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WAR (Warhammer Online) Forum » General Discussion » My accurate predictions for this game.

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90 posts found
  Scott762x51

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 42

First come smiles, then lies, last is Gunfire.

11/09/05 2:33:05 PM#21

Ya thats a good idea to have the person who initiates the PVP have a chance of losing something important to him.  They would think twice about ganking a low level if it meant that they lost something they really value.  But it would be hard because if its something in the backpack they could simply take everything out and then go PVP someone with no consequences.  I think it should be something they are holding or wearing and that the player surviving the attack would be able to pick it up.  Having gaurds appear to help you should be regulated on how far you are from civilization or  NPC's that will help.  There should also be items you can carry that randomly transfer you a certain distance from where you are standing so that you can evade an attack in a remote location where chances of calling help are slim but you should be forced to use this item before you attack the attacker to prevent using it to get away only after you have found out your going to lose the fight.  I dont think that the person who gets PVP'd and dies should suffer a penalty though since they didnt initiate it.  But the attacker needs to get something out of it if they win, other than entertainment.

I didn't mean that the career class was totally dedicated to PVP.  I just meant that they would be totally unrestricted in initiating PVP, due to their class, in the lawless areas unlike a class less inclined to attack someone for no reason.  They could leave those areas and do other things just like anyone else but I think it would provide a mix up to the regular gameplay allowing those classes to really play the role of an outlaw.  Outlaw classes are not just theives they are necromancers and other banned careers not accepted in towns.  In the warhammer game these people, if recognized, are put to death.  They have to wear disguises and such to prevent the gaurds noticing or a witch-hunter especially if you are practising dark magic.  I think the outlaw areas would help people to roleplay better.  I think that this game wont have this though because it gets fairly complex but i wish they would attempt something similar so that it adds something of the original games dark appeal.

http://home.comcast.net/~scott762x51/scott762x51.html

  checkthis500

Novice Member

Joined: 9/15/05
Posts: 1234

11/09/05 2:36:50 PM#22

I see what you're saying about the class thing.  Sounds like it would be pretty sweet.  I think there are bright things ahead for Warhammer Online.  I just can't wait to play it.

---------------------------------------------
I live to fight, and fight to live.

  Dark_Lord_13

Novice Member

Joined: 6/12/05
Posts: 248

11/10/05 12:28:54 AM#23

Originally posted by Scott762x51

Except for the idea that the UN serves some real purpose


Ok, so I don't even truly agree with that.  But the point was taken and recieved. 
  Azash_AT

Novice Member

Joined: 5/02/05
Posts: 24

11/13/05 8:44:23 AM#24

A game has to have some sort of controled pvp to be successfull.  However if conflict is a major part of the theme of the game then it has to be incorporated into the pvp of the game.  A line has to be struck somewhere to insure immersion and intensity of experience vs the ever present griefing that will always happen.

I have played, UO, EQ, Planetside, Shadowbane, and SWG.   There are two sides of griefing.  One is the legitimate one player killing another in some manner to be harrassing.  This should be controled in some manner as it drives about 60-70% of the potential players away from a game.  Low population means no fun for anyone.  The second aspect of griefing is one developers have to be wary of.  I have learned the hard way about this second aspect in games like EQ and SWG and to a lesser extent the early days of Shadowbane.  Some players consider being pked at all being griefed and are completely incapable of dealing with having there character killed.  These people can become just as much of an annoyance to the majority of the community (demanind nurfs, restrictions, segregated content, etc) as the guys who run around and gank lowbies next to the starting area (safeholds or whatever they are called).

SWG is a perfect illustration as to what happens when a conflict central to the experience of the game world is ignored by the developers and overly restricted.  In two years of constantly restricting and overly segregating the Galactic Civil War the central conflict of the storyline of the game is now completely ignored by the players.  Furthermore it is ignored by those that pvp and those that dont pvp!  The rationale being that an individual wishting to participate in the conflict should get his opponents pre screened by the developers by segregating a rebel mob from a rebel player.  This leads to Rebels/imperials attacking the Mobs of the other faction while other opponent players can only watch.  Which eventually caused the withdrawl of the PvP'ers from the entire circumstance into guild wars thus dividing the community.  The PvE'er GCW'ers eventually quit because there was no point or challenge to the conflict as it stood and it was dependent on players providing each other with targets yet not wanting to participate in the defense of that target.    I could go on further concerning the same nurfing, controling, and segregation of the Jedi v Bounty Hunter conflict but that is also being eliminated from the game because of player complaints overy dieing.  Same basic reasons as above just different specifics.

The point here is that to make a good conflict game and Warhammer is a conflict game you have to stike that all important balance!   PvP has to be there with enough freedom to generate player created content.  However there must be enough controls to stop rampant griefing that will drive the player population down!

 

 

A final misnomer.  Is that only pvp players will spend hundreds of hours to make there characters better than somone else just to be more powerfull.   I learned the falicy of this idea playing SWG where many a player who absolutely hates pvp spends the 100's of hours mind numbingly grinding the billions of xp necessary to become a Jedi.  Why?   Frankly so they can be more uber than all the other monster hunters.    The race to be uber as I discovered is not in anyway shape or form limited to pvp as a motivation!

  Scott762x51

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 42

First come smiles, then lies, last is Gunfire.

11/14/05 9:13:46 PM#25

Yes, I think this PVP stuff is what makes or breaks a game to some degree because people are fairly split on the idea.  Games lose lots of players by making PVP too uncontrolled while others lose players by not having it at all.  Both make the game less interesting because less people are playing it which further thins the players who are left.  My pesonal belief is that PVP is a necessity to the longevity of the game because you can only kill the same monsters over and over again until you get sick of it.  I gave some examples on what I would try to do but saying is one thing, doing another.  Its easy to control PVP in a paper RPG with 6 or 7 people playing but thousands at a time is another story.  But I do believe that PVP should be regulated on a realm level, such as designated areas or servers which you can go to and from freely with the same character, and further on the career type level.  Which is to say not eliminating it totally from the more law abiding classes, but setting rules and consequenses to govern it for those lawful types.

http://home.comcast.net/~scott762x51/scott762x51.html

  flea1

Novice Member

Joined: 5/29/04
Posts: 251

11/19/05 1:19:04 PM#26

why cant it just be simple no uber items. Mobs drop all items on them. Players drop all items on them. Potions banages simple magery circles. You die oh my i lost a sword and armor. Have somone run out slay an orc and give you the axe and armor.

Old uo had it right. Games have become overly to complex createing the i want the leet loot so i can roxxorz more newbs. Go back to basics add lots of different looking armor weapons that all do the smae thing made by the players. Now its a matter of player skill vs items ebayed or camped.

Orky Name Generator, only at www.bigchoppaz.com

  Dark_Lord_13

Novice Member

Joined: 6/12/05
Posts: 248

11/24/05 3:58:59 PM#27

The best way to do that isn't through "loot drops" but through crafting.  Everyone has the same ability to come by the same equipment, so long as the crafter is competant within the given system.  I cite this because of SWG prior to the Geonosian cave, all weapons were relativly on the same playing field even though some would have been more powerful than others, it was usually made up with the other person having slightly better crafted armor, or a weapon with a faster usage speed, etc.  It puts all weapons on the same field because any given "End game" level crafter can craft everything within the game, and therefore it's all an even playing field.  Yes, sometimes it comes down to who got the first hit in, but not always.  And it is a slightly competitive game to get the best materials (which are available to everyone btw.)  It promotes crafting alot, and to me was one of the best ways of keeping the field even.

I hated SWG after the Geonosian cave, Holocrons and Jedi, but anyway, that's beside the point, just had to throw that out there.

  Anofalye

Novice Member

Joined: 11/19/03
Posts: 7445

The enemy is so dumb! They believe that WE are the enemy! - A famous orc commander.

11/25/05 1:26:04 PM#28

I can't believe peoples want to be enslaved to a crafting system, not in Warhammer!  LOL.

 

I don't mind if there is a uber loot system or not (both way can be argued for Warhammer), as long as I can access every part of it without doing something I dislike (raiding, PvP, crafting).  If there is a part I can't access and it affect me in any serious way, I will do to the game the same I did to old EQ (took 2 years), DAoC (took 2 weeks) and WoW (took a day), without a second though.  But those are mere words, Warhammer get a try no matter what they do, I can discard it just like I discard Dawn or Chaos League in a few moments.

- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - René Levesque about the denial NO on the poll to his dream, project and goal. (Free translation)

  noblot

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/01/05
Posts: 287

Today is a good day to Pwn someone

12/02/05 10:47:39 PM#29

I think there has to be some objective in PvP, tower and relics (and central keeps in the battle grounds) give a focus to the play, as do quests; if that's control bring it on.

I pray it has dedicated PvE zones; some days I look forward to difficult gameplay, other times I just want to chill and spend 30 mins culling the MOBs.

Yuk, at the rate I die in PvP I would never have enough loot to play competively, and I would be back to level 1 by the end of the week if the was an XP penalty.

There has to be some development, both in PvE and PvP, otherwise what is the point? It is a RPG after all. Which is interesting since Warhammer doesn't really have character developement.

I find it interesting that both the "carebear" and pvp servers in DAoC have low population (compared to the classic servers). This rather promotes the view that players like a mixture of PvE and PvP experiences, and a more casual gameplay than the intensive play need for sucessful high end content (Trials of Atlantis expansion).

Finally messaging your foes? Bound to be abused. Trust me, no one likes having their corpse jumped on; that's enough to get the message through. After all what are you going to say? "You sux noob!! Ha Ha"

  Scott762x51

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 42

First come smiles, then lies, last is Gunfire.

12/03/05 1:40:52 PM#30

IMO I hope they dont separate the servers like they do in DAoC.  I think it would be better to have only maybe 4 separate servers and just have huge worlds that cater to as many peoples styles of play in each one. 

You could have:

1.  a PVE server,

2.  a PVP server that allows you to attack any NPC or PC at anytime, though if you are in a civilized area you will get chased by gaurds or something.  There has to be some sort of objective or consequence to PVP to help out the storyline and the new lowbies. 

3.  a Traditional RPG server where you make a somewhat randomly rolled character and have to stick with it and death is permanent but you also advance very, very quickly to make up for lost time from perma death and have fatepoints that allow you to save yourself from death or purchase better attributes and skills or help out an attack on something but you get only 4 of these points at first and only get more after completing huge epic quests.  PVP in this would be like in a paper RPG where you can do whatever you want including killing NPC's but there are consequences depending on where it takes place just like in the PVP server but to a more severe extent like getting hunted down by gaurds or witch hunters and lynched.  And if you get away you couldnt go back to that town for a long long time.

4.  the last server would be a classic type server where you have a mixture of PVP and PVE similar to DAoC realm war system.

http://home.comcast.net/~scott762x51/scott762x51.html

  Dark_Lord_13

Novice Member

Joined: 6/12/05
Posts: 248

12/03/05 1:59:32 PM#31

Originally posted by Anofalye

I can't believe peoples want to be enslaved to a crafting system, not in Warhammer!  LOL.


Believe it, in a game where a player can only have one character and the crafting system took up so much space in the players character creation, the crafter still thrived, because it was a fun way to play for many people.  SWG was based primarily on crafters, from day one, they changed it a bit along the way, and I have no idea what it's like now, but Crafters please people.  And trust me, SWG crafter grinding sucked, but people still loved doing it.  Crafting is fun for some people, especially if they are not limited to only crafting.

Crafting systems are great for level gameplay.  Loot systems are unbalancing, because it allows one, or one group of people to either camp a prize, and suddenly they're king of the hill.  I hate PvP of that nature. 

I choose crafting systems almost all the time.  My best friend's prefered characters are crafters.  He likes non-stressful gameplay.  He likes advancing his creations through the game.  And the more advanced the crafting system the better.  He likes putting the perfect puzzle together and creating the "perfect" weapon, or whatever.

People will always love that type of character.  Just becuase the bulk of the player base is combat oriented doesn't mean there aren't significant number of non-combat oriented players out there.  So my point is, don't say, I don't want it, therefore no one does, and expect everyone to agree.  I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but it's the way I interpretted what you said.  Being able to access a crafter system is easy, as long as the crafters are given the ability to offer to you their merchandise.  And most crafting based systems have that, and many have multiple ways.

  Dark_Lord_13

Novice Member

Joined: 6/12/05
Posts: 248

12/03/05 2:09:34 PM#32

Originally posted by Scott762x51

IMO I hope they dont separate the servers like they do in DAoC.  I think it would be better to have only maybe 4 separate servers and just have huge worlds that cater to as many peoples styles of play in each one. 

You could have:

1.  a carebear server,

2.  a PVP server that allows you to attack any NPC or PC at anytime, though if you are in a civilized area you will get chased by gaurds or something.  There has to be some sort of objective or consequence to PVP to help out the storyline and the new lowbies. 

3.  a Traditional RPG server where you make a somewhat randomly rolled character and have to stick with it and death is permanent but you also advance very, very quickly to make up for lost time from perma death and have fatepoints that allow you to save yourself from death or purchase better attributes and skills or help out an attack on something but you get only 4 of these points at first and only get more after completing huge epic quests.  PVP in this would be like in a paper RPG where you can do whatever you want including killing NPC's but there are consequences depending on where it takes place just like in the PVP server but to a more severe extent like getting hunted down by gaurds or witch hunters and lynched.  And if you get away you couldnt go back to that town for a long long time.

4.  the last server would be a classic type server where you have a mixture of PVP and PVE similar to DAoC realm war system.



Scott,

I usually enjoy your posts, even if I don't agree completely with them, and usually say nothing, but I must say this.  Just because people prefer PvE, doesn't make them automaticly a "Carebear"  and I dispise the term.  the term Carebear is just as degrading as the word "Ganker" is to a PvPer.  Some may enjoy being called that, but in my opinion, if you want to be taken seriously when posting, use the terms PvP and PvE, primarily because it's less threatining.

Now that I've gotten that off my chest,.... I agree, and hope they do the same, I like seperated servers to allow players to choose what they want to do.  I don't like the "Traditional RPG" server involving "Permadeath" simply because that would irritate me, due to my interpretation of "Roleplaying" is "Play-acting" i.e. acting out a role, with others present to advance the scene.  It's how I imagined Roleplaying, and although I know there are multiple different definitions of the word, it is somewhat deciving, to those who have their own understanding of the word "Roleplaying"   Anyway, I'm never fond of Permadeath games.  Just me.  Anyway, ranting now, so I'll stop.  Other than that, I hope you're right.

  Scott762x51

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 42

First come smiles, then lies, last is Gunfire.

12/03/05 7:48:07 PM#33

I just figured that was what everyone calls PVE now I dont dislike PVE actually I had just been reading someone elses post and the term stuck in my brain.  To tell you the truth I rarely play PVP myself so I am kind of a PVE person but I wasnt saying it in a bad way.  This was not meant to offend people who play that way.  but I like the idea of PVP which is why I write about it alot.  Here I will edit it to say PVE.

Ya RPG is a loaded term.  It doesnt really mean anything anymore.  Really everygame is a RPG because your acting as that character or faction in that game whether its FPS or strategy or whatever.   The paper rpg server is what it should be called.  The main purpose of this would be to cater to those who like the faster paced games.  You would advance quickly and there would be no grind at all just a good storyline and the ability to do whatever you want.  It would be made to allow you to quickly take part in any large scale war and play a significant role without having to play for months before even being able to see the good part of the game like in DAoC.  I think it would be better than people think.  It would be nothing like the old Diablo II hardcore server.  One of the appeals would be that the game should keep track of your dead characters and tell how they died and what your accomplishments were.  If it started to suck they could take away permadeath but i think it would be a fun way to play for people like me.

http://home.comcast.net/~scott762x51/scott762x51.html

  Scott762x51

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 42

First come smiles, then lies, last is Gunfire.

12/03/05 7:48:13 PM#34

hit the post button twice on accident.  I am writing while playing DAoC and I read and write posts while regenerating health.  I hate that about this game.  You have to sit and do nothing for like 2 full minutes just to play again.  Guild Wars has a good idea with rapid health regen once you are not in combat anymore.  I hope they do something similar with warhammer.

http://home.comcast.net/~scott762x51/scott762x51.html

  Dark_Lord_13

Novice Member

Joined: 6/12/05
Posts: 248

12/06/05 2:05:02 PM#35

Yea, the name "Carebear" does stick,  And lets face it, the names of that nature are always going to be around.  And I most certainly don't want any ill feelings to anyone on here.  So I hope you didn't mind my statements.

I wouldn't mind the quick regen out of combat as well.  It's a great idea.  A healing skill like in WoW wouldn't be so bad either.  1 thing I always hated about other games was you had to waste points on being able to heal yourself that you couldn't do some of the skills you would like to have.  I.E.  Ultima, SWG, CoH/CoV (in the Fitness pool of powers I mean)  And other games that I've played you always end up having to either spend points to keep yourself even slightly alive, or you had to group no matter what.  And dont' get me wrong, I like groups.  But sometimes I want to log in for like 20 minutes, and just do some stuff, and having to try to find a group, and get them to do what YOU want to do sux.  Especially when you are only going to be logged in for a short period of time.  Solo optional, is what I enjoy, simply because I can't always log in for 4 hours like some people can, and I want to log into a game that I'm enjoying, and do something that I can to advance my character, or other similar gameplay.

 

  Ravenmgs

Novice Member

Joined: 12/14/04
Posts: 158

12/10/05 7:56:51 PM#36

No one likes to be grieved, you people who feed off the misery of others need to get some sort of counseling and quit trying to use MMOs as an outlet to torment people.

On that note, I think there will be allot to gain from the PVP, possibly bases, and what not like Anarchy Online or Linage 2 or the RVR stuff in DOAC. For people who don’t want to have psychotic maniacs who masturbate while grieving people ruining their gaming experience, I don’t think any modern MMO maker will subject people to that as they would loose business to Blizzard / Sony ect..

  Scott762x51

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 42

First come smiles, then lies, last is Gunfire.

12/10/05 9:05:48 PM#37

Originally posted by Ravenmgs

On that note, I think there will be allot to gain from the PVP, possibly bases, and what not like Anarchy Online or Linage 2 or the RVR stuff in DOAC. For people who don’t want to have psychotic maniacs who masturbate while grieving people ruining their gaming experience, I don’t think any modern MMO maker will subject people to that as they would loose business to Blizzard / Sony ect..


LOL, you have a way with words.  Its true that I enjoy fighting with others sometimes in PVP but I don't grieve people.  I only insult a dead person if they started it with me and were trying to grieve me.  I think there should be a feature that allows someone to filter all PVP chat so they dont have to hear what the person that just beat them down is saying if they dont want to without having to actively type in a filter so and so command.  I usually get a good laugh from the insults.  Some people are very creative in their grieving.  Sometimes I dont care for it though and want to shut them up.  I am a firm believer that all MMO's need a non-PVP area that includes everything that is cool in the PVP part of the game so those who dont like PVP can play their own way.  I say this because thats how I play 60% of the time but sometimes I like to take my character and do some of what Ravenmgs described minus the masturbation part.


http://home.comcast.net/~scott762x51/scott762x51.html

  EliasThorne

Novice Member

Joined: 11/19/04
Posts: 332

12/12/05 3:56:17 AM#38

I wish all PvP'rs held the same non-griefing stand that you do Scott, its just a shame they don't by way of point I'll reference one of my last experiences of L2.

 

I was playing with a friend of mine who was happy going about a quest (I forget which as it was so long ago but you had to kill a specific number of critters near a pond), anyway there was a guy there who was tagging all the required creatures and as such blocking the quest - we asked him to leave it for a sec while he completed the quest, this guy just starts with a tirade of abuse to the point where the only option other than aborting the quest was to attack him, so my mate did that and this guys dies in seconds.

 

Unfortunately this flagged him for PvP and this guys team-mate turns up and kills him - usual stuff for PvP, yep you get an annoying guy and you can deal with him - all fair I say, what happened next was much more annoying.

 

My mate is now PvP flagged, which in L2 means you're fair game for anyone and he does the sensible thing and legs it, immediately he gets attacked by a total stranger and another and so on until he has a swarm of people chasing him just to get his loot when he dies!

 

Yeah it was sort of funny but it just shows how this sort of system fails, you start with a griefer (that is exactly what he was as I missed out a great deal of that part of the story as it was basically a tactic between him and his team-mate to get someone flagged for their gear abusing a quest bottleneck) and then the rest of the community join in to make things worse.

Currently Playing: GW2
Currently Following: Elder Scrolls Online
Games in my wake: Anarchy Online, Archlord (beta), Asheron’s Call, Asheron’s Call 2, City of Heroes, Dark Age of Camelot (SI to Catacombs), DDO, EVE Online, EverQuest II (beta), Guild Wars, Horizons, Lineage II,LORTO, Rift, RF Online (beta), RYL, Saga of Ryzon, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Vanguard, WAR, WoW

  vamps

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/05
Posts: 46

W oW suks

12/12/05 5:36:33 PM#39

see the first mmo rpg i ever played was lineage 2.... then i went to WoW and i was sooo god damn pissed at that game cause it was so carebear and no grind.... then i just kept playing L2 .. then i started and still am playing coh/cov and liking it even thoe no open pvp so i cant just go reap hell.. like in L2 i sit out side of gludin wit my lev 72 th stripped killing everything that moves in 1 hit with a hunter bow(3rd weakest bow in game) and plp hate me and i have over 500 pks but its a fuking blasts just shooting arrows and watching the lil bitches fall.... but in cov and coh i wanna kill so many lil bitches... sense warhammer is a mass killing board game i suspect that u will be able to open pvp everyone in un-arena areas...i dont think like if u were a orc u could kill another orc but perhaps a vampire count could kill another orc... i play warhammer with a 50k point army of vampire count .... u no for each race theirs usually 2 to 4 like bloodlines for vampires ther is.... and for chaos hordes theirs i think like hordes.... u no ..... i think u will be able to like pick like a bloodline in vampire counts case and not be able to open pvp your own bloodline .. but maybe another bloodline u could kill

lineage 2
dillign-30 active-teon

  Avitu

Novice Member

Joined: 12/18/03
Posts: 140

A satisfied customer...we should have him stuffed. (john Cleese)

12/20/05 5:28:18 AM#40

Originally posted by vamps

see the first mmo rpg i ever played was lineage 2.... then i went to WoW and i was sooo god damn pissed at that game cause it was so carebear and no grind.... then i just kept playing L2 .. then i started and still am playing coh/cov and liking it even thoe no open pvp so i cant just go reap hell.. like in L2 i sit out side of gludin wit my lev 72 th stripped killing everything that moves in 1 hit with a hunter bow(3rd weakest bow in game) and plp hate me and i have over 500 pks but its a fuking blasts just shooting arrows and watching the lil bitches fall.... but in cov and coh i wanna kill so many lil bitches... sense warhammer is a mass killing board game i suspect that u will be able to open pvp everyone in un-arena areas...i dont think like if u were a orc u could kill another orc but perhaps a vampire count could kill another orc... i play warhammer with a 50k point army of vampire count .... u no for each race theirs usually 2 to 4 like bloodlines for vampires ther is.... and for chaos hordes theirs i think like hordes.... u no ..... i think u will be able to like pick like a bloodline in vampire counts case and not be able to open pvp your own bloodline .. but maybe another bloodline u could kill


Right, so you're getting a blast ganking lowbies just outside the starting zones...tells a lot about what kind of player you are. Honestly, somebody mentioned permadeath here as somthing negative. For players like Vamps, who seem to enjoy camping a low level spot and ganking the lowbies, permadeath should be introduced (like in Age of Mourning: you gank, you get a warning, after a few warnings, your char dies, and it's permadeath).

Second Vamps, if you lie, please do it with a little more realism. From the way you write and from the way you behave, I estimate you to be somewhat between 10 and 13 years old. And you have a 50k point value Vamp Counts army? Yeah, right. I have a 14k Chaos army, and that's already a few a LOT of models (army showcase is full :p I have to store most of it in boxes). And God knows Chaos is expensive in points.

If you say you have a 50k points army, you are either:

a) lying, and not being very good at it (most probably)

b) not very good at counting

c) Overly spoiled by parents who MUST belong to the Onassis family (I don't wanna know how much a 50k points army costs)


 

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