Originally posted by NegativeJoe

 

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Originally posted by TheHavok
and generally not meeting the standards of an mmorpg released in 2008-2009. Was it Mythic's fault? 
 

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as a huge DAoC fan i couldn't really get into WAR. but also as a general mmorpg fan that has tried every other game released since WoW...what game DID meet the standards of an mmorpg ?
WAR isn't a bad game at all. I can't think of another game released in the past few years thats better. PotBS? Vanguard? AOC? Tabula Rasa? Spellborn? Darkfall? big no to all. Aion, Fallen Earth you think? played them both and bigger no to both.

it gets a bad rap for alot of things, some being valid, others just being that at this point in time, alot of mmorpg fans are jus disheartedned and bored at the entire genre. (which is why this whole aion fad has me so puzzled...the only draw it has is..its a new game to grind)

Couldn't agree more.

Originally posted by Wizardry

I think the op is a little on and a little off on some analogies.

For one thing Blizzard copied the entire WOW game from EQ,there was nothing to do with patience or anytrhing for that matter,they followed SOE so closely,they even rushed WOW out the doors when SOE released EQ2 a little sooner than stated.

As far as EA pleasing their stock holders,or whoever is in charge of the finaces,i would say that is a no brainer from EVERY developer.I would bet 99% of the games we see today have all been rushed out the door or content removed or unfinished because the stock holders want a release to start making money on their investments.

I was turned off from WAR as soon as i heard them talk about streamlining crafting,that told me right away they were getting rushed and did not want to spend any time on it.

As for Starcraft 2 ,blizzard is not taking their time ,it has nothing to do with polish or trying to make a better game.This is a fact because Blizzard actually CANCELLED SC2 twice already,because they are still afraid to be a leader and realize there old game engine rehashing is becoming tiresome amongst players.If Blizzard was so confident that all it took was spending the time and effort,they would have never cancelled it in the first place,they are a second rate developer IMO,they REALLY need to copy ideas or steal staff from REAL developers to actually succeed.

The other reason it took SC2 so long to formalize,is becuase they had no money to take risks.They finally got a ton of cash from WOW subs,it makes the risk feasable,however any half witted marketing firm knows that right now there is a VERY small market to draw players from.Spending more time on your project ,especially one as weak as the starcraft 2 game engine,you are not going to reap large rewards for your investment.A game like SC2 would actually serve the developer better to just whip it out,it is not a hi tech game that needs polish nor does it involve any game breaking ideas,it is just a so so game,very average old tech game.

Weak engine? I've seen the battle reports and SC2 is anything but weak. As for limited appeal, SC is just about the Korean national religion ^^ They are going totally nuts over SC2.   You should have seen the reaction to the news that SC2 will be be released in three parts. They had a LOT of VERY happy Koreans.

Originally posted by Wraithone

Weak engine? I've seen the battle reports and SC2 is anything but weak. As for limited appeal, SC is just about the Korean national religion ^^ They are going totally nuts over SC2.   You should have seen the reaction to the news that SC2 will be be released in three parts. They had a LOT of VERY happy Koreans.

Very few of Blizzards gfx engines were state of the art. All the Warcraft versions, including WoW, had an old and outdated gfx engine so it would not surprise me if SC 2 too has an old gfx engine.

Gfx has never been Blizzards strength. Designing stable, casual games for the masses has been (and still is).

Originally posted by spyder2k5

Originally posted by Pheace

Originally posted by spyder2k5

Originally posted by Daffid011

You keep saying the game is not boring and has the same features as others, but the one consistant message I have gotten from people who have left is that the game just wasn't fun.  It isn't the "same quests as other games" or PQs layered in awesome sauce as you put it.

Most of the game is shallow and lack luster.  Even the main selling point of the game is plagued with problems and only randomly is fun. 

 

I could not argue with anyone who said that game is boring, because I think they are right.  Fun can be had, but it isn't like other games where fun is everywhere. 

 

There are those that do not like it but they are few. The game is as fun as you make it and mix things up.

 

What? You mean few "among those that are left" I assume? Well over half the people that tried it decided not to play anymore. Clearly there's "many" who do not like it.

 

That doesn't mean the game is not fun fo rthose who stay but to say there are "few" who do not like it is simply not true.

 

For each person that leaves, 10 more try it and at least half stay. Move on troll.

So for every person that quits, 5 people subscribe? 

Right, the game is doing so well that EA just decided to fire Mark Jacobs? 

I can point to the game officially losing at least 500,000 subscribers.  According to you they must have gained 2.5 million right?

The game was not fun as a result of people not playing it right as you try to imply.  The game design just didn't mesh well and resulted in gameplay that is subpar to many other games, so people left. 

Originally posted by NegativeJoe

 

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Originally posted by TheHavok
and generally not meeting the standards of an mmorpg released in 2008-2009. Was it Mythic's fault? 
 

---

 

as a huge DAoC fan i couldn't really get into WAR. but also as a general mmorpg fan that has tried every other game released since WoW...what game DID meet the standards of an mmorpg ?
WAR isn't a bad game at all. I can't think of another game released in the past few years thats better. PotBS? Vanguard? AOC? Tabula Rasa? Spellborn? Darkfall? big no to all. Aion, Fallen Earth you think? played them both and bigger no to both.

it gets a bad rap for alot of things, some being valid, others just being that at this point in time, alot of mmorpg fans are jus disheartedned and bored at the entire genre. (which is why this whole aion fad has me so puzzled...the only draw it has is..its a new game to grind)

I disagree about Fallen Earth. The graphics arent all that great, but the game is groundbreaking in its creativitiy and as immersive as EQ1 was. BUT, you have to enjoy a post apocalyptic type setting to enjoy the game. There arent any elves or majestic castles; instead there are trailer partks and junkyards where you scavenge for scrap metal to make guns. 

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by spyder2k5

For each person that leaves, 10 more try it and at least half stay. Move on troll.

So for every person that quits, 5 people subscribe? 

 

Right, the game is doing so well that EA just decided to fire Mark Jacobs? 

I can point to the game officially losing at least 500,000 subscribers.  According to you they must have gained 2.5 million right? 

LOL its a good thing that share holders can sue random people for making "false positives"....

I know they said at one point they had 750,000 subs and the last official numbers I saw were 300,000.  Mark Jacobs had claimed numbers were increasing... and when he departed officially the numbers were "down" but I had not seen any reference to a total.

So yes they lost at leat 450,000 and supposedly X amount more (no idea how many).

So yes by the statement made they would have 2,550,000'ish subs at a minimum right now...

Originally posted by Antarious

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by spyder2k5

For each person that leaves, 10 more try it and at least half stay. Move on troll.

So for every person that quits, 5 people subscribe? 

 

Right, the game is doing so well that EA just decided to fire Mark Jacobs? 

I can point to the game officially losing at least 500,000 subscribers.  According to you they must have gained 2.5 million right? 

 

 

LOL its a good thing that share holders can sue random people for making "false positives"....

 

I know they said at one point they had 750,000 subs and the last official numbers I saw were 300,000.  Mark Jacobs had claimed numbers were increasing... and when he departed officially the numbers were "down" but I had not seen any reference to a total.

 

So yes they lost at leat 450,000 and supposedly X amount more (no idea how many).

 

So yes by the statement made they would have 2,550,000'ish subs at a minimum right now...

Are you all ignorant? Or just plain stupid? I am talking now, not then. Common sense would tell you, that unlike you sheep, I speak in present tense, and speak of the here and now, not of past issues, or statements.

Originally posted by spyder2k5

Originally posted by Antarious

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by spyder2k5

For each person that leaves, 10 more try it and at least half stay. Move on troll.

So for every person that quits, 5 people subscribe? 

 

Right, the game is doing so well that EA just decided to fire Mark Jacobs? 

I can point to the game officially losing at least 500,000 subscribers.  According to you they must have gained 2.5 million right? 

 

 

LOL its a good thing that share holders can sue random people for making "false positives"....

 

I know they said at one point they had 750,000 subs and the last official numbers I saw were 300,000.  Mark Jacobs had claimed numbers were increasing... and when he departed officially the numbers were "down" but I had not seen any reference to a total.

 

So yes they lost at leat 450,000 and supposedly X amount more (no idea how many).

 

So yes by the statement made they would have 2,550,000'ish subs at a minimum right now...

 

Are you all ignorant? Or just plain stupid? I am talking now, not then. Common sense would tell you, that unlike you sheep, I speak in present tense, and speak of the here and now, not of past issues, or statements.

You speak of fantasy,while others speak of reality.

Originally posted by spyder2k5

Originally posted by Antarious

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by spyder2k5

For each person that leaves, 10 more try it and at least half stay. Move on troll.

So for every person that quits, 5 people subscribe? 

 

Right, the game is doing so well that EA just decided to fire Mark Jacobs? 

I can point to the game officially losing at least 500,000 subscribers.  According to you they must have gained 2.5 million right? 

 

 

LOL its a good thing that share holders can sue random people for making "false positives"....

 

I know they said at one point they had 750,000 subs and the last official numbers I saw were 300,000.  Mark Jacobs had claimed numbers were increasing... and when he departed officially the numbers were "down" but I had not seen any reference to a total.

 

So yes they lost at leat 450,000 and supposedly X amount more (no idea how many).

 

So yes by the statement made they would have 2,550,000'ish subs at a minimum right now...

 

Are you all ignorant? Or just plain stupid? I am talking now, not then. Common sense would tell you, that unlike you sheep, I speak in present tense, and speak of the here and now, not of past issues, or statements.

That's funny. When I called you on talking about the now (the people who are left) you called me a troll and to go away. Not much common sense in that one but then you probably realize that but chose to ignore it.

Go right ahead and keep insulting people though, it suits you.

Alrite, just to write a quick follow-up: 

I actually did enjoy Warhammer.  It is a good game despite all its flaws.  But, the flaws are there.  That is what I meant by not meeting the standards of an mmorpg released in 2008-2009. I remember, the first month, seeing guildie after guildie jumping ship.  I remember having lengthy conversation about "i wish this was different" or "why did they do it this way?".

I mean seriously, they barely got in the mailbox system right before release.  Mailbox.  And they were still bugged/slow after months of release.  Also, there was gear in the game only usable by classes that had been taken out of the game.  Pet and npc pathing was off.  Large sieges crashed the server.  Ect.  There are other flaws like the high amount of aoe and reactive damage.

Also, Spyder2k5, you are totally talking out of your ass so I would suggest you listen to everybody that you are arguing with and just accept that you are wrong and/or talking out of your ass.

And Wizardry, please refrain from posting in any of my threads ever again.  The constant stream of bullshit that spews out of your mouth is laughable but also really iritiating because people might actually believe you.

Originally posted by spyder2k5 

 

Are you all ignorant? Or just plain stupid? I am talking now, not then. Common sense would tell you, that unlike you sheep, I speak in present tense, and speak of the here and now, not of past issues, or statements.

Listen friend, there are only 4 servers with decent population left.  Count them, 1,2,3,4.  If 5 people joined for every lost player then the servers would be swelling.   Would you care to show where you get this idea that 10 times more people are trying the game than leaving and 50% of those trying it are signing up?    What makes you believe the game is rebounding?

Warhammer could have been great and has some really good ideas on paper, but it just didn't turn out that way.  What it currently delivers is a very blan game experience.  Occasional bursts of fun surrounded by a whole bunch of meh with bad performance on top of that. 

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Originally posted by Daffid011

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Originally posted by spyder2k5 
 
Are you all ignorant? Or just plain stupid? I am talking now, not then. Common sense would tell you, that unlike you sheep, I speak in present tense, and speak of the here and now, not of past issues, or statements.

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Listen friend, there are only 4 servers with decent population left.  Count them, 1,2,3,4.  If 5 people joined for every lost player then the servers would be swelling.   Would you care to show where you get this idea that 10 times more people are trying the game than leaving and 50% of those trying it are signing up?    What makes you believe the game is rebounding?
Warhammer could have been great and has some really good ideas on paper, but it just didn't turn out that way.  What it currently delivers is a very blan game experience.  Occasional bursts of fun surrounded by a whole bunch of meh with bad performance on top of that. 
 
 

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Originally posted by spyder2k5

 

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Originally posted by Daffid011

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Originally posted by spyder2k5 
 
Are you all ignorant? Or just plain stupid? I am talking now, not then. Common sense would tell you, that unlike you sheep, I speak in present tense, and speak of the here and now, not of past issues, or statements.

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Listen friend, there are only 4 servers with decent population left.  Count them, 1,2,3,4.  If 5 people joined for every lost player then the servers would be swelling.   Would you care to show where you get this idea that 10 times more people are trying the game than leaving and 50% of those trying it are signing up?    What makes you believe the game is rebounding?
Warhammer could have been great and has some really good ideas on paper, but it just didn't turn out that way.  What it currently delivers is a very blan game experience.  Occasional bursts of fun surrounded by a whole bunch of meh with bad performance on top of that. 
 
 

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I check, and watch population. The game is bland? Yet it is the only game that you can start PVP from the word go, and get xp for it along with it. You get xp for everything you do. The games quests have a great story to them, if you don't like it say so and leave. But seeing you have not played it for a while, sit there and shut up. You have no clue the condition of the game, and no voice because if you are not paying then you are not supporting the developers with anything but negativity.

 

Clearly you have this forum confused with the Official forums. If you only care for paying subscribers opinions then what are you doing here?

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Originally posted by Pheace

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Originally posted by spyder2k5

 

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Originally posted by Daffid011

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Originally posted by spyder2k5 
 
Are you all ignorant? Or just plain stupid? I am talking now, not then. Common sense would tell you, that unlike you sheep, I speak in present tense, and speak of the here and now, not of past issues, or statements.

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Listen friend, there are only 4 servers with decent population left.  Count them, 1,2,3,4.  If 5 people joined for every lost player then the servers would be swelling.   Would you care to show where you get this idea that 10 times more people are trying the game than leaving and 50% of those trying it are signing up?    What makes you believe the game is rebounding?
Warhammer could have been great and has some really good ideas on paper, but it just didn't turn out that way.  What it currently delivers is a very blan game experience.  Occasional bursts of fun surrounded by a whole bunch of meh with bad performance on top of that. 
 
 

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I check, and watch population. The game is bland? Yet it is the only game that you can start PVP from the word go, and get xp for it along with it. You get xp for everything you do. The games quests have a great story to them, if you don't like it say so and leave. But seeing you have not played it for a while, sit there and shut up. You have no clue the condition of the game, and no voice because if you are not paying then you are not supporting the developers with anything but negativity.
 

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Clearly you have this forum confused with the Official forums. If you only care for paying subscribers opinions then what are you doing here?

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Haha, it's funny you still call me the liar when everyone here points out to you you're the one wrong/lying.

What I say is based on facts released by EA/Mythic. What you say is "your personal observation" on "the right server", according to your own words.

Warheap has updated by the way, it also doesn't seem to support your statements.

You're the one making outrageous and misleading statements based on no facts whatsoever with your for every 1 leaving there's 5 out of 10 trials staying in the game.

I already mentioned this before, but I'll repeat it here so you are forced to read it again. I already said I perfectly believe the people who are still playing are surely having fun in some way or another. But "Gee, really?", was that your big statement? Ow wait, no, it was that most of the people had fun. Well yes, since people who don't have fun quit, that means that if you restrict yourself to the people that still play, most will have fun.... "whoa!" Eureka! That certainly needed to be said!

My statement however, regardless of yours was, that if you look at the bigger picture, and look at *all* the people who tried the game it's not "most" people that had fun. And this is based on simple facts. 800k -> 300k

Most - Some

More - Less

>50% - <50%

500k - 300k

Originally posted by TheHavok

<snip>

I hope st:tor doesn't end up like this.

 

me too brotha, me too.  I hope they take all the time in the world to make it a great game.

I was one of those who left...the game is pretty boring, to be honest.  The only real things to do is either run around in a zerg in orvr, sit outside a keep and hope the other side doesn't manage to get a few aoe spellers inside, or do scenarios.  Almost no one used the PQ system (which was off and on fun), and only dest would ever do the competing PQs (because dest always ended up outnumbering us.)

I'd have much more prefered a PVE experience first, then the PVP system like DAoC had.  And something like Darkness falls really should have been in from the beginning.

Finally, the biggest problem with WAR is the two faction system.  Before, with DAoC, you had three factions, so population was more evenly split.  Even if one side was a little larger, there was two factions that could stand up to them.  With WAR, you had two sides, and the pop numbers went heavily in Destructions favor, and it didn't help that they got most of actual pvpers, and way too many pve players went order.  That pretty much killed the interest from me.

WAR is RVR - and RVR part of WAR failed.  Thats it - end of story.

Now... if WAR wanted to do something else than RVR - then maybe the game would not be bleeding so much atm.  But...  a game that doesn't even have enough content to get ppl to lvl 40 will not hold any PVE player intrested. 

Basicly - the game is getting what it deserves.  Its freefalling on Xfire just few weeks after a big free content patch.  Tells you everything needed to know.

Originally posted by spyder2k5

 

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Originally posted by Daffid011

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Originally posted by spyder2k5 
 
Are you all ignorant? Or just plain stupid? I am talking now, not then. Common sense would tell you, that unlike you sheep, I speak in present tense, and speak of the here and now, not of past issues, or statements.

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Listen friend, there are only 4 servers with decent population left.  Count them, 1,2,3,4.  If 5 people joined for every lost player then the servers would be swelling.   Would you care to show where you get this idea that 10 times more people are trying the game than leaving and 50% of those trying it are signing up?    What makes you believe the game is rebounding?
Warhammer could have been great and has some really good ideas on paper, but it just didn't turn out that way.  What it currently delivers is a very blan game experience.  Occasional bursts of fun surrounded by a whole bunch of meh with bad performance on top of that. 
 
 

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I check, and watch population. The game is bland? Yet it is the only game that you can start PVP from the word go, and get xp for it along with it. You get xp for everything you do. The games quests have a great story to them, if you don't like it say so and leave. But seeing you have not played it for a while, sit there and shut up. You have no clue the condition of the game, and no voice because if you are not paying then you are not supporting the developers with anything but negativity.

 

You have some sort of tool that details to you the net gain in new subscribers vs people quitting?  Do you have anything other than your blind faith to dispute the facts that warhammer is down to 4 med/med servers now?  

As for the typical ad hominem attack against me, I do play warhammer. I just don't play it much.  Anything else you care to be wrong about?

I could care less that you earn xp for pvp from day 1, that doesn't make the gameplay enjoyable.  I could slather tabula rasa with xp for everything up to and including logging into the game, but that wouldn't improve the gameplay would it?  You say the storylines are great, but even the hardened fans of the game admit it isn't very good and often respond "its a pvp game, the pve doesn't matter". 

Remove the RvR from warhammer and you don't even have a game worth a subscription. Outside of RvR, anyone can find a better game on every level than what warhammer has to offer.  Even the RvR is struggling to find an identity and is criticized on many aspects. 

So other than your precision eye, where do you get a 5 to 1 ratio of people joining to people quitting? 

Originally posted by Frobner

WAR is RVR - and RVR part of WAR failed.  Thats it - end of story.

Now... if WAR wanted to do something else than RVR - then maybe the game would not be bleeding so much atm.  But...  a game that doesn't even have enough content to get ppl to lvl 40 will not hold any PVE player intrested. 

Basicly - the game is getting what it deserves.  Its freefalling on Xfire just few weeks after a big free content patch.  Tells you everything needed to know.

RvR is alive and well. Thank you.

And why should it hold a PvE player interested? Is that a measure of success? Shouldn't there be a PvP mmo out there? To hell with PvE-ers, go play your own PvE mmos, like you havent more than enough of those.

And I can tell you exactly why the content patch is unpopular. Because it was aimed squarely at PvE crowd while the majority of players are PvP-ers and their concerns weren't addressed. What we got was a basically PvE expansion with some PvP added... and no one cares about PvE in WAR anymore.

WAR is a PvP mmo at its core. It's greatest flaw is that they tried to stick PvE into it. With PvE came the whole crap of tiers, leveling, linear paths and all that crap that is required to have a "story" where you go and "save the world" along with everyone else. Meh.

Now it's turbine's call. If they go the PvE route then WAR will die. If they get wise they'll realize that there is no real up-to-date open world PvP game out there and that WAR can fulfill that role if someone started actually paying attention to what this game really is. I must say I'm pessimistic tho, bioware does story driven scripted games... I'm not sure they can grasp the concept of player-driven gaming.

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Originally posted by markoraos

And why should it hold a PvE player interested?

Now it's turbine's call. If they go the PvE route then WAR will die. I'm not sure they can grasp the concept of player-driven gaming.

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Why should it hold a PvE player's interest? Maybe because MYTHIC designed the endgame with a vast amount of PvE for starters. The final battle is a... PvE boss fight. Why should PvEers go "find their own game"? WAR has PLENTY of it in every phase, from startup to gear grinds to endgame. No one can deny this with any honesty because this is the way MYTHIC implemented this.

LOTD is unpopular not because of the PvE. It's unpopular because they implemented this stupid zone and it always ends up in Order inside the LOTD farming PvE mobs (unopposed), while Destro is locked out. So then Destro goes and captures zones unopposed. Then later, it's switched and Destro is inside farming PvE (alone) and Order is capturing zones unopposed. That's why it fails; there is no third realm to balance this expansion out. The PvE isn't killing this zone, it's the LACK of PLAYERS in those zones to PvP with. Half the people on servers logging on at any given time now are automatically locked out of their cities because the zone flipped due to no resistance while their faction was busy farming LOTD. MYTHIC set this up and implemented this.

WAR's greatest flaw is two factions and a broken PvE endgame. That's what it comes down to. This is not "Turbine's call". This is Bioware's mess to clean up, Turbine has nothing to do with Warhammer Online at all. They made LOTRO, lol. Bioware is running the show here and they aren't going to fix this frag. Mythic sealed their fate by putting this zone in with only two factions to run it. There is nothing Bioware can do to stop this game from falling down to under 100k by Christmas with AION, Fallen Earth and anything else possibly coming out. No one wants to play WAR anymore past T2, only fanbois are still playing it and it will go down to 5 or 6 total U.S. servers.

That's actually good news, because then there might actually be enough people in every zone so that they can fight WHILE in LOTD instead of the wasteland it is now. But then again, with that many people jammed into those places, this game could crash again (which Mythic hasn't fixed) so maybe its not such good news.

Popinjay, what you just described proves my point.

As I said, PvE is shoved in what is in actuality a PvP game at its core, which is ESPECIALLY true in endgame.

And your gripe with LoTD is in its bad PVP design, and not PVE which is fine. 

"The PvE isn't killing this zone, it's the LACK of PLAYERS in those zones to PvP with." means that PvP is badly designed. If the ruleset is such that it does not give players a reason to fight then its quite obvious that it is a badly designed PvP ruleset that puts more emphasis on non-pvp activities.

It looks almost as if no one at Mythic never ever played, much less designed a war boardgame. They still show such basic ignorance of the basics of conflict-based multiplayer game design that it is staggering. It took them MONTHS to realize that in territorial conquest games the main rewards must come from holding objectives rather than taking them else the game will degenerate into musical chairs. Studying Risk for an afternoon will teach you this.

Originally posted by Spalliero

Originally posted by Kshahdoo

Nah, bullcrap. Too many design flaws the game has to believe in sad fairy-tale about good developers and bad stupid publisher... Mythic just don't understand what should be taken to make a big successful game. Period.

 

*agreed

Yup, I love Mythic to death, but they took way too big of a jump.  they have only made 1 successful game.  DAOC.  They tried to make a space roman empire game.  Not working out too well.  Then they got their hands on WAR and figured they could instantly keep up with the big boys.

they don't seem to realize that they have been sitting aorund tweaking DAOC for nearly 10 years now.  They have not made anythign new since then.  They are trying to compete with Lineage 2, WoW, Guild Wars, Eve, and AoC.  They singed a deal witht he devil (EA) and got their quick boost in power.  It didn't help them though because they do not know all the modern MMO programing and design techniques.

Mythic is still making the smae balancing and new content release mistakes.  It's like none of them have even seen woW let alone played it.  If they did subscribe to WoW at least for 6 months they would know how to properly test and patch a game or release new content in baby steps and not in large leaps.

When I bought this game I was expecting Mythic to make some poor decisions because of lack of experience.  I was not expecting them to make nearly the same piss poor class balancing decisions they did in DAOC.  At least they have imporved a lot in creating UI.  They got a little bit better at releasing expansions and new content.

Originally posted by popinjay

 

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Originally posted by markoraos

 

And why should it hold a PvE player interested?

 

Now it's turbine's call. If they go the PvE route then WAR will die. I'm not sure they can grasp the concept of player-driven gaming.

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Why should it hold a PvE player's interest? Maybe because MYTHIC designed the endgame with a vast amount of PvE for starters. The final battle is a... PvE boss fight. Why should PvEers go "find their own game"? WAR has PLENTY of it in every phase, from startup to gear grinds to endgame. No one can deny this with any honesty because this is the way MYTHIC implemented this.

 

 

LOTD is unpopular not because of the PvE. It's unpopular because they implemented this stupid zone and it always ends up in Order inside the LOTD farming PvE mobs (unopposed), while Destro is locked out. So then Destro goes and captures zones unopposed. Then later, it's switched and Destro is inside farming PvE (alone) and Order is capturing zones unopposed. That's why it fails; there is no third realm to balance this expansion out. The PvE isn't killing this zone, it's the LACK of PLAYERS in those zones to PvP with. Half the people on servers logging on at any given time now are automatically locked out of their cities because the zone flipped due to no resistance while their faction was busy farming LOTD. MYTHIC set this up and implemented this.

 

 

WAR's greatest flaw is two factions and a broken PvE endgame. That's what it comes down to. This is not "Turbine's call". This is Bioware's mess to clean up, Turbine has nothing to do with Warhammer Online at all. They made LOTRO, lol. Bioware is running the show here and they aren't going to fix this frag. Mythic sealed their fate by putting this zone in with only two factions to run it. There is nothing Bioware can do to stop this game from falling down to under 100k by Christmas with AION, Fallen Earth and anything else possibly coming out. No one wants to play WAR anymore past T2, only fanbois are still playing it and it will go down to 5 or 6 total U.S. servers.

 

 

 

That's actually good news, because then there might actually be enough people in every zone so that they can fight WHILE in LOTD instead of the wasteland it is now. But then again, with that many people jammed into those places, this game could crash again (which Mythic hasn't fixed) so maybe its not such good news.

This same thing happened in DAOC when Darkness fall released.  One faction would grab it and just dissapear  inside.  Then the second strongest faction would run around uncontested and get control.  The weakest thrid faction would just get slaughtered and never get access.  On PErcival Server that was Hibernia who never got it. 

After about 1 or 2 months things started to regulate again and eventually things went back to normal in terms of PvP.  Everone experienced Darkness falls.  They merely went there to do some quick farming then left to go back to PvP. 

LotD will do the same thing.  After people get their glyphs form the PQs the only thing they will do is run a tomb or 2 then return to T4.  I already see this happening on my 2 servers.

Exactly why Blizzard is the only company that can make mmorpgs... and all the rest focus on hyping their BS game.