---

Originally posted by Getalife

---

Originally posted by spyder2k5

---

Originally posted by Mmocount

---

Originally posted by spyder2k5 First off, this is based on actual population scans from within the game. Population numbers on all server(I check them all) have remained the same at peak, and in off hours it has been roughly the same as normal for off hours.This game is just a bit over 2 years old, of course it had more 2 years ago. That does not mean the current population is not sustainable or stable, because guess what? It is, and it is.I speak truth and fact, not lies and false hatred like you, someone who does not even play the game.

---

 
My statement was on your statement that pop was stable over the last 1-2 years.
So let's take at face value that you have 'checked' pop numbers, across all servers, across all realms, over the last few years. 
Then the truth should be staring you in the face. No, it is not possible for a game to have the same peak and off peak numbers across all servers, yet have shrunk by about ~60 servers to 2(assuming US) in the meantime(assuming 2 years).
-----------------------
Assuming the above, yet still looking at your statement I'm guessing you're simply not explaining yourself well enough or I'm not understanding you. It's not possible for pops to be stable yet the game to shrink, so something is off.
 
As for current pops possibly being sustainable/stable. I never said otherwise. What I *did* say was that since release the pop has only shrunk and shrunk. Which it has, which was obvious when server, after server, after server started complaining of pops and eventually got merged. The Frenchies being the latest of that bunch which is happening right now basically.

---

Population at launch and a year after was a bit higher then the past year to a year and a half, correct but since about 1 1/2 years ago the population has not shurnk, it has been stable and is sustainable.
People always complain, its a fact of life, but I stick by my scans, as they are taken from ingame with REAL data.

---

Actual population scans? ROFL!!!! we should just take your word for it? where is this data that you accumlated over an year? post us a link or something otherwise i am calling bull*** on this one.

---

I am getting really tired of hostility coming from people like yourself. It really makes it hard to hold a conversation that is worth anything.

If you want numbers its easy goto: http://war.curseforge.com/addons/warcensus/ get that addon get the free trial, and do a few scans at random times throughout the day, night, weekends, for the next year or so like I have.

Population in late '09 was peaking at 700 on the busiest servers, as of '10 it was 300-500 per faction, per server at peak. That is the same as recently.

Now in offpeak hours it ranges from 125-175, and has been so for more than a year now.

I was just online and did a scan of 148 players. Now be mindful this is the morning hours, and as most players are at school/work this is expected population.

Might not seem like much to the average person, but be certain it is plenty for RvR. I have been in several battles in the past week alone that had 20-30+ players on both sides. This is oRvR, SCs pop regularly during peak hours and things gameplay wise have never been better. This includes all tiers, I have characters in all , and have had no issues finding RvR on all.

The proof is there, if you seek it out.

Does the population really matter to the theme park genre of games anymore. instanced battle grounds with people from other servers. Instanced dungeons withthe same. The population you see will only be in the towns. it's not like you need anyone to quest so really why ask this question. MMOs are heading towardds  the single player mentality. All anyone wants anymore is to see someone run by, know it's a person but god forbid they want to group together to take your xp/loot.

Originally posted by spyder2k5

On your merit of "we should just take your word for it", I will use that same line on you, seeing as you obviously hate the game, have not played it in quite some time, and want to start a flame war instead of properly contributing to a conversation, yes your word is much more believable then mine.
You want numbers? I can give you numbers based on actual population scans, of a census addon, from within the game. These scans do not include hidden players that don't make themselves visible but it does give a rough understanding of the ingame population.

I am getting really tired of hostility coming from people like yourself. It really makes it hard to hold a conversation that is worth anything.

If you want numbers its easy goto: http://war.curseforge.com/addons/warcensus/ get that addon get the free trial, and do a few scans at random times throughout the day, night, weekends, for the next year or so like I have.

Population in late '09 was peaking at 700 on the busiest servers, as of '10 it was 300-500 per faction, per server at peak. That is the same as recently.

Now in offpeak hours it ranges from 125-175, and has been so for more than a year now.

I was just online and did a scan of 148 players. Now be mindful this is the morning hours, and as most players are at school/work this is expected population.

Might not seem like much to the average person, but be certain it is plenty for RvR. I have been in several battles in the past week alone that had 20-30+ players on both sides. This is oRvR, SCs pop regularly during peak hours and things gameplay wise have never been better. This includes all tiers, I have characters in all , and have had no issues finding RvR on all.

The proof is there, if you seek it out.

I obviously hate the game? and how you guessed that? from my one post questioning your credibility and pulling numbers out of thin air? {mod edit}

Originally posted by Bruise187

Does the population really matter to the theme park genre of games anymore. instanced battle grounds with people from other servers. Instanced dungeons withthe same. The population you see will only be in the towns. it's not like you need anyone to quest so really why ask this question. MMOs are heading towardds  the single player mentality. All anyone wants anymore is to see someone run by, know it's a person but god forbid they want to group together to take your xp/loot.

The only game that comment of yours is relavent to is WoW, WAR does not work that way, at all.

Originally posted by spyder2k5

Originally posted by Bruise187

Does the population really matter to the theme park genre of games anymore. instanced battle grounds with people from other servers. Instanced dungeons withthe same. The population you see will only be in the towns. it's not like you need anyone to quest so really why ask this question. MMOs are heading towardds  the single player mentality. All anyone wants anymore is to see someone run by, know it's a person but god forbid they want to group together to take your xp/loot.

 

The only game that comment of yours is relavent to is WoW, WAR does not wrk that way, at all.

Well, it applies to more games than WoW, but for WAR, population matters if you are RvRing at end game, if you're doing endless trial and just doing the battlegrounds it's kind of a moot point.

Originally posted by daelnor

Originally posted by spyder2k5

Originally posted by Bruise187

Does the population really matter to the theme park genre of games anymore. instanced battle grounds with people from other servers. Instanced dungeons withthe same. The population you see will only be in the towns. it's not like you need anyone to quest so really why ask this question. MMOs are heading towardds  the single player mentality. All anyone wants anymore is to see someone run by, know it's a person but god forbid they want to group together to take your xp/loot.

 

The only game that comment of yours is relavent to is WoW, WAR does not wrk that way, at all.

Well, it applies to more games than WoW, but for WAR, population matters if you are RvRing at end game, if you're doing endless trial and just doing the battlegrounds it's kind of a moot point.

For end game RvR the numbers are more than fine.

Originally posted by daelnor

Originally posted by spyder2k5

Originally posted by Bruise187

Does the population really matter to the theme park genre of games anymore. instanced battle grounds with people from other servers. Instanced dungeons withthe same. The population you see will only be in the towns. it's not like you need anyone to quest so really why ask this question. MMOs are heading towardds  the single player mentality. All anyone wants anymore is to see someone run by, know it's a person but god forbid they want to group together to take your xp/loot.

 

The only game that comment of yours is relavent to is WoW, WAR does not wrk that way, at all.

Well, it applies to more games than WoW, but for WAR, population matters if you are RvRing at end game, if you're doing endless trial and just doing the battlegrounds it's kind of a moot point.

 Actually most of the action, even in T1 with endless trials happens in open RvR, not the instances (scenarios). Yes scenarios happen regularly, but thats inbetween the usual groups of about 30-50 people on each side fighting constantly in te first RvR area. Thats just in the Chaos vs Empire zone. The other 2 zones arent usually a sbusy, but there does tend to be some smaller scale action pretty consistently.

Even with the scenarios, population still matters. The queues wont pop unless there are enough people, and then there ar ematter sof balance. Sometimes youll get stuck vs a good premad ethat just roflstomps your entire team in the scenario. If theres only that small group of people playing, youre going to continue losing badly over and over again. With a healthy population, youll be going up against various groups of people rather than that 1 premade all the time.

Originally posted by Mmocount

Originally posted by kaiser3282

Originally posted by Mmocount

Originally posted by kaiser3282

 

 6 servers... 50k each... that sounds like 300k to me. Your logic seems flawed.

... rofl. Try thinking about it next time :)

 Think about what? im not saying your numbers are accurate or not, but do you not understand simple math?

 

You said it used to have 300k players, now its only 50k per server.

there are 6 servers.

50k per server (your own words)

50 x 6 = 300

elementary school math skills ftw

I said 300k. I wasn't sure how many servers were left for the moment so I said 300 divided by 6 = 50k or what?

The point being that I made up (and yes divided) that number myself.

 

The thing to think about, which you seemed to have missed, is that a server won't *have* 50k people on it. Just assume for a second that even at best primetime the game would only have ... 50% or so playing the game. When's the last time you saw 25 thousand people online on your server?

Not probably, because they'd be providing emergency medcare to the hamsters running them :)

 Again, im not arguing the numbers with you. I knwo your numebrs are not correct and you pulled them out of your ass. The point was, you were trying to argue with someone who said the pop ha sbeen stable the past 1-2 years, and your argument was that 1-2 years ago WAR had 300k players, but now they only have 50k per servers.

So let me try this again.

You said it used to have 300k players.

You said pop isnt stable because now they have 50k per servers.

6 servers... 50k per server... thats 300k

300k = 300k

That would mean pop is exactly the same now (300k) as it was 1-2 years ago (300k).

Basically you said, the pop has decreased, but they still have the exact same pop as before. Makes no sense right? Yeah i know....

Oh does warcensus still work? I've been using the Whom addon for my scans but I liked Census  better when I had it installed before. Spyder you also forgot to mention that those 148 people in the morning hours were for one side, not both factions together.

Originally posted by daelnor

Originally posted by spyder2k5

Originally posted by Bruise187

Does the population really matter to the theme park genre of games anymore. instanced battle grounds with people from other servers. Instanced dungeons withthe same. The population you see will only be in the towns. it's not like you need anyone to quest so really why ask this question. MMOs are heading towardds  the single player mentality. All anyone wants anymore is to see someone run by, know it's a person but god forbid they want to group together to take your xp/loot.

 

The only game that comment of yours is relavent to is WoW, WAR does not wrk that way, at all.

Well, it applies to more games than WoW, but for WAR, population matters if you are RvRing at end game, if you're doing endless trial and just doing the battlegrounds it's kind of a moot point.

NOIR, you old wet duck...WAR is where you have been hiding? we don't see you on Malestorm anymore..*cries*

Originally posted by spyder2k5

 

---

Originally posted by Mmocount

---

Originally posted by spyder2k5

---

---

Population has been stable for at least the past 1-2 years. I have done population scans and numbers have remained about the same.

---

Stop spouting crap like that. 1-2 years ago this game had 300k people. what is that now, 50k per server? Pop has been going down continuously. Each time followed with server upon server running dry, complaining about pops for a while and getting merged eventually.
Speak for the game all you want but obvious lies like this don't help the game, they just make you look like a fanboy ignoring the obvious.

---

 

First off, this is based on actual population scans from within the game. Population numbers on all server(I check them all) have remained the same at peak, and in off hours it has been roughly the same as normal for off hours.

This game is just a bit over 2 years old, of course it had more 2 years ago. That does not mean the current population is not sustainable or stable, because guess what? It is, and it is.

{mod edit}

---

Originally posted by Tardcore

---

Originally posted by syrusmag3

Well i just downloaded the free trail but i have no had time to play it and i wanted ot know if this game is wroth subing to and is the population good cause i want a game for PvP but i also want a game with a decent population

---

As long as you stay on the endless free trial and only play levels 1-11 you should be fine. After that there is really not much point. I don't advise paying any money for this game.

And to the few of you in here saying this game isn't dead, even you have to admit the game is a badly ailling shell of its former self, and that the old skiiny guy in the black robes is looking on while sharpening his scythe.

---

 

This game is not dead, and is not dying, yes it has seen better day number wise, but quality wise, the game has never been better, and just keeps improving, those that have not played since launch give it a go, those who have been gone extended periods give it a go, if its been 60 or 90 days forget which you can goto the account center and reactivate for a 10 or 14 day trial on your old account. New players please for the love of god take it from someone who plays the game, this game is good, don't be scared to try it, ignore all the haters and get in and have fun. If numbers prove anything is that they don't prove a game is good or not, look at WoW for instance, I have played off and on for years, but its boring, and totally imbalanced.

Play it if you like it, or shut the hell up and move on so those that are interested in the game can speak about it in peace.

 The game had 65 US server and currenly has 2 us servers.  Therefore 63 of the us servers have died. 

I played all the way up to T4 on Gorfang and the ORVR pvp never stopped and only slowed a bit when it got really late (like 3am-6am). T1, where all the f2p players are, is extremely packed 24/7.

There's always plenty of people to have large keep battles.

I don't know why people badmouth this game so much, it's only problems are it's lack of PvE and lack of balance in T4.

The good thing is that you can level up all the way to cap with nothing but large-scale PvP.

The bad thing is that Mythic hasn't quite balanced T4 enough, players with full gear are completely invincible and new T4 players can't kill anything at all. This can be fixed by nerfing T4 gear across the board to even things out, but Mythic is trying to be too much like WoW and is stubbornly holding onto it's heavy gear dependence. They don't quite get the point that heavy PvP games need heavier limiters on individual power to keep things nice and fair.

Not only that, a small elite of older T4 players have a complete embargo on battle strategy. You cannot get a single suggestion in edgewise even if it's a good idea and we're losing horribly.

Also, T4 city sieges are extremely disappointing and misleading. You don't actually siege their city and kill all of their NPCs, you just do some stupid PvEvP double sided dungeon and that's it. I worked all that time to get to T4 so I could run through their capital city slaughtering their bankers and auctioneers and it turns out to be not what I expected at all. This is why I quit, out of pure disappointment. I felt betrayed and misled.

I just signed back to a 14 day re-enlistment. I waited for an hour to do a scenario, and got nothing. I tried to quest, but it was a joke and reminded me of why I couldn't pve in this game(boring and little xp). I haven't tried the RvR lakes, but I guess that is the only place to PvP now. I seriously doubt this place is packed.

---

Originally posted by Golelorn
I just signed back to a 14 day re-enlistment. I waited for an hour to do a scenario, and got nothing. I tried to quest, but it was a joke and reminded me of why I couldn't pve in this game(boring and little xp). I haven't tried the RvR lakes, but I guess that is the only place to PvP now. I seriously doubt this place is packed.

---

Also, you have to follow where the WAAAGH goes. Everybody might be in any of the RVR lakes but they're usually just in 1 of them all together. The rest of the zones stay empty until everybody decides to go there. Just stay with the group and you'll have a blast. It's not like you can take a keep by yourself anyways.

Dont' get me wrong.  I really liked Warhammer.  I don't understand why everyone hated it honestly.  It had tons of great, innovative ideas that nobody seems to recall or care about, like PQs (which for some reason people think Rift created), chapter storylines, interesting "rep" systems, and the RvR was really fun in the hayday.   Granted there were some flaws, boring instances, upper-tier imbalance... but I still had a blast.

But, according to mmodata, a site that basically picks up where MMOCharts left off a few years back, their pop has gone from 7-800k at release to under 100k now.  Granted, in the last two years, it's only dropped from about 150k to just under 100k, so it's somewhat "stablized" I guess.

http://www.mmodata.net/

Unlike many people, when a game is pulling 100k in subs, I don't consider that a total failure.  Generating 1.5 million a month + box sales + initial subs, thats quite a nice profit over a few years, and if you look at the charts, over 300,000 people enjoyed the game for a solid year before the dropoff.  Granted, you can't call a sharp decline in numbers a real "success," but 100k is a lot of people.  I don't *always* consider MMOs to fail even when they go F2P, like LoTRO definitely isn't  a failure boasting over 200k in subs... epecially when you consider that EQ2 only did around 325k in it's hayday.  The only way I consider them to be complete failures is when they shut off the servers (a la RF online), or never get going to begin with (a la Matrix Online). Many consider DoAC to be one of the greats, and it never broke 250k. 

Take the site for what it's worth, it seems pretty accurate based on new coverage, blogs, and general attitude, but by no means is it an end-all be all.  It's also on point with several other "census" type sites.I still use it for reference to determine which games "died" since every crybaby on the forums seems to know the exact pulse of the mmo industry and regularly blow smoke out of their asses.

Originally posted by Golelorn

I just signed back to a 14 day re-enlistment. I waited for an hour to do a scenario, and got nothing. I tried to quest, but it was a joke and reminded me of why I couldn't pve in this game(boring and little xp). I haven't tried the RvR lakes, but I guess that is the only place to PvP now. I seriously doubt this place is packed.

What tier and server because I'm skeptical.

Originally posted by Xero_Chance

I played all the way up to T4 on Gorfang and the ORVR pvp never stopped and only slowed a bit when it got really late (like 3am-6am). T1, where all the f2p players are, is extremely packed 24/7.

There's always plenty of people to have large keep battles.

I don't know why people badmouth this game so much, it's only problems are it's lack of PvE and lack of balance in T4.

The good thing is that you can level up all the way to cap with nothing but large-scale PvP.

The bad thing is that Mythic hasn't quite balanced T4 enough, players with full gear are completely invincible and new T4 players can't kill anything at all. This can be fixed by nerfing T4 gear across the board to even things out, but Mythic is trying to be too much like WoW and is stubbornly holding onto it's heavy gear dependence. They don't quite get the point that heavy PvP games need heavier limiters on individual power to keep things nice and fair.

Not only that, a small elite of older T4 players have a complete embargo on battle strategy. You cannot get a single suggestion in edgewise even if it's a good idea and we're losing horribly.

Also, T4 city sieges are extremely disappointing and misleading. You don't actually siege their city and kill all of their NPCs, you just do some stupid PvEvP double sided dungeon and that's it. I worked all that time to get to T4 so I could run through their capital city slaughtering their bankers and auctioneers and it turns out to be not what I expected at all. This is why I quit, out of pure disappointment. I felt betrayed and misled.

 Not sure when the last time you played was, but patch 1.4.2 which released last week removed the massive gear gap in T4. In fact quite a few of the RR 90-100 players are all up in arms and crying nonstop because they cant just roflstomp entire parties of people by themselves anymore an dthey have to actually fight on pretty equal footing and are losing.... yet they still claim theyre the most skilled players in the game and everyone below RR 90 is worse than them. Figure that one out.

I lost my OP gear. Now im not getting easy free wins even though i have slightly better stats on gear, more stat buffs from RR points, renown tactics, etc.... but im more skilled at the game than any of you worthless RR70-80s.

Thats the general tone coming from a large numebr of high RR players. Its pretty damn entertaining actually. Before the patch it wasmostly  "Gear has nothing to do with it. Its not OP. We are just better than all of you and we have better premade groups. You just suck at the game. L2P and stop QQing because you suck"

Originally posted by Golelorn

I just signed back to a 14 day re-enlistment. I waited for an hour to do a scenario, and got nothing. I tried to quest, but it was a joke and reminded me of why I couldn't pve in this game(boring and little xp). I haven't tried the RvR lakes, but I guess that is the only place to PvP now. I seriously doubt this place is packed.

 Youre only really going to find steady SC pops in T1 and T4. Most people stay clear of SCs in T2 and T3 because theyre grinding out RR in the RvR lakes. RvR gives a better RR vs XP ratio than Scenarios usually, and right now RR is what matters. Gorfang has RvR going 24/7 in every tier. I just played on Badlands a little bit recently, and it looks like it sabout the same there too, might even get a nice increase in activity with the recent slew of transfers to the server as well as the ability to X-realm now like on Gorfang. There also the possibility your queue bugged. If your ein T1 or T4 and not getting SC pops for an hour, you should probably requeue.

Basically here show things play out on Gorfang (and likely Badlands too):

Create a toon, Queue for an SC right away and should get one quickly.

Do a couple SCs and some of the starter quests for some quick gear and cash as you make your way towards the 1st RvR lake.

RvR and SC nonstop until you can go to T2.

Spend 90% of T2 flipping zones and fighting in RvR lakes, avoiding anyQuests &  XP as much as possible. Youll hit some downtime in the RvR lakes in the middle of the night.

T3 - same as T2 until you get to RR70+. Still a little downtime late at night, but usually only like an hour or 2. Usually its a matte rof you & enemy in different zones. You can pretty much always find some AAO though if you go looking for it.

Go to T4 and RvR, sieges and SCs pretty much nonstop all day every day with several Warbands full of people doing RvR on each side.

---

Originally posted by kaiser3282

---

Originally posted by Xero_Chance
I played all the way up to T4 on Gorfang and the ORVR pvp never stopped and only slowed a bit when it got really late (like 3am-6am). T1, where all the f2p players are, is extremely packed 24/7.
There's always plenty of people to have large keep battles.
I don't know why people badmouth this game so much, it's only problems are it's lack of PvE and lack of balance in T4.
The good thing is that you can level up all the way to cap with nothing but large-scale PvP.
The bad thing is that Mythic hasn't quite balanced T4 enough, players with full gear are completely invincible and new T4 players can't kill anything at all. This can be fixed by nerfing T4 gear across the board to even things out, but Mythic is trying to be too much like WoW and is stubbornly holding onto it's heavy gear dependence. They don't quite get the point that heavy PvP games need heavier limiters on individual power to keep things nice and fair.
Not only that, a small elite of older T4 players have a complete embargo on battle strategy. You cannot get a single suggestion in edgewise even if it's a good idea and we're losing horribly.
Also, T4 city sieges are extremely disappointing and misleading. You don't actually siege their city and kill all of their NPCs, you just do some stupid PvEvP double sided dungeon and that's it. I worked all that time to get to T4 so I could run through their capital city slaughtering their bankers and auctioneers and it turns out to be not what I expected at all. This is why I quit, out of pure disappointment. I felt betrayed and misled.

---

 Not sure when the last time you played was, but patch 1.4.2 which released last week removed the massive gear gap in T4. In fact quite a few of the RR 90-100 players are all up in arms and crying nonstop because they cant just roflstomp entire parties of people by themselves anymore an dthey have to actually fight on pretty equal footing and are losing.... yet they still claim theyre the most skilled players in the game and everyone below RR 90 is worse than them. Figure that one out.
I lost my OP gear. Now im not getting easy free wins even though i have slightly better stats on gear, more stat buffs from RR points, renown tactics, etc.... but im more skilled at the game than any of you worthless RR70-80s.
Thats the general tone coming from a large number of high RR players. Its pretty damn entertaining actually. Before the patch it was mostly  "Gear has nothing to do with it. Its not OP. We are just better than all of you and we have better premade groups. You just suck at the game. L2P and stop QQing because you suck"

---

City sieges are still misleading and disappointing as all hell. I want to kill their merchants and leave their capital a barren waste.

Good tips, Kaiser. Thanks. I have a 23 DoK from when I played at release. Gonna try to play that one if I can refamiliarize myself with the class again.