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BioWare Mythic
MMORPG | Genre:Fantasy | Status:Cancelled  (est.rel 09/18/08)  | Pub:Electronic Arts
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WAR (Warhammer Online) Forum » General Discussion » Why did this game fail?

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131 posts found
  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16709

1/25/12 8:22:40 PM#41
Originally posted by youngkg

The system they used for pvp (RvR) didnt compliment the end game with just 2 sides going back and forth caping then losing then recapping....that kind of system needed 3 realms to be successfull, its just monotonous with only 2.

To top it off they cut there demographic in half trying to deliver 2 different experiences and failing at both.

Originally were each race supposed to have one city each and there were talk about being able to backstab the other side if things went too well. The whole keep thing was a last minute solution, the endgame was supposed to be more about sieges and less about small keeps.

Still, you are right. The lore to actually put greenskins and chaos on the same side is rather suspicious as well. They should have buffed chaos with skavens and greenskins with lizardmen or something and used 3 sides instead, it would have made RvR a lot more fun.

Adding bloodbowl as a scenario would also have made the game more fun.

  Zippy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/24/03
Posts: 1428

1/25/12 8:27:48 PM#42

It did not have a PvE raiding endgame.  Almost all games without a PvE raiding endgame fail.  PvP is simply not enough to keep people playing.

  xenogias

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/13/07
Posts: 1945

1/25/12 8:31:01 PM#43

It had a few issues and almost every single one of them was enough on its own to cause a person to leave. I'll name the ones off the top of my head that I can think of right now. Please keep in mind that I gave up on them fixing it about 3 or 4 months in. By that point the worlds where pretty dead. After that I can not speak to what they did or didnt do.

#1 Its launch was terrible. That caused ALOT of people to up and leave never to look back. There where so many bugs at launch it was honestly pretty pathetic. That tied into alot of the other issues I'm about to list.

#2 Beyond Tier1 the PvP was severly unbalanced. Tier1 was somewhat unbalanced but not so badly that it was unplayable.

#3 PvE was horrible. Beyond almost everything being buggy and/or broken (I'm lookin at you PQ's and instances).

#4 Sieges and open world PvP in general was badly done.  What fun is it to capture point trade for the most PvP points (forget what they are called after all this time).

There is alot more but I will stop there. What I will say is WAR had ALOT of great ideas. Mythic just did a terrible job of implimenting them and fixing bugs. I have to admit playing a melee combat healer was some of the best fun I have had in an MMO.

The ideas are why I have hopes for GW2. Alot of the same ideas but (if you believe what Anet is saying) much more polished and fleshed out.

  cagan

Novice Member

Joined: 6/16/04
Posts: 274

1/25/12 8:44:00 PM#44

Oh yea I completely forgot about the PQ's

It was all fine till I hit lvl 35 or so. After that every single PQ bugged or glitched. We worked for an hour to summon final boss (last stage) then boss appeared for 1 sec and Pq reset.

Another time kill 40 sorcerers mission would not advance beyond 37 or so...

In the final area only 1 pq worked out of 5 or so. We kept doing that 1 working pq and got boring after a while...it was so buggy...

  Comaf

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/13/10
Posts: 1134

I want an mmorpg where pvp matters, my enemies are not my race or class, and community matters.

1/25/12 9:01:36 PM#45

Originally posted by Yamota

I mean it brought alot of nice features to the MMORPG genre. Such as ability to viably level from level 1 to cap by doing just PvP,  PQ, defensive and offensive targetting, interesting mechanics like that of the BW and Disciple of Khaine.

Yet it recently announced merging of yet another round of servers to a total of two or three, globally, and probably will shut down completely before the end of the year.

But why is that? I for one spent 400+ hours playing it so it isn't that bad. Reason I left was because the end-game was/is junk, maybe that is it?

yup maybe dat wuz it.

 

In all seriousness, this company and the game it produced at the cost of sacrificing the most unique medieval pvp mmorpg of all time deserves to have its plug pulled.  The developers had absolutely no clue as to how to recreate the Games Workshop classes that Blizzard Entertainment so badly wanted (as Vivindi?) back in the day before they were forced to copy paste and make up their own version of nearly the same concept.  They did it far better, however.

 

The ui is terrible.  It's clunky to say the lease.

 

Broken pet pathing (White Lion, anyone?)

 

The aoe issue was always an issue, but there were other problems, like a Choppa being able to do more damage with a melee swing when he was a throwing range than an archer could with a ranged attack...

 

Absolutely boring mechanics - especially their rework of a brilliant pvp environment from Dark Age of Camelot - into 1 less realm and of course the eventual stagnation of one side being much larger/better led than the other (this always happens in 2 faction models, however).

 

On top of this, the developers deluded themselves into thinking they had someting viable (We are going to RvR you in the face!) and came up with a number of silly sales pitches and hat tricks, not to mention the best/worst used car salesman of all time, Paul Barnett - only he really did fail at selling his product.

 

The list goes on and on.  The point is, and sadly MOST folks have no clue as to what a three realm RvR mmorpg is, or what depth is, or immersion, or housing, or any of the expected things you'd see in an mmorpg before WoW released the McDonald's of mmorpgs in quality and creativity. 

 

We had a fantastic mmorpg that was in dire need of updating, i.e., Dark Age of Camelot.  But because Mythic was sold to EA, and because EA turned around in september of 2009 and fired a majority of the staff that made Dark Age brilliant (look it up), it became apparent, especially when Marc Jacobs was "let go" after Warhammer's failure became apparent in what was  making EA look like a Stalanistic purge.

 

Here's a sad quote when you know what happened the following year:

 

So we were faced with a choice. We could stay independent, and that had some risk. Or we could go with EA, and that also had some risk. What made the choice simple at the end was that EA said we were going to have the opportunity to not only make Warhammer the best game we could make it, but going forward, other games as well. That was pretty tough for us to turn down.   - Marc Jacobs.  http://www.gamespot.com/news/qanda-mythic-boss-mark-jacobs-6152975 

 

I honestly believe that Marc Jacobs had no idea he was murdering Dark Age of Camelot (which became apparent when in 2009 it was announced that we would finally get a new server, i.e., Origins, and then the plan was pulled with such lack of concern for the player base that no mention was ever made of it again, despite thread after thread begging for its inception).

 

Dark Age of Camelot was sacrificed so that Warhammer could succeed.  In the end, it failed miserably.  As a recourse, it's a shame that EA continues to refuse to revitalize an epic mmorpg like DAoC.  Now I know how the EQ1 folks, the Shadowbane people, Asheron's Call, Vanguard Saga of Heroes folks, and a few others feel about seeing their beloved title never brought into the 21st century.

 

It sucks.  And, in an industry where the ENTIRE CONCEPT OF THE MMORPG GENRE IS TO PROVIDE A FUN SOURCE OF ENTERTAINMENT - the developers have [I am a fuzzy bunny and I love to pick flowers] the diminishing intelligent part of the player base in order to appease the majority.  We live in a world where the majority thinks McDonald's is good food - so what does that say for the mmorpg industry?

 

/flustered. 

 

  youngkg

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/06/08
Posts: 364

1/25/12 10:33:20 PM#46
Originally posted by Loke666
Originally posted by Yamota

I mean it brought alot of nice features to the MMORPG genre. Such as ability to viably level from level 1 to cap by doing just PvP,  PQ, defensive and offensive targetting, interesting mechanics like that of the BW and Disciple of Khaine.

Yet it recently announced merging of yet another round of servers to a total of two or three, globally, and probably will shut down completely before the end of the year.

But why is that? I for one spent 400+ hours playing it so it isn't that bad. Reason I left was because the end-game was/is junk, maybe that is it?

They focused on the wrong group of players.

Mythic did have many fans from DaoC and Warhammer have millions of fans, but instead of making a game for either of both of those they tried to take Wows players (and said so in many interviews before launch).

Wows players love Wow. 

If Mythic either would have reskinned DaoC with Warhammer on top of it or used mechanics and the world from the Warhammer fantasy RPG things would have gone a lot better.

For Pete's sake, they did only make Altdorf right and that is just because GW said that they would pull their license if they didn't remake it. Warhammer is one of the best and most detailed worlds ever created and they got one city right, not to mention that they cut out everything adult and most of the nasty humor warhammer have.

The final nail in the coffin was when they cut out the entire endgame and half the content 6 weeks before launch, stating that it needed a little more polish and would be patched in soon but that never happened.

A good game must find the right group of players and make a game for them. STO did the same, they tried to make a game for casual MMO players instead of Trekkies which would have given them many faithful players.

I hope to see this ip again done the right way...not in EA's hands.I believe WAR had a release date before they announced the that the highlighted content would be cut and pasted in when it was ready....The game obviously wasnt ready but EA still forced this thing out 1 year before it was ready imo....

 

As for THQ's WAR 40k...well im skeptical but who knows...

  Jimmac

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/28/10
Posts: 1676

1/26/12 12:28:53 AM#47

Why did war fail? Because it was not fun. It was unfun. Why was it unfun? The combat abilities were simplistic and bland. The PVE was ultra linear. WAR was missing the gameplay mechanics from DAOC that allowed for awesome PVP strategy and tactics. The classes were kind of neat (like the dwarf with guns and grenades), but they simply were not fun to play in PVP. Whereas DAOC was like live action chess, WAR was like football with guns, minus any fun associated with football or guns.

  Mmocount

Novice Member

Joined: 2/19/10
Posts: 199

1/26/12 4:43:27 AM#48
Originally posted by youngkg
I hope to see this ip again done the right way...not in EA's hands.I believe WAR had a release date before they announced the that the highlighted content would be cut and pasted in when it was ready....The game obviously wasnt ready but EA still forced this thing out 1 year before it was ready imo....

 

As for THQ's WAR 40k...well im skeptical but who knows...

The game had already been delayed and funded for a whole year extra beyond the original release date and from day 1 of the delay Mythic was saying the game was practically done, they just wanted to 'polish' it. Considering how it still ended up in the end, you can't really blame EA for shoving it out the door eventually. Who's to say how much longer it would've take them to do it right.

  cagan

Novice Member

Joined: 6/16/04
Posts: 274

1/26/12 12:08:09 PM#49

I did preorder WAr and didnt cancel when they announced the 6 capitals were reduced to 2 and the other 4 will be released shortly after the game comes out.

I am still waiting....

  Scalebane

Novice Member

Joined: 10/28/06
Posts: 2240

1/29/12 9:54:14 AM#50

This is why companies should never ever ever ever ever get involved with EA the destroyer of game companies.

they don't give a crap about your small company they just bought out, they just want the cash and if you don't deliver you get ripped to shreds.

when will these companies learn to never sign up with the devil EA?  i dunno but they all have paid the price, hopefully bioware isn't next...

i know these companies need money but i'd rather die then take a cent from EA.  

Activision is just as bad anymore but lucky for blizz they don't have to answer to activision at all :)

"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas

  Skuz

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/25/08
Posts: 1041

"If you can''t laugh at yourself there''s always someone around to show you how it''s done!"

1/29/12 9:58:50 AM#51

Topic Necromancy, thought this dead horse had already been beaten to life & death a few times already.

  Comaf

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/13/10
Posts: 1134

I want an mmorpg where pvp matters, my enemies are not my race or class, and community matters.

1/29/12 10:00:05 AM#52
Originally posted by Jimmac

Why did war fail? Because it was not fun. It was unfun. Why was it unfun? The combat abilities were simplistic and bland. The PVE was ultra linear. WAR was missing the gameplay mechanics from DAOC that allowed for awesome PVP strategy and tactics. The classes were kind of neat (like the dwarf with guns and grenades), but they simply were not fun to play in PVP. Whereas DAOC was like live action chess, WAR was like football with guns, minus any fun associated with football or guns.

As always, someone always says it better than I.  Very nicely put!

 

DAOC = Live Action Chess.  Absolutely!

  Hrotha

Novice Member

Joined: 4/25/08
Posts: 840

1/29/12 10:04:43 AM#53

No idea why WAR failed exactly. I had a semi-good time. Played it right from the start and it was really something for 1-2months I enjoyed playing. I even came back twice. The cosmetic items really were interesting, along with the RvR. The character design was also very good imho (speaking of orcs and goblins). PvE on top of that, especially the instances were awesome designed! Really!

PvP lacked heavily of balancing at some points. But I cant tell you people why the sub-numbers dropped. At some point I quit this game, because it lacked of content. There was literally nothing frustrating which gave you a negative reason to quit.

So the conclusion might be: No expansion release. No interesting addons. As far as I remember it was as interesting as WoW in its vanilla state. But they somehow didnt put more effort in it to continue what they had developed.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

  RizelStar

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/11
Posts: 2823

We all breathe and we all die.

1/29/12 10:05:23 AM#54

These reasons are very familiar...interesting.

I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  Comaf

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/13/10
Posts: 1134

I want an mmorpg where pvp matters, my enemies are not my race or class, and community matters.

1/29/12 10:06:14 AM#55
Originally posted by Axxar

................>>

Had they just made Dark Age of Camelot 2 I think they would have been a lot more succesful.

That's it in a nutshell.  But from what I have read, it was Marc Jacobs who is to blame for assuming Dark Age of Camelot 2 (Or DAoC Redux) as he put it, was never going to happen.  As if DAoC was some disaster to be avoided.  And yet, since roughly 2004 when WoW killed the DAoC player base and Mythic just "gave up" instead of leasing a new engine, I have heard time and time again in general chat - man I miss DAoC, or I wish pvp was like in DAoC - and someone would reply, What's daoc?  And you'd get 23 people attesting to just how many great moments they had in the game.

 

Those old daoc'ers also say they can't go back because the game has sat since 2004 with no attempts to upgrade its visual quality and clunky UI. 

 

So how about it?  Is a developer ever going to have a bright light moment and push this game back onto the desk of the EA masters?

  Hrotha

Novice Member

Joined: 4/25/08
Posts: 840

1/29/12 10:07:17 AM#56
Originally posted by Comaf
Originally posted by Axxar

................>>

Had they just made Dark Age of Camelot 2 I think they would have been a lot more succesful.

So how about it?  Is a developer ever going to have a bright light moment and push this game back onto the desk of the EA masters?

Never have seen a single ressurected MMO in 14years. Have you?

  teakbois

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/06/06
Posts: 2190

1/29/12 10:09:50 AM#57
Originally posted by Yamota
 I hate EA and other big money gaming publishers which cares about one metric, which is money.

You act as if *any* publisher cares about anything else.  They dont.

  teakbois

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/06/06
Posts: 2190

1/29/12 10:13:18 AM#58

It failed beause the PvE was ultimately terrible and if you have a game that only targets the pure PvPers (a small part of the market) it had better be awesome PvP and it wasnt.  It wasnt bad, but it wasnt awesome.

 

It also seemed low tech compared to WoW.  WoW looked better, ran better, and had smoother gameplay.   It felt AAA alright, and WoW was the major leagues.

  Shadanwolf

Novice Member

Joined: 6/13/10
Posts: 1872

1/29/12 10:15:28 AM#59

I think Jacobs was determined to NOT make DAOC 2. No matter what the consequences. Heck they didn't even have keep fights and sieges  in the game in beta, until there was a tester revolt  causing them to shut down beta for 6 months, until they put the feature in the game...half done and poorly executed.

I think players were hoping for the next generation of DAOC an didn't get it.I also think all developers were required to undergo a lobotomy as a condiction of employment ..if they had any connection with DAOC. Seriously....all the hard lessions and failures of DAOC were completly ignored.Player feedback in beta..uggh.I have never seen such controls restricting/limiting  player feedback. It seemed to me Jacobs had the entire game figured out and was determined to do it HIS way.He got HIS way...and millions of dollars in losses for this employer.

Others brought in after the debacle.....just don't have a clue what great RVR is all about.Today on other games....SWTOR for example......no clue and frankly no interest in RVR as you can readily see with the Illum mess.

  snapfusion

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/17/11
Posts: 976

1/29/12 10:16:11 AM#60

Its pretty simple, there was really only ONE thing to do at end game and everything in between was just massive repetition.  To me affter about a week I felt like I had been trapped in one of Wows battlegrounds but couldnt leave que.

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