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Stargate Worlds Forum » General Discussion » I have discovered the missing link between Gary Whiting, CME and MMOGULs

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93 posts found
  Pugla

Novice Member

Joined: 2/25/09
Posts: 90

4/15/09 12:17:12 PM#41

O/T: Hey, Lisentia, good job on getting the weekly Q&A thing on the official forums.

Geeked for FFXIV
Freelance FFXIV guide author for Ten Ton Hammer.com

  Zhiroc

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/03/04
Posts: 220

4/15/09 1:00:49 PM#42
Originally posted by Lisentia

That blog is over 6 weeks old. A majority of the site changes that were, until recently, viewable occurred after Feb 28th.

The age of it doesn't matter much to me. What it shows is the "we have to say this, but wink-wink don't worry CME is on board with us" situation. If I was considering to buy into this MLM, that would stop me cold, because the whole existence and viability of MMOGULS rests with CME and SGW. If MGM were to come in and say NO! (which maybe they are doing), then the whole venture collapses.

It's clear that the MMOGULS management has set up some nice plausible deniability should that come to pass, yet use the winks to draw people in. They probably win either way. And given the Whiting connection to it all, I don't doubt that they had a "plan to succeed" where  SGW would be the cornerstone of this. But if falls apart, well, they got their cash out of it, I imagine.

The number of members, 3200, is where it would be nice to hear more up to date figures, but if it is true, they managed to accumulate US$800K out of them, and if they managed to keep them all, are generating US$160K/month from them. I can imagine that the founders are making sure they skim a nice profit off the top of that, but still, this is a pretty good source of income to "keep the lights on".

However, it's not enough to run a beta, which is probably why its been two months since tkksnow said: "Builds are being completing [sic] and internal tests are occurring, but no set date on when we open the servers". With respect to the beta, being unable to fund it is actually the best light one can throw on the situation. The others in order of  "goodness" are:

  1. they are looking to sell themselves and/or the license away and shut down, so the reason is similar to why there is a complete info blackout (it's only good because then maybe someone else can bring it to completion). And no, I don't buy the fact that they are "working too hard" to provide information. This is what you have the non-technical staff do, like marketing.
  2. the game between the last beta and now has gotten completely bollixed up due to loss of talent, and they can't build a working game to even get past QA, not to mention put in front of beta testers.
  3. he was being told facts from CME management that were lies
  4. he's lying himself

I doubt the last is true, though perhaps #3 might be. I'm not sure that tkk is even in the CME office (being a community manager, he might not be). After years and years of corporate mismanagement (and political spin), I take no statement from any company representative (or politician) at face value. It is just a point of view that I weigh against other facts and common sense.

  Kyriesunset

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/14/09
Posts: 165

4/18/09 12:09:05 PM#43

I had to laugh! I came across this yesterday in search of why all of MMOGULS management fled and how this event corresponds to CME and their ability to pay employees.

Apparently, the MMOGULS lifestyle is floating around on 99 cent floats, drinking beer in a free lake.   Remember, you too could have this lifestyle!!  (laugh)

MMOGULS Lifestyle

  Zhiroc

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/03/04
Posts: 220

4/18/09 12:26:39 PM#44
Originally posted by Kyriesunset

Apparently, the MMOGULS lifestyle is floating around on 99 cent floats, drinking beer in a free lake.

And using someone else's generic MLM coaching video to try to sell your product :-P

  Kyriesunset

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/14/09
Posts: 165

4/18/09 12:44:16 PM#45

Wow, what an unfolding of events today. The team of executives and sales pods that left MMOGULS have created their own MLM, to compete with MMOGULS (assuming it resurrects itself) I Am Paid To Play boasts about their better discount mall, real games to play, and NO creepy malcom in the middle logo (whoever made that logo was the fail!).   I'm guessing their games will be web flash games. 

I know that many of you had your hopes set on seeing something happen at MMOGULS. I did as well. But if you think about it, what made you fall in love wasn't the name and certainly not the creepy logo. What attracted all of us was the simple business plan that acknowledged why network marketing is so difficult and showed us how each and every one of us could overcome the most common stumbling blocks associated with this industry. The promise and potential were truly staggering.
I also know that many of you expressed a desire to work together should a similar opportunity arise. I am happy to say that I have found that opportunity. Join us with your team this coming Saturday night to find out more.

Sincerely,
Todd Lawson


 

It looks like the only hope for Stargate Worlds is to possibly take these folks to court for some sort of breech of something /shrug Hopefully, Gary Whiting was smart enough to have had them all sign non-disclosures and non-compete when they came on board.
 

  Zhiroc

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/03/04
Posts: 220

4/18/09 4:38:08 PM#46

I saw a curious comment today on this video blog:

"I can’t believe Whiting would dare put out a email threating the down line of Moguls [sic]. Moguls [sic] & Whiting will be down in flames soon."

This is below the video, and is not part of it.

Anyone know what the poster is talking about?

  Kyriesunset

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/14/09
Posts: 165

4/18/09 7:09:32 PM#47

I am by no means an MLM expert, but I will try to interpret what the comment on the video blog meant.

First, you have to understand a bit about MLM’s and their ‘down lines’. To build a successful MLM system, you need retention especially from the first set of recruits that you have out pimping your deal.

With the exodus of MMOGULS management team forming their own MLM, the new entity will most likely take everything already built under MMOGULS to the new gig.  I am guessing that Gary’s e-mail was to try to keep what he has already built and that person perceived it as an angry threat.

I doubt there is a new MMOGUL’s team already in place to lead these down lines – you have to keep feeding them cool aid to keep them happy and out getting new MMOGULS. Therefore, I would expect much attrition to the newest and hottest cool aid in town.

I would love to know what the old management of MMOGULS came across that was such shoddy business practices that they would all leave.
 

  Agricola1

Novice Member

Joined: 1/30/06
Posts: 5041

"The one you call messiah is a lie"--- Gary Numan

 
OP  4/19/09 2:55:31 AM#48
Originally posted by Zhiroc

I saw a curious comment today on this video blog:

"I can’t believe Whiting would dare put out a email threating the down line of Moguls [sic]. Moguls [sic] & Whiting will be down in flames soon."

This is below the video, and is not part of it.

Anyone know what the poster is talking about?


 

"Where do I sign up?"

No ... must stop greed ..... must hold back and reboot my common sense chip!

Ahh that's better.

Maybe the guy in the vid is an ex CME employee that is getting rich of his platinum account that all employees got? Maybe that's why they all left, CME didn't lay anyone off they quit as they were all making $15,000 an hour now and decided to retire to Hawaii? Just this guy is a really benevolent soul that wants to help us get rich the same way, he's so rich now he doesn't care about competion. Considering that every CME employee makes $600,000 in a working week of 40 hours why would they need a paycheck?

As for the guy posting, I'm not sure about the email but if I had to make a guess it would be that team Whiting is abandoning ship for their new pyramid scheme and sent an email to high level partners to get to the life boats. Maybe they passed it on and finally it's getting around?

But hey they're all making $600k a week, why would they be looking for new investors?

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"

CS Lewis

  Kyriesunset

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/14/09
Posts: 165

4/19/09 12:15:41 PM#49

I listened to the first Mondelis (former execs from MOGGULS) conference call posted on their site. Brett talked about some of the reasons why he left MMOGULS after 3-4 weeks. First, he talked about how he didn’t have control of MMOGULS. Secondly, and more importantly, about how funds were missing from the MMOGULS accounts. (were the funds used to pay CME employees as planned or were they to support Gary's other stuff?)

Jeff Knowles, the credit card processor, first approached Brett with his concerns about the missing funds. Brett also encouraged people to call or write him or Jeff Knowles about what happened.  (anyone got their e-mail addresses?)

Mondelis jacked everything that MMOGULS had, down to the pricing, the compensation, etc. I bet they even have Jeff Knowles from Vision Bank Card processing for them too!

While Stargate Worlds has been shed of the MMOGULS shroud of shame, the game most likely will never get finished without the funds MOGGULS provided or one hell of an angel investor.   
 

  supremeaaron

Novice Member

Joined: 7/14/07
Posts: 197

4/19/09 1:12:57 PM#50

hmm I say the funds that went "missing" where supposed to be used to help fund CME. So I say Gary Whiting pocketed the money to try and save his failing business's itzyourmall and nowcorp. Hopefully GW will get caught out for what he has done. GW can't really do anything about Brett saying what he did and if he did Brett has this info in his defence and GW will face criminal charges( heres hoping) :)

  Zhiroc

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/03/04
Posts: 220

4/19/09 4:39:37 PM#51
Originally posted by supremeaaron

hmm I say the funds that went "missing" where supposed to be used to help fund CME. So I say Gary Whiting pocketed the money to try and save his failing business's itzyourmall and nowcorp. Hopefully GW will get caught out for what he has done. GW can't really do anything about Brett saying what he did and if he did Brett has this info in his defence and GW will face criminal charges( heres hoping) :)

 

Actually, I think the funds that went "missing" were likely split between GW's pocket and CME. Technically, MMOGULS was probably never supposed to fund CME at all.

But if you look at the timeline: MMOGULS got going somewhere near the end of Dec and into Jan, and CME suddenly got the cash to pay employees, including back pay, sometime in Jan/Feb. It seems likely that the US$1mil that MMOGULS got through the end of Feb (based on their 3200 member figure) could have been used for CME expenses (10 employees for a quarter could be estimated to be around US$250K).

But now, if you believe the new "days since" site, it seems like they are out of money, and MMOGULS is going down in flames. Thus, CME's life will probably depend on new angel investors, and after all these shenanigans, you'd have to be daft to invest more into this venture.

If GW goes down, or if he ends up suing the new MLM Mondelis, expect SGW to be put on indefinite hold, unfortunately. His antics have probably made it difficult to impossible to arrange a clean sale, given the possible threat of lawsuits from MMOGULS members, and perhaps even allegations of fraud, and not to mention the liabilities incurred. Maybe MGM has a way of pulling the license, but that is even worse for the game, as they could not take the code with it, and they can't buy it either without being saddled with the above. I think a bankruptcy that would manage an assets-only transfer may be the only thing that keeps SGW releasable within a year, and even that is a stretch.

But I'm no business expert. Anyone see another solution?

I still don't know what crack the Mondelis people are smoking if they expect gamers to buy into social networking... Why do so if it's free? Mall discounts? You don't get something for nothing...

  Ederman

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/20/09
Posts: 5

4/20/09 3:49:31 PM#52

I find it interesting how the vultures attack once they see the sight of blood. As the saying goes - no one reads good news, people want the dirt. The attacks on Gary Whiting. The convulted half truths about managment. It would be humerous if it wasn't a sad fact that some percentage of people may actually believe this stuff. Whiting has pissed off lots of people as he has been raising funds for Stargate and CME's other games. Some are pissed off because they want a piece of the action and Gary said no. Others think they can boot Whiting out and somehow they will be in charge. It is just interesting that when funding wasn't a problem, then no one had concerns about Whiting - but when the company became at-risk and funding was scarce - Whiting became public enemy number 1.

I just want this game to get funded, get build and get launched. More focus by everyone to work together and less finger pointing - less distractions. A few months ago, people were applauding what a great development team, Jenson had put together - now Jenson is characterized as a crook with Whiting - what a fickle crowd. Angry ex-employees, angry investors, angry past due vendors all what to blame their problems on CME and its management - clearly there are lots of people hurting given the affects the economy has had on everyone and on CME - but let's get past the blame game and move on. Let use the forums to talk about the game - not about political crap.

 

  supremeaaron

Novice Member

Joined: 7/14/07
Posts: 197

4/21/09 12:48:35 PM#53

I have a feeling that some of these angel investors are waiting for mmoguls to fail, which they are at the moment in my opinion with Bret walking out and revealing some of the dirt on GW like pocking money for himself and to fund his failing business's itzyourmall and nowcorp. I for one thing mmoguls burning will be the god send CME will need to continue in production and release this game. Hopefully mmoguls will go sooner rather then later and we can move on.

  orgill3

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/21/09
Posts: 27

4/21/09 12:59:14 PM#54

Whiting is spread so thin with all the different companies he is involved in that none of them get much of his attention.  MMOGULs failure or success has little impact on CME.  No CME money has ever gone to MMOGULs or to any or Whitings other companies, but it clearly has been a distraction and a nusiance.

  sgman7

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/21/09
Posts: 31

4/21/09 1:04:57 PM#55

Since MMOGULS is not tied to Stargate, the sooner it goes away the better.  I got a copy of the MMOGULS documents and they are now prohibited from mentioning or using Stargate in any way  - finally some rationale thought.

  Kyriesunset

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/14/09
Posts: 165

4/21/09 1:06:12 PM#56
Originally posted by orgill3

Whiting is spread so thin with all the different companies he is involved in that none of them get much of his attention.  MMOGULs failure or success has little impact on CME.  No CME money has ever gone to MMOGULs or to any or Whitings other companies, but it clearly has been a distraction and a nusiance.


 

Could you explain why Jeff Knowles & Brett would believe there were missing funds?

Also, if MMOGULS's failure has little impact on CME, then why cant they make payroll again and are using the MMOGUL's failure as the main reason?

  orgill3

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/21/09
Posts: 27

4/21/09 1:20:15 PM#57

I don't think MMOGULs had "missing funds" . Whiting took them - they weren't missing - Jeff and Bret both knew this and they didn't like it.   Whiting had control of the funds and used them elsewhere.  But these funds didn't come to CME.

CME is iimpacted by crap that goes on at MMOGULs because Jeff Knowles is the credit card processor for MMOGULs and if MMOGULs falls apart then he gets concerned about charge backs and this impacts when he will close his deal with CME.  For CME it would be best if it either fails or not quickly - so CME can get its funding.
 

  supremeaaron

Novice Member

Joined: 7/14/07
Posts: 197

4/21/09 2:02:29 PM#58

Brett used to work for mmoguls but quit after he discovered that money was missing from the financle books and when he confronted Gary over it Gary never gave him an answer. So in the end Brett left and has joined a rival comapany of mmoguls and mentioned what mmoguls was like on a audio conferance. Bascily Gary can't do anything really to Brett since Brett has this hanging over Gary. So if Gary was to sue Brett for revealing this type of info Brett can use what he has and Gary would be in no uncertain terms screwed. I say a lot of people have left this mmoguls company and I say the true figures of members aren't  acruate especially since there where reports by ex CME devs that they where forced to join mmoguls ( this is supposed to be the main reason why so many devs left the company). mmoguls I hope will get shut down as I say there are more lies then truths with Gary and what he has done. I say if Gary was never picked to raise funds for CME that this whole trouble whould have never happened. I say remove the bad seed and maybe the siiuation will improve. *crosses fingers* Im only here for SGW and I cant wait for the game I just hope mmoguls gets sorted so we can almost garantee a release of what appears to be a good game.

  sgman7

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/21/09
Posts: 31

4/21/09 8:58:46 PM#59

Question is - how do you remove or get rid of a 51% shareholder - and if your stuck with him - is there anyway to make this work.  Separating the facts from the fiction is tricky.  If the company had money - then it would be easier to ignore or remove Whiting, but without money - the battle will kill it all.

  Zhiroc

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/03/04
Posts: 220

4/21/09 10:59:15 PM#60

If you look at the Arizona state govt. site, Whiting is listed as the only member of the board of directors now. He therefore has full functional control of the company. If the CEO won't do what he wants, he can fire him and appoint anyone, including himself, to the role.

As to whether the shareholders have any recourse, I can't say. I suppose it depends on what they agreed to. I get the impression that there are a lot of small investors, and I wonder whether he took advantage of that. They might not even have voting shares.

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