I called it a conspiracy theroy since noone has given solid points, appart from websites of cme staff havent being payed in so many days. Also whats wrong with trying to make SGW forums positive?

Originally posted by Beartosser

If it goes to bankruptcy the judge will be concerned with getting the best return for the creditors, which would probably mean auction to the highest bidder. If that were the case, I could see SOE snapping the game up.

SOE is a nice company that likes to help out other developers and games,but SWG is just a real bad game IMO,it looks VERY cheap,i do not believe for one second SOE would touch this game.IMO the game will just die and disappear.

Originally posted by Agricola1

Khestral and TKKSnow are doing their best smoke and mirrors act they can but when only 10-15 community members actually believe them what's the point?

Khestral said he'd get the screenies in two weeks and didn't, he said he'd put the communities questions to developers and return with answers soon one month ago. An explanation would suffice but instead they ban you for asking for one and tell you to put up or shut up.

How hard could it be for the Director of quality assurance at say CCP or even Aventurine to get five screenshots of anything they're working on to show the public? I reckon even Tasos could deliver on that because there actually are people working at Aventurine, it may only be twenty workers but he could get them posted that day even. Khestral can't because no one is doing any work, FACT!

Therefore Khestral shouldn't promise what he knows he can't deliver. In my opinion it was merely all a red herring to get the community to quiet down for a while and it worked for a month. However all the time he knew there was no way to deliver on it within the time he'd alotted unless he went and did it himself which is probqably what he's been doing. I can see Khestral now shouting and swearing as he tries to learn how to use the Bigworld engine in time for the two week deadline!

I wonder when Khestral was last paid?

It's very hard for the Director of Quality because he's Director of Nothing (literally). So what does a Director of Quality do all day when there is no development going on? Eat a free lunch?

Remember the official reply from CME when Dan Elggren’s left? They said Rod was going to lead Stargate Worlds development. Well, the guy never came back from leave of absence so there’s nobody in charge of SGW. Fair enough, because there’s only a handful of CME developer’s left hanging around working for that free lunch.

So it’s hard for khestral to come through on his promise when the very people he would have to get information from are not there anymore, the game very likely won’t fire up to even take new screen shots, if it did, the shots would be lacking many of the engine’s features as they are definitely not working.

This is the most embarrassing MMORPG death I’ve ever seen. They don’t even have the balls to come out and say it’s over. Instead they milk whatever employees are left to help further Whitting’s facade that there is still something left at CME, so maybe he can milk some funds out of someone.

As far as when Khestral was lat paid?  Good question!  Rumors are that some people are getting money.   

Originally posted by supremeaaron

I called it a conspiracy theroy since noone has given solid points, appart from websites of cme staff havent being payed in so many days.

We have 2 solid (at least believable) instances of developer wives in print stating the no pay. One was banned from the official forums for saying it. The other was stating dan ellgrins payment schedule. Neither has been proven inaccurate.

Originally posted by ariccaron 

We have 2 solid (at least believable) instances of developer wives in print stating the no pay. One was banned from the official forums for saying it. The other was stating dan ellgrins payment schedule. Neither has been proven inaccurate.

That's the thing, isn't? CME has never denied anything outright.

Rumor #1 - People aren't getting paid

CME Response: "We are having tough financial times." Many people, supremeaaron included, used that as grounds to say the rumors were false and that the only people spreading it had a vendetta against CME. In particular, everyone liked to blame TTH and say it was because of the beta issues.

Despite a post on a developer's blog that it was true, most people chose to believe it was all smear tactics. Once he got paid and posted that, suddenly everyone believed his posts were gospel truth.

Rumor #2 - MMOGULS

CME Response: "We have no contract with MMOGULS." They filtered the word on their forums. Many people, supremeaaron included, used the answer as definitve proof that the company was not connected in any way to CME.

Now we have all seen enough official state of AZ and state of NV records to know that the man ultimately in charge of CME was also behing MMOGULS. It is next to impossible to believe that he did not intend to use the game as part of his money-making scheme.

Rumor #3 - People aren't getting paid again

CME Response: "We are having tough financial times like we already said." They never have the balls to come out and admit to something. They always cast things is just the right light so that people can doubt those who know the truth and call them haters and conspiracy theorists.

Even when a dev's wife psots that her family is sick of suffering without pay and insurance, people choose to attack her and villify her rather than discuss the true issue at hand.

Rumor #4 - The game is dying

CME Response: Ban anyone who dares to challenge the lies or who tells the truth. Several statements from tkksnow that we should all just shut up and think about ponies and rainbows so that we don't hurt their feelings.

The facts: Beta has been shut down for a LONG time. We've seen a handful of screenshots over the last SIX MONTHS. CME finally admitted they lack the bandwidth to host videos or podcasts, something they desperately need to try to rescue their failing company.

WHY I CARE

I care because I don't want any company that so mistreats its employees to make money. I don't want criminals making a cut into the MMO world.

MY MESSAGE JUST FOR SUPREMEAARON

I understand you are a huge fan of Star Gate. I'm sure you know the lore way better than I do. You're not helping, man. I know you want to play a SG game real bad, but this ain't the one. You'd be selling out if you spent your honest money on a game made by victims for the profit of a crook.

Please note that I am telling you I understand the developers MAY not be bad people. But buying their game is NOT the way to help them. Force Whiting to face up to his crimes. Force him to have to pay his employees.

Also note that I am telling you tkksnow IS bad. Talk about spin and lies! tkksnow has done nothing but make the voice of CME lies from the outset. It starting by breaking CME's word about the very beta giveaway that the few reamining SGW fans like to blame on the problems.

See my post here. In particular, I linked to Khatie's post here, which promised beta to every TTH member who paid for membership (I have not done that, so I would not be included). She made this post as a rep of CME in a public area. I accept it as truth.

Now take that FACT and compare it with one of tkksnow's first posts here. At the time, I thought it was CME just going back on its word because they decided they wanted to make more similar deals with other bigger sites. Now I have come to understand it was probably because they had a horrible alpha that they were calling beta and they already saw trouble ahead.

There cannot be ANYONE left who is just a blind faither.  There is WAY too much going on to really and truly believe that this game isn't in trouble/going to see the light of day.

On the official forums, the only reason the FanOri are the FanOri, is due to the promises of origin!  They will stick around and brown-nose it and blow rainbow smoke up each other's asses in the hopes that they will get into the next round of beta.  That is the ONLY reason there is anyone left there.  Watch, when the game's shut down is announced, if the forums are left open for even an hour, you will see what's really going on in their minds.  The only people left the the people willing to suck their way into a beta invite, on the off chance it might happen.

It's not going to, and even if it did, who cares at this point.  SGW is now host to the world's most toxic known community and there's no coming back from that if that's the foundation of your players base.  The longer these folks hang onto SGW, the longer it will be till they're infecting the other games.  So let them be FanOri, let them believe they will ascend when they die, let them live in hope of a beta invite that will never come.  It keeps them out of the games we can actually enjoy!

Well from what I understand, even if you were a premium member you had to tell them (TTH) you wanted a key, so they would send your details to CME.  It was not automatically assumed by TTH that you would want a key. (FACT)

All the people that had requested a key (from TTH), their details were sent to CME, were they would be added to the list of people to be added in, since they were adding hundreds every few days, this meant they had to share all the beta spots with other sites and other competition sites that had given away beta slots. (TTH didn't have an exclusive on this).  Also you need to take into account the other 200k beta registered users, some of these people would need to be added as well.

Now I know a lot of TTH got there keys and a lot didn't.  But more than likely as the beta progressed these people would have been added, it didn't help matters that TTH started promoting the sale of the beta keys through there premium service, as this gave some people the thought that it would be immediate access into the beta, which is wasn't (I remember seeing a influx of complaints on the TTH forum the day the beta started saying they hadn't got their keys, and all these were moved to the premium section of the forum),  I know of a quite a few that paid expecting immediate access into the beta, only to never get into the beta.  I dont know whose fault that was, but it was a bad fault.  (It didn't help the BETA didn't last very long either).

One thing I will say about the whole TTH thing, TTH did not have exclusivity into the closed beta, there were many many other sites that had requested and had been given beta slots for the beta.  For TTH to assume that they would have unlimited immediate access for everyone into the beta was a bit of a short falling on there part (or they didn't communicate these terms clearly enough on the website), but these things happen, dont paint this whole problem as a fault of CME, because personally I think it was a mixture of bad communication, and assumptions by TTH and CME.

One thing I do know is, once the BETA had stopped they did not take down there BETA KEY ADVERTISEMENT for nearly 1 month, I find this really bad, as people were joining thinking they would get a key, and only to find out that the beta had stopped and no key would be coming in the near future.

Originally posted by yellowperil

One thing I do know is, once the BETA had stopped they did not take down there BETA KEY ADVERTISEMENT for nearly 1 month, I find this really bad, as people were joining thinking they would get a key, and only to find out that the beta had stopped and no key would be coming in the near future.

TTH bent over backward for CME  with advertising and exclusive videos with Dan Elggrins and the team. CME failed to hold up their part of the bargain on the beta keys (and beta in general). As for the 1 month add, when beta stopped the beta testers (and TTH ) were lied to via email that it was only a two week downtime for a major upgrade. So at most the adds were only up for two weeks past the OFFICIAL time CME claimed that beta would be back up. Not bad really concidering how hard it is to get timely factual info out of CME. TTH also refunded peoples money if they signed up as a premium member for a beta key and hadn't used other premium features.

Originally posted by yellowperil

One thing I do know is, once the BETA had stopped they did not take down there BETA KEY ADVERTISEMENT for nearly 1 month, I find this really bad, as people were joining thinking they would get a key, and only to find out that the beta had stopped and no key would be coming in the near future.

I can't deny or support this. I visit that site once, maybe twice per week. I did find

this post

from one of their workers in the same thread I was linking to before. If it really took a month after that post, then that IS shady.

Edited to add, I once was ready to believe that TTH was a shady website, but then I figured out that CME was hiding behind that as a smokescreen. I understand some people really don't like the way that websites sell memberships in exchange for beta keys, but FilePlanet has been doing it for years. For $40/year, I get beta access to just about every game coming out. I can't really complain. And every beta I get into, I find people who got into it without paying, so for now, companies haven't completely sold betas.

I think CME got the better end of the stick with additional traffic to their beta from folks who might not have found the CME page on their own, TTH was above reproach by refunding any subs to folks who only joined for the SGW beta.  

Khatie left/forced out of CME about the time this beta stuff came to a head too.  That was the official downward spiral of CME's community.   What fools they were for letting her go.   Dan really badmouthed her after she left too, of course he did that practically for any non-Mormon that left. 

There is so much BS being spread around about CME and MMOGULS it is hard to seperate the truth from fiction, from what people are hoping for..

The facts are the facts.

Founder Gary Whiting and co-founder Fred Gagon were involved in a similar scam in 1995-1996. It involved a company known as Para Mas, the predecessor of NOW Corp.  Gagon was indicted, took the fall for Whiting and was permanently banned in Arizona from selling or representing unregistered or non-exempt securities, Maricopa County Superior Court , State of Arizona CASE # CV95-02582..         The plantiffs were awarded $700K in damages and to date over $11MILLION in liens for damages have been filed against Gagon.

Along comes CME, Whiting seeks out his old fall guy,Gagon. Whiting was the slick guy in the corner office, Gagon, the used car salesman, was the promoter. A shell company formed by Gagon was GIVEN some 40MILLION shares of CME stock, along with more stock to Gagons family and brother.. That in addition to the unbelievable salary and expenses these guys were pulling down..  Sucking the company dry... When I confronted them both last December/ January, Gagon made a beeline for Brazil, where his current wife is from and hid away for a month.. Whiting files some bogus Workplace Harrassment suit against me to keep me away, it was dismissed two weeks later..

Fast forward to today, CME is dead.  Vendors and most employees have not been paid for 2-3 months, not paid except for  Whiting, Gagon, their families and some key cohorts.. MMOGULS, formed by the same two crooks,  is on it's last leg, having just been kicked out of their Baseline Street headquarters for non payment on rent. They now office in a ranch house owned by a Whiting friend and co-conspirator, it is called MMOGULS RANCH...

Now Whiting, fearing I am close to throwing him in Bankruptcy, has filed for divorce and is trying to shelter assets. A self proclaimed polygamist, excommunicated from the Mormon church because of his practices, does not divorce a "wife"..Give me a break....  Divorce Case # FC2009-091656.. There is only one attorney, supposedly representing the MRS and Whiting representing himself, Pro Per..

Soon,  Whiting and Gagon, Jenson, sorry, you to Deering and a few other cohorts will be before a Federal Bankruptcy Judge. This will bring things to a head much quicker than filing a complaint with the Arizona Corporate Commission and/or SEC. Bankruptcy fraud is serious stuff, plus all those assets he is trying to hide, well nice try.. The ACC will be there soon enough..

Why would I tell him all this on a blog? Because, I want him to know we have him in our crosshairs. I want him to sweat and look over his shoulder every fricking minute.. That bodyguard wont do him any good, nothing, I mean nothing, will keep Whiting from facing JUSTICE..

Too many devastated people, families and dreams. When the party is over, but you still have a product, penny ante thieves, full of their own BS and way way way out of their league, should just pack it in and turn it over to people who want to do the right thing. Instead he continiues to bleed it dry and threaten his investors with closing the project if they come after him.

Well, wrong day, wrong way, wrong guy..  Anyone that wants to join, email me or call me..

I just hope the game, Stargate Worlds, for the sake of the game, the hundreds of dedicated employees and the several thousand investors is not so contaminated that it dies, just before giving birth....

We will soon see..  We will also see if this group of non-confortational Mormons who have put in $30-$40 Million have any BALLS..

Bob,

I love your posts and information. But every time I read your stuff, it's like watching the Fox news channel -- on the verge of giving me hypertension.   Take it down a small notch buddy! 

Like Fox News you never know the audience.. From far left to far right only trying to reach the sensible people in between..

With CME/MMOGULS there are so many players, never know what buttons to push..

Thanks for the comment..

Im going to take a wild stab in the dark.....

But i think the op's title is true

I don't wana sound like a troll, but this game is doomed. I mean it's low budget, has absolutely no advertising (none that i have seen) and the audience it's trying to appeal to (sci-fi admirers like myself) is gona be taken by The Old Republic and hopefully Earthrise. I hope it succeeds though, the more, the merrier.

Originally posted by Kyriesunset

Bob,

I love your posts and information. But every time I read your stuff, it's like watching the Fox news channel -- on the verge of giving me hypertension.   Take it down a small notch buddy! 

Also, just like Fox News, the reporting is sided towards their take on things.

Originally posted by Wizzard7

 

Also, just like Fox News, the reporting is sided towards their take on things.

Granted, he is over the top, but there is no news on any other take on things.

Originally posted by Wizzard7

Originally posted by Kyriesunset

Bob,

I love your posts and information. But every time I read your stuff, it's like watching the Fox news channel -- on the verge of giving me hypertension.   Take it down a small notch buddy! 

 

Also, just like Fox News, the reporting is sided towards their take on things.

And just like the CNN watching, left wing ,Odumbba loving, liberal you are, you are sitting ion your double wide, living off your Government and State check spreading Bullshit about people who actually work and have accomplished something in their life..

Once again, why are you here, is it about the Game, because that's what all my post are about, CME, StarGate and MMOGULS, I havent seen you post one intelligent thing yet nor one piece of information regarding the topic..

By the way rookie, still waiting on that call from the AG, 214.587.3977...

Bob:

You really do believe that everyone that makes a post is me.  Or is it only those people who do not pat you on the back and make you out to be some type of hero. The guy was saying that he liked your posts but that you should tone it down a little. You are one sick and paranoid person. I really feel sorry for your family that they have to put up with you daily and have no way to turn you off.

Jack

Originally posted by JackArons

Bob:

You really do believe that everyone that makes a post is me.  Or is it only those people who do not pat you on the back and make you out to be some type of hero. The guy was saying that he liked your posts but that you should tone it down a little. You are one sick and paranoid person. I really feel sorry for your family that they have to put up with you daily and have no way to turn you off.

 

Jack

You misunderstood. He was commenting on the comment made after Kyrieesunset calling his take on it all 'slanted'. At least that's what I saw with the double quote. Calm down. :)

I don't know your history, but from the outside looking in, you jumped the gun a little on this one.

Originally posted by woolyfsh

Originally posted by JackArons

Bob:

You really do believe that everyone that makes a post is me.  Or is it only those people who do not pat you on the back and make you out to be some type of hero. The guy was saying that he liked your posts but that you should tone it down a little. You are one sick and paranoid person. I really feel sorry for your family that they have to put up with you daily and have no way to turn you off.

 

Jack

 

You misunderstood. He was commenting on the comment made after Kyrieesunset calling his take on it all 'slanted'. At least that's what I saw with the double quote. Calm down. :)

I don't know your history, but from the outside looking in, you jumped the gun a little on this one.

Woolyfish, Bob's take IS slanted.  He has a habit of defaming people to build himself up. Whiting may be a bad guy, but Bob's hands aren't clean, either.  Can you say "In pari delicto"?

He claims to have more "investors" for some project. I don't know if it's for Jaffa (his company), for the game, or for trying to impress people. Either way, let's talk about the game and not Bob Guenther!

As a librarian, I recognize there is very little that isn't slanted or biased as per the desire of the author or artist. History is filled with examples. :)

However, I agree. This is about SG:W and CME..

Anyone ever work out exactly what sort of dog/pony show CME put on for MGM to sign off on this project? I can't believe some schlub could have wowed the execs to have them sign off on partial rights of what would be considered a reasonably profitable franchise.. Talk about a 21st century Confidence Man!

Originally posted by woolyfsh

Anyone ever work out exactly what sort of dog/pony show CME put on for MGM to sign off on this project? I can't believe some schlub could have wowed the execs to have them sign off on partial rights of what would be considered a reasonably profitable franchise.. Talk about a 21st century Confidence Man!

Maybe MGM is full of Mormons too?  It's the only logical reason MGM keeps letting CME renegotiate the contract instead of just bringing down the hammer on the embarrassment CME has become to them and the franchise.    You know... the whole Mormon helping Mormon thing they like to do.

Originally posted by Kyriesunset

Originally posted by woolyfsh

Anyone ever work out exactly what sort of dog/pony show CME put on for MGM to sign off on this project? I can't believe some schlub could have wowed the execs to have them sign off on partial rights of what would be considered a reasonably profitable franchise.. Talk about a 21st century Confidence Man!

 

Maybe MGM is full of Mormons too?  It's the only logical reason MGM keeps letting CME renegotiate the contract instead of just bringing down the hammer on the embarrassment CME has become to them and the franchise.    You know... the whole Mormon helping Mormon thing they like to do.

It is a good question. Has MGM renegotiated the license or was the license for a fixed time frame that hasn't expired yet?  5-10 year licensing agreements aren't that uncommon.

CME has become an embarrassment to the franchise. Can't comment about morman based desicions at MGM but it is odd concideringthe existing  inter-company relationships that Sony isn't on board for the game and an unknown start-up was chosen.

Originally posted by ariccaron

It is a good question. Has MGM renegotiated the license or was the license for a fixed time frame that hasn't expired yet?  5-10 year licensing agreements aren't that uncommon.

CME has become an embarrassment to the franchise. Can't comment about morman based desicions at MGM but it is odd concideringthe existing  inter-company relationships that Sony isn't on board for the game and an unknown start-up was chosen.

I'm completely speculating here but...

If I were negotiating such a license, I would want assurances that MGM can't just yank it because "they said so". After all, who would invest $30-50 million if MGM could just pull it? Consider if GW ran MGM rather than the other way around, would you not want to be protected from him getting a "better deal" and pulling your license on some trumped up reason?

So, I would expect that clauses that would allow one to lose the license would be:

1. Mutual consent. That's a no-brainer, but in this case, GW won't do it unless he is paid off, and I bet MGM wouldn't want to reward his behavior.

2. Lack of payment. It's probably something like, pay X now, then Y at release and/or Z% of sales/subscriptions. But they likely paid the fee up front, and the back end charges aren't due yet.

3. Release within X amount of time. This may be the most likely clause to get the license back, but who knows how long they set? I would say 4-5 years is expected.

4. Other terms, like "fraud", or maybe "damaging the IP"--but the problem is that it would be up to MGM to prove it, and thus, require them to take CME to court over it, which could be damaging to both sides.

5. Bankruptcy. I would guess that the license is not an "asset" of CME, and is non-transferable upon sale or bankruptcy.

Thus, I would guess that MGM has decided that there is insufficient evidence of fraud or anything "subjective", and has decided to "wait out the clock", either on letting the time run out, or CME to go bankrupt.