Hey guys, I've just been on Warpstone, the Public Test Server for WAR and was trying out the new Skaven playable race for RVR.  Now before you start assuming this is another one of those "OMG I hate this, what was Mythic thinking?!?! argh!!" rage posts you're wrong, I actually enjoyed playing them, especially their Gutter Runner, which is pretty much a scout rogue type class based around Witch Elf/Witch Hunter but much much better when it comes to terms of stealth mobility, though I wouldn't say it has the most awesome attacks in comparisent though it does get the job done if played right.  I also wanted to share my view as of why Mythic chose to place Skaven available to both factions, the obvious one is that Skaven hate everyone which would include destro, not just order, they're in a league of their own, they'll kill anyone therefor it makes perfect sense why they would intervine with fights between order and destro and cause some chaos of their own.  Sure it would be nice to play this race as a full on leveling type but be honest, if there was a 3rd faction and you had to decide which other faction you wanted to kill most, which would you pick?  I myself would always go after Order, all Mythic did was cut out the time you would have wasted spending time leveling that character.  Ok, so you want something new to do, well for one thing the boss battles in order to unlock this new race can be quite intense considering they're mega hard and you have the other faction in the same instance attacking the same boss as well as trying to kill you, in order to get access to Skaven as well.  I admit that Mythic could have done more, a whole lot more, but at the end of the day they're just doing what any development team would do with so many other things going on. You guys seem to forget, Mythic doesn't just concerntrate on things like WAR, they've done whatever they can to cater for the demands, perhaps not in the way that we wanted but at least they've tried, cut them some slack! I really get sick of whiners and haters who clearly have nothing better to do with their lives than slander someone's hard work, if you think you can do better, go do it!  Hopefully then you'll realise it ain't that simple nore easy, programming and animating and texturing day after day, week after week, month after month, perhaps even years before the product can even be considered play worthy.  My main point is, Mythic have provided us with something we can enjoy, I think they deserve a bit of credit rather than people going around raging about it claiming its not right cus of the Warhammer Lore etc when to me it makes perfect sense and at the end of the day its just a game and Mythic are trying to do something for us, at least they didn't just simply ignore us.  Anyways, I'm going to go have more fun playing my new rat and annoy some Order, I hope in time some of the rest of you will find some appreciation in this as much as I have.

Oh yeah and one last thing, before ya start ranting on that I'm just soem fanboy working for Mythic or some shit, I'm not, I'm just putting a point across and would say this for any company.

I'd hope a mythic 'undercover' would actually come up with something more convincing than this wall of text. So yeah, I highly doubt you are one xD. Mostly you just seem happy they are actually introducing *something*. That's fine. it's good to get additions, and plenty of people will be happy with finally being able to do something new or different, especially considering the Skaven are introduced to get rid of the RvDoor.

I think most people realize a 3rd faction is never going to happen. It's simply too late, and would require a complete redesign of the whole game to incorporate them. That said, even though *you* think their short skit satisfies the lore, many people think they could have at least bothered to drum up a second skin that would fit Order far better, rather than making a short situation excuse which would probably never have happened that way in the Warhammer Universe but would rather have ended in slashing them up for even suggesting it.

Obviously people are going to enjoy the new patch. It's like tossing a bone at some starving dogs. It doesn't really matter how much meat is on it since WAR players have been dying for something new to do for so long.

Mythic not putting 3rd faction to prevent us from wasting time?

You're very naive boy

Good to hear Skaven have been done well. They should have been selected from the beginning. In fact each race should have been a faction imo ;) that would have been very "warhammery". Still there is some fun in this game and good to see Mythic still service their MMO. MMOs should be a service and not just a product so thumbs up for sticking to the game and that gutter runner sounds like a very cool class also.

Originally posted by dinams

Mythic not putting 3rd faction to prevent us from wasting time?

 

You're very naive boy

When you think about it logicly, yeah, the time was cut down.  Since you already have a character around that level, you obtain a rat of RVR cap level by default, savnig you spending days on end getting from level 1 to whatever level it is you are currently at.  As for claiming Mythic did this on purpose? maybe they did, maybe they didn't, its my view point, I didn't state Mythic's soul purpose was to avoid time wasting for us, but hey, the fact that it does is a bonus, imo it was a smart move, no one wants to waste time and spend more money on subscribing til they have achieved satisfaction rather than subscribe for that one month and get total satisfaction from it.  I'm pretty sure this will bag a few old WAR players which is clearly what Mythic was aiming to achieve, and right before any other game release or update could interfier too, at least they know where their christmas money is comnig from this year :P  Speaking of money, before you cry babies whine about money going out of your pockets, how much budget do you think it costs to make a game? how much do you think it costs to continue to add to a game as well as add to others in existance by the same company and to produce more games in the future to keep within the ball game? think about that.  Besides, you're not forced to play and pay for this game, there are other games, don't like it? play something else.  If you do like it then quit ya whining and continue to support the game and its creators by paying til ya get bored of it :P

Oh and I agree Pheace, Mythic could have come up with a different idea to set Order different from Destro, maybe give them a different race since as you stated, Skaven wouln't really side with Order, but then again Skaven really wouldn't side with Destro either beleive it or not.  I've been a fan of Warhammer for 10 years and I know for fact that Skaven would prefer to backstab the Destro than side with them, its how they work.

Originally posted by Urvan

Originally posted by dinams

Mythic not putting 3rd faction to prevent us from wasting time?

 

You're very naive boy

When you think about it logicly, yeah, the time was cut down.  Since you already have a character around that level, you obtain a rat of RVR cap level by default, savnig you spending days on end getting from level 1 to whatever level it is you are currently at.  As for claiming Mythic did this on purpose? maybe they did, maybe they didn't, its my view point, I didn't state Mythic's soul purpose was to avoid time wasting for us, but hey, the fact that it does is a bonus, imo it was a smart move, no one wants to waste time and spend more money on subscribing til they have achieved satisfaction rather than subscribe for that one month and get total satisfaction from it.  I'm pretty sure this will bag a few old WAR players which is clearly what Mythic was aiming to achieve, and right before any other game release or update could interfier too, at least they know where their christmas money is comnig from this year :P  Speaking of money, before you cry babies whine about money going out of your pockets, how much budget do you think it costs to make a game? how much do you think it costs to continue to add to a game as well as add to others in existance by the same company and to produce more games in the future to keep within the ball game? think about that.  Besides, you're not forced to play and pay for this game, there are other games, don't like it? play something else.  If you do like it then quit ya whining and continue to support the game and its creators by paying til ya get bored of it :P

Oh and I agree Pheace, Mythic could have come up with a different idea to set Order different from Destro, maybe give them a different race since as you stated, Skaven wouln't really side with Order, but then again Skaven really wouldn't side with Destro either beleive it or not.  I've been a fan of Warhammer for 10 years and I know for fact that Skaven would prefer to backstab the Destro than side with them, its how they work.

I agree that they wouldn't want to work with Destro either but i can certainly see them forcing/compelling Skaven to work for them in some fashion or another. Order on the other hand ... no, just no xD

As for the time argument. If they managed to implement something that would get people to do 1-80(100) all over again, I'm pretty sure Mythic would be all over it. Since more time = more money. I really do not agree Mythic cares a bit about 'not wasting' our time :)

The money part is relative. I don't have to know how much budget it costs t omake a game or to continue adding to it when I can just compare what Mythic has added for the same sub fee compared to other games with similar sub fees. And the simple fact is, that it has been very little in comparison. Now why that is. I have no clue. Maybe they wipe their behinds with dollar bills or something. But clearly other companies manage to turn their sub fees into far more content than Mythic manages to do (these days, because they managed just fine in Daoc).

In 2 years, they've either A) Only added LotD as any significant content addition or B) Added LOTD + Skaven implementation, but make you pay for raising your RR Cap and a couple of extra armor weapons, and contrary to any other MMO around this time have no 'real' expansion on the horizon whatsoever. Either way the game's content additions have been severely lacking compared to other similarly priced MMO's.

Does that mean the game as it is isn't fun? No. Does that mean asking 15$ for the 1.4 patch as a whole would be a bad thing? No. If it had come next to an expansion release or something, clearly as *extra* content on top of a decent content addition versus sub, then most people wouldn't have even mentioned it. But as it is, it's asking money, for something you would have gotten standard for your sub fee in most other games, and even then there's the missing 'real' expansion.

I think asking extra money for *extra* content is perfectly fine. I just don't agree the content they are offering here should be labeled as such, and it just comes off a little sad for a game that really should have added more content to the game already to begin with. (instead they've actually taken away a lot >.<)

Originally posted by Mmocount

Originally posted by Urvan

Originally posted by dinams

Mythic not putting 3rd faction to prevent us from wasting time?

 

You're very naive boy

When you think about it logicly, yeah, the time was cut down.  Since you already have a character around that level, you obtain a rat of RVR cap level by default, savnig you spending days on end getting from level 1 to whatever level it is you are currently at.  As for claiming Mythic did this on purpose? maybe they did, maybe they didn't, its my view point, I didn't state Mythic's soul purpose was to avoid time wasting for us, but hey, the fact that it does is a bonus, imo it was a smart move, no one wants to waste time and spend more money on subscribing til they have achieved satisfaction rather than subscribe for that one month and get total satisfaction from it.  I'm pretty sure this will bag a few old WAR players which is clearly what Mythic was aiming to achieve, and right before any other game release or update could interfier too, at least they know where their christmas money is comnig from this year :P  Speaking of money, before you cry babies whine about money going out of your pockets, how much budget do you think it costs to make a game? how much do you think it costs to continue to add to a game as well as add to others in existance by the same company and to produce more games in the future to keep within the ball game? think about that.  Besides, you're not forced to play and pay for this game, there are other games, don't like it? play something else.  If you do like it then quit ya whining and continue to support the game and its creators by paying til ya get bored of it :P

Oh and I agree Pheace, Mythic could have come up with a different idea to set Order different from Destro, maybe give them a different race since as you stated, Skaven wouln't really side with Order, but then again Skaven really wouldn't side with Destro either beleive it or not.  I've been a fan of Warhammer for 10 years and I know for fact that Skaven would prefer to backstab the Destro than side with them, its how they work.

 

I agree that they wouldn't want to work with Destro either but i can certainly see them forcing/compelling Skaven to work for them in some fashion or another. Order on the other hand ... no, just no xD

 

As for the time argument. If they managed to implement something that would get people to do 1-80(100) all over again, I'm pretty sure Mythic would be all over it. Since more time = more money. I really do not agree Mythic cares a bit about 'not wasting' our time :)

The money part is relative. I don't have to know how much budget it costs t omake a game or to continue adding to it when I can just compare what Mythic has added for the same sub fee compared to other games with similar sub fees. And the simple fact is, that it has been very little in comparison. Now why that is. I have no clue. Maybe they wipe their behinds with dollar bills or something. But clearly other companies manage to turn their sub fees into far more content than Mythic manages to do (these days, because they managed just fine in Daoc).

In 2 years, they've either A) Only added LotD as any significant content addition or B) Added LOTD + Skaven implementation, but make you pay for raising your RR Cap and a couple of extra armor weapons, and contrary to any other MMO around this time have no 'real' expansion on the horizon whatsoever. Either way the game's content additions have been severely lacking compared to other similarly priced MMO's.

Does that mean the game as it is isn't fun? No. Does that mean asking 15$ for the 1.4 patch as a whole would be a bad thing? No. If it had come next to an expansion release or something, clearly as *extra* content on top of a decent content addition versus sub, then most people wouldn't have even mentioned it. But as it is, it's asking money, for something you would have gotten standard for your sub fee in most other games, and even then there's the missing 'real' expansion.

 

I think asking extra money for *extra* content is perfectly fine. I just don't agree the content they are offering here should be labeled as such, and it just comes off a little sad for a game that really should have added more content to the game already to begin with. (instead they've actually taken away a lot >.<)

Good and somewhat valid points there but here's a qusetion, what if Mythc have been having a hard time with budget over the past few years? that would explain their lacking and perhaps why they got lured into joining EA, cus god knows else why they chose to do that eh? lol.  As for the whole Skaven joining sides thing, I see it as they're not joining anyone, they're just intervining, let your imagination do the work, not the game :P  I donno if this is how Mythic planned it but thats how I'm seeing it as.  Screw who's side they're fighting with, they just wanna kill, thats why they take either side :P  Besides, those cowards would join anyone after they see their boss fall to the ground, which is what happens in the game, though I agree I don't really see Order trying to get them to work with them by killing their boss, but like I said, we can always twist things a little, the Skaven want some payback on the Destro, they they imerge on the Order side of the field, simples :-)

Originally posted by Urvan

Good and somewhat valid points there but here's a qusetion, what if Mythc have been having a hard time with budget over the past few years? that would explain their lacking and perhaps why they got lured into joining EA, cus god knows else why they chose to do that eh? lol.  As for the whole Skaven joining sides thing, I see it as they're not joining anyone, they're just intervining, let your imagination do the work, not the game :P  I donno if this is how Mythic planned it but thats how I'm seeing it as.  Screw who's side they're fighting with, they just wanna kill, thats why they take either side :P  Besides, those cowards would join anyone after they see their boss fall to the ground, which is what happens in the game, though I agree I don't really see Order trying to get them to work with them by killing their boss, but like I said, we can always twist things a little, the Skaven want some payback on the Destro, they they imerge on the Order side of the field, simples :-)

I know they had trouble getting around the budget. That's why they sold out to EA because otherwise they wouldn't have finished the game at all. However, since release the game sold ~800k units in the first month and has seen 2 years of anywhere between 300k~- 100k~ of monthly subs. Now I know they had a massive bill to repay their investors, but is LoTD really the best they could do with all that money in 2 years? Did they send every cent back with hardly a dime back into the game for new content?

On the skaven thing, I think it's going to be really hard to imagine it as 'intervening' if you pay them with Warpstone that you got first and then your main character changes *into* a skaven for the duration of the siege (they're basically siege engines), to fight along side and actually have to be protected by Order so they can live long enough to serve their siege purpose. It's not like they're swooping in from the side for a sneak attack or something. They're an integral part of the siege all of a sudden.

Look. I completely can see 'some other faction' mingling in for some purpose or another. I personally don't care much for lore at all and think games should be built around working interesting mechanics, regardless of lore. But if looking at it from a lore perspective I can certainly understand why most people think what's happening here is almost inexcusable. To think that 'excuse' they came up with would actually happen that way, and that's it, was for a lot of people like pouring salt on an open wound. It's just ridiculous.

Edit: Home account vs Study center account btw, same person xD