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BioWare Mythic
MMORPG | Genre:Fantasy | Status:Cancelled  (est.rel 09/18/08)  | Pub:Electronic Arts
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WAR (Warhammer Online) Forum » General Discussion » Why did this game fail?

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131 posts found
  User Deleted
1/11/12 7:57:53 AM#21
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by dreamsofwar

Why are people talking about WAR in the past tense, the game is still live isn't it?

well...its hair and nails are growing, but machines are beating its heart and doing its breathing.

 

its live but in coma.

Subjectively, an inflammatory joke at the game's expense except the game has very few fans on this forum so I wouldn't be afraid of a fanboy retaliation. Objectively, I would say it's because I don't play it any longer. If I still played I would be more prone to talk about it in present tense.

  Zandramas666

Novice Member

Joined: 9/08/07
Posts: 21

1/11/12 8:03:28 AM#22

i left for these reasons:

 

- only 2 capitals

- insane lag in capital fight instance (unplayable)

- keep siege wasnt the fun i hoped it would be (playing and enjoying daoc right now)

 

  Yamota

Elite Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6501

"I fight so you don't have to."

 
OP  1/11/12 8:46:51 AM#23
Originally posted by Plasmicredx
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by dreamsofwar

Why are people talking about WAR in the past tense, the game is still live isn't it?

well...its hair and nails are growing, but machines are beating its heart and doing its breathing.

 

its live but in coma.

Subjectively, an inflammatory joke at the game's expense except the game has very few fans on this forum so I wouldn't be afraid of a fanboy retaliation. Objectively, I would say it's because I don't play it any longer. If I still played I would be more prone to talk about it in present tense.

There is nothing subjective about the game being reduced, from 40+ in its prime, to two in the West. The game IS dying, it is just a question about when EA pulls the plug. They are probably just squezing the last drop they can from it. I hate EA and other big money gaming publishers which cares about one metric, which is money.

  User Deleted
1/11/12 8:54:38 AM#24

It's subjective for me because I thought it was a funny joke and my personal feelings actually did lead me to think the same thing. Nothing wrong with a little self-governing, eh?

  Mmocount

Novice Member

Joined: 2/19/10
Posts: 199

1/11/12 9:02:53 AM#25
Originally posted by Fadedbomb
I was in Alpha, Beta, and left before launch as I saw it's inevitable demise. Here are the following reasons why Warhammer "failed".
 
 
 
-Mythic was given the IP by GamesWorkshop after realizing how DAOC was very similar to the Warhammer IP, and how LOVED DAOC was. HOWEVER, GamesWorkshop later told Mythic (2yrs into development) that they COULD NOT do a 3-realm RVR system, and that the "Lore Limitations" would force Mythic to do odd factional splits. HOWEVER, I've been told by thousands of fans now that, in fact, GamesWorkshop was full of crap and only wanted to feed off of WoW's success not realizing that Warhammer =/= WoW. A 3-Realm system WOULD have worked, but GamesWorkshop dropped the ball ON TOP OF MYTHIC'S FACE.
 
 
 
-EA acquired Mythic about a year or two into development, and subsequently forced Mythic, with GamesWorkshop's support, to go a more "traditional" WoW-clone gameplay type with HEAVY linear questing. Additionally, the "attachment" of EA onto Mythic's work caused a LOT of people to simply cancel their pre-orders because of the HUGE stigma revolving around EA's titles.
 
 
 
-6months from launch EA started funneling funds AWAY from Mythic's Warhammer development for an "unknown" title at the time. This left Mythic, in a CRUCIAL time in development & deployment, with fewer resources than they needed resulting in a VERY buggy launch. NOT TO MENTION that EA FORCED a "release date" on Mythic's developers for Warhammer Online. The end result was a highly buggy almost content-less product that people flocked away from in DROVES post-FreeMonth.
 
 
 
All in all, Mythic was completely destroyed by their accepting the Warhammer IP. GamesWorkshop ended up manhandling them at their two-year development mark, and THEN with the acquisition of Mythic under EA's banner it only got worse. Today, Mythic is a "shadow" of its former self with more than 70% of it's development team having been cannibalized for SWTOR, or they simply quit due to the environment they were thrust into. Sadly, we will NEVER see a DAOC II as EA would most assuredly screw that up completely.
 
 
 
Hope this helped,
-Faded
 

 

Far too much blaming EA in this in my opinion.

 

Some things to remember:

* Without EA Mythic would've ran out of money before finishing the game

* After EA took over, they allowed and funded the extension of the game's release date by a *full year*  (While Mythic at the start of the year was already continuously stating the game was 'pretty much done' and that the extension was to really polish it well. 'Polish' being the favorite keyword back then due to the WoW)

*Before EA took over the game and at least a while after that, the game was all about scenario's, not Open RvR. The design before and after release just screams it, not to mention that despite their 'reduction of the importance of scenario's' they still played a massive role on zone control. ORVR did not become a focus for WAR till the beta cry-out, when it became apparent that taking flags and having standoffs at warcamps wasn't quite that interesting when that's all there is.

 

Imo that lastpart is where it seriously went wrong. The beta was closed down and after it came back the focus has suddenly changed to ORvR and that was when finally the first mention ever came of actually having forts in the game ( the last year)

And they had to, because that's what everyone wanted and everyone expected. And why was that? Because they had made zero, zip, nada effort to reduce hype surrounding it that was touting it as the best RvR game to be for decades. Instead they went with it, and by the time it was getting to completion the hype was so strong that the game they had simply didn't fullfill that want at all.

 

Do I think the original design with high focus on scenario's would have been a WoW-killer or even a great game? Probably not. It would not have been what people wanted and it would have lost a lot of people based on that. However! I would have been a far better game, by design, than the game they ended up with. Because the scenario version had built in population control (max per scenario), while the ORvR version simply got crippled by it.  Nothing's dumber than a two sided Tug--O-War design with no strength control between the two opponents.

  Clerigo

Novice Member

Joined: 12/01/10
Posts: 400

Healing Over Time since 2004

1/11/12 9:15:12 AM#26

For me was the horrible launch. The game was severely bugged, under-performed on my machine and it just took away the fun.

When i resubbed a couple of months later the game was in much better shape, and i actually had fun playing it. There were many things done well, but the ppor focus on PvE and the spiral around PvP changes, and changes again, and changes brought me to a spot where i could not continue to play the game.

Also, when i resubbed, the CE was selling for 19.90 euros at the same spot where i bought my pre-order for almost 70 euros...i always fail to shake that "i have been cheated" feeling in these situations. I bought a product that was not ready to be launched, as there is a storm of S"#i to ask for refunds, i had to eat my hat and wait for the devs to patch the game.

Even so, like i said in many others threads, i will always have this feeling that this game could had made the top ranks of subscription mmorpgs. It is really a world of its own, full of well designed ideas (and ofc not so good ones also) and the renown rank system is just something i would like to see in every mmorpg.

Ill be missing my white lion and swordmaster, but there is nothing that can be done to avoid the tumbling down the rabbit hole, to oblivion (not the game...).

  Marcus-

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/28/06
Posts: 968

1/11/12 9:52:00 AM#27

I think it was a few reasons..

 

One being, when they said we would be able to sack the opposing factions capital city, i personaly wasn't expecting to be lighting trash barrels on fire (or some such) in instance number 1125. Invading a capital city was what i thought was going to be a highlight of the game, and it was probably the most deflatring thing i have ever seen in my gaming life.

 

Two, attacking keeps in this game was such a step backwards from DAoC, i can't even beging to fathom what they were thinking.

 

Three, class balance was pretty horrific at the start, bomb groups could really wreck havok on just about anything. Take those, and put them in premade vs. pug BGS, only compounded peoples lack of enjoyement.

 

Just a few of my thoughts, but there was a lot of reasons, a shame really.

  Yamota

Elite Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6501

"I fight so you don't have to."

 
OP  1/11/12 10:07:33 AM#28

Yeah it was a real shame because the game did innovate on many levels. It was far more innovative than for example SW:TOR but I guess it shows that innovation is not enough. You need proper execution as well as meeting expectations.

  kakasaki

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/11/06
Posts: 1260

"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!"

1/11/12 10:13:28 AM#29
Originally posted by Sovrath

I thought the sieges were poorly done.

I had no plans to play this game but picked it up on a whim and found I was having more fun in scenarios and public quests than I had in a very long time.

Problem was, for me at least, I was expecting the sieges to be epic and a main part of this game. Instead I learned that the whole thing was about "flipping keeps".

There was no pride in ownership, no reason to take a keep other than to come back to it and take it again for more points.

the RvR part floundered as there didn't seem to be reasons to do it but people did flock to the scenarios which took away from the RvR.

Besides the fact that there were numerous bugs and issues.

The PvE was pretty lackluster.

I sometimes think devs are a bit clueless about things. I was talking to a developer at PAX who was not associated with Warhammer and we were talking about pvp and pve and the topic of Warhammer came up. I'm hoping he was just being diplomatic but when I said that they didn't do pve all that well and explained that I could pull a guard and the guard next to him who was talking wouldn't even noticed as the first guard came to attack me, he said "well, that's not what they do, not their thing".

My thougth was "really?" My girlfriend could see that was a flaw and she doesn't even play games.

It's a shame because they had a lot of areas where a lot of work went into them but that players rarely go to.

 

That is what did it for me too. I gave the game a year but since the RvR was pointless, really saw no reason to saty. Pity because the scenarios were a blast!

A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...

  zimboy69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/09/08
Posts: 348

1/15/12 6:24:46 PM#30

i loved warhammer online

 

the sad thing was two sides  and where are the  skaven 

a player race of skaven would have been amazing

warhammer would have been amazing with 6 sides and if it didnt suffer from huge lag

 

 

but it reminded me of days in xroads when wow first came out  but nothing comapired to the 100-200+battles i saw in warhammer it was quite exciting

 

 

 

  Ikeda

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/07/10
Posts: 1952

1/15/12 6:25:56 PM#31

The pulling of the Slayer class at launch lost me immediately.

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16464

1/15/12 6:36:24 PM#32
Originally posted by Yamota

I mean it brought alot of nice features to the MMORPG genre. Such as ability to viably level from level 1 to cap by doing just PvP,  PQ, defensive and offensive targetting, interesting mechanics like that of the BW and Disciple of Khaine.

Yet it recently announced merging of yet another round of servers to a total of two or three, globally, and probably will shut down completely before the end of the year.

But why is that? I for one spent 400+ hours playing it so it isn't that bad. Reason I left was because the end-game was/is junk, maybe that is it?

They focused on the wrong group of players.

Mythic did have many fans from DaoC and Warhammer have millions of fans, but instead of making a game for either of both of those they tried to take Wows players (and said so in many interviews before launch).

Wows players love Wow. 

If Mythic either would have reskinned DaoC with Warhammer on top of it or used mechanics and the world from the Warhammer fantasy RPG things would have gone a lot better.

For Pete's sake, they did only make Altdorf right and that is just because GW said that they would pull their license if they didn't remake it. Warhammer is one of the best and most detailed worlds ever created and they got one city right, not to mention that they cut out everything adult and most of the nasty humor warhammer have.

The final nail in the coffin was when they cut out the entire endgame and half the content 6 weeks before launch, stating that it needed a little more polish and would be patched in soon but that never happened.

A good game must find the right group of players and make a game for them. STO did the same, they tried to make a game for casual MMO players instead of Trekkies which would have given them many faithful players.

  Neiko

Novice Member

Joined: 8/07/06
Posts: 630

1/18/12 3:47:27 PM#33

I skimped the last two pages a bit, but here is why it failed for me overall.

 

Only 2 factions in a RvR based game. (I mean... Really? Let's take DAOC, take what is good about it, and then take it out... <_< )

No incentives to really fight in rvr (This is more or less a showing of the times, where people are not willing to have fun for the sake of fun, but sometimes it really just wasn't worth it)

Balancing issues. Destro had a decently large population compared to Empire. Their reaction to this? First they gave empire more exp/renown to try and have people go over there. Next reaction? Buff empire classes but not destro counterparts.

AOE issues/zerging. AOE ruled the game. It was pretty much bright wizard or go home past t2. They implemented ways to fix this in the choppa/slayer, but didn't use it in the old classes (Does AOE up to x amount of targets is how it should be done in a game like this)

Performance/Visual. Pretty much self explained. Visuals were not great (I loved the style though), and it ran like crap on most systems.

Lack of PvE players. A lot of the public quests were great, they were also the first (IIRC anyways) to implement it. The problem was, if you did PvE, you did not level up your renown. So everyone just did scenarios 90% of the time and played merry go round with the keeps to keep their renown up.

Liner skill tree system. It really was crap.

Their "fix" to lag in zones with high amounts of people was not letting new people in.

A side note, I really wanted to see the orc capital, but that never came to plan.

---------------

  channel84

Novice Member

Joined: 10/19/06
Posts: 600

1/18/12 4:25:36 PM#34

Broken class balancing issue made me quit that game

  Scorchien

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/12/06
Posts: 1080

1/18/12 4:27:24 PM#35

Scenarios killed this game ..

  GTwander

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/09
Posts: 6125

LARPer Hunter

1/18/12 4:29:09 PM#36

The universal cooldowns, it made strategy pointless since you could spam your best attack repeatedly. I couldn't play past tier one because PvE was boring, and leveling through PvP instead involved winning every match as a Maurauder using nothing but Impale, and still getting a 20+ kill to 2-3 death ratio. I only died because playing smart made it way too unfair for the others.

I can only imagine the design team muttering "hurrrrr" all day from their undeserved offices.

Writer / Musician / Game Designer

Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture

  Axxar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/09/08
Posts: 1952

"See how I reward those who fail me!"

1/21/12 2:55:23 PM#37

Combat glitches and combat responsiveness prevented basic combat gameplay from being fun.

The client performed very poorly, especially in large battles. A big problem for an open world PvP game.

Initially intended to focus PvP on instanced scenarios, the game was, based on player feedback, retrofitted into an open world RvR game. This didn't work in a two-faction game as one faction would continuously dominate on a server.

The game world was very fragmented with loading screens between zones. This prevented the game world from having that immersive feel many players look for in an MMO.

 

The game did have some great features, such as Public Quests, PvP leveling, PvP tanking and a lack of permastealth classes. It also easily had the coolest orcs ever seen in any game.

Had they just made Dark Age of Camelot 2 I think they would have been a lot more succesful.

Currently playing: Divinity: Original Sin, FTL, Hearthstone and Skyrim.
Eagerly anticipating: Camelot Unchained, Elite: Dangerous, Legend of Grimrock 2 and Star Citizen.

  Axxar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/09/08
Posts: 1952

"See how I reward those who fail me!"

1/21/12 2:59:54 PM#38
Originally posted by Ikeda

The pulling of the Slayer class at launch lost me immediately.

The Slayer class never existed prior to launch. It was the Hammerer that was pulled before launch, and was never seen again. Later they added the Slayer as a replacement.

Currently playing: Divinity: Original Sin, FTL, Hearthstone and Skyrim.
Eagerly anticipating: Camelot Unchained, Elite: Dangerous, Legend of Grimrock 2 and Star Citizen.

  youngkg

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/08
Posts: 364

1/24/12 2:08:16 AM#39
Originally posted by Yamota

Yeah I always thought, and still think (looking at you SW:TOR), that copying WoW is a misstake. I mean what are they thinking? I will take WoW and add some features and bling bling and then all the sudden WoW players will play their game instead?

Nevermind that WoW is/was already established and had a ton of content which a new game cannot possibly have.

The only one that can kill WoW is Blizzard and maybe with Kung Fu Panda they started that?

However I personally felt the RvR focus of WAR did separate it from the pack, but I guess it just wasnt well implemented.

The system they used for pvp (RvR) didnt compliment the end game with just 2 sides going back and forth caping then losing then recapping....that kind of system needed 3 realms to be successfull, its just monotonous with only 2.

 

To top it off they cut there demographic in half trying to deliver 2 different experiences and failing at both.

  cagan

Novice Member

Joined: 6/16/04
Posts: 273

1/25/12 8:17:52 PM#40
Originally posted by Axxar

Combat glitches and combat responsiveness prevented basic combat gameplay from being fun.

The client performed very poorly, especially in large battles. A big problem for an open world PvP game.

Initially intended to focus PvP on instanced scenarios, the game was, based on player feedback, retrofitted into an open world RvR game. This didn't work in a two-faction game as one faction would continuously dominate on a server.

The game world was very fragmented with loading screens between zones. This prevented the game world from having that immersive feel many players look for in an MMO.

 

This...

I remember the 20v20 rvr battles where I was getting 0.2 fps (thats 1 frame per 5 secs) on my super desktop computer and then crashing to desktop...

Then we discovered walking inside walls to capture castles...

Then we discovered to bug/glitch keep commander so the enemy can never take the castle...

then I uninstalled....

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