Originally posted by StarPoint117

Technically this post would be considered slander if you can't substantiate your claims with some real evidence, and assuming you have any legal knowledge(more so than your English knowledge) you'd know the implications of such, especially relaying this information in such publication that has some odd 1,000,000 members, with as many as a few thousand reading it EVERY SECOND.

It's defamation if it isn't true.  Also, it's "libel" not "slander", since it is written.  In common law jurisdictions, slander refers to a malicious, false and defamatory spoken statement or report, while libel refers to any other form of communication such as written words or images.

Originally posted by SemperFiVet

He also raked in another $10Million+ from the very employees who were developing the game.

Really? That sum doesn't seem excessive? How many employees were there? Who were the employees? Bill Gates? Warren Buffet?

Originally posted by SemperFiVet

The reason for my post is very simple.. Whiting and Gagon are crooks. They have preyed on their own Mormon brothers, dedicated employees, friends and friends of friends and hundreds, if not several thousand ,unsophisticated investors. I simply want to warn others so they will not loose their money and I want to gather as much information on other injured parties  who may want to TRY and get their money back and would like to put Whiting and Gagon where they belong, in jail..

Along the way, he hit on a few investors, like me, who look at the company,  form a LP, minimize each partners exposure, jump in and take a good, long look before investing serious money. That is exactly what I did. I have recouped my original investment of $60,000. When I went after Whiting in January, threatening a shareholders suit and was going to petition the court for a receiver to be appointed to oversee CME, Whiting wired my $60K back to my bank. At the same time, he and Wendi Horton, one of his multiple wives and personal assistant filed a bogus Workplace Harrassment Injuction against me on Jan 5th. The order was dismissed without prejudice on January 16th.. See the order below:

 

Michael K. Jeanes, Clerk of Court
*** Electronically Filed ***
01/20/2009 8:00 AM
SUPERIOR COURT OF ARIZONA
MARICOPA COUNTY
CV 2009-090215 01/16/2009
Docket Code 002 Form V000A Page 1
CLERK OF THE COURT
COMMISSIONER BRIAN S. REES L. Gauna
Deputy
MMOGULS / CHEYENNE MOUNTAIN &
AFFILIATES
MMOGULS / CHEYENNE MOUNTAIN
& AFFILIATES
4140 E BASELINE RD
MESA AZ 85206
v.
ROBERT GUENTHER SCOTT H ZWILLINGER
MCSO-OIC
MINUTE ENTRY
This matter having been set for hearing on the Injunction Against Workplace Harassment
issued on January 5, 2009 on behalf of Mmoguls/Cheyenne Mountain & Affiliates and against
Robert L. Guenther at 9:30 a.m., and the Court having received and reviewed a faxed Stipulation
for Dismissal without Prejudice,
IT IS THEREFORE ORDERED approving the Stipulation.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED vacating the hearing set this date.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED dismissing the Injunction Against Workplace Harassment
issued on January 5, 2009.
FILED: Order Dismissing Injunction Against Workplace Harassment
LET THE RECORD REFLECT the Injunction Against Workplace Harassment is
quashed electronically at 1:49 p.m. by the above named Deputy Clerk.

Despite the dismissal, Whiting found a Mesa police officer to file charges against me for violating the order, 2 months after the dismissal., the charge, Sending two emails....

Whiting has no problem with finding funds for lawyers, he uses investors money.  And he has a legal background, so he manuvers the system.. Trouble  for Whiting, I also have a legal background and am handling this case Pro Per, representing myself. Last week I once again appeared in  Maricopa County Superior Court, waived a Preliminary Hearing and have a Pre Trial Hearing scheduled for July 23rd. I passed on a plea agreement offered, because I want this clown in the courtroom and on the record, under oath. He won't show though, he is all talk and no play..

In the past several days I have been inundated with calls from people who have been scammed by Whiting, just yesterday I was contacted by a man in Phoenix who was talked into "lending"  Whiting some money last August, with a promise to rep[ay him in 30 days plus give him some stock. He has not seen a dime of his money, and is ready to file charges against Whiting, the amount of the loan, $250,000.... I have so many stories like that I could write a 300 page book..

And to answer questions about what I am going to do, it is simple,:

I am going to follow Whiting and Gagon to the grave or to jail, which ever comes first. WHY?

Because, he screwed with the wrong redneck from Texas..............

 

 

 

The more I dive into these links.....the better this gets!

It's hard to tell what's actually going on here because there's only one side of the story.  It's not a ponzi scheme because it seems nobody but the people at the top made any money.  Ponzi schemes reward people in the middle for getting new people to join into it.  From what's written, it just seems like a couple people may have ripped off a bunch of people.

If it's true, it's too bad.  I was looking forward to trying this game (although no screenshot or anything made me have high hopes- only the fact that it was stargate- in truth, everything I've seen has been pretty lame).

Even if the game wasn't turning out well, just because it's stargate guaranteed a huge initial sale.  Everyone invested would've made money just by making up some boxes and discs and sending them out, no matter how bad the game was.

Oh well.  It seems no American company can make a decent MMORPG except for Blizzard (and Turbine's LOTRO is great- if only for a few months).  Every other American studio seems more interested in turning the hype into money rather than putting out a game that is sustainable.

Originally posted by StarPoint117

Technically this post would be considered slander if you can't substantiate your claims with some real evidence, and assuming you have any legal knowledge(more so than your English knowledge) you'd know the implications of such, especially relaying this information in such publication that has some odd 1,000,000 members, with as many as a few thousand reading it EVERY SECOND.

From some-one that is berating some-one for lack of legal knowledge it's ironic that you butcher the definition of "slander" yourself.

By definition, neither his post nor ANY other post could be considered "slander" applies to SPOKEN not WRITTEN word. The term you are looking for in this case would be "libel"....which would apply to written word.

In either case...the gentleman would have a very simple and absolute afffimitive defense.... TRUTH.

IF his statements are truthfull, they cannot, by definition, be slander or libel.

Furthermore, it would also have to be proven that the defendent was making, what a reasonable person would take to be, a statement of FACT rather then OPINION.

Example.... "John Smith is an idiot" (opinion)

                     "On October 24th I witnessed John Smith beat his wife" ( statement of fact).

Furthermore, if even an iota of what this gentlemen claims happens to be true.... then Whiting would be incredibly foolish to file such a claim against him... as it would entitle the gentleman to pursue DISCOVERY through the court.... meaning he could get access to the financial records involved in the case.... and have them read into the court record. Which, I believe, is exactly what he is looking for..... if, in fact, he believes his statements to be accurate.

Originally posted by holdenhamlet

It's hard to tell what's actually going on here because there's only one side of the story.  It's not a ponzi scheme because it seems nobody but the people at the top made any money.  Ponzi schemes reward people in the middle for getting new people to join into it.  From what's written, it just seems like a couple people may have ripped off a bunch of people.

 

Well actually, when CME was at it's height of scam, they had 2-3 full-time people whose only job was to find investors for the company. They would tour them around the offices and show them the game, sometimes telling them ludicrous things about the game that would never be in or just crazy.   It was obvious that some of the investors never played a computer game before and they believed the shit that was fed to them.

Off topic:  one of the last investor tours.  When they got to the programming department and nobody was there, save 4 programmers (because they all quit) they told the investors the programming department was on a much needed "spring break".   Ha Ha Ha Ha

So, they would get the investors to pay (making up figures for example) $100 a share to invest. The check would get made out to some other Whiting shell company. If they were lucky enough to be the few that actually received a stock certificate, it would be for CME but for … lets say for $50 a share. Gary’s shell company and the ‘sales person’ would pocket the difference without the full amount ever hitting CME books.

Investors were told they were investing in the entire empire of CME and all it’s other fake companies. However, toward the end, folks just wanted to invest in Stargate Worlds. CME lost many deals (this included big companies like SOE, EA, Turbine) because Gary wanted the money to funnel through all his shell companies and to firesky, superstition, handcranked or even the MMOGULS thing.
 

Originally posted by SemperFiVet

<rabble rabble>

And to answer questions about what I am going to do, it is simple,:

I am going to follow Whiting and Gagon to the grave or to jail, which ever comes first. WHY?

Because, he screwed with the wrong redneck from Texas..............

 

 

 

Restraining order hooooooooo ------------------------>>>>>

Many questions have been asked since I first posted this information about Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment, Cheyenne Mountain Games and MMOGULS... I have received over 100 calls and/or emails from former employees, creditors and investorswho have invested in CME and/or MMOGULS ,  who have loaned Whiting and/or CME money, who are owed money for services rendered or who are still owed wages..

To the person, I mean each and everyone, not a one has received anything but excuses, delays and BS when it comes to WHY Whiting has not delivered. In a brief 36 hours I have tabulated, if what I am being told is true, over $3.8Million dollars in monies Whiting has scammed from these people alone. There is really NO TELLING how much money he has taken in, I really dont think  he knows. It could well be in excess of $100 Million Dollars..

Last year when it was discovered Whiting embezzeled over $6Million dollars from the company, he strong armed the only other board member , original investor Keith Deering, the CFO and CEO to convert it to a loan. They did, back dating documents and corporate resolutions.. Now he has taken well over $10Million and if anyone confronts him, he threatens to just close the doors, walk away, and everyone loses thier money..

So how much did Whiting originally put in the company that controls CME???  NOT ONE DIME..  He started this charade with Empire Enterprises. Keith Deering and two other investors came up with all the money that stated CME.. Whiting owns 51% of Empire Enterprises, Empire Enterprises purportedly owns 305,000,000 shares of CME, which represents 51% of the authorized shares. So effectively Whiting contols CME and all other affiliates.

Firesky supposedly holds the licensing agreement with MGM, and has a contract with CME to develop the Stargate Game.. I dont know if that is true, I have not seen the licensing agreement, but that was the story given by Whiting, Gagon and Tim Jenson,Firesky CEO.. However, my hired investigators tell me MGM reconizes the contract with CME as the binding contract. MGM was to receive a 19% royalty off of every game sold and off of all monthly online gamers fees.. The have extended the completion date and renegotiated the contract at least twice that I know of...

The tangled web goes on and on and on...... Meanwhile, Whiting continues to take money and plow it into his many real estate holdings in Mesa, Phoenix and Utah. The Mesa real estate mostly consists of houses and condos for his multiple wives and families. The real estate is Utah. now that's one for the movies.. This fanatic has hundreds of acres in Utah, owned through Empire Central Development, unless it has been foreclosed on in the last 90 days.

You will love the names of these developments; East Lion's Gate, Eden Property and Vista Ridge.. All designed to one day be a thriving polygamist compund for Whiting, his multiple wives and familes and all other practicing polygamists that want to live that life style..  This is just the tip of the iceberg.. 

I have bought, sold, managed, comanaged, invested and participated in many ventures with all types of people, but when dealing with a certified lunatic, its just hard to plan for the next step...

Bob Guenther

Yeh guys....Google this shit...look at the court records...fuck, even call or e-mail people..

this guys not bullshittin

my concern is how this will reflect on the MMO market, and if it will scare everyone away from indie projects in the future.

Ok folks what Robert Lee Guenther failed to tell you is that he was not only an investor but was trying to take over the company. He also has failed to tell you that the money he used was money that him and his Attorney friend scammed from 2300 people all across thecountry for legal services that was never rendered and that Jaffa Partners is also a scam that he has failed to return money to people that have requested their money back and has continued to claim that the money is tied up in the Bank and he can not get his money because his bank account is froze.

Mr. Guenther has also failed to tell you that he has crimminal charges against him in Arizona for threats that he made against the owners of mMougals and that he also tried to strangle one of the people working their. Mr. Guenther is well know on several forums for his abusive language and continued threats against people (including my six year old daughter).

Everything that I will post on here can be backed up with documentation and if necessary I will post that info.

Mr. Guenther has been convicted of Bank Fraud

Mr. Guenther owes 1.3 million dollars to the Cadle Company on a judgement

Mr. Guenther tried to file bankruptcy and a federal judge said that both him and his wife would not know the truth if it slapped him

Mr. Guenther has lied in Arizona and said he had no money and yet failed to inform the court that he owned a 425,000.00 home in Dallas Texas and a 300,000.00 condo in Mesa. (the court took away his public defender).

Mr. Guenther claims to have friends in high places and they are really friends in low places.

What Mr. Guenther also failed to inform you was that he had over 2300 people in his downline for mMougals and that he knew that it was a ponzi scheme from the begiinning. (a down line is the number of other people that you get to invest under your name and because of those people you make a percentage of what they make off of the investment) another words those that get in the scam in the beginning are paid from money invested by new members.

If you want to know more about Robert (Bob) Guenther then go to: http://asd-biz.ning.com/forum

Jack Arons

Wow.....now this is the *real* underside of the MMO industry.

Very interesting reading, for sure. In a scary, creepy, way....

Originally posted by SemperFiVet

Just yesterday MMOGULS relocated to one of Whitings MMOGULS/CME investors own ranch.. Reason, Whiting was locked out of his MMOGULS  offices for non payment of rent..

 

So did  V-2 Properties finally get a judgement?

Garvick was a pass through. The investor would buy Garvick units at a set price and then those units were converted/diluted to CME or CMG stock. All in one transaction, ie.  $100,000 shares of Garvick would be converted to 133,333 shares of CME, depending on the deal one made at the time of investment. My deal was the investment was kept in Garvick, until I thoughly looked at all opportunities, CME, CMG, and three other profit interest LLC's. I never transferred or converted to anything..

The Garvick  Properties allowed Whiting to take the money and put it where he wanted., he was the sole signator on Garvick. We found out in late December he was taking thousands of dollars ifromGarvick investments, not issuing stock certificates where the investors directed the conversion and was even transferring money to launch MMOGULS. I have the names of six people who NEVER received tall of their stock certificates for all of the CME stock purchased.. I obtained proxy's from many investors, and when I approached the General Counsel of CME ,the CFO of CME, and the CEO of CME/Firesky, I was told they  had no record of some of the money the individuals put in Garvick toward CME stock..

The game has never played except in Beta form, and those Beta servers went down in December 08, supposedly for updates. I sat right at the chief developer's desk and saw exactly what was completed, 5 out of 35 Worlds..

I invested in CME for the upside on the launch of StarGate Worlds, MMOGULS was an after thought, and was never mentioned in the Aug/Sept/Oct  investor presentations. MMOGULS gegan in Oct/Nov 08 and pre-launched in December, and was first pushed as a MLM to sell the Stargate World game.  The business plan was to  recruit players in your downline that you would make a commission from the monthly fees paid by each downline member.. It made sense to me, BUT I did not realize that the Gamer World held MLM's in such contempt.. WHY WOULD WHITING piss off every Gamer alive by going MLM.  That right there convinced me the entire thing was a scam and Whiting was never intending to finish anything, Why shot yourself with the very market you are cultivating to buy your product??  And now I can see why the Gamers hate MLM's, damn near every one on the internet is a scam..

Wrong on the Ponzi, early investors were quaranteed certain returns as the game reached different levels, basically Whiting told everyone whatever he needed to tell them to get the money. If you walked in o that presentation, looked at the business plan and PPM, walked the premisies, talked to the talent they had at one time, toured all three studios, then looked at the Beta of the game, before August/September of last year, nothing LOOKED wrong, it looked just like a startup, three years in the making, looking for the final dollars to complete the project and launch..

Firesky is owned and controlled by CME, CME is controlled by Whiting because Whiting owns 51% of Empire Enterprises who owns 305,000,000 shares of the 600,000,00 authorized shares of CME, or 51% of CME. Whiting controls everything, and he has his multiple wives, kids, Gagon, Gagons brother and relative spread all through the company, keeping an eye on everyone, its a damn CULT and this crazy lunatic Whiting is the Leader...

MMOGULS was leasing property from OfficeCenter Executive Suites at 4140 E Baseline Road Suite 101, Mesa...

They were locked out last Tuesday and have moved tom the home of a key player in CME and MMOGULS, a friend of Whiting's and a fellow Mormon, Don Carroll.. I imagine Whiting transferred all of MMOGULS under Carroll, that was what he was offering in exchange for funding..

Originally posted by SemperFiVet

The game has never played except in Beta form, and those Beta servers went down in December 08, supposedly for updates. I sat right at the chief developer's desk and saw exactly what was completed, 5 out of 35 Worlds..

Well here you show your inexperience of technology, not to put a finer point on it, a Beta server is just a server people will connect to.  Taking a Beta server down does not mean the game has not been further developed.  I know for a fact that they have internal servers to develop on, so the closing of a beta server means absolutely nothing, apart from the Beta was finished.

Really stating information from nearly 7 months ago is a bit of a no brainer, your assuming no further development has taken place, we cannot know either way, so those that are saying its not being developed are just as accurate as those stating its is still being developed.  WE KNOW since the beta closed its HAS BEEN developed because new material has been released that was not in the BETA, now lets get the 'but these could have been screen shots from stuff we never saw in the beta'.  Don't be so negative, there is no proof either way.

As to the whole monetary side of things, was this all done legally, or just very immorally, or is it for a fact illegal.  I know for a fact Team StargateWorlds is promoting MMOGULS in Asia at the moment pushing everything based around SGW, which as you stated earlier is 100% against what MGM told them to do?????????

Its getting near impossible to know who is right and who is wrong, RG is getting posts about how legit he is, this seems to be more a tactic of directing away from truths that are happening (possibly), either way if he is a con man himself or not it doesnt matter, he seems to be trying to clarify (badly I will say) what is going on.  If you want to spill the beans, dont do it with chinese whispers just do it clearly and precisely with details that can be founded, not based on hearsay and what you believe has happened. (timeline), if you cannot do this, as you have stated above this shows this information could be slander (not true).

On a side note, was GW and co. finding investors for CME or for itself?

The reason I ask is were you approached to invest in SGW or in CME, was SGW used to get your attention, invest your money, and then you find out you haven't actually invested in SGW but in other sub companies, and you money could be used for something that you didn't intend it to be used for.

I find it amazing that a person would invest in SGW through a third party, this shows 100% you are not investing in SGW.   How do people feel about investing in SGW and then finding out there money was used for everything else but what it was intended for?  Isn't that illegal?

What about the saying that it takes a thief to catch a thief?

Even if some of what Robert Guenther says about Whiting is true, he joined up with MMOGULS because he thought it would be a lucrative MLM.  He is not interested in SGW anymore than my Grandma is.!  He was just after the money.  The stuff written by Mr. Arons is true .  He already scammed a couple thousand people out of 130,000$ to "help them" when they got  scammed by another ponzi., he's a convicted felon and a compulsive liar and attention seeker.  

The whole idea to sell SGW through an MLM was crazy.  Any game worth playing should be in the stores where the players go, not sold through a get rich quick system and by people who only care about their downlines and not the game.     MLM selling is also notorious for pushing up the price of the product, as everyone gets a bit of comission on everyone else's comission that they recruit.   SGW shouldnt be sold like Amway - we need it developed and distributed by people who care about the games and know the industry - not by a bunch of MLM shysters..

Originally posted by SemperFiVet

This forum is  made up of intelligent people who will see things for what they are, will do their research, and will form their own opinions.

I dont want to digress and give this goof ball Jack Arons, the Wizard, or whoever he is at the moment any face time BUT  the truth about Arons. He is a excon who lives in a mobile home in Florida. He sells pirated music over the internet and his wife runs a bogus ministry that basically performs marriages. He spends 16-18 hours a day trolling the internet under various names, sticking his nose into anything that will get a response. Things got so bad in Dallas, my attorney sued this maniac,  and got a permanent cease and desist against him. He is not a gamer, a investor, a MMOGUL ar anything else of substance, he is a former security guard wanna be police officer, the record took care of those dreams..

Bob,  once again, anyone who disagrees with you or your position is automatically Jack posting on a different name. You poor deluded prevaracator. Being a convicted felon yourself (for bank fraud years ago) you have little room to bad mouth someone else with a  record.  The home the man has also has little to do with his character; just because you have a $400k+ home in Coppell, Texas and a $230K condo in Scottsdale, Arizona does not make you a better person, especially when your Coppell home was up for a forclosure sale a few years ago until you came up with $18,000 to stop it.

You already played the pirated music stuff, bad mouthed his wife, said things about his grandchild, not things a man as full of character as you say you are would do. You also spend similar time on the net, so you are no better.  As far as your lawyer, and his friend Judge Sally Montgomery, both have had complaints filed, and have problems because of you and your pomposity. The "cease and desist" order Larry got in Dallas, as you call it, has no jurisdiction in Florida, you dufus. Besides, the Florida AG has nullified it, and has notified the Texas AG. Heck, you were also 2 or 3 years behind in your Homeowners dues for your fancy house in Texas. So much for your wealth. You are as broke as Jack is, you just have a problem with being broke.

What also bothers the living crap out of you is the both you and Jack Arons were in the Marines, and he outranks you. That information is also easily verified. Besides, no Marine I ever heard of is as big a scammer and crook are you are, it's a disgrace to the Corps.

Once again, oh paranoid one, I am not Jack, never was. You just think only one person could ever have a problem with you on the net. You are horribly wrong... again.

For those of you who would like to see what kind of issues Bob Guenther has had in Dallas County, Texas, all by itself, go to this address and look for  Guenther Robert, Guenther Robert L, and Guenther Robert L Sr.  He has almost 2 whole pages just for judgments, liens and other legal stuff. He has almost $2 million in judgments against him..

http://www.realestate.countyclerk.dallascounty.org/search.aspx?cabinet=opr

Yeah, I want to invest money with this guy !!!!   And he has the temerity to call Whiting a crook????

Boobie Bob:

Produce the evidence concerning me, my wife and my granddaughter who is now my daughter since we adopted her and the Judge signed off on the papers yesterday.

You have no proof of any of the slanderious remarks that you have made against me or my family and yet I can produce doucument after document of the remarks that I have made against you.

PRODUCE OR SHUT UP!

Robert Lee Guenther Sr. who can not buy anything under his own name because of all the judgments and scams that he has been involved in has and continues to use his sons SS number.

Robert Lee Guenther Sr. a man who continues to try and make it look like he is an innocent person who has been taken by a crook is a crook himself.

Just ask Mr. Guenther why he failed to return monies to people who requested their money back after whiting gave back the money to Boobie Bob for their investment and you will get a slew of other reasons for his not answering the original question.

Bob does not know the truth nor how to tell the truth.

If anyone would like to know more about Robert Lee Guenther Sr you may contact me as I would be more than happy to discuss it with you.

Was CME/Mmougals a scam?

Yes! and that is the only truth that Bob has ever said.

Did Boobie Bob know that it was a scam before he got into it?

Yes!

What Boobie Bob has failed to also inform you concerning me is that I have received a FULL Pardon.

Yes I do live in a manufactured home

My wife is a notary public and is allowed to perform marriages in the State of Florida (she has only performed one for a friend and never charged for it).

My granddaughter is now my daughter by order of a Florida Judge who signed the adoption papers.

I have never been a Security Guard.

I have no desire to be a member of Law Enforcement other than to take down scammers like Bob.

Yes I do spend my retirement on the Net and I do receive Social Security neither is illegal.

No I do not pirate movies although I do from time to time download movies and give them to my friends.

I do work (without pay) for a major company that does reviews of the current movies that have been released in the theaters (still not illegal) and I get to keep the movies....a sweet deal.

I am not anyone other than who I say I am.

Yes his Attorney did sue me and we settled the matter out of court with no money changing hands and I got what I was after and he got little or nothing of what he wanted. Yes The Florida AG nullified the Agreement and the Injunction since both were illegal and they are now investigating both Bob and his Lawyer for Fraud concerning the 250 Florida Residents that they scammed.

As Mr Harvey would say "You now know the rest of the story."

Jack Arons

Big Bend Crimes

850.421.5791

jackarons@bigbendcrimes.com

Bob, Jack and this Wizard fellow... it sounds like all three of you (if any of you are even real in the first place) have some prior history with each other that you need to go work out in a dark back alley somewhere and quit trying to shove this drama down our throats.

This is a Stargate Worlds forum, not a daytime court TV show. If you guys don't have soemthing to say about this game, about the people who are developing this game or about what is going to become of this game in the near future then you really have no business posting here.