club Penguin? Do you get to club them?
I definately agree with LOTRO. I think that the Saga of Ryzom should have been in there instead of Club Penguin. And whoever said WAR and AOC deserve a place... well, I can concede AOC, but the only thing WAR brought to the table that was innovative was public quests (boring, repetative content is NOT innovative) which really require a WoW size population to work.
PS- Not to sound like an idiot for all the trolls out there, but I think that Ryzom was release after WoW. If not, then I'm a tard. (Club Penguin is still lame)
This has zero to do with anything.
But, to answer your question. Yes.
I am not sure how you think Disney movies have not impacted, or are incomparable to other great films. Considering they have made some of the most beloved films of all time, and not all of them were for children.
It is also funny you think that most MMO's are for "grownups".
Ofcourse they have impacted people, but mostly children. Movies like Godfather on the other hand are for grownups and you cannot compare movies like Shrek to Godfather, that is just ludicrous.
As for MMO being for grownups, several surveys has shown that the average age of a PC gamers is in the upper twenties. MMORPGs being online and requiring a monthly fee probably (but not neccessarily) would probably have a higher average age.
So yes, I would say someone in his upper twenites is a "grownup".
And you, sir, need to lay off the crack as well. Try reading an article before you comment on it. As for grammatical ability and literary style, well, you should probably learn to spell and might want to consider reading things that don't "pop-up" when you open them. Loosen the helmet straps, their cutting off blood to your brain.
There's nothing wrong with the article just because you don't agree.
@previous posters
Vanguard actually makes a lot of sense, it had a rocky start that's true, right now its a great game and it always has had and always will have more content than either age of conan or warhammer, that's almost indisputable
To the person who spoke about comparing a Disney movie(which, btw, does include the James Bond films considering MGM was owned by Disney at the time) and movies put out by say Sony, you clearly do not understand the film industry. Yes, the story may be different and targeted to a younger audience, but the same basic concepts apply. I personally played Wizard 101 on a regular basis as a casual MMO that I play when I don't have the time or energy to get involved in a more complex one. I also see nothing wrong with an adult watching a cartoon movie on their own since for many adults it is a trip down memory lane, or occassionally, animated films have better comedy than that lowbrow stuff that seems to do well at the box office(think any film starring Seth Rogan and you get my idea of lowbrow).
I think its been proven by now that people dont want warcraft in a different skin, going by some of the real disasters that have launched in the last few years (with more clones incoming everyday). Some developers might think thats what people want, but if somebody wants to play wow or everquest, theyll play them, not some half arsed knock offs.
I have had my eye on Fallen Earth for some time. I was surprised it made the list over Warhammer Online. I played Vanguard too when it first came out and it was surely a bugged game. Quit after a few weeks.
Also played LoTR for awhile and really enjoyed it, but lost interest. Anyways, great list and a great job reporting on the games.
I am waiting for a few more weeks to order Fallen Earth. I just have bad luck on these games when they first come out.
Lol at that list. Vanguard and FE on the bottom? Club Pinguin on top? Wtf Wizard101 doing in this list? Where is WAR and AOC?
Miss, before writing something, actually try what you write about
Not what I'd have chosen as the top 10! Actually, this is exactly the list I'd choose for my bottom 10 (apart from LOTRO maybe).
Although, thinking about it, post-WoW MMOs have been horrendous - and I actually can't think of one that I've enjoyed. So, perhaps these really are the best MMORPGs since WoW, which speaks volumes for the current state of the industry.
Club Penguin is a much more valid inclusion than Vanguard, which is a complete piece of garbage.
Vanguard beats the crap out of any game in this list.
It also came out before WoW. Our game list conveniently lets you sort by date ;)
Of course the amount of content present in Vanguard has nothing to do with it's ranking in Dana's Top 10. It's an arbitrary list based on personal opinion - and naught else (according to the article itself).
If one were to assemble a list of the Top 10 MMOs since WoW with the most content and variety, then surely Vanguard would rank a lot higher than 10th place. Similarly when ranking such games based on current subscriber figures (or total revenue), both WAR and AoC would be listed and Vanguard would not make the cut.
As for the top 10 itself. Obviously I'd make some changes if it were my personal top 10 MMOs since WoW, but it seems like a solid list.
Might have done with slightly better explanations as to why certain games were listed (as can be seen in this thread), but a well-written article nonetheless.
I think people need to cut Dana a whole lot of slack for this list. It isn't like there is a large list of quality games to choose from that released in the last five years.
Look at some of the "top 10" choices.
A few terrible flops that flirt with closure every day. Changing to FTP model, IP acquired during bankruptcy, etc.
Free to play kids games
A game that really isn't an mmo
A few games that are not even out of their first month of operation.
There is only one game on that list that competes with wow and has even a small measure of success beyond 1 month.
If that doesn't clearly spell out just how sad the last 5 years have been I don't know what does. The only real successes have been the kids games and I am not knocking them.
Honestly some of those choices have no business being on a top 10 list of anything positive, but when you consider the alternatives what choice is there? Trying to fill any list with the releases of the past 5 years is impossible to do without getting to a point where you are simply left with choices of which games sucked less just to get 10 entries.
I am glad to LOTRO on top. I beta-ed it and understand fully the ramifications of trying to take on the "king" of all High Fantasy: J.R.R. Tolkien's awesome world. I feel that LOTRO captures an excellent amount of Tolkien's vision and ideas, and for that part alone it should be number one. There are just certain classic pieces of literature that can be a massive headache to anyone trying to develop said title... Tolkien is arguably one of the hardest. (Although I would argue the worlds of Jules Verne, Isaac Asimov, or HG Wells might be even harder to create in an MMO style) My hat is definitely off to LOTRO and will probably hold that number one spot until Aion gets more legs under it or until the coming of Star Trek Online and/or Star Wars The Old Republic Online when they go online.
A great list in any event Dana.
I also considered that same thing with those two new games. Ultimately, I decided to include them, but I wavered on that until the last second. In the end, given commercial success was not my primary measurement, I figured it was OK to put them in.
Basically, I went through the list post-WoW and made a giant list. That included every game on there, plus a few more. From that, I picked 10.
The other games I had briefly considered were: Habbo, Dofus, Silkroad Online, Age of Conan, Free Realms, Mabinogi, Champions Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Runes of Magic, Darkfall and Warhammer Online.
To be clear, that doesn't mean I truly was going to put them on. Just that they popped out at me as I was browsing through.
Runes of Magic and Silkroad were likely 11 and 12, if I had to label it.
Champions Online but not City of Heroes?
Wha?
Considering the fact that I've played LOTRO more than any other MMO since WoW released, I'd have to agree with his #1 pick. Although I've been lured away by DDO since it went F2P.
Champions Online but not City of Heroes?
Wha?
City of Heroes launched before World of Warcraft by a good 7 months.
We are not talking about that at all. This site counts it as an MMO for most things. It plays and works like an MMO in most ways. Get over it.
As for the list, I am convinced that some of these choices (Penguin, Wizard) were chosen to incite argument, and I am not sure if I like that. They do have some success, but just about anyone that actually thinks about MMOs or cares about games as a concept has zero respect or interest for these games. Most of the people that play these games do not even understand what MMOs are, and I think that alone should disqualify them. These are not great games. They are games that are specifically tailored to children and have no substance at all.
Really, I tend to expect better from Dana.
Ok another game in question Dana (I tried to find the release date, but was unsuccessful)....what about knight online?
On that criteria, a whole lotta people from this thread just got their MMO-of-choice banned. If you only think WAR, AOC or even Aion is a MMO, you really need to educate yourself.
Wizard 101 is a MMO and one of the most fun casual MMOs I've played. It has a ton of innovations that other MMOs should consider including - multiple payment systems, a great free play experience, a flexible and fun combat system - and just because the devs decided to aim their title more towards the childrens' market doesn't make any of their innovations invalid. Does it let a large number of individual players into a single area where they can all see each other and interact, including in combat situations? Yes? Then it's a MMO.
It's like whenever someone mentions Runescape (released before WoW ;-) a lot of players on these forums try to discount it despite it 1) meeting pretty much any valid criteria you could name about what makes a MMO and 2) is hugely financially successful. Or how players try to ignore the FTP MMOs as not being as valid because they don't require a sub fee.
I didn't see this point made, but it should be: what is really interesting is that post-WoW there have been 173 new entries into MMORPG.com's games list (and that might not include those who fail and get scrubbed). That's huge. 173 new titles in 6 years? No wonder the market is crowded.
That's a horrible list. It includes Quake Live - not a MMORPG, by any stretch of the imagination - and APB - which isn't even out yet. By that token, that list also needs to include SWOR and Blizzard's next untitled MMO because I'm sure they are going to be popular too.
Going slightly offtopic, but which armor is that in the Guild Wars pic?
I have played or tried many of the games. Atlantica although I don't play it daily anymore is a really fun and different game. It has many things that make it enjoyable and a refreshing change to other games I have played.
LoTR is fun and different although I didn't continue after the trial period. I would still recommend giving it a try.
Aion is the newest and I have not tried it as I have said many times I can't see paying $50 to try it. I do however have friends that are giving it a try and I hear good things about many of the things in the game but it seems that once you reach a certain level it then becomes open enviorment to PvP. This alone has lost any interest for me. If I wanted to play PvP then this would not hold me back but I don't. I like a game where PvP is a choice not something that is a must so too speak.
LOTRO is actually a very well made game. The graphics are very good, it runs great as well. It also has DX10 graphics for those of with higher end PCs. I also love the fact that they offer high resolution textures for those with faster PCs. I don't think any other MMO does that do they?
LOTRO has something for everyone which is why it does so well I think. Of course it doesn't have millions of subscribers but it is a success and Turbine is a great developer.
Um, has mmorpg come to this?
I think im done reading any non-forum posts.....
If u are going for a MMO, then i guess aa 2 would be on the top of the list hahaha
"Turbine did a fantastic job of honoring the source material. Their world may not match everyone’s mind’s eye vision of Middle-earth, but it’s definitely a great attempt."
One of the most deluded pieces of tripe I've ever seen. The only way you could make such a claim is if you had never read the Lord of the Rings.
Its not even close anymore. How you could say any game with a class like the Rune-Keeper (AKA Sith Lord wannabe) be a great attempt??? I'm not saying the Rune-Keeper is a terrible class. Its a great one... that has nothing to do with the Lord of the Rings setting at all. Which unfortunately is something that falls on a lot of what Turbine has added to the game.
The rest of the comments on LotRO I can agree with. It is one of the better MMOs out there since the launch of WoW. but to call it a great attempt at making a Middle Earth setting is laughable. Go into playing it knowing it breaks the lore of the setting left and right and you'll find it a pretty fun game. Go into it thinking what you said, and you are going to find it disappointing.
I have to admit that the only games I've played on the list was Maplestory and Guild Wars, and I am very pleased indeed that Guild Wars got such a high position. Of course, like most fans, I would want to see Guild Wars at the top, but since I've never actually played LOTRO as much I would love to, I will withhold my judgement on that. Guild Wars is an excellent game, and I am glad to see that, and I am very glad to see it with an honourable mention in such a list.
Okay, granted the whole RK class is supremely iffy on Tolkien lore and more than enough people have complained pre-MoM. BUT coming from a standpoint of a Tolkien literary fanatic, I can safely say that a lot of the stuff rings true to the source especially with the environment. I have a collection of maps of Middle-Earth and while looking over them for funsies, I noticed that the maps in the game are very similar. A lot of the written lore is translated very well into the game especially with the things that are described in like 2 paragraphs by Tolkien and flushed out into something huge by Turbine.
But you have to remember that this is LoTR from Turbine's eyes and I would assume they work closely with Tolkien Enterprises to keep all this stuff as intact as possible and negotiate with ideas like the RK class.
As per other comments on this post, okay yes, LotRO at the point of launch was like WoW with features. But it is rapidly changing as time goes by. It's actually not that heavily reliant on gear. I have crappy gear and it's no big deal (probably a big deal to some people and their kins, but screw them and what they think). Plus, they're coming out with the new skirmish system that sounds like fun and should bring a new dynamic to the game.
We may not have the numbers like WoW, but at least we have epic story lines that at least I find fun. It really is about personal opinion. But I do agree with Guild Wars and LotRO being top two... at least for their fun factor.
AION and Fallen Earth come on. How much were you paid to throw those in there. AOC and Warhammer both would of been in there on there relese days with your criteria. No game should of been considered unless they have been out for atleast a year.
Age of Conan is I think the best one out there right now in terms of fantasy, the pvp is actually skill based.
and where is Eve Online, that has a much stronger communitry and fan based then Pirates of the Burning sea.
The article said since world of Warcraft. EVE Online was released before WoW.
The article was a great read and you made a good call on LoTRO being #1. The only exception I saw on the list was Pirates of the Burning Seas which was, in my opinion, a horrible game. Its top 10 spot seemed undeserving. The rest of the list I can be on board with.
The RK is a lot more than iffy.
I didn't say everything about it goes against the setting. And while map wise and world wise it looks very close to the setting. There is a lot like the RK that ridiculously doesn't ring true to the source. Some of which makes no sense what-so-ever as it adds nothing to the game to go that way.
If Turbine wanted a generic sword an sorcery world they should have made one. Instead they decided to take on Lord of the Rings and Middle Earth, and have fallen flat, more and more in doing so.
I'm glad GW was high on the list.. LotRO is also a great game, just not for me... so yeah I like the top two.
Sad things. Atlantica and Aion's ranks are quite low. But hey, I think they both are good games. I've played Atlantica before and it's gfx are great but yeah turn-based battle system is not my type. Never played Aion before. I know it's gonna be good but fanboys just needa shut up for awhile. C'mon if its rly good, it'll go up xD. Cheers.
i love how posts magically vanish because the site doesn't like your opinion lol
tell me about it...i just cant find my post in other thread i posted yesterday.
A pretty decent list and interesting to see some MMO's that perhaps the typical adult AAA North American MMO player may not have heard of.
My only issue with the list might be that Aion is on it. It's way too early to say. There have been other MMORPG articles hailing Aion's future (I recall an article predicting the top MMO some years out from now, which Aion was high on the list).
I'm currently playing Aion and am enjoying it, but I fear that my enjoyment is really just the usual "oh, a new game" enjoyment. Aion isn't bad, but is hardly groundbreaking in any aspect whatsoever. It really just seems like your run-of-mill MMO that doesn't do anything wrong, but doesn't suprise you with anything either. It's really incredibly linear, with just one series of regions/quests to progress along, and is largely a heavy grinding game. Not really worthy of being put on this list.
As someone who tried, was disappointed, and left Age of Conan, I would guess that AoC will have much more staying power than Aion will, and that's from someone that doesn't even play AoC.
Gotta be kidding me? Where is Ragnarok, lineage I and Lineage 2????
I choose none as my top 10 and it doesn't mean I think that highly of WoW either but since the release of WoW everything else has been pretty disappointing.
If a game like Club Penguin is included why not include Zynga's vastly successful games (Mafia Wars, Farmville) that are running on social networks with millions of daily active users?
I probably also would have listed Runes of Magic and Free Realms, two of this year's best full-blown MMOs, but that's personal opinion obviously.
Still, a good read and I can agree with some of the games listed here, especially LotRO, GW, Aion and Wizard 101! :)
As for the GW business model, it has been tried for Fury which unfortunately turned out to be rubbish and got axed. Also the Tactica Online devs intended to employ this business model if I recall correctly. They just didn't get that far and the project died on the way...
Unless Club Penguin is a game where you club penguins, I'm gonna dismiss it flat out.
Thanks for list :) I played N#1 and N#2 so somwhere I agree with OP. About new games like Aion and Fallen Earth, IMHO time shows success or no.
You know, I'm usually pretty open minded about people's opinions when it comes to these sort of things. But this "list" is absolutely, completely, and utterly retarded.
I generally agree with the list, but think Guild Wars should be top, because of all the innovations it brought to the genre. LOTRO definitely deserves to be on the list, but somewhere between numbers 4 and 7 - It's unoriginal, way too easy and has a bland interface. When I tried it, I quit even before te end of the free trial...
I believe the list is spot on since I've played or heard about most of the games here. I also would like to thank Dana for a well written article. Having read almost half of the posts here, it seems that a lot of the opinions are based on AAA MMO players or "hard core" players, nothing wrong with that since I don't even bother with games like Maple Story or Club Penguin.
But the article at least explores games that out of the normal games we play - EQ2, FFIX, AoC, WAR, Vanguard, etc. which I view as hardcore gamer's market who is expecting to at least have half of WoW's subscriber base.
WAR almost made it but flunked because they started with too many servers and they didn't consolidate it when the players started to trim down. It was almost better now but I unsubscribed because I'm waiting for new content but I'd go at it again when the expansion comes out. It was a fun game but I got tired of it rather quickly since Tier 1 and Tier 4 only differs on equipment and bigger playing field but its the same PvP, RvR, and scenario play with little reason to go over the actual plot content. Heck I don;t even know what the hell I'm fighting for.
But LOTRO#1 is spot on, I just recently subbed and I love the game. From storyline content, crafting, MMO world economics, weapons, grinding (and giving you a reason to other than making money), there's a lot of thing to do and and the community is good. Whoever said that its a dead zone I think the reason being you might have logged into the new player server. I've gone to Brandywine server and it is jam packed with players on almost every realm.
The list is an interesting read and quite frankly there is no reason to be rude to the writer since it is an opinion and evrybody is entitled to it right?
Seeing as this is an all encompassing list all I really have to say about it is...
Vanguard?
WTF? There is no way VG saga of total disaster is right. There are like 10 people playing it. Yes, I did play it recently. It's empty. It had a rotten launch and it never recovered. AoC or something else has be higher then that turd of a game. It launched 3 years ago and when they do occasionally do a patch, it's mostly bug fixes.
It's a total waste of a players time and money.
I agree with LOTRO at number 1 however...
As much poor PR Age of Conan and Warhammer had, they aren't THAT bad, and surely belong here over Vanguard...
I agree with the list, however I would also argue that this list be revised in about a year, as new MMOs that come out may knock a few down. Especially with games like GW2, TOR, STO, etc coming
As far as they go I agree with all the choices with few exception. Those being Club Penguin and Maple Story, however that said I understand the reasoning for putting them on the list.
Guild Wars and LotRO focused heavily on good story telling, although people may disagree with their mechanics (I know I wasn't fond of LotRO's) they are both really well put together games, with excellent storyline, lots of play. Both are stable games as well, with few flaws and a thriving players community. That isn't to say they don't have their flaws, all games do (even WoW); but the positives of these games really out way the negatives. Heck Vanguard had a really rough start, but has recovered quite nicely in more recent months.
Like I said I would like to see this list redone every year now, to see how things grow and change.
Innovation alone does not make a good name. By that standard, this list would be completely different. And LotRO is innovative in many ways that you seem to be ignoring. Gambit/Rune system? Leveled items? Fellowship maneuvers? A game system based on morale and retreat, rather that health and death?
Sure, it's not really groundbreaking in any ways, but it is a well-polished effort at taking the genre in a slightly different direction. Not to mention the story focus of the game is second to none.
Difficulty is a matter of opinion; like many other games, you can make the game as difficult as you wish.
I would highly recommend you play the game to at least 50. The game is fun, but it does take a bit to fully appreciate.
Indeed, Guild Wars should be top. However MMO's better than WoW is a very long list anyway.
Aion is excellent (Please don't flame this comment, I can't be bothered with Aion-haters)
Runes of Magic is F2P and out-performs WoW on every level
When I read this list..
I felt something in my mouth that was disgusting.
I have now become a troll.
Some of the games listed in this post..
NO WAY!
i say this..
To the writer of this post..
Have you played any of these games?
jesus christ. i'm utterly offended by this list. /wrists
i guess this is just an opinion after all. but yeck!
maybe all of you should kill yourself now? YOUR list is no more right than the OPs....damn too much nerds raging here....
Ugh. One of the most poorly put together "top" lists I think I've ever seen.
VG held my interest for the free month I was offered. Would go back to it again but the worlds too big and it's a pain in the bum to re download. They do free months every now and then. EQ2 if it was on the list would be my number 1 choice since it's not I chose Guild Wars because of the class system there plus no grind. Lol club penguin. VG would be number 2. Coming from WoW you'd think it's barren but there are players there it's just a big world and HUBs as oposed to city are the places people come to gather. Thats something probly WoW people probly wouldn't understand. (took me awhile to fugure it out) I would disreguard maple story as it's a f2p item shop game but I guess that doesn't take away from success. Everything else pretty much similar ratings. Lol club penguin.