Trending Games | World of Warcraft | Dragon Age: Inquisition | EverQuest | WildStar

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,905,171 Users Online:0
Games:757  Posts:6,292,837
BioWare Mythic
MMORPG | Genre:Fantasy | Status:Cancelled  (est.rel 09/18/08)  | Pub:Electronic Arts
PVP:Yes | Distribution:Download,Retail | Retail Price:$39.99 | Pay Type:Subscription
System Req: PC Mac | ESRB:TOut of date info? Let us know!

WAR (Warhammer Online) Forum » WAR Open Beta Discussion » Order: It's own Worst Enemy? Poll Inside.

2 Pages 1 2 » Search
32 posts found
  Haelix

Novice Member

Joined: 8/13/08
Posts: 116

''Wisest is he who knows he does not know''

EQ DAoC AC EQ2 DDO V HL GW LoTRO AoC WoW WAR(beta)

 
OP  9/10/08 5:45:03 PM#1

    Order has a problem, it's not server balance thats an issue, nor is it being under or over powered, its a simple  matter of image.

  Theres a class imbalance issue on Order side. Alot of people pick classes based on not only how they want to play but also how the class looks, completely reasonable, but it presents an issue.

  Let's take a look at Order. One of the order tanks is the elf Swordmaster. All the elves look feminine, It seems male/female buttons are actually just the with or without clothes options, and they lack the evil, spiky bad guy look that makes their destruction counterparts an attractive choice. Most people don't like their tanks to wear dresses.

  The other Order tank is the dwarf Ironbreaker. Short, stubby, and not really most peoples idea of a heroic warrior figure, I actually kinda like the Ironbreaker but I can tell you from personal experience that theres a shortage of them ingame.

  And thats it for order tanks. Few people tend to play either the swordmaster or the ironbreaker, which leaves the order side relying on white lions and witch hunters, mostly witch hunters, as their frontline tanks. Problem is theres an a$$load of destruction tanks due to the coolness of the chosen and the black orc, both big, tough looking, armored, non dress wearing tanky tanks. And when the two forces collide the lack of any frontline defense always ends with order getting rolled by destruction.

  Time and time again I've watched this happen. I honestly don't think there's a power imbalance between order and destruction classes, it's just too few of the classes on order side get played. Almost every scenario is filled with Bright Wizards, Witch Hunters and Warrior Priests. A few of the other classes get played but it's always overbalanced in favor of these three.

  Now I wish I had a solution to this, but aside from them redoing some of the character models to buff up the looks of the Order tanks (prolly not going to happen), I'm not sure what else can be done to make the tanks a more attractive choice on order side. Personally I'm rerolling as a Swordmaster, and I already have an Ironbreaker, but will enough other people do the same to balance out Order? Who knows.

  Anyone else have any ideas or comments, possible solutions for this?  I've added a poll, pretty self-explanitory.

How important to you is a Classes look?

Very. I won't play a class I don't like the look of.
Somewhat. I tend to gravitate towards classes I like the look of.
Even Split. I balance looks and playstyle evenly.
Not so much. It's a secondary consideration after playstyle.
Not at all. I pick classes purely on playstyle, not looks.
What were we talking about again? I was mezmerized by the Wall'O'Text.
(login to vote)

  SGoodyer

Novice Member

Joined: 8/01/06
Posts: 199

9/10/08 6:00:53 PM#2

There is NO excuse for a game to have bad graphics in this day and age. Graphics does not equal gameplay/story so theres should be no hold back. It is also the reason why we have multiple settings, and no one has discovered it!

MMO's are at the end of the line and many more games too come... No company gives a flying fk about what the consumer wants anymore, they just set a bar and know people need something to waste time then make it feel like its a chore/job that has to be done, and they ONLY go by that logic... Wasting time, give no control to the user, recycle old and limited content instead of just starting from scratch and making an endless game that is not bound by BS lore.

Sad when people NEED an mmo instead of WANTING one, whole reason why they control it and make garbage and continuely recycle it.

  Haelix

Novice Member

Joined: 8/13/08
Posts: 116

''Wisest is he who knows he does not know''

EQ DAoC AC EQ2 DDO V HL GW LoTRO AoC WoW WAR(beta)

 
OP  9/10/08 6:08:41 PM#3
Originally posted by SGoodyer

There is NO excuse for a game to have bad graphics in this day and age. Graphics does not equal gameplay/story so theres should be no hold back. It is also the reason why we have multiple settings, and no one has discovered it!

MMO's are at the end of the line and many more games too come... No company gives a flying fk about what the consumer wants anymore, they just set a bar and know people need something to waste time then make it feel like its a chore/job that has to be done, and they ONLY go by that logic... Wasting time, give no control to the user, recycle old and limited content instead of just starting from scratch and making an endless game that is not bound by BS lore.

Sad when people NEED an mmo instead of WANTING one, whole reason why they control it and make garbage and continuely recycle it.


 

/confused.....    a lil off-topic are we?

  It seems the Wall'O'Text has struck madness in yet another poor soul. Let's all bow our heads and mourn the loss of another of our brethren.

  User Deleted
9/10/08 6:13:53 PM#4

I'm Shallow , the High elves looked like crap and the dwarves where to fat. So I chose the human dude with the hammer.

  DrSpanky

Novice Member

Joined: 5/26/07
Posts: 346

"my favorite thing is a Gyro"--Malibu Dan

9/10/08 6:17:44 PM#5

 Well, it could be because, yes, I am that bad of a pvper, but I was playing a chosen tank last night and played like 6 times in the first scenario...destruction lost all but one of those encounters.

On several of those occasions there was a dwarf tank. But for the most part, folks were other classes. Our sided did have more tanks per scenario, but we still stunk up the place pretty bad.

I did play a engineer in the first preview weekend, and just couldn't understand why my dwarf was running around in a toga. So your point does have some validity.

It's a proven historical fact that beer saved humankind.

  demented669

Novice Member

Joined: 1/02/05
Posts: 405

9/10/08 6:31:55 PM#6

just hope that in  a few months the order tanks not in the game will be added soon, i totalyy agree with what you say i played a few  RVR matches and only seen a very few order tanks

  mike470

General Correspondent

Joined: 2/11/08
Posts: 2429

"We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand" - Randy Pausch

9/10/08 6:35:10 PM#7

I see a lot of wizards and very few healers when I play on Order; I have lost a lot more battles than I have won.  Honestly I believe Destruction is stronger (mabye that is because I'm a qizard and take damage easier?).

I think this may end up being a problem in the long run.

__________________________________________________
In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08 - Rest In Peace; you will not be forgotten

  Daffid011

Old School

Joined: 1/03/04
Posts: 7652

9/10/08 6:35:24 PM#8

Normally looks are not a real factor in my choice of class/profession I play in an MMO.  There is usually some race/look that I find acceptable after I find the class that fits my playstyle.

Warhammer makes it a bit more difficult due to the limited amount of "looks" each race has for the classes.   With only 1 race per class and sometimes only not even the choice of either male/female.

 

Blizzard made a similar mistake in WoW with not giving the horde side a race that would appeal to those who want a pretty race to play.  Same principle here, just a different twist. 

 

 

  Douhk

Novice Member

Joined: 8/19/07
Posts: 1034

9/10/08 6:38:38 PM#9

Well, for myself, aesthetics do effect greatly which class I play, which is why I don't particularly get why more games aren't pushing "customization". It's one of the most desired features of an MMO, and almost every genre offers a huge amount of this excluding MMOs, which I find quite odd. One thing that I absolutely hate about this game is that I'm going to look exactly like someone else. It wouldn't be so bad if armor was different, but it appears everyone wears the same armor dependant upon their class.

I think, though, that with what you speak of, looks won't be too huge of an issue. I like and dislike some classes appearances equally on both order and destruction. Basically I hate how all the orcs and dwarves look, and I wouldn't hate the dwarves so much if they didn't have such annoying beards that reach their feet or the orcs if they weren't extremely ridiculous looking. I like some high elves, some dark elves, some empire, and some chaos. I absolutely hate the magus because of their flying disk, I hate the fact that I have to play a female to play a witch elf (though it's fitting), I hate all the ridiculous helmets that the high elves have (though it's choosable to show so I appreciate that), and I hate the bright wizard's ridiculous hair (which, sadly, isn't changeable). Alot of the classes interest me but I simply won't play them because of small things within their looks. It would do wonders if we could just not fly on a disk if we wanted, not have ridiculous hair, and etc. A little bit of being "different" would be nice.

Plus, although not really too much of an importance, I think it would make the playstyle in RvR a little more interesting. You'd have to be dependant on watching the player's playstyle rather then just giving them a milli-second glare at their armor.

EDIT: What I would absolutely love in a class-base game is armor not specific to class (in terms of aesthetics, not stats). A highly armored rogue, a lightly armored warrior, etc. The only game that I have played that offers this is CoX and CO coming up. I would really like that sort of diversity, but sadly we don't see much of it.

If only SW:TOR could be this epic...

  Narshe

Novice Member

Joined: 10/19/07
Posts: 562

Somehow I knew in hell there would be mushrooms.

9/10/08 7:47:17 PM#10

I do agree with the OP. Some friends of mine refuse to play high elves because of their look. I think most of the detail went into the destruction side.. It's not just tanks, but healers too. Compare a rune priest or archmage to a zealot.. the zealots have alot more detail and like everyone's said, they're just "cooler". I don't think there is a solution to make the dwarves or high elves more appealing to play without reworking the models, but as for Tanks, I think the first class they should consider adding is the Knight of the Burning Sun for the Empire that was cut, I think that will give order a nice overall boost. They were very appealing.

 

Waiting for Fallen Earth, World of Darkness, Old Republic, FFXIV

  brostyn

Novice Member

Joined: 1/29/04
Posts: 3120

Cynical? Me? Never.

9/10/08 7:54:10 PM#11

I really agree with you. I was thinking the same thing. I played Order in OB. Everyone seemed to be a shadow warrior, bright wizard or egineer. All classes that go down pretty darn fast. Destro seemed to be all shamans, and some form of tank. I saw more healers on Destro, too. Seeing a tank on Order was pretty rare, and seeing a form of healer was even more rare.

Its not only that, but even the advertising with WAR screams "Play Destruction or you are a wimp". I mean the slogan is "WAAAGH!".

  Axum

Novice Member

Joined: 7/17/06
Posts: 896

What if?

9/10/08 7:58:15 PM#12
Originally posted by Narshe

I do agree with the OP. Some friends of mine refuse to play high elves because of their look. I think most of the detail went into the destruction side.. It's not just tanks, but healers too. Compare a rune priest or archmage to a zealot.. the zealots have alot more detail and like everyone's said, they're just "cooler". I don't think there is a solution to make the dwarves or high elves more appealing to play without reworking the models, but as for Tanks, I think the first class they should consider adding is the Knight of the Burning Sun for the Empire that was cut, I think that will give order a nice overall boost. They were very appealing.

 

 

100% agree with you.

 

Before it got cut, i was dead set on being the Knight of the Burning Sun.

 

I mean, comeon, his "Commanding shouts" of sort would be the same basic mechanic of the chaos Chosen. Just throw in a few other little things and BAM, a tank order wants to play.

  vala2008

Novice Member

Joined: 12/15/07
Posts: 228

Warhammer Offline: Age of Registration

9/10/08 8:04:10 PM#13

You are right that some of us want to play tanks that are bulky looking and ready for battle....many of us was gonna put the Knight of Blazing sun boots on i think some of those that wanted to do that have picked chosen instead...it was a real bad mistake for them not to release the KBS....4 classes of chaos vs 3 tankless for order.

Even though the swordmaster looks fragile its not just appearance. i pretty much given up on my SW (lvl 8 now) and getting demolished but destruction yet i see their lvl 5 chosen running around with ALL of us nuking him and he's not got a dent. All of the chosen are at the top of the dps count at battle end but the SW is mid to bottom for dps (even 2-h-s that is meant to be their speciality). The IB make it to the top of dps also but they are rare to see and not many wanna play dwarves.

  vala2008

Novice Member

Joined: 12/15/07
Posts: 228

Warhammer Offline: Age of Registration

9/10/08 8:07:15 PM#14
Originally posted by BRYANBARTLEY
Originally posted by Narshe

I do agree with the OP. Some friends of mine refuse to play high elves because of their look. I think most of the detail went into the destruction side.. It's not just tanks, but healers too. Compare a rune priest or archmage to a zealot.. the zealots have alot more detail and like everyone's said, they're just "cooler". I don't think there is a solution to make the dwarves or high elves more appealing to play without reworking the models, but as for Tanks, I think the first class they should consider adding is the Knight of the Burning Sun for the Empire that was cut, I think that will give order a nice overall boost. They were very appealing.

 

 

100% agree with you.

 

Before it got cut, i was dead set on being the Knight of the Burning Sun.

 

I mean, comeon, his "Commanding shouts" of sort would be the same basic mechanic of the chaos Chosen. Just throw in a few other little things and BAM, a tank order wants to play.


 

yep they have the machanic there and also the modeling to a degree, all they have to do is add a few flame/fire AoE and sorted......but the whole game comes across as a lot of intest and coolness into destruction but minimal to order...even the pre-release vids emphasised this.

  pigfist

Novice Member

Joined: 10/27/05
Posts: 53

9/10/08 8:17:48 PM#15

    Many of the Order races turn me off. Mostly for the reasons you mention. Dwarves are very ugly... well they be that way in nearly all games, but they could have given them legs in this one. Anyway, as for the elves. I see nothing wrong with them other than having to wear the dress, mock, robe thing. I don't think they look feminine, feature wise. They look like a blend of regal native americans or semi-samurai. Hopefully with later armor setups they drop the robe for a cloak or cape and allow for some plate or chain armor to show.
        

   To sum it up, looks do matter when picking a class. Although, down the road when guilds are building rvr groups you will see people picking the class for what they do and not for what they look like. We will also likely see people and guilds switch to Order for the challenge, if things don't balance out.

  pb1285n

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/06
Posts: 506

9/10/08 8:24:02 PM#16

 I think it really depends on the group you are with. From 1-11 as order my teams won over 50% of the time. This is without tanks.

You don't need those tanks as much in PvP because people are intelligent enough to bypass them and go straight for the dps and healers.

  Haelix

Novice Member

Joined: 8/13/08
Posts: 116

''Wisest is he who knows he does not know''

EQ DAoC AC EQ2 DDO V HL GW LoTRO AoC WoW WAR(beta)

 
OP  9/10/08 11:11:36 PM#17

posted by Narshe

"I think the first class they should consider adding is the Knight of the Burning Sun for the Empire that was cut"

  I forgot about that, you know what, your completely right. That would definately help balance the Order tankage out. Prolly overbalance it towards too many tanks actually, considering it would be the newest addition and would prolly get swamped. But it would be better than it is now.

 When they talked about removing the 4 classes from launch due to balance issues did they mention at all when or if they were planning on adding them back in game? Were they planning on adding them back in as part of a patch or as part of a future expansion?  Hopefully it ends up being a patch. Mythic's always been good about getting out timely expansions but would still be a year or better before we saw one.

  vinzone

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/05
Posts: 254

“A lie told often enough becomes truth”

9/10/08 11:21:58 PM#18

I didnt read through all the comments so not sure if someone said something like im going to.

I usually try classes that i think look cool first and end up not liking them and end up playing something i didnt even consider playing with my first look over the classes. Right now in open beta I got a squig herder to rank 10 and actually enjoyed playing him even though when i first looked at the game i thought they looked dumb as hell =p.

And as for the elf swordmaster i was actually going through trying order classes that i thought were cool and i was looking through the classes saw that an elf in robes main role was tank and it was the swordmaster .... So i went and made an ironbreaker

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16806

9/10/08 11:25:32 PM#19
Originally posted by vala2008

You are right that some of us want to play tanks that are bulky looking and ready for battle....many of us was gonna put the Knight of Blazing sun boots on i think some of those that wanted to do that have picked chosen instead...it was a real bad mistake for them not to release the KBS....4 classes of chaos vs 3 tankless for order.

Even though the swordmaster looks fragile its not just appearance. i pretty much given up on my SW (lvl 8 now) and getting demolished but destruction yet i see their lvl 5 chosen running around with ALL of us nuking him and he's not got a dent. All of the chosen are at the top of the dps count at battle end but the SW is mid to bottom for dps (even 2-h-s that is meant to be their speciality). The IB make it to the top of dps also but they are rare to see and not many wanna play dwarves.

That's a balance issue, every single MMO released had them the first few months. Don't worry, they will Nerf around in the next month or so.

But they shouldn't have cut so many classes or at least they could have thrown in another tank from the RPG/Boardgames: The Templar. They are really tough looking with an impressive armour.

Anyways Im sure it will be fixed eventually.

  AlienShirt

Novice Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 623

9/10/08 11:29:57 PM#20

While I do agree some of the classes could use some improvement in the looks department I don't think the Ironbreaker (which is an excellent class) or the Swordmaster (it's nice to see an agile tank once ina while) are that bad looking.

2 Pages 1 2 » Search